Other Tiers Item Clause Overused, Little Cup, Middle Cup, Poké Cup, Ubers and Pokémon Stadium 2 Resources & Discussion

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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It could be fun. It might be more fun if you also played at a lower level (like 30?) where other items start to look more appealing naturally.
 
Hmm yeah that got me thinking; I wonder how the effects of things like kings rock & scope lens baton pass? I know bright powder & berserk gene will. Sticked Farfetched BP's a 25% crit rate with no setup; 50% on x-chop. I'm sure a guy could do something fun with that. I've only ever been able to make BG work with Miltank & Lugia, never considered setting it up behind a safeguard though.
 
Played this tier a few times and I feel that the meta is broken and in a strange place. I think certain uncompetitive items like bright powder and quick claw should be banned but, that would severly lower the amount of items available for usage, so its a tug of war on what option to chose. W/o the ability to use leftovers on multiple mons alot of things become diffifcult to check (mixed sweepers, lax, the electric legends, etc) especially if they are running coverage or hax through their counters. Idk if this tier should take it a step further and turn into GSC battle spot (3v3 with most of the clauses gone, at level 50) or a step back by banning uncompetitive items and mons like aforementioned lax or bright quick claw. Overall I find it to be a fun tier that is in need of major tweaks to its core so it can become balanced and differentiate itself from looking like a broken version of GSC OU
 
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Guys, I´m happy that you replied to this thread and shared your opinions about this meta. Regarding the nature of the format I have to say 3 things. Firstly, Item clause has been played since the games came out in october 2000. Secondly and more important, despite the fact that the meta has been around all this time, it has never been documented, so no one has an idea of which strategies and pokémon are good or broken. And thirdly, many players want Item clause to look identical to Normal Gen 2, that´s impossible, since "we" made a change to the format and changes are expected to happen (I wrote we with quotation marks because none of us invented Item clause).

I don´t think the threats of this meta are a justified argument to quit playing it for two simple reasons, firstly, we´re not trying to substitute Normal Gen 2 with Item clause, we´re just trying to give players another option to play Gen 2; and secondly, all oficial metas have their problems, don´t believe me? Gen 1 is like gambling in a casino, Normal Gen 2 is a stallfest, most pokémon have paper thin defenses in Gen 3, weather is "broken" in Gen 5, Z Moves are "overpowered" in Gen 7, etc.

I dare to say that Gen 2 with Item clause is not a broken format, but rather an unnexplored meta. The best thing we can do with Item clause is to continue to share our opinions and suggestions to keep the meta growing.

Some players have suggested me to ban items that rely on luck, these are Bersek Gene, Bright Powder, Focus Band, King´s Rock and Quick Claw. I´ve asked the opinion of some of my friends about the idea, some agreed, some only wanted to ban 3 or 4 items, while others considered it would make the meta boring.

In my opinion, I think it is too soon to ban any of those items and that we first need to wait until the format is featured in more tournaments and more importantly, on the Ruins of Alph Spotlight, that way we´ll have more information to make a wiser decision. Until then, I suggest that when you play Item clause you tell your opponents if you want all items to be allowed or not.

Thanks again and have a good day.

Don´t fear the unknown, instead of that, try to expand your confort zone.

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Ban bright powder, focus band, berserk gene & quick claw in item clause because they "rely on luck"? Really? People actually said that? I'm not even sure you're joking anymore or not? If there's anything suspect its leftovers and thats it, mate that is hysterical! May as well ban all sleep moves except Spore, and probably Thunder too. How about banning bans? Or banning banning bands? Or will that result in the banning of banning banning bands? F#ck it lets just ban pokemon period, heaven forbid luck be a factor of this game Please don't start muddying the waters with this nerfing.
 
If you ask me, I don´t want to ban those items, not even Quick Claw which is an object I hate (it is an insult for my fast pokémon like Scyther or Pikachu); however, I have to be respectful of others´opinions, so, if the community reaches a consensus of banning those items, I´ll have to accept it.
 
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Just ribbing ya bro ;) your project, take it whichever direction you please, world's got plenty enough naysayers already. I just wasn't sure if you were being entirely serious with that one
 
i dont feel like the meta is being into a compeititive sense. More or less just like, "huh do whatever you want with the tier brah" instead of aiming to making it consistently playable. Not saying its a dumpster fire or anything, definetly think its a fun tier. But i think it'll digress into some unholy team styles and an extremely matchup based meta with even less viable mons than reg GSC OU if immeadiate action isnt taken in balancing everything.
 
Are we alone in the Universe?

I´m not the only person that plays Gen 2 with Item clause, here is a list of the people that also like this format, so if you see any of them you can send them a fight request:

-Alfredo Rivero (OU champion)
-Beelzemon2003 (OU and Ubers champion)
-Berlin Ursaring
-Ironbrony75
-FOMG
(OU champion)
-FuzyRages
-GoldenGyarados
(OU champion)
-Gustavojr
-Maelstrom 501
(Middle Cup champion)
-Mysterious Player (Little Cup Ubers champion)
-Oxford49
-Pinktidal
-Rageeeee
-RevivalMaya
(Another OU champion. Loathes Gen 2, especially Item clause; however, she sometimes accepts challenges, especially if you call her chicken for refusing to fight)
-Spitfire Arcanine

These players are available on different hours, but if you log in everyday, you´re almost guaranteed to meet at least one of them.

