Hello again, everyone!
As per usual, this post will be an end-of-submission-phase feedback post and a
roughly 24-hour warning for the current submission phase, in order to give time to respond to the feedback in question. C:
Very general notice to everyone:
Please consider whether your Ability might be usable in the future and consider giving it an open-ended name rather than something super specific to one Pokémon! Abilities can and should have some flavor in general, and it's okay if you're more specific than the effect calls for
(that's a key part of the creativity of finding the next potential candidate!), but an Ability that's
so specific to the one Pokémon that
nothing else could ever use it for flavor reasons alone is usually just bothersome to future submitters and can be unintuitive, so think carefully about whether the name you choose is appropriate!
As a general rule when naming Abilities, it might help to name it for
the quality of the Pokémon that you think is related to the effect,
not for the Pokémon itself. In addition,
the more generally useful the Ability's effect, the more open its name should be to interpretation!
This has not always been common knowledge, and we have not always been great at it throughout the mod's history - there are even a handful Abilities I made myself whose names I have regretted later on because of how limiting they were to future submitters!
The most important thing is to be better about it going forward, not to use existing names as precedent and say "this must be okay if that other one was."
We can also look into renaming custom Abilities that are proving problematic in this way in the future! But be aware that renaming Abilities is sort of an inconvenient chain of events that affects a lot of places, and it's even caused outright bugs before, so it's something to avoid and we should try as hard as possible to get around the necessity of it.
Also, always consider having as few movepool additions as possible! We don't have hard rules on these but if you have even five or six you're probably doing something wrong
Also, an update on
Decidueye:
I got permission to disallow Taunt on all subs, so I am here to disallow Taunt on all subs.
Taunt has very dangerous synergy with Spirit Shackle, and with Taunt added, Decidueye would be the first and only Pokémon to have the combination of Taunt, spammable offensive trapping, reliable recovery and setup; it already has an amazing movepool, we feel this sounds unhealthy and like bad design to allow.
If your Decidueye has Taunt, it will not be vetoed just for that, but Taunt will not be added to Decidueye's movepool if it wins. C:
Thank you for understanding!

Hi! Okay, so first of all, I really like this one conceptually and I want to express my support of it before I recommend any changes O:
I think there are a ton of cool applications for an Ability like this and the execution here is actually so cool!! That said, ink and I were talking about it and we did have a small concern on this one!
So, Decidueye
can definitely still go convincingly physical with an Ability like this
(Poltergeist just barely outdamages Shadow Ball with these stats, though Shadow Ball is obviously more reliable and spammable, and it has both SD and Plot!); with that in mind, we definitely should be prepared for the way full-physical sets might make use of the Ability as well.
Personally, I actually
really like the direction you've taken the stats for this concept - I think pushing it to be specially biased for the most part and making the Ability a way to punish obvious switch-ins and grab an unusual form of momentum from the escape is really cool, and incentivizing mixed options as a form of utility sounds fun as
heck! also people who are not cowards will run Low Sweep on this for maybe the coolest compression and coverage move in the game
The only real reservations we have are with
Spirit Shackle, which comes with trapping and -1 Defense at the same time
(which is a dangerous combination that negates the usual response to Fire Lash-esque moves while amplifying their power significantly), and to a lesser extent Poltergeist, which is just Decidueye's strongest physical move by far and (though it's probably not broken on this!) likely interferes with your goal of mixed and specially-biased sets as opposed to full-physical utility and wallbreaking.
We noticed that you didn't mention either of these in your post and that they probably weren't the moves you wanted to enable, so that feels like something it might be worthwhile to avoid, right?
Both to avoid Spirit Shackle and Poltergeist as potential problem and to help lean into your creative use of Decidueye as a mixed utility cleaner, I would
personally enthusiastically recommend but not require making the Ability activate from
contact moves rather than physical moves! I just think that encompasses all of its coolest utility options (U-turn as intended, Low Kick, Knock... Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch also sounds
cool in VGC and I would totally run it) while avoiding other potential problems, and that would be my personal favorite route for you to take!
I think this is actually one of my favorite subs already and maybe the best this Ability concept has been executed (and I don't think you're the only one who's tried!), so I'm actually really excited about it now that I've given it some thought!! but that's just my personal take on one change that could be beneficial to the way it plays C:
If you can, please also consider renaming the Ability so that Pokémon other than Decidueye can conceivably use it in the future!
This stands out as a particularly widely applicable effect and it doesn't really have anything to do with the name you've given it, so it would be nice if it were something more general.
It's more than okay if it's keyed towards a specific type or class of Pokémon as long as that's not entirely specific to Decidueye's flavor, though!

