Imposing Rain (2448 Glicko2)

[Aerra]

After becoming interested in competitive Pokemon earlier this year, I had wanted for awhile to put in some serious ladder attempts. Suspect tests of Landorus and Keldeo put a pause to that, as I was content just knocking out those requirements. However this past week I had the time, and some incentive to try out something that seemed solid on paper.. Yet something that I had never seen used. That's saying a lot if you play enough OU, so I needed to prove that this was indeed viable.

The intention of this team is not to try to cover as many threats as is possible. It's not to conform to any preconceived ideas of what is "needed" when building a team. It's an up-tempo offensive rain team that attempts to achieve and maintain offensive pressure, capitalizing on some of the most imposing threats available.


Politoed - Drizzle | Choice Scarf
252 SpA - 252 Spe - 4 HP | Modest
*Scald
*Ice Beam
*Psychic
*Hidden Power (Bug)

Compulsory but critical, this Politoed variant can be both devastating and annoying. Scald doesn't lose out on many KOs that Surf would allow, and the 1/3 burn chance often means the opponent isn't thrilled about any of their switch-in options. Ice Beam is reasonably potent, and will severely damage those weak to it. Nailing for example, a lead Thundurus-T on an opposing rain team, has been almost commonplace. It's also my best answer to lead Breloom, as maintaining weather is often not a concern (where Breloom is on a weatherless team).

The other two moves are essentially filler. Early in the laddering process I used Perish Song over Psychic, as Baton Pass teams were more of a concern than Toxicroak. Encore would also work. HP Bug is unconventional, but it's been quite the rude awakening to some overconfident Celebi. You could also run HP Grass for Gastrodon.

Overall this 'toed brings a formidable power/speed combination for a weather inducer. It's a decent revenge killer, and very much needed to cripple or kill certain physical threats such as Scizor and non-scarf Terrakion. It's also been important for weakening Keldeo.



Breloom - Technician | Life Orb
252 Atk - 252 Spe - 4 HP | Jolly
*Spore
*Low Sweep
*Bullet Seed
*Mach Punch

Breloom is a nightmare to deal with. As soon as it gets in on something slower, or something that cannot 1HKO it, watch out. The threat of Spore is immense, and if you're predicting a switch to something they want slept, Low Sweep or Bullet Seed will put an end to it.

I don't prefer Focus Sash as my lead is based on prediction, not forced. When I used Breloom months ago I used Focus Punch in lieu of Low Sweep, and that is a viable decision. Low Sweep in my opinion, is even better, allowing you to (at 262 Speed) outpace everything short of Jolteon. Of course Jolteon isn't about to survive a Low Sweep to begin with. It regularly makes a Lati@s or Starmie switch-in an immediate liability.

Sleep is something to exploit this generation, and Breloom is how you do that on an offensive team. What makes it even more important to this team, is that it's an answer to hazard stackers. No team wants more than 1x hazard in play, and Breloom can come in on Ferrothorn, Forretress, etc. and guarantee it stays that way for the time being. Pseudo-hazard control is critical on a team with no spinner.



Ferrothorn - Iron Barbs | Rocky Helmet
252 HP - 48 Def - 208 SpD | Relaxed
*Stealth Rock
*Leech Seed
*Gyro Ball
*Power Whip

As far as defensive pivots go, Ferrothorn in the rain is difficult to equal. I aim to get Stealth Rock down as soon as possible, but if Ferro is not the best switch-in, this team has no qualms about functioning without SR in play.

94 base Attack for such a defensive behemoth is very respectable, especially given how powerful Gyro Ball and Power Whip are. Gyro Ball is wonderful on a host of the metagame's faster threats. Power Whip is at times unexpected, especially after you've shown Gyro, and can take out Tyranitar, Gastrodon, Keldeo, Starmie, Rotom-W, etc.

Leech Seed is a nice way to retain some amount of momentum, and is the only way this Ferrothorn regains HP. It can also be important to compromise some set-up sweepers, including Sub/Charge Beam Magnezone.