A world is watching over us.

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Played this tier a few times and I feel that the meta is broken and in a strange place. I think certain uncompetitive items like bright powder and quick claw should be banned but, that would severly lower the amount of items available for usage, so its a tug of war on what option to chose. W/o the ability to use leftovers on multiple mons alot of things become diffifcult to check (mixed sweepers, lax, the electric legends, etc) especially if they are running coverage or hax through their counters. Idk if this tier should take it a step further and turn into GSC battle spot (3v3 with most of the clauses gone, at level 50) or a step back by banning uncompetitive items and mons like aforementioned lax or bright quick claw. Overall I find it to be a fun tier that is in need of major tweaks to its core so it can become balanced and differentiate itself from looking like a broken version of GSC OU
I'm not sure if by GSC battle spot, you mean Crystal Battle Tower, but the idea sounds quite similar. Assuming level 50 for the Battle Tower format, there's not only an item clause, but also an in-built "banlist" on the cartridge (Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh and Celebi can only be used at lv. 70 and higher), as well as the exclusion of Dragonite and Tyranitar for different reasons.

In short, 3v3 is certain to be much more efficient as far as less useful items go, but then again, I can imagine it being even more Snorlax-centric than the 6v6 version.
 
I'm not sure if by GSC battle spot, you mean Crystal Battle Tower, but the idea sounds quite similar. Assuming level 50 for the Battle Tower format, there's not only an item clause, but also an in-built "banlist" on the cartridge (Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh and Celebi can only be used at lv. 70 and higher), as well as the exclusion of Dragonite and Tyranitar for different reasons.

In short, 3v3 is certain to be much more efficient as far as less useful items go, but then again, I can imagine it being even more Snorlax-centric than the 6v6 version
Yeah thats basically what i meant. Idk what the point of banning TTar and Dnite would be but banning Lax+ every aformentioned legend (Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Celebi) seems like it would balance the tier. 3v3 + Item Clause GSC sounds pretty appealing.
 
Yeah thats basically what i meant. Idk what the point of banning TTar and Dnite would be but banning Lax+ every aformentioned legend (Mewtwo, Mew, Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Celebi) seems like it would balance the tier. 3v3 + Item Clause GSC sounds pretty appealing.
Dragonite and Tyranitar are not banned on purpose, they just happen to evolve at level 55, which excludes them from any format played at level 50.

Banning Snorlax would remove this even further from the GSC we know and love, but it seems like that's what you're going for in the first place.
 
I once played Pika Cup with a friend called Gustavo Jr. For those who don´t know, Pika Cup is a Gen 1 format that was featured on the game Pokémon Stadium 1 where you had to use pokémon from levels 15 to 20, you could only choose 3 out of your 6 pokémon and only one of those pokémon could be at level 20.

When me and Gustavo played, we made some adjustments to make the matches more fun. Firstly, all mons had to be at level 20; and secondly, battles were of 6 vs 6 pokémon. In short, if you want to play Poké Cup, you can apply similar changes: all your pokés can be at level 55 and battles can be of 6 vs 6. Is just a suggestion.
 
Hey I just want to mention that King's Rock checks for flinch on every hit of Beat Up. This is a shitty gimmick but even more so with leftovers in play because you get like 5% after them, but it's worth mentioning that without leftovers and using par support, you can have an effect similar to Togekiss/Jirachi flinch spamming. This is notable for Houndoom and Sneasel (lol) because chip actually matters in this metagame. It's not unreasonable to get 2-3 flinches and Houndoom actually hits really hard with STAB fire blast, allowing him to be a legitimate offensive threat.

Takes some support like thief/explosion to remove their leftovers user, but it's surprisingly effective at times and worth playing around with. Of course it's totally luck based and goes even further into the problems Lavos has mentioned, which I agree with, so don't build your team around it, but if you wanna be that guy having a 50%+ flinch move in a chip meta is something worth mentioning that moves KR potential up a lot. Yeah everything also dies quickly so your Beat Up gets weaker over time, but you could feasibly block a rest someone thinks they can get against Houndoom and then FB can kill/force them out. Bad but not useless in this meta.
 
Beat Up works wonders on Chansey and Blissey. By the way, I invite you to watch the replays of Gen 2 with Item Clause, they´re in this thread, almost at the end of the second page : )
 
Beat Up works wonders on Chansey and Blissey. By the way, I invite you to watch the replays of Gen 2 with Item Clause, they´re in this thread, almost at the end of the second page : )
You should put the replays in the OP. They will be easier to find there for new players trying to break into the tier. Just a tip
 

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