Inheritance Inheritance (Magic Bounce and Good as Gold Banned!)

[Don Vascus]

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Yawn

For some reason this here is being counted as an illegal set, although when yawn is removed, it's allowed. Should be able to inherit the set from Espeon.

Sleep moves are hard banned, which include yawn

 

[Don Vascus]

Pssh, I have a non-passive spinner for you

Why use Chien-Pao as a spinner? For two reasons, the first is that it's a strong Dark type and therefore inherently hazardous to spinblock, and the second is that it's really fast so it can get the spin off in many situations, even as a last ditch effort.
The combination of Knock Off, Ice Spinner and Rapid Spin is surprisingly common so the choice hinges on the fourth move and ability you want, I'll analyze a few examples here.

Chien-Pao donors

Provides the SturdyBoots combo, Ice Shard and Earthquake

Fits well on Sun, that's about it. Headlong Rush alone isn't a big enough selling point.

Moxie is pretty nice to raise its threat level, can pick off weakened threats with Rapid Spin, can potentially run Swords Dance, CC is a good coverage move.

The no-brainer option if you want your Pao to pivot.

What you pick if the Regenerator slot is already occupied, though Comatose isn't too bad, and it's the only option with Sucker Punch.

This is the raw power option, it's significantly stronger than the other Paos at the cost of utility.

A honorable mention goes to who due to Queenly Majesty would be the default pick if she still had Triple Axel (maybe in Indigo Disk), but can be still usable if you are willing to drop Ice STAB.

Chien-Pao with Knock Off OHKOs uninvested Gholdengo and 2HKOs physically defensive ones, so spinblocking it is highly risky. Unless the Gholdengo is Fur Coat in which case Pao is kinda stonewalled, but at least it will remove its lefties let's hope GF is ballsy enough to give both Knock Off and Ice Spinner to Excadrill.

May you please inform me about the effectiveness of the rock typing against the pokemon which you consider a fine spinner?


More realistically, maushold has tech beat up and tidy up, so you can just use a dark type and remove with that

 

[Notagamer]

Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Yawn

For some reason this here is being counted as an illegal set, although when yawn is removed, it's allowed. Should be able to inherit the set from Espeon.

Sleep moves clause bans all sleep moves yawn included.

 

[SergioRules]

May you please inform me about the effectiveness of the rock typing against the pokemon which you consider a fine spinner?
More realistically, maushold has tech beat up and tidy up, so you can just use a dark type and remove with that

I'm assuming this person was referencing H-Avalugg's Strong Jaw boosted STAB moves in addition to Rapid Spin (really only Crunch bc don't use Ice Fang). However, this still only hits slightly harder than a regular Sword of Ruin Ice Spinner. Pretty much any of the other donors they listed are better for Chien-Pao, seconding the Komala mention for access to U-turn too.
252 Atk Strong Jaw Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 367-433 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 348-409 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And so this post isn't a one-liner, I want to say two other things.
1) I've been working on a database for all potentially viable donors in this meta. It's a work in progress, very monotonous and time consuming, but I hope to have it done before the end of the month!

2) I think we may need to open a discussion about rain. Pelipper (Inteleon) is an insane offensive presence on its own, only further supported by things like Urshifu-Rapid inheriting from Crawdaunt/Palafin/Beartic. It feels pretty centralizing to me, though I'm not sure if ladder reflects that well. It feels like you either have to dedicate a slot to AV Cyclizar (Goodra-H) or some other bulky AV mon and a dedicated water immunity just to have a chance versus a well played rain team.
I'm not sure if the solution to this would be looking at Pelipper as a donor, Urshifu-Rapid as an inheritor, or some other measure but I think looking at something like that could be a good idea. It's also entirely possible that I'm overreacting and just need to get good at the game but I've been doing a lot of laddering and felt restricted by rain quite a few times (both while using it and while playing against it).

 

[Talpr0ne]

May you please inform me about the effectiveness of the rock typing against the pokemon which you consider a fine spinner?