I feel the degree to which Rocky Helmet & Iron Barbs punishes physical attacks is underrated. It allows you a turn to Stealth Rock while bringing Outrage users into KO range. Losing 29~% HP for simply attacking is no joke. If you predict Bullet Punch, ExtremeSpeed, even Fake Out, you can switch Ferro in and make it hurt. Ideally they'll die to this, or at times you'll force them to kill themselves along with Ferrothorn on the next turn. It also has a pseudo-spin blocker effect, giving this team a little more control over hazards than you would assume at a glance.



Keldeo-Resolute - Justified | Choice Scarf
252 SpA - 252 Spe - 4 HP | Timid
*Surf
*Secret Sword
*Icy Wind
*Hidden Power (Bug)

Here we go. The best scarf user in OU, and thus best cleaner. The synergy with scarf Politoed is pretty decent as you'll have to deal with two sources of fast water STABs. If one goes down, the other can at times take advantage of what's been weakened.

I again don't bother with Hydro Pump, which is an advantage of running Keldeo in rain as opposed to weatherless or sand. This set needs no explanation, although you'll note again, HP Bug. Without anything boosting it, HP Ghost isn't doing enough to Jellicent.



Jirachi - Serene Grace | Leftovers
252 HP - 108 Def - 148 Spe | Timid
*Substitute
*Calm Mind
*Thunder
*Psyshock

There are no shortage of Jirachi variants, and there's no doubt that something like Shuca Berry + Icy Wind could function well here. But I needed an answer for CM Latias (as well as Alakazam and Reuniclus), and CM Jirachi is that. In rain Jirachi only need fear ground and water attacks, letting it step in and turn the tide (sorry..) against a myriad of attacks. This Jirachi fears Landorus-T and Garchomp, and fortunately that can be an easy prediction, and a prime opportunity for a double switch to something that can threaten them.

Like with Keldeo this is your standard fare. 3/5 para rate on an attack as powerful as Thunder is the main attraction here, there's nothing else like it in the metagame. Psyshock is important as a psychic STAB, 1HKOing Toxicroak, finishing off Breloom, and winning Calm Mind wars.

With any weather team, you try to ride the line of taking advantage of your weather, while still being able to function outside of it. This Jirachi brings this team right against that line. A 70% Thunder is not something you want to rely on, but there are times when you're going to have to cross your fingers a la Focus Blast or 80% moves.



Kyurem-Black - Teravolt | Power Herb
252 Atk - 252 Spe - 4 HP | Adamant
*Substitute
*Outrage
*Fusion Bolt
*Freeze Shock

This is what I was referencing in the first paragraph. It isn't used, isn't considered, and I don't know why. I'll try to be concise with my rationale. Substitute takes advantage of Kyurem's natural bulk. You can then go offensive, or for a more stall-oriented approach. As far as going offensive, this is where it's at in my opinion. Freeze Shock blows right through a lot of things that an uninvested Ice Beam would only dream of. Celebi, Gastrodon, Ferrothorn, and more. Anything that doesn't resist it is either going to be dead or significantly compromised. That it badly dents Ferro is very important, the only question is how much prior damage is needed -if you're playing seriously, you can run the calculation and estimate how much Defense you're up against.

Freeze Shock allows for a more precise style of play; something more powerful than Outrage, where you can immediately switch out or change attacks.. It's pretty awesome. You can find a bit more about this set here. Essentially, it comes down to Life Orb being too destructive with such hazard concerns + Substitute, and Leftovers not having enough of an impact for a wallbreaker.


Thanks for reading through all of this. I'm pretty satisfied that it didn't take much time to complete a competitive ladder run. Although I didn't anticipate it taking 43 games to get through provisional status, that's how it can go if you get too high too early.

This composition isn't perfect. While Breloom resists, there's no ground immunity. No spinner or Magic Bounce. No direct check to physical threats/fighting types as Landorus-T was on a previous incarnation. Yet I think I've explained how this team is able to work around these facts, at least to some legitimate degree.

Any thoughts would be welcome. Thanks again!

 

[Aerra]

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-54680940
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-54690462

I chose a couple replays, not because they show this team at its best. They're a couple examples of when things aren't going well, that it can be pretty resilient.

Anyway, in practice the most troublesome thing I faced was Gliscor + water immunity. Usually either Jellicent or Gastrodon; that combination curiously kept repeating high on the ladder. Because both Politoed and Keldeo are choiced, Protect on Gliscor makes it impossible to kill. Fortunately Bullet Seed from Breloom was able to muscle through most of the time. If you can get Kyurem-B in safely, he can also wallbreak the core –just be sure not to waste Freeze Shock, don't throw it at a Protect.