Hi! I am afraid I have to veto this one because Primarina learns
Perish Song and I think that sounds problematic, sorry;;

This one I have to veto both for brokenness
see the recent Mega Trevenant nerf and redundancy
see the, uh... just see Mega Trevenant really - and Gourgeist, for that matter, which has the equivalent gimmick of Prankster recovery but just not for draining moves. We do not need a third Grass/Ghost with the same gimmick and I do not trust that this would be balanced with it.

As noted by the thread rules, we can veto subs for just being an Ability but better or just being two Abilities that already exist in one. I will be invoking that here because I do not believe there is a compelling reason to allow this and I am against it. I also do not think that the Ability being unaffected by the items Damp Rock and Terrain Extender is a valid or relevant way to "keep it in check" or negate that argument; it would be better not to allow it at all.
Your Incineroar is fine I think!
May I recommend adding Focus Energy and/or Storm Throw? Not for balance reasons I just think it sounds cool - and it has Flame Charge for reliable Speed boosting anyway, so something more consistent than true RNG crits is probably necessary
but yes I will be vetoing both Decidueye and Primarina here, sorry;;



You already know this is not allowed because I already objected to it, but you didn't acknowledge that here and said I should just deal with it in the veto post, so:
- Announcement aside, these posts are already banned from all submissions, as can be seen in the thread OP. Please check the rules before submitting!
- Making a group of submissions like this that only makes
any sense if all three of them are together is never a good idea, because even if one of them could get anywhere near winning
which it won't because these are terrible anyway and I have no doubt you know that, but suspend your disbelief for a moment, there is no way in absolute heck that all three of them will. There has only been one clean sweep in the mod's history, and it wasn't for a forced gimmick like this; in fact, I don't think a deliberately coordinated pair of subs has ever won even once.
Honestly, please don't bother posting here if you're not going to participate in good faith. This is not the place for you to make bad jokes just to farm reaction points.

Really sorry, but I'm gonna veto this one for being uncompetitive as an effect - allowing the Pokémon to pass Substitutes to its allies, even at the cost of its own HP, is
super dangerous and probably more so than you realize. This makes it impossible to punish Decidueye's switches and allows its allies free turns of status immunity and safe setup for absolutely no cost, as well as preventing revenging if they just manage an efficient KO before it fades. Substitute is an amazing move against stall as it is, and doing it passively at all (let alone sharing it with teammates instead of limiting it to one Pokémon) is not something we can safely allow.

I don't like offensive Yawn, personally.
In a singles context
which I know you care about more - I'm not going to put emphasis on VGC because you were open about not liking that as a reason, but suffice it to say this is obviously much more problematic there, the counterplay to Yawn is to switch out immediately on the turn when a Pokémon should be put to sleep; the problem here is that you can spam Yawn indefinitely, with relatively high-power moves of different types (including a 90 BP STAB), while still doing damage, which hurts your opponent a lot more than uselessly spamming the status move Yawn. Primarina also has Flip Turn to get the momentum advantage whenever it decides its opponent is more likely to pivot out and can actually make progress.
Accordingly, I think this effect sounds uncompetitive and will be vetoing it. I think it would be a bad design choice to allow this.
This is fine but please consider toning down the movepool additions it does not need that many

