Gen 9 OM Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Cratersmash]

Clodsire is Quagsire but for special defense.

Kind of, but let's look at a comparison:
Typing:

Mon	Quagsire	Clodsire
Weaknesses	Grass Quagsire is much better off in this department, only having a weakness to grass, an uncommon coverage type.	Ground, Water, Psychic, and Ice Clodsire, on the other hand, is weak to Ground, Water, Ice, and Psychic. The former three are all quite good types offensively, and Gallade is a very good Mon in this meta.
Resistances	Poison, Rock, Steel, Fire, Electric Has resistances to Steel and Fire over Clodsire. The Steel resist is fine, and the Fire resist is pretty great	Fighting, Bug, Rock, Fairy, Poison, Electric, Toxic This has resists to Fighting, Bug, and Fairy. Fighting and Fairy resists are big, Bug resist notably makes it take less chip from U-Turn which is nice. The big thing here is the Toxic Immunity. Quag hates Toxic, while this thing doesn’t.
Final Verdict	I think Quagsire still has the edge here, although it is close. The extra resists and Toxic immunity are incredible for Clod, but the weaknesses definitely hurt.

Stats:

Mon	Quag	Clod
Stats	135/125/125/105/105/55 These stats are just pretty good all around	205/105/75/65/175/25 These stats, though, are kind of insane. The worse defense is mostly made up for by the HP, and the special bulk is a lot better than Quag’s physical bulk
Final Verdict		Clod wins this one in a landslide, these stats are excellent

Small Stuff:
This lost Scald which sucks. In exchange, though, it got Spikes, SR, and Toxic Spikes. It can use any of these depending on what the team wants.
Clodsire: Water Absorb is a genuine option on this thing, with the Water weakness. If you really need a Water immunity, this is definitely an option.
Both: The Recover nerf will definitely hurt them, however the removal of quite of few of the top tier fatmons leaves them with less competition.

Overall, Clodsire is less of an Unaware wall like Quag and more of a blanket special wall with a side of Unaware. Overall, very excited to see what this thing does in the meta, and I’m also just generally excited for gen 9 Reevo

Also, Zacian got nerfed. Attack nerf+Intrepid Sword only activates once per battle. It does get a Grass move to smack Quagsire with now, but smack is a generous term
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Trailblaze vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 152-180 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
50 BP is weak, this thing might be okay now?

 

[shadowpea]

random shit for random oms (stab, bh, aaa, mnm and a few others) abt mon changes:

hisuian arcanine gets rock head head smash flare blitz which is cool...for which meta again? idt it gets much of anything from stab aside from stone ax ig, aaa gives it mglo which is nice, and it likes it ability too much to give it away for mnm...except for atespeed ig, arcanine 2.0.

arc getting ddance and taunt is huge for ag for hopefully obvious reasons. healing wish is neat too as well as random coverage. no more whirlpool trapping sets (does it get other trapping moves? icba to check). what happens to arc in gg? obviously amazing stats all around, and arc itself is an amazing mon. will half the teams be arc? will it get banned? i hope not. i wouldnt be surprised if some random fat ddance taunt recover set completely breaks the game.

heehoo barraskewda loses flip turn, obviously massive for every non-move-based meta it is in

blissey loses wish, toxic, and teleport which is massive. far more passive now.

hisuian braviary gets tinted lens and uturn. yeah. psychic flying is lame, but lens is a broken ability.

cinderace gets swords dance. of course protean got nerfed, but swords dance. and it literally doesnt give a shit abt the protean nerf in aaa/mnm anyway. swords dance cinderace might get itself banned in those two metas.

cress lose a bit of bulk which is relevant in bh if there is still the mega mewtwos around. scream tail exist too with an arguably better typing.

delphox gets np and focus blast. not sure if it matters for anything.

dialga gets trick and focus blast. the former opens up trickspecs and trickscarf sets and the latter...is nice i guess, it already gets fire blast and aura sphere. also the origin forme is pretty much an upgrade to the original in bh.

dragonite loses dwb but it doesnt matter at all bc oms lol. it will still break itself with -ate in stab, still run the -ate stones in mnm, and gets flying stab right back in stab. honestly losing heal bell is the rough thing for it. ive seen defog/toxic/roar dnite too, rip those sets ig.

drednaw gets smash. unfortunately no wave crash so no mglo recoiless stabs. still looks good tho solely bc smash is broken.

:genie: contrary superpower enamorus. nuff said.

tern gets fire blast on top of flamethrower. will it be used? only the calcs will tell us as the meta develops

not relevant either way but flareon losing superpower is kinda lol

the chomp loses scale shot so its stuck with its speed tier, but its weird aqua tail sets get an upgrade in liquidation as well as thunder fang for flyings/waters. and spikes. spikes is good.

garde thankfully does not get recover or ice beam but it does get aura sphere (wait what wdym im not supposed to talk about bbp here) ANYWAY tinted specs garde makes a return in aaa before lele comes back? maybe perhaps?

gengar loses sludge wave for some reason, no biggie, its more than happy with sludge bomb anyway. tspikes are also kinda mean although idt gengar can find room for it.

glastrier loses hhp which is its best coverage move. what happens to it in godly gift? i think its still good between sd and other good coverage options. we'll see.

gren gets swords dance and liquidation. also switcheroo for its choiced sets. i havent played in an om where gren is a thing but first impressions say swords dance not terrible not great but scarfed sets get a nice buff

grimm gets prank part heehoo

the don loses heat crash but itll be fine with its new spikes and willo. yeah, those two can easily replace whatever slot heat crash carried.

gyara lose power whip. find another powerful stab move in revelationmons, buddy

heatran loses roar but gets power gem which helps it beat birds, ig? its not like birds appreciate magma storm anyway. also it beats the shit out of volc now if it wants, but since its power gem we're talking about it will never run it.

hippo loses a staple move in toxic. its even more passive now.

hydra loses defog and roost. all out offensive it goes then. it gets rocks too.

indeedee loses expanding force wtf.

<- but rock: kleavor looks pretty nice with stone axe and u-turn. aggressive rocks setter that actually gets to be aggressive as it sets up rocks. stab uturn is also of course stab uturn, looks like a cool mon to me

LANDO GETS NP. and taunt. but np lando-i is just...sheesh.

lando-t loses knock off. and defog. and toxic. this should really be posted in the ou forum tbh. lets see how smogonlion does with a good chunk of its utility snapped. probably still good in stab as a broken attacker, aaa perhaps, its av sets lose knock tho. gg is probably where these nerfs will be felt the most.

mage gets spikes. so it gets another way of punishing switches. yeah. fat mage sets in mnm are vibing.

i have only just now learned that zoner got tp in the first place

medicham gets cc and axe kick. oh wait this isnt the nd forum....

mew loses knock (eh), defog (oof), toxic (eh-oof), roost (it gets softboiled), and teleport (fuck). it will still be good where its good because its still mew. it just loses some good parts of its bottomless movepool, heh.

mewtwo gets earth power and power gem. earth power looks seriously amazing in gg, it gets to pick its answers even more now.

palkia gets trick. trickspecs in gg maybe? after ogre gets the hammer if it does? origin forme gets 20 speed and -20 atk but with rend being snapped itll probably just stick with special or defensive sets, which are obviously just buffed.

le quag gets hazards and lose scald cratersmash just made a post i wont do it again

ray gets rocks and uturn which is...dude. ray does not need this. itll prolly be too busy killing shit to use rocks but uturn may make an appearance on banded sets. it gets wild charge too for fat waters/flyings

regidrago gets coverage!!! specifically, earth power on specs sets, and eq on banded ig. may make it worth considering, at least?

eleki loses voltage which ends the kokoeleki cheese, but ice terablast is obviously nuts on it. may singlehandedly push terablast over lol, if tera stays this thing needs to fucking go.

monkey loses glide. rip monkey you will be missed.

rotom loses defog and toxic. stab will get defog right back, but rotom really liked those moves.

scizor loses bug bite, roost, and knock, but it gets cc. given offensive sd scizor in stab dont need the moves it lost, cc is huge for it. bulkier versions will sorely miss roost tho, and also knock to a lesser extent.

slowtwins lose tp, which makes them passive as all hell in gg. no scald or toxic as well only contribute to that.

gking gets tspikes. yikes, if it wasnt busy running av or offensive np (in gg). otherwise, it may run tspikes on fat non-av sets?

