Pet Mod Hoenn Gaiden [Pet Mod of the Season]

[Paulluxx]

Banner by Albatross
Approved by Pet Mods Staff
Hoenn Gaiden
​

What is this?
Hoenn Gaiden is a Gen 3 pet mod that aims to devamp Gen 4-9 Pokemon, moves and items into the Gen 3 mechanics, while also buffing weaker Pokemon from Gen 3 to create a unique, but still distinctly Gen 3, metagame.

Project Directors
Paulluxx (Tier Leader)
Rezzo (Lead Coder)
Lord Zorz
bynum
ViZar
Yoshiblaze

>>Changelog<<
>>Old Thread<<​

 

[Rezzo]

What is Hoenn Gaiden?​

Welcome! Hoenn Gaiden is a Pet Mods format centred around gen 3 battle mechanics, and it is loosely based off of the tier of ADV OU as a reference point. Because of this, Hoenn Gaiden is a tier which strongly resembles ADV OU, but with some key notable additions + minor changes. Hoenn Gaiden, on top of its gen 3 engine, provides access to new custom content, such as buffed gen 3 Pokemon, later generation Pokemon, and even buffed later generation Pokemon. There are also a small few notable new attacks and new items as well that have been added to the mod as bonus content.

Okay cool, but what IS Hoenn Gaiden???​

In a simple catch-all phrase, it's a hyper-charged ADV OU. It is the "platonic ideal of pet mods" (Ema Skye), it is the "Project M of competitive Pokemon" (DkKoba), it is "crazy" (kiru_dakas).

Hoenn Gaiden has been formed from initial parts of a for-fun pet mod. Initially, a now long-faded userbase had added Pokemon that people thought would be nice to experience in gen 3, without much in the way of testing these experiments out. However, over time, the mod started to take itself really seriously; a few heads bashed together to start tidying up the experience and gen-3-ifiying the tier to keep it feeling primarily like ADV, rather than a tier which has been upgraded to a later generation tier with custom content.

And thus, we have ourselves current Hoenn Gaiden. It includes (at the time of writing) 15 slates worth of new content, now with hundreds of changes all outlined in the spreadsheet changelog in the OP. This is a tier where you can experience the raw power of Pokemon like Zapdos-Galar in generation 3, or maybe you'd prefer to see what a pure water + weather immune Cloyster is capable of? There are many changes and many new things to explore in deviation to ADV OU over here.

Generally speaking, there are two types of submissions that exist with in this mod (and a bonus category), and two camps of philosophical design stemming from this as a result:

1. Custom additions.
These are slated designs which stray away from the original design of the Pokemon to make something that fits the Hoenn Gaiden metagame in its own unique way. You'll see these kinds of additions exist as an example in the form of Sylveon (who is now a dragon type glass cannon), Parasect (who is now a fast bug/ghost type) and Deoxys (which has received a reduction to its base stats). As you can tell, this affects current and new Pokemon in the mod alike.

2. Devamped additions.
These are Pokemon which take the pure design of the later-generation Pokemon and adjust it to be more 'gen-3-like'. This includes Pokemon like Silvally, Jellicent and Golurk which otherwise are identical to their later-generation counterparts, but with movepool adjustments to make them make sense in the context of the 3rd generation. For example, Silvally gains access to moves such as Secret Power and Mimic, moves which are universal in gen 3, but it loses access to moves such as Signal Beam and Heat Wave seeing as there is no logical way for Silvally to obtain these attacks in an actual gen 3 environment.

3. Bonus additions.
This covers a vast array of categories and is mostly now a philosophy which the mod's community is no longer interested in exploring as it causes inconsistencies in previous knowledge to newer players (something which the battle simulator cannot account for on behalf of the player). It includes features such as new items, new (non-signature abilities), and movepool adjustments to existing OU-viable Pokemon. I regard these to be 'bonus' as the remaining parts of this have been mostly welcomed by the community, bar some slightly polarising additions.

How can I start playing this Pet Mod?
​

Hop onto the Dragon Heaven server, hop onto our Discord server, load up some sample teams! We have a relatively active playerbase that would be happy to talk you through the tier and offer some practice games.

Server which hosts Hoenn Gaiden
Discord Server
Sample teams listed below [todo!]

-----

That's about it for the introduction, if there are any other questions feel free to shoot em my way or to any other council members. Have fun!

-----

Submissions: how do they work, and what is (and isn't) allowed?
​

Historically, this mod has taken the approach of running 'slates' in order to introduce new Pokemon into Hoenn Gaiden. A theme would be suggested by the slate-runner, and users would submit whatever fits the theme. Users would then cast votes on their favourite submissions and these would then be added into the mod. Through trial and error and quite a lot of historical data to back things up, there are some rules that are adhered to when a slate is ran for Pokemon, and they are as follows:

1. The Pokemon must at least somewhat resemble its original design.
Basically, this means that a custom Pokemon shouldn't stray too far away from its design. Submitting Ferrothorn as a Fighting/Flying glass cannon for example wouldn't be permitted, but a steel/fighting ferrothorn with similar stats to its base design would be considered fine. Pokemon have historically gained attacks to fit their STAB profile, and as the mod has developed I have gently nudged people away from doing this and to instead try to work with the limitations behind the mod's available resources. This is only gen 3 after all..!

2. Signature moves and abilities are permitted to be brought down to Hoenn Gaiden.
This just means that stuff like Chatter for Chatot can be submitted, or Comatose for Komala, as they are a defining part of the Pokemon's design.

3. Certain attacks, abilities and stat distributions should be justified.
Certain moves, signature moves, abilities, and stat patterns are straight-up pre-vetoed, and these are:
Abilities: Magic Guard, Wonder Guard, Arena Trap, Shadow Tag, Magnet Pull, Sand Stream, Snow Warning, Drizzle, Drought, Desolate Land.
Moves: Tail Glow, Psycho Boost, Spikes, Bolt Beak, Fishous Rend, Geomancy, Lunar Dance, Steam Eruption, plus others at the council's discretion.
Stats: Base Attack and Special Attack cannot be above 135.

