Pokémon Guzzlord

[Morkal]

Guzzlord needs to run Heavy Slam for Faeries on the switch in or else it has no place on any team that isn't a gimmick.

The main, glaring problem that absolutely neuters Guzzlord more than its terrible defenses and weak defensive typing is the lack of recovery. Stockpile / Swallow recovery isn't viable, (however Stockpile would be if it managed to get Recover or Moonlight or something like that). So I'd like to propose something similar to the sets that Lolrider and SL were talking about but with some alterations.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 108 Atk / 252 Def / 136 SpA / 12 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb

It may seem a little unorthodox, but adding a little extra into SpA to account for the 5 bp drop from Sludge Wave to Sludge Bomb makes all the difference, since Guzzlord is more focused on being an annoyance and a passive stacker, the 30% poison chance is worth the 5 BP drop on the poison STAB. Without Stealth Rock, Heavy Slam still 2HKOs the relevant threats regardless so the loss in attack EVs isn't all that necessary. (If I'm running EVs slightly wrong or if anyone has any additional suggestions let me know.

 

[Eclipse]

So i've been doing some testing with this thing so I could figure out what the hell it actually does, and after reading through this thread I see some of you guys had the same ideas, so I'm gonna share two sets (pretty much very similar in idea with just a different variation in item):

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 100 Atk / 160 SpA / 248 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake / Dark Pulse / Sludge Wave / Rock Slide

IMO, the best niche that Guzzlord has to offer is acting as a tank/special sponge with this specific spread. While I understand the previous spreads in this thread with Defense investment (which is nice to check Alolan Marowak better), the special bulk this thing gets with this specific spread and AV is astounding. It effectively hits a SpDef stat of 306 which, in conjunction with its massive HP even without investment, means it will be able to take numerous attacks from a number of special attackers allowing it to check the likes of Heatran, Manaphy, Xurkitree, Porygon-Z, Volcanion, Slowbro, Mega Charizard-Y, Mega Alakazam, Thundurus, Serperior, Specs Ash Greninja and even LO Greninja (provided it isn't running U-Turn), while even being able to take strong hits from threats like Latios provided that it is healthy enough. The idea for Guzzlord isn't that it is supposed to dish out hard hits, rather that it is able to take hard hits and respond back by forcing out the opponent and threatening the opposing team with its massive coverage to hit a large portion of the meta with it, and overall this has performed very well at doing the job that it is supposed to do even though it is still not a very good Pokemon overall. It has no recovery for this set, so I always run SpDef Healing Wish Jirachi which is a phenomenal partner for this set, or even without Healing Wish it still can do the job that it needs to before it becomes weakened and is taken out. The first three moves are basically mandatory for great overall coverage and decent power although don't expect this Pokemon to be breaking down walls, the Attack investment allows it to OHKO Tapu Lele after Stealth Rock damage with Heavy Slam, and the last slot lets you hit literally whatever your team needs covered. Earthquake primarily hits Heatran, Dark Pulse is great overall coverage and STAB and hits the likes on Alolan Marowak, Jirachi and Mega Alakazam, Sludge Wave lets you hit Tapu Bulu harder, helps you not get entirely walled by Tapu Fini (although its still like a 3HKO at best, so it's not all that necessary), and Rock Slide allows you to hit Volcarona which you can easily take a +1 Bug Buzz from with this set, and Charizard-Y; Stone Edge isn't necessary since Rock Slide does the damage that you need it to do. Overall I think this is probably the best way to go about using Guzzlord, and even though it is still relatively underwhelming, it has enough of a distinct niche to make it not completely horrendous.

Wall of Calcs

252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 63-75 (10.7 - 12.7%) -- possible 8HKO

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 316-372 (53.8 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252 SpA Xurkitree Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 314-370 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252+ SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 256-302 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Steam Eruption vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 114-135 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 258-304 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 278-328 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 252-299 (42.9 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Ash-Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 117-138 (19.9 - 23.5%) -- possible 5HKO

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 350-414 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(now for the less relevant calcs, these only showcase emergency situations if your Guzzlord is healthy enough to take these hits)

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 429-507 (73 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 480-568 (81.7 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 248 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 426-504 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Guzzlord @ Normalium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 100 Atk / 160 SpA / 248 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Stockpile

This set is relatively the same idea as the last set, although this trades the enormous special bulk for a one-time free recovery option in Z-Stockpile which brings you back up to 100%. This allows you to play more freely with Guzzlord and take hits until you need to bring yourself back up to full, and the Stockpile boost might come in handy, although that's not the main point of using it. Nothing much more to say about it, just a cool set.

 

[Linneus]

This thing really confuses me ... all it can do back is sit there and click moderately powerful attacks till it falls over. Ultimately, what is this trying to do?

...Its best.

I think a lure set might work better if it ran Substitute, but then it'd run into fourth moveslot syndrome problem where I'd have to sacrifice a STAB or a coverage option.

Well actually, hold up a second...


I'm gonna go for something a little unorthodox for the purposes of the "Guzzlord as a lure" crowd, but...

