Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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Pikachu315111

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TEAM SKULL:
General:
As many have mentioned, I like how we're going back to just criminals. Each game feels like they were trying to one-up the previous withe villain team's world conquering/changing plans. It started to get comical (and not helped by Team Flare's grunts). Team Skull feels a bit more grounded in reality, they're street thugs (and the more I look at them the less I see pirates, though I would say its there slightly since the whole skull theme plus they probably go island to island via boats they own). Stealing Pokemon, making trouble, and just rebelling against the system.
"But isn't that like Team Rocket"? Not quite. On the surface and just general actions they seem similar but Team Rocket was based on criminal organizations like the Yakuza and Mafia. Team Skull are more like street gang, like in New York there's the Blood and Crips. Team Rocket is very organized, they're lead by a man who has money and political influence, and they do missions they try to get in and out with little to no notice or its a giant raid meant to accomplish a certain task. Team Skull, from what's been presented, is more doing this out of personal reasons like rebelling and revenge, thus they want their actions known as it gives out a message or to make them feared. Team Rocket is for profit, Team Skull is for the evilulz. Now as we play the games we'll probably get motivations, mainly for Guzma and the admins (and maybe for some grunts via interaction dialouge), but their problems seem to be more with societal issues.

Themes: Surprisingly both the English and Japanese trailer gave us different themes for Team Skull, English seeming to be the encounter theme and Japan the (grunt?) battle theme.
This is DOPE, yo!... Sorry, I won't speak faux gangster again. But yeah, I really like this theme. It's loud and in your face, and with it having hip-hop-like voice clips littered throughout it stands out. It nicely gives you the idea how you should be feeling when going up against Team Skull.

Best way I can describe this is demented techno, it gives you a bit of an unhinged feeling, that you are facing a dangerous person. If their encounter is a foreboding message than their battle theme is them delivering on that message. It's also lively and something you can see battling to which is good.

Overall the feeling of both themes tells you that Team Skull is dangerous if not a bit deranged. They fit perfectly with the team of thugs.

Logo: I like their logo as its creatively done. Where as with most logos you first see the letter, with Team Skull you first see the, well, skull. It's not until further expectation until you realize that the elongated right eye socket and those crack above the left eye socket makes the cranium into an "S" shape. Well done.

Members: Another surprise is that they not only revealed the grunts but also the boss and (one of) the admin(s?). While at first that doesn't seem an important thing to note, as you learn more about them you actually see that, despite their rough attitudes, they consider each other as family. And with it a group of thugs instead of an organization I can also imagine they're a smaller group of villains. And while you had bosses and admins who treated their grunts kindly like Archie, Maxie, and N you rarely see it play in the theme of the team. But here makes Team Skull feel like a group who are outcasts or personally felt have been wronged so they came together not only to strike back but also to be with others who feel the same way they do; if no one is going to help them then they'll look after each others back! I wonder how much about "gang culture" did GameFreak research when creating Team Skull as this, at least from an outsider view, sounds like a trait part of gangs. I imagine we'll also come across themes of "respect" and "loyalty" within Team Skull.

