Little Cup Counter that Pokemon NOMINATIONS [Team 2, Pokemon 2] | Re-hosted

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
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LC Counter that Pokémon - Mk II

--- Created by Electrolyte | Hosted by apt-get | approved by blarajan ---


Welcome everyone to the new edition of the Counter that Pokemon project! The OU forum has been running this kind of project for a while now- and I thought it would be a great idea to bring it into LC and see what we can do with it. Don't know what Counter that Pokemon is? Read on!

Q: What are we going to do?
A:
The idea is to build two teams that, while not necessarily very good in general, are designed to counter each other to the best of their possibilities. We will choose the pokes that will compose the two teams in an alterned fashion: if "1" represents a pick for the Team 1, and "2" a pick for the Team 2, the picks will look like this: 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 2 - 1, so except from the first and the last choice, each team will select two pokes consecutively, attempting to neuter the portion of the other team already known, pose new threats for the opponents, and avoid creating excessive weaknesses that could be easily exploited later. The project will end with a battle between the two teams, to "determine" which team countered "better" the opponent.

Q: How does the picking process work?
A:
There are two phases when picking a pokemon for any of the two teams, a discussion phase and a voting phase. In the first phase you propose new sets, give feedback on others' proposals, and generally discuss what direction we should follow for the team that's picking currently. The second phase is a voting one, where everyone can express his/hers preference for the set he/she thinks is best suited for the team. We will implement private voting as an experiment this time, to see if the bandwagoning issues we experienced the last time are diminished. The discussion phase will last roughtly 48-72 hours for each pokemon we're going to pick, to allow everone to propose a set and comment on the already listed ones; the voting will be faster, with a duration of 24-48 hours (I'll adjust the durations according to partecipation / relevance of discussion / other factors).

Q: Why should we bother doing this project if the teams aren't even going to be guaranteedly solid outside of this project?
A:
My intent by starting this project is to start a project where users can discuss checking and countering major threats on the metagame. LC forms the perfect grounds for this sort of project, because all of the major threats check and balance each other, so we're probably going to see all three M's and some kind of weather war in here. We might also see some unorthodox yet potentially useful sets. There are many possibilities for us to explore, and therefore such a project is a worthy investment of time.

Rules:
  1. One set per person. A valid set should include all of the following elements: sprite / image, name of the pokemon, item, ability, nature, EVs, IVs (you can omit this in case they're obvious), moveset, and a description about why your suggestion fits the current team (please avoid one-line submissions). Lack of any of those elements can result into your set not being listed for voting.
  2. No slashes in movesets.
  3. To vote, just PM your preference to apt-get; more detailed instructions will be given at the beginning of the voting phase.
  4. Voting for your own set is allowed. However please keep in mind that there's nothing to win here, so if I see everyone just voting consistently for himself/herself, I'll modify this rule and disallow self voting.
  5. The standard LC banlist applies, along with common clauses.
  6. Standard Smogon rules obviously apply here. Please be polite while discussing, avoid flaming, trolling or other disruptive posting habits.
If you need any clarification on rules, or the general CtP process, feel free to PM/VM me.

Current state of the project: Nomination [Team 2, Pokemon 2]

The two users in the end of this project with the most amount of voted nominations will duke it out in a best-of-3 to see which team is truly better!
Miscellaneaous / CtP FAQ

How does a good submission look like?
This project has mainly been an OU one in the past, and therefore, many good post examples are from OU. There are many examples of awesome submissions, with different presentation, reasoning, and whatever else. Just lurk a bit the old CtP threads (Mk II and Mk III) to have a rough idea and you should be fine. To translate this into LC, basically, just make well supported statements that have solid logic and try not to base your arguments too much on one thing- rather, pull everything- usage, damage calculations, etc into your arguments.
My submission stops cold all the pokes of the opposing team! It's perfect! Maybe. Or maybe it's just overspecialized for the current lineup of the enemy team, and opens much worse scenarios in case the enemy exploits your careless picking. We've seen quite a bit of those proposals in the past, including Signal Beam Cresselia just to counter a Meloetta (no offense intended, but that was just a terrible submission). Those kind of entries are just bad, so please make sure to think a bit more before postng if your idea resembles that. CrackinSkulls gave us awesome guidelines in this perspective, so I'm quoting his post here:
CrackinSkulls It is a teambuilding game where pokemon are suggested for there respective team. At the end of the day these two teams will battle each other. We want to win this battle. So how do we ensure that... we make each set on our team counter our opponents and be as uncounterable as possible so our opponents are hard pressed to counter it with there next addition. Essentially we want to beat our opponent by countering them and preventing them from countering us. I feel that currently people are not understanding this. In the above Dusclops example, do we actually want to build a team around Dusclops!? This gives the opponent hundreds of options to choose from, Tyranitar which is a HUGE advantage because of sand, hell even a Bisharp becomes possible and very tough to counter. In short when you guys start a team do you honestly go "hmm lets make a team around chansey".
You guys are all intelligent people, use your intelligence, wit and cunning to accomplish this task by trapping your opponent just as you would in a match and using your match honed prediction to ensnare your opponent in a sticky web of cunning. Predict their choices and act upon them, play mind games, this game is supposed to bring out the best of our battle honed minds. If we are resorting to using Dusclops and Cresselia our opponent has us on the back foot in the first round from where they can dominate, bully and force into submission. So cunning OU players out there use your match skills to outpredict, outplay and beat the opponent. To quote Poppy in the Ubers thread " Pick discreetly, with the intention to bait, befoul, bludgeon, barf upon, and generally bring waste to the opposition."

