Hydreigon Discussion: Viability in BW2

[Schpoonman]

There's the matter that nothing in UU can take a hit from Hydreigon. Absolutely nothing. The only thing that comes close is Snorlax but he's smoked by Superpower. This is a different scenario than in OU where Hydreigon has several sets and each of them have different counters. One set, the Mixed Attacker set, is unwallable in UU. It's not a matter of it 2HKOing every, it's a matter of it OHKOing almost everything and 2HKOing the rest. If, and only if, those Pokemon get in safely, then yes, Hydreigon will be forced out. But they are all OHKOd on the switch. Are you really going to instantly switch Mienshao in when you see Hydreigon? You get OHKOd by LO Fire Blast.And what if it's a Substitute set? You lose your one offensive check? Unless you're running Scarfed Heracross, Scarf Flygon, AND Mienshao, well then you just dedicated half your team to making sure one Pokemon didn't run wild.

Hydreigon would go BL faster than Chansey did.

 

[Gary]

I wish we could continue this UU discussion, but we're getting a bit off topic now. Make sure to talk about Hydreigon in OU, not UU.

 

[Grey Knight]

Well it dropped UU in PO i think some months ago but they called broken probaply because its speed is not that bad for uu standarts.

 

[PDC]

Hydreigon is a very interesting Pokemon, and considering it has basically no counters, only checks, it can be used on a various amount of teams. It has an amazing movepool with rather solid defensive stats for what it is, and amazing offense. It can preform as a Scarfer, Specs User, or Mixed sweeper to name a few roles, and its variability as a wall-breaker and sweeper is amazing. It basically has access to the strongest Draco Meteor in all of OU, and it puts it to good use. However, it does have some down-falls, but its not like they're all that horrible. Sure, Mach Punch Breloom and the prevalence of fighting types hurt it a lot in the metagame, but that doesn't mean it is completely un-viable. Its speed is also a bit SubPar in the fast paced offensive metagame, and because of the previous demand for a Landorus-I and Keldeo counter, its usage dipped even more, which was quite easy to see. Do I think Hydreigon is a great Pokemon? Yes, but at the moment I think Latias and Latios are overall better dragons at the moment for much more roles. Hydreigon can't act as a bulky tank, which is so demanding nowadays.

Its viability in OU will surely rise again if Keldeo gets banned as an offensive dragon which has amazing coverage. Draco Meteor + Fire Blast + U-Turn is amazing coverage + momentum in one. It also can hit the pink blobs exceptionally hard, which is an amazing bonus. I remember I used a core of StallBreaker Mew + Specs Hydreigon to break up defensive teams rather easily. If this thing drops to UU, it will surely be overpowered. Nothing in the tier at the moment even compares this this thing in power, and considering it has a lot better speed tier in UU, it would make the situation entirely worse.

 

[spooky96]

Its viability in OU will surely rise again if Keldeo gets banned

I really doubt this, because basically this generation is dominated by fast-offensive mons. So many out speed it and easily OHKO it - Alakazam, Latias (Offensive variants), Latios, Terrakion, Salamance, Infernape, Garchomp, Thundurus-T, Volcarona, Gengar etc.
Removing one thing out of 100s won't get you any where really.

 

[Schpoonman]

Alakazam, Thundurus, and Gengar are all less than stellar answers to Hydreigon because they all rely on Focus Blast for the OHKO.

 

[Oddish is the best]

Hydreigon is actually pretty good. I use the Expert Belt set on my DragMag team and it works really well. The main reason it doesn't get used as much though is probably because most teams don't carry as many dragons as DragMag teams do and Hydreigon just faces a lot of competition at the roles it does from Salamence,Lat@s, and Garchomp. It does differentiate itself as the best wall breaking dragon which is useful and is actually pretty good but I understand why people pass on the hydra a lot.

 

[Siggu]

Mentioning a late 18th century economist in a Pokémon forum seems weird, but David Ricardo's thoughts that only specialization is viable SO fitting on Hydreigon it's not funny

Other than it's inconvenient typing, Hydreigon's problem is that it's not specialized. It's fast, it's powerful, it's bulky, it has an amazing movepool, BUT it's not fast enough, it's not as powerful as other pokémon, it's not bulky enough to compensate for the former, and its amazing type coverage is filled with unreliable or otherwise-weak moves (Draco Meteor and Superpower lower stats, Fire Blast, Focus Blast and Stone Edge -I know no one uses it, of course- are not very accurate, Dragon Pulse is a lot weaker than Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse does not provide anything other moves do in terms of coverage, Earthquake runs on its lower and generally-uninvested Attack, Head Smash has a lot of recoil, Acrobatics forces you to use a Flying Gem, etc.). It may not have counters, but it has checks ad infinitum

Then you have pokémon like Latios, who is Pursuit-weak and Hidden Power-reliant but stronger and much faster, Dragonite, who is bulkier and has a better defensive typing -Ice weakness aside-, Salamence, who is more dangerous when going mixed, and Kyurem-B, who is even bulkier than Dragonite -Not considering Multiscale- yet has 65 more base Attack and 5 less base Special Attack than Hydreigon and has a somewhat more convenient typing

Hydreigon may be in a similar situation to Metagross: Jack of all trades, master of none

I used Mixed Hydreigon in early BW2 just to test it (This reason tends to be why I don't have a single completely serious team for more than a month). It worked quite well at that moment except for the fact I was using LO Mixed in a Sand team so it was worn down with extreme ease :P

 

[Specter Pro]

Hydreigon may be in a similar situation to Metagross: Jack of all trades, master of none

I consider this odd seeing as Hydreigon is arguably the best Wallbreaker in the OU Metagame.. and maybe the entire game.