  • Grunts. Nothing much to say here except after the more intricate grunt uniforms we've had over the years just people wearing plain clothes is refreshing. Infact without the cap, bandana, and pendant you really wouldn't know they were a part of Team Skull. And while its funny they have to buy their own clothes (though I'm wondering how and who), it was a joke done before by Team Flare (I'd also imagine Team Rocket would have to buy their clothes, all other groups I can see supplying their grunt uniforms). I think maybe the joke would work better if it said they needed to make their own uniform. And as a final fun note, in addition to their cap and bandana looking like an open-mouthed skull the white "x" on the bottom makes it look like a jolly roger, a nice touch (especially when their pendant is dangling above it like you can see in the female grunt's stock art).
  • Admin Plumeria. With their colors being black and white there also seems to be a concept of "clashing", Plumeria presenting it moreso with her pink and yellow hair. Going back to the family theme, Plumeria acts like an older sister to the grunts, both caring for them though being strict, in the trailer referring to them as her "cute, dumb brothers and sisters". I don't think in the main series we've seen an admin caring for their grunts like that, and the only boss I know who shown to care for his grunts was N. I'm looking forward to hearing more about her story. Also that skull tattoo on her abdomen is a bit particularly placed if you follow the design of the logo, especially where the skull's teeth would be...
  • Boss Guzma. The man of the hour. A departure from the usual boss leaders, Guzma looks younger than all but N and he's not dressed in any way that would stand him out (not that's a complaint with his design, I quite like it as it goes back to Team Skull being a more grounded group then the pirate/whatever Magma was/spacemen/knights/para-military/businessmen theme we've had). However he still have subtle design touches here an their like his glasses which both look like a skull eye socket but, with one of them being cut in half diagonally, looks like a sun and moon. Though of course what is most interesting about him is what he said in the trailer to Kukui.
    We're told Guzma has a bone to pick (get it? Cause the skull is a bone... moving on) with Kukui. While ambiguous at first, in the trailer more of this is delved into as Guzma points out they both failed to become Trial Captains, linking them together there. He also seems to know Kukui personally making me think at one point they maybe were friends, cause at the moment I don't see a reason for the grudge otherwise. In my head I've made two scenarios: (1.) They were friends and both tried to become Trial Captains but failed. For Kukui it was because the Captains/Kahunas realized that his interests was more elsewhere (which would lead to him becoming a Pokemon Professor) but for Guzma it was because they felt he had some wickedness to overcome; but instead he became angry with the whole system and decided to go against it, even Kukui who had joined said system instead of sticking with him. (2.) They were both in a gang together or at least were miscreants. They tried to become Trial Captains for whatever reason but due to their attitudes were turned down and probably harshly criticized. Whatever was said hit Kukui hard and he decided he wanted to better himself while Guzma instead wanted to get back at them and angry as Kukui for leaving. Of course this is just speculation, for all I know they have no past history and Guzma was just doing a "we're not different" villain speech.
    Eitherway I also think its clear that Guzma is also maybe a bit psychopathic with the whole declaring himself the human form of destruction (Yveltal be like "b****, please") while giving crazy eyes (Plumeria also had some crazy eyes but they were more "I'm going to stab you" then Guzma's "I WANT TO WATCH THE WORLD BURN").
Now what does this mean for Sun & Moon's story I can think of a few things. It wouldn't feel right if they wanted to the Legendaries... but if one of things they like to do is mess with the Trials who's to say they may one day go too far? They start out messing with the Captain's Trial grounds, then the player come along and starts stomping them, and they (Guzma in particular) gets angrier and crazier they then decide to mess with sacred grounds for Legendary Pokemon. And then something bad happens. Overall I'll be looking forward to going up against them and wherever the story leads them.
 
Everyone is discussing Team Skull and their motives, but the "evil" teams motives are a product of the desire to control the powers of the box legendaries. It is interesting that Solgaleo and Lunalaa are not the crazy time/space or otherwise super powerful legends of the past. If anything, they're even less powerful than Kyogre/Groudon, which limits the goals of Team Skull. I think many people were getting sick of the Pokemon which were more like gods than something like Mewtwo or even Kyogre (personally, I didn't care). Perhaps this will please those individuals.
 

Pikachu315111

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Everyone is discussing Team Skull and their motives, but the "evil" teams motives are a product of the desire to control the powers of the box legendaries. It is interesting that Solgaleo and Lunalaa are not the crazy time/space or otherwise super powerful legends of the past. If anything, they're even less powerful than Kyogre/Groudon, which limits the goals of Team Skull. I think many people were getting sick of the Pokemon which were more like gods than something like Mewtwo or even Kyogre (personally, I didn't care). Perhaps this will please those individuals.
Neo Team Rocket didn't care about Ho-Oh or Lugia in Gen II and Lysandre's only interest in Yveltal/Xerneas was as a power source for the Ultimate Weapon in Gen VI. And who says the evil team needs to have anything to do with the mascot Legendaries? Aqua, Magma, Galactic, and Plasma had a theme which related to their Legendary, but Skull doesn't.
 
