repost of this post for a new page:
To clarify on our thought process for some of these steps, and especially on what we're waiting for:
Natures will most likely be Lv3 or Lv4. The main factors driving this is that we don't want Pokemon to have their Nature until they've been "test-driven" in the earlier levels, or else it makes buying Pokemon more difficult. If people are frequently having to pay to re-Nature their Pokemon because they didn't get to play the Pokemon enough before choosing, that's an issue design-wise. The same is true of Hidden Ability: We want each of Levels 2, 3, and 4 to give one of Nature, Hidden Ability, and Hidden Power.
That last bit is important, because we can't assign Hidden Power to a Level just yet.
Move-tiering work is some of the last work we'll do before Gen 9 Launch, by necessity. Gen 9 will bring us new moves anyway, which many result in other moves rising or falling in Level. For example, if more countermeasures to Endure are added to the game, Endure could become lower in level. So we won't know what Level to put Hidden Power in for sure (and by extension, what level Nature and Hidden Ability are unlocked) until we have the new moves in front of us for tiering.
The main things guiding our process, as determined by NB, is that:
- Moves should exist in the same tier as their counter-moves, and
- Moves that provide the exact same functionality should be in the same level; while upgraded versions of other moves will typically be higher than their base versions, and
- Pokemon in each Level should be equipped to viably punch up to one Level above their own without being a liability.
For example, we may decide that Pokemon learn Phazing moves at Lv1, Partial Trapping at Lv2, Pivoting at Lv3, and Full Trapping at Lv4, if we wanted a Pokemon's suite of match-up control tools to grow and evolve as they Level up. What each of these "pillars" (broad categories of moves sharing a function) end up being, and what exact level each member of a pillar becomes, will depend on what Scarlet and Violet offer us to work with.
Levels 2, 3, and 4 won't be purchasable. The ability to buy these levels was a band-aid solution to having to grind Realgams and Trees, coin-tossing for match-ups you could win until you won your Stage. With EXP, even in a bad match-up you can play to squeeze as much of your next Level out of the battle as you can. Then, if you had earned, say, 80% of a Level, you could either rerun for the rest or just move on to the next-Level facility and earn the rest as you go.
Driving the above; Only Stage 5-granting facilities will retain their difficulty. You can expect facilities to gently curve both new and veteran players into this "end-game" difficulty. In development, we've referred to these facilities as being "Level 2, 3, 4, and 5" based on what they grant; however, I think calling them by the level of Pokemon that are allowed entry is better. So, loosely:
- Battles for Level 0 (unevolved) Pokemon are "Early-game". Only the very most basic moves are in this Level, since players are still learning how to post orders and substitutions at a fundamental level. Any battle at all, win or lose, will evolve your Pokemon at this stage of play. So, this Level will pass very quickly. We're deciding if non-evolving Pokemon even experience this stage of play at all; starting your BBP career with a Heracross is battle-warping, but very very few of your battles will be Level 0, and Heracross vs. Cubchoo is very funny.
- Level 1, 2, and 3 Facilities make up the "Leveling" tier of content. These are for learning the game and deepening your experience as a player piloting the Pokemon. Our hope is that, as you level each Pokemon and earn its Movepool in an intentionally-designed progression, you'll enjoy seeing that Pokemon grow into its unique strengths, and get lots of chances to learn its unique tricks and tools as you play.
- Facilities for Level 4 Pokemon are "End-Game". Level 4 Pokemon have finished their movepool and have their Nature, their Hidden Power type, and their Hidden Ability. They are fully battle-ready. End-Game content is where these Pokemon battle their advanced challenges to earn their ability to Mega Evolve, to use Z-Moves, or any such technique we decide we're willing to write for addition to BBP.
- "Level 5" or "Pinnacle" content is what we're calling "Post-Game". For players whose Pokemon have their advanced techniques on deck. This is intended to give players something with serious bite to use their Megas, Z-Moves, and TLG Legendaries on.
Pokemon who have "entered Leveling" by becoming Level 1 will become ineligible for evolution. Whether or not promoting a fully-evolved Level 0 Pokemon to Level 1 will have any cost, and what that cost will be, is a lower-priority decision for later.