See above for Taunt! That will not be allowed.
Meanwhile, Decidueye already has Tailwind, so you don't need to add that!
Uh, that issue aside, this sounds like a really strong sub and I'm kind of uncomfortable with it? Spirit Shackle is already a
great move, but adding Leech Seed to its effect might be pretty broken, actually; the counterplay to Leech Seed and the counterplay to Spirit Shackle overlap very little and it's certainly by design that Decidueye doesn't even have the move in canon. While I don't think adding Leech Seed to its movepool will break it, I'm very much less comfortable compressing them like this on a Pokémon with as excellent a movepool for stallbreaking as Decidueye's.
Personally I would
lean towards outright vetoing this if changes are not made, but I will leave it to the discretion of the council member who compiles Decidueye if they think it's fine as-is and just
strongly encourage reconsidering the Ability.

Aaa, really sorry to disappoint you, but uh-- someone else actually shared this same idea in the Discord, and the reason they didn't beat you to putting it in the thread was because I had already vetoed it.
I am not personally comfortable allowing this; Ghost is a strong as heck attacking type, and 143 BP Poltergeist is way too much on a Pokémon with this much Speed and SD. Really, all of Decidueye's best moves are non-contact already
(and non-contact moves are inherently less punishable than contact moves in general - that's why there's no non-contact Tough Claws clone as it is and why there's no "Long Reach but backwards!" making contact is strictly a downside in itself, so being non-contact is a reward in itself, and I'm sure even a canon Tough Claws-in-reverse would have a smaller boost if one ever existed at all, and the fact that this Ability enables both physical and special sets with both SD and NP and with several of the most spammable moves in the game makes me
really uncomfortable.
I am not really a fan of cloning Tough Claws for non-contact moves in general, so I wouldn't really recommend just nerfing the stats and calling it good - I would prefer if you went with a different Ability altogether instead, myself - but it's up to you how to handle this exactly! FWIW, if you prefer to redistribute its stats, I think with Decidueye's current movepool that you have a bit more leeway on the special side than the physical side, if you're not sure where to dump stats and feel you must raise an attacking stat.

Stakeout is a
crazy-strong Ability traditionally balanced by being on Pokémon that are, uh, bad - I appreciate the synergy with Spirit Shackle and think that's a cool effect, but I'm afraid there's just no way I can see it being balanced on a Pokémon with Decidueye's movepool overall or this much Speed. ;-;
There are some people I know were considering doing Analytic already (
EeveeGirl1380 and
ARandomPerson maaay or may not have been collaborating on this?), and I am not sure if they moved on from the idea, so I hesitate to suggest this
(if they do get around to their sub later, I will have to accept that over yours because I know they got to it first), but in case they decided to drop the idea and went with something else, I should point out that
Analytic is a very similar Ability for your purposes
including Spirit Shackle synergy while being quite a lot milder and less likely to be broken. If you're looking for a quick fix to your sub, you could consider just replacing Stakeout with that, though again I would have to prioritize their sub if they eventually finish it.
In either case, I'm definitely going to have to veto this as it is, sorry;;;
It's up to you what you want to do with it from here, though!
also, Pursuit is not boosted by Stakeout in any situation at all, just to let you know - it is not an effective move to combine with this Ability!
(There is absolutely nothing wrong with this whatsoever, so really sorry if my pinging made you nervous!! This is not a veto or even really a criticism, just a super minor note!)
But uh, it might be worth noting that we've had a similar Ability in the form of
Mega Zebstrika's
Vajra, that changes Dark-type moves to Electric moves and
raises their power by 20% (just like an -ate, not like Liquid Voice).
It's totally your choice, but I thought I should let you know that a similar Ability existed and that you would be able to have the same 20% boost if you wanted/without raising any eyebrows!
I don't think it would break your sub at all
(you wouldn't have to change any stats to accommodate for it or anything as far as I can tell!), so it's completely up to you and I am just letting you know the option is there. C:

Hi! Sorry, but we discussed this on the Discord and concluded that it would have problematic implications and would likely be uncompetitive in all formats, so I am vetoing this. This Ability is problematic because it invalidates a ton of important strategies, like residual effects and setup, while enabling hazards to a dangerous extent; with one player's team being built around taking advantage of this and the other presumably only prepared for the meta as a whole, this can create extremely lopsided and unfair battles in Incineroar's favor and damages the variety of team styles that would be viable in the meta, so we can't allow it.
I really like the flavor though;;; I love the Rumble games

Caaan I recommend dropping Leech Seed?
(see my opinion of ShinGen and Jake88's Decidueye from earlier)
Not sure if it would be strictly broken, but it feels like a bad thing to enable with an Ability this consistent all the same, since even basic counterplay like pivoting is not applicable here.
That aside, I think this overlaps a bit much with
jazzmat's sub in function
(actually jazzmat if you would be willing to reevaluate Leech Seed as well that might be a good idea since I feel your sub is one of the stronger stallbreakers here either way), so I feel like I should draw your attention to each other and make sure you're both okay with this/suggest combining your efforts or recommend that one of you withdraw if you don't want to compete directly. I feel like it would be wrong to include both of these in the vote separately, myself, but I will leave that up to you I think?
Edit after talking it over with jazzmat: yeah, we were hoping you would be okay just excluding your Decidueye for overlap with theirs if that's okay with you;;
(I will ping you about this on Discord as well to be sure you can see it in case you've already read this!)

Hi! I know we talked about this a bit yesterday on the Discord and it's possible you might not have had a chance to edit your post yet, but it's equally possible that I didn't communicate my stance well enough, so just to be clear either way: I'm personally not really comfortable allowing your Primarina as it is and I think it would be better to exclude it? The main thing that has me concerned is that
Dancer only has one application that could ever be detrimental to an opponent, and that application is forcing Pokémon to copy Lunar Dance.
While this is surely irrelevant in singles since the Pokémon can just switch out if a Cresselia or Smeargle comes in, and Mega Primarina can simply be banned separately in VGC, I feel this is still an
unsound design choice and that it would be optically bad and unrealistic to allow it. If nothing else: I'm sure the first thing anyone does when they try to use Primarina would be to look up what undesirable moves they could force the opponent to copy, and Lunar Dance is the only apparent answer to that at all; this is something I'm really against and I don't like how it would reflect on the mod even if it isn't actually effective as a strategy.
For all other purposes, even if it's less flavorfully unique, the Ability would be the same or better if it just suppressed Abilities in the same way as Gastro Acid or Core Enforcer; I would really strongly advise you to go with that instead!

This is basically the same thing as ViZar's Decidueye, so a) I would recommend that you collaborate or just vote for ViZar instead of making your own, but b) see above where I also vetoed that anyway; I will not be allowing this either way.

Double-check your math - you have 10 more points to use here!

I am not comfortable with offensive sleep that's this spammable.
There is very good reason why even defensive contact-based Abilities
(which are much more in the opponent's control and therefore more balanced, not less so) stay the heck away from sleep outside of Effect Spore, which is only a third as reliable as the others and is primarily exclusive to Pokémon with much better ways to inflict sleep.
Even the Ability that inflicts poison
the weakest status! offensively
note that only the weakest status has this!, Poison Touch, requires the user to use contact moves which are therefore more punishable, and the same important defensive types that resist many contact moves are immune to poison.
Sound-based moves are much easier to use and much harder to punish, and sleep is by far the least healthy status to be able to inflict in this way, so this is, like, way problematic all around.
This also has illegal minmaxing
(and very unnecessarily so! Primarina of all things does not need the help), so please review the submission rules before you post again!