Neo Team Rocket didn't care about Ho-Oh or Lugia in Gen II and Lysandre's only interest in Yveltal/Xerneas was as a power source for the Ultimate Weapon in Gen VI. And who says the evil team needs to have anything to do with the mascot Legendaries? Aqua, Magma, Galactic, and Plasma had a theme which related to their Legendary, but Skull doesn't.
Flare didn't look like they had anything to do with the box legendaries, but then they ended up using them, as well as turning out to be some sort of doomsday cult. It's possible that Team Skull just looks like they won't have anything to do with the box legendaries, but then they're revealed to have bigger motives. Tbh though, I kinda hope that's not the case, because as many people have pointed out, each evil team since Magma/Aqua seems to try to one up the other (well, except maybe Plasma) and at this point, if Skull tries to out-do Flare, I feel like it'll get too convoluted and stereotypically...I don't know, "lame kid's show villain," if that makes sense. If Skull ends up just being some street gang, I'd be 100% okay with that. It's simple, but they really do exist in real life, and with the hints about Guzma having some sort of connection to Kukai, this could be an opportunity to flesh out a really cool character with a believable motivation. Game Freak could find out something else to do Solgaleo and Lunala, as long as it works.
 
Neo Team Rocket didn't care about Ho-Oh or Lugia in Gen II and Lysandre's only interest in Yveltal/Xerneas was as a power source for the Ultimate Weapon in Gen VI. And who says the evil team needs to have anything to do with the mascot Legendaries? Aqua, Magma, Galactic, and Plasma had a theme which related to their Legendary, but Skull doesn't.
How did Plasma's theme relate to the Tao Trio? I don't quite see it.

Given what we've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if Team Skull just wants the power of the legendaries to cause havok. That sort of goal wouldn't need a theme.

Though precedence tells us that whatever connection Team Skull has to the legendaries will probably be kept under wraps until the games' releases. I don't think we knew much about the dragon prophecy in Gen 5 before release, and we definitely didn't know about the ultimate weapon before Gen 6's release. The backstory behind the cover legendaries is usually revealed lategame (with maybe Groudon/Kyogre being exceptions).
 
How did Plasma's theme relate to the Tao Trio? I don't quite see it.
It's more of an association and more present in BW1 than BW2, but,
1.) "Plasma" is the state of matter with the highest energy and is a term associated with high-energy. Reshiram is a Fire-type, Zekrom is an Electric-type, and fire and electricity are both visible forms of energy. I suppose this point could also apply in a contradictory way in BW2 with the Ice-type Kyurem. When something is frozen, its molecules do not move much (if at all) because they lack energy. It could also not be a contradiction, since Ghetsis ultimately converts N's dragon into a stone and fuses it with Kyurem, again taking control of an intense energy source and placing it in (storywise) a more powerful vessel.
2.) In ancient Unovan times, the two kings who ruled Unova ruled it alongside the original dragon, who split into Reshiram and Zekrom when the two kings disagreed too much. Team Plasma's goal, as directed by Ghetsis, was to establish N as a hero of Unova by raising him to team up with one of these two dragons. The same dragons who worked with the kings. N even refers to himself during the game as the king of Team Plasma (accentuated by his crowning in the intro), and having knights protect a king makes sense, right?
 

Pikachu315111

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How did Plasma's theme relate to the Tao Trio? I don't quite see it.
What RyuKageChroma said and they were knights going after a dragon.

Team Skull wants to mess with and mess up the trials. So maybe the box legendaries ARE one of those trials? That would further help Team Skull's cause. They could be like "Ha, we wrecked/captured your beloved ultra trial/super Alola-guardian - eff your trials and captains! Hahaha!"
I do think if involved with the Legendaries that the outcome would involve them releasing Solgaleo/Lunala either accidentally or on purpose. Then the two would do what they do, causing massive havoc, and the player has to battle it to calm it down. As for what will happen to Team Skull who knows, they could follow the Aqua/Magma route where they go "oh Arcues, what have we done?!" and help the player reverse what happened before they destroy the world.
 

CTNC

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1.) "Plasma" is the state of matter with the highest energy and is a term associated with high-energy. Reshiram is a Fire-type, Zekrom is an Electric-type, and fire and electricity are both visible forms of energy.
To add onto this, Fire itself is a form of Plasma.
 
The trailer on Serebii showed Alola Marowak appearing on the left side (Sun background), and Alola Raichu appearing on the right side (Moon background). Version exclusives?