<- but poison: sneasler gets sd, taunt, uturn, and gunk as staple moves probably as well as fire punch and rock slide as coverage. it can potentially be threatening, probably will be, especially after some of the brokens clear out.

spectrier gets draining kiss and also the hammer way more quickly this time

sylv loses mystical fire. at least there is no ferrothorn just yet.

talonflame loses defog. it didnt run defog in aaa anyway.

thundy(-t) loses defog. this would be troubling...if the meta where its good in isn't stab. as it is, it gets it right back in stab.

torn-t loses defog, knock off, and toxic. again, a great part of its utility palette gone. i sure hope gliscor don't get the same treatment... as it is, it will be much worse now, but it can still serve as an offensive pivot ig? defog and knock were huge parts of its profile though.

pex loses knock and scald, obviously huge, but already talked about a bunch so ill just skip it

ttar loses superpower toxic and roar, three of its hella niche options. its still ttar though, it wont mind too much, itll just keep doing ttar stuff.

<- but fatter: ursaluna...gets belly drum. in stab even when drum gets banned it can still pull off drumspeed to win games. outside of that, big facade and earthquake/headlong rush makes it look like quite a beast in stab. and even more of a beast in the speed slot in gg, since it gets those moves naturally. actually drum ursaluna in gg speed slot sounds downright insane. it gets taunt too as well as almost the entire fucking type chart as coverage. and of course in aaa it can run a poison heal set to devastating effect. in bh it can pretend to be regigigas until we get gigas back. ursaluna looks like a pretty great mon pretty much everywhere.

urshifu gets swords dance which means wherever it was banned before its even more banned now. rapid form might eat the hammer in gg too. actually that wouldn't even matter if ou bans it first.

demon cm vaporeon is a thing now. shiver in your boots.

volcanion loses toxic defog and roar, all moves ive seen it use. its offensive firepower is still untouched though. damn thats a lot more mons than i thought that misses toxic and defog.

volcarona loses roost. sad. like hydra, it will probably go all-out offensive whereever it is now.

weav losing axel and knock is massive, spinner/crash is not nearly enough to make up for it especially when its strongest dark move is now apparently throat chop. its another victim of "strong stats but low bp moves" syndrome now. still good tho, its a weavile after all.

WIGGLY GETS NP its not relevant anywhere but i just want to say it

yall probably have noticed the ss dogs' nerfs. zacc is still borked in bh unrestricted, but with the isword nerf as well restricted zacc is almost certainly balanced now. zama is only very slightly pissed at its stats getting nerfed, it wont mind very much and will continue doing what it have always done in bh. in gg and mnm...idk, i never played zama and i didnt play when zac was legal. i guess we'll see. also, zama is 100% keeping that stone legality in mnm. zac probably not, itll still be good without stones even with the isword nerf. the typings make that much of a difference. and swords dance and the one-time isword, i guess.

zapdos loses defog. again this feels more like an ou thing, all the funny offensive zapdoses in mnm and aaa gets to keep their firepower.

zarude gets swords dance. kinda nuts in aaa for obvious reasons, even with the glide nerf.

<-but white: i really want hisuian zoroark to be good. and it now gets hyper voice as stab and trick for its choiced sets. in stab it looks absolutely flames with specs/scarf astral+boomburst+fblast+trick, with illusion to boot. in other metas...normal ghost is still an amazing typing. we'll see.

i am posting entirely too much these days. putting aside everything im supposed to be doing too. good times.

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

Who's as excited for gen9bh as I am!!!! BH Council Recently Convened and have a released a tentative banlist and watchlist for the start of gen9bh!

Gen9BH Banlist

Banlist
Moves:
None :(

Abilities:
Huge Power
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Arena Trap
Magnet Pull
Stakeout
Illusion
Wonder Guard
Water Bubble
Innards Out
Neutralizing Gas
Parental Bond

Pokemon:
None :)

Clauses:
Sleep Moves Clause
Species Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
Dynamax Clause
ComaTalk Clause
CFZ Clause

Things which have been freed:
Moves: Shell Smash, Court Change, and Belly Drum. Octolock, Bolt Beak, and Double Iron Bash are not in the game anymore.
Abilities: Contrary, Protean / Libero, Intrepid Sword, Gorilla Tactics
Pokemon: Calyrex-Shadow, Zacian-Crowned
Clauses: Sleep Clause Mod is back!

Gen9BH Watchlist

Watchlist

Moves:
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Court Change
Last Respects
Fillet Away
Gigaton Hammer

Abilities:
Moody
Gorilla Tactics
Contrary
Orichalcum Pulse
Hadron Engine
Swords of Ruin
Beads of Ruin
Good As Gold

Pokemon:
Calyrex-Shadow
Zacian-Crowned
Michael

Clauses:
Terastalize Clause

Screenshot of the watchlist with descriptions

Council plan for Gen9BH

Everything Becomes Released

Meta is coded:

• Get forums started

Day 1

• Initial Viability List (S, A, B, C)
• Ban list + watchlist become public

Day 2

• Update Watchlist / high priorities

Day 4

• Look at tiering again
• Tier anything that’s very evidently broken

Day 7

• Update VR
• Initial Setpedia

Week 2

• End of week two, another round of tiering

Week 3

• Hold the first suspect test if something is suspect worthy (start)
• Continue tiering

Week 4

• Update VR
• Update Setpedia

Month 2 (BH Open Starts - have a reasonable metagame)

• Closely follow tour for anything broken (spectate onyx onix 7 games)

Month 3

• Another round of suspecting

Month 4

• BH Open ends (won by stresh)
• New community member joins, starts off by using ladder cheese but shows impressive dedication to the game. No more than 14 years old. Will ragequit within a few months and go play an FPS.
• Gamefreak releases “Surprise DLC”; denounced as “Worst Company Ever”. Anti-DLC and pro-DLC factions form; war begins.

Month 5

• Super-boomer (started in Gen 5) briefly returns to mild fanfare
• Tea Guzzler writes a dissertation on the cultural impact of the Gorilla Tactics ability
• I definitively prove that Gen 9 BH is a bad metagame using metaphysics

 

[shadowpea]

here are whats broken imo in bh at a glance. will not elaborate atm, i wrote waaaay too much today

week 1:
unrestricted dog, gtactics, moody, michael

week 2:
contrary, horse, revival, sword, beads, the pulse, the engine, last respects

end of the month:
smash, fillet, (sevag youd better vote ban on these or expect me to be unhappy), sleep

tossup on being banned by then:
shed tail, tera, good as gold, drum

balanced:
restricted dog, isword

assumptions:
sword/beads are the equivlant of -1, the pulse and engine are +1 boosts

 

[Sectonia]

hello!!!!