Imagine using any spinner without boots.
EDIT:

More realistically, maushold has tech beat up and tidy up, so you can just use a dark type and remove with that

Tidy Up is unblockable so it doesn't need to be a Dark type, unfortunately both Maushold and Furret have awkward movepools with the latter having also terrible abilities.
Another option for completely unblockable removal is running Mold Breaker Hawlucha on something like Corviknight, this shouldn't function too badly but is awkward in the builder because it has a single purpose and is inferior to Talonflame or any other donor in any scenario except Good as Gold inheritors.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Mixed Sun Core

Iron Moth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Energy Ball
- Weather Ball
- Healing Wish

IMO, Moth is the best standalone Ninetails inheritor because of it's combination of speed and special attack. I prefer Modest to get the 2HKO on H-Goodra after 1 layer of spikes. Energy Ball can be used over Solar Beam to hit a Drizzle pokemon switch in such as Inteleon or Manaphy.

Great Tusk @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp/Whirlwind
- Morning Sun
- Body Press / Earthquake
- U-Turn

Great Tusk (inh from Slither Wing) benefits immensely as a partner because it loses its weakness to Water attacks and recovers 2/3 of it's health from Morning Sun. Slither Wing has the perfect movepool for Tusk to make use of as a physical wall / phazer / pivot.

Just to put into context how bulky this thing becomes during sun:

Hide

252 Atk Adaptability Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Protosynthesis Great Tusk in Sun: 100-120 (23 - 27.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

Hide

Sample team:

 

[Don Vascus]

Hello! Inheritance finally has it's first tiering survey! Check it out!

Also anaconja has joined us as part of the council!

 

[Notagamer]

Walking wake has this really weird bug where it requires max attack ivs to use. Dragalge, one of its popular doners does not require max attack iv however multiple people have reported it bugging in inh.

 

[Hiusi guy]

I have funny ideas for mons but I don't know the meta much, besides knowing that hoodra is on almost every team, so im gonna post a few sets but with little context

Darkrai @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs / Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Pain Split / Substitute / Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast / Dazzling Gleam / Defog
(Ik specs loses to hoodra, dont remind me)

Great Tusk @ Salac Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Belly Drum
- Brick Break
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch / Fire Punch
- Earthquake
Fire punch hits levi ghold, thunder punch hits corv and molt

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Power Whip
- Aqua Tail
- Knock Off / Ice Spinner / Wild Charge / Rapid Spin
Sweeps a good amount of teams weirdly enough Unless it misses

Scream Tail @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Roost
Free my girl, she did nothin wrong

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon (M) @ Booster Energy / Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Boomburst
- Trick Room / Wish
- Fire Blast / Calm Mind
- Focus Blast / Calm Mind
*Insert FNAF theme*

Zoroark-Hisui @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Body Slam / Rock Slide(?)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Fire Blast
- Close Combat
AAA but better

Thank you for your time

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Darkrai @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs / Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Pain Split / Substitute / Sludge Bomb
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic / Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast / Dazzling Gleam / Defog

Serious question - does Neutralizing Gas prevent Regen from working? If so, it could be huge for wearing down HGoodra since it has no other way to recover.

 

[quziel]

If the neutralizing gas user is in when the Regen user switches out, they don't get regen recovery.

Should note that in means on the field. Eg if you have Tusk in vs Hoodra, and you switch to Ngas Darkrai while they also switch out, because Tusk is faster, and therefore switches first, no recovery for the Hoodra user.

 

[BijouMode]

sup, don't normally post here but just wanted to dump the teams I used in OMWC and used to get 4 (maybe 5) accounts to over 1450 (i aint laddering any more than that)

Game One vs Panda (W): (Outdated)
Pretty mid stall imo, made it while I was getting back into the format. Didn't throw too hard and got the dub. Team's outdated now, so you can't use this one.

Game Two vs Gawain (W):
This is the first team I made that I actually liked, also start of my HO arc. Misplayed Turn 1 but brought it back with Zap for the win (Ban Frosmoth btw).

Game Three vs Cat (W): (Outdated)
Cool team, another HO, this time with two more niche breakers, might be less good but still pretty shiest. In the game misplayed with Hands, got bailed by Scream / Para / Meteor Mash miss chance. (You can still probably use this if you change out STail for smth else like Mew)

Semifinals vs Cscl (W):
Rain now, pretty straightforward, apart from Cyclizar!Hands and Dry Skin Lando. Played the game well (apart from random Wake sac), got the dub.

Finals vs Pannu (L):
Another HO, probably one of my favourites, with Shifu and Moon, rest of the team is kinda self-explanatory. Played the game terribly with unnecessary RMoon predicts, also selected wrong version from builder, but regardless, took the L.