If you guys are struggling to understand the concept have a look at the ubers thread or the previous OU one . Anyway i hope i could help you guys understand the game and keep this thread a little cleaner. Don't post nonsense posts keep them simple, clean and easy to follow. Good luck with the game.

So the discussion phase is only about posting sets? Please let me put emphasis on this: NO!!! The most important part of the discussion phase is, well, discussion and feedback on others' sets. The old threads were full of awesome posts, people discussed, changed their sets according to feedback, and it was just a nice, friendly and inspiring environment. This is what we aim to have, and hopefully with your help we'll obtain something great like that. Again, those are OU examples. The LC forum has yet to make its own mark of good posts.
You talked about teams a million of times till now. Do we need to split ourselves in two teams? Nope. You're free to contribute to the discussion while picking pokes for Team 1, 2, or both, as you please. I encourage contributing actively for both teams, since it makes the project more fun and avoid the risks of a team running out of proposals / submissions / discussion.
IMPORTANT! Team 2 has a HUGE advantage! Picking last is gamebreaking! This concern is perfectly justified. It is very hard for team 1 to cover absolutely every threat while teambuilding, especially not since team 2 can constantly apply pressure by counterpicking, and team 2 can exploit this difficulty and obtain an advantage by counerpicking with their last pokemon. Because of this, team 1 has to be extremely careful when teambuilding, and it should try to patch up its holes as solidly as possible while it builds because decisions can not be taken back.
TEAM 1:

Murkrow @ Life Orb
Trait: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]

TEAM 2:

Archen @ Eviolite
Trait: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- U-turn

Magnemite @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SAtk / 28 SDef / 240 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]
 
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I think i'll go with an obvious pick right now so here we have LO MixKrow



Murkrow @ Life Orb
Trait: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 188 Spd / 240 Atk / 80 SAtk
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Heat Wave
- Sucker Punch / Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Grass]

We all know how this set works, use Brave Bird on something, and if there is a chinchou tirtouga etc., 2HKO it with HP Grass, and if there is a Steel-type, go for Heat Wave and 2HKO/OHKO the switchin, otherwise, Brave Bird everything and make them regret that they lived. This is easily one of the hardest pokemon to counter in the meta. Anyway there is one thing that we can change though. That is the choice of Dark Pulse vs Sucker Punch. Dark Pulse is the more risky route, as it stops the opposing team to try to counter it with Eviolite Archen. On the other hand, Sucker Punch can check a threat that is hard to check for our team, making it more of a safe option.


Levitate | Eviolite | Timid
240 SpA / 240 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting
- Will-O-Wisp / Substitute​

There's nothing to counter, may as well go for the most common Pokemon in the metagame.
I don't think this is a optimal thing to do, as Misdreavus has a lot more abilit to be countered, especially when not running a move like Tbolt or anything along those lines. If i could make a suggestion to your set, maybe Destiny Bond/Taunt can work, as it makes Missy much harder to counter without sacrificing their own mon, but that's just what I think
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Time for voting!
(Disclaimer: blarajan's set was very similar to The Unlucky One's so only The Unlucky One's set will be vote-able)

iss's Eviolite Misdreavus
The Unlucky One's LO Murkrow
Electrolyte's Eviolite Mienfoo
Dcae's Eviolite Scraggy
cxinlee's Mold Breaker Drilbur
Sarkynin's LO Mienfoo
Superpowerdude's Riolu

TO VOTE:
PM me with the following format:
Subject: LC CTP (Pokemon) (User that submitted that Pokemon)
Body: LC CTP Vote (Pokemon) (User that submitted that Pokemon)


RULES:
~You MAY vote for yourself, but keep in mind, there is nothing to win here- we're just trying to learn something. If I see too much self-voting, I will take away this privilege.
~ONLY VOTE FOR ONE SET.
~You MAY NOT change your vote.