I am actually starting to get excited for the prospects of SV, despite how defensive playstyles have generally sorta been gutted with the recovery pp nerf (although to be honest, i think balance will still be fine? do nothing stalls just can't waste pp as effectively with their recovery moves since they have half of their recovery PP, and i sincerely hope they go away entirely, but that might not always be possible), I think SV has the potential to be really fun once again with its limited dex and our limited options.

One of the options I've had my eyes on, and been busy trying to understand the mechanics of one specific move for this mon is Maushold - I sincerely believe that this will be a sleeper threat in some OMs and maybe a not sleeper threat in certain other OMs (godly gift anyone? anyone wanna fuck up some mons with a family of mouses?) largely in thanks to a combination of a few factors - namely, Population Bomb, Tidy Up, Technician, and its base 111 speed stat.

I'm going to start with the big move on that list of factors for Maushold, and address the Population Bomb move - I think this move will be insane on Maushold, since Population Bomb will always hit 10 times, and despite functioning like Triple Axel when it comes to each hit (it even has the 90% accuracy per hit issue too!), also has the same solution as Triple Axel to ensure each hit lands - Wide Lens. Without Wide Lens, Population Bomb has a 34% chance to land every hit on the enemy, which is decent enough because Maushold can make a serious dent, but with Wide Lens, you jump from a decidedly mediocre 34% chance to a shocking 90% chance to land every hit - a marked improvement on its damage output. That's not just it either, Population Bomb has 20 BP per hit, so it will add up to 200 BP in the end if it lands every hit - a number that only goes up when you factor in Technician boosting each hit to 30 BP, so you end up with a 300 BP bomb that Maushold just casually has access to. I will admit that its reliance on Wide Lens does curb some of its true power, but I'd say it's an acceptable trade off to be able to secure a 90% chance to just drop a 300 BP move on opponents - not a lot wants to eat this move.

If you thought Population Bomb was kinda crazy at first glance, I'd like to introduce you to Maushold's other signature move - Tidy Up. Now, I'm sure that this thread has extolled the virtues of Tidy Up a bunch, so I won't get too much into it, but I will focus primarily on its boosting aspect - the ability to give itself +1 Attack and +1 Speed. It is virtually Dragon Dance, but with a bunch of benefits loaded inside it, so Maushold can easily click Tidy Up and reap a ton of benefits other than the stat boosts. Maushold gets exclusive access to it outside of STABmons and Balanced Hackmons, and oh boy, it will make good use of it! Maushold can easily boost the power of Population Bomb with Tidy Up, and in case we encounter a ghost, Maushold gets access to Beat Up and Crunch to remove them out of the way. If Steel-/Rock-types are annoyances too, Maushold gets access to Low Kick, which is a big boon for it, although... considering this calc... (+1 252 Atk Cinccino(has 75 attack) Body Slam(Population Bomb, and modified to be 300 BP since Population Bomb does not exist in calc yet) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 233-275 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery). I'm fairly sure that Maushold will easily topple down most non resists in the face of what's surely becoming one of the more terrifying moves I know of for Maushold. Population Bomb is contact, so any Rocky Helmet users will end up killing it after 6 hits, and Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet will kill Maushold faster.

I maintain the belief that Maushold will be a sleeper threat in OMs since its ability to drop a extremely powerful move and abilities to receive benefits from the OMs it can access will help bolster it. However, I do acknowledge that Maushold essentially has pretty shitty bulk, and if it's not in a stat boosting OM, it will likely need some assistance, like screens from Hyper Offense, or setting up on passive mons - I'd maintain that Maushold will still be able to do a lot of damage when it's properly set up, thanks to its list of benefits, and the ever eternal 300 BP Population Bomb.

Also this image is both really good and a good description of how i think maushold will go down in some oms

 

[shadowpea]

well then

 

[Cratersmash]

More Reevo gogogogo

Drednaw gets Shell Smash now, which is fun
Arceus is here and it…maybe does things, probably? 120 across the board is decent, not spectacular though
Baxcaliber: 140/195/118/105/107/112 stats and boosts attack if it switches in on a fire move. Oh, and it’s immune to burn.
Pawmot: 80/155/100/90/80/125 stats so not only do you have to worry about Revival, you also have to worry about that nice 155 attack showing up on your front door.
Lost Flip Turn so it can’t play a one button game anymore.
Talked about it in my last post, lost Scald and the Recover nerf hurts, but it gets hazards now!
Clodsire: Very nice special wall, also talked about it in my last post
This thing is now extra not okay, because it got SD!
This thing, though, might actually be ok now. The attack nerf is pretty sizable, and Intrepid Sword nerf is big. In terms of buffs, it got a Grass move that doesn’t even 3HKO Quag after lefties.
Houndstone: I sincerely hope Last Respects does not get +50 for each fainted ally, because 141 Attack+up to 300 BP STAB is a war crime
The fallen:
Losing Golisopod hurts, Ferrothorn was great, and Clefable was one of the best Mons in the tier

Overall, with the Recover nerf and Scald limiting, and all the new wall breakers, the meta is probably going to trend much more towards offense now.

 

[MAMP]

bh stuff


fully torqued (Zacian-Crowned) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker / Swords of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Dark / Fire
- Magical Torque
- Gigaton Hammer
- V-create
- Strength Sap / Swords Dance / Victory Dance

Even after the attack nerf this mon is still pretty cooked, especially with the great new STABs it gets this gen: 160BP Gigaton Hammer is a crazy breaking tool and the 30% confusion chance on Magical Torque will give Zac-C plenty of opportunity to cheese through checks. This is a great target for Revival Blessing too, and I expect it to be really strong early in the gen when people are spamming mons like Miraidon, Koraidon, and Flutter Mane. Dark Tera lets you check Caly-S in an emergency, and Fire Tera gives you some extra breaking power and potentially wins the 1v1 against other Zac-C without risking the Speed tie.

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Ghost
- Last Respects
- Gigaton Hammer
- Magical Torque
- Trick

Last Respects looks fucked up broken to me, and Ghost Tera Zac-C feels like the most obvious broken abuser to me thanks to its Speed tier and threatening Darkceus with Fairy moves. Not that it really needs it:

252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Zacian-Crowned (Ghost-type, 150 base attack) Spectral Thief (250 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Dark: 355-418 (79.9 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Very silly move.

Zacian-Crowned @ Life Orb
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
Tera Type: Fire
- V-create
- Magical Torque
- Double Shock (unsure if this is usable by mons that aren't electric-type)
- Shell Smash

Fire Tera Zac-C could be a good user of Orichalcum Pulse too. It doesn't always need to Terastalize to take advantage of the ability either, as it's still a flat 1.3x power boost while the sun is up.