Conkeldurr has the potential to have a field day with this team, as the way it deals with such threats is either weakening it and dying to revenge kill or 1HKOing. Drain Punch can shrug that strategy off.. Fortunately bulky physical attackers who can restore large amounts of HP are rare.

I have no Keldeo check, hoping that what I have in at the time is not critical and can take their Keldeo <50% for mine to finish it off. This is far from ideal, but answering offense with offense does work.

 

[Fanfir]

Why not run HP grass on toad instead to deal with jellicent + gastrodon. I've tried using your team and out of 10 battles celebi only appeared once.

 

[Aerra]

Why not run HP grass on toad instead to deal with jellicent + gastrodon. I've tried using your team and out of 10 battles celebi only appeared once.

You absolutely can, I included that. Looking at the 1850 statistics from September though, Celebi was at 9.5% usage; Gastrodon was just less than half that. HP Grass from scarf Politoed isn't breaking through Jellicent unless it's already weakened, but that is also a plus.

 

[Aerra]

I guess I'll use this as my one-time bump. I thought this would get some reaction to the use of Freeze Shock, but again any thoughts would be appreciated.

It's stressful laddering at this point as one crit or unfortunate match-up could drop you a ways; I did manage to get sandwiched between seasons. He and Costa (RS) have quite the monopoly high on the OU ladder, it's impressive. I'm glad this team even made it near them as the 5th gen concludes.

 

[Electrolyte]

Hey man, cool team. It looks fairly solid, and has a great ranking to back it up. Nice work.

The most prominent problem I can see here is a bit of unhealthy repetition. You noted yourself that this was intentional; however, I think it is giving your team some extra trouble that it can do without. Reliance on DualScarfToed/Pony in order to deal most of the damage to your opponent is a solid strategy, but needs to be backed up with teammates that can easily deal with and defeat opponents that would wall Rain spam, and this is where your team can improve, in my opinion. Anti-Rain Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Toxicroak and Jellicent all post significant threats to this team, as well as most Grass-types in general, like Celebi or opposing Brelooms. Also, because your two powerhouses are choiced and scarfed, defensive teams will find it very easy to dodge your attacks with smart switches and wear you down with hazards you cannot spin away. Grass-types on Sun teams such as Venasaur are also a huge threat because Politoed really doesn't last very long when it's choiced- as shown by your battles. Defensively, your team also has a major problem handling Fighting-types of any kind, whom can spam unresisted, powerful moves against your team.

Politoed @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Def
Bold / Drizzle
~Scald
~Toxic
~Perish Song
~Ice Beam

In my opinion, one thing you really must do for your team is make Politoed bulky. This might sound really generic to you but ScarfToed really isn't pulling its weight and leaving your team at a huge disadvantage against stall teams and hyper offensive teams that need to be countered by a defensive sponge. Also, you're not even really using ScarfToed to its full potential; Scarf Scald is terribly weak and can not serve any purpose other than hindering SpDef Jirachi or Tyranitar from switching in directly, which is something the latter would never do anyway. Politoed's speed is largely unnecessary for the team; instead, it needs bulk to outlast Sun, cripple stall, and sponge Fighting-type attacks as well as force out opposing sweepers. Scald is still relatively the same power as it was even with your ScarfToed, and serves largely the same purpose in burning and crippling switch-ins. Toxic punishes Jellicent / Latios, Perish Song prevents you from being setup bait, and Ice Beam hits the occasional Celebi / Dragon switch in. Its new bulk gives you a very useful tool to stop Choice Scarf Terrakion and Sub Toxicroak from running your team to the ground.

So you've lost part of your rain offense, but that doesn't mean your team is necessarily weakened in anyway. Still, I'd suggest that you change Keldeo's Surf to Hydro Pump, mainly because you really need that extra power, especially against Sun teams, who will be able to shrug off Sun-weakened Surfs. Although it's not as accurate, increased power is more favorable for your team, especially in cases where you don't lose the weather war and lose your Rain boost. This really makes up for a general lack of power on your team.

