All Gens Infinite Matches

[Disaster Area]

Well.. this concept's discussion is in some ways beyond the realm of these generations, but on the flipside are only realistically likely in GSC and in certain tiers RBY.

What methods are there to constitute an infinite match? As far as I can see it it's one of three conditions:
- Switching forever and not burning through PP being optimal
- 2 Pokemon locked in to face eachother and their struggle dealing less than they are healing
- 2 Pokemon facing eachother in a 1v1 scenario where both Pokemon have transform (in certain gens - is true in RBY)

The second scenario basically is wobbuffet/wynaut in gen 3 dittos, which is fairly well understood etc. The first scenario is an interesting scenario (and I'd like to hear suggestions about how it is avoided in metagames where it bears relevance for example) - most notably is in GSC when both teams are heavily defensive in nature and neither side has successfully kept spikes up, and the spikes-users are both fainted, and neither player's team can do enough damage to the other (e.g. loss of all other wincons outside of last-mon beating wincons). The third scenario was discussed recently by Lutra - it is relevant in RBY Ubers, if both players were to bring transform Mew and for those two pokemon to be the final ones remaining - especially if they are Mews without an attack [reflect/softboiled/thunder wave/transform is the ubers set]. Should anything be done about the final one in that and possibly other (relevant?) contexts, thoughts on dealing with the primary one (particularly if you and your opponent both wanted to take a defensive approach to the game) and have I missed anything?!

 

[McMeghan]

For the record, leftovers is banned on Wobbuffet in ADV Uber (only tier where it's playable in gen 3) to avoid infinite battles.

 

[Lutra]

I think Transform will probably have to be banned from standard RBY tiers, since it seems far too easy to get into a situation where you're just spamming transform against each other's Mew, to effectively not lose any PP (5 PP repeated constantly). Sorry Ditto, you were useless anyway.

Also, depending on the exact mechanics of Mimic and how likely it will result in a similar situation, both Mimic and Transform may have to be banned as part of an Infinite PP Clause for RBY.

 

[Disaster Area]

how does mimic's exact mechanics work again? Surely if it mimic's mimic you get a mimic which you can use and eventually you'll pick something that's not mimic - an infinite battle with mimic is impossible afaik. Lol ditto banned.. hmm.. it's a victim of transitivity isn't it! If you need to ban transform in ubers (if you're sure that scenarios where infinite battles would happen frequently enough otherwise, say 1% of matches) then I guess poor ditto gets banned from ubers, and thus OU too.

 

[Lutra]

I think Mimic stays the same based on options selected though (and maybe time?) in link battles, when I tested it. Needs someone to look at the code.

 

[Crystal_]

The only way to can get into an infinite battle with Mimic is if both mons know Mimic as their only move. In link battles mimic picks a move from the opponent at random.

 

[Lutra]

I see, so with just 1 other move than mimic on each Pokémon, it'd be a 3/4 chance for a Pokémon to copy a move other than mimic, and 1/4 each time for both Pokémon to copy mimic. So it'd be effectively 1/4^n to extend the battle by n turns if you were keeping both mimic users in vs each other. Therefore, it's not going to realistically result in competitive battles too long to be played out, given that a Pokémon at least needs to be a threat to any other incoming Pokémon, and as such, needs additional moves.

I think my testing a few years ago wasn't thorough and my cycling of choosing moves corresponded closely to the randomly generated cycle of moves, which is why I thought mimic might stick to choosing mimic.

With Transform, you copy the foe's whole moveset, so there is that potential to be a serious threat to other Pokémon.

 

[LightningLord2]

Struggle is a normal-type move in Gen 1 rather than being typeless - if two Gengars run out of PP on each other and nothing else is left on the team (unlikely as Gengar almost always carries Explosion), they keep struggling without being able to hurt each other.

 

[xDesch]

Interesting thread! If I understand this correctly, we're trying to find more ways to create infinite battles (outside of those recently patched) and find ways to patch or avoid said scenarios? I'm not sure what the restrictions here are outside of that, but I can name a couple of ways to create infinite battles, as long as both players are actively trying to do so (instead of one of them trying to end it). As the OP stated, one way (and the most obvious one, as well) is if both players just switch every turn. Some ways you can get both players into a such cycle would be if you have Leppa Berry + Recycle/Harvest Taunt + another move that doesn't deal any damage and use it against a team with only 2 pokes left, both having either something similar to Toxic, or i.e. Foresight / Odor Sleuth + a Fighting Move (if the first poke is Ghost type). This way, you can continue to Taunt and use your other filler move and watch as they continue to switch, because they need to land Toxic or Foresight in order to win.

Another scenario is if both teams, both consisting of 2 Regenerator pokes each, and all pokes a Toxic'd and/or out of PP. Both player want to continue to switch in order to not lose, and thus becomes endless. I guess this can be under the 2nd scenario on the OP.

Also, theoretically speaking, if you have a team of two Magic Bounce users, both with only Roar or Whirlwind, and your opponent only has 2 Imposters left, you can keep switching and creating an infinite battle that way. This however, only works in unofficial tiers like Balanced Hackmons or Hackmons.

 

[LightningLord2]

Mimicking Ditto's Transform allows an infinite battle as well, provided Mimic was your only move. Keep in mind Transform fails in Gen 1 if the opposing Pokémon is a Ditto.