Zacian-Crowned @ Protective Pads / Pixie Plate
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Fairy / Ground
- Coil
- Population Bomb
- Precipice Blades
- Strength Sap

+1 252 Atk Pixilate Zacian-Crowned Population Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 454-535 (102.2 - 120.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

hmmmmmm


Calyrex-Shadow @ Spooky Plate / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker / Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Tera Type: Fairy
- Judgment / Astral Barrage
- Moonblast
- Nasty Plot
- Lumina Crash / whatever

Not sure what the counterplay to this is lol

Koraidon @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / Dragon Fang
Ability: Tough Claws / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Steel
- Close Combat / Collision Course
- Shell Smash
- Glaive Rush
- Gigaton Hammer

Koraidon is a little lacking in power, so without a boosting ability it can't come close to OHKOing things like Waterceus after a Shell Smash, so I feel like you need something like Tough Claws. Thankfully, it has some strong STAB moves and Gigaton Hammer smokes all the Fairy-types that would normally check it. Lines up well against Darkceus and Steelceus, both of which I expect to be popular early in the gen. Steel Tera gets the OHKO with unboosted Gigaton Hammer against Fairyceus and defensively can surprise Zac-C, Fairy Tera Caly-S, or boosted PH Fairyceus.


Slaking @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Tera Type: Dark / Ghost / Steel / Ground
- Facade
- Victory Dance / Tidy Up / Ceaseless Edge / Stone Axe / Combat Torque / Last Respects

Lots of cool new tools for our resident PH normal-type this gen. Victory Dance and Tidy Up are mostly upgrades over Dragon Dance and Shift Gear, and it can set up hazards against Magic Bouncers with Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge. Combat Torque is a cool coverage option that has a 30% chance to paralyse, but options like V-create, Precipice Blades, Glacial Lance, and Wicked Blow are still around and very good. Slaking could be a solid Last Respects user with or without Ghost Tera too. Hard to say what Tera type Slaking wants, but I like the idea of Dark to dodge Caly's Psychic coverage and bust through Ghost-types.


Arceus-Steel @ Leftovers
Ability: Purifying Salt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
Tera Type: Ghost / Water
- Spirit Shackle
- Soft-Boiled
- Entrainment / Topsy-Turvy / utility moves

Decent Caly-S check? Dealing with Imposter with a mon like this seems annoying because Anchor Shot doesn't exist and you can't status them thanks to Purifying Salt, so Spirit Shackle seems like the best option (also doubles as a way to hit Caly-S). Feels quite passive.

Ting-Lu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
Tera Type: Poison
- Ceaseless Edge
- Flip Turn
- Nuzzle
- Knock Off / Precipice Blades / Rapid Spin

This very bulky, slow Dark/Ground-type looks like a great RegenVester that can check Caly-S and Hadron Engine users. Ceaseless Edge is awesome on RegenVesters, giving them another strong progress-making tool (particularly important on this one so it doesn't get completely pooped on by PH Fairyceus), and it has a roll to OHKO Caly-S. Unfortunately Ting-Lu's absurd 155/125 physical bulk is betrayed somewhat by weaknesses to Fairy, Fighting, and Ice. Poison Tera could be a cool option here to get the Fairy and Fighting resistance to live a hit and get off a Nuzzle against Fairy Caly-S, Zac-C, Pixilate Fairyceus/Flutter Mane, and Koraidon.

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
- Boomburst
- Astral Barrage
- Trick
- Armor Cannon / Volt Switch

Being slower than Zac-C and Caly-S and easily OHKOd by both might be a death sentence for Flutter Mane early in the meta's lifespan, but the scarcity of good bulky Fairy resists could make this one really tough to switch into, especially with the option to Tera into one of its types to bolster its damage output further. Specs Astral Barrage can 2HKO Steelceus but it's a little sketchy, so having Trick, Volt Switch, and Armor Cannon to pressure it is helpful. Shell Smash or Contrary Fleur Cannon sets might be good too.

Miraidon / Eternatus @ Dragon Fang / ?
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Tera Type: Fire / Steel / Fairy
- Draco Meteor
- Overheat
- Make it Rain
- V-create / ?

Make it Rain only gives +1 SpA with Contrary, but it's still a strong option for Contrary Dragons to get past Fairyceus. Miraidon and Eternatus are probably the best Contrary Dragons thanks to their Speed tier but maybe Dialga or Palkia are ok too? Fire and Steel Tera give a Fairy resist against the usual suspects and help bust through Dragon resists, and Fairy is a cheeky anti-Imposter option.


Arceus-Ghost @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Ghost / Fighting
- Rage Fist
- U-turn
- Nuzzle / Knock Off
- Collision Course / Thunderous Kick

Rage Fist gets a 50BP power boost for every time the user has been hit by an attack this battle. Best way to abuse that is probably on something like this RegenVest Ghostceus, which can come in on random weak attacks throughout the battle to slowly boost its Rage Fist to stratospheric levels. How good this is depends on where Rage Fist's BP caps out, but if you can get it to like 250BP it definitely has potential. It keeps the boost even if you faint and get revived by Revival Blessing later, which is pretty sick. Running a Fighting move to hit Darkceus/Slaking seems good, and you can run Fighting Tera to get the power to 2HKO them.

Thoughts on some other mons:

• Wo-Chien could be a Caly-S/Palk/Miraidon check, but I don't know if the stats are good enough.
• Dialga-O is not as cool as it otherwise would be with Core Enforcer and Doom Desire absent, but I reckon defensive sets could be alright regardless. Offensive sets might struggle
• Palkia-O speed tieing Arceus sucks for it, and losing Rend reduces its versatility greatly. Still strong no doubt, but might be a bit outclassed early in the meta.
• Scream Tail is the next best defensive Fairy after Fairyceus, so it could see some use on teams that want a fat Fairy but have the Arceus slot filled. Very passive
• Zama-C is still great despite the nerfs. Outspeeding Arceus is very relevant and the bulk drop is insignificant. Competes with Steelceus but not taking up the Arceus slot and having Fighting STAB are relevant niches.
• Etern is also still excellent, although the box legends, Zac-C, and Caly-S are all very annoying for it.
• Meloetta Caly-S check?
• Dondozo has better physical bulk than Waterceus and doesn't take up the Arceus slot, could be an alright Zac-C check.
• Palafin-Hero is probably too slow and mono-Water is an awkward STAB, but it's cool. If Fishious Rend comes back at some point, I can see this one seeing play.
• Iron Bundle might be good if Zac-C and Caly-S get banned? Outspeeds the bikes by a point and can do Refrigerate stuff? Idk
• Iron Valiant would be pretty good if it weren't slower than Arceus. Maybe if everyone starts running neutral nature Arceus it could get somewhere?
• Keen to try every bad Arceus form

This meta is way faster than last gen: Arceus at 120, Miraidon, Koraidon, and Flutter Mane at 135, Zac-C at 148, and Caly-S at 150 are the big speed tiers. I expect mons like Slaking at 100 and Rayquaza at 95 are going to feel very, very slow.

Revival Blessing is almost certainly busted as hell. Imagine trading your Imposter for a Shell Smasher and it just comes back later. Imagine some breaker Final Gambits its check and then gets revived to take advantage of the hole it created. Consider that you can run multiple users of this move on your team, that they can revive each other, and that with Leppa Berry you can do it twice. Absurd stuff. I don't expect this to last more than a few days.

We don't know the numbers on Sword/Beads of Ruin, but if they give the equivalent of -1 def/spdef then they're easily the strongest damage amp abilities in the meta. Even if it's just equivalent to a 1.3x boost or something, they're both still strong enough to invalidate other damage amp abilities most of the time.

The recovery PP nerf I think will shake out to be the most significant change this gen brings, after some of the broken offense stuff goes away. Massive for PH guys like Fairyceus, Slaking etc that aim to grind through their checks over a long game. I think this change will make a big difference to the way that fat vs fat games play out, and will undoubtedly weaken defensive playstyles in general by giving them a far worse matchup against bulky offense. The PP nerf also buffs Imposter, because it can force recovery PP usage quite effectively. In Gen 8, if Imposter copies your Xern or something 5 times in a match there's a good shot it could force 5-6 recovers from your Improof. With 16 PP that's fine: with 8, it could lose you the game.