We are strict on the justification of distribution of the following moves, as they have historically warped the balance of the tier in a poorly received manner:
Superpower, Knock Off, Recover + similar, Will-o-Wisp

^ with all said above, the submission process is likely to be altered as time goes on to be more accommodating for the newer playerbase. Keep in mind that this mod is beginning to reach a saturation point, so submissions are slow and quality-checked various times. Please don't be offended if we take your submission into our own hands to balance it once it has been added! (this is only done in extreme circumstances anyway)

4. Anything not explicitly stated as part of the Pokemon's design is assumed by the mod leaders.
This means that unless explicitly stated by a submitter, we will assume movepools for your submissions in the case of competitively unviable moves, by cross-referencing them with available move tutors, TMs etc of the 3rd gen games so that they fit the flavour of the mod. This mostly means that your Pokemon 99% of the time will have access to Secret Power, Mimic and Double Edge, but it does have some impact on lesser viable moves in some instances, such as Dynamic Punch for Pokemon with hands, etc.

 

[Rezzo]

Hoenn Gaiden Viability Rankings, May 2023

S1: Tyranitar
S2: Magnezone , Cloyster

A1: Metagross
A2: Zapdos , Skarmory , Abomasnow , Jirachi
A3: Silvally , Gengar , Blissey , Lapras
A4: Celebi , Salamence

B1: Ledian , Swampert , Delibird , Dugtrio
B2: Sunflora , Talonflame
B3: Snorlax , Crabominable
B4: Weezing-Galar , Gliscor

C1: Skuntank , Suicune , Moltres , Hitmononlee , Parasect , Raichu-Alola , Charizard , Magneton
C2: Starmie , Claydol , Flygon , Slowking-Galar , Scrafty
C3: Dusclops

D1: Jellicent , Cramorant , Dracovish , Deoxys
D2: Golurk , Plusle , Dugtrio-Alola , Heracross , Electrode-Hisui , Golem-Alola
D3: Roselia , Aerodactyl

*asterisked Pokemon have received balance changes since the VR list was sampled and published.

Following Pokemon are considered 'viable' but are unknown as to where their placement should fall:

VR Extension

Breloom , Moltres-Galar , Magmortar , Girafarig , Mismagius , Uxie , Lopunny , Entei , Mr. Rime , Gyarados , Krookodile , Simipour , Minun , Porygon2 , Dunsparce , Sylveon , Forretress , Vaporeon , Mawile , Yanmega , Zapdos-Galar , Stantler , Crawdaunt , Milotic , Hariyama , Mamoswine , Roserade , Froslass , Illumise , Raikou , Druddigon , Grumpig

 

[Rezzo]

Hoenn Gaiden Sample Teams (Last Updated February 2023)
​

Magmortar Offensive TSS (Alex Rodriguez) by Bynum


Hitmonlee Mixed Offense by Jimothy Cool


Superman Six Stall by Fruhdazi


Triple DD Hoenn Gaiden Edit


Lapras, Cloyster, Celebi Defensive TSS by Rezzo


Cloyster TSS by King of Iron Frisk


Kecleon Paraspam by Yoshiblaze


Defensive Hail by Jimothy Cool

 

[Paulluxx]

Reserved just in case

 

[ViZar]

Servus! With the UU Tournament just being announced, I wanted to take the opportunity to share a survey here. This survey will covers potentially broken/unhealthy presences in the tournament. You can decide if certain Pokemon should be banned for Round 1 onwards or if they should be allowed for the tour. Remember that Pokemon can still be banned mid-tour, meaning that a Pokemon isn't deemed banworthy right now might get banned for Round 2 onwards. People that are involved in previous tours or in the mod in general will get more weight on their votes, to avoid trolls who just want to mess around.

 

[ViZar]

.

Regarding the Survey, I made a video with my thoughts. You can watch it here.

If you hate my voice or think it sounds awful, which is fair, here's a TL;DR:

Raikou - BAN: I don't think it's most broken mon anymore, but the second broken. The issue I have with it is that it has 1 set but it can be unpredictable in it. The decision between HP Grass, Ice, Water and Fire is annoying and the Pokemon that check it are common. However, you don't know if your Lanturn/Steelix/Marowak-Alola or what have you will check it until you switch in and either resist its moves or get blown away by the HP type. Furthermore, it is really fast so it gets many opportunities to set up a Sub or CM, which works well with its decent bulk. A no brainer to ban this.

Dragonite - BAN: Click DD and win. The thing is, there are some checks to it in theory, however these checks can be altered by just the 4th moveslot. HP Flying, EQ and DD are the main 3 moves and from there you can choose between Fire Blast (for Steelix and Scizor), Hydro Pump/Surf (for Steelix again but also Solrock), Extreme Speed (to pick of faster Pokemon if not fully invested in Speed) or Heal Bell (to set-up on Steelix which can't do anything except Toxic), but whatever you choose it will take 1 or 2 Pokemon with it atleast. I also built some sets like Specially based Mixed and Specially defensive and while DD sets are the best, the fact that it can be unpredicable in its sets is just too much. I said it before and I'm saying it again: Without Mence this would be top tier OU, but here it's more Salamence than Salamence is in OU.

Scizor - DNB: Here's the thing, Scizor is really good but I think that's it. Offensively, it struggles against common Fire- and Flying-types with its HP having to be either Ground or Rock and either way, it gets checked. Defensively, it is really good. Knock Off, Recovery and forcing every offensive mon to run fire coverage is not a good thing, however its defensive profile is to valuable atm. I normally dislike "broken checks broken" dynamics but in this case Scizor threatens a lot of problematic Pokemon, more specifically Psychics like Alakazam and Espeon (who tumble to Quick Attack) or Grumpig (who hates STAB Lunge). I can see it being problematic in the future, but right now there are Pokemon that need more attention than Scizor.

Slaking - BAN: YES, Truant fucking sucks but Slaking still has power, bulk and speed. STAB CB Hyper Beam has a really common tendency to destroy even resists (max HP Scizor takes 68% minimum and max HP Steelix takes 35% minimum). Those resists obviously fear Focus Punch or EQ and Shadow Ball scares Ghosts. In addition it can run Slack Off to keep itself healthy to come in repeatedly. Speaking of coming in repeatedly, Spikes chip every notable check of it and those who can recover off damage can't take hits well. Slaking is a super broken Pokemon and the only thing that Truant does is reduce its effectiveness, but Slaking 10% of its power is still super strong.