Found some images

Looking at this is it possible we'll get regular Raichu in Sun and Alolan Raichu in Moon? And then the opposite for Marowak? Not saying it will happen but it is certainly an interesting possibility.
 
Not sure if it was mentioned yet but Alolan Raichu in a Doubles/VGC team with Tapu Koko should have Electro Ball. Take advantage of the double speed.
With a Choice Scarf for extra LOL (Would have maxed base power against foes with less than 263 or 134 Speed at level 100 or 50, respectively, or hit as hard as Thunders at targets with less than 351 or 179 Speed)
 
AFAIK the last time Gamefreak did true game exclusive forms were the GBA games. And that was for an event-exclusive Pokémon.
Some Mega Stones were exclusive in X or Y, which basically made those Mega "forms" version exclusives.

There was no way to use Mega Mewtwo Y in the X version without trading and vice versa.
Same goes for the Charizard Megas.
 
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Some Mega Stones were exclusive in X or Y, which basically made those Mega "forms" version exclusives.

There was no way to use Mega Mewtwo Y in the X version without trading and vice versa.
Same goes for the Charizard Megas.
And several other stones (Pinsir and Heracross, for instance...which actually requires trading since the stones are in the opposite versions of their 'mon).
 
The skull team reminds me kpop gender groups, haha. But I like, I have to admit, I do not dislike. They remind me of the "pimps" sixth-generation designs. Plumeria has caused me much impact, is pure love. Hair style. The older sister who take care of their young, haha. I hope you have and put it complicated role with his new Pokemon. Observing the logo and name, I think Zubat Alola way Rockruff / evolution will be chosen. But depending on the difficulty you can change.

Oh, so far I've liked all forms of Alola. Moreover, I can bear to continue coming more and no new mega. I like this idea, as they do with the first generation. The skills seem designed for competitive. It will cost me adapt so new thing, but I'm excited. There are still things to show and may have to control myself, haha. That rumor of Alola Dragonite has me crazy. I could imagine many things. Dragons have always seemed simpler by design, so I'm positive and I hope something comes out very nice. By the way, although not official, since it is made by fans, I would like to share with you a picture of Alakazam Alola. I personally liked. Small details of replacing spoons nunchucks and that black belt fallen feel great. I guess like most type fight could have an admirable physical attack, who knows.

 
Well you don't eat pancakes at nighttime, do you?
I eat breakfast for lunch/dinner all the time.

The skull team reminds me kpop gender groups, haha. But I like, I have to admit, I do not dislike. They remind me of the "pimps" sixth-generation designs. Plumeria has caused me much impact, is pure love. Hair style. The older sister who take care of their young, haha. I hope you have and put it complicated role with his new Pokemon. Observing the logo and name, I think Zubat Alola way Rockruff / evolution will be chosen. But depending on the difficulty you can change.

Oh, so far I've liked all forms of Alola. Moreover, I can bear to continue coming more and no new mega. I like this idea, as they do with the first generation. The skills seem designed for competitive. It will cost me adapt so new thing, but I'm excited. There are still things to show and may have to control myself, haha. That rumor of Alola Dragonite has me crazy. I could imagine many things. Dragons have always seemed simpler by design, so I'm positive and I hope something comes out very nice. By the way, although not official, since it is made by fans, I would like to share with you a picture of Alakazam Alola. I personally liked. Small details of replacing spoons nunchucks and that black belt fallen feel great. I guess like most type fight could have an admirable physical attack, who knows.

I would love to see a Fighting-type Alolan Alakazam. However, if it could also mega evolve, would it have a 5-handled nunchuck?
 
I eat breakfast for lunch/dinner all the time.


I would love to see a Fighting-type Alolan Alakazam. However, if it could also mega evolve, would it have a 5-handled nunchuck?
I would prefer Alakazam Alolan form to be fighting psychic. Removing the psychic typing is too much of a push for me and that would be an interesting typing in my opinion.
 

