Gen 8 Discussion Thread

[GnuGnu]

All 3 starters seem usable, with Cinderace being obvious OU material and the others will depend on how low the power creep is this generation. Rillaboom could be a poor man's bulu and Inteleon's stats are well distributed so I can't imagine that one being any lower than UU.

Corviknight could have fringe viability as a pure defogger. It's mostly just a bad skarmory but that mon doesn't exist anymore and at least 85 Sp Def ain't too shabby.

Appletun's Ripen ability has some sick meme potential and Thick Fat is very decent too on a Grass/Dragon. Good stats and good move pool, idk if this thing is good but i'll definitely be trying it out. This will be definitely be used in some tier, someway or another.

Polteageist is cool and I can already imagine the weak armour cheese sets that people are planning.

Hatterene on paper seems amazing with Magic Bounce, lele typing, 136 sp. atk, great support move pool and great offensive move pool. Its speed sucks (seems to be a trend with every new pokemon???) and no recovery but so far I can't imagine this not being OU.

I don't think Grimmsnarl is particularly good but its typing is cool it has Prankster Screens.

Perish Body is an amazing ability but doesn't go well with Cursola's stats, probably still worth trying out just for the memes. 145 SpA and 130 SpDef are fantastic and I just feel like Ghost types in general will be so much better without the existence of Pursuit.

I like Runerigus. Low BST but well allocated, good ability, unique typing. Spike Blocker with Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes and great defensive stats. Respectable 95 Atk with STAB Earthquake. No recovery.

Indeedee isn't completely terrible so if Psychic Terrain is needed, it might just barely be good enough to be worth it.

Copperajah seems pretty awesome with 130 Atk, Pure Steel Typing and Sheer Force. Has potential.

All the weather dragons seem kinda usable but they have no boosting moves and their actual attacking stats aren't the best. It has worked in the past for things like Kingdra, but unlike Kingdra their attacks won't get boosted by the respective weathers. On the bright side, they could bring unique typings for their specificities archetypes.

Duraludon could be an OU contender with Steel/Dragon, decent stats and a very cool hidden ability. Has Stealth Rock too.

Yeah, Dragapult is easily OU and while DD is the obvious set, I even think mixed sets will be viable with its move pool and very usable 100 SpA. This thing would've been so good with Z-Moves but instead will have to use Phantom Force as its best ghost STAB.

No Hidden Power and Pursuit will really have a huge impact in this metagame. No more band-aids for SpAttackers who don't have the move pool to surpass their checks. No more pursuit trapping is huge especially since Oprah give out Nasty Plot to everyone. Seems like Gen 8 added some decently viable ghosts as well so I wouldn't be surprised if people just spam ghost types for the first month.

 

[Ivy]

If eternal gigantoman is freed, then the Pokéstar mons should be freed in gen 5 BH, smh.

 

[sumwun]

big picture

The best "10 more minutes mom" of all time may now softboil in peace. She will be missed.

Yeah I'm definitely going to hide in Ruins of Alph unless she comes back sometime in the far future. Y'all are welcome to join us.

 

[Roldski32]

Octolock - The user locks the target in and prevents it from fleeing. This move also lowers the target’s Defense and Sp. Def every turn.

AKA: **** Stall. but its probably just gimmicky, so meh

 

[LordHelix]

Those are deleted mechanics. NatDex only assumes that all Pokemon can be transferred from USUM to SWSH. I'm sure there'll be a Pet Mod of some sort with all deleted mechanics.

I really hope u let the community decide or vote and not just make it a one man decision. it makes no sense to remove the moves and megas but allow the pokemon

The audience that wants the the dex back want ALL the mons back, including megas. I doubt theyll want removal of moves too

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I really hope u let the community decide or vote and not just make it a one man decision. it makes no sense to remove the moves and megas but allow the pokemon

The audience that wants the the dex back want ALL the mons back, including megas. I doubt theyll want removal of moves too

It makes complete sense to not allow the megas, as they're not their own Pokemon. And it makes even more complete sense to not allow z-moves, because they're not even Pokemon.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more a Nat Dex meta seems like an awful idea.

 

[Chessking345]

So for BH
Boosted version of Eternatus should be qbed before meta starts
Neutralizing Gas should also be qbed before meta starts. Run setup with this thing and block Imposter, Unaware, Prankster, etc.
Intrepid Sword should be considered for qb before meta starts. Basically when combined with Moldy Moves its a better Hustle and approaches HP/PP level. For physical attackers this outclasses Steelworker, almost outclasses surges, almost outclasses weathers, outclasses TC, outclasses Adapt, etc.
Libero is just Protean so should be easy qb
Apart from broken stuff...