Magmortar - BAN: Magmortar is the strongest Fire-type in the meta and it also has the best coverage out of every Fire-type. Fire Blast/Tbolt/EQ already has great coverage and the last moveslot can be whatever, but I think that Focus Punch or a HP can be useful. Expert Belt pushes its calculations up a notch but you don't want that you can run a weakness berry, to which fun fact: Shuca Berry 0 bulk Magmortar lives a hit from Dug-A (what a shit mon lol). Granted you can't be Mild do to so and Rash hinders its ability to check Grasses and other Fires. Still Magmortar is just too versatile and strong while doing it. (Bearbeitet)

Articuno-G - DNB: While it is really strong, don't get me wrong, I think that there are more broken Psychics. Like extremely offensive ones, like Alakazam, and extremely defensive ones, like Grumpig, are more effective at dealing damage or setting up. Articuno-G sticks out by being a middle ground that's also immune to Spikes, but I think it's hard to justify banning it when there are Pokemon in the tier that do what it does but better. It's still strong and probably needs a ban, but I don't think it should be the only Psychic to be banned when it gets banned.

Moltres-G - BAN: So ah, funny thing. In my vid I was completely rethinking everything about "Do Not Ban" decision. Firstly, its coverage is fucking bad. It can run a nice support set with Pursuit and Sucker Punch but the best set for it will probably be Fiery Wrath/HP Fire/Agility/Taunt and while this combination has its checks, its also a luck based strategy and I think that Pokemon whose niches are based on luck should not be allowed in the tier. Taunt prevents phazing or Status so you can in theory flinch the opponent's Chansey or waste all your PP, which is not cool.

Sirfetch'd - BAN: Take everything I said about Scizor and invert it. Bad defensively but really good offensively. Brick Break and HP Ghost should be on every set and from there you can run whatever. CB with 4 attacks or 3 attacks + BP are good but I think that Stick variants with SD and/or Agility are the most broken sets. Again, the issue of luck based strategies and it can double its damage with its crits and they get boosted further by SD. With Inner Focus preventing Intimidate, it does not loose any of its boosts which is just a nice addition. Let's say we ban Stick and remove Luck from it, it's still really stupid with Expert Belt raising its damage, Leftovers healing chip damage or weakness berries allowing it to more easily set-up. Agility and SD are really a threatening set-up combo and Brick Break and HP Ghost have really good coverage together.

Snover - BAN: In hindsight, it should've been Snow Warning not Snover. Snover in itself is pretty bad. It can annoy Grasses, Grounds and Waters but nothing more. Snow Warning, however, is really oppressive. First off, Snow Warning is more broken than Sand Stream. The only reason why Snow Warning isn't as good in OU is because Ttar is a better Pokemon in itself than Abomasnow. Enabling Snow Warning means that everything, except for like 4 Pokemon get chipped. A point that I forgot to mention with Raikou and Steelix is that their checks get chipped hard with Spikes and sometimes they are unable to run Leftovers (either with weakness berries or if you're Marowak-Alola) or their Leftovers gets knocked off. With Snow Warning they get chipped harder. Also a lot of Pokemon want to run some abilities over Overcoat. Grumpig, Dragalge and Roselia like to run Overcoat either way, but Skuntank for example really prefers Intimidate. Forcing it to run Overcoat is not healthy and Roselia is immune to Hail either way, Cloud Nine allows you to run Synthesis if you need to 1v1 some Pokemon with Roselia but you give up on Overcoat's Powder immunity. You could argue with manual weather teams but you'd have to run those teams and Sunflora is not an ideal Pokemon and can't be fit on every team. Also, while Snover isn't a good Pokemon, it can still annoy a lot of Pokemon like Lanturn, Steelix, Regirock, Registeel and Scizor (which btw heals less in Hail with Morning Sun) with Leech Seed. Protect makes this much worse.



The Survey will end in 24 hours so, if you take part in the mod or tour, be sure to check it out!.

 

[ViZar]

Servus! I had to close the survey a bit earlier with a lot of IRL stuff to do. Anyway, here I have the results and with them, the first bans of UU! The tour will start in 2 days, so this will hopefully give people time to adapt.

Pokemon will receive a ban when 50% of the votes + 1 decide to take action against it, otherwise it will stay. Thus, there are a lot of close votes and some (kinda) unanimous votes. Without furtherado, here are the results:

​

Pokemon​	# of Ban​	# of Abstain​	# of DNB​
​	9​	0​	1​
​	6​	0​	4​
​	2​	0​	8​
​	4​	0​	6​
​	6​	0​	4​
​	1​	0​	9​
​	3​	0​	7​
​	3​	0​	7​
​	5​	1​	4​

​

With these results: Raikou, Dragonite, Magmortar and Snover/Snow Warning are banned from Hoenn Gaiden UU! Keep in mind, Pokemon that are not banned now can still be banned throughout the tournament. This survey was there to reduce the oppressive elements, so that the meta doesn't have a unhealthy dynamic. Obviously, the meta will now have new threats that will rise and the ones that are not banned will either be more dominant or easier to deal with, by having better constructed teams.

Survey Pie Charts

10 votes require 6 voters to "BAN" for the 50% + 1 threshold. This equals to 60%.
9 votes require 5 voters to "BAN" for the 50% + 1 threshold. This equals to 55.6%.

In addition, the combination of Baton Pass + a trapping move and the combination of Baton Pass + Ingrain will be banned. This was an oversight on my part. Trapping is an inheritely uncompetitive element and with Baton Pass being able to pass it on any Pokemon that has a positive match-up, it is easy to see why it needs to go. Ingrain adds additional recovery and makes the Pokemon immune to phazing, which is the dream of set-up sweepers. This change affecrts both UU and OU!

That's it for now. Have fun with teambuilding and hopefully, you'll have fun with the new UU and tournament too.
Ciao Servus!

 

[DkKoba]

Posted it on discord but also posting here. Join the discord to participate!