Let's get to it! Tiebreakers will be broken by me.
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Alright, although the amount of voters for this were quite low (hopefully more people vote in the future.) I'm going to end this session. Here are the votes:




Tally:
4 Votes for LO Murkrow
2 Votes for Evio Missy

So, Team 1 Pokemon 1's first Pokemon will be The Unlucky One's LO Murkrow!

Here's the set:


Murkrow @ Life Orb
Trait: Insomnia
Level: 5
EVs: 240 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]

(no slashes please)

Now, we're going to nominate Pokemon for Team 2, Pokemon 1. Remember to keep future planning, offensive pressure, countering, and counterpicking in mind when you submit Pokemon. Good luck everybody!
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus

Defeatist | Eviolite | Adamant
236 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SpD
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- U-turn​

Countering MixKrow is really annoying, and with HP Grass Archen is the only real counter. This thing can switch into anything with ease, get a free Stealth Rock, and U-turn for some nice momentum. Stone Edge is so that Murkrow doesn't tickle you to death. It also functions as a nice counter to Drifloon and Taillow, preventing Team 1 from running a double Flying core (pretty common).
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
is a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
THE WINNER OF THIS WEEK'S VOTE:

iss's Archen



(axis voted for iss)

Here's the set:


Archen @ Eviolite
Trait: Defeatist
Level: 5
EVs: 236 HP / 100 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- U-turn


Now it's time for Team 2 Pokemon 2 Nominations! I'm going to be gone until the 29th, so you guys can take your time and think. Good luck!
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus

Trace | Eviolite | Calm
236 HP / 196 Def / 76 SpD
- Tri Attack
- Thunder Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Recover​

So, without a new threat to counter, we might as well go for one of the most general purpose checks in the current metagame: Porygon. Not only does it provide us with a decent check to Murkrow, it also gives us an insurance policy against Shell Smashers, Ghost-types, and anything out of the ordinary pretty much. Pretty much nothing can break through it except for Fighting-types (which obviously can be dealt with in other ways) and LO Murkrow, which we obviously have covered. Definitely one of the best Pokemon in the current metagame, and as long as we add in a decent Fighting-type check or two down the road (probably something like standard Misdreavus + SubRoost Murkrow) we'll have a solid defensive core that can handle anything, especially when combined with Archen.
 

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Reserving Clamperl

Clamperl @ DeepSeaTooth
Trait: Rattled
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 248 SAtk / 180 Spd
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Why not go for the lil' clamp? After a smash, it basically destroys teams, and with substitute, you can prevent foo from using fake out on you or Murkrow from sucker punching you. Yay!
You really don't need many coverage moves anyway since surf+icebeam 2HKOes everything in the tier, including chinchou and ferroseed, so even if team 1 wants to pack them it will not be a good counter except if they take like scald+discharge chinchou.
 
Reserving scarf magnemite


Magnemite@ Choice Scarf
Modest Nature
Evs: 240 SpA/240 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-Volt switch
-Flash Cannon
-Hidden Power Ground


Magnemite is a really good teammate for archen imo. It traps and kills opposing magnemite that hard counter archen and since scarf magnemite doesn't like to switch in a lot due to its fraility without eviolite, archen can easily set it up with a pretty slow u turn. Magnemite also fares well against life orb krow.
 
Scratch my last post.

Wall of calcs below

Buizel @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd / 36 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Brick Break
Buizel is a strong attacker that can put lots of pressure on team 1, OHKO'ing Murkrow and outspeeding it if rain is up. Foongus is 2hko'ed even if it has 252/252+ and Eviolite, meaning it can't switch in either. Anything you throw at it can be hit for extreme damage if Rain is up, except for bulky Chinchou which is the only real counter.