Another thing I would strongly suggest is to replace Freeze Shock / Power Herb on Kyurem with Ice Beam / Leftovers and a Hasty nature. Sun is really an asshole to your team, as are Grass-types, too, so Kyurem really really needs to be able to handle them at all times. Freeze Shock is a powerful move and all but it's really only 1 time use, as using it again would lock you in for a turn and lose a lot of momentum. Ice Beam is definitely better in that it still provides powerful Ice-type coverage that can be used multiple times without any consequence in order to handle Grass-type walls and Chlorophyll Sun sweepers that no other Pokemon on your team can handle. Another great thing about this change is that it gives Kyurem much needed Leftovers, making it last longer and letting it set up more subs, come in to tank more special hits, and deal more lasting damage against your opponents. The hasty nature gives it added speed whilst taking into account the need for higher Special Attack.

Another thing I would recommend is making Jirachi slightly more specially bulky as opposed to physically bulky. You lack switch-ins to powerful Draco spam, and LO Latias / Latios would just rip this team apart. A spread of 252 HP / 184 SpDef / 68 Spe Calm. You lose some speed but you're still fast enough to outspeed SpDef Celebi and finish it off to prevent Perish Song. The added special bulk will help when you urgently need something to handle a raging Alakazam or Latios.


One last thing you can do to give yourself an edge against stall and other teams in general is to try Swords Dance / Leftovers Breloom over Low Sweep / Life Orb. Low Sweep is relatively unnecessary as your team can handle most Breloom switch-ins quite well (Jirachi handles most of them easily) and Jirachi's Thunder paralysis will do enough of a job of slowing down opponents. Swords Dance, on the other hand, provides Breloom (and your team) with a boosting move- and a way to power up in the face of weak yet bulky stall teams and then crush them. Swords Dance also easily makes up for lack of Life Orb, letting Loom run Leftovers, not only making it last longer but also not cutting its sweeps short. Swords Dance Mach Punch hits like a truck and can easily serve as a backup cleaning strategy should Keldeo fail.

That's all I have for now. Nice team.

 

[Aerra]

Hey, thanks for the response. While you considered changes to 5/6 Pokemon, at least none were changed outright lol. I feel I would be most receptive to defensive Politoed and Swords Dance Breloom. Both are standard sets for a reason, and I've used them both in the past.

Full investment for Politoed actually does convert a bunch of 3HKOs to 2. Perhaps most importantly Scizor and Conkeldurr. You can't let these two set up -Conkeldurr in particular needs to go down in two turns or it becomes a serious threat to this team.

As a generic example, you have a decent chance to 2HKO Mew before it can Baton Pass something, or hit you with a boosted attack. No way that will happen when uninvested. Metagross takes similar damage. Bronzong goes from 3 to 4HKO without the punch behind Scald. There's even a chance you don't 1-shot Specs Chandelure in rain. Yikes. 252+ Ice Beam even takes out offensive Latias in two hits, guaranteed after SR, and scarf lets you outspeed for the kill. I could go on to Garchomp, Terrakion, Espeon, Volcarona, and Victini, but I think it's obvious what 252+nature does for damage. As far as the speed being unnecessary, it'll outspeed everything listed here, up to Gengar. And Gengar is quite relevant as it's a 56% chance to 1HKO after SR, and outspeeding doesn't allow Gengar to KO you or Disable your Scald.

Oh, and lest I forget: 252+ SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 268-316 (102.29 - 120.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO. I can't tell you how satisfying this has been.


Frankly I don't know how people ladder while relying on 70-80% moves. Whenever I've tried Hydro, within just a few games I've regretted it. Especially for scarf Keldeo in rain, consistency is at a premium.

As far as Ice Beam on Kyurem helping combat sun teams, it doesn't even 1HKO Venusaur. This Kyurem, while having valuable grass/electric/water resistances, typically only comes in once, at most twice, and wallbreaks. I have almost never felt the desire to get up one more Substitute than he can without Leftovers; typically they either can break it initially or not and Kyurem will use that one Substitute to crush whatever check they brought in. Freeze Shock can do too much in my opinion.. Anything that doesn't resist it is about done. 140 BP, STAB, off of fully invested 170 Atk. Hasty nature would also be unfortunate in taking that one Mach Punch when near full HP, ExtremeSpeed, etc.