 

[DkKoba]

HG speed tiers
634 - Yanmega / 252+ / +2
578 - Yanmega / 252 / +2
548 - Regieleki / 252+
538 - Ledian-Gaiden / 252 / +2
524 -

Metagross / 252+ / +2

499 - Regieleki / 252
492 -

Salamence / 252+ / +1 | Flygon / 252+/ +1
486 -

Tyranitar / 252+ / +2
478 -

Metagross / 252 / +2
475 - Yanmega / 252+ / +1
471 - Deoxys-Speed / 252+
452 - Yanmega / 0 / +2
448 -

Salamence / 252 / +1 | Flygon / 252 / +1
442 -

Heracross / 252+ / +1 | Tyranitar / 252 / +2
438 - Electrode-Hisui / 252+
433 - Yanmega / 252 / +1
430 -

Gyarados / 252+ / +1
429 - Deoxys-Speed / 252
409 -

Smeargle / 252+/ +1
403 -

Heracross / 252 / +1 | Ledian-Gaiden / 252 / +1
399 - Electrode-Hisui / 252
394 -

Aerodactyl / 252+ | Jolteon / 252+
391-

Gyarados / 252 / +1
388 - Illumise-Gaiden / 252+| Volbeat-Gaiden / 252+
386 - Deoxys-Speed / 252- | Talonflame / 252+
383 - Lopunny-Gaiden / 252+
372 -

Dugtrio / 252+ | Yanmega / 0+ /+1
366 - Deoxys-Speed / 0
364 -

Tyranitar / 252+ / +1
361 -

Raikou / 252+ | Starmie / 252+
360 -

Swampert / 252+ / +1
359 -

Aerodactyl / 252 | Jolteon / 252
351 - Talonflame / 252
350 -

Gengar / 252+ | Frosslass / 252+ | Weavile / 252+ | Raichu-Alola / 252+ | Jumpluff / 252+
349 - Lopunny-Gaiden / 252
339 -

Dugtrio / 252 | Cryogonal / 252+ | Minun-Gaiden / 252+ | Plusle-Gaiden / 252+ | Mismagius / 252+ | Yanmega / 0 / +1
336 - Electrode-Hisui / 0
335 - Delibird-Gaiden / 252+
331 -

Tyranitar / 252 / +1 | Simipour-Gaiden / 252+
329 -

Raikou / 252 | Starmie / 252
328 -

Celebi / 252+ | Charizard / 252+ | Flygon / 252+ | Jirachi / 252+ | Salamence / 252+ | Zapdos / 252+ [Base 100 /252+]
324 - Girafarig-Gaiden / 252+
322 - Hitmonlee-Gaiden / 252+
319 -

Gengar / 252 | Frosslass / 252 | Weavile / 252 | Raichu-Alola / 252 | Jumpluff / 252

317 -

Jynx / 252+ | Houndoom / 252+ | Sylveon / 252+ | Uxie / 252+ | Yanmega / 252+ | Silvally / 252+ | Gliscor / 252+ | Stantler / 252+
316 - Talonflame / 0+
314 - Lopunny-Gaiden / 0+
309 - Cryogonal / 252 | Minun-Gaiden / 252 | Plusle-Gaiden / 252 | Mismagius / 252 | Skuntank / 252+
306 -

Moltres / 252+ | Roserade / 252+
305 - Delibird Gaiden / 252
301 - Simipour-Gaiden / 252
299 -

Celebi / 252 | Charizard / 252 | Flygon / 252 | Jirachi / 252 | Salamence / 252 | Zapdos / 252 [Base 100 /252]


295 -

Heracross / 252+ | Suicune / 252+ | Girafarig-Gaiden / 252 | Cramorant / 252+ | Ledian-Gaiden / 252+
293 - Hitmonlee-Gaiden / 252
291 - Magmortar / 252+
289 -

Houndoom / 252 | Sylveon / 252 | Uxie / 252 | Yanmega / 252 | Silvally / 252 | Gliscor / 252 | Stantler / 252
287 -

Gyarados / 252+
284 -

Venusaur / 252+ | Mamoswine / 252+ | Regidrago / 252+
281 - Skuntank / 252
279 -

Moltres / 252 | Roserade / 252
273 -

Claydol / 252+ | Smeargle / 252+
269 -

Heracross / 252 | Suicune / 252 | Cramorant / 252 | Ledian-Gaiden / 252
266 -

Starmie / 0
265 - Magmortar / 252
262 -

Breloom / 252+ | Cloyster / 252+ | Magneton / 252+ | Metagross / 252+ | Skarmory / 252+
261 -

Gyarados / 252
259 -

Venusaur / 252 | Mamoswine / 252 | Regidrago / 252
256 -

Gengar / 0 | Frosslass / 0 | Weavile / 0 | Raichu-Alola / 0 | Jumpluff / 0
251 -

Vaporeon / 252+
249 -

Claydol / 252
248 - Yanmega / 0+
246 - Cryogonal / 0 | Minun-Gaiden / 0 | Plusle-Gaiden / 0 | Mismagius / 0
243 -

Tyranitar / 252+
240 -

Swampert / 252+ | Weezing / 252+
239 -

Breloom / 252 | Cloyster / 252 | Magneton / 252 | Metagross / 252 | Skarmory / 252
236 -

Celebi / 0 | Flygon / 0 | Jirachi / 0 | Salamence / 0 | Zapdos / 0
229 -

Vaporeon / 252

226 - Uxie / 0 | Yanmega / 0 | Silvally / 0 | Gliscor / 0
221 -

Tyranitar / 252
219 -

Swampert / 252 | Weezing / 252
218 - Skuntank / 0
216 - Roserade / 0
212 -

Flygon / 0- | Jirachi / 0-
209 -

Blissey / 252 | Machamp / 252
207 -

Marowak / 252+
206 -

Suicune / 0 | Cramorant / 0
198 -

Milotic / 0
196 - Regidrago / 0
186 -

Claydol / 0
176 -

Cloyster / 0 | Magneton / 0 | Metagross / 0 | Skarmory / 0
167 -

Claydol / 0-
166 -

Vaporeon / 0
158 -

Cloyster / 0- | Metagross / 0- | Tyranitar / 0
156 -

Porygon2 / 0 | Swampert / 0 | Weezing 0
146 -

Blissey / 0
142 -

Tyranitar / 0-
140 -

Porygon2 / 0- | Swampert / 0- | Weezing 0-
136 -

Hariyama / 0 | Regice / 0
122 -

Regice / 0-
116 -

Forretress / 0
104 -

Forretress / 0-
96 -

Snorlax / 0 | Steelix / 0
86 -

Snorlax / 0-
To add:

base 75
base 70:
base 65:
base 64:
base 60:
base 58:
base 55:
base 48:
base 45:
base 43:
base 40:
base 30:
base 20:



Note I posted this early just to make sure I didnt lose any of my work, I'm working through this right now and this will be updated and this part edited out when its done. Feel free to offer suggestions on what to include / exclude here

 

[Yak Attack]

I went through and autogenerated some speed tiers, DkKoba got me into the mood. You can view them here (I went over the 65000 character limit lol)

 

[ViZar]

First week of Hoenn Gaiden UU Tournament ended. I'm here to provide the usage stats for each round, so this post will be updated regulary.

Round 1

Pokemon​	Usage #​	Usage %​	Win %​	Games Won​
​	10​	35,71%​	50,00%​	5​
​	9​	32,14%​	44,44%​	4​
​	7​	25,00%​	57,14%​	4​
​	7​	25,00%​	28,57%​	2​
​	6​	21,43%​	50,00%​	3​
​	6​	21,43%​	50,00%​	3​
​	5​	17,86%​	40,00%​	2​
​	5​	17,86%​	40,00%​	2​
​	5​	17,86%​	40,00%​	2​
​	5​	17,86%​	40,00%​	2​
​	4​	14,29%​	75,00%​	3​
​	4​	14,29%​	75,00%​	3​
​	4​	14,29%​	75,00%​	3​
​	4​	14,29%​	50,00%​	2​
​	4​	14,29%​	50,00%​	2​
​	4​	14,29%​	75,00%​	3​
​	3​	10,71%​	0,00%​	0​
​	3​	10,71%​	33,33%​	1​
​	3​	10,71%​	100,00%​	3​
​	3​	10,71%​	66,67%​	2​
​	3​	10,71%​	66,67%​	2​
​	3​	10,71%​	100,00%​	3​
​	3​	10,71%​	66,67%​	2​
​	2​	7,14%​	0,00%​	0​
​	2​	7,14%​	0,00%​	0​
​	2​	7,14%​	0,00%​	0​
​	2​	7,14%​	0,00%​	0​
​	2​	7,14%​	50,00%​	1​
​	2​	7,14%​	0,00%​	0​
​	2​	7,14%​	100,00%​	2​
​	2​	7,14%​	100,00%​	2​
​	2​	7,14%​	50,00%​	1​
​	2​	7,14%​	50,00%​	1​
​	2​	7,14%​	100,00%​	2​
​	2​	7,14%​	50,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	100,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	100,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	100,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	100,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	100,00%​	1​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​
​	1​	3,57%​	0,00%​	0​

 

[ViZar]

Servus! Here's an update for UU. Something that a lot of people wanted: BANS! Yes, it is finally time for them and to keep the tension, I will put each banned Pokemon, in a spoiler. Last but not least, here's how we determined a ban. When 3 council members voted "Ban", then it would be banned. However, if someone voted "Abstain", the requirement would become 2 "Ban" votes. All but one Pokemon got unanimous votes in either direction, so the last council member just had to break a tie. Here we go!

Ban #1

Blaziken has proven to a really menacing Pokemon. Rezzo put it nicely as "Magmortar 2.0" or something along those lines. Two great attacking stats combined with Fire and Fighting STABs to go alongside Thunder Punch. HP Ice completed its perfect coverage but it could also use Toxic to further limit its defensive answers which were little to begin with. Milotic was great at tanking its hits while being a good Pokemon. With that being said, it wasn't common since other Water-types were easier to use on a team, especially when one of the best Pokemon in the tier was Gyarados. Nidoqueen could also check it but it is Nidoqueen. The Specially Mixed set wasn't its only viable set though. Many used a Swords Dance Reversal set and that set ripped through everything so effortlessly.​

Ban #2

Trapping is inheritly a uncompetitive mechanic in Pokemon. The reason why it works so well in OU is that a trap doesn't facilitate your Pokemon to an extreme and abusing a Choice-Locked Dugtrio with set-up or something else is much easier. In UU, punishing Dugtrio-Alola is much harder since most prominent set-up sweepers are fairly easily checked and trapping faciliates more Pokemon and makes broken mons more broken and simply good Pokemon broken. Trapping Skuntank enables Mismagius, trapping Alcremie or Tentacruel allows you to stack Spikes. Trapping Steelix or Marowak-Alola allows your Electric-types to go ham. You get the picture.​

Ban #3

Scizor is here due to its defensive profile and its set versatility. Defensively, Bug/Steel is amazing, only having one weakness and many resistances. Morning Sun keeps it healthy allowing it to do whatever it wants and with Occa Berry it can struck weaker HP Fires from Pokemon that specifically run it to deal with Scizor. Regarding its set versatility, it can fulfil any role you want it to. Specially Defensive sets can utilise Knock Off and slow Baton Pass. Choice Band makes use of the new Lunge to fire off a powerful STAB. Swords Dance are CB but potentially stronger. There's also SubSalac with and without Reversal who could surprise an opponent.​

Ban #4

This is probably the least broken mon here and some might say "Why ban it when it is so easily abusable?". My answer to that question is that it is similar to Dugtrio-A in that sense. Yes, you can abuse it but it most likely KOed a Pokemon or chipped it hard. Its counterplay was use a Ghost-type or a Protect user and pray. Mismagius and Marowak-Alola were hit hard by Shadow Ball or Earthquake in the latters case. Girafarig was the only consistant one and it had Wish for recovery and was vunerable to Spikes. While Protect users were great answers to it, you had to run a more passive Pokemon then you'd already like. I haven't mentioned its incredible power with Hyper Beam, great coverage and immense bulk yet but you know that already.​