Cretacerus

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Psychic is Gamefreak's type of choice when it comes to space-related Pokémon (Lunatone, Solrock, Deoxys, Cresselia, Solgaleo, Lunala, Elgyem, Beheeyem).
The Alola games are called Sun and Moon.
Maybe some extraterrestrial event, like a geomagnetic storm for example, turned Raichu-A into this form? Strong solar winds are known to cause disturbances with Earth's electronic systems...
Raichu-A: To be honest, I think the Psychic-type was mostly added as a convenient excuse to let it float mid-air on its tail. While Electric-types are occasionally known to do so through the means of electromagnetism (e.g. Magnet Rise), prolonged levitation as displayed by Raichu-A ist typically associated with Psychic-types.
That being said, I can definitely see space-related themes being part of the typing justification. Instead of a huge solar storm that somehow only effects the Alola region, however, I'd suggest a more local phenomenon: the tidal influence of the moon/sun in Alola. Not only does this make sense for a Pokemon-variation found on islands, but it also ties directly into Raichu-A's surfing theme. The way waves break is heavily influenced by the tides, and Alolan Raichu might have adapted to those astronomical cycles in order to predict and utilize their coastal environment more effectively.

Marowak-A: At first, the thought of a Ground-type evolving into a Fire/Ghost-type, as seen in the Japanese trailer, might be a bit surprising. Not only because such drastic typing-changes are decidedly rare in the games, but especially because the concept of regional variations is based around the adaption and evolution of species as a whole. How could Marowak adapt to their new surroundings, while their adolescent form Cubone remained entirely unchanged?
In my opinion, this inconsistency makes a lot more sense when we consider a core feature of Cubone and Marowak: their extensive use of tools. Cubone and Marowak's traditional Ground-typing can be tracked back almost entirely to their bone tools, which is especially apparent in their level-up movepool: the only Ground-type moves they naturally learn are Bone Club, Bone Rush and Bonemerang, while the rest of the movepool consists mainly of Normal-type moves. Take away Cubone's helmet and bone club, and you would probably get a Normal-type Pokemon (which would make a lot of sense with their commonly hypothesized descent from Kangaskhan).

Following this logic, changing their style of weapon could very much lead to a change in typing as well. While Cubone still uses its bone tools to tank hits and dish out blunt damage, adult Marowak-A seem to have adapted a more specialized way of combat, utilizing flames and rituals in a way a Fire- or Ghost-type would (thereby replacing their traditional upfront fighting style, e.g. Battle Armor and Rock Head). And since Marowak are known to pass on their culture from generation to generation, those Fire/Ghost-type traits wouldn't have to be inherited genetically as with other species, but could instead be acquired by each Cubone individually while growing up. Cubone's primitive use of tools would serve them sufficiently during their childhood, but be replaced by new advanced techniques as they learn and mature, symbolized by the typing-change from Ground to Fire/Ghost.
 
Some Mega Stones were exclusive in X or Y, which basically made those Mega "forms" version exclusives.

There was no way to use Mega Mewtwo Y in the X version without trading and vice versa.
Same goes for the Charizard Megas.
I think what he was talking about was deoxys and how each game had a specific form that was only available in that game and was impossible to get in any other. Cause every gen has version exclusives, but they can all be accessed via trade, so it's no big deal. But for 3rd gen deoxys the game you pick makes certain forms completely unavailable no matter what.
 
Some surprisingly detailed information on Hyper Training came through today.

"Earlier this week, the Youtube Channel for the Japanese magazine, V-Jump, put up a video detailing IVs in Pokémon. In this video it gave a bit of clarification into the process. In the video, it showed three different Garchomp with different IV spreads and each of them used a Silver Bottle Cap at Hyper Training. This allowed for one stat to be increased, in this case the Attack was increased on all three Garchomp. This means that you'll be able to use the Silver Bottle Cap in exchange to increase one stat only. It was also mentioned that there may be a Gold Bottle Cap, and questioned if it will be used to increase multiple stats to their maximum. It is still not known how the Bottle Caps can be obtained and if there's a limit to the amount you can find." ~Serebii





tl;dr - a Silver Bottle Cap raises a single Stat to having a 31 in it's IV no matter what the IV was before. Implication there's a Gold Bottle Cap that raises multiple stats.
 
Am I the only one who thinks Game Freak will just bullshit it and give you a key item in-game called the alola stone or something that can switch your Pokémon between Alolan and normal? Because it seems very much like something Game Freak would do.
I think you are the only one, because you're missing the main point of Alola forms, that the species as a whole developed differently on Alola than in the rest of the world. They're not switchable forms.
 
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