If I was going to do anything with Jirachi's EVs/nature, it would likely be to increase Def, not SpD. On this team Jirachi will at times need to eat some Close Combats, Mach Punches, Drain Punches, etc. I've won a few matches recently using Jirachi to step in on predicted choice-Secret Swords from Keldeo. I think his ability to take such attacks is really emphasized here, probably moreso than if he was on any other team. Draco spam hasn't been an issue with both Ferro and Jirachi, but I do realize special bulk would safeguard that further. Absorbing physical/fighting attacks is just too important here.

Swords Dance is a strong choice for Breloom, but I can't agree with Leftovers. Its bulk is just too weak to make much use of it. I would go with Lum Berry before Lefties to switch into potential burns with impunity. That said, I feel LO-Low Sweep is simply too much to pass on. Enormous immediate power and utility in one move. Months ago I was using Toxicroak instead of 'Loom -Low Sweep is reminiscent of Drain Punch after a Swords Dance; teams that don't have a counter just melt in horror. The utility of the speed drop gives this team some much-needed speed control. Politoed is a slow scarf user, Jirachi is fairly slow without full investment, KyuB only sits at 95 Speed and uses Adamant here. Aside from Keldeo, this team needs some help outpacing the opponent, and Low Sweep is a beautiful answer.

I've written a lot, so I'll try to wrap this up. I don't quite understand your point about Ferro, Rotom-W, Toxi, Jellicent, Celebi, and Breloom. Of these only Rotom-W and Breloom have proven to be threats - Breloom can be a bitch unless you use something rather specific to counter it. I'm not willing to do that here, but Politoed, Jirachi, and Breloom itself (Jolly helps) have been enough in my experience. You need to know when to just leave that slept 'toed in to eat a Focus Punch, rather than go to Jirachi and have that check crippled. That's pretty much a worst-case scenario, but that will often limit Breloom to one kill. And since Breloom is often used on weatherless, Politoed still made a significant contribution.

Rotom-W is something you need to wear down, or predict and 2HKO with Secret Sword from Keldeo. Where Rotom has come in on a Scald, at times I'll stay in predicting Will-o-Wisp and use Scald again, taking another small (but helpful) chunk of damage and fishing for a burn. This is riskier than simply going to Ferrothorn, but it's a nice option if you're looking to retain momentum.

I didn't mean to rebut so much of what you had to say, but these are my honest feelings after having played a lot with this and similar compositions. I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Tesung]

This team deserves more rates, it is really cool. I had similar troubles with my team, it feels like people only rate the shitty teams. Honestly, it's a really good team so I don't have too many suggestions, I use kyube with ice beam/fusion bolt/earth power, invested in special attack more, which I would recommend trying, but your kyube is pretty cool and underrated to by all means keep it. Also, I would say one hp bug is enough, celebi isn't that big of an issue that you need two lures. I agree that hpump is unnecessary on rain keldeo (although it can be nice to spam.). I would take it off toed and use encore. It is an awesome answer to calm minders, especially if rachi goes down. Other than that, I could see taking off a stab and putting twave on ferrothorn for a nice paralysis core with rachi, which really helps out sub kyurem b, but I Gus's that makes you weaker to dragons or weaker to gastrodon and shit. I would also recommend that you keep scarftoed, I think that it is it's best set right now. Also, 236 speed is all kyube needs to outrun neutral lucario, toxicroak, so I would go down to 236 speed and 216 attack to create 101 hp subs, and it hits hard enough as is. It would also be nice to put hydro pump on toed, I could see it over psychic as u already have rachis psyshock for toxicroak, which is it's only target. Hope I helped. Also, about that last guys post, rotom loses to breloom, is setup fodder for rachi, is sub fodder for kyube (although nothing switched in to wow) and ferrothorn is a counter. Also, keep low sweep breloom, it is underrated, and when does sd loom ever really sweep? It is walled by way too many things due to shitty coverage, keep your breloom.

 

[Aerra]

Thanks Tesung, these are some nuanced things you brought up.

2x HP Bug may seem like an overreaction, but it was more to do with not having a better option. You can mess around with Politoed's - Encore/Perish Song is a useful choice, you just can't change water STAB + Ice Beam. Since you have flexibility, Hydro Pump should be mentioned, but I wouldn't use it as your primary water attack.