Spectral Thief and Core Enforcer are both gone, removing some of the more splashable counterplay to PH sweepers. I expect Pokemon like Slaking, Groudon, Kyogre, and a whole bunch of Arceus forms to benefit a lot from this.

The hazard meta is going to be weird this gen with the introduction of Stone Axe, Ceaseless Edge, Tidy Up, Good as Gold, and Court Change being free. Might take a bit to figure out. If this meta ends up being more defensive, the low PP on Axe and Edge could make them risky compared to SR and Spikes, despite beating Magic Bounce.

Terastalize is really hard to evaluate, especially because I don't know how big the extra damage boost is. Seems super annoying for the guessing games it'll create in game, similar to Dynamax, and for how effective it is at letting big breakers mix up their checks.

Shed Tail is similarly hard to figure out. The most obvious choice is to slap it on some fat Regen mon, like an Arceus, Giratina, or Dialga, and pass big subs to smashers or dudes like Caly-S and Zac-C, which certainly sounds annoying.

Really keen to see how this meta shakes out!

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Calyrex-Shadow @ Spooky Plate / Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker / Beads of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
Tera Type: Fairy
- Judgment / Astral Barrage
- Moonblast
- Nasty Plot
- Lumina Crash / whatever

Not sure what the counterplay to this is lol

Muk-A wins every time! Unless Beads are actually as broken as we all fear.
I'm so glad we have non-centralized, balanced, and reliable counterplay to fair and well-designed Pokemon Game Freak have given us.

On a more serious note:

Some Speed Tiers

Total Speed	Pokemon	Base Speed	Nature	EVs	IVs	Boosts
816	Barraskewda	136	Positive	252	31	+2
742	Barraskewda	136	Neutral	252	31	+2
562	Cyclizar	121	Positive	252	31	+1
499	Garchomp	102	Positive	252	31	+1
492	Chi-Yu, Salamence, Volcarona	100	Positive	252	31	+1
490	Cetitan	73	Neutral	252	31	+2
483	Haxorus	97	Positive	252	31	+1
450	Baxcalibur	87	Positive	252	31	+1
442	Mabosstiff, Quaquaval	85	Positive	252	31	+1
439	Haxorus	97	Neutral	252	31	+1
430	Gyarados	81	Positive	252	31	+1
421	Dragapult	142	Positive	252	31	0
409	Baxcalibur	87	Neutral	252	31	+1
408	Barraskewda, Iron Bundle	136	Positive	252	31	0
405	Chien-Pao, Flutter Mane	135	Positive	252	31	0
379	Meowscarada	123	Poistive	252	31	0
375	Cyclizar	121	Positive	252	31	0
371	Barraskewda, Iron Bundle	136	Neutral	252	31	0
370	Roaring Moon	119	Positive	252	31	0
364	Iron Valiant	116	Positive	252	31	0
353	Maushold	111	Positive	252	31	0
350	Gengar, Iron Moth	110	Positive	252	31	0
333	Garchomp	102	Positive	252	31	0
328	Chi-Yu, Palafin-Hero, Palafin, Salamence, Volcarona	100	Positive	252	31	0
322	Haxorus	97	Positive	252	31	0
315	Great Tusk,	87	Neutral	0	31	+1
306	Annihilape, Lucario	90	Positive	252	31	0
300	Baxcalibur	87	Positive	252	31	0
299	Palafin-Hero, Palafin	100	Neutral	252	31	0
295	Ceruledge, Mabosstiff, Quaquaval	85	Positive	252	31	0
293	Gholdengo	84	Positive	252	31	0
293	Haxorus	97	Neutral	252	31	0
287	Gyarados	81	Positive	252	31	0
273	Baxcalibur	87	Neutral	252	31	0
273	Armarouge	75	Positive	252	31	0
269	Ceruledge	85	Neutral	252	31	0
262	Breloom	70	Positive	252	31	0
249	Armarouge	75	Neutral	252	31	0
245	Cetitan	73	Neutral	252	31	0
239	Breloom, Bisharp	70	Neutral	252	31	0
221	Tyranitar	61	Neutral	252	31	0
210	Great Tusk	87	Neutral	0	31	0
199	Azumarill, Kingambit	50	Neutral	252	31	0
170	Corviknight	67	Neutral	0	31	0
168	Skeledirge	66	Neutral	0	31	0
166	Alomomola, Orthworm	65	Neutral	0	31	0
158	Tyranitar	61	Neutral	0	31	0
146	Blissey	55	Neutral	0	31	0
136	Chansey, Iron Hands	50	Neutral	0	31	0
126	Ting-Lu	45	Neutral	0	31	0
125	Corviknight	67	Negative	0	0	0
121	Alomomola	65	Negative	0	0	0
106	Dondozo, Garganacl	35	Neutral	0	31	0
96	Amoonguss	30	Neutral	0	31	0
76	Clodsire, Torkoal	20	Neutral	0	31	0
67	Toxapex	35	Negative	0	0	0
40	Torkoal	20	Negative	0	0	0

I made some preliminary Speed tiers because why not! Are they complete? Hell no! Are they useful? Maybe not! They're different in every tier anyway! Feel free to use them or ignore them at your leisure. I personally noticed some interesting Speed tiers while making this, like the fact that you could creep 0 speed Corviknight with Skeledirge easily and hit it before it U-Turns out.

I also noticed that Dark Doggy has Stakeout, which I don't know how I missed before.

EDIT: More fun!
With no accuracy modifiers, Population Bomb has a

10% chance to miss completely
9% chance to hit exactly once
8.1% chance to hit exactly twice
7.29% chance to hit exactly 3 times
6.561% chance to hit exactly 4 times
5.9049% chance to hit exactly 5 times
5.31441% chance to hit exactly 6 times
4.782969% chance to hit exactly 7 times
4.3046721% chance to hit exactly 8 times
3.87420489% chance to hit exactly 9 times
34.86784401% chance to hit exactly 10 times

Why does the last buck hit the trend and go way up? Because you hit the maximum number of hits, so it cant go down more and just adds up whatever is left!

Another way of looking at it

90% chance to hit once or more
81% chance to hit twice or more
72.9% chance to hit 3 times or more
65.61% chance to hit 4 times or more
59.049% chance to hit 5 times or more
53.1441% chance to hit 6 times or more
47.82969% chance to hit 7 times or more
43.046721% chance to hit 8 times or more
38.7420489% chance to hit 9 times or more
34.86784401% chance to hit 10 times

Are these numbers mostly just 10x the ones above? Yes. Yes they are.

Now give it Parental Bond and... yeh just have fun with your 10 minute turn

 

[Railroader17]

Regarding BH

Chien-Pao @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Refrigerate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
Tera Type: Fire / Ghost
- Coil
- Ceaseless Edge
- Population Bomb
- V-create / Rapid Spin / Terablast

Feels like a pretty potent "spiker". Coil corrects the accuracy issues of Ceaseless Edge and Population Bomb, which serve as STABs, with C-Edge also having the benefit of laying spikes while Population Bomb tears through sturdy and especially Ice weak mons like a hot knife through butter.

+1 252 Atk Refrigerate Chien-Pao Population Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 354-416 (70.2 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery when Jolly

+1 252+ Atk Refrigerate Chien-Pao Population Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 390-458 (77.3 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery when Adamant.