Guzzlord @ Mago Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Substitute

...who cares about STABs if you want a Fairy lure? If anything, this'll really throw your opponent off if they think "Whoah, it's got Heavy Slam AND Substitute? Ok, then my Steel types can handle this. Wait, it's ALSO carrying Fire Blast? Surely it's got Crunch in the back... or it's saving a Draco..."
But you said it yourself when you said that its absolute purpose is to play headgames and clear away fairy types from the opponent. It also means you'll never have to suffer an opponent being immune to your attack unless they have Flash Fire or they bring in a Steel type (but if they've got a Steel type, chances are you aren't clicking Sludge Wave). EVs are just to maximize damage because I wouldn't expect to survive an attack. That's what the subs are for. If they stay in and you survive their attack, you either drop below 25% HP and recoup' with the Mago Berry, or you keep enough HP to make the Sub and THEN heal. Or they'll try to set-up on you, only to realize they're now blocked by a sub. And if you faint, well, uh... at least you have a free switch afterwards! :D

Throw a priority user in the back if you run into, I don't know, Assault Vest Tapu Bulu. And god help you if their chosen Fairy type is one of those Pixilate Hyper Voice mofos. This is an incredibly desperate set if I've ever seen one, but hey, there's no point in me repeating everything everyone else has said, right?


Now I'm gonna be real here... I would hate to use a set like this. Having to play mind games and leaving all your matches up to chance is really obnoxious, but with good team building (or if you're low on the ladder and just want to play around), you may find that something strange could really help in the early game!
And this is coming from someone whose favorite set back in the day was Choice Specs Blissey.

 

[zachmac]

^I really wouldn't recommend running only offensive EVs. In order for a substitute lure set to work, you have to use offensive momentum to force a swap out. Guzzlord doesn't have a speed stat worth diddly squat, so its got to rely on out-tanking things - which it can't do if it can't tank.

Anyway, I'm really iffy on the idea of running no STAB. The main role I'm using it for is as a fairy lure, but I'd at least like it to do other, regular Guzzlord stuff on the side so that its not a dead weight when it can't do its primary job as a lure.

 

[The Haymaker]

So, I guess I better be catching a Quiet Guzzlord? I think the most merit at this point seems to be Assault Vest. Unfortunately, this thing will probably never get recovery to supplement its surprisingly good bulk when invested. Such a shame that it now struggles to avoid being an inferior Hydreigon (and doesn't succeed too well at doing it)...

Also, is RestTalk with Dragon Tail even remotely viable? I can't think of any reason to use this over Zygarde though, which is unfortunate. It doesn't help that Guzzlord has like literally no setup or even support moves outside of Substitute, Toxic and...Gastro Acid?

Finally, I'm not sure if it's worth it, but Hammer Arm has potential for nailing Chansey and TTar harder than any of its other moves.

 

[Ulevo]

After reviewing Guzzlord and doing some calc's, the best nature is likely Modest. Regarding its moveset, for offensive coverage, you probable want to go with the following:

Guzzlord @ -
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 128 Def / 252 SpA / 128 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave

The only other moves worth using in Guzzlord's arsenal offensively are Heavy Slam, Earthquake, and Hammer Arm, which hit very specific targets. Dragon Claw does not hit anywhere near as hard as Draco Meteor does, and it is necessary to hit many 2HKO marks, or to cripple incoming threats attempting to tank a hit. Flamethrower or Fire Blast hit notable switch ins such as Genesect, Celesteela, Skarmory, Scizor and M-Scizor, Ferrothorn, Buzzwole, Magearna, Excadrill, Kartana and Bisharp. Dark Pulse is for general STAB offense, and gets more mileage in the tier than Crunch would due to defensive threats being more physical oriented than special, Will-o-Wisp and Intimidate aside. Players are listing Heavy Slam for Fairy types, but Sludge Bomb/Wave do the job better in most cases. The top Fairy types right now, the Tapu, take more damage from Poison since Tapu Koko and Fini receive X1 from Steel and Bulu is X4 weak. Even if you did not run Sludge Wave, Flamethrower does more than Heavy Slam to Tapu Bulu. It is also worth noting that Sludge Wave and especially Sludge Bomb have a chance to poison the target, while Heavy Slam does not.

Heavy Slam could be used for Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, Diance and Nihilego if they are threats to your team. The only other two moves worth using are Hammer Arm and Earthquake, which hit very specific targets like Heatran and Tyranitar. In these cases, using Quiet could be beneficial.

If you are considering Trick Room, with 0 IV and Quiet, you are able to reduce your speed below Slowbro, Ammongus, Toxapex and other Guzzlord. That being said, you will not get slower than Ferrothorn, M-Sableye, Amoongus and Slowbro/M-Slowbro, and you will not always be under Trick Room, so being faster than the former threats outside of Trick Room, especially when Guzzlord hits 3 of them SE damage, is useful. Under Trick Room, you will be faster than virtually everything else in the entire tier, disregarding something like a Hammer Arm stat drop.