I've wanted to use Thunder Wave, but the synergy with Gyro Ball is just awful. Also, taking either STAB off Ferro would surrender more momentum than I'm comfortable with. This team needs Power Whip for example, when Keldeo comes in and can't 1HKO with SS.

You can play around with Kyurem's EVs a bit, an obvious target being 52 HP for those 101 HP Subs. Go with whatever you're comfortable with. Blissey/Chansey attract Breloom more so, but that won't always be an option.

 

[Honus]

This team is really annoyed by opposing Keldeo, I can see a few ways to play around it but nothing on this team is really going to like taking a secret sword, especially from Specs, or Expert Belt with corresponding Surf/Hpump coverage. I also really see some problems with Agility + 3 Atk Thundurus, it can set itself up for a sweep pretty easily as it only has to weaken Ferro and Kyurem B a little, as Jirachi can't take it down before Jirachi itself gets beaten. Obviously you can play around this but a scrupulous opponent could exploit this hole pretty easily if he wanted to. I'd honestly consider running A specially defensive Celebi over Jirachi. I think you can substract the Jira from this team and still have a considerable amount of offensive power, plus you already have a steel in ferrothorn. SpDef Celebi can take on Keldeo 1 on 1, although HP Bug is definitely dangerous, having 4 water resists [well one is breloom], you can play around it a lot easier. Plus Celebi/Kyurem-B can probably take out any type of Thundurus-T that threatens your team. SpDef Celebi can also beat Reuni and Sub CM Jirachi via Perish Song which can help out the team. Aside from that, I'd also really consider changing your Kyurem-B set to the standard LO Roost with [dragon move] and Fusion Bolt. I feel like this set is superior to the one you're running if youre not running CB. With no spinner Kyurem will only get a few switchins with hazards up, and you have no ability to heal him. I mean honestly if you aren't going CB, LO Roost does a fine job of doing damage while retaining bulk, especially versus stall oriented teams. So yeah I'd essentially just run LO roost since you basically lose your Ice STAB after one Freeze Shock which can kinda suck vs. certain mons, although if you're perfectly content with that but still want to run the LO Roost variant, then you can throw substitute over ice beam. I'm a little biased against your Breloom set; I think that Sash SD is excellent on Rain teams, especially SpecsToed/Scarf Keld comboes because it will lure in Latios, Celebi, Latias, etc and threaten to weaken them or shut them down with spore [sans the new sleep talk latios's] so you can just wreak havoc with those 2 later into the game, and regular SD gives a ton of offensive power, potentially winning games vs offense or stall, but if you really think thats the best Breloom set for you, then by all means keep it.

Sets:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 208 SDef / 20 Spd
Calm Nature
- Psychic
- U-Turn
- Recover
- Perish Song

Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Terravolt
EVs: 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Outrage/ Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam
- Roost

 

[Aerra]

Keldeo can be played around to a degree when everything except Jirachi resists water. Like I mentioned, I think if taking Secret Sword is the concern, the answer is increasing Jirachi's defense.

While Agility Thundurus-T is one of the biggest threats to this team, using Celebi makes Tornadus -or any Hurricane user, an even bigger one. Alakazam (Signal Beam), Tyranitar, and dragon types are now more of an issue. While Celebi can force CM Latias out, Jirachi can set-up and sweep. Giving up Thunder in general would be rough; one of this team's strengths is how effortlessly it can take out bulky water types.

Celebi will make you feel better about Thundy-T, Breloom, and Keldeo, so I don't mean to totally write the suggestion off. But even here with Nasty Plot>HP Ice, Spore, and HP Bug, it's not surefire.

I think Substitute is more valuable than Roost on Kyurem-B; I assume the 56 EVs in HP are a mistake given no Sub. Also in my experience, the better players are often prepared for lead Breloom, making it less effective.

 

[sugarhigh]

I guess I'll use this as my one-time bump. I thought this would get some reaction to the use of Freeze Shock, but again any thoughts would be appreciated.

It's stressful laddering at this point as one crit or unfortunate match-up could drop you a ways; I did manage to get sandwiched between seasons. He and Costa (RS) have quite the monopoly high on the OU ladder, it's impressive. I'm glad this team even made it near them as the 5th gen concludes.