As for the last slot you can either go with V-Create to nail non-Flash Fire Steel types trying to switch in, Rapid Spin for the speed boosts and hazard removal, or Tera Blast (should Tera stay legal) both for STAB when Tera, and as an alternate click to preserve Pop Bomb's PP when your foe is in range of the KO. Oh, and Chien-Pao is also prankster immune thanks to being a Dark type, so there is also that! Tera could be Fire or Ghost depending on what your more scared of switching in, Steel / Fire types or maybe a Fighting type?

EDIT: Oh, and Loaded Dice is to ensure you get 10 Hits on Pop Bomb

Also since Contrary is legal

Iron Valiant @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
Tera Type: Steel / Ghost / Dark
- Fleur Cannon
- Close Combat Superpower
- V-create
- Gigaton Hammer / Astral Barrage / Make It Rain / Wicked Blow

Sadly while there is no move that lowers your own attack to take full advantage of contrary Ignore that, forgot Superpower was a thing, STAB on both Fleur Cannon and Close Combat Superpower, and the stats to back them up, makes Iron Valiant potentially a very strong Contrary spammer. Fleur Cannon is for Fairy STAB and boosting SpA, while CC Superpower is Fighting STAB that boosts Def/SpD Atk/Def. V-Create is coverage against Ice / Steel types that resist Close Combat Superpower, last slot depends on which type you want coverage against. Fairy Types with Gigaton Hammer / Make it Rain? Or Ghost types with Astral Barrage. Maybe you take Psychic with Wicked Blow? As such, tailor your Tera type to whichever move you go for.

EDIT: Somehow forgot Superpower, go with that instead of CC.

 

[Lectrys]

Sadly while there is no move that lowers your own attack to take full advantage of contrary,

Superpower normally lowers Attack (and Defense) and is a meaty 120-BP Fighting attack.

Thinking more about BH, with the latest testing and flag checking for Good As Gold confirming it blocks Defog and leaning towards it blocking Court Change(!!) (along with blocking Trick), I think the hazard removal there will now consist of merely Tidy Up, -Ate Rapid Spin, and maaaaybe Mortal Spin.

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

Thinking more about BH, with the latest testing and flag checking for Good As Gold confirming it blocks Defog and leaning towards it blocking Court Change(!!) (along with blocking Trick), I think the hazard removal there will now consist of merely Tidy Up, -Ate Rapid Spin, and maaaaybe Mortal Spin.

damn, being able to block court change is insane. If this is the case, have we checked its interaction with haze?

 

[Railroader17]

Superpower normally lowers Attack (and Defense) and is a meaty 120-BP Fighting attack.

Thinking more about BH, with the latest testing and flag checking for Good As Gold confirming it blocks Defog and leaning towards it blocking Court Change(!!) (along with blocking Trick), I think the hazard removal there will now consist of merely Tidy Up, -Ate Rapid Spin, and maaaaybe Mortal Spin.

... How did I forget that

Well guess that's what I get for only trying to remember moves that harshly lower Atk instead of just the single stage ones.

 

[Lectrys]

damn, being able to block court change is insane. If this is the case, have we checked its interaction with haze?

We checked Haze first in the battle mechanics thread. Good As Gold does not stop or affect Haze.

 

[Billybobman]

Seems like will be back. Which could nice for partners in crime if it can still use ice breath + anger point. Covert cloak is nice for stopping fake out. Mirror herb seems silly. Ability Shield makes skill swap strats less good. Clear Amulet helps deal with intimidate spam.

Annihilape seems neat. I like Destiny Bond + Focus Punch since DBond dissuades opponents from attacking potentailly allowing for a free focus punch. And Focus Punch has negative priority which can potentially help to take down a mon with Dbond. Rage Fist seems amusing. In STABmons it can make use of no-retreat and likely be able to switch out due to being a ghost type.

I wonder if revival gift can be used by sleep talk, sketch assist, copycat, etc. Probably not... If it can be used with leppa berry, imma try to use it with harvest.

Not sure how I feel about the stall nerf. You can still run rest or aromatherapy with strength sap.

My favorite move is Gravity. Seems like the new dark move that sets up spikes may be beneficial to gravity teams. tends to learn gravity through tutor and breading, so if paradox jiggly gets it, it could be neat with Gravity+Sing+Boomburst+Thunder. Sandyshocks seems like a good Gravity setter with access to Gravity, STAB Zap Cannon, Spikes, Stealth Rock, and STAB Earthquake. Liligant may be a good physical attacker under Gravity due to Hustle and Sleep Powder. The two tusks seem like strong ground attackers.

 

[KaenSoul]

Hey fellas, some of you may already know that Shared Power will be under a new administration in gen9, and I want to share power some of what we have been discussing.

The initial banlist is looking like this for now:

Banlist

Abilities
Arena Trap
Armor Tail
Dazzling
Fur Coat
Guts
Huge Power
Imposter
Magnet Pull
Mold Breaker
Moody
Pure Power
Queenly Majesty
Quick Draw
Regenerator
Sand Veil
Shadow Tag
Simple
Snow Cloak
Stakeout
Stench
Tinted Lens
Unaware
Pokémon
Koraidon
Miraidon

Compared to gen 8 the new additions are just clones of already banned abilities (Pure Power=Huge Power, Armor Tail=Queenly Majesty) and the Bike duo.
We are also working on a watchlist that will include some of the no longer banned abilities (Magic Bounce, Speed Boost, Harvest), the most controversial abilities from the late gen 8 meta (Sturdy, Ice Scales, Flare Boost) among other stuff. If you don't see some of the old bans then is most likely that the ability is no longer available (Neutralizing Gas) or nerfed (Protean/Libero).

Watchlist

Abilities
Speed Boost
Drought
Electric Surge
Harvest
Cud Chew
Quick Feet
Sturdy
Ice Scales
Drizzle
Sand Stream
Poison Heal
Magic Bounce
Fluffy
Flare Boost
Pokémon
Gholdengo
Ting-Lu
Chien-Pao
Wo-Chien
Chi-Yu
Roaring Moon
Iron Valiant

I want to move away from complex bans so for now weather and terrain abilities will be completly free while we decide on the best course of action, the Paradoxes have made this quite different and I don't like complex bans in general.

 

[Euphonos]

Good day, everyone! Meteorologist (well, rip Weather Ball) Head Researcher Euphonos here to bring you all a report on the potential of the newly-introduced Pokemon in the Camomons Metagame of the Scarlet/Violet generation! This also includes Pokemon from the Legends: Arceus games; as such, some of the Pokemon here would have a major impact in such a metagame.

OG Type Scarfer (Sneasler) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dire Claw
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Switcheroo

This Pokemon will definitely have a huge impact in the new metagame, with Dire Claw spreading lots of status, especially Poison with higher probability, to the opposing team. It can also learn Swords Dance and Taunt to serve as a late-game attacker, but U-turn is way too good to pass up as one of the best moves to gain momentum.

Fighting/Flying Hero (Palafin) @ Eject Button
Ability: Zero to Hero
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Jet Punch / Flip Turn
- Bulk Up / Agility

While I'm going to anticipate lots of U-turning this generation, Palafin can take a 4x resisted U-turn and activates Eject Button, which then activates Zero to Hero to make it on par with Slaking, and boosting its Acrobatics power afterward. The other remaining moves happen to be kind of a filler: one with Jet Punch being a buffed Aqua Jet or Flip Turn to proactively switch out on a utility/defensive mon, and another with Bulk Up to boost its Slaking-high Attack to astronomical levels or Agility to outpace almost everyone without a priority move.

