GSC In-Game Tier List Mk. IV

aegon the unlikely · Feb 24, 2021

The backtrack is...really not a problem. You have a Bicycle and can buy plenty of Super Repels from Olivine. It takes a couple of minutes at most. The time manipulation ain't a problem either, you just change the date and time manually. The only problem is actually catching the Pokemon. I'd argue the sum of the parts is what's annoying more than anything else, and most of them aren't individually bad at all.

Also, I left my L7 Chikorita in the Daycare after getting to Goldenrod practically after getting there. Two badges in, Team Rocket and the glitter Lighthouse both cleared, and my Chikorita is at...L28 (for comparison, my team Pokemon are at L29). I think the Daycare certainly has potential if you use it at the right time, potentially allowing you to train a 5th mon without compromising your other 4 and their training.

Chuck

Arcanine (L30): Headbutt reliably 2HKOes Primeape who does very little back with Karate Chop and is outpaced. Poliwrath is pretty much a no go, Headbutt only 4HKOed more than 50% of the time and Surf reliably 2HKOes you in return. Mind Reader Hypnosis shenanigans can be annoying. D-tier matchup, not efficient.

Weepinbell (L31): Sludge Bomb reliably 2HKOes (with a chance at OHKOing) Primeape who does little back with Karate Chop or Fury Swipes but outpaces you. You outpace Poliwrath consistently and can 3HKO (with a chance at 2HKOing) him through Sludge Bomb. Hypnosis forces Chuck to waste a Full Heal turn, so you might want to hit him with it again after getting him. He'll try to put you to sleep himself or Mind Reader you, but you are faster. Both Surf and Dynamicpunch fail to 3HKO. Very easy matchup, you may not even need any item support even for sleep - I didn't. S-tier.

Vaporeon (L31): A Rain-boosted Surf reliably OHKOes Primeape, who outpaces but can't even bring you below the green with a Leer + non-crit Karate Chop. Reliably outpace Poliwrath and reliably 3HKO with Rain Surf. Dynamicpunch reliably 3HKO you in return. A-Tier matchup.

Crobat (L30): Wing Attack reliably OHKOes Primeape; Crobat level to L31. It reliably 2HKOes Poliwrath too who can't even 2HKO you with Surf (only 3HKO and not even all that reliably). You outpace them both. A Mint Berry negs Hypnosis, though I never needed one. S-Tier matchup.

Pryce

Crobat (L31): Return/Fly reliably 2HKOed Seel, bringing him to the very low red in one hit - he doesn't even get 3HKOed by Icy Wind in return and doesn't care about the speed drop either due to being hilariously faster than everyone here. Return/Fly reliably 2HKOes Dewgong who cannot bring you to the yellow even after damage by Seel and an Aurora Beam. 3HKOes Piloswine but can only survive a non-crit Blizzard from above 80% HP. If you game Blizzard misses and heal with Hyper Potions after being hit, you can 3HKO through Screech + Return x2. A crit or a Screech miss can ruin this strategy, as can a freeze. I'd say B-Tier, due to being able to take out the first two more or less solo and having a chance at beating Swine too.

Vaporeon (L31): Set up a Guard Spec to avoid having your speed lowered by Icy Wind. Bite reliably 3HKOes Seel (whom you outpace) - in return, Icy Wind and Headbutt do very, very, very little damage. Bite is not good against Dewgong, though. Fortunately, Rain + Surf reliably 2HKOes Seel and reliably 3HKOes Dewgong, whom you outpace too. Piloswine gets reliably OHKOed and outpaced (too). Easy S-Tier matchup.

Weepinbell (L31): Set up a Guard Spec to avoid having your speed lowered by Icy Wind, put Seel to sleep, then boost to +5 through Growth. Vine Whip OHKOes everyone reliably from there, and you outpace them too (got to L32 after beating Dewgong but didn't need to in order to beat Piloswine - or so calcs suggest). S-Tier matchup - at best you might need a Hyper Potion or Moo Moo Milk to heal up (I admittedly did on 2 of 3 attempts, they aren't hard to get though). I would again recommend putting him back to sleep if he wakes up, like with Clefairy and Scyther.

Arcanine (L31): Headbutt reliably 2HKOes Seel who can do very little to you. Fire Blast reliably 2HKOs and outpaces Dewgong who can't do much at all to you with Headbutt even after eating an Icy Wind speed drop from Seel. Your own Headbutt reliably 3HKOs Dewgong. Fire Blast reliably OHKOs Piloswine and at least Pink Bow Headbutt reliably 3HKOs. Blizzard and Fury Attack are a total joke to you. Easy S-Tier matchup with Fire Blast, likely A-Tier without (and assuming you use a Guard Spec).

Jasmine

Crobat (L33): Do not want. Crobat can take care of one, maybe even two Magnemite...Return has a good shot at 2HKOing Magnemite 1 at least and OHKOs after a Screech, but Steelix? Nope. Magnemite reliably 2HKOs with Thunderbolt and Steelix a lot with Iron Tail. D-tier matchup.

Vaporeon (L33): Vaporeon reliably outpaced and OHKOed everyone through Surf. No Rain needed. S-tier matchup.

Weepinbell (L33): Put Magnemite 1 to sleep, then boost to +6 through Growth. Vine Whip OHKOes Magnemite 1 and 2 reliably from there (you need the Miracle Seed to guarantee the OHKO on the Magnemite though). I would again recommend putting him back to sleep if he wakes up, like with Clefairy, Seel, and Scyther. Steelix is only 2HKOed and hits hard with Iron Tail, which might KO with a crit or if you spend a turn, say, trying to put him to sleep (but fail). Vine Whip away. A-Tier matchup, but not that safe. Magnemite can be annoying through parafusion, paralysis, or confusion too. You outpace everyone thankfully.

Arcanine (L33): Even Ember reliably OHKOs Magnemite and 2HKOs Steelix. Fire Blast OHKOs everyone. S-Tier matchup, Rock Throw can only 3HKO at best barring a crit, but you outpace and outdamage, so...

Random Passerby · Feb 25, 2021

Just a quick alert: my laptop just died on me so I can't test or respond much now.
After I got a new laptop then only will I update the thread. Happy testing and posting.

Edit: New laptop probably coming this weekend Saturday or Sunday.

aegon the unlikely · Feb 25, 2021

Random Passerby said:
Just a quick alert: my laptop just died on me so I can't test or respond much now.
After I got a new laptop then only will I update the thread. Happy testing and posting.

That's a cryin' shame. Hoping you can get a new one soon (you'd likely want one for work too, right?)

Rival - Goldenrod City

Crobat (L34): Return reliably 2HKOs everyone but Magnemite, who might get 3HKOed instead, and Haunter who gets OHKOed by Fly. In return, none of them can do much to you in return apart from status (which can be annoying). B-tier, maybe even A-tier matchup.

Weepinbell (L34): Outpaced by everyone but Magnemite. Sludge Bomb OHKOs Sneasel, 2HKOs Quilava, 3HKOs Golbat, 3HKOs Haunter, and lol Magnemite. Magnemite and Golbat can be annoying with status effects and Golbat as well as Quilava can 2HKO you. You can win if you're aggressive with Sleep Powder, have some items, and fortunate with sleep but if not, you get your butt kicked. C-tier matchup.

Arcanine (L34): Fire Blast OHKOs Golbat (Headbutt 3HKOs), OHKOs Haunter (Bite falls just short of a KO), OHKOs neasel (Headbutt 2HKOs), Magnemite OHKOed by Fire Blast or Dig, and Quilava 2HKOed by Dig or Headbutt. S-tier.

Vaporeon (L34): Rain Surf OHKOs Golbat, although he outpaces you and can confuse you - he can't do much back to you in return with Wing Attack. Outpace Magnemite and OHKO Magnemite. Haunter outpaces and gets OHKOed. Got to L35 after that. Ditto for Sneasel. Quilava gets OHKOed cleanly even after rain stops. A-tier matchup, Golbat is the only annoyance and/or threat.

Clair

Crobat (L40): Return reliably 2HKOs each Dragonair - paralysis can be annoying though. In return, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt can't even 2HKO you, and neither can Kingdra's Surf. After a Screech, Return can nearly OHKO. Fire off Return once Kingdra's in the red and you have the fight in the bag. B-tier matchup - paralysis and damage from the Dragonair building up over time, combined with damage from Kingdra, are really the only things stopping this from being an A-tier matchup. You might need a fair bit of healing, both for HP and status, to reliably win. But if you do, you win.

Weepinbell (L40): You outpace Dragonair, allowing you to put them to sleep. Sludge Bomb reliably 2HKOs each one. An X-Accuracy like in Kioskate's tests can ensure you never miss against Dragonair 1, coupled with status healing, to pull through. Their Dragonbreath 4HKOs you in return and Ice Beam 2HKOs you in. Kingdra, however, 3HKOs you with Dragonbreath and 2HKOs you with Hyper Beam. Also, he can make attempts to put him to sleep or do anything else tricky through Smokescreen spam - he outspeeds you. If you don't use an X-Accuracy (or a Guard Spec), Kingdra can have a very realistic shot at beating you. With a Guard Spec, a held Przcureberry, and some healing items you can take Clair all-in-all...but the amount of support needed is not optimal and a Dragonair or a crit can be dangerous. I'd argue C-tier.

Arcanine (L40): Return can reliably 2HKO all three Dragonair, with one doing little damage back to you even with Surf (only a 3HKO). Return reliably 3HKOs Kingdra and Surf can only 3HKO you in return under the Sun. You outspeed everyone and with healing support and proper weather + healing timing (emphasize keeping up Sunny Day up at all times against Kingdra!) MIGHT be able to win, but Kingdra's Smokescreen makes her an unsafe matchup. C-tier. Arcanine's first ''terrible'' non-Chuck matchup.

Vaporeon (L39): Vaporeon reliably outpaces Dragonair and two-shots with Aurora Beam (decent chance at one-shotting with Nevermeltice at least). Even a crit Thunderbolt can only 2HKO at best. Aurora Beam reliably 4HKOs Kingdra and Hyper Beam cannot even 2HKO you - Kingdra does outpace you, though. The Hyper Beam charge turns can be exploited given it's really her only way to not do absolutely little damage to you here, albeit you might want some healing support to deal with it better. A-tier, only lower because paralysis + Smokescreen shenanigans can get in the way.

Volt-Ikazuchi · Feb 25, 2021

aegon the unlikely said:
The backtrack is...really not a problem. You have a Bicycle and can buy plenty of Super Repels from Olivine. It takes a couple of minutes at most. The time manipulation ain't a problem either, you just change the date and time manually. The only problem is actually catching the Pokemon. I'd argue the sum of the parts is what's annoying more than anything else, and most of them aren't individually bad at all.

Precisely.

You're jumping through a bunch of hoops to get a stronger Return from the jump. It's not a bad thing to have, but it boils down to nothing but a luxury.

If it was STAB Return, I'd at least consider it, but what gets STAB on it comes way before Surf (Most Normal-types) is already annoying to catch (Tauros, Miltank) or hits too hard already to need the bonus (Ursaring).

It really doesn't move the needle for me.

Speaking of things that doesn't move the needle...

I'm not going to address the Day-Care results, but think about it this way, if we're evaluating a mon's performance, how does a mon lacking half the game's worth of battle data help the purpose of this thread?

Texas Cloverleaf · Feb 25, 2021

In my myriad of casual playthroughs over the year on cart I would typically only end up with one ball from Kurt, typically a Fast Ball from the White Apricorn tree outside his house. I don't think there's anything wrong with assuming specialty balls for specific use cases (e.g. Friend Ball for Golbat) but I also don't think they should ever be assumed as available by default, even with emulator time manip options. Make a note where a specific ball is useful in your writeups, but go no further.

aegon the unlikely · Feb 25, 2021

A few quick thoughts:

1) Arcanine is soo good. Easily one of the best Pokemon I've tested yet, much better than Cyndaquil so far and not even very TM reliant. You can also get a Pokemon with endgame-level and balanced stats before the third gym. I taught him Dig but I almost never needed it. They've never had a bad matchup outside of Chuck's Poliwrath and a few Dewgongs before I upgraded to Fire Blast, at which point even Pryce's Dewgong got 2HKOed hard.

2) Agree with Random Passerby totally on Bellsprout. Sleep Powder is a really clutch move for capturing Pokemon and defeating Pokemon - that it can allow you to set up multiple Growths to Vine Whip foes hard is amazing. Acid and later Sludge Bomb also hit brutally hard even from a Weepinbell (whom I plan to evolve later to pick up Razor Leaf). Only a handful of opponents hard wall you - major ones, admittedly - but it's not a big deal.

3) Vaporeon being C makes little sense given how easy it is to get them, their high bulk, and their brutally strong Rain Surfs.

4) Crobat is brutally fast, pretty durable, and hits hard. Not the best at beating bosses (though not worthless against any) outside of Chuck and can be a bit annoying to optimize but they decimate fodder trainers with endgame-level stats, even ones with a level advantage and/or high bulk.

5) The idea of Return being a ''luxury'' sounds genuinely weird when it also is an absolute beefcake of a move even on Pokemon that DON"T have STAB on it AND don't even have particularly high Attack (90 is decent but nothing like Gyarados or Heracross with their 120+, both of whom incidentally can be found quite easily after Morty and ironically around the same place as the Green Apricorn itself). Crobat also happens to be a decent mon in their own right but one that needs Return at lower levels...connect the dots.

6) Point taken on the Daycare. I do think it challenges the idea you need 4 mons to be optimal for Johto a bit though, 5 might do.

Not that I really have a stance on the matter, though I personally feel if we can use more Pokemon and stay competitive, we should.

7) Good to know Random Passerby's gonna get a laptop soon hopefully!

Rival - Victory Road

Crobat (L42-L43): Outpace and cleanly OHKO Sneasel and Kadabra with Return/Fly. Return 3HKOs Magneton who 4HKOs in return with Thundershock - paralysis can be annoying. Golbat gets outpaced and cleanly 2HKOed with Return/Fly and doesn't even 3HKO back with Wing Attack. Fly outpaces and OHKOs Haunter. Typhlosion only 4HKOs with Flame Wheel and is outpaced and cleanly 2HKOed with Return. Need some healing to get through (mainly because of Magneton) but otherwise pretty solid matchup. A-tier matchup.

Vaporeon (L42-43): Apart from Screech (and even with), Sneasel is a total joke and Rain Dance setup fodder. Surf OHKOs everyone under the rain, though everyone outpaces you apart from Magneton thankfully. Haunter and Golbat can be annoying with their respective shenanigans but are OHKOed and Confusion isn't that annoying to Vaporeon anyway given their stat distribution (not very good Attack or Defense but solid HP). Surf OHKOs Kadabra even without rain as they set up Future Sight - ditto for Typhlosion. A-tier matchup.

Victreebel (L42-43): Outpace Sneasel and Kadabra (!!!) and OHKO both with Sludge Bomb. Outpace Golbat and 3HKO with Sludge Bomb (put him to sleep first though). He can be annoying through Confuse Ray and can 3HKO you back with Wing Attack so put him to sleep if he ever isn't and attack him once he is. Outpace Typhlosion and put to sleep with Sleep Powder, then 2HKO with Sludge Bomb - Flame Wheel doesn't even reliably 2HKO you in return. Outpace Magneton and OHKO with Razor Leaf at +4 - put them to sleep to prevent status shenanigans. Outpace Haunter and either 3HKO with Sludge Bomb or OHKO with Razor Leaf at +3. A-tier matchup, might need some healing at best.

Arcanine (L42): Outpace Sneasel and Kadabra and OHKO both with Return. Outpace Golbat and reliably 2HKO with Return while tanking Wing attack with little damage or reliably OHKO with Sunny Day Fire Blast (better if you prefer to avoid being confused or the like). Reliably outpace Haunter and OHKO with Bite. Reliably outpace Typhlosion and 2HKO with Return. Magneton gets OHKOed with Fire Blast. S-tier matchup.

Will

Crobat (L43): Outpace Xatu 1 and cleanly 2HKO with Return/Fly/Bite, Xatu 2 more or less the same at least with Return/Bite. In return, Psychic 2HKOes you. Jynx can narrowly survive a Return and KO you afterward though (and Bite too), so go with Fly to ensure the OHKO. Bite only 3HKOs Slowbro unfortunately and you still get 2HKOed by Psychic and your other attacks. Exeggutor gets 2HKOed by Fly (with a chance at being OHKOed) and 3HKOed by Bite and 2HKOs you back through Psychic. Overall, Crobat can nearly beat anyone here one-on-one and beat Xatu 1 and Jynx back to back pretty reliably, not bad for a Poison-type! C-tier matchup.

Victreebel (L42): Outpace Xatu 1 and can put to sleep before reliably 2HKOing with Sludge Bomb. Psychic, if it hits, 2HKOes you though. You speed tie Jynx, survive a Psychic at full HP, and OHKO with Sludge Bomb. Xatu 2 cleanly outpaces you but if you can live a Psychic and put him to sleep, Sludge Bomb 2HKOs again. You outpace Exeggutor and cleanly OHKO with Sludge Bomb. Slowbro gets 2HKOed by a non-crit Razor Leaf. Overall, with access to sleep and some lucky speed ties and/or move selection on Xatu's part, you can actually win this. C-tier matchup.

Arcanine (L43): You outspeed everyone. Sunny Day Fire Blast reliably OHKOs Xatu 1 and you are only 3HKOed by Psychic in return. Bite reliably 3HKOs Slowbro through Amnesia and can 2HKO without. Sunnyblast OHKOs Exeggutor (DON'T use Bite here, it only 2HKOEs) and either Return or Fire Blast OHKOes Jynx. A-tier matchup, only annoyance is if you miss a Fire Blast or so or get confused during setup.

Vaporeon (L42-43): Although Xatu outspeeds, he only 4HKOes with Psychic and you reliably 2HKO in return through Surf (no Rain Dance needed). Xatu 2 no different. You reliably outpace Exeggutor and 2HKO with Bite, Psychic only 4HKOing at best. Jynx also fails to 3HKO and gets 2HKOed by Surf. You usually 3HKO Slowbro even if he uses Amnesia, possibly 2HKO without. Overall an A-tier matchup - you only need healing due to being slow and getting worn down and possible status b-but....you nuke Will.

Koga

Victreebel (L42): Do not want. Everyone resists Sludge Bomb and almost everyone quad resists Razor Leaf. F-tier.

Vaporeon (L43): Rain Dance Surf reliably OHKOs everyone but Muk and Crobat, both of who are 2HKOed. You outpace everyone but Crobat and Venomoth - set up Rain Dance against Ariados. Might need some healing depending on Minimize/Double Team/Protect/status shenanigans. B-tier.

Crobat (L43): Fly OHKOs Ariados and Venomoth. Return 3HKOs Forretress after Screech x2 - Fly is worthless here due to Protect spam. Screech on Muk and 2HKO with Return - don't use Fly as it allows him to use Acid Armor or Minimize. Return 3HKOs Crobat - don't use Fly as he uses Double Team then. A-tier, though Forretress Exploding might ruin your sweep (it also might not happen though) so I'd recommend not fighting him.

Arcanine (L43): Fire Blast OHKOs Ariados, Forretress, and Venomoth - don't bother setting up Sunny Day against anyone but Forretress as the other two are annoying with Double Team and status spam. Muk gets 2HKOed by Sunny Day Fire Blast + Bite and 3HKOed by Return IIRC while Crobat OHKOed by Sunny Day Fire Blast and 3HKOed by Return. A-tier matchup.

Bruno

Arcanine (L44): Fire Blast and Return both 2HKO Hitmontop - set up Sunny Day on the turn Hitmontop emerges with Dig. Sunny Day Fire Blast OHKOs Onix and just falls short of a OHKO on Machamp, who you can live one non-critical Cross Chop from (though if it crits, you're toast). Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan are both OHKOed by Sunny Day Fire Blast and 2HKOed by Return. A-tier matchup, though an untimely miss of Fire Blast or a crit against Machamp can give Bruno the win.

Crobat (L43): Return 2HKOs Hitmontop - don't use Fly as he can avoid it with Detect. Onix only 3HKOs you with Rock Slide and you 3HKO him with Bite. Fly 2HKOs (with a chance at OHKOing) Machamp - you can live a Rock Slide - and OHKOs Hitmonlee. A-tier matchup - just use some healing items and you clear.

Vaporeon (L43): Outpace Hitmontop and 2HKO with Surf. Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee outpace but get 2HKOed too. You will very likely need to heal once Hitmonlee or Machamp appears. Machamp can 2HKO with Cross Chop and live even a Rain-boosted Surf, however - not a safe matchup. Onix is fodder. B-tier matchup - needs healing and support with Machamp but otherwise can solo.

Victreebel (L42-43): Outpace Hitmontop, put to sleep, and set up Growth. From there, +6 Razor Leaf OHKOes everyone. You outpace everyone here. S-tier matchup, finally a good fight for Victreebel.

Karen

Crobat (L43-44): Guard Spec. for Umbreon immediately, then Screech and Fly x2. Fly 2HKOs Gengar. Fly is much better here as it discourages them from dirty tricks. Fly reliably 2HKOs Murkrow who is a total joke. You need healing to get through Houndoom, however - Fly only 3HKOs unless you Screech, then it's a 2HKO. Screech is recommended given that Karen has a tendency to heal her Houndoom once low in HP. Fly + Return reliably 2HKOs Vileplume. A-tier matchup, though Houndoom can be dangerous if it catches you with a crit at the wrong time and either way you need healing, maybe some additional healing if Umbreon confuses you.

Vaporeon (L43-44): Rain Dance Surf reliably 2HKOs Umbreon - use Guard Spec immediately, again. Outpace Umbreon and Vileplume. Ouptace and 2HKO with Aurora Beam. Surf reliably 2HKOs Gengar outside rain (rain ended at this point for me) - watch out for paralysis. Aurora Beam and Surf both OHKO Murkrow. Surf 2HKOs (can OHKO outright) Houndoom outside rain and you can live both Crunch and Faint Attack fairly comfortably if they don't crit or you are at or near full HP. A-tier matchup, might need some healing but otherwise good to go.

Arcanine (L44-45): Guard Spec, then Sunny Day Fire Blast + Return for the KO on Umbreon. Outpace and OHKO Gengar with Sunny Day Fire Blast. Murkrow is a joke and gets OHKOed by Fire Blast with or without Sunny Day, ditto for Vileplume. You outpace and cleanly 2HKO Houndoom with Return and are only 3HKOed by Crunch in return. Apart from status shenanigans (which are hardly guaranteed, can be prevented entirely in the other cases apart from Umbreon), you dominate. S-tier matchup.

Victreebel (L43-44): Guard Spec, then put Umbreon to sleep with Sleep Powder, then Growth up to +6. Amazingly, Umbreon can (barely) survive even a +6 non-crit Razor Leaf, but you 2HKO. Houndoom is a no, she has an extremely high chance of OHKOing you and cleanly outpaces you. Vileplume is easy sleep + x6 Growth fodder and gets 2HKOed by Sludge Bomb. Gengar gets 2HKOed by +6 non-crit Razor Leaf and outpaces but doesn't do much back to you - not a big problem. Outpace Murkrow and 2HKO with Sludge Bomb. Need healing and support for Houndoom but otherwise can solo. B-tier matchup.

Lance

Victreebel (L44-45): Outpace Gyarados and put to sleep, then set up to +6 with Growth. Put him to sleep if he ever wakes up. You can tank one non-crit Hyper Beam at full HP or near. At +6, Razor Leaf reliably OHKOs Gyarados. You outpace Dragonite - put them to sleep immediately. Unfortunately, even a +6 Razor Leaf can't 3HKO Dragonite, so go through Sludge Bomb instead (reliable 3HKO on all three). You can tank one Wing Attack from Aerodactyl into the yellow at or near full HP and OHKO back with +6 Razor Leaf. If you miss, you're screwed though as he outpaces you cleanly. Charizard outpaces and destroys you in one Flamethrower though, so don't fight him. Surprisingly good matchup, you can beat everyone but Charizard if you're willing to spam healing items and have decent luck with crits and sleep. C-tier matchup.

Crobat (L43-44): Use Screech to cut Gyarados's Defense to butter and 2HKO with Fly/Return. You are 3HKOed by Hyper Beam in return and can capitalize on the recharge turn to heal yourself (recommended!) before KOing with the next attack. Dragonite 1 can 2HKO you with Thunder (perfect accuracy under the rain!) so you want to make sure you end or prevent rain by the time D-NIte 1 comes in but before he can attack. From there, use Screech and then Return (Fly wastes a turn and can get you hit by Thunder) to 2HKO and heal if needed. D-Nite 2 is similar but has Blizzard instead which is slightly safer. With (a lot of) healing, you can get through them. Aerodactyl is a no, though you outpace and can Screech for an ally. Return barely 2HKOes even after a Screech and while you can live a Rock-type attack (only one!), a critical hit or two hits will crush you.

Ironically D-Nite 3 is the safest, outpaced, reliably 2HKOed after a Screech, and can only 3HKO with Outrage. Charizard is much the same. Ultimately you can beat 3/6 of the team relatively handily and maybe even one or two more. Avoid Aerodactyl though. C-tier matchup.

Vaporeon (L43-45): Aurora Beam is a 5HKO on Gyarados - you can exploit the cooldown turns from Hyper Beam (a 3HKO) to heal or attack (depending on your HP and Gyarados's). He also tends to use Surf on you for some reason, making it even easier. Dragonite 1 outpaces and 2HKOs with Thunder (might 3HKO too though) - don't engage him unless you're ready to fish for Thunder misses and risk a crit OHKO on you. Aurora Beam reliably 2HKOs each Dragonite. Hyper Beam from D-Nite 1 and 2 3HKOes or 2HKOes you - utilize the recharge turns for healing. D-Nite 3 reliably 2HKOs you with Hyper Beam at any rate - heal during recharge turns, while Outrage seems to be a 3HKO at best. Aerodactyl 3HKOs you with Hyper Beam and gets OHKOed by Surf. Charizard is a total joke and gets OHKOed by Surf. Overall a very solid matchup, though a crit Hyper Beam can be really bad and Thunder D-Nite may require aid. A-tier matchup.

Arcanine (L44-45): If Gyarados ever uses Rain Dance (unless he's in the red, in which case just KO him), use Sunny Day to weaken Surfs - even a crit Surf under Sunny Day can only 2HKO Arcanine, and a non-crit can only 4HKO. Return reliably 3HKOs Gyarados. Aerodactyl is a flat no - he outpaces and reliably 2HKOs you with Rock Slide while tanking anything you have. D-Nite 1 3HKOes you with Thunder while you return the favor with Dragon Scale Dragonbreath, but faster. D-Nite 2 and 3 are less dangerous due to having Blizzard and Fire Blast instead. You outpace all 3. Unfortunately, Hyper Beam reliably 2HKOes you for all three, though Outrage only 3HKOs. Charizard is a joke mostly, but heal if you're in the yellow or red to avoid a Hyper Beam ending your career. He does little to you with Wing Attack or Slash while Return reliably 3HKOs him. Surprisingly good matchup, but you need aid with Aerodactyl and a stray crit can ruin your day for the D-Nites 1 and 2. I'd argue B-tier matchup.

Random Passerby · Mar 6, 2021

Hi, everyone, my laptop is finally here and I've updated the tier lists.
Here is a summary of the changes:

Spearow : S-> A
Gastly (Trade) : A-> C
Tauros: A-> B
Miltank: A-> B
Wooper: A-> B
Cyndaquil: B-> A
Seel: B-> C
Bellsprout (C) : C -> B
Poliwag (Poliwrath) : C-> A
Poliwag (Trade): C-> A
Snubbull (C): C-> B
Eevee (Vaporeon): D -> B
Horsea: D -> C

Many Pokemon unobtainable before the post-game have been wiped from the list. I will further clean up the bottom ranks in the future.

The reasons for the changes are mentioned below.

Spearow : S-> A
This is one change I wanted to make ever since I tested Spearow personally last month. True, it is strong but fast but an S-rank Pokemon should not fall flat against bosses especially in the late game.

Gastly (Trade) : A-> C
Gengar is amazing at clearing bosses even if you do not cheese with X-Accuracy. However, the sheer issue of being useless at clearing routes and niche uses before Lv25 makes it a hassle to use.

Tauros: A-> B
It is a rare encounter, low catch-rate mon that comes at a level lower than your party and has rough match-ups for a few gyms in a row. Not as good as advertised. The rate of levelling hurts it as well.

Miltank: A-> B
It is a rare encounter, low catch-rate mon that comes at a level lower than your party and has rough match-ups for a few gyms in a row. Not as good as advertised. The rate of levelling hurts it as well.

Wooper: A-> B
It really falls flat with bad stats until its evolution. Even then, it is not great either compared to other Water-types. The only things it have in its favour are availability, HM Slave and natural Earthquake.

Cyndaquil: B-> A
OK, I have flip-flopped on this several times but looking back at the list, Cyndaquil's overall performance, especially post Flame Wheel feels more at home at A rank. If you clear the Mahogany Rockets first, it is very likely for you to get Flame Wheel after Chuck.

Seel: B-> C
This Pokemon is only available after the Mahogany Rockets and appears in an inconvenient location. It's stats are nothing to shout about either.

Bellsprout (C) : C -> B
Bellsprout's ability to cheese match-ups with Sleep Powder and Growth is valuable. Sludge Bomb is a great STAB upgrade as well.

Poliwag (Poliwrath) : C-> A
Poliwag does have an issue in Gyms until it becomes Poliwhirl although it can contribute meaningfully against Morty. You can also skip this phase and catch a Lv22 - 24 Poliwag at Violet City after Morty. Regardless, Poliwrath has great match-ups from the moment you get it. It also doesn't require huge TM investment to contribute.

Poliwag (Trade): C-> A
Poliwag does have an issue in Gyms until it becomes Poliwhirl although it can contribute meaningfully against Morty. You can also skip this phase and catch a Lv22 - 24 Poliwag at Violet City after Morty. Regardless, Politoed has great match-ups from the moment you get it. It trades a worse Attack stat for a better SpA stat to abuse Surf and Ice Punch better.

Snubbull (C) : C-> B
Comes early and hits hard. Does have issues later on but does not completely fall off.

Eevee (Vaporeon): D -> B
I think Vaporeon deserves a rise due to how much it dominates match-ups with Surf and Aurora Beam. You can also teach it Blizzard later on. The back-tracking is annoying but well worth it for such a great Pokemon.

Horsea: D -> C
This Pokemon is fast and hits hard. However, it is only available after the Mahogany Rockets and is at an inconvenient location.

Some of the things I would like tested;
1) Abra (No Trade): Does this thing deserve S?
2) Lugia (S), Ho-oh (G), Suicune (C): Should they be downgraded to B since they come so late?
3) Nidoran (F) and Nidoran (M): I will probably test this personally.
4) Staryu (C)
5) Tentacool
6) Growlithe: I know aegon posted a log on this but I would like a second opinion.

ASMRxism · Mar 6, 2021

Regarding the mascot legendaries, I think lateness should only be a penalty if it requires grinding to catch up to the team. If they join your team as your highest level Pokemon, the lateness isn't really a penalty to your overall efficiency.

Still think Gengar to C is too harsh, B seems more appropriate, but whatever I stopped participating in this thread a while ago lmao

EDIT:

For what it's worth, I don't have a log because it was a while ago but I used Growlithe in a Crystal playthrough and don't have any objections to anything aegon said about Growlithe. It performed very solidly, tapering off a bit in the early 30s while I waited for Flame Wheel. I didn't grind out a Fire Blast TM and still found the solid bulk, speed, power and type coverage (Fire/Bite/Dig/Take Down) to be consistently relevant and useful. It's the closest thing Crystal has to a GS Magmar replacement and plays more or less the same role after you evolve it.

Idk if that's enough of a second opinion and I'd encourage a test of it, but I also can't see it being lower than B. It's uniqueness as an early Fire type alone makes it worthwhile for the coverage, it never truly shined but it never lagged.

aegon the unlikely · Mar 7, 2021

I legit cheered to see Cyndaquil rise, not gonna lie.

Agree with all of these tier placements roughly, not sure about Seel though but fair argument.

ASMRxism said:
Regarding the mascot legendaries, I think lateness should only be a penalty if it requires grinding to catch up to the team. If they join your team as your highest level Pokemon, the lateness isn't really a penalty to your overall efficiency.

Still think Gengar to C is too harsh, B seems more appropriate, but whatever I stopped participating in this thread a while ago lmao

EDIT:

For what it's worth, I don't have a log because it was a while ago but I used Growlithe in a Crystal playthrough and don't have any objections to anything aegon said about Growlithe. It performed very solidly, tapering off a bit in the early 30s while I waited for Flame Wheel. I didn't grind out a Fire Blast TM and still found the solid bulk, speed, power and type coverage (Fire/Bite/Dig/Take Down) to be consistently relevant and useful. It's the closest thing Crystal has to a GS Magmar replacement and plays more or less the same role after you evolve it.

Idk if that's enough of a second opinion and I'd encourage a test of it, but I also can't see it being lower than B. It's uniqueness as an early Fire type alone makes it worthwhile for the coverage, it never truly shined but it never lagged.

Agreed. The mascots may come late but they also are pretty strong and ready to fight the E4 right off the bat.

Growlithe is really good in Crystal, though I'd argue the right thing to do is to not bother waiting till Flame Wheel and evolve ASAP (you could also wait until Sudowoodo is cleared, though I had no problem trekking back to New Bark even before that). Arcanine does amazingly against Whitney and Ember + other moves including Headbutt, Bite, and MAYBE Dig are more than enough to tide you over until Fire Blast is achievable.

I'd argue for B at bare minimum.

Random Passerby said:
Some of the things I would like tested;
1) Abra (No Trade): Does this thing deserve S?
2) Lugia (S), Ho-oh (G), Suicune (C): Should they be downgraded to B since they come so late?
3) Nidoran (F) and Nidoran (M): I will probably test this personally.
4) Staryu (C)
5) Tentacool
6) Growlithe: I know aegon posted a log on this but I would like a second opinion.

I'm willing to try Tentacool and Abra (no trade) alongside Chikorita. I plan on catching a Geodude to prevent Chikorita from overleveling and to beat Falkner and Bugsy if Chikorita cannot get the job done. Also, Random Passerby, thoughts on me SRing for a Female Chikorita for Attract?

Also, great to hear you got the laptop!

aegon the unlikely · Mar 7, 2021

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to publish my own evaluations of the Pokemon I tested on my last run.

Bellsprout: Falkner (C), Bug (A), Rival (E), Whitney (A), Rival (E), Morty (E), Chuck (S), Pryce (S), Jasmine (B), Rival (C), Clair (C), Rival (A), Will (C), Koga (E), Bruno (S), Karen (B), Lance (C), Fodder (B)

5 C (2), 3 A (4), 3 S (5), 4 E (0.5), 1 B (3)

(10 + 12 + 15 + 2 + 3) / 18

= 2.33 (C/C+)

Growlithe: Falkner (B), Bugsy (S), Rival (A), Whitney (A), Rival (A), Morty (S), Chuck (D), Pryce (S), Jasmine (S), Rival (S), Clair (C), Rival (S), Will (A), Koga (A), Bruno (A), Karen (S), Lance (B), Fodder (S)

1 C (2), 1 D (1), 2 B (3), 8 S (5), 6 A (4)

= (2 + 1 + 6 + 40 + 24) / 18

= 4.05 (A)

Vaporeon: Rival (A), Morty (A), Chuck (A), Pryce (S), Jasmine (S), Rival (A), Clair (A), Rival (A), Will (A), Koga (B), Bruno (B), Karen (A), Lance (A), Fodder (A)

= 10 A (4), 2 S (5), 2 B (3)

= (40 + 10 + 6) / 14

= 4 (A)

Golbat: Chuck (S), Pryce (B), Jasmine (D), Rival (B), Clair (B), Rival (A), Will (C), Koga (B), Bruno (A), Karen (A), Lance (C), Fodder (A)

= 2 C (2), 1 D (1), 4 B (3), 5 A (4), 1 S (5)

= (4 + 1 + 12 + 20 + 5) / 12

= 3.5 (B+/A-)

Grade:

S = 5 grade points
A = 4 grade points
B = 3 grade points
C = 2 grade points
D = 1 grade point
E = 0.5 grade points
F = 0 grade points

Rankings so far (assuming all matchups equally weighted):

Growlithe (A)
Vaporeon (A)
Crobat (B+/A-)
Bellsprout (C/C+)
Cyndaquil (A-)
Rattata (B)
Quagsire (B+/A-)
Scyther (B/B+)

Growlithe is a very good Pokemon, one of the best I've ever used or tested with very few bad matchups and mostly good/great ones. Needs very little TM support to do well ingame - I found myself scarcely ever needing Dig in spite of teaching it to him. The only TMs he needs to do well are Headbutt and Fire Blast, and Return is good to have too. Dragonbreath can be nice against Lance with paralysis but Return isn't far behind in power either. That said, Fire Blast's tendency to miss and low PP prevent him from being S-tier, as does a relatively troublesome matchup with two major Dragon bosses.

Vaporeon is also terrific, hitting very hard and being pretty bulky. Mainly nothing but good matchups, though the lack of speed can be a bit of annoying and prevents them from reaching S tier - healing support for that reason is preferred to clinch some matchups reliably. Natural Aurora Beam and Bite are pretty good, and Rain Dance + Surf hits like an aquatic truck. Very self-sufficient in terms of TMs and healing items aren't too hard to supply. Backtrack may be a bit annoying but it's hardly time-consuming and easy enough at that point in the game.

Crobat is a pretty solid mon, though they struggle mightily against Steel-types and have many exploitable weaknesses. Hit decently hard and outspeeds nearly everything, even holding his own against guys that have an elemental advantage against him due to decent bulk and Bite, however. Not necessarily gonna solo entire opponent teams - though they can do that a few times too, especially with item support - but overall really good at decimating fodder trainers and helpful in many major ones. Open to a lower rank due to the backtrack and other shenanigans though.

Bellsprout is...kind of underwhelming and exceeds expectations at once. On one hand, Weepinbell did pretty good in spite of not evolving into Victreebel until nearly the end of the playthrough, and Sleep Powder is a really clutch move for both catching mons and defeating ones, including to help your party. Growth Vine Whip bests many a major opponent, including some they have no business fighting normally or some really challenging ones like Whitney. Their Sludge Bombs also pack a wallop in spite of not fully evolving. On the other hand, Grass/Poison coverage is pretty bad and lack of versatility hurts a lot. I'd argue they deserve a higher rank than C/C+ if we consider X-Accuracy Sleep Powder cheese potential and/or team support.

Cyndaquil is a pretty solid mon all-in-all with almost zero truly bad matchups, with even the likes of Whitney, Clair, and Lance all beatable with item support (and in the case of Aerodactyl, a teammate or an X-Speed maybe). They trounce Bugsy, the Rival (each time), Jasmine, Pryce, the entirety of the Elite Four, and do well against Morty (with Dig). They aren't bad against NPC trainers either. Fury Cutter and/or Rollout is a relatively low demand TM and mandatory for Whitney if you plan on using Cyndaquil there, though Dig has competition unfortunately and in either case another mon might use it better. The late evolution - for Johto - is the only thing alongside the aforementioned TM dependence preventing them from being closer to S-tier.

Rattata is a solid B-tier mon, all right. They do well from beginning to the near end, helping against the Rival and being downright terrifying against NPCs after picking up Hyper Fang, and aren't very item dependent though might like Dig to beat on Morty better. Not much to say here. The Normal-type and the badge boosts make him a solid choice on any team and they can certainly help in all but a few matchups. They fall off at the end, where their lack of durability shows and their power is unfortunately not quite high enough to compensate all the time, though they are good before that.

Quagsire is a good Pokemon on the balance of B-and A-tier. Their lack of speed and low powered Surfs are very annoying against NPC trainers alone and their bulk is a little wanting, though not really bad. On the other hand, their Earthquakes are pretty strong, their Ice Punches do the job, and Amnesia spamming makes them very hard to take down and allows them to coast by through major battles. Their typing is also really good ingame due to few Pokemon being able to hit them super-effectively in major fights and even those can be overcome easily through Amnesia barring a crit. Wanting the Dig TM might be a reason to keep them out of A - they use it quite well but it's their only decent Ground-type move until Earthquake.

Scyther is pretty rad. Badge boosts and a monstrous Attack allow them to terrorize NPC trainers and a handful of Gym Leaders, even ones with an elemental advantage like Pryce or tough cookies like Whitney. At the E4, Swords Dance sweeping from the beginning (and a bit of healing if needed) make every single member more or less a joke, with Bruno's Onix being maybe the only real roadblock. On the other hand, their exploitable weaknesses and lack of coverage make people like Jasmine and Morty very troublesome roadblocks - Normal/Flying coverage and Fury Cutter ain't enough there. Catching one can be annoying too, they're rare for one. I'd argue based on how you weigh their matchups, they might even be A-tier.

Colteor · Mar 7, 2021

aegon the unlikely said:
I'm willing to try Tentacool and Abra (no trade) alongside Chikorita. I plan on catching a Geodude to prevent Chikorita from overleveling and to beat Falkner and Bugsy if Chikorita cannot get the job done. Also, Random Passerby, thoughts on me SRing for a Female Chikorita for Attract?

Thanks for posting, just wanted to point out a few things about attract. Literally everything with a gender can learn it by tm iirc, so regardless of how good it is, using it shouldn't be worth a whole lot since almost everything can use it. Personally I dont even like using it, due to how highly it relies on rng and taking up a more valuable slot (for Chikorita, either a normal move or one of the screens.) with a move only useful for a small amount of fights. The issue isnt whether attract can be useful, it's that it's a unreliable move especially when you need to chain lost turns back to back for things like Dragonites and Pryce's team. You can certainly use it, but I wouldn't use it as an argument for a rise. ~~Also lol female in gsc so bad attack DVs~~

aegon the unlikely · Mar 7, 2021

Colteor said:
Thanks for posting, just wanted to point out a few things about attract. Literally everything with a gender can learn it by tm iirc, so regardless of how good it is, using it shouldn't be worth a whole lot since almost everything can use it. Personally I dont even like using it, due to how highly it relies on rng and taking up a more valuable slot (for Chikorita, either a normal move or one of the screens.) with a move only useful for a small amount of fights. The issue isnt whether attract can be useful, it's that it's a unreliable move especially when you need to chain lost turns back to back for things like Dragonites and Pryce's team. You can certainly use it, but I wouldn't use it as an argument for a rise. ~~Also lol female in gsc so bad attack DVs~~

Eh, Chikorita is a pretty bulky Pokemon that can set up Screens to make herself even bulkier lol. That makes them a more natural user of Attract than, say, Fearow. Attract has a very high chance of stopping the enemy from attacking altogether and given that many opponents have male Pokemon (Morty, Chuck, Pryce, Rival, Will, Koga, Bruno, and Lance - the final boss), I think it's worth trying. Attract might lose you turns but that's where the screen support comes in. Meganium can also use Body Slam to paralyze opponents to stack with Attract to be truly disgusting to take down.

Attract + Body Slam + Razor Leaf + Light Screen might be my final movepool, I think.

If y'all really find it controversial, though, I can switch Attract to Synthesis instead. Saves the trouble of getting a female Chikorita too...either way, I plan on fighting Falkner with Reflect on my Chikorita, and I plan on grinding an extra level to get it if needs be (shouldn't take more than one).

Random Passerby · Mar 8, 2021

aegon the unlikely , female starters have a lower rate so I think if you reset for it, make sure you remember that. They will be judged like availability issues for rare Pokemon because of how tedious it is. Also, remember that this kind of threads value offensive contributions more than defense.

Also, ASMRxism , Gengar is amazing, no denying that. I just finished my own run with it not long ago. My problem is the effort required to reach that point. I was thinking either B or C because of that.

hinode · Mar 8, 2021

Remember that gender is determined by your attack DV in gen 2. Not only would it take a lot of resetting to get a female Chikorita, you are limiting it to 0-1 Atk DV (max 15).

aegon the unlikely · Mar 9, 2021

Just wanted to echo Volt's comment about experience groups. The same amount of experience that nearly causes Pidgey to level up (or level up even) isn't even remotely enough to cause Zubat to level up. Medium-Fast really is a terrible experience group, especially this early in the game.

*Don't train Zubat until you can catch one (or Golbat) at a much higher level in Mt. Mortar. You need to make do with STRUGGLE to do real damage.

Random Passerby, one question. Is it okay to grind an extra level in the wild (just one level) for a move or evolution that can tilt a matchup decisively? For instance, Cyndaquil generally ends up at L11 right before I fight Falkner, preventing them from having Ember. Likewise, Pidgey either being unevolved at L17 or being a Pidgeotto at L18 can really tilt the rival matchup.

Random Passerby · Mar 9, 2021

aegon the unlikely said:
Just wanted to echo Volt's comment about experience groups. I'm doing a Flying monotype Nuzlocke run on Crystal, pretending to be Falkner, and am raising Pidgey and Zubat* at the moment. The same amount of experience that nearly causes Pidgey to level up (or level up even) isn't even remotely enough to cause Zubat to level up. Medium-Fast really is a terrible experience group, especially this early in the game and pretty much all game.

*Don't train Zubat until you can catch one (or Golbat) at a much higher level in Mt. Mortar. You need to make do with STRUGGLE to do real damage.

Random Passerby, one question. Is it okay to grind an extra level in the wild (just one level) for a move or evolution that can tilt a matchup decisively? For instance, Cyndaquil generally ends up at L11 right before I fight Falkner, preventing them from having Ember. Likewise, Pidgey either being unevolved at L17 or being a Pidgeotto at L18 can really tilt the rival matchup.

I did mention that if a move or power up is a couple of levels away, I'd do it. Example: Quilava's Falme Wheel or Gastly's evolution. If it's too far away then no.

atsync · Mar 10, 2021

Random Passerby said:
Spearow : S-> A
Gastly (Trade) : A-> C
Tauros: A-> B
Miltank: A-> B
Wooper: A-> B
Cyndaquil: B-> A
Seel: B-> C
Bellsprout (C) : C -> B
Poliwag (Poliwrath) : C-> A
Poliwag (Trade): C-> A
Snubbull (C): C-> B
Eevee (Vaporeon): D -> B
Horsea: D -> C

I think these proposed changed are mostly agreeable, at least among the things I've used (which is basically everything listed except Crystal Bellsprout/Snubbull/Vaporeon).

I stated earlier in this thread that I think A-tier should be smaller and more exclusive than it currently is, so while I am pleased to see the cows and such finally drop, I also have issues with other things being raised to A-tier at the same time.

Having read some of the logs here and based on my own experiences with Politoed in GS, I'm not really convinced that Poliwag is especially outstanding compared to the other Water-types that would rank lower than it as a result of this change. I definitely support a rise from C-tier since I do think it's one of the better Waters but I've believed for a while that B-tier alongside the other "good" non-starter Waters like Lapras and Tentacool would be a good fit for Poliwag (although maybe an untraded Poliwag in GS is slightly worse given it won't realistically have the option to evolve into Poliwrath in Johto).

I have my doubts about Cyndaquil getting a rise to A-tier also, but that's been discussed to death and it probably isn't productive to open this conversation again.

Random Passerby · Mar 10, 2021

I understand what you mean but Tentacruel's lack of access to Ice Punch means that Poliwag has better offense compared to it. Lapras probably has better offense than Poliwag but the Ice type gives neutrality to Fire (Houndoom, Charizard), and weaknesses to Fighting, and Rock (Aerodactyl). Without these factors, Poliwag is a B.

Also, I'm looking at geodude, mascot legends and Nidos. Probably some at heading to B among these. B might be cluttered but we'll take a look there in the future.

Kioskate · Mar 11, 2021

I did a run with what I thought might be the best 4 Pokemon after Alakazam to see if I felt like any of them deserve to be S rank. These are Totodile, Abra(no trade). Psyduck and Gyarados.

Just going to lump this altogether because I only had Totodile
9 Totodile sweeps falkner without needing a berry
16 Totodile sweeps Bugsy without needing a berry
18 Croconaw can beat the rival with a Przcureberry but it's very easy to lose with a poorly timed hypnosis

19 Kadrabra 3HKO's Clefairy and Miltank. Miltank 3HKO's back with Rollout. Stomp would have 2HKO'd but I'm not sure about Stomp into Rollout. It's very unlikely you beat both without items.
19 Croconaw sweeps Whitney by 4HKOing Clefairy with Fury Cutter than 2HKoing Miltank. If you're Attracted or Flinched because Miltank outspeeds you or Metronome does something to stop Fury Cutter you lose. You can't beat Miltank 1v1 without setting up on Clefairy. Dig looks like a 7HKO

25 Kadabra does not 1HKO Gengar and is 1HKO'd back. You are faster and just barely miss it. An X Special let's you 1HKO and outspeed everything.
25 Croconaw is only faster than Gastly and Dig is a 1HKO on Haunters and a 2HKO on Gengar While Dream Eater is a 3HKO. Even if you switch out to clear Curses you can still lose half your HP to the first Haunter and then lose by having Gengar and the remaining Haunter land 2 Hypnosis

29 Kadabra sweeps Pryce, 2HKOing eveything and having 2/3 HP left. Piloswine only used Mist but I doubt it would KO with Blizzard
29 Croconaw sweeps Pryce with Fury Cutter, with 1/2 HP to spare. Surf 2HKOs Piloswine
30 Gyarados sweeps Pryce with 1/5 HP to spare. I hit myself in confusion because I don't have Strength yet, but it still seems like a reliable win
30 Golduck sweeps losing 1/3 HP. Headbutt 4HKOs Dewgong and Surf 1HKO's Piloswine. I flinched Dewgong but you can afford to take a few extra hits from it anyway

30 Kadabra 1HKO's Primeape and 2HKO's Poliwrath
31 Golduck 2HKO's Primeape and 3HKO's Poliwrath. Poliwrath 3HKO's with Dynamic Punch or 2HKO's with Primeape weakening. With a mint berry you're still favored to sweep because Dynamic Punch can miss and you're faster but it's not a great matchup and 1v1 you're very favored.
30 Gyarados 2HKO's Primeape with Strength and Poliwrath with Thrash. Dynamic Punch is a 4HKO
30 Feraligatr 2HKO's Primeape and 4HKO's Poliwrath with Strength. Lives 3 Dynamic Punches with 2 HP. It's very easy to lose this fight but if something else beats Primeape it's more reliable but still not great.

30 Feraligatr 1HKO's all of Jasmine
31 Golduck 1hKO's all of Jasmine
30 Gyarados loses to Magnemite. You 2HKO Steelix even with Sunny Day and live a Rock Throw
31 Kadabra 1HKO's Magnemite and 2HKO's Steelix but is 1HKO'd back

32 Kadabra 2HKO's rivals Golbat losing 36/79 HP, 2HKO's Sneasel. losing 34/79 HP which means you can't beat both because of Quick Attack. It 1HKO's Magnemite and Haunter and 2HKO's Meganium, losing 37/79 HP. This means it sweeps all except Sneasel
32 Golduck 2HKO's Golbat losing 19/104 HP, 1HKO's Magnemite, 2HKO's Meganium losing 50/104 HP, 2HKO's Sneasel losing 30/104 HP, and 2HKO's Haunter losing 19/104 HP. This means it just needs something to beat any 1 of them excluding Magnemite
33 Feraligatr 2HKO's Golbat losing 18/117HP, 1HKO's Magnemite, 3HKO's Meganium losing 76/117 HP, 2HKO's Sneasel who's faster so you lose 30/117 HP and outspeeds and 1HKO's Haunter. This means you sweep if Meganium, Sneasel or Golbat are beaten by something else.
32 Gyarados 2HKO's Golbat losing 20/108 HP, 2HKO's Magnemite losing 60/108 HP, 2HKO's Sneasel losing 23/108 HP, 2HKO's Haunter losing 19/108 HP, and loses to Meganium. This means it beats 3/5 that aren't Meganium.

38 Kadabra sometimes 1HKO's Dragonair and sometimes it doesn't. I can't tell if it 2 or 3HKO's Kingdra but you die to Hyper Beam anyway.
38 Gyarados can beat all 3 Dragonair reliably with a Przcureberry, 2HKOing each of them while tanking the Thunderbolt. It beats Kingdra 1v1 with enough HP leftover to tank a hit from Dragonair that isn't Thunderbolt so it can beat all Dragonair or 1 Dragonair and Kingdra. Nevermeltice Blizzard doesn't KO Dragonair.
38 Golduck can beat all 3 Dragonair with a Przcureberry, 2HKOing each of them while tanking the Thunderbolt. Nevermeltice Ice Punch 4HKO's Kingdra without causing her to Hyper Potion while Surf does 29/119 and Hyper Beam does 48/119 so you win because you move first.
38 Feraligatr can 2HKO all Dragonair with Ice Punch/Strength but is too weakened for Kingdra. From full Feraligart 3HKO's Kingdra without causing her to use her Hyper Potion.

40 Golduck sweeps the rival outside of Magneton. I think with Dig it sweeps but I taught that to Feraligatr.
40 Gyarados sweeps if something else beat Magneton.
40 Feraligatr sweeps if something else beat Meganium, who it only beats from full with 8 HP left
40 Kadabra sweeps

40 Kadabra 2HKO's all of Will's Pokemon so you can hope for it to beat 3-4.
40 Golduck can beat 3 of Wills pokemon outside of Slowbro, who it loses to 1v1. It would probably beat Slowbro with Fury Cutter and might even beat 4 with the move but I taught it to someone else.
40 Feraligatr beats all of Will's Pokemon and you can hope for it to beat any 3.
40 Gyarados beats all of Will's Pokemon and you can hope for it to beat any 2.

41 Kadabra swept Koga 2HKOing Muk who didn't attack and missing the KO on Crobat the first time causing it to heal then get 1HKO'd. If Muk Sludge Bombs it does you're left with 18 HP and would lose to Crobat.
41 Golduck beats all of Koga's Pokemon 1v1 and can expect to beat 3 or so. Alternatively you can sweep easily with Psych up, Swagger and Swift.
41 Gyarados sweeps all except for Crobat who it can beat 1v1 if you 4HKO without activating the Max Potion and don't miss too much.
I actually forgot to write down how Feraligatr did but I'm pretty sure it swept all except Crobat who it can beat from full if you're not very unlucky

42 Kadabra swept Bruno, 2HKOing Machamp.
42 Golduck sweeps Bruno outside of Machamp, who it loses to 1v1.
42 Gyarados sweeps all except Machamp, who it loses to 1v1.
42 Feraligatr beats all 1v1 and should expect to beat 3-4.

43 Kadabra sweeps Vileplume, Gengar and Murkrow but loses 1v1 to Umbreon and Houndoom
43 Golduck beats everything 1v1 but it's only going to beat 2-3. It just misses the 1HKO on Houndoom. Alternatively
Golduck sweeps With Psych Up, Swagger, Swift and Surf as long as you don't miss too many times on Gengar.
43 Gyarados beats everything 1v1 but should only expect to beat 2-4
43 Feraligatr beats all 1v1 and should expect to beat 2-4.

44 Kadabra loses to Gyarados and Aerodactyl, 2HKOing with Thunderpunch but being 1HKO'd by Hyper Beam. It 1HKO's the rest.
At 45 with Reflect it would be able to beat one of Gyarados or Aerodactyl.
44 Golduck beats everything 1v1 but can only really hope to take down 2-3. With Blizzard it can expect 3-5 depending on
your luck
44 Gyarados beats everything 1v1 except the Thunder Dragonite. You can expect it to take down 2-3.
44 Feraligatr loses to the Thunder and Outrage Dragonites. It's probably only taking down 2.

Totodile can lose to Azalea Town rival, Whitney, Morty, Chuck, beats 4/5 of Goldenrod Rival, beats either Clair's Dragonairs or her Kingdra, beats 4/5 Victory Road Rival
Kadabra can lose to Whitney, loses to Morty's Gengar, Jasmine's Steelix, beats 4/5 of Goldenrod Rival, and loses to Clair's Kingdra,
Golduck can lose to Chuck, beats 4/5 of Goldenrod Rival, beats either Clair's Dragonairs or her Kingdra
Gyarados loses to Jasmine's Magnemite, beats 3/5 of Goldenrod Rival. beats Clair's Dragonairs or her Kingdra and beats 4/5 of Victory Road Rival

Totodile beats 3/5 of Will, 4/5 of Koga, 3-4/5 of Bruno, 2-4/5 of Karen and 2-3/6 of Lance
Kadabra beats 3-4/5 of Will, 4-5/5 of Koga, 5/5 of Bruno,3/5 of Karen and 4/6 of Lance
Golduck beats 3/5 of Will, 3/5 of Koga, 3-4/5 of Bruno, 2-3/5 of Karen and 2-3/6 of Lance
Gyarados beats 2/5 of Will, 4/5 of Koga, 4/5 of Bruno, 2-4/5 of Karen and 2-3/6 of Lance

Totodile loses to Bayleef but can win that with luck as well as 2 Dragonites
Kadabra loses to Gengar, Steelix, Kingra, Umbreon, Houndoom, Gyarados and Aerodactyl
Psyduck only loses to Poliwrath if you're very unlucky,
Gyarados loses to Magnemite, Meganium, Magneton, Machamp and Thunder Dragonite.

Totodile is the best Pokemon after Alakazam but it's not by that much. Psyduck is way better once caught but only a little better once Totodile gets it's final evolution. Totodile definitely needs TM's more than Psyduck but Psyduck is a little backtracking and has a 10% spawn rate. I think Psyduck is the third best Pokemon and deserves S

Before I started I really expected to want Kadabra to be S. After Alakazam it's the best Pokemon for clearing routes. I was unimpressed with it's performance in major battles though. In particular Gengar, Steelix and Kingdra all winning 1v1 against Kadabra makes me believe it should stay A. It being a 10% spawn rate and 50% capture rate doesn't help as well as needing at least 2 elemental punches.

Gyarados is the one that ended up being closest to what I expected. Losing to Magnemite/Magneton isn't a big draw back to me as most teams have multiple Pokemon that want Dig so you should always have something that beats it anyway. Losing to Meganium isn't a big deal because you beat the other starters so you should have a plan for it. Gyarados beats a lot of things but it doesn't beat them as fast as the others so it takes more damage throughout the run. Having 14 Attack DV's and 10 for the rest because it's shiny is great. I believe it should be A but if Kadabra goes to S then it probably could too.

TL:DR

Psyduck A to S

Random Passerby · Mar 11, 2021

From memory, Croconaw sweeps Whitney and Chuck with Rage although you need Mint Berry for Chuck. Even Morty's Gengar can be defeated if you have Mint Berry. For Lance, you'll need Blizzard to sweep though.

Kioskate · Mar 11, 2021

You're right about Rage, I don't know why I didn't think to try it. I checked Lance again as I was saved right before him and Thunder Dragonite did 102/152 while Outrage Dragonite did 76/152 and is faster. Aerodactyl isn't a 1HKO and is faster doing 57/152 with. Same thing with Charizard who does 45/152 with Hyper Beam.

Something else I didn't think of yesterday was I should have been using Icy Wind. Icy Wind + Surf KO Aerodactyl and Charizard which let's me beat 5/6 if I hit 3 Blizzard, which is unlikely.

This isn't to say Totodile is bad of course as I still think it's the second best after Alakazam, I was only testing it so I had a point of reference of what S tier should be like as I have much more experience with Cyndaquil.

Random Passerby · Mar 12, 2021

Kioskate said:
You're right about Rage, I don't know why I didn't think to try it. I checked Lance again as I was saved right before him and Thunder Dragonite did 102/152 while Outrage Dragonite did 76/152 and is faster. Aerodactyl isn't a 1HKO and is faster doing 57/152 with. Same thing with Charizard who does 45/152 with Hyper Beam.

Something else I didn't think of yesterday was I should have been using Icy Wind. Icy Wind + Surf KO Aerodactyl and Charizard which let's me beat 5/6 if I hit 3 Blizzard, which is unlikely.

This isn't to say Totodile is bad of course as I still think it's the second best after Alakazam, I was only testing it so I had a point of reference of what S tier should be like as I have much more experience with Cyndaquil.

Residual damage issues can be solved with an X Speed which brings you to only slower than Aero. Blizzard's accuracy is an issue though as IP isn't strong enough.

Kioskate · Mar 12, 2021

I'm having a hard time understanding how X items are weighed for tiering. It seems like X Accuracy should basically be ignored but X Speed is encouraged. Wouldn't it be better to use X Special with Ice Punch than use Blizzard? With 2 X items a fight Totodile probably sweeps the Elite 4 except for Will so is this how I should be testing?

Random Passerby · Mar 12, 2021

X Accuracy allows some cheesy strategies such as Hypnosis cheese and I'm not going to open the can of worms on that.

X Items for me are fine unless the mon in question needs a lot of them.

Ernesto · Mar 27, 2021

Hi y'all, apologies for the delay but I finally started my Gold run and thought I was at a point where I could post the road so far (I'm at the Radio Tower rn). Btw I did some editing to my last post with a couple different tries, basically with X items. For example Victreebel at level 42 can actually live Xatu's Psychic and set up an X Speed so if you're (very) lucky you can actually sweep, although stuff like early wakes or Quick Attack from the second Xatu can ruin it.

A couple of notes:
- I used Geodude against trainers up until Whitney and then just against wild mons so I could get enough experience for my other members. That sort of coincides with its abrupt drop in performance although it can still sweep Morty and Silver, for example.
- I decided to beat all trainers west of Ecruteak including the Lighthouse before Morty, otherwise my Magmar would've been really underleveled since I got it after Surf (in GS Silver actually fights you right at the entrance to the Burned Tower, so you can't catch a Magmar until later). The fire-spitting duck did amazingly in the Lighthouse since it could OHKO the Poliwhirl and Fearow with ThunderPunch, the only thing I remember doing that well underleveled was Tauros.
- After beating Morty I went east and did the Lake of Rage + Rocket Hideout arc before taking the sea routes, this is important even when you don't need Sludge Bomb because otherwise you're hurting your overall performance by running a Slow mon and two Medium-Fast ones together. Seemingly I might have to fight the Union Cave trainers before Clair since I'm currently at levels 30-31 after Pryce.
- Since you can get it early in GS, I decided to catch a Farfetch'd instead of Kenya for HM duties. I named it REDUX for obvious reasons. I also caught the Red Gyarados in case I can't fit the Water HMs on Lanturn, won't make the same mistake again.

Here's the run:

Geodude (level 11 - 12): Rock Throw OHKOs Pidgey if it hits, Pidgeotto can live in red at level 11. Mud-Slap from Pidgey does 3 damage and Pidgeotto's does 5 (3 after a Defense Curl) so you can lose even with a Berry if you miss too much.
Chikorita (level 13): Razor Leaf and Tackle both 3HKO Pidgey and 5HKO Pidgeotto, it outspeeds both. Pidgeotto's Gust does 6-7/39 damage with Reflect so if you use it the turn before KOing Pidgey you can win reliably even without crits, they never use Mud-Slap.

Best strategy is prolly have Chikorita beat Pidgey and set up Reflect so that Geodude doesn't struggle as much against Pidgeotto.

Bayleef (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Metapod, guaranteed with a crit. Kakuna is 5HKOed by Tackle after a Harden and has Poison Sting so best to avoid. Even with Reflect and Poisonpowder you're just prolonging the inevitable since Scyther's Fury Cutter will end up KOing you before you can do much back. Bad matchup as expected.
Geodude (level 18 - 19): Hit three Rock Throws = GG. Metapod can sometimes live after a Harden but other than that it's three KOs, nothing new here.

Bayleef (level 18): Razor Leaf almost 2HKOs Gastly, guaranteed with a crit. Zubat is 4HKOed by Tackle (note that Bayleef doesn't learn Swift) and does 5 damage back with Leech Life. Razor Leaf is around a 6HKO on Quilava while its Ember does 18-19/56, so very close to a 3HKO. Mediocre matchup.
Geodude (level 19): Hard Stone Rock Throw OHKOs every one of Silver's mons. Any order of Magnitude will OHKO Gastly and 7 and above will defeat Quilava, so the only thing of worry is Zubat's Bite flinching (particularly if you got para'd) or a burn from Quilava, which does 7/48 with Ember. Excellent matchup.

Fought as few trainers as possible so as to not overlevel while getting the Rollout TM.

Bayleef (level 21 - 22): Headbutt and Razor Leaf both 3HKO Clefairy. Miltank is 4HKOed by Razor Leaf so if you set up Reflect before beating Clefairy you can defeat it. A Gold Berry ensures this, but note that it might not 4HKO Tank without Miracle Seed (PoisonPowder can help). Also depending on the damage from Clefairy it can sometimes not activate right before Reflect ends, which is very troll. Note that my Bayleef is female (I literally realized in this fight) so that helps, obviously.
Geodude (level 21 - 22): You 2HKO Clefairy with Rock Throw. Miltank's Stomp stings so you might want to get a Defense Curl before. Needs Magnitude 7 or higher to 3HKO the cow. With CurlOut, you 2HKO Clef and OHKO Miltank on the third hit if you don't get flinched. Be careful of Metronome, otherwise this is a solid matchup.

Interestingly, even though Geodude was male Miltank only used Attract when I had a Reflect up, not with a Defense Curl. Clefairy's Metronome once called Fire Spin and then Roar and another time OHKOed my Bayleef from near full health with Present, lmao.

Mankey (level 22 - 23): Can't touch Haunter without Dig, it outspeeds and generally Licks while you 2HKO with it (OHKO after Curse). Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed by Headbutt. Quilava outspeeds and does a lot with Ember while being 2HKOed back with Dig (anything else fails to). I was left in red after all the damage. Magnemite is KOed with Karate Chop, it might live with 1 HP if you're at level 22.
Bayleef (level 24): Haunter outspeeds and Curses, Razor Leaf barely 4HKOs from full so it can sometimes live two, best to avoid. Zubat is 2HKOed by Headbutt. Magnemite might live three Razor Leafs but doesn't do much back besides annoying you. Tried Mud-Slap for the heck of it, it 2HKOs so not very useful. Quilava is outsped and barely not 3HKOed while Ember also fails to 3HKO from full, however Quick Attack will finish you off. You win 1-on-1 if you flinch, basically.
Chinchou (level 21): Surf is a roll to 2HKO Haunter so you might kill after Curse, you might not. Magnemite is outsped and 2HKOed, still might want to switch out to avoid Curse damage. Zubat is outsped and 2HKOed, watch out for confusion. Quilava outspeeds and can't do much while being 2HKOed back. Basically Surf 2HKOs everything except Haunter sometimes.
Geodude (level 22): Haunter Curses so any order of Magnitude KOs. Zubat dies to Rock Throw and Magnemite to Magnitude, both outspeed and can confuse so watch out. Quilava can live a Rock Throw or Magnitudes lower than 7, however it only threatens you with burns.

Mankey (level 25 - 26): Dig OHKOs Gastly and the first Haunter which is a speedtie. Gengar outspeeds and might Mean Look or Hypnosis, a Mint Berry helps since he has to hit it twice as you 2HKO. After leveling up you OHKO the second Haunter, at 25 you're outsped and it lives so it can Night Shade. Dig is obviously required to actually hurt the Ghosts but solid matchup, I'd say.
Bayleef (level 25): Miracle Seed Razor Leaf 3HKOs Gastly so I think we know where this is going. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs so it dies after Curse. The first Haunter is 3HKOed and can put you to sleep or Curse. Gengar is faster and is like a 6HKO so no point. The second Haunter outspeeds and barely doesn't 3HKO with Night Shade from full (Bayleef has 75 HP) while being 4HKOed back.
Magmar (level 24 - 25): Fire Punch KOs Gastly and, after leveling up, the first Haunter. Gengar is outsped (I'm 59 Speed) and 2HKOed so its only hope is to hit a Hypnosis. Mint Berry takes care of that. Haunter can live if you're not Charcoal and do some damage with Night Shade before dropping. Note that Gengar outspeeds and lives two Fire Punches if you're at level 24.
Chinchou (level 24): Gastly drops to Surf, Haunter is faster and can Curse or Hypnosis as you 2HKO. Gengar is barely 3HKOed so you need it to miss a couple of Hypnosis, you can always T-Wave it first. Doable but needs luck. The second Haunter is 2HKOed while Chinchou lives three Night Shades from full. Positive matchup since it can definitely beat the three non-Gengar.
Geodude (level 24 - 25): Tried it as Geodude first. Gastly outspeeds and Curses before dying. Haunter can Hypnosis or Night Shade and drops to a Magnitude 6 or higher. Gengar for some reason prefers Mean Look over Shadow Ball and is OHKOed by Magnitude 7 or higher. If you still have the Mint Berry intact you can KO no problem. The second Haunter also dies to Magnitude 6. Good matchup even before evolving.
Graveler (level 25): You're still slower than Gastly which Curses. Haunter nº 1 now drops to Magnitude 5 too. Then for some reason comes Haunte nº 2, which can live a Magnitude 5 and Night Shade. Even after taking two Night Shades (and being at 19 HP) Gengar doesn't Shadow Ball, apparently it only does when it's super effective. It still lives the Magnitude 6 so the only difference with Geodude is the first Haunter.

Primeape (level 29): You 2HKO opposing Primeape with BlackBelt Karate Chop. Poliwrath seems to be a 4HKO and can put you to sleep or 2HKO with DynamicPunch (you barely live at -1) so you need a lot of luck to win. Since Return is still weak I tried Pink Bow Strength and it's also a 4HKO so same deal.
Bayleef (level 29): Razor Leaf only 4HKOs Primeape but Headbutt 3HKOs reliably. Return is also a 3HKO. Razor Leaf also 3HKOs Poliwrath, who you outspeed and can use Reflect to minimize DynamicPunch's damage. As always, Mint Berry helps in case he puts you to sleep or Bitter Berry to not get screwed over by confusion.
Magmar (level 29): Fire Punch 2HKOs Primeape ez pz, worst it can do is Leer. Magnet ThunderPunch appears to be a bad roll to 2HKO Poliwrath and it likes to use Mind Reader for some reason instead of Surf. DynamicPunch OHKOs at -1, other than that I call this a solid matchup since AI is bad.
Lanturn (level 29): Surf 2HKOs, while Magnet Spark + Surf comes very close to so you might be able to outspeed the second turn and KO. If it uses Leer you should switch out because DynamicPunch will sting (it does around 50/114 otherwise). You outspeed Wrath and it barely lives two Magnet Sparks so you might as well use a Mint Berry for sleep. Good matchup, I'd say.
Graveler (level 29): Two Magnitudes 7 or higher 2HKO Primeape who likes to Leer or Rage, Karate Chop 3HKOs. Lol Poliwrath.

Poliwrath relies on hax so it's hard to decide between Mint Berry for sleep or Bitter Berry for confusion, so pick your poison. Magmar has a more solid chance of 2HKOing but both Bayleef and Lanturn win more reliably since they don't risk dying in one hit.

Magmar (level 30): Ember or Fire Punch OHKOs the Magnemite. Steelix lives the FP in low red and does around 50/84 with Rock Throw. Not perfect matchup since it dies to a crit but pretty solid as expected.
Lanturn (level 29 - 30): Everything is 2HKOed by Surf, however Steelix uses Sunny Day and can proc Hyper Potion so it becomes a 3HKO. Rock Throw does 20/118 back, so 1/6. Best way to do it is setting up rain on the first Mag and then OHKOing everything, a paralysis berry is recommended. Great matchup outside of parahax.
Bayleef (level 30): Razor Leaf is like a 5HKO on Magnemite, pointless. Mud-Slap barely 2HKOs and you get para'd. Steelix is around a 5HKO with Razor Leaf and can proc Hyper Potion, also Iron Tail stings without Reflect. Poor matchup.
Meganium (level 32): I'm dumb and saved over every single one so I had to sac all my team to Steelix so I could try facing Pryce first. Don't be like me, kids. Razor Leaf now 3HKOs the Magnemite but they still annoy with para. Mud-Slap 2HKOs and can make it miss T-Wave. Steelix is very close to a 3HKO with Razor Leaf so you can potentially beat it with Reflect (since Iron Tail does about a fifth), however an untimely crit can proc Hyper Potion and screw you over. Two consecutive crits kill, obviously, and Mud-Slap can help clinch the KO and avoid Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup all-in-all but winnable.
Primeape (level 29): Karate Chop OHKOs both Magnemite, however it only 5HKOs Steelix which brings you to low yellow with Iron Tail. Black Belt DynamicPunch isn't quite a 2HKO but it becomes one after a self-hit, obviously you need to be very lucky. I also tried Fire Punch, it's a 3HKO so it procs Hyper Potion but it can burn to soften up the Iron Tails. Mediocre matchup, KOing the Magnemite isn't that great.
Graveler (level 29): Magnitude obviously KOs the Mags, Supersonic is annoying tho so you might want to give it a Bitter Berry. Steelix is outsped and 4HKOed by Magnitude 7 (3HKO with 8) and Iron Tail OHKOs back, bad matchup I'd say. At least you outspeed the steel snake.

Bayleef (level 31): Seel is 2HKOed by Razor Leaf and can Icy Wind which makes you slower than Dewgong so you should switch out. Dewgong's own Icy Wind + Aurora Beam almost 2HKOs (left me in red and would've killed if Seel had Aurora Beam'd) while Razor Leaf 3HKOs, you can win if you get the para from Body Slam. If you're at full it spams Aurora Beam which 3HKOs so you beat it. Piloswine outspeeds you at -1 and finishes you off. If you're at full you 2HKO while living a Blizzard with 20/92 HP, however it seems to like to Icy Wind which can kill you after the drop. You can beat Seel and one of the other two without healing, not a very good matchup.
Meganium (level 32): You still don't OHKO Seel (maybe I have bad DVs? I dunno) but you do 2HKO Dewgong and you can actually live Piloswine's Blizzard from 60/107 HP—albeit with one 1 HP left. Possible sweep without healing, much moreso considering Blizzard will often miss.
Magmar (level 30): ThunderPunch doesn't OHKO Seel and is a roll to 2HKO Dewgong (guaranteed with Magnet), however since you take no damage it's fine. Piloswine can live the Fire Punch if you don't have Charcoal but doesn't do anything back. Excellent matchup.
Lanturn (level 30 - 31): Seel lives the Magnet Spark (I'm starting to see a trend here), then Piloswine comes and tanks the Surf but doesn't do much back with Fury Attack, you'll need to hit it thrice because of Hyper Potion. It's a roll with MysticWater. Dewgong does even less than against Magmar and is 2HKOed after leveling up, otherwise it's a 3HKO. I finished in high green, excellent matchup.
Primeape (level 30): Any physical move 2HKOs Seel, Headbutt is best because of flinch. Karate Chop puts Dewgong in low yellow/red health while Aurora Beam does 20/90 damage, doesn't even 2HKO with crits lol. Piloswine is 2HKOed, sometimes it procs Hyper Potion and sometimes it doesn't. For some reason it spams Mist, but even if it Blizzards it only does 40 damage. Fantastic matchup. DynamicPunch obviously OHKOs everything but I'd rather try to crit Karate Chop thrice than use it.
Graveler (level 29): Seel is a speedtie, you need Magnitude 9 to OHKO it so you're most likely getting hit. Piloswine comes in and outspeeds and OHKOs with Blizzard, you don't even 2HKO back. Against Dewgong they 2HKO each other but it wins because it's faster. The only way you're doing anything besides killing Seel is if you set up both X Speed and Rollout without getting a speed drop, it's a roll to 2HKO Seel but you need the fourth hit to OHKO Piloswine (so either hit Seel three times or hope for a Blizzard miss). Dewgong appears to be a speed tie but if you're at a higher level you shouldn't have issues—well, besides everything else.

Some thoughts:

-

Chikorita did very well against Falkner thanks to Reflect and the fact he doesn't use Mud-Slap on it, however once it evolved the problems started.

Bayleef has two poor matchups against Bugsy and Silver, then against Whitney it puts in some work with Reflect and PoisonPowder but it can still lose to Miltank's Rollout since you don't do enough damage to prevent it from increasing in power. Once Reflect runs out it's GG. Morty is obviously terrible, Chuck is better luckily. Jasmine and Pryce are only possible if you're Meganium, which isn't guaranteed, and Jasmine isn't particularly good either. Also Silver's team appears to be specifically designed as a fuck you to it, like seriously, everything resists Grass STAB in fights two and three. At this point it's hard to see it rising to B since it lacks what made Victreebel so amazing midgame, Clair and the E4 might make me change my mind.
-

Geodude actually does worse against Falkner than I remembered, specifically because Rock Throw isn't a guaranteed KO on Pidgeotto at level 11 and Mud-Slap is a real (mud-)slap in the face. Bugsy, Silver, and Whitney are much better matchups (Silver is the exact opposite of Chikorita, everything is weak to its STABs) and it can even beat Morty before evolving.

Graveler then falls hard in the next three matchups, only KOing Jasmine's Magnemite and being OHKOed by Poliwrath's Surf, Steelix's Iron Tail and Piloswine's Blizzard. It has a very small chance of sweeping Pryce with X Speed and Rollout, it'd be better if it weren't for Icy Wind and the fact that Seel can be 2HKOed which makes Pilo live the third hit. It's very hard to tier a mon with such high highs and such low lows.
-

Mankey is a fun critter, without the Dig TM it can't touch Morty's gym but with it it rocks, even 2HKOing Gengar if holding a Mint Berry.

Primeape has a so-so matchup against Chuck (its strongest move is Strength and Poliwrath wrecks if it hits the DynamicPunch, didn't try ThunderPunch sadly) and Jasmine's Steelix does too much back, although you can win with Fire Punch or D-Punch. Pryce's mons are all 2HKOed by Karate Chop so that's an improvement. What can't be denied is that it lacks a powerful neutral STAB outside of DynamicPunch and that should never be your main move, Karate Chop is really weak when it's not critting. The fact that Cross Chop is unobtainable (unlike for MUSCLE who should get to level 43 in the E4) makes me doubt it'll be strong enough to 2HKO Karen's Umbreon and therefore can't see it higher than C atm.
-

Chinchou is super weak when first caught, only 4HKOing the Kimono Girl's Flareon, however that improves once you get Surf and you realize it's faster and almost as strong as Croconaw. Its Morty matchup isn't great but after evolving into

Lanturn it rocks Chuck, Jasmine, and Pryce consecutively. It's really fat too, its biggest fault is its Speed which doesn't improve upon evolution but so far it hasn't caused it any issues (that should change at the E4). Similarly, the Slow experience group on its own isn't a big deal, but when you have three mons with slower level curves that's annoying. For now it's a very solid B, could be A but lack of Ice coverage will definitely suck against Lance. I'm gonna buy the Thunder TM as soon as I can, I'm at the Radio Tower and have almost 109,000 so I'm really really close lmao. I prolly could've gotten it for Pryce if I sold some items but I didn't really need it.
-

Magmar is so freaking good OMG. Caught at level 14 already with Fire Punch, gave it TPunch and swept all the trainers at the Lighthouse plus some others I'd left around. At level 25 it outspeeds and 2HKOs Morty's Gengar, impressive. Then it beats Chuck's Poliwrath because AI is bad and doesn't Surf, instead privileging Mind Reader or Hypnosis (or DynamicPunch if Primeape Leer'd at you). Jasmine's Steelix is destroyed and can only 2HKO with Rock Throw and Pryce can't even attempt to harm you. S performance so far, my biggest fear is being underleveled and not getting Flamethrower for the E4 which would definitely hurt it.

That's it for now, will update later!

EDIT: Oh I forgot, the other day I was checking previous runs I'd saved and remembered how much fun I'd had with a couple of mons, namely VOLTY and the Mystery Egg Cleffa. I think VOLTY might have a shot at C since it's really fast and with ThunderDance it's not lacking in power. Granted, you need to be able to buy it and that'll happen around the Radio Tower (which means no Thunder for Chuck and possibly Pryce's Water-types) and lack of STAB before that sucks, but I remember getting it post Pryce and it leveling up really fast, meaning I had no trouble getting it up to speed. Regarding Cleffa, it's obviously not gonna rise because Mystery Egg mechanics suck but it made me think that Jigglypuff might be good enough for C since Wigglytuff has the same Attack stat as Clefable and only a bit lower Special Attack (its Speed sucks, though). In GS you can get it very early, too, which means stronger Return. Does anyone have any experience with VOLTY and Jiggly?

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