I just gotta say jewseasons isnt seasons xD its tng24, seasons isnt even in the top 25 there -.-

 

[Aerra]

Thanks for the clarification, I suspected that wasn't qSeasons, but I didn't know how else to reference them lol.

Edit: This is the last I saw of the ladder before things were reset.. See you guys on the other side!

 

[Takion]

Hello Mate,

Just a small nitpick. For Breloom, I would change Life Orb and test out Fist Plate instead. This helps Breloom's Duration. I would also switch Low Sweep With Focus Punch, as this allows you to beat and hurt a lot of Significant threats. For example,

252 Atk Fist Plate Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 295-348 (73.01 - 86.13%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Fist Plate Breloom Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 177-208 (58.8 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Mix that in with Mach punch and this allows you to kill the Pokemon. In my opinion, Breloom is the answer to most stall.

To sum it up:

@Fist Plate
Jolly Nature

Spore
Bullet Seed
Mach Punch
Focus Punch

​

Let me know how it tests out. Cheers.

 

[Aerra]

Low Sweep + Bullet Seed/Low Sweep with LO covers about the same ground. While it would be nice to not lose the 20% HP, the 30% loss in Bullet Seed damage is worse when trying to power through some targets. Reuniclus, Celebi, Gliscor, Landorus-T, and Conkeldurr are a few that come to mind.

Focus Punch largely disappears as an option after Spore gives you the opening, and I already have a similar thing going on with Kyurem. So I prefer the consistent power, but thanks for the idea.

I should mention I don't think it's a surprise Low Sweep was increased out of Technician's range for X/Y; it's that good at 90 base power.

 

[Martos]

Hey! I tried using this team myself. I'm really not that good of a player only hanging around 1600s in pokemon showdown, but i really like rain teams and wanted to ask you some questions.
Since someone already mentioned making politoed bulky type, I'll skip that. So Kyurem-Black. Kyu-B really helps out killing something that needs to be gone fast with that power herb freeze shock, or outrage, but its really hard to switch into him when opponent uses stealth rock, doing lots of damage on him for nothing; I feel like its hard to run him when there's no rapid spin on the team. I hear few suggestions from my opponents saying Kyurem-B doesnt fit into the team so I thought of posting it here to hear more justification and thought process of putting him in this team.

and this one is really just a question/suggestion rather than critique, but what do you think of using iron head on Jirachi instead of psyshock to abuse the serene grace? cuz politoed has psychic too.

 

[Aerra]

Hey, thanks for giving this a try. Getting Kyurem in safely is one of the trickier parts of using this team. With Spore/offensive pressure, multiple hazards should be somewhat uncommon --but as you say even SR alone is a problem. It's why LO is too reckless, and choice items too dangerous (predict wrong and you'll have to come in again to be effective).

I had previously used Landorus-T in Kyurem's spot, and as you might imagine it was a good fit. That said, I do think Kyurem works quite well here. Especially with Freeze Shock, he's a major threat to rain-stoppers like Gastrodon and Celebi. Combined with Fusion Bolt, an elite coverage move, this makes Kyurem about as scary as it gets to most anything that threatens rain. You begin to want to face something like Jellicent. If Kyurem fails due to prediction or facing an unexpected set, you still have Breloom and Jirachi to take on rain counters.. So there's room for error (read: misfortune), and a lot for the opposition to deal with.

Psyshock is critical in winning Calm Mind wars, as well as taking out Toxicroak, Breloom, Gengar, Venusaur, and more. Relying on Politoed alone with its poor bulk and vulnerable typing to use Psychic without STAB is sketchy. I dislike Iron Head hax, and figured an uninvested attack that isn't boosted by CM would be too often useless.

If you want to take further advantage of Serene Grace here, it's Water Pulse; you could either drop Substitute or Psyshock. If you drop Psyshock you'll want to change HP Bug on Politoed to Perish Song/Encore.

Anyway, in my experience this composition is a lock to hit 2000+ ACRE, and 2100-2200 should be somewhat regular.. At least that held true when B/W was the current generation. If you're still not comfortable with Kyurem, give Landorus-T a shot. Good luck!