Hi! Sorry, I wasn't totally sure how to handle this one on account of the fact that we've had some other accurate sleep Megas in the past (Orbeetle and Parasect), so I didn't have an answer right when you brought it up and I'm sorry for not responding when you first brought it up in the Pet Mods #submission-feedback.
That said, I think in this case, I should still veto this sub - while it's not the only accurate sleep Mega we have, I think accurate Grass Whistle is a lot more problematic on Decidueye because it comes in conjunction with Spirit Shackle, which allows Decidueye to exploit sleep clause easily and take full advantage of every sleep turn reliably. Between that, strong setup, recovery and a
lot more bulk than Parasect in particular, I don't think this is something we can safely allow and I will have to ask you to remove Grass Whistle.
In any case, I'm relieved that you had a backup plan in mind and that I know you can adapt to this! The non-Grass Whistle version you presented alongside this one looked fine to me C:

As discussed a bit earlier with
LordThemberchaud's Decidueye, I think Substitute on entry has the potential to be very problematic considering the move's incredibly wide applications, even accounting for its HP cost.
Substitute (alongside Protect) is kind of one of the go-to moves I point out whenever someone has a "use the first moveslot on entry" idea, because I think using it automatically and without taking a turn is basically always uncompetitive no matter the user; this is especially egregious on a Mega, which can satisfy the "on entry" condition on the same turn it selects another move (like taking pre-Mega Intimidate to force a switch, Mega Evolving to use Substitute and Swords Dance in the same turn, then using Flame Charge once, then taking advantage of its STABs' wide two-move coverage to sweep, to give one example of some very safe and very dangerous setup).
Even though it admittedly has interesting implications on a Pokémon that's particularly hazard-weak and doesn't have recovery, I just think it's a very risky thing to allow and I'm pretty much universally against it as a concept, so I'm gonna have to veto this one. x:
Hi and nice to meet you! I'm glad you could make your first subs!
First, to answer your question, we have a format on
Dragon Heaven where you can play the mod with full teambuilder support! The main one for 6v6 singles is just called Megas for All, which you can find towards the middle of the second column in the formats list, "Smogon Pet Mods." There are also a couple of side formats under "Pet Mod Bonus Formats" and "Randomized Metas" in the third column! (The link to DH is also in the first post if you ever need to find it again!)
That said, there are a couple of things that are problematic about your

Primarina and

Incineroar subs, so I will explain those but I'm afraid they're going to be vetoed as they are;;
Please don't be discouraged and know that you can learn from this
and also that you can edit them to make changes after reading this! you still have 24 hours before voting opens! Most people's first subs don't go over well, haha - that's just part of the process!
But uh, to go into details--