Conclusion:
Cool tourney, was nice to play Inh again, ban FurScales, council might have to keep an eye on certain versions of Moon, Val, Urshifu, Wake, and Sun.

peace out. ggs all.
(btw if anyone wants more builds just hmu)

 

[Mywookiearmy]

Hey folks! Are the exact same verbatim rain HO teams really bugging you? Do you need to show them what a real team looks like? Have I got a goofy set for you! :)



Iron Hands @ Leftovers (Cacturne Inherited)
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch

OH YEAH WE'RE COOKING. In all seriousness this is just to cheese rain teams, and kinda sorta work outside of it (swap Def for Spe or SpD I'm just lazy). Cacturne gives you actually everything you really want to pop off with poorly named Hariyama. Drain and Dunda Punch for STAB, and Sucker Punch for Priority alongside Swords Dance. This is mainly just because I've been salty at being unga bungad by the exact same rain team everyone is copypasting rn lol

 

[Dorsia]

Talking about rains, I've come up with this:



Diancie @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Body Press
- Whirlwind
- Slack Off

Since it's slower than Corviknight/Pelipper, it means it will set Sandstorm after it, forcing your opponent to switch to set up rain again. This mean you can basically set up your rocks for free. Whirlwind is very nice if you want to stack hazard. Also, you can take advantage with the sand with Great Tusk/Lycanroc for instance.
Diancie is very bulky and will pair well with things like Blissey or Corviknight. Regular Gholdengo completely walls this set tho.

Also, I'd like to have your opinion on this:


Landorus (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Air Slash
- Roost / Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam

CM + dual STAB, simple as that. Fire Blast is meant for Levitate Gholdengo, Thunderbolt for Corviknight and Ice Beam for Ting-Lu.

 

[Mywookiearmy]

I wanted to open up discussion on this, since I feel we can all agree to some extant (including the survey) that this thing is a problem for the tier. As it stands, Hoodra is head and shoulders above any other regen user in the tier, THE special wall and pivot of the tier, and while I don't find it as inherently unhealthy as some other mons, definitely is overcentralizing. When specs mons are essentially unusable, and every other special attacker is forced to run mixed fighting coverage or substitute, something needs to happen. I'll state my opinion on what I think should be changed, and what I think would open up more doors for the metagame and team diversity.



My thoughts, is that Cyclizar is the real problem here. Outside of new players and/or gimmicky regen sets, have any of you seen a regen mon that ISN'T inheriting from the vroomosaur? I find that it's actually Cyclizar that is more overcentralizing for the tier than Hoodra, it's just that Hoodra is the best abuser of the ludicrous tools that Cyclizar provides- mainly the combo of Regen, Rapid Spin, Knock, Uturn AND Dragon Tail. There is genuinely no other set you should run other than these 4 moves outside of MAYBE Iron Head for a few select fairies. Dragon Tail invalidates any SpA sweeper that either can't hit you on the physical side for super effective, is fairy, or is using substitute. Rapid Spin and Knock are just incredible role compression, and Uturn is the best move a regen mon could ever ask for. What I'm getting at is if we ban Hoodra, sure, the regen mons that pop up like Ting-Lu for example will be overall less effective, but they will still all run exclusively Cyclizar. If we banned Cyclizar, it would not only lower the strength of Hoodra, but still allow the tier to have a reliable special pivot, and open up FAR more diversity in regen donors. Granted, we lose the combo of both regen and rapid spin, which could further boost hazard stacking's viability (which I think NONE of us want), but it's a step in the right direction imo to bring SpAers back into the metagame that aren't just mixed or raw nukes.

I will say, if we did ban Cyclizar, I feel it would almost be mandatory to ban either GaG or Gholdengo to offset this massive buff to hazard stacking. While I, personally, would not cry to see Gholdengo go, I don't think it's awful for the metagame by any means as it stands right now, it just unfortunately is saddled with the most toxic ability in the game. I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts and opinions, since the survey brought it up and is now closed.
(also Happy Thanksgiving!)

 

[Don Vascus]

Survey results time! We apologize for taking so long, the council was busy with other stuff

I'll be putting these on spoiler thingies so that it doesnt clutter the thread

Enjoyability and Competitiveness

On a scale of 1-10, how enjoyable do you find the current metagame?

Average (everyone): 6,48
Average (qualified players): 7,5

This is good! people really like the tier. While not a primary goal. it's still important to us if people are having fun.


On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?