The various content in each Facility is designed by that Facility's owner, not by the mod team. We only stamp things. That said, we asked our Facility Heads to target a winrate of 80-100% for Leveling challenges, about 50% for End-Game, and perhaps 20% or less for Post-Game. If we find any Facility is off the target and is either clogging Leveling (too hard) or giving stuff away (too easy), we'll adjust.
Early-game facilities (especially Level 1 battles) are analogous to the Tierno 1 or Trevor battles in Realgam in difficulty, as well as scripted content like 2021's Season Beatings. Content that is solvable, or at least very forgiving for mistakes. New players get their first tastes of "real battling" here. Really, the design of this Leveling progression as a whole is an admission that these types of facilities are okay; planning and preparation are worth rewarding. In addition, communicating with other players about known strategies or reading previous challenges brings new players into the folds of BBP's social structure; which is a pretty key component of the game and even the main draw for many players.
End-game examples include Realgam's Cynthia and Ciphers. Examples from the past might include mid-tier TLRs and Silver Pike. Level 2 Facilities (the easiest) need to be winnable even for players who have just finished evolving their very first Starter Pokemon in BBP; so they will fold easily to veterans.
(As an aside, fully clearing a facility challenge always awards a full Level. The amount of EXP per level is being decided. Some mods like 10 for its clean appearance and because they can call a mon "Level 1.9". Myself, I like 12 per level for its many factors of divisibility. We'll decide before launch, but it's a low priority overall.)
One last addition:
Some certain select Pokemon will be given a specific move sooner. The most certain of these are Pokemon that mechanically need a certain move to function: The Dittos, Unowns, Aegislashes, and so on. Dive is normally is a bit too complex to be a Level 1 move, but Cramorant will have it at Level 1 because it's necessary for Gulp Missile to function. Similarly, Kitsunoh will always have Shadow Strike, and Stratagem will always have Paleo Wave. We already have this tech in the game (in the current Handbook, I think, which is an odd home), so iterating on that isn't too much to ask for the Pokemon that need it.
Sketch relies on move tiering to mostly finish before we decide how it will work. Though, I can't imagine Necturna will change much mechanically, if at all.
The other type of move getting this treatment is specifically Starter and Legendary Signature moves, such as Spacial Rend, Plasma Fists, Searing Shot, and so on. This will probably be for the move *very obviously designed to come out with the Pokemon*. For example, Victini's V-Create and Searing Shot. Victini learns the signature moves of the Gen 5 Dragons in Fusion Flare, Fusion Bolt, and Glaciate; but these are not
Victini's moves. Similarly, Leaf Blade may be widely distributed, but it's
designed for Sceptile (and Grovyle). This can get very subjective very quickly (just check
the relevant Bulbapedia page), so we're limiting this treatment to Starter, CAP, and Legendary Pokemon initially.
Pokemon
not getting this treatment are Pokemon who just learn some random move in-cartridge at "Level ?" or their evolution level (such as Venusaur's Petal Blizzard) and Pokemon who are somewhat mechanically bound to certain moves but can fight without them (such as Skill Link users). We decided that it's perfectly okay if that latter type of Pokemon be "late bloomers" who come on-line when their Hidden Ability or key coverage moves kick in. Building a team for early-level facilities that includes initially strong Pokemon, who help push your late-blooming Pokemon through the leveling process, is left as an exercise for the player.
The natural question is why we wouldn't just make these kinds of moves Level 1 to begin with. This would mean making mechanically-complex moves like Transform Level 1; which would have knock-on effects. If we got the inevitable Transforming CAP down the round, as just one example, that Pokemon shouldn't start with a CAP movepool
and Transform. Letting specified Pokemon simply list a move to start with in their data both saves future headaches by allowing us to tier the move on its own merits, and makes the purchase of the Pokemon in question feel more special.
this type of essay is mainly brought to you by the power of imbibed substances and won't be the PR norm until we get closer to Gen 9 launch.
as a reminder:
nightblitz42 said:
Timeline:
To allow fans of the Pokemon games to enjoy Scarlet/Violet spoiler-free, spoilers will be forbidden within BBP until Dec 2 UTC.
However, there still is a need to communicate game design across the playerbase. The mod team will be discussing certain implementations in general terms until then. A specific, updated Handbook will be made public on Dec 2*
Gen9 is scheduled to release on Dec 16th, UTC.
*
only december 2-ish. it will be up whenever i manage to move the thread that day, as I am terminally employed