Ban #5

Zapdos-Galar had unresisted STABs and unlike something like Staraptor or Gyarados, it didn't have to waste a HP for its STAB, therefore it could utilise HP Ghost. Its last moveslot depended on what it wanted to do. Choice Band liked Baton Pass for obvious reasons but it could also run Frustration/Return. Bulk Up was also a great option on it and alongside great stats, spikes + eq immunity and Leftovers, it could stay healthy and fire off its CB or BU boosted STABs freely.​

Voting Sheet

​	ViZar​	Rezzo​	ODJ​	Paulluxx​	Results​
Articuno-Galar​	DNB​	Abstain​	DNB​	-​	DNB​
Blaziken​	Ban​	Ban​	Ban​	-​	Ban​
Dugtrio-Alola​	Ban​	Ban​	Ban​	-​	Ban​
Gyarados​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	-​	DNB​
Scizor​	Ban​	Ban​	DNB​	Ban​	Ban​
Slaking​	Ban​	Ban​	Ban​	-​	Ban​
Zapdos-Galar​	Ban​	Ban​	Ban​	-​	Ban​
Mismagius​	DNB​	DNB​	DNB​	-​	DNB​

Paulluxx couldn't have changed any vote except for Scizor, therefore he was the tiebreaker for Scizor.

In addition to all of this, all Weakness Berries (i.e. Wacan , Occa and Colbur Berry and similar berries) are banned. Reason being that they only benefit those Pokemon that are already difficult to deal with and they push some Pokemon, that are fine normally, over the edge.

That will conclude this ban slate. Maybe the next tiering changes won't be a council vote but a suspect tour or something, we will see. Until then have a nice day!
Ciao Servus.

 

[DkKoba]

https://forms.gle/wiQETHLcBepjwj5c7
Tiering survey for March 2023

 

[UDM 31]

Random Post Battle Dome Team Dump
Vish offense (pokepast.es)
(Don't ask what the nicknames were from I needed random nicknames so I put down the first thing that came to mind)
This is my personal favorite team I used in the battle dome tour, it has a few flaws/modifications I think could be made (for example mixed hp fire Metagross) And the evs on lax definitely aren't optimal so feel free to tweak this how you see fit. The most notable pokemon on it is the offensive Dracovish. Dracovish is one of my favorite pokemon in this format but it's most important trait imo is being a sand immune Gengar/molt check with refresh while still being very threatening through dual stab/toxic on bulkier sets. It's also a good switch-in to various waters. The main weaknesses in my opinion are that this team is somewhat slow and it's relative weakness to Zapdos.

Possible modifications:
Ib tar-mixed meta edit (pokepast.es)
This one aims to hurt Magnezone (zone gets levitate for anyone reading who doesn't know) with Metagross in a different way than physically offensive brick break Metagross does, what it gains is a much harder hit on skarmory, maintains good damage on metagross (better than brick break in a lot of cases). It also has a stab that can hit zapdos more easily than meteor mash (since you're going to need multiple to properly break through it). It's cons are that you find yourself having trouble with Blissey. Also some things like Golurk will threaten you more easily due to your weaker average stabs. Weakness to certain electrics with no eq, etc.
Ice beam on tar is used over rock slide so you don't give Flygon free opportunity, you still also threaten zapdos with ice beam (however not as much as you would with rock slide, you also go from scaring Moltres out to being walled by it (same is true with charizard who is a bigger threat to this team due to dclaw) But if you can accept the fact that you'll have to pivot around charizard's coverage than it could be worth it to not let flygon get up a dd on you.
I personally feel like the Metagross edit is better than the tyranitar edit with this one. Crunch tar and a different item over expert belt are also options worth exploring for consistent damage on everything but might be more niche than the other 2 sets.

Other teams:
dnite mence (pokepast.es) This is one I tested and was considering bringing against pokology but didn't, there are a lot of variations for this as well, with hp grass over wish on mixmence, certain other things you might be able to try with dnite. Maybe something over tar or a different tar set etc. The main idea is you have an offensive wish-mence and then you have a second mence you can use to hit zone and also spread para for cb tar.

On tour (pokepast.es) This one I brought against pokology and lost with it (I personally feel my playing is more at fault than anything else there) The main thing I think could work over metagross is mixed jirachi as I feel mixed attackers are more consistent in the Magnezone metagame.

Overall I really came to enjoy this metagame after my first tour playing it, especially the building part. It feels like there's pretty much endless room for creativity and variation (cite Pokology using Stunfisk and Pincurchin for reference).
(Also Ignore that the winner only used Sunflora teams for most of the tour looking at you Jimothy).

 

[pokology]

Post Batte Dome Tour Teambuilder.
Here i share some of the teams i have build in the tier.
For other players to use/get inspiration from.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

This is amazing.
6x6 mons not 1 repeat (not counting silvally because different type)
enjoy :)

 

[Rezzo]

VR Update!
​

Massive thank you to everybody who submitted. I won't be analysing this data since it is incredibly chaotic -- I cherry picked through all rankings manually to prevent outliers from taking ahold of the end result. Somewhere around the top 14 or so Pokemon the data started hitting extremely high standard deviation values for most Pokemon, so be aware that basically everything ranked like... A2 and below has a very volatile place in the tier.

Nonetheless, I really wanted to form a VR chart for the tier to aid with newcomers, teambuilding, and just generally understanding how everyone percieves Hoenn Gaiden OU as things stand. Thanks to UDM 31 Jimothy Cool DkKoba Chmem pokology Sweetac ViZar bynum for adding to the data set for this round, and thanks again to vapicuno for compiling such a handy guide for making this all possible (apologies for that there is no analysis )

So without further ado, here are the results:

VR May 2023

S1: Tyranitar
S2: Magnezone , Cloyster

A1: Metagross
A2: Zapdos , Skarmory , Abomasnow , Jirachi
A3: Silvally , Gengar , Blissey , Lapras
A4: Celebi , Salamence

B1: Ledian , Swampert , Delibird , Dugtrio
B2: Sunflora , Talonflame
B3: Snorlax , Crabominable
B4: Weezing-Galar , Gliscor

C1: Skuntank , Suicune , Moltres , Hitmonlee , Parasect , Raichu-Alola , Charizard , Magneton
C2: Starmie , Claydol , Flygon , Slowking-Galar , Scrafty
C3: Dusclops

D1: Jellicent , Cramorant , Dracovish , Deoxys
D2: Golurk , Plusle , Dugtrio-Alola , Heracross , Electrode-Hisui , Golem-Alola
D3: Roselia , Aerodactyl

Note well that these rankings are quite volatile - the Pokemon listed here are very closely coupled and what would be considered, say, 'D' Rank in Hoenn Gaiden generally shows much more uncertainty about its placement compared to a Pokemon of equivalent ranking in ADV OU, for example.