 

[Gary]

I consider this odd seeing as Hydreigon is arguably the best Wallbreaker in the OU Metagame.. and maybe the entire game.

No Siggu has a point. Hydreigon can pull off pretty much every set out there and be successful at it, but it faces a LOT of competition from every set. Choice Scarf? Latios and Salamence. Choice Specs? Latios. Substitute set? Kyurem-B. Mixed Wall breaking set? Kyurem-B. Honestly, the presence of Kyurem-B has taken a huge damper on Hydreigon's one true niche as an outstanding Mixed wall breaker, and while he's still very good at it, Kyurem-B is arguably better because of it only have 5 less SpA, and a whopping 170 base attack. He is indeed a jack of all trades, master of none.

 

[Sam]

Stats aren't the be-all end all of pokemon, though. Hydreigon still reliably gets past some walls that mixed kyu-b can have trouble with (and I say this as a user of both). As a pure wallbreaker I would still definitely use Hydreigon. Kyu-B is better used as a late game cleaner. So I'd say Hydreigon still has the 'specialization' as the best wallbreaker in the tier. Of course, wallbreaker isn't as important as a late-game cleaner on a lot of teams, but it still has a somewhat substantial role to fill and it is not by any means bad. Suffice to say, Hydreigon's presence on significant number of teams makes the team itself better.

 

[Specter Pro]

I see his point - Hydra does have plenty of competition - but as far as Wallbreaking capabilities go, isn't it best? Isn't it harder to switch into than Kyu-B? I mean it has that coverage in 4 Moves to break through practically anything while Kyu-B can be dealt with by something no matter what it runs. While it does not have his insane power Hydreigon still boasts outstanding coverage to make up for it.

 

[spooky96]

You know...even for wall breaking, Salamance actually outclasses him by its mixed set of - Outrage, Draco, Fire Blast and Earthquake. In my experience, even Infernape has been more handy for me than Hydreigon. The only time when Hydriegon was actually helpful for me is when it was paired up with Toxicorak, as we know Toxiroak can't take Psychic or Ground moves, so Hydreigon was the perfect partner, but even in this case, Latios did a better job.

I don't hate Hydreigon, it is literally one of the most unfortunate Pokemon. It can gape holes in many things at a time, but it just lacks to brutally murder things at a time.

 

[Sir Tommy]

I like Hydreigon, but that doesn't mean I'll be nice with my posting. Hydreigon has really nice stats and one of the most diverse movepools there is, the only thing that I dislike about Hydreigon is it's speed. I mean, it can be outclassed by Salamence, while Salamence can speed tie with a lot of things in OU, well things that are base 100, Hydreigon lacks it, I mean don't get me wrong, Hydreigon can do work and it's not 4x weak to Ice Shard. Jirachi can barely touch Hydreigon, nor can Celebi bar HP Ice, but that still will not be enough to stop Hydreigon. I think Hydreigon is up there on the list for top OU mons, but it can be outclassed by Salamence in some cases, but they both have their advantages and disadvantages, Hydreigon is harder to use in most cases because of its speed mainly, it's more for revenge killing and scaring out things I would say rather than sweeping. I don't really know any Hydreigon sets, but I do like Hydreigon with LO, it's a force to be reckoned with. Hydreigon can also handle hazards well and switch in on the very common Earthquake. Using Hydreigon requires a lot of skill to use, I would personally use Salamence over Hydreigon though, it's more for personal reasons because of the petty speed difference.

 

[PDC]

lol salamence

Salamence is honestly not very good in this metagame, just face it. Yeah it was really cool and overpowered in Gen 4 and for a short time it was decently popular this Generation, but I just don't "like" Salamence that much to be perfectly honest. It is a worse wallbreaker than Hydreigon by far. It lacks Superpower, a stronger Fire Blast and Draco Meteor, and U-Turn is also working in Hydreigon's favor in gaining momentum. Hydreigon is also pretty decent hazard wise, as it is not weak to Stealth Rock like Salamence is, which allows it to use U-Turn to an even better extent. Hydreigon is useful in a lot of situations, don't say it is only useful in small niche positions. It is A Rank for a reason, it may be a little slow and vulnerable to quite a bit of threats in todays metagame, but there are really no counters to Hydreigon, only checks. You can really capitalize this and use Hydreigon's nuking power to full ability. It works great with Terrakion and fighting types, yes, but I also like to use Hydreigon in pairs with more defensive Pokemon sometimes. I have used Hydreigon paired with Stall Breaker Mew, Reuniclus, and Xatu and they all do very well.

 

[Specter Pro]

Hydreigon is B+ Rank in Viability, not A. Although there was talk of moving it up at some point, a debate rather. But eh... anyway I've always been iffy on that argument that MixMence is better.. I mean for one thing they play a bit differently with Mence having to lock itself into Outrage to defeat certain Pokemon - something that seems like a bad idea for a Wallbreaker that relies on it's ability to switch up Moves to do it's job - and Hydra has access to Superpower and a more powerful Draco Meteor... but I don't have too much familiarity with that Salamence Set...

 

[Gary]

Let me make this clear. Do NOT talk about Hydreigon's ranking in the OU Viability ranking thread as any kind of support to your argument. It's completely irrelevant to the topic itself, and a saying that Pokemon X is better because it's a higher ranking then Pokemon Y, is a shitty argument. Don't use it, or your post will be deleted.