As for items, Assault Vest and Choice Specs could work well. I am sure there are some Z-Moves that have potential that I have not thought of yet.

 

[Camara]

Don't put Evs into HP, given its gigantic base HP it's better to invest in the defenses instead, you get less damage.

 

[The Haymaker]

After reviewing Guzzlord and doing some calc's, the best nature is likely Modest. Regarding its moveset, for offensive coverage, you probable want to go with the following:

Guzzlord @ -
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 128 Def / 252 SpA / 128 SpD
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Sludge Bomb/Sludge Wave

The only other moves worth using in Guzzlord's arsenal offensively are Heavy Slam, Earthquake, and Hammer Arm, which hit very specific targets. Dragon Claw does not hit anywhere near as hard as Draco Meteor does, and it is necessary to hit many 2HKO marks, or to cripple incoming threats attempting to tank a hit. Flamethrower or Fire Blast hit notable switch ins such as Genesect, Celesteela, Skarmory, Scizor and M-Scizor, Ferrothorn, Buzzwole, Magearna, Excadrill, Kartana and Bisharp. Dark Pulse is for general STAB offense, and gets more mileage in the tier than Crunch would due to defensive threats being more physical oriented than special, Will-o-Wisp and Intimidate aside. Players are listing Heavy Slam for Fairy types, but Sludge Bomb/Wave do the job better in most cases. The top Fairy types right now, the Tapu, take more damage from Poison since Tapu Koko and Fini receive X1 from Steel and Bulu is X4 weak. Even if you did not run Sludge Wave, Flamethrower does more than Heavy Slam to Tapu Bulu. It is also worth noting that Sludge Wave and especially Sludge Bomb have a chance to poison the target, while Heavy Slam does not.

Heavy Slam could be used for Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, Diance and Nihilego if they are threats to your team. The only other two moves worth using are Hammer Arm and Earthquake, which hit very specific targets like Heatran and Tyranitar. In these cases, using Quiet could be beneficial.

If you are considering Trick Room, with 0 IV and Quiet, you are able to reduce your speed below Slowbro, Ammongus, Toxapex and other Guzzlord. That being said, you will not get slower than Ferrothorn, M-Sableye, Amoongus and Slowbro/M-Slowbro, and you will not always be under Trick Room, so being faster than the former threats outside of Trick Room, especially when Guzzlord hits 3 of them SE damage, is useful. Under Trick Room, you will be faster than virtually everything else in the entire tier, disregarding something like a Hammer Arm stat drop.

As for items, Assault Vest and Choice Specs could work well. I am sure there are some Z-Moves that have potential that I have not thought of yet.

Thanks for the feedback! I'd just like to point out that Quiet is pretty safe even if I decide to go with a full special set. Even after the Speed reduction, it's still enough to beat Toxapex and the other base 35's. I can't think of anything relevant besides the rare Araquanid where those few points in speed would make a difference.

 

[LazyLunala]

I think Guzzlord has great potential as a bulky Pokémon. If you make it so it can take hits, than you can use Stockpile as a setup move.

Guzzlord @ Chesto Berry
Beast Boost Ability
EV's : 4 HP, 252 Def, 252 SpDef
Modest Nature
Stockpile
Toxic
Dark Pulse
Rest

The reason I put in more Defense and Special Defense is because Defense and Special Defense investment is better than HP investment.

EDIT: You will get a SpAtk boost every time Beast Boost activates

 

[Mystletainn]

I don't think I remember ever actually posting in this thread, though I did elsewhere, but here is the Guzzlord set that I used when winning one of the earlier Sun/Moon tournaments.

Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Heavy Slam

Very specially bulky tank that can deal with special threats and spam Dragon Tail all over the place. My team needed the Ghost, Fire, Water, and Electric resists that only this Pokemon offered (Hydreigon isn't bulky) so I figured why not use it, and it did quite well as a result.

As an example of how bulky this thing is, here is a calc from during the tournament where Guzzlord ate up a strong super-effective hit and KO'd with Earthquake.

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 195-231 (33.2 - 39.3%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO

 

[Yasuo]

I think the Assault Vest Set is by far Guzzlords best option. I would run a quiet nature in combination with Heavy Slam. Even with a full special investment does Heavy Slam more damage than Sludge Bomb to most fairies. You would only need the poison attack for Azumarill and Primarene, which won't be in Guzzlords tier. The most important Sludge Bomb/Wave target is Whimsicott.

Heavy Slam vs Poison coverage: Florges

- 0 Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 158-188 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Florges: 128-152 (35.5 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Heavy Slam vs Poison coverage: Slyveon

- 0 Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Guzzlord Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sylveon: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Heavy Slam vs Poison Coverage: Whimsicott
- 0 Atk Guzzlord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 140-166 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- Sludge Wave is a OHKO

I think that it is worth running Heavy Slam on Guzzlord to make it to allow him to 2HKO Sylveon and Florges. If you aren't a fan of those shaky 2HKOs, you can put some EVs into his attack stat