Choice Stakeout (Mabosstiff) @ Choice Band
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch / Psychic Fangs
- Play Rough
- Psychic Fangs / Crunch
- Destiny Bond

Finally, the strongest, most legitimate, and the most accessible Stakeout user since the Gumshoos/Thievul era. Its movepool is kind of barren but sufficient enough to deal strong damage to the opposition - especially resists on a switch-in by virtue of Stakeout.

Multiple Typed Nasty Plot (Gholdengo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunderbolt / Flash Cannon / Make It Rain
- Dazzling Gleam / Shadow Ball
- Recover / Memento / ?
- Nasty Plot

Another possible staple for this metagame in terms of introducing a new Pokemon, and it actually has lots of competition, including Hydreigon as it has more moves to use, but at least Gholdengo can still form a niche given such types; not to mention Gholdengo has Dazzling Gleam that Hydreigon doesn't have.

[AS] Press E♯ (Basculegion) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Liquidation
- Night Shade
- Psychic Fangs

[SS] Press E♯ (Basculegion) @ Choice Band
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Psychic Fangs

Press E♯ to pay last respects. The more Pokemon in your team faints, the stronger Last Respects will be, and that would be real dangerous to face, unless you're facing Garganacl halving damage from Ghost attacks by virtue of Purifying Salt, or there's a part-Normal type in your opposing party.

Some notes:
- Looking forward to seeing the Terastallization mechanics further that could possibly be warping the new metagame and ended up being banned.
- Shedinja looks dexited in this generation, so we shouldn't worry about it until the possible DLC introducing that mon again.
- Don't forget that while Calm Mind is a banned move in the Sword/Shield generation, such move will not be banned immediately, but may be under a close eye whether or not such Calm Mind boosters are too much for the Scarlet/Violet Camomons metagame to handle.

I'm also compiling some potentials through here. It's not finished, but at least there is some information going on. Stay tuned with more reports!

 

[Railroader17]

Another thing regarding BH

Now that Arceus is back, he's also bringing the plates and Judgement, which means special improof mons are back on the menu! Thus, I present

Calyrex-Shadow @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 242 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Aura Sphere / Focus Blast
- Quiver Dance
- Taunt

Losing Secret Sword sucks royally, as does not having any good options for Fighting special coverage aside from Aura Sphere or Focus Blast, but Judgement + Spooky Plate makes Calyrex Imposter-Proof, especially when it only has Aura Sphere / Focus Blast. Quiver Dance is for boosting SpA, SpD, and Spe as per usual, and Taunt shuts down other Prankster users (such as Haze spammers since Spectral Thief is gone).

Of course, this set gets walled by Hisuian Zoroark, though maybe you could run Scrappy for the ability instead since the Psychic sub-typing resists Fighting. TBH I don't really see H-Zoroark really being much of a threat.

 

[XxLazzerpenguinxX]

Who's as excited for gen9bh as I am!!!! BH Council Recently Convened and have a released a tentative banlist and watchlist for the start of gen9bh!

Gen9BH Banlist

Banlist
Moves:
None :(

Abilities:
Huge Power
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Arena Trap
Magnet Pull
Stakeout
Illusion
Wonder Guard
Water Bubble
Innards Out
Neutralizing Gas

Pokemon:
None :)

Clauses:
Sleep Clause Mod
Species Clause
Evasion Clause
OHKO Clause
Dynamax Clause
ComaTalk Clause
CFZ Clause

Things which have been freed:
Moves: Shell Smash, Court Change, and Belly Drum. Octolock, Bolt Beak, and Double Iron Bash are not in the game anymore.
Abilities: Contrary, Protean / Libero, Intrepid Sword, Gorilla Tactics
Pokemon: Calyrex-Shadow, Zacian-Crowned
Clauses: Sleep Clause Mod is back!

Gen9BH Watchlist

Watchlist

Moves:
Revival Blessing
Shed Tail
Shell Smash
Court Change
Last Respects
Fillet Away
Gigaton Hammer

Abilities:
Moody
Gorilla Tactics
Contrary
Orichalcum Pulse
Hadron Engine
Swords of Ruin
Beads of Ruin
Good As Gold

Pokemon:
Calyrex-Shadow
Zacian-Crowned
Michael

Clauses:
Sleep Clause
Terastalize Clause

Screenshot of the watchlist with descriptions

View attachment 465229

Council plan for Gen9BH

Everything Becomes Released

Meta is coded:

• Get forums started

Day 1

• Initial Viability List (S, A, B, C)
• Ban list + watchlist become public

Day 2

• Update Watchlist / high priorities

Day 4

• Look at tiering again
• Tier anything that’s very evidently broken

Day 7

• Update VR
• Initial Setpedia

Week 2

• End of week two, another round of tiering

Week 3

• Hold the first suspect test if something is suspect worthy (start)
• Continue tiering

Week 4

• Update VR
• Update Setpedia

Month 2 (BH Open Starts - have a reasonable metagame)

• Closely follow tour for anything broken (spectate onyx onix 7 games)

Month 3

• Another round of suspecting

Month 4

• BH Open ends (won by stresh)
• New community member joins, starts off by using ladder cheese but shows impressive dedication to the game. No more than 14 years old. Will ragequit within a few months and go play an FPS.
• Gamefreak releases “Surprise DLC”; denounced as “Worst Company Ever”. Anti-DLC and pro-DLC factions form; war begins.

Month 5

• Super-boomer (started in Gen 5) briefly returns to mild fanfare
• Tea Guzzler writes a dissertation on the cultural impact of the Gorilla Tactics ability
• I definitively prove that Gen 9 BH is a bad metagame using metaphysics

Some clarifications. After thinking back about it, we've decided that freeing sleep doesn't really make sense, since the reasons it was banned during gen8bh still directly apply, despite the introduction of new abilities, to gen9bh. As a result Sleep Moves Clause will be implemented. Secondly, imprison + transform will be free during gen9bh, despite the recent voting in gen8bh. (We also forgot to add parental bond to the banlist, nature's madness + parental bond would be terrible, oops lol) The post will be edited accordingly.

 

[prunyy]

posting ag stuffs of the top of my head cause im bad at other oms lol. this is just for me to experiment, reflect, and think about the ag meta with gen9 coming. i dont feel like being formal

love is in the air? NOPE 252+ tera water specs kyogre spamming water spout lets goooooo. this whale is gonna be a beast as usual. chilling water can cripple a physical attacker, so thats nice. wait this thing gets substitute? …

it gets spikes and will-o-wisp? no heat crash? insert that megamind thing groudon will most probably be our hazard setter while ndm is on break from carrying the over 50% of our ag teams. wait this thing gets substitute? …

stealth rock and u-turn aren’t needed, why did they do this. rayquaza will be busy nuking everything. rayquaza is fine doing rayquaza things. wait this thing gets substitute? …

AHHH EVERY POKEMON GETS SUBSTITUTE WHYYY

dialga also seems to be a good stealth rocker at the moment. but cooler had better bulk, and dialga is most probably always going to be a special attacker, so moving its attack into special defense is nice, but needs an

not much to say tbh except chilling water. but what did they do to my boi’s hands? its attack goes into speed which is also nice.

and are going to be their usual stall pokemon.