Average (everyone): 5,63
Average (qualified players): 6

This could be better, however. It is to be expected for a tier with only a few months of play.

Mons and abilities we asked about (on a scale of 1-5)

Magic Bounce

Average (everyone): 3,33
Average (qualified players): 2,83

Magic bounce usage in OMWC really dwindled after the Big Jigglypuff ban; Enamorus-T really isnt the same, and its movepool doesnt lend itself to much. However its still magic bounce, so its capable to turning the hazard game into a matchup fish, so we will keep monitoring it.

Drizzle

Average (everyone): 3,70
Average (qualified players): 4,17

Drizzle has proven quite strong both in ladder and tournament play, between the many good offensive waters and just how good pelipper is as a donor for standalone abusers and dedicated setters alike, and will probably recieve some tiering action soon.

Drought

Average (everyone): 3,22
Average (qualified players): 3

Drought ranked lower than its wet counterpart, but still ranked high enough to keep a watch on it.

Tauros/Sheer Force

Average (everyone): 3
Average (qualified players): 3,17

These were bundled together because Tauros is by far the best Sheer Forcer. They have ranked high enough to keep in mind, especially with the potential return of more SF donors with wider movepools

Contrary

Average (everyone): 3,19
Average (qualified players): 2,5

Contrary hasnt made much of an impact on the tournament scene so far, but it has seen its occational usage on ladder. Lurantis, its only donor so far, has a very limited movepool with the bare necesities, and spamming superpower might be tough in a tier with gholdengo in it, but i still believe it should be kept in mind

Goodra-Hisui

Average (everyone): 2,44
Average (qualified players): 2,33

GoodraH was put in the survey to finally quell the small minority that wants it gone. It as a whole hasnt even cracked 2,5; so it wont be put on high alert

Unaware

Average (everyone): 2,15
Average (qualified players): 1,5

Unaware was put here as to keep in check on it since last gen it was banned, despite even more flexible donors, it hasnt really come up on anyones radar

Darkrai

Average (everyone): 3,33
Average (qualified players): 2,83

Darkrai has been pretty common both in tour and ladder play, and theres a notable difference between the opinion of qualified and regular players. It will still be monitored going foward.

Iron Valiant

Average (everyone): 3,63
Average (qualified players): 3,67

Future Gallade has been rated pretty high from both player bases, and will probably recieve some sort of tiering action soon.

Hazard Stack (Yes/No question + write in)

About half the playerbase thinks its a problem, with the number dropping to 1/3 between quallifed players. In retrospect, we shouldve made this question also a 1-5 rating instead of a yes/no one, to better gauge player opinion

for the write in part the most mentioned thing was GaG, closely followed by Ghold. Notably a couple people wrote that the hazards themselves could also be banned, and shout outs to the two guys that wrote in Ceasless Edge, which is already banned. It shows that you have passing knowledge of the tier and that someone has told you all the pains of playing it, but you never played it yourself. The ultimate armchair player answer.

Is there anything else you think the council should look at?

The most common answer for this was Quiver Dance and Frostmoth/Ice Scales. We will put it on the next survey. Other answers included regen, which is probably not gonna happen, and revbless, which i feel like its not more talked about because people dont really know its legal

are you having a nice day :)

the most important question

Also a council update: The Number Man has stepped down from the council. Thank you for your service!

 

[Don Vascus]

Double post for my personal thoughts for each thing in the survey

Magic Bounce

Id give this a 3. Its a real pain every time you face it, and enami has a good enough matchup into most hazard setters if you give it covert cloak, so i wouldnt mind seeing it gone

Drizzle

a very heavy 4. For the record, when doing the vote for mecha santa, i also advocated for voting on pelipper, bc it has uturn and knock and a dummy strong move. This was before all the really good offensive waters came in dlc btw.

Drought

a light 3. Ive tried using Nplot Lo Ninetales!Future Volcarona in Screens HO and it has disappointed me at every turn. Every miss, every low roll. I can only take so much. And it sucks ass as a setter for other teams bc it doesnt have any moves that are good on mons in that role like hazards, pivoting, recovery, etc. I also dont think much of sun as a whole bc the abusers are kinda specific too, and there arent many good fire types in the tier. However, i cant rate too low anything that has a chance to ohko av goodrah from full with a neutral move:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Iron Moth Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui in Sun: 313-370 (85.9 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Tauros/Sheer Force

a heavy 3. Tauros!Infernape is pretty annoying to face, and lives up to the hype of last gen's SF boosted terrors. However, it is relatively slow, and Clefable coming back with focus punch really ate his lunch with its more varied movepool and mg letting you actually use mons like thundy. The other potential abusers either are rock weak, or are a ghost, which have a propensity to eat shit vs Garg donors and suffer bc shadow ball is somewhat weak. When nidoking comes back all hell will break loose, youll see

Contrary

a light 3. Lurantis only learns 3 whole moves for its physical sets, and 1 for its special sets, but its still a potentially scary set to face if you dont have a gholdengo. This would be much much better if one of the most common pokemon wasnt a bulky ghost, but i guess unaware also checks it.

Goodra-Hisui

1. just run mixed sets/sub cm on it, idiot :5head:

Unaware

light 2. Unaware i guess you could say got balanced by power creep this gen, huh?

Darkrai

a heavy 2. Darkrai is so funny. It has 1.5 sets, none with much flexibility, but the one real set is has is so powerfull you HAVE to respect it. clawitzer!darkrai out performs most other potential sets just by the fact that aura sphere chunks goodrah so much, even before taking into account that it also has the strongest dark pulse, but it lacks ways of hitting fighting types, and it doesnt have any funny or cool covearge worth exploring beyond those two + a move to hit fairies.

Future Gallade

5. I predicted before mixed sets would one day bring the tier to its knees, but this only came to fruition with the return of the clef, a great improvement over the essencially abilityless enami and mew i initially suggested. It also doesnt help that dlc also gave it its noctowl set, just to add to the many ways this mon can rip your soul out

Hazard Stack

Im team "ban ghold just for being a easy to fit spinblocker" for this one. hazard stack really has no good solution. I dont thing GaG would particularly solve anything, as right now neither it or defog see high levels of usage. defog donors are just not that good. and you could argue taking the most common spinblocker from most teams could be for naught as people can still run dedicated blocker like annihilape or spiritomb if they really wanted to. If we were to play current day meta for like a year or so, i would see myself eventually doing a spikes suspect honestly.

are you having a nice day :)

yes :)

 

[SnomisaBomb]

This is my first time posting on here ever, and I wanted to show some fun and unique sets that I have used on the ladder and climbed decently high with. By no means will these sets get you to rank one (As far as I am aware), but they are fun!

Landorus-Therian (Delibird) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Drill Run
- Focus Punch / Gunk Shot / Destiny Bond / Memento
- Ice Shard / Ice Spinner / Icicle Spear / Spikes

Banded Hustle was fun to play on Squawkabilly when gen 9 first came out, so I took it to a new level with a Pokemon that can actually take a hit. Brave Bird is the move you are going to be clicking 80% of the time, Drill Run hits the steels and rocks, and the other two moves can really be anything. I like Focus Punch because it can be surprising to Pokemon swapping in, mainly Corvi, and Ice Shard is nice priority. I also like to pair it with either Revival Blessing or a slow pivoting Wish user to ensure that it stays alive for longer.

Iron Hands (Hisuian-Decidueye) @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat / Triple Arrows
- U-turn
- Brave Bird / Roost
- Sucker Punch

A fun stall breaker that consumes Fur Coat Gholdengo for breakfast. It gets hard walled by Enam and Pex, but can shut down other tanks like Ting-Lu, Great Tusk, Mandibuzz, and everyones favorite Hisuian Goodra.

Tyranitar (Cyclizar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Spinner / Facade / Dragon Tail

Under sand, Ttar is more tanky then the parasite that is Hisuian Goodra. It also hits harder, but you can invest bulk instead of attack to take hits better. Just dont forget that Ttar is weak to basically everything. But on the bright side, your team wont have the Hisuian Goodra that is on like 90% of teams.

Volcanion (Cyclizar or Galarian-Slowking) @ Assault Vest / Heavy Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Aqua Tail OR Hydro Pump / Surf
- Overheat OR Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Rapid Spin OR Ice Beam
- U-turn OR Chilly Reception / Sludge Bomb

I think that Volcanion is very underrated. If rain gets the ban hammer, then I feel that Sun will become the next popular weather. A lot of my teams have ways to deal with rain, but they struggle with fire moves. I landed on Volcanion, who has good bulk and a 4x resistance to fire. I have used a set involving Cyclizar, and several with Galarian Slowing as donors. Both are good picks, and I cannot decide a favorite, so I gave both sets lol. You could even try a much more attack weighted mixed set to deal with Blissey and Hisuan Goodra. (I might end up making another post all on Volcanion, experimenting is fun :) )

Snorlax (Volcanion) @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Explosion
- Flare Blitz
- Body Slam
- Earthquake

This set is bad. But they removed my Self-Destruct Snorlax, so this is the next best thing. I have also done it with Neutralizing Gas and Levitate, but this one can soft counter rain teams. Just don't use it.