This also means that there are Pokemon not listed on this chart that are considered to be viable by the players who submitted their VRs. I have kept them from the rankings to keep things tidy and to add some focus among the noise of this data. These Pokemon are as follows (and could be considered to be their own 'E' rank, theoretically):

VR Extension

Breloom , Moltres-Galar , Magmortar , Girafarig , Mismagius , Uxie , Lopunny , Entei , Mr. Rime , Gyarados , Krookodile , Simipour , Minun , Porygon2 , Dunsparce , Sylveon , Forretress , Vaporeon , Mawile , Yanmega , Zapdos-Galar , Stantler , Crawdaunt , Milotic , Hariyama , Mamoswine , Roserade , Froslass , Illumise , Raikou , Druddigon , Grumpig

 

[ViZar]

With the recent Update on the OU Viability Rankings, some Pokemon rose up to OU and some Pokemon dropped to UU. The Tier Shifts look like this:

Raises:
Drops:

Notable Pokemon that are on the radar are Entei, Breloom, Mamoswine, Froslass, Uxie alongside pre-existing Pokemon Gyarados. These shifts also gave us great additions in Dunsparce, Vespiquen, Komala, Forretress, Tangrowth and Bisharp that all give us importan roles.

Loosing our number 2 in Skuntank might be a bummer, but (and this is subjective) it's probably for the better. Plusle and Charizard were great Fire-types. Roselia was a good spiker and defensive Grass while Electrode-Hisuis offensive prowess and speed tier will be missed. Sunflora was also great as an offensive Grass thanks to Desolate Land. Oh and Golem-A also leaves i guess. (Only the first sentence holds true)

 

[ViZar]

.

a battler once said

Yeah, but honestly have your post literally be like “wait a minute… fuck it, this is more fun: -describe what you just said there-“, followed by “in short… skuntank can suck egg, to UUBL you go stinky.”

With a discussion about this in the council chat, we decided on the following:

From now on, any update on the OU Viability Ranking will only result in drops to UU. Meaning no Pokemon will rise to OU. UU is meant to be a fun side project with no major focus aside from bans, tours and the aforementioned drops.

However, if a Pokemon in the current UU is problematic, meaning borderline broken or entirely broken, then it will rise to OU when enough support is given for it. See Skuntank. Skuntank will be "banned" from UU, becoming a OU Pokemon. It was a Pokemon that was already annoying and obnoxious to deal with and eventhough it's getting nerfed with the removal of Knock Off, it will still be a nursance and therefore will become a OU Pokemon, meaning it can suck eggs.

TL;DR Only Skuntank will rise to OU, all the others will remain in UU

 

[Lord Zorz]

Do people clap loud when you win a grammy,
They clap louder when you win an oscar....
But the people clap the loudest when you fall,
And champ got knocked out to that.

