Gen 8 Discussion Thread

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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
More speculation to kill time before release :blobastonished::blobastonished:

STABmons:
First I will start off with the news that many other moves got cut (mainly signature moves) but I will highlight the most significant ones here):

Steam Eruption, Core Enforcer, Beak Blast, Precipice Blades, Origin Pulse, Dragon Ascent, Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, Shore Up, Judgement, Oblivion Wing, Searing Shot, Magma Storm, Techno Blast, Head Charge, Heal Order, Lovely Kiss, Sacred Fire, Tail Glow, Milk Drink, Seed Flare, Diamond Storm, Nature's Madness

Biggest Losers:

: While I still expect Washtom to be great, losing powerful coverage moves like Steam Eruption, Seed Flare, Searing Shot, and Magma Storm, having to resort to more weaker options instead. I still expect it to be a top tier threat regardless, especially with checks such as Chansey, Tangrowth, Magearna, and Serperior cut from the game. However, it must be noted that Washtom did get a slight nerf (at least it can still run Defog in this format....)

: STAB Boomburst will always hurt of course, but no Judgement for coverage can really limit Sylveon's wallbreaking capabilities a ton. It still has access to the newly buffed Rapid Spin and can still be a great cleric like it was previously, but checks such as Corviknight and Ferrothorn pressure it greatly now (although no more Tran does offer it some favors).

: No more Diamond Storm, Shore Up, and strong coverage in Precipice Blades really sucks for our green giant friend. Ttar will still be a menace though as it can now support the more menacing Excadrill now and can still spam Koff alongside other powerful STAB options (rip no more Pursuit), although it just lost some flexibility especially as a defensive threat.

: Broken spider in SM might not be as broken anymore with no more Tail Glow and Heal Order (where the former is really what constrains it). The loss of Z-moves can also be detrimental as well since now Araq will need to rely on Quiver Dance for setup and cannot recover it's health (unless Life Dew is truly 50% in singles instead of 25% but that is still unclear). We can maybe have our favorite Spider get unbanned this upcoming gen tbh.


New Mons:
: Can be dope in this format since it can get access to Horn Leech (which I don't know why it does not get in standard format lol) and can even have access to more reliable recovery in Strength Sap which is always good. Not sure when it's Hidden Ability will come out but once it does, Grassy Terrain boosted attacks from this mon can hurt since there are a lack of good Grass checks besides stuff like Ferrothorn and Corviknight (and even then no Beak Blast also helps spam STAB moves more freely). Dope to try this mon out.

: STABmons can fix this mons shortcomings a lot lul, finally having access to good physical Ghost Stab in Spectral Thief alongside boosting in Dragon Dance and Dragon Darts of course. It's coverage apart from it's STABs is still atrocious for the most part, but at least it can hit most of the metagame for at least neutral damage so I still feel it can work greatly regardless of that drawback.

: Another Ghost type I am interested mainly because it's base movepool is already pretty dope lol. Shell Smash, Strength Sap, and Stored Power is always a great combination, but at least here it can have an even more stronger reliable STAB in Moongeist Beam that can bypass Unaware mons. I still will have a hard time dealing with counters like Ttar unless it runs coverage in Giga Drain, but still I really like how this mon turned out.

: Our Celesteela replacement lul, but I still think this mon has some merit. While it has less overall bulk and cannot use moves like Beak Blast anymore, butcan still be a cool Defog user that can check threats like Rillaboom, Grimmsnarl, and Excadrill ofc. It's Gmax form also seems dope to.

: Um ye this with Fishious Rend under rain will be a menace lol. Thanfully it does not have a Attack boosting move in Swords Dance and it's coverage is somewhat limited (although it still has Close Combat for stuff like Ferro), just spamming Fishious Rend will seem to suffice for the most part tho lol.

I will stop now, but ye this STAB metagame will be completely flipped on it's head compared to the SM iteration lol. Will be fun but I am interested to see how things play out especially with metagame staples being absent now.
 
Regarding the loss of moves for BH, since all of the new moves cut are signature moves, which BH generally relies on due to their power and effects.
Lovely Kiss: Much less relevant due to Sleep Clause, but now Spore is going to dominate as the sleep status spreader which mean Goggles is pretty safe for sleep prevention
Bonemerang + Thousand Waves + Precipice Blades + (Lands Wrath LOL): All solid Ground STAB moves with good BP. Waves loss is quite significant for defensive ground types as now they cannot compress STAB and trapping in one move. PBlades was also the main ground coverage for many mons so with V-create still existing I don't see levitate being very good compared to flash fire.
Thousand Arrows: This basically means flying types are now actual Ground immunities (Corviknight) but also could spark usage of levitate if you don't want to use corviknight. No more perfect neutral coverage of Fire + Arrows or Fairy + Arrows.
Aeroblast + Oblivion Wing + Dragon Ascent + Beak Blast: Rip Triage, rip flying STABs, rip Zovrah.
Milk Drink: One less recovery option oh no.
Shore Up: Rip best recovery move.
Sacred Fire: Not a big loss tbh as its PP was quite bad and power was bad compared to broken V-create. If you want coverage for fire you still have Fire Lash and Pyro Ball which are nice replacements.
Tail Glow: Not upset at all. Wasn't broken but less aids to deal with is good.
Psycho Boost: Rip Specs Mewtwo, Psystrike and Photon are still in sooo.
Fleur Cannon + Light of Ruin: Moonblast still in so not overly big of a loss, MG users definitely weakened. With both Fleur Cannon and Psycho Boost gone maybe we can consider freeing Contrary TBH. Oops forgot about V-create keep Contrary banned pls.
Mind Blown: Yeah definitely rip MG, Steel Beam is not a good move.
Judgment: Rip self improof special sets, switch to Multi Attack now.
Core Enforcer: Loss of good special dragon STAB that has no drawback and good pp, also now PH users don't need to be Fairy type and we must rely on Entrainment, Worry Seed, or Wandering Spirit to remove abilities.
Lunar Dance: Just use Healing Wish who cares about PP.
Magma Storm: So Shed just got a lot better as this move was nice coverage and shed deletion.
Seed Flare: Best Grass Special move gone.
Head Charge + (Crush Grip): Physical -ates now can only rely on FakeSpeed and Explosion.
Diamond Storm: Loss of good Rock STAB but Rock Blast isn't too bad and is already used on some sets anyways. For offensive sets this sucks though maybe use Edge Miss.
Steam Eruption + Origin Pulse: Loss of strong Water STABs outside of Water Spout but we don't have good offensive waters and broken Scald is still there so thats good.
Revelation Dance: Loss of good special STAB for darks, steels, rocks, etc. Forces use of Magic Bounce on every team to check Normalize Marsh/Dragapult.
Ice Hammer: Icicle Crash isn't much worse but TC users definitely suffer.

Chatter: Free Chatter

Now time to theorycraft some BH sets. Not gonna include anything with NGas because all you need with that is Shell Smash/Belly Drum and ESpeed or whatever. Also can replace abilities with ISword or Gorilla but those abilities I see as broken and should be banned so yeah.

Zacian @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker / Tough Claws
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike / Double Iron Bash
- Play Rough
- Earthquake / High Horsepower / Bolt Beak / Bolt Strike
- Filler

The most obvious set for Zacian. ISword is actually disgusting so it might get banned. Steelworker and Tough Claws/Adapt are decent replacements. Can be compared to Kartana except it has actual bulk, a good defensive typing, and much higher speed.

Zacian @ Pixie Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bolt Beak / Bolt Strike / Earthquake
- Fake Out / Rapid Spin

As the most viable Fairy type, Zacian acts as a nice revenge-killer and breaker with Pixilate. This set lacks the power of the Band set but offers more utility with ESpeed, Fake Out, and Rapid Spin.

Zacian @ Choice Band / Leppa Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Fillers (Think Glare/Nuzzle/Discharge, U-turn, Sunsteel, Coverage for 4x resists, If Leppa then Recycle, SD, SG/DD)

What are resists just flinch LOL.

Zamazenta @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire / Fur Coat / Ice Scales
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Roost
- Filler
- Filler

Honestly unsure of what you are supposed to run on this, Flash Fire is just good for avoiding the fire coverage but FC is also really solid considering Zacian is a massive threat and won't run Fire Coverage much because Pex. Scales could also be useful to check Kyurem-W but overall physical attackers are much more threatening.

Eternatus @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate / Fur Coat / Whatever?
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Tail / Anchor Shot / Spirit Shackle
- Roost
- Dynamax Cannon / Sludge Bomb / ?
- Lava Plume / Toxic / Filler?

Also unsure what you run on this but Eternatus has close to Giratina-O stats which is valuable in this toned down meta. Levitate avoids Ground weakness while FC handles some physical attackers. Resistance to broken moves like Bolt Beak is definitely helpful. Speed is also really good to eat V-creates from stuff like Darm

Darmanitan-Zen @ Choice Band / Heavy Duty Boots / Life Orb
Ability: Desolate Land / Adaptability / Mold Breaker / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- V-create / Flare Blitz
- Icicle Crash
- Bolt Beak
- U-turn

The new V-create spammer with coverage for stuff like Eternatus. Good speed good attack. Weak to rocks limits viability imo.

Dragapult / Marshadow @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Entrainment
- Multi-Attack
- Dragon Dance / Shift Gear / Shell Smash
- V-create / Bolt Beak

No Rev Dance means that the only checks are other Memories or Magic Bounce, and there aren't exactly a good amount of Ghost resists. Bounce Tyranitar is a good check but Tyranitar seems really terrible in this meta as bait for Zacian (Zamazenta as well but it isn't as much of a threat).

Dragapult / Marshadow @ Ghost Memory
Ability: Mold Breaker / Dazzling / Whatever you want
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Close Combat
- Shell Smash / Shift Gear / Dragon Dance
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Filler

This breaks a lot of Normalize checks with +2 Ghost Fighting coverage.

Mewtwo @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Ability: Sheer Force / Psychic Surge? / Tinted Lens / Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Psychic / Psystrike / Photon Geyser
- Earth Power / Blue Flare
- Moongeist Beam
- Blue Flare / Bolt Strike / Volt Switch / Moonblast

Not a great speed tier anymore but still very very terrifying. Chansey nuked Cress nuked leaves very few checks.

Shedinja @ Heavy Duty Boots / Protective Pads
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Endeavor / (Pain Split)
- Volt Switch / Baton Pass / U-turn
- Stealth Rock / Defog
- Ice Shard / Extreme Speed

Absolutely disgusting with a new tool for offensive teams or teams that have good Knock Off support/weak to hazards. Magma got deleted. This thing can finally be banned because its even better than last gen. Oh yeah notice how our ghosts are Marsh, Dragapult, Gengar, Chandelure, Opposing Shed, Dhelmise, and Jellicent. Three of them are defensive, including opposing Shed, and two pretty weak defensive mons. Disgusting.
 
Just spouting off some random thoughts off the top of my head:

Cinderace's Hidden Ability is basically Protean in all but name; it doesn't have the movepool diversity of Greninja, but it's still fast and powerful, so I wouldn't be surprised to see this thing in OU.

Inteleon has some epic Special Attacking stats, but a less-than-stellar movepool isn't doing it any favors. But at least it has U-Turn, so I guess at least it can pivot when needed... yeah, I see this probably being UU.

Obstagoon feels like a missed opportunity; Obstruct seems like an interesting attack, but 95 Speed isn't particularly great, Base 90 Attack is underwhelming, and it doesn't even get Sucker Punch or Extreme Speed to take advantage of the Defense drop Obstruct gives. Too bad.

Bolthund seems kinda interesting; 90/90/121 offensive stats, Strong Jaw, and several biting moves sound like an interesting combination. Then one remembers that Zeraora exists and, yeah, forget everything I just said.

Coalossal is another missed opportunity. I like Steam Engine and Tar Shot. What I don't like is that its Speed stat is 30 and it has two double weaknesses.

Barraskewda could definitely be a powerhouse with its massive Attack and Speed. Propeller Tail ignores opponents' Abilities, and it has a bunch of physical attacks at its disposal. I could definitely see this as a potential OU contender. Gotta love how Cramorant ultimately ends up playing second fiddle to its prey in terms of usefulness in battle.

Sirfetch'd... well, at least it's eons better than Farfetch'd.

Cursola basically gets Perish Song as an Ability, which triggers when it gets hit with a Contact move. Unfortunately, horrible physical bulk doesn't help out with that very much. I'll be sold on this when I see it used effectively.

So Runerigus is basically a Ground-type variant of Cofagrigus with its attacks swapped around. I suppose I could see this being usable.

Polteageist could be a deadly threat with Shell Smash and Base 134 Special Attack if not for its offensive movepool being horrible.

Dragapult is almost a lock for OU if it doesn't get banned. 120/100 attack stats and 142 Speed, plus a solid Ghost/Dragon typing, U-Turn, Dragon Darts, multiple coverage options, and 3 usable Abilities all at its disposal all suggest a legit threat. I'm not exactly getting DPP Garchomp vibes from it, but I could definitely see this being a staple of the OU metagame.

Aegislash has nerfed stats now, but I'm not holding my breath expecting it to be brought back into OU; King's Shield and the ability to play lack-of-mind games with opponents are still just as present as ever, so unless one of the many new Ghost-types we have now are able to handle it more effectively, it's probably staying in Ubers. I'll be the first to eat my words if not.


A few other random observations:

A lot of mons now get access to Weather Ball, including all the weather starters. I just know someone's going to find a clever way to use this move, but I can't decide for the life of me what it would be (and knowing my luck, it'll probably be with Umbreon or Alolan Ninetales, which...
is just going to make me feel salty about the fact that I didn't think of finding new and interesting ways to use my respective favorites from gens 2 and 7 despite managing to find ways of using them on OU and even Ubers teams last generation while everyone and their mother was saying they're unusable in those tiers and then someone else comes along and finds a more interesting way to play them that I didn't even think of and suddenly I find myself losing my mind trying to figure out how I didn't come up with that strategy...)
...Okay, I'll stop now.

Room Service is just bound to be abused with Trick Room as well.

Seems as though Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing don't do much other than raise the Pokemon's HP through the roof for 3 turns and give some additional powerful attacks. I could see moments where that could be a clutch feature to have on a Pokemon, but it feels somewhat anticlimactic compared to Mega Evolutions and Z-moves. Yeah, I'm one of a multitude who's salty about those features being removed, bite me.

That's all I have for now.
 
Cramorant, Thievul, and Morpeko are the new fully evolved additions to Mediocremons. While they won't see the light of most metagames, they will at least be able to make quite a splash there, with their high speeds in the tier, and their respective tools of Gulp Missile, Stakeout, and Aura Wheel.

Impidimp might be pretty good in Suicide Cup, with Prankster Taunt, Trick, Substitute, Torment, and Thunderwave.

In general though, Suicide Cup has sadly lost some play style diversity and several of its key mons. Snatch is no more, as are the premier Perish Song-Baton Pass users--Smeargle and Mega Absol (Celebi still holds the combination). Other major losses include Slowpoke, Murkrow, Walrein, Lickitung, and Poliwag. But the meta does still have the Goth family, Accelgor, Espeon, Charizard, Mewtwo, and several others.

Whatever happened to that metagame anyway? I never saw it back as a voting option. I miss it. It was one of my favorites.
 
With the recent information that Dynamaxed Pokemon can't be choice locked, I realized that this has huge implications for Ditto. Not only is Ditto's role of revenge killing setup mons even stronger thanks to some max moves giving stat boosts, but once it kills the opposing sweeper, countersweeping is even easier, as you can Dynamax your Ditto and get access to more coverage.
 
Unfortunately, Suicide Cup hasn't been playable for like a year as of today, and its Tier Leader (Adrian Marin) seems to be missing( I never saw him online for a long time...).
Actually, you can still play Suicide Cup on https://rom.psim.us/, but you'll have a more convenient time facing the local bot (Abyssal Bot) there unless you can coordinate with a fellow Suicide Cup fan.
 
Thanks, but meh, I don’t really consider that “playable.” Hopefully it can get a ladder again at some point this gen for at least a month.

On other observations, Flapple will be a really good offensive crevolution. +70 attack and hustle and +40 speed. Will be really good on wall breakers and anyone with the typing to pull off a hone claws. Crevolving to bolthund will be good for hyper offense with its +90 speed and strong jaw.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
This Pokemon is literally Kyurem-B on Fire.

1573882785701.png

No, it’s not a Kirby character. Again... no - It’s not a spawn of IT.

This is the new, and offensive Darmanitan-Zen Mode. All-around Boss and future reigning King of Fire AND Ice-types in BH.

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Give it Dazzling / or Tough Claws, Max Flare, and pile on the dual-STAB + a coverage move and you hit as hard as Diancie-Mega once did, with the Speed that Lopunny-Mega once had... and realize, that without Mega Stones, few can match, let alone outpace, this Fiery Snowman of Firepower.

All Hail Darmanitan-Zen Mode Galar Form. King of STAB coverage.
 
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Calling for a quickban of Neutralizing Gas in BH

If you thought setup was hahrder to check in gen 7, boy have you seen nothing yet. If an ng mon gets set up, no Unaware, Prankster, Imposter, Fur Coat, Ice Scales or Sturdy mon will be able to stop it. Prepare to run Sash Magic Guard on at least 1 mon, or make sure Stealth Rock never goes up (pretty difficult because of Neutralizing Gas + Dynamax), and run Spectral THief/Heart Swap.

I do think Dynamax is pretty crazy but I also heard that some of the base powers on the moves were incorrectly programmed. It does seem like the player who dynamaxes first will force the other player to Dynamax in order to have a chance, especially if they manage to set up on a forced switch, so important to watch out for that.

one mon that looks cool once Neutralizing Gas is gone:
Ferrothorn: resisting both Eternitus and Zatian's STAB moves is great. It's also a solid stop to SF Mewtwo, and gets stab on behemoth bash which lets it hit Dynamaxed mons really hard. I experimented with a set of Behemoth Bash / Recover / Snap Trap / Filler with solid results. Snap Trap lets you hit Sturdy Shed, and you could run Anchor to trap Imposter.
 
STABmons:

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Play Rough
- Taunt / Thunder Wave
- Parting Shot
- Moonlight

Given how snowball heavy Generation 8 is becoming I'd like to highlight Grimmsnarl as the latest in anti-setup options. Whilst it's still fairly frail it does have Play Rough to beat down on other Dark types and is now capable of recovery to act as a tank if need be, taking on mons like Dragapult, Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and a few other top picks for the current metagame.

Lucario @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Final Gambit
- Stone Edge

Potential anti-Dynamax revenge killer, likely outclassed by Dragapult but never-the-less likely usable against a multitude of builds seeing as the general Fighting checks are gone.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Body Slam
- Slack Off
- Court Change
- Crunch

Court Change looks to be incredibly potent, especially for passive mons like Snorlax - simply changing hazards from a Ferrothorn and even eliminating screens makes this such a solid anti-cheese option that I question its position in STAB.

Indeedee (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Photon Geyser
- Boomburst
- Psystrike
- Dazzling Gleam

This thing is either gonna be the scariest breaker ever or a complete flop.
 
I'm kind of new to competitive pokemon and I woulk like to get some opinions on this corviknight set... It's specially defensive, once on field it would use iron defense and roost up.
Power trip powers up with each def boost
Body press uses the users def stat instead of atk to calculate damage.
I would consider replacing iron defense with bulk up and there's possibly a better item.

Thank you for the attention :D



Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Power Trip
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Edit 1: Imma try it with Weakness policy instead of leftovers.

Edit 2: Weakness policy works amazingly! Here is a couple of replays showing off the sucess it can have: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8oubeta-1011377444
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8oubeta-1011461021
Also, it should be noted that it is still very weak to special attacks. Be careful with those.

WARNING: Showdown seems to still be mis-calculating the damage that body press should deal, I imagine this bug will be fixed in the near future. Maybe just replace that move with another attacking one (brave bird?) until it's fixed

Current set:
Corviknight @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Power Trip
- Body Press
- Roost
 
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Eiscue
Ice Face Form

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No Ice Form

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Ice Face
Game's Text:
The Pokémon's ice head can take a physical attack as a substitute, but the attack also changes the Pokémon's appearance. The ice will be restored when it hails.
If i'm reading this right, this dude has a free sub up with ice face, once it breaks and turns into it's noice form with 130 speed + a free belly drum




Eiscue-Noice @ Lum Berry
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Substitute/Liquidation
- Reversal
problems:
-not knowing if belly drum breaks it's sub
-it's coverage is pretty horrible
- reversal is his only move besides liquidation to hit steels
-murdered by mold breakers, especially excadrill
-252/252 for hp and attack could help it, especially with 130 base speed
 
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G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Eiscue
Ice Face Form

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No Ice Form



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Ice Face
Game's Text:
The Pokémon's ice head can take a physical attack as a substitute, but the attack also changes the Pokémon's appearance. The ice will be restored when it hails.
If i'm reading this right, this dude has a free sub up with ice face, once it breaks and turns into it's noice form with 130 speed + a free belly drum






Eiscue-Noice @ Lum Berry
Ability: Ice Face
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Substitute/Liquidation
- Reversal
problems:
-not knowing if belly drum breaks it's sub
-it's coverage is pretty horrible
- reversal is his only move besides liquidation to hit steels
-murdered by mold breakers, especially excadrill
-252/252 for hp and attack could help it, especially with 130 base speed
Needs Zen Headbutt to actually beat Pex
And at +6 with a Dynamax not much steels will be taking a Liquidation / Waterfall
 
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