Resource GSC Simple Question, Simple Answer Thread

Vileman

Actually a Nice Fella
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Zapdos and Raikou too common. Tyranitar pretty common (and unlike the above 2, won't be missing Thunders). Suicune is pretty bad, but not uncommon either, fully walling Moltres. Vaporeon exists, Tentacruel exists, Blissey exists, Kingdra, Omastar, Aerodactyl and Kabutops aren't unheard of. Except for the electrics (who miss Thunders in Sun) , the checks Moltres has, check it way too well.
Bro missed the star of the show :row:
Starmie hard walls his ass with too much pp from recover, and starmie is more popular than ever (and for good reason all the common sets are good as f)
But yeah Eeveeto covered most of the mons that give moltres issues. Lately I've seen people use it in a more reliable, long term use with stalk 2 attack sets rather than sunny day charcoal bc of its unreliability between fire blast missing and sunny day giving a free turn to go to a check/counter. There's also its speed tier which puts it right below zapdos which of course is no bueno.
It's not unviable but a niche pick overall.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Been trying to get into GSC teambuilding recently when I came across some funny moltres calcs vs some of the popular mons in the tier (like being able to almost 2hko lax under sun) and then saw he's like c rank on the viability rankings. What does this guy even do to put him so low? He seems like the type of mon that once you get some good chip off on the opposing mons he sweeps really quickly with his sunny day + fire blast so I'm kinda curious why he isn't higher/used more often?View attachment 591186
Yes, as others have said, it doesn't have coverage to deal with the checks that resist it. Even in a good team matchup, it still needs to spend a turn setting up sun to realize its full potential, and even then its matchups against Zapdos and Snorlax never ascend past "complicated, but favorable".
 
From one hand you have great pokemon with Curse set like Snorlax or Tyranitar.

But the problem is that curse leave offen weak to revenge kill , especially the special attacker one.

So i thaught that sword danse could be better , with pokemon like Marowak . or even using Baton pass link with fast mon like Scizor or Smergle.
But in this case your team should be 100% around this idea.

Curse seems more easier to pull. But is it really the best in OU GSC ?
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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Curse is the setup move with broad distribution. It's not so much that it's the best, rather, it's usually the best available.

Pokemon with access to Swords Dance usually suffer from poor movepool or stats. The two Pokemon most capable of making it work are Marowak and Tentacruel, but they both have some rather glaring weaknesses holding them back from being GSC staples.

Growth is also a powerful setup option available to the Eeveelutions and Venusaur. This can also be passed with Baton Pass.

However, I would say that setup moves are less effective than ever in today's GSC. GSC offense at the highest level is all about wallbreakers with good attacking coverage backed up with Spikes support. And the insta-kill button that is Explosion, of course. Spending a turn to set up is essentially just giving your opponent a free turn to switch in a check to force you out.
 
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Are there any well known Lax-less teams that are entirely viable? The only thing I really know about GSC is that lax is "mandatory" to have on a team, but is that really 100% true?
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
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So I know HP Legends ban used to be a thing in the olden days. Do we have an article (or some other resource) about its history and when the ban was repealed?
 

Oglemi

Borf
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So I know HP Legends ban used to be a thing in the olden days. Do we have an article (or some other resource) about its history and when the ban was repealed?
I think some of the original threads may be lost to time / the 2007 purge, but this thread did survive https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/concerning-the-ban-on-hp-legendaries.18523/
I'm not familiar with articles being written, even perusing the old metagame hub pages didn't reveal anything, although something may exist in the C&C archives.

This decision was likely largely done offsite, either on Netbattle, IRC, or elsewhere.

MDragon or Jorgen may be a bit more familiar, but the amount of people from that era is quickly dwindling
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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The most recent official Smogon Tour round to feature GSC (and which explicitly published rules banning HP Legends) seems to have been this from 2007: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/season-5-week-9-gsc-2-won-by-fear.19023/ Funnily enough, Fear won it :) Sometimes I forget he was at this long before I got started, because he went on to kick ass long after I retired.

For some reason my brain wanted to put the lifting of the ban at 2009. This thread seems to indicate it was still around at the beginning of that year: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/why-is-hp-on-legendaries-banned-in-gsc.50695/

However, that is probably not accurate. I think the decision might've actually been made in a thread or discussion somewhere about whether it would be allowed for the first SPL (which had signups in April 2010, began play in May 2010). They definitely were allowed for that first SPL, by the way, as this playlist of matches can attest:


I'm not sure where to find that discussion, unfortunately. The best historical throughline I can find for when the ruleset had "officially" changed, which lines up with the "changed for SPL" theory, is this:

gorgie posts an interest probe thread for a tournament featuring GSC in March 2010. In it, HP Legends are explicitly banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-tournament-interested.68159/

Then, a few months later, the actual signups for that tournament posted in June 2010 say they're allowed now due to recent changes to official tournament rules! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-sign-ups.72663/

This would be honored in the first round of the tournament posted days later: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-round-1.72807/

I want to say Pokemon Online allowing it may have contributed, too, but that might be bad chronology because I think GSC support on PO only really took off a year later. Alas, PO only has a couple patchy snapshots on the Wayback Machine remaining, so those records are pretty much lost.

Anyway, yeah, enough rambling. All signs point to them being officially unbanned by Smogon for the start of SPL 1 in April/May of 2010. It'd be cool if somebody smarter could post a more direct source for that than my guesswork though.
 
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I think some of the original threads may be lost to time / the 2007 purge, but this thread did survive https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/concerning-the-ban-on-hp-legendaries.18523/
I'm not familiar with articles being written, even perusing the old metagame hub pages didn't reveal anything, although something may exist in the C&C archives.

This decision was likely largely done offsite, either on Netbattle, IRC, or elsewhere.

MDragon or Jorgen may be a bit more familiar, but the amount of people from that era is quickly dwindling
The most recent official Smogon Tour round to feature GSC (and which explicitly published rules banning HP Legends) seems to have been this from 2007: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/season-5-week-9-gsc-2-won-by-fear.19023/ Funnily enough, Fear won it :) Sometimes I forget he was at this long before I got started, because he went on to kick ass long after I retired.

For some reason my brain wanted to put the lifting of the ban at 2009. This thread seems to indicate it was still around at the beginning of that year: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/why-is-hp-on-legendaries-banned-in-gsc.50695/

However, that is probably not accurate. I think the decision might've actually been made in a thread or discussion somewhere about whether it would be allowed for the first SPL (which had signups in April 2010, began play in May 2010). They definitely were allowed for that first SPL, by the way, as this playlist of matches can attest:


I'm not sure where to find that discussion, unfortunately. The best historical throughline I can find for when the ruleset had "officially" changed, which lines up with the "changed for SPL" theory, is this:

gorgie posts an interest probe thread for a tournament featuring GSC in March 2010. In it, HP Legends are explicitly banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-tournament-interested.68159/

Then, a few months later, the actual signups for that tournament posted in June 2010 say they're allowed now due to recent changes to official tournament rules! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-sign-ups.72663/

This would be honored in the first round of the tournament posted days later: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/rby-gsc-adv-ou-mashup-round-1.72807/

I want to say Pokemon Online allowing it may have contributed, too, but that might be bad chronology because I think GSC support on PO only really took off a year later. Alas, PO only has a couple patchy snapshots on the Wayback Machine remaining, so those records are pretty much lost.

Anyway, yeah, enough rambling. All signs point to them being officially unbanned by Smogon for the start of SPL 1 in April/May of 2010. It'd be cool if somebody smarter could post a more direct source for that than my guesswork though.
Thanks a ton for these looks into the past. Also, really funny seeing a couple names like MrE who are still around lol.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
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no, use whichever you prefer. just dont tweak the happiness stat
 

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