Guys; I don't care how tough you think you are, nothin, hits harder than life.
But it ain't about hard you hit, it's about hard you can GET hit, and keep movin forward.
OKAY?
And don't be pointin fingers sayin I'm not where I need to be because of him,
or her,
or ANYBODY!
Cowards do that,
and THAT AINT YOU!

~~~



Begone Stinky.

Anyways, so some interesting developments over the past few days! With the PMPL coming up, these VR updates were done, as said by Rezzo, to help assist players in sort of... Finding their way in HG a little bit better. Right now HG is still moving towards a few changes to some painful pokemon such as Zone, and there's a TON of unexplored pokemon and strats to be brought up in the coming weeks. I heavily encourage all of you to throw hands with some of the newer pokemon such as and as they're both extremely cool.

While we're a ways off from another slate anytime soon, again, there's plenty of changes still coming to the PM, as well as the fact that there's a lot of unknowns dancing around as is, so lets move forward into this next era--Not to mention UU is its own little wild west to boot.

Post Batte Dome Tour Teambuilder.
Here i share some of the teams i have build in the tier.
For other players to use/get inspiration from.

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

This is amazing.
6x6 mons not 1 repeat (not counting silvally because different type)
enjoy :)

This is a godlike post btw, while these teams may have some issues when you put them under a magnifying glass, these teams can still threaten and really goes to show how creative and wild you can get with not only your teambuilding, but your moment to moment play making!

Random Post Battle Dome Team Dump
Vish offense (pokepast.es)
(Don't ask what the nicknames were from I needed random nicknames so I put down the first thing that came to mind)
This is my personal favorite team I used in the battle dome tour, it has a few flaws/modifications I think could be made (for example mixed hp fire Metagross) And the evs on lax definitely aren't optimal so feel free to tweak this how you see fit. The most notable pokemon on it is the offensive Dracovish. Dracovish is one of my favorite pokemon in this format but it's most important trait imo is being a sand immune Gengar/molt check with refresh while still being very threatening through dual stab/toxic on bulkier sets. It's also a good switch-in to various waters. The main weaknesses in my opinion are that this team is somewhat slow and it's relative weakness to Zapdos.

Possible modifications:
Ib tar-mixed meta edit (pokepast.es)
This one aims to hurt Magnezone (zone gets levitate for anyone reading who doesn't know) with Metagross in a different way than physically offensive brick break Metagross does, what it gains is a much harder hit on skarmory, maintains good damage on metagross (better than brick break in a lot of cases). It also has a stab that can hit zapdos more easily than meteor mash (since you're going to need multiple to properly break through it). It's cons are that you find yourself having trouble with Blissey. Also some things like Golurk will threaten you more easily due to your weaker average stabs. Weakness to certain electrics with no eq, etc.
Ice beam on tar is used over rock slide so you don't give Flygon free opportunity, you still also threaten zapdos with ice beam (however not as much as you would with rock slide, you also go from scaring Moltres out to being walled by it (same is true with charizard who is a bigger threat to this team due to dclaw) But if you can accept the fact that you'll have to pivot around charizard's coverage than it could be worth it to not let flygon get up a dd on you.
I personally feel like the Metagross edit is better than the tyranitar edit with this one. Crunch tar and a different item over expert belt are also options worth exploring for consistent damage on everything but might be more niche than the other 2 sets.

Other teams:
dnite mence (pokepast.es) This is one I tested and was considering bringing against pokology but didn't, there are a lot of variations for this as well, with hp grass over wish on mixmence, certain other things you might be able to try with dnite. Maybe something over tar or a different tar set etc. The main idea is you have an offensive wish-mence and then you have a second mence you can use to hit zone and also spread para for cb tar.

On tour (pokepast.es) This one I brought against pokology and lost with it (I personally feel my playing is more at fault than anything else there) The main thing I think could work over metagross is mixed jirachi as I feel mixed attackers are more consistent in the Magnezone metagame.

Overall I really came to enjoy this metagame after my first tour playing it, especially the building part. It feels like there's pretty much endless room for creativity and variation (cite Pokology using Stunfisk and Pincurchin for reference).
(Also Ignore that the winner only used Sunflora teams for most of the tour looking at you Jimothy).

Also super fire resource, skim over these teams. Not to repeat but I agree with them that there IS endless room for creativity and variation.

 

[SEA]

Well, now that PMPL is over, I'd like to talk about my experience with this tier, and the One Extremely Glaring Problem I think the tier has.

Balance is too strong, but it has to be.

Quite simply, there are too many potent threats in this tier. Most prominently, Ledian and Delibird essentially require you to have a Steel/Psychic on every single team. (or Galarian Slowking!) CB Aeroblast and Hustle Drill Peck/Focus Punch are genuinely ridiculous. You're either running Metagross or Jirachi or you're legitimately fishing those two Pokemon, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Zapdos, Raikou, Suicune, Gengar, Starmie, SD Gliscor, DD Tyranitar, SD Silvally, MoltZardPlusle, DD Flygon, Heracross, and probably a variety of other things not named here. So, how do you counterbalance this extreme load of threats? You give the tier an extremely unreasonable amount of fat ass Pokemon. G-Weez blanket checks essentially every physical attacker and fires in the game. Lapras just removes electric types and offensive waters from relevancy. Physically Defensive Jirachi checks basically every new Pokemon. Cramorant destroys fires, waters, and Metagross.
DD Sweepers are just terrible now. Physical mons cannot break through anything. The best way to break through fat is on the special side, but often times your best coverage available just gets owned so hard by Lapras.
Why is this a problem? The optimal team structures to load up every game are essentially just same-y spikes balances that are meant to go 100+ turns because otherwise you're just going to get bowled over too quickly or be completely unable to break the opponent's balance. That is not a fun or interesting metagame in the slightest.

Do I have a proposed solution? No, not really. I think pet mods as a whole are flawed in this way; there's no real end to adding Pokemon to a metagame, and it creates this exact problem. Hell, with Gen 9 now out I'm sure people only want to add more Pokemon to the format, which really won't help much. Cutting back some of the defensive tools available is going to make this tier just completely overrun with overpowered offensive threats, so I don't think that's the right route to go. Nerfing Ledian and Delibird, for instance, I think would be a healthy change. It would allow for more structural variety in that you wouldn't be forced to pack a way around choice band pure power aeroblast on every single team, or be worried about your whole team getting brutally fucked by a Hustle Delibird making a singular correct Focus Punch play. Offensive guys like that are just too much strain on the teambuilder for this tier.

Anyway, I know what you're here for. Teams.

But first, a huge shoutout to the real MVP of this season: Rezzo! For putting me 5th on the PRs. :D

Ok, fine. Here's the teams. Not all of these are complete, but the ones that aren't finished I think are at least worthwhile concepts.

 

[ViZar]

Servus!

With a new UU tournament on its way, I'd like to talk about the tier. First of all, with the recent tier shifts, the tier has gotten vastly different from last tournament. Adding a ton of new Pokemon and removing one in Skuntank. There were also bans after the 1st tournament that you can see here. However, there was one Pokemon that got unbanned.

Scizor was banned right after the tour. It had good bulk alongside a fantastic typing. That defensive prowess allowed it to set-up with SD/Agility and sweep, throw out CB boosted attacks or utilise Knock Off and Toxic.
One way it was nerfed was the removal of weakness berries in the same ban wave. Pokemon already restricted themselves to HP Fire for, so Scizor tanking them and fighting messed up this interaction, that should be in favor of the Pokemon that restricted itself.
The next two changes are more significant though. The removal of Knock Off makes Scizor easier to deal with defensively. Fire- and Steel-types do not have to fear loosing their Leftovers and thus check it more comfortably, but the biggest nerf it got was to Lunge.
Lunge went from 80 BP to 60 BP, thus drastically decreasing Scizors usefulness. HP Bug is still a strong STAB, but you give up on HP coverage and you have a weaker Scizor. Not only since it has lower BP, but HP also lowers Scizors stats. Overall, Scizor is far more manageable to deal with, thus it's getting unbanned in this tour.

That's it for now! Don't forget to sign up here. Ciao Servus!

 

[DkKoba]

For anyone finding this thread from main server and wondering what is up with this pet mod, it is highly suggested you do your teambuilding on the Pet Mods server, currently http://petmodsdh.com/# is the one that will show you what is legal or not properly, and then move those teams to main. Do note that it takes up to a minute for the client to load.

Also keep in mind that type changes and other things will be invisible on the main server, if you want to see what a pokemon can do, its suggested you pull it up on the Pet Mod server to look at its movepool + typing + stats.

It's a little janky but then again, taking future gen stuff into lower gens is jank as a concept already.

Baton Pass Gaiden will show as illegal on Pet Mod server but you will need to use regular Baton Pass on main server. It will work functionally the same as the Baton Pass clause will prevent positive stat transfer.

Happy gaming!

 

[YubelVT]

​

Abilities: Wonder Guard

One issue, Wonder Guard is already in gen 3

 

[Paulluxx]

One issue, Wonder Guard is already in gen 3

This is stated to iterate that in the future you can’t sub any MORE Pokémon with Wonder Guard.