 

[pannu]

hello we banned stuff

Drizzle and Iron valiant are banned!!!

Iron Valiant
Valiant was banned due to its amount of viable sets, it is fully impossible to build a team safe against every set valiant can run. clefairy!valiant is able to outlast a plethora of its checks thanks to its good coverage and hazard immunity, further more it can run drain punch to beat regenvesters such as Snorlax or Goodra-H. Poison types and Steel-types that dont die to its fighting moves, like Gholdengo, Fezandipti, Corviknight and Toxapex struggle against hoothoot!valiant due to tinted lens + nasty plot shredding through them, and pokemon that rely on speed to beat it like scarf Landorus or Sneasler are useless against scarf variants and the aforementioned hoothoot set, should it run agility. There are many more sets i didnt even mention, but this made it too overbearing in the builder and as such we voted to ban it.


Drizzle

Drizzle was banned because it enables water types too much, making them overbearing. here are some OMWC replays showing drizzle + water breakers just shredding teams. Basically any water-type takes advantage of the rain, with mons like psyduck, crawdaunt, and beartic all give access to strong water moves, swift swim, and boosting options. Rain was very uncompetetive so we decided to ban it. The reason we went for drizzle instead of pelipper or damp rock is because drizzle is good both on offensive mons (inteleon, greninja, gyarados etc.) and as a rain setter (corv only really), banning damp rock wouldnt hinder the offensive mons and banning pelipper wouldnt stop the broken water-types from abusing rain.

For now we dont plan on having any action until the dlc2 meta has shaped up. We do plan to resuspect valiant sometime in the future to see if its more handleable in the post dlc metagame. tagging Kris to implement (thank you!)

 

[Mywookiearmy]

First off love to see the Valiant and Drizzle ban, and since that means my memey Poorly Named Hariyama set is now out of date, time for a new one as well as some others to end off the month!


Iron Hands @ Punching Glove (Inheriting Breloom)
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch/Force Palm
- Thunder Punch
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance

Yeah it's a punching meme, that's about it. Wanted Drain and Dunda Punch for a good reliable STAB combo (or Force Palm also works for this set), as well as priority and guess who! Is this set good? Not... really, but it's goofy and walled again by Gholdengo! :D



Infernape @ Life Orb (Inheriting Tauros)
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Flamethrower
- Close Combat
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

OK SO PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS. I NEVER ran into anyone using this on ladder so I decided to give it a try, since I always dissed Tauros sets and... ok I can kinda see why people wouldn't mind this being gone. It's basically slightly worse Nidoking and it is kinda gross with the least cool Sinnoh starter. Prob more moves you could use but this is what I use and it's really versatile and strong coverage, and infernape has a great speed tier to go along with it. I just posted this not because it's particularily interesting but that I've finally come around to Tauros after dissing Sheer Force all month.


Slither Wing @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Axe Kick
- First Impression
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Ok I'll be real this one isn't creative either (didn't really have a lot of cool ideas sadly) but I just LOVE Slither Wing and how unga bunga it is in every OM. You click First Impression, or Uturn, or Kick, and just vaporize things. Who cares that their (insert fast threat) outspeeds and OHKOs my entire team when I have a win button? Band probably isn't the best set my any means since it leaves you so vulnerable after clicking FI, but it's infinitely fun to dismantle slower mons with Uturn and just delete any fast threat with FI- as well as Knock to force pressure on Gholdengo switch ins.

 

[CoolTrainerGary]

Would you all consider anretest in the near future now that drizzle is banned? I feel like a huge part of Bundle's tier-breaking power came from the rain-boosted attacks.

 

[Notagamer]

Would you all consider anretest in the near future now that drizzle is banned? I feel like a huge part of Bundle's tier-breaking power came from the rain-boosted attacks.

Iron bundle actually had a lotta set variety tho, only buffed by Basc access to flip turn and Manaphy tripping (tail glow more like tail no) i think just taking one set doesn’t make it more balanced overall, definitely not enough for a retest

 

[Mywookiearmy]

Alright sorry I lied, I was doing some last minute theory-crafting with Skeledirge and discovered some cursed sets


Torterra @ Leftovers (Inheriting from Skeledirge)
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Curse
- Slack Off
- Seed Bomb

This is a joke set, merely existing because I realized Dirge has Earthquake and Seed Bomb for whatever reason. Behold! A grass type that can't even beat waters, you truly are a marvel Coolest Sinnoh Starter


Ogerpon (F) @ Light Clay
Ability: Sharpness (Inherting from Gallade)
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Teleport

It's a fast screen setter that can hit decently hard. That's about it, I thought it was funny Gallade got teleport and dual screens. Don't use it, it's bad just use electrode or something.


Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Low Kick
- Poltergeist
- Recover
- Substitute

The only set that isn't just a joke, someone on ladder a while back got me with low kick gholdengo (why GF??) Annihilape and I thought it was neat. Just wanted to bring it to attention because I haven't seen anyone use it since. Kinda neat :)


Ting-Lu @ Leftovers
Ability: Insomnia
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off

The lame Electrode-H hazard spam vs the CHAD Bulky Hazard Stacker. Is this good? No clue, but I'm sick of seeing Electrode D: also shouldn't Webs be really good for the format? Unrestricted GaG alongside a lot of threats being weak to webs makes me feel like this should be used a lot more no? (I mean not like it matters much ladder is ending tomorrow lmao)
Also me hopping on ladder and seeing people with no honor abusing Valiant before the bans are implemented
jokes aside was a fun month and I never want to see Poorly Named Gallade ever again :) cheers everyone

 

[Don Vascus]

DLC time! defog didnt return cancel the gen

Of course this means a simple update for the banlist:

Deoxys regular, Deoxys Attack, Ho-Oh, Kyurem-Black, Kyurem-White, Lugia, Lunala, Necrozma DM and DW, Regigigas, Reshiram, Smeargle, Solgaleo, Zekrom as well as Water Bubble are gonna start banned in inheritance!

These are all guys with bsts too strong for the tier, while smeargle has an infinite movepool.

On top of that, we voted on a couple of new guys:

	Don Vascus	anaconja	Clefable	pannu	Result
Pecharunt	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	4-0 BAN
Deoxys-Speed	DNB	ABS	DNB	DNB	0-3-1 STARTS FREE

Pecharunt will start banned, while Deoxys-Speed will start free!

Pecharunt is a ghost poison type with 160 defense and 88 in every other stat. The last thing this tier needs is an obsenely physically bulky ghost type that can also effectively run gholdengo as a donor. Hazard stack was already problematic with how limited removal was and it has not gotten any better, so we decided to not make it even worse with a super bulky ghost in the tier.

Deoxys-Speed is a fast pokemon with mixed offensive stats, usually a recipe for brokenness in this tier, but unlike pokemon similar to it like Regieleki and Dragapult, it has a mediocre offensive typing in mono psychic, so we decided to give it a fair shot. A lot of scary things are starting free, so it might fit in quite nicely

Also a little update compared to the rest, but Razor fang is also banned. King's Rock is banned so King's rock's clone should also be

Thank you Kris in advance for implementing it and Have fun!

 

[Dorsia]

DLC2 brings lot of fun stuff I'd forward to use (I still miss Nidoking/Nidoqueen tho)



Annihilape @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard / Iron Fist
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poltergeist
- Dynamic Punch / Close Combat / Focus Punch
- Stone Edge / Ice Punch
- Substitute

Dual STABs with 100% accuracy and perfect coverage are nice yet I wish Golurk learnt Bulk Up. Annihilape certainly has better mons to inherit.



Primarina @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Surf
- Draining Kiss
- Thunderbolt

Electric immunity that grants +1 SpA is cool; quite surprising.



Hatterene @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Synthesis

This one used to be a classic back then.


Iron Boulder @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake

The typing is...disappointing but let's give it a chance. SFLO Iron Boulder must hit hard.



Incineroar @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Contrary
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Knock Off
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Very cheesy, the way I like it.



Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fickle Beam
- Earth Power
- Hydro Pump / Leaf Storm / Recover / X

Fickle Beam looks crazy. Earth Power hits Gholdengo/H-Goodra. Life Orb + Regenerator is nice.