ARKOOS IS BACK!!! YAYYYYY, ag without arceus is like pizza without pineapples. i didn’t see whirlpool or trapping moves so the perish trap mess is gone.

butter dog got the nerf it needed. with only one chance for +1 attack, it could serve as a revenge killer of sorts. tera grass dog to counter quagsire lol.

from what i saw, nothing changed. it’s a pretty good pokemon in general.

its calyrex-shadow, nothing else. tera fairy calyrex-shadow to check yveltal sounds real fun. im sure assault vest yveltal can tank though.

:that red dragon: this thing has some real juicy stats. isn’t orichalcum pulse just old intrepid sword? am i missing something. collision course seems dumb busted, fighting hits a lot of things for super effective. flare blitz nukes sound fun. maybe even protect and lefties to recover and then click it again. flame charge…

:that purple dragon: same thing as the koraidon, hadron drive is just special intrepid sword, unless im still missing something. electro drift is also of course dumb busted, hitting common types for extra damage like water and flying is good. electric terrain actually buffs electric moves, unlike koraidon, making this thing nuke even harder.

:the four chinese thingys: they each drop one stat in the form of an aura, which is cool i guess. i don’t know how viable these would be in ag though. they all get ruination though…
ting-lu seems sort of viable because dropping special attack while being bulky offensive is nice. It has painfully slow speed though.
chien-pao looks pretty good, dropping defense while being a physical sweeper. if it can get snowstorm up, its golden. being ice type means that, it puts it at a disadvantage.
wo-chien actually looks really good. it’s a wall that becomes even better with its ability. it gets stuff like leech seed making it painful to remove. it’s basically ferrothorn.
chi-yu has all the benefits that chien-pao does, and it’s not ice type. with will-o-wisp, it can get away with it’s below average defense.

i dont know how good the paradox forms will be, i don’t think they’ll be too good, because they rely on koraidon or miraidon for their abilities.
just looking at stats though, great tusk, sandy shocks (?), slither wing, roaring moon, iron moth, iron hands (?), iron jugulis, and iron bundle seem the best. im too lazy to look at moves

 

[Ducky]

posting ag stuffs of the top of my head cause im bad at other oms lol. this is just for me to experiment, reflect, and think about the ag meta with gen9 coming. i dont feel like being formal

love is in the air? NOPE 252+ tera water specs kyogre spamming water spout lets goooooo. this whale is gonna be a beast as usual. chilling water can cripple a physical attacker, so thats nice. wait this thing gets substitute? …

it gets spikes and will-o-wisp? no heat crash? insert that megamind thing groudon will most probably be our hazard setter while ndm is on break from carrying the over 50% of our ag teams. wait this thing gets substitute? …

stealth rock and u-turn aren’t needed, why did they do this. rayquaza will be busy nuking everything. rayquaza is fine doing rayquaza things. wait this thing gets substitute? …

AHHH EVERY POKEMON GETS SUBSTITUTE WHYYY

dialga also seems to be a good stealth rocker at the moment. but cooler had better bulk, and dialga is most probably always going to be a special attacker, so moving its attack into special defense is nice, but needs an

not much to say tbh except chilling water. but what did they do to my boi’s hands? its attack goes into speed which is also nice.

and are going to be their usual stall pokemon.

ARKOOS IS BACK!!! YAYYYYY, ag without arceus is like pizza without pineapples. i didn’t see whirlpool or trapping moves so the perish trap mess is gone.

butter dog got the nerf it needed. with only one chance for +1 attack, it could serve as a revenge killer of sorts. tera grass dog to counter quagsire lol.

from what i saw, nothing changed. it’s a pretty good pokemon in general.

its calyrex-shadow, nothing else. tera fairy calyrex-shadow to check yveltal sounds real fun. im sure assault vest yveltal can tank though.

:that red dragon: this thing has some real juicy stats. isn’t orichalcum pulse just old intrepid sword? am i missing something. collision course seems dumb busted, fighting hits a lot of things for super effective. flare blitz nukes sound fun. maybe even protect and lefties to recover and then click it again. flame charge…

:that purple dragon: same thing as the koraidon, hadron drive is just special intrepid sword, unless im still missing something. electro drift is also of course dumb busted, hitting common types for extra damage like water and flying is good. electric terrain actually buffs electric moves, unlike koraidon, making this thing nuke even harder.

:the four chinese thingys: they each drop one stat in the form of an aura, which is cool i guess. i don’t know how viable these would be in ag though. they all get ruination though…
ting-lu seems sort of viable because dropping attack while being bulky offensive is nice. It has painfully slow speed though.
chien-pao looks pretty good, dropping defense while being a physical sweeper. if it can get snowstorm up, its golden. being ice type means that, it puts it at a disadvantage.
wo-chien actually looks really good. it’s a wall that becomes even better with its ability. it gets stuff like leech seed making it painful to remove. it’s basically ferrothorn.
chi-yu has all the benefits that chien-pao does, and it’s not ice type. with will-o-wisp, it can get away with it’s below average defense.

i dont know how good the paradox forms will be, i don’t think they’ll be too good, because they rely on koraidon or miraidon for their abilities.
just looking at stats though, great tusk, sandy shocks (?), slither wing, roaring moon, iron moth, iron hands (?), iron jugulis, and iron bundle seem the best. im too lazy to look at moves

AG actually has its own gen 9 discussion thread. Also very fun post to read

 

[Railroader17]

Some clarifications. After thinking back about it, we've decided that freeing sleep doesn't really make sense, since the reasons it was banned during gen8bh still directly apply, despite the introduction of new abilities, to gen9bh. As a result Sleep Moves Clause will be implemented. Secondly, imprison + transform will be free during gen9bh, despite the recent voting in gen8bh. (We also forgot to add parental bond to the banlist, nature's madness + parental bond would be terrible, oops lol) The post will be edited accordingly.

Sleep Clause I get, but...

Why free Impform immediately after you banned it!?!

Heck, why even go through the trouble of banning it at all in Gen 8 BH if your not gonna keep the ban in Gen 9?

Sure no Zygrade-C, but we still have Zama-C who is probably one of the better users of it, even if he got nerfed. I mean yeah Anchor Shot got yeeted, but that's not going to stop people from trying to keep the strat alive with Fire Spin, Sand Tomb, Whirlpool, Thunder Cage, or Magma Storm, even if their not as good. If anything they help since they add chip damage to the mix to speed things up, which IMO is an acceptable trade off to being negated by stuff like flash fire for Magma Storm / Fire Spin (not too niche due to V-Create), being a ground type for Thunder Cage (Zygarde-C is gone, but we still have Groudon), Flying type for Sand Tomb (We have Rayquaza I guess? Or Water Absorb for Whirlpool (who uses Water Absorb?) but it still heavily constrains team building, perhaps even more so since you now have to account for all of those different moves rather then just having to worry about Anchor Shot.

 

[MAMP]

we don’t theoryban unless we feel that something is so blatantly, clearly broken that there’s no point bothering to test it. impform’s power is dependent on a number of metagame factors like the strength of its abusers, the overall speed of the tier, the strength of ghost types, pivoting, and other anti-trapping measures, etc. in other words, impform deserves a fair shake because we can’t really be sure it’s broken until we test it in the new metagame, even if on paper it may look like not much has changed.

 

[Max op boy]

Fire and electric terrain team are gonna be broken

 

[in the hills]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/other-metagames.733/
The Generation 9 Forum is open! Discussion for our main metagames is open and more OMs will be returning shortly!