252Atk Life Orb Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (+Def): 36% - 42% (118 - 139 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 0HP/200Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (Neutral): 52% - 61% (136 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/200Def Eviolite Levitate Misdreavus (Neutral): 41% - 49% (136 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Life Orb Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy Magnemite (Neutral): 93% - 99% (237 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy lvl 5 Magnemite (Neutral): 95% - 95% (21 - 21 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Brick Break in Rain vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy lvl 5 Magnemite (Neutral): 81% - 95% (18 - 21 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Ice Punch in Rain vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy lvl 5 Magnemite (Neutral): 18% - 22% (4 - 5 HP). Guaranteed 6HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall vs 252HP/4Def Sturdy lvl 5 Magnemite (Neutral): 68% - 86% (15 - 19 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/200Def Eviolite lvl 5 Foongus (+Def): 23% - 30% (6 - 8 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Ice Punch in Rain vs 252HP/200Def Eviolite lvl 5 Foongus (+Def): 46% - 53% (12 - 14 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 12% chance to 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Ice Punch in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite lvl 5 Foongus (+Def): 46% - 53% (12 - 14 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 12% chance to 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) crit Ice Punch in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite lvl 5 Foongus (+Def): 92% - 107% (24 - 28 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 50% chance to OHKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) crit Ice Punch in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite lvl 5 Mienfoo (+Def) behind a Reflect: 25% - 41% (6 - 10 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite lvl 5 Mienfoo (+Def) behind a Reflect: 29% - 37% (7 - 9 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite lvl 5 Mienfoo (+Def): 54% - 66% (13 - 16 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Sun vs 0HP/0Def lvl 5 Murkrow (Neutral): 40% - 59% (9 - 13 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 23% chance to 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall vs 0HP/0Def lvl 5 Murkrow (Neutral): 86% - 100% (19 - 22 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 0HP/0Def lvl 5 Murkrow (Neutral): 127% - 154% (28 - 34 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Waterfall in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Volt Absorb lvl 5 Chinchou (+Def): 22% - 29% (6 - 8 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Brick Break in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Eviolite Volt Absorb lvl 5 Chinchou (+Def): 22% - 25% (6 - 7 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) crit Brick Break in Rain vs 252HP/188Def Eviolite Volt Absorb lvl 5 Chinchou (+Def): 44% - 66% (12 - 18 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 37% chance to 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Brick Break in Rain vs 252HP/188Def Eviolite Volt Absorb lvl 5 Chinchou (+Def): 22% - 33% (6 - 9 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.
252Atk Life Orb lvl 5 Buizel (+Atk) Brick Break in Rain vs 4HP/0Def Volt Absorb lvl 5 Chinchou (Neutral): 54% - 62% (13 - 15 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
 
Might I suggest a life orb mienfoo to go with archen?

Mienfoo @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Fake Out

Mienfoo really appreciates flying types like murkrow being removed, which archen does very well. With u turn they can also form a solid momentum core, which will be useful later into the project when every poke counters another poke and momentum is the easiest way to keep an advantage in battle. With fake out we also get a good support for shell smashers and abra by breaking focus sashes and sturdy, the most important things for them. This allows mienfoo to nuke the rest of the meta with lo boosted hjks while gaining that HP back with regenerator, making it very heard to take down. It is a great addition to either team as it allows them to put immediate offensive pressure on the other team, making them hard pressed to find a solid counter/check.
 
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Chinchou @ Eviolite
Trait: Volt Absorb
Level: 5
EVs: 52 Def / 232 SAtk / 224 Spd
Modest Nature
- Heal Bell
- Volt Switch
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump

Since Archen has U-turn, i thought it would be convenient to throw another Volt Switch/U-turn user in there. Furthermore, this set gives the team Heal Bell support, which means we don't have to potentially worry about that later (if it ends up being unneeded we can change it to toxic or HP Grass). Volt switch is for momentum, Ice Beam to hit grass-types and deal with sub krow, hpump is for power.
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Okay XenForo is really stupid and there's pretty much no way to make these threads work, so please resubmit your Team 2 Pokemon 2 choices.

edit: NEVERMIND VOODOO BLACK MAGIC
 
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OK I'D LIKE TO SUBMIT A POKEMON :3
Now, what does archen despise, like really really bad?
Yup. Stealth rocks.
What do you need? Rapid spin.
What's the synergetic answer?
@Eviolite|Natural Cure
EVs- 36 HP/200 Spatk/240 Speed
Timid nature
-Hydro pump
-Thunderbolt
-Rapid spin
-Recover
We all know mold breaker drilbur is the best spinner ever. However, a compounded water weakness just isn't good. A compounded electric weakness, on the other hand, leaves you type wise weak to only chinchou as the other electric types are weak af. Chinchou can be dealt with anyway. Staryu just fires decently powerful moves and spins. That's it w/e
 

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Last edited:

apt-get

it's not over 'til it's over
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
And so, the voting is closed!

(chieliee voted for pory)
Tally:
5 Magnemite (I voted for it)
1 Buizel
4 Porygon

So Magnemite is Team 2's second Pokémon!

Here's the set:

Magnemite @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magnet Pull
Level: 5
EVs: 240 SAtk / 28 SDef / 240 Spd
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ground]

It's time to provide options for Team 1's Second Pokémon!
You have until the 30 August to send sets.
 

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