The first (minor) thing to note on this one is just that the Ability seems to do two things that are pretty unrelated, which is usually something to avoid! I would support either adding a special effect to sound-based moves (like your infatuation idea) or changing their type (like Liquid Voice, or in your case cloning Liquid Voice for the Fairy type), but I would not recommend doing both at once because it's not really in line with how official Abilities usually work; trying to stick with one premise and see it through all the way is generally better than making a layered or two-in-one Ability like this.
That said, in general,
infatuation is usually something to stay away from in general! Adding a 50% fail rate to all moves is heavily luck-based in a way that most people dislike, and while Attract and Cute Charm are usually just kind of bad, that's more because gender reliance is a really silly mechanic that works against them in serious competitive play
I will say I respect you for doing away with that part, haha and the effect itself is not to be underestimated. An Ability like this would be very frustrating to face and difficult to deal with, so it's the kind of thing we try to avoid in general; this is especially true since, like the Yawn-based Primarina
shinxthe17! submitted earlier, the main form of counterplay would be to switch out to try to clear the effect, but in this case you can just keep using the move offensively and never give them the chance to switch safely (particularly since even Fairy-resistant Pokémon suffer its effects).
With all of that in mind, Primarina as it is will definitely be vetoed, I'm afraid;;
One obvious possibility would just be to give it a Fairy-type version of Liquid Voice, but I think I should point out that Primarina already has both the best single-target Fairy move (Moonblast, which would still be better than Hyper Voice in singles) and the best spread Fairy-type move (Dazzling Gleam, which is
very close to as good as Hyper Voice in doubles), so it might not get all too much of a benefit from it! It might be good to look into other Ability ideas altogether, but I will leave that up to you. C:
Next up,
Incineroar has a
very dangerous effect in being able to attack opponents before they switch out, and this is something that is inherently strong and can be metagame-defining if allowed.
There's only a single move that can have this effect in canon, the Dark-type Pursuit, and that means only specific types are vulnerable to it (Ghost and Psychic are the only Pokémon that can be hit super effectively by the move at all) and the few viable Pokémon of those types are balanced with the move in mind; it's still an incredibly strong effect that isn't to be underestimated, and it has wide applications and demands respect on all of its users to this day.
Personally, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to allow the effect of Pursuit on moves of any type but Dark at all, since at a certain point it just becomes a dangerous trapping effect that can guarantee Incineroar safely revenges Pokémon it shouldn't.
- That said, your other idea of raising Speed on a KO could still have some very cool implications, especially on a Pokémon like Incineroar that has good type coverage and strong setup!
A safer option that I would definitely be willing to allow is simply raising Speed when it KOs any Pokémon, like the canon Moxie and Beast Boost do for other stats. In this case, you might add the move Pursuit by itself, which is one possible set option that could synergize with "Speed Moxie" (by making it easier to activate reliably when you come in on a weakened opponent) and bring it close to your original idea in a different way.
- Alternatively, if you want to keep the Pursuit effect, you could maybe just apply this Ability as you have it to Incineroar's Dark-type moves (with or without the Speed constraint - your choice!), since Knock Off could have some strong utility with the effect and it can still be a lot more effective than base Pursuit since you get the move's full power whether your opponent has attempted to switch or not.
See especially Slowbro and Slowking, two Pokémon that are hard to Pursuit trap because they create 50/50s by slow pivoting with Teleport - an Incineroar that has your Ability even just on Dark-type moves can safely dispatch these whether they use Teleport or hard switch, removing the guessing game!
This is a way to stay close to your original idea and that still has clear and significant advantages over just giving Pursuit to Incineroar as a movepool addition, without having the unhealthy impact of Pursuit on all types of moves.
(Or, again, you could always take a different route altogether if you prefer - those are just possible suggestions that stay close to the workable parts of your idea!)
That said!!
Although Tinted Lens is always a scary Ability to work with, I think your

Decidueye should be okay!
I appreciate that you kept its Speed on the low side compared to other offensive Pokémon - this is almost always a good way to keep an otherwise-dangerous idea in check! It also helps that Decidueye's Ghost-type moves (notably including both its most powerful physical move, Poltergeist, and its other best physical STAB, Spirit Shackle) are resisted by some of the fewest Pokémon of all moves, so opponents would already be looking for other ways to deal with it and Decidueye is balanced around the effect in other ways.
On the other hand, it has neat applications when it comes to moves like Decidueye's U-turn, which is widely resisted but would make for more useful chip if it could get around that, as well as its strongest special move, Leaf Storm, which is an interesting move that's held back by a poor attacking type. Both of these are cool options that Tinted Lens makes more reliable without being problematic in any way, so it works well!
I think you did a good job with this one! C:

Aaand I think that's all!
Submissions will close and voting should begin in 24 hours or a bit later, and the council will make a compilation of all of the legal entries then! If you've gotten feedback here that you want to address, it would be best to do that as soon as possible with that in mind. C:
(As usual, though: no worries if you can't quite make it by then! If you decide to make changes based on this, then as long as you can do that before voting closes
just leave enough time for people to vote for you! and please make sure to check which council member made the compilation post for that Pokémon and get in touch with them, such as by pinging them or DMing them here or on Discord, we'll be happy to edit the compilation to include any amendments you made!)