Gengar (Full Revamp) +

[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast / Focus Punch
move 4: Thunderbolt / Explosion
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Hasty
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This is one of the most common Gengar sets, and a fine set it is. With three immunities, Gengar is rarely short of opportunities to switch in safely and in contrast not many things can safely switch into it. Once in, Gengar can then incapacitate an opponent with Hypnosis, then proceed to devastate the rest of the opponents team with it's unresisted type coverage and impressive Special Attack stat. With Life Orb and a neutral nature Gengar is capable of 2HKOing the standard Snorlax as well as 3HKOing the standard Blissey (4HKO if Blissey invests in a fair amount of Special Defence EVs) with Focus Blast. However, if the accuracy of Focus Blast puts you off, then you can always switch to Focus Punch which can easily OHKO an incoming Tyranitar or Weavile and will also 2HKO Blissey and Snorlax. Explosion is also listed as an option that helps Gengar go out with a bang after Life Orb and other residual damage slowly wear you down. With 40 Attack EVs and a neutral nature you OHKO Blissey after factoring in Stealth Rock damage, but if you feel the need to go the extra mile to OHKO Blissey without any sort of residual damage then you would have to invest 136 EVs into Attack.

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Trick
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Thunderbolt
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Odd though it may seem to use Choice Scarf on something as fast as Gengar, this set has some very alluring advantages. Gengar's varied movepool lets it act as an effective revenge killer against some of the biggest threats in the game; Azelf, Tyranitar, Gyarados (including bulky varieties),and Salamence will all fall in one hit to their corresponding moves without significant defensive investment. Choice Scarf Gengar is by no means a counter to such Pokemon, but it can easily save you the match should you make an error and let your Gyarados counter be KOed by something like Pursuit.</p>

<p> When you're finally tired of or no longer need to revenge kill any of your opponent's Pokemon Gengar can then relieve itself of the penalties of its Choice Scarf at the expense of one of your opponents Pokemon with the move Trick which in turn also cripples most of Gengars common switchins like Blissey and Snorlax swapping their Leftovers for your Choice Scarf and more or less making them a burden for your opponent for the remainder of the match. </p>

<p>If your team already has sufficient coverage against one of the aforementioned threats, feel free to swap an attack from your final slot out for Hypnosis or Destiny Bond, which will give Gengar the capacity to stop most other opponents in their tracks. Explosion (preferably used with a Mild or Hasty nature) allows you to revenge kill a large number of Pokemon with one move as well, but don't expect to beat Blissey without a significant amount of investment in Attack or some previous damage. A Timid nature might seem like true overkill, but it does let you get the jump on other Scarf Gengar or anything sitting around that level. Since most Pokemon near that Speed will be fragile enough to be defeated in one hit possessing a Speed advantage can easily net you a surprise KO.</p>

<p> Alternatively, this moveset is also ideal for Choice Specs Gengar. With such high Speed and Special Attack stats, Choice Specs is indeed a fearsome item on an opposing Gengar. In comparison to the Choice Scarf set, you won't be outspeeding Pokemon like Weavile or a once Dragon Danced Salamence here, but you'll pack way more power so neither can afford to switch in safely, nor can much else. Timid is the nature of choice here, as without a Choice Scarf you're going to want Gengar to be outspeeding as much as possible.</p>

[SET]
Name: Substitute
Move 1: Focus Punch / Focus Blast
Move 2: Substitute
Move 3: Shadow Ball
Move 4: Hypnosis / Will-O-Wisp
Item: Expert Belt
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Hasty

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Gengar is specifically built to deal with threats that are supposed “counters” to the standard Gengar. Blissey, Snorlax, Calm Zapdos, and bulky Fighters like Machamp and Hariyama all have serious issues with this set. </p>

<p>182 Attack is needed to score a guaranteed 2HKO on Blissey and Snorlax with Stealth Rock support and easily scores an OHKO on Tyranitar. 350 Speed is a must, both to have a possibility of keeping the Substitute intact when faced with other Gengar, and to outspeed opposing Infernape.</p>

<p>Since Blissey, Snorlax and other Gengar counters can easily break the Substitute, Hypnosis becomes vital to Gengar's strategy. Gengar will Substitute first turn, and Hypnosis on the turn that the Substitute is supposed to be broken, both to possibly induce Sleep and to ensure that the 60% accuracy of Hypnosis will not be as big a deterrent, as it now has two chances to hit as opposed to one. Once the opponent is safely asleep and Gengar is behind its Substitute, it can begin to wreak havoc with the unresisted type coverage provided by Focus Punch and Shadow Ball. Will-O-Wisp works well as an alternative to Hypnosis if you still feel skeptical about its 60% accuracy as it wears down Pokemon like Zapdos and Blissey and will severly hamper other common switch-ins like Snorlax, Metagross and Scizor.</p>

<p>Expert Belt is chosen over Leftovers for one main reason. It saves Gengar from having to transfer a significant amount of Special Attack EVs into Attack (because Blissey and Snorlax are hit Super Effective by Focus Punch), which would significantly lower Shadow Ball's damage on common neutral threats like Salamence and Gyarados. Having no Leftovers is also a non-issue since Gengar rarely will be in battle long enough in order to spend 4 Substitutes, as it switches in using its immunities and almost always grants a switch to one of its standard counters.</p>

<p>Running Focus Blast instead of Focus Punch is also a possibility. While this reduces Gengar's effectiveness against Blissey and Snorlax, it allows Gengar to hit Heatran, Skarmory, and Scizor for much more damage. The recommended EV spread here is a simple 252 SpA / 252 Spe split, with Timid as the recommended nature. Leftovers is also now much more viable as an item here as you don’t have to worry about missing out on the 2HKO against Blissey and Snorlax</p>

[SET]
name: Double Status
move 1: Hypnosis
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Focus Blast / Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers / Wide Lens
nature: Timid
evs: 108 HP / 150 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set focuses primarily on statusing your opponents. It has both status moves and some additional HP EVs so that it can aim to cripple as much of the opponent’s team as possible. The EVs are not set in stone and can be varied to suit your personal needs; this is just a general spread that allows for a solid gain from Leftovers. If you are concerned about the accuracy of Hypnosis, Will-O-Wisp, and Focus Blast, you can use Wide Lens for a slight accuracy boost.</p>

[SET]
name: Focus Sash
move 1: Counter
move 2: Hypnosis
move 3: Explosion / Destiny Bond
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Focus Sash
nature: Hasty / Timid
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This moveset can potentially cripple half of your opponent's team if it is used correctly. You start by Countering an obvious OHKO move from a Pokémon like Weavile. That's one Pokémon down already. If you are feeling lucky, you can attempt to put another Pokémon to sleep with Hypnosis. The last objective on the mission is to Explode on or Destiny Bond the third Pokémon. It is pretty simple, but Sand Stream really ruins it.</p>

<p>A risky set, which is only generally useful as a lead especially with Stealth Rock on so many leads, but it can be very effective under the right circumstances.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Sludge Bomb was left out of the main sets, as it offers rather poor type coverage despite being Gengar’s most powerful attack. Most Grass-types won't enjoy a hit from Shadow Ball (especially Celebi), and are unlikely to stay in on Gengar, as Gengar resists their main STAB attacks.</p>

<p>Gengar has Energy Ball and Giga Drain to hammer Swampert and Rhyperior, if either is a problem for your team. Hidden Power Fire allows Gengar to OHKO Scizor, one of its most common switch-ins as well as damage other Steel-types like Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi more than any of its other moves. Psychic hurts Fighters more than Gengar's other attacks, but most of them won't enjoy boosted Shadow Balls, so it still remains a lesser option. </p>

<p>Mean Look can trap an opponent so you can Explode on them and Perish Song can phaze opponents. However, don't be tempted to use both Mean Look and Perish Song together, as Mismagius' superior defenses generally make it a better option for that strategy unless you really need the extra Spped. Taunt can prevent Blissey from firing off Thunder Waves and Toxics, allowing you to switch in your physical attackers without fearing status.</p>

<p>Because of Gengar's plethora of attacks, Expert Belt is a fine option. It allows Gengar to hit harder, but without the 10% recoil that Life Orb inflicts. If you're playing under Item Clause, you can use Black Sludge over Leftovers.</p>

[EVs]

<p>341 Speed (216 EVs) outruns max Speed Adamant Dugtrio and Timid Mismagius. 347 beats max Speed Infernape, while maxing your Speed gives you the chance to win the coin flip against opposing Gengar. 204 Speed EVs is a good point to aim for on Choice Scarf sets so Gengar will outrun Adamant once Dragon Danced Salamence and positive natured Choice Scarfed base 90 Pokemon, though max Speed is generally preferable to tie with other Choice Scarf Gengar. A Timid nature allows you to outspeed up to positive natured base 105 Pokemon You can however opt to use a Hasty or Naïve nature if you want to use Explosion. </p>

<p>An Attack stat of 200 (Hasty or Naive nature, 136 EVs) is required to guarantee an OHKO on 252 HP / 252 Defense Bold Blissey with a Life Orb Explosion. </p>

[Opinion]

<p>Gengar is one of the most unpredictable Pokémon you will encounter. It has an excellent movepool backed up with great Speed and impressive Special Attack. Although Gengar's defenses are awful, its immunity to the popular Ground and Fighting attacks allows it plenty of opportunities to come in and wreak havoc.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Anything with Pursuit will really ruin Gengar especially choiced variants, although Weavile and Tyranitar fear Focus Blast and Will-O-Wisp, and Metagross won't enjoy a burn or repeated hits from Shadow Ball / Focus Blast (which can 2HKO with Choice Specs). If Tyranitar has 252 HP / 216 Special Defense, Careful, it will always survive Timid Gengar's Life Orb Focus Blast. If it has 252 HP / 128 Special Defense, it will survive Modest Choice Scarf Gengar all the time. Beware of Choice Scarf Heracross's Pursuit, especially if it switches into a Will-O-Wisp. Spiritomb has both Pursuit and Sucker Punch and plenty of Special Defense to absorb Gengar's attacks. Be wary of Sucker Punch and / or Pursuit from various other less common opponents as well, like Absol, Drapion, and Toxicroak.</p>

<p>Scizor also makes an excellent counter to Gengar as it resists its STAB move and isn’t weak to any other moves Gengar will normally have. Once in Scizor has either the option of Pursuiting a fleeing Gengar or Bullet Punching it if it chooses to stay in. However, despite how good of a counter Scizor may be to the more generic Gengar sets it still has to be wary of less common moves like Will-O-Wisp and Hidden Power Fire.</p>

<p>Blissey does fine against most sets, paralyzing with Thunder Wave and wearing Gengar down with whichever special attack (Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt) she happens to carry. Snorlax with Crunch does a fine job, especially Sleep Talk versions as they can absorb Hypnosis. Snorlax can also put the hurt on Gengar by packing Pursuit. Beware of Focus Punch, Focus Blast, and Explosion though.</p>

<p>Jirachi and Bronzong both do well if they avoid a burn. In the case of the former, even Will-O-Wisp won't trouble it too much if it carries Psychic rather than Zen Headbutt. Heatran (especially Choice Scarf versions) can switch into everything barring a Fighting attack, and gets a boost from the occasional Will-O-Wisp or Hidden Power Fire. Even without a boost, Fire Blast will OHKO most Gengar.</p>

<p>Gengar's attacking power and incredible movepool mean that countering it is a rather daunting prospect. Thankfully, Gengar is incredibly fragile and most neutral attacks will at least score a 2HKO.</p>
 

Scofield

Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh, Kate.......
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
I hate to bump such an old thread, but when do you think this will be done by? It's been a week. Either way, I'm still looking forward to this.
 
May I post one suggestion?

Gengar @Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Speed
Timid / Modest

~ Shadow Ball
~ Destiny Bond
~ Thunderbolt
~ Focus Blast / HP {Ice}

Because of the rising of Scizor, the Focus Sash will be one of the best choices. Scizor will Attack you with Bullet Punch, probably the focus sash will activate itself and you're going to use Destiny Bond to avert the next Bullet Punch und scare Scizor away. If you predict the switch correctly, that 'strategy' could be "devestating" (lol). Correct me, if i am wrong.

Thunderbolt is always a good option to defeat Gyarados and friends. Focus Blast for Lucario (Before it crunches / bullet punches you), Weavile (Scizor exaple), Heatran and so on.

If you're scard from the accuary of Focus Blast you can use HP Ice to kill Salamence immediately, Flygon (Maybe OU in Platin?) etc.
----
I hope that is a useful 'revamp' for Gengar. Hope for improvements / critism.
 
why don't you just use hp fire because they won't bullet punch you again after you've used destiny bond anyway?
 
Okay HP Fire would be a good opportunity for Scizor and some other Pokés, yeah. I had the thought of HP Ice on Gengar, thats why I didnt mentioned HP Fire.
 
IMO Destiny Bond is still other options unless it is on the counter sash set, in which it can be used over Explosion simply for personal preferance. It would be good to see this done sometime soon. Reserved by a badgeholder and all.
 
Gengar @Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Speed
Timid / Modest

~ Shadow Ball
~ Destiny Bond
~ Thunderbolt
~ Focus Blast / HP {Ice}
wouldn't you be better off just investing in some defense EV's so that scizor cant OHKO and then having a more useful item like choice scarf or life orb?
 
wouldn't you be better off just investing in some defense EV's so that scizor cant OHKO and then having a more useful item like choice scarf or life orb?
68 EV for Def is way too much i guess. I used Netbattle to calculate the damage.

90 Basepower with 591 Attack (Choice Band Scizor)
With 68 Def EVs (173 Def) 84% - 99% damage
With 64 Def EVs (172 Def) 85% - 100% damage
...
...
 
Or you could just use CounterSash, to OHKO the Scizor back after it attacks and your Focus Sash keeps you alive.
 

Scofield

Ooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhh, Kate.......
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
I don't think focus punch/focus blast works on the same set. You should just make a separate set for special sub gengar. This is also because it can utilize trick in that last slot (make it hypnosis/trick) with black sludge, which can still screw up a wall. Also, it uses a completely different ev spread/nature.
 

Havak

I'm the Best. You're a Towel.
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<p>This is one of the most common Gengar sets, and a fine set it is. With three immunities, Gengar is rarely short of opportunities to switch in safely and in contrast not many things can safely switch into it. Once in, Gengar can incapacitate an opponent with Hypnosis, and then proceed to devastate the rest of the opponent’s team with its unresisted type coverage and impressive Special Attack stat. With Life Orb and a neutral nature Gengar is capable of 2HKOing the standard Snorlax as well as 3HKOing the standard Blissey (4HKO if Blissey invests in a fair amount of Special Defence EVs) with Focus Blast. However, if the accuracy of Focus Blast puts you off, then you can always switch to Focus Punch which can easily OHKO an incoming Tyranitar or Weavile and will also 2HKO Blissey and Snorlax. Explosion is also listed as an option that helps Gengar go out with a bang after Life Orb and other residual damage slowly wear you down. With 40 Attack EVs and a neutral nature you OHKO Blissey after factoring in Stealth Rock damage, but if you feel the need to go the extra mile to OHKO Blissey without any sort of residual damage then you would have to invest 136 EVs into Attack.</p>
its > it's.
opponent's > opponents.
Slightly edited a sentence to make it sound beter.
Needed the </p> tag.

<p>Odd though it may seem to use Choice Scarf on something as fast as Gengar, this set has some very alluring advantages. Gengar's varied movepool lets it act as an effective revenge killer against some of the biggest threats in the game; Azelf, Tyranitar, Gyarados (including bulky varieties), and Salamence will all fall in one hit to their corresponding moves without significant defensive investment. Choice Scarf Gengar is by no means a counter to such Pokemon, but it can easily save you the match should you make an error and let your Gyarados counter be KOed by something like Pursuit.</p>

<p> When you're finally tired of or no longer need to revenge kill any of your opponent's Pokemon Gengar can then relieve itself of the penalties of its Choice Scarf at the expense of one of your opponents Pokemon with the move Trick which in turn also cripples most of Gengars common switch ins like Blissey and Snorlax swapping their Leftovers for your Choice Scarf and more or less making them a burden for your opponent for the remainder of the match. </p>
Spacing error before "and".
switch ins > switchins.

Personally, I'd prefer the set to look more like this:

name: Choice
move 1: Shadow Ball
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Trick
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Since Scarf is the most noted, revenge killing everything at once is the main objective IMO. So all the moves should be listed as such. I do like to see Hypnosis on the set, but as you pretty much say yourself, Destiny Bond and Explosion are just as worthy.

I'd love to go through the rest of it, but I really need to get some sleep now since I have to be up relatively early. If no one else has sifted through this by the time I get another chance to look, I'll go through the rest of it as well. Looking good though, while not much has changed drastically.
 
Although it is mentioned very Briefly on the last set, I don't see why Destiny Bond shouldn't be in other options either. It can tag on most sets really and grab you a surprise kill here and there.
 
I'm going to go ahead and upload this, the site is long-overdue (I fixed Havak's grammar edits but didn't change anything else).
 
Don't know if you're looking for mistakes, but might aswell point them out.

[Other Options]

<p>Sludge Bomb was left out of the main sets, as it offers rather poor type coverage despite being Gengar’s most powerful attack. Most Grass-types won't enjoy a hit from Shadow Ball (especially Celebi), and are unlikely to stay in on Gengar, as Gengar resists their main STAB attacks.</p>

<p>Gengar has Energy Ball and Giga Drain to hammer Swampert and Rhyperior, if either is a problem for your team. Hidden Power Fire allows Gengar to OHKO Scizor, one of its most common switch-ins as well as damage other Steel-types like Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi more than any of its other moves. Psychic hurts Fighters more than Gengar's other attacks, but most of them won't enjoy boosted Shadow Balls, so it still remains a lesser option. </p>

<p>Mean Look can trap an opponent so you can Explode on them and Perish Song can phaze opponents. However, don't be tempted to use both Mean Look and Perish Song together, as Mismagius' superior defenses generally make it a better option for that strategy unless you really need the extra Spped. Taunt can prevent Blissey from firing off Thunder Waves and Toxics, allowing you to switch in your physical attackers without fearing status.</p>
Hang on, found a mistype. Nitpick, but still a mistake. Spelled Speed wrong.
 
OK, OK, listen, this is crazy, but in other options, please say something about Trick and Black Sludge. Taking the Leftovers from Blissey and giving it Black Sludge is a HUGE deal. As a matter of fact, it can actually allow Gengar to beat it one on one the next time Blissey comes in to wall you. What's more is you still have your Leftovers recovery.

Gengar's Timid Focus Blast does a paltry 24.58-29.03% to 0/176 Calm Blissey. However, when Blissey takes 12% from Stealth Rocks, loses 12% more from Black Sludge, the damage adds up quickly.

When switching in:
100% - 12% -24% - 12%

Next turn:
50% - 24% - 12%

Blissey is left with 16% health MAXIMUM provided both Focus Blasts hit.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
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...Which can still be Wished off, and the low accuracy still bites it in the ass. It's a decent option, but doesn't exactly let it beat Blissey one on one...
 
I got a suggestion

Gengar @ Petaya Berry
Name: sub ya??? (sub petaya)
move 1: substitute
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt/ HP Ice
item: Petaya Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ivs: 30 Hp
The trick here is to keep subbing until the berry activates. Gengar is already faster than most pokemon in the ou environment so just boost the monstrous special attack. This is best used if anything faster than Gengar is at least weakened. If played right this has the potential to sweep entire teams. Shadow ball for stab, Focus blast so you aren’t walled by Bliss and the last one is just for coverage, I suggest t-bolt though because if a Gyarados gets a dragon dance your in trouble.
 
That last set got me thinking why such a sinister pokemon like Gengar didnt recieve nasty plot, on another note the set below looks like it has potential, but LOGar provides the pretty much the same effect netting a special attack a deal lower than gegnar but gengar stats are set at what it needs to kill, with all the LOBPSDScizors (Life Orb, Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, Scizors) running Gengar cant risk being at such low HP for 1 kill at most, not to mention all the Sandstorm, i think its decent enough for elaboration, but its counters are so numerous it'd rarely be used.
 
I got a suggestion

Gengar @ Petaya Berry
Name: sub ya??? (sub petaya)
move 1: substitute
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt/ HP Ice
item: Petaya Berry
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ivs: 30 Hp
The trick here is to keep subbing until the berry activates. Gengar is already faster than most pokemon in the ou environment so just boost the monstrous special attack. This is best used if anything faster than Gengar is at least weakened. If played right this has the potential to sweep entire teams. Shadow ball for stab, Focus blast so you aren’t walled by Bliss and the last one is just for coverage, I suggest t-bolt though because if a Gyarados gets a dragon dance your in trouble.
Written very poorly, and the comment above was trash.

This set doesn't even make any sense. Focus Blast isn't really worth it, you will still be walled by Blissey, and Thunderbolt is useful, but not just for that.

The point of pinch-berry sets is to abuse a stat-up move while Substituting, which Gengar doesn't have. Pointless, maybe someone with better writing skills could re-do this.
 

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