120 bp multi-attack should be interesting as it now contests with Judgment for self-improof sets. Could see stuff like Multi-Attack Dragapult for example.
Special FC is nice for special walls without being RegenVest which we all know sucks.
Wandering Spirit seems fun as like a better Mummy to punish Regenerators and scout other abilities.
Punk Rock seems like a potentially better Soundproof on some bulkier mons but its best user is probably Arceus... which doesn't exist. Unsure what else would run this over Soundproof.
Moves like Dragon Darts and Pyro Ball are nice improvements over what we had. Actually maybe not Pyro Ball cuz V-create.
Steel Beam has no good users outside of Lucario, Solgaleo, and Aegi-Blade, rip. Its not even good coverage for non-STAB coverage.

 

[LordHelix]

It makes complete sense to not allow the megas, as they're not their own Pokemon. And it makes even more complete sense to not allow z-moves, because they're not even Pokemon.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more a Nat Dex meta seems like an awful idea.

Its not an awful idea if its handled well. But if just one person is about to decide whats going to be playable for the whole community.. well idk how its going to turn out (no disrespect to TI)

I disagree about megas not being their own pokemon, they have their own unique typings, stats and abilities. People otherwise wouldnt have been protesting for them back alongside national dex

For moves i was talking about pursuit and return, nobody cares about Z moves

 

[Ren]

Its not an awful idea if its handled well. But if just one person is about to decide whats going to be playable for the whole community.. well idk how its going to turn out (no disrespect to TI)

I disagree about megas not being their own pokemon, they have their own unique typings, stats and abilities. People otherwise wouldnt have been protesting for them back alongside national dex

For moves i was talking about pursuit and return, nobody cares about Z moves

I can definitely agree that I personally would want megas back, but I guess the issue with that is it's kind of a subjective change (why stop at Megas?) and just off the bat it makes sense to only allow the current stuff. That being said, though, I hope there's opportunity for change in the future. I don't wanna judge something without playing it, but I also wanna be able to see if it's worth keeping (old gen other metas don't get plays).

Is the SWSH sim/NatDex sim still going to be a thing, or was that idea scrapped? Not sure who runs the Showdown twitter but it's a question to them and any others involved in the decision.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

Now I’m wondering what I’ll do with MFA since Gen 8 scraps mega evolutions.

 

[earl]

Now I’m wondering what I’ll do with MFA since Gen 8 scraps mega evolutions.

It's a pet mod, you can just keep it going

 

[The Immortal]

I really hope u let the community decide or vote and not just make it a one man decision. it makes no sense to remove the moves and megas but allow the pokemon

The audience that wants the the dex back want ALL the mons back, including megas. I doubt theyll want removal of moves too

The community can decide whatever it wants in the Pet Mod - that's literally the definition of pet mods. The NatDex OM only assumes that all Pokemon can be transferred from USUM to SWSH.

 

[hinode]

Z-moves have the extra implementation issue of... well, what happens if someone tries to use a brand new gen 8 with a Z-crystal? Does it hard fail, since they don't officially exist? Or does someone go and manually assign a Z-move effect to all the non-damaging ones? I can't imagine the latter ever being acceptable to the community at large.

According to Bulbapedia, damaging Z-moves all follow a consistent formula aside from ~5 exceptions, so assigning canonical BP to every gen 8 move would actually be viable. But "damaging gen 8 moves get Z versions, but not status ones" would certainly look weird to many people. Might be more consistent to just blanket ban Z-moves for all gen 8 moves, but at that point just banning Z-moves outright is going to look appealing to some people.

As for bringing back old moves, AFAIK that shouldn't have the sort of awkwardness that Z-moves entails, but are you going to bring back the LGPE exclusive moves in addition to the USUM ones? Or do those get axed because a lot of hardcore players hate moves with names like "Baddy Bad"?

These type of interpretation issues are inevitable for any NatDex format that goes beyond merely bringing back old Pokemon I imagine regulars of this subforum would adjust just fine to whatever interpretation gets settled on, but I expect some culture shock from Dexit refugees.

 

[Roldski32]

I was thinking about what has changed on STABmons.

Well, Melmetal is in, and looked what is a good abuser of Double Iron Bash, then...

I found this....

FLINCH!FLINCH!FLINCH!FLINCH!FLINCH!

Aside from this, there's Excadrill to abuse too.

Rotom getting Nasty Plot + no pink blob will likely see its offensive set being good.

Sylveon appreciates the absence of Celesteela and Heatran. I can see that its better than before.

Behemoth Blade and Behemoth Bash might be good against Dynamaxed mon ( Though not sure, if its hard-coded to Zacian and Zamazenta just like Dark Void and Hyperspace Fury )

Sadly, Heal Order being removed hurts Drapion the most as it loses the longevity it needs for Power Trip shenanigans.

Speaking of which, what will we do on Abilities or Move that no native user gets access like Poison Heal(No Breloom/Gliscor) or Geomancy(No Xerneas) respectively, for OMs like AAA and STABmons? Is it gonna be similar to Light of Ruin?

 

[The Number Man]

one thing i noticed is that shore up is gone, so no more recovery for ground types and tyranitar in stabmons

 

[HeatEdgeSword]

one thing i noticed is that shore up is gone, so no more recovery for ground types and tyranitar in stabmons

It's not on the removed moves list, so Shore Up should still be allowed in STABmon.

 

[かたわれ時]

I’m slightly pissed at Gamefreak for making a Pokemon so powerful they cause all the other OMs which allow legendaries (BH and PH) literally break down.

 

[Dunfan]

Here's your gen 8 crossevo bros

 

[Funbot28]

BH (speculation):

92 HP / 130 ATK / 115 DEF / 80 SPA / 115 SPD / 138 SPE / 670 BST
Steel / Fairy
Dope mon with dope typing I can see work in BH well as a check to -ate mons (although not sure how common that will be given how most of the common -ate spammers got axxed besides stuff like Kyu-B and Kyu-W). I can immediately see setup sets such as Shell Smash with the combination of something like Behemoth Blade, Power Trip, and some other form of coverage like Pyro Ball or even V-Create to cover Steels with abilities such as Neutralizing Gas to counteract stuff like Prankster Haze and Unaware and Sturdy Shed and FF Steels (lol what a broke ass ability). If this ability also neutralizes Imposter from transforming then we seriously have a problem on our hands lol.

DONT OPEN IF YOU DONT WANNA BE SCARED HOE

TOO BROKE FOR YOU HOES (Zacian-Steel Forme) @ White Herb
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Power Trip / Play Rough / Precipice Blades
- Pyro Ball / V-Create / Sacred Fire
- Shell Smash

92 HP / 130 ATK / 145 DEF / 80 SPA / 145 SPD / 128 SPE / 720 BST
Steel / Fighting
Now I don't see as much use for this form given it's typing not being as outstanding as the sword dog one but I still see use for it given it's stats ofc lol. I can see this form take a more defensive approach even with a high physical attack stat and can be a dope Ice, Dark, and Steel check (especially given how broke the sword dog might be). BellyBurden sets might still be dope to consider on this thing given how its just a slightly less powerful yet way more bulky version of Mega Luc and can probs get away with the same old set of Belly Drum / Sunsteel Strike / Mach Punch or Drain Punch / and like Power Trip or something. Might not seem to impressive at first given it is a Steel-type that does not resist Fairy, Flying, and Psychic moves which devalues it a lot, however I still have hope that a mon with stats like that can work lol.

140 HP / 85 ATK / 95 DEF / 145 SPA / 95 SPD / 130 SPE / 690 BST
Poison / Dragon
I was a bit worried about this mon at first (especially given the scare of it's now confirmed Unobtainable Forme which would have completely flipped the meta on its head for sure lul (fucking gf removing mega ray but adding a >1000 bst mon smh). Now we are left with this more tolerable form that still can have potential for sure given how dope its offensive coverage can be with it's STABs + Fire coverage (ala Naganadel). Setup / wallbreaking is probably the name of the game here again due to it's typing not being the best defensively, where sets running either Shell Smash or Tail Glow taking priority. It's nice to have a mon this fast and bulky thanks to that beefy HP stat. Interested how good this mon will fair well against Gmax mons as well given its sig move doubling against those foes as well.

Biggest Loses:

: This being gone just really fucks with things lol. Even though Neutralizing Gas would have made Imposter methods of checking setup / wallbreaking a bit of a nuisance (for a very short amount of time i assume lol), still not having such bulky Imposter mons to rely on just really will shake things up a lot. We still got high HP mons like Snorlax and Eternatus to abuse Imposter on of course, but nothing can compare to the bulk Evio Chans brought which for sure will be missed.

: Man, MMX would have really enjoyed this meta acting as an offensive check to a bunch of mons and just generally being a dope ass mon that was really shining near the end of SM BH. I feel it being gone will lower the bar of Speed tiers just a bit (besides the cover legend dogs cause lol). Although, setup sets with Neutralizing Gas would have probably been hella busted lul.

: Lumping these 3 together as they were all great offensive mons that shaped the way most balance teams were made to cover them. Steel and Dark types may not be as mandatory now to check the aforementioned mons now (although GMAX Gar may still cause somewhat of a nuisance depending on how those mechanics work).

SWSH BH seems to be a completely different metagame that i will predict will be heavily orientated towards offense in order to abuse Neutralizing Gas sweepers and the lack of super bulky imposter, Giratina, Primal Ogre, and Zyg-C will for sure lead to a less bulky meta. Not sure to be excited or not lol but i can say that it is interesting.

 

[wrink]

Those are deleted mechanics. NatDex only assumes that all Pokemon can be transferred from USUM to SWSH. I'm sure there'll be a Pet Mod of some sort with all deleted mechanics.

gee, thanks for the free knife. oh and look, you even made a little holster in our spinal cord for safe keeping. how thoughtful

 

[Ransei]

Ransei

Am I ready for Hackmons yet?​

 

[Whitephoenixace]

Well hello fellows ye olde om voice / inactive tl for trademarked here telling you im scared of galar darm in oms.

Look at this ice fire behemoth. Thid thing will be stronk in bh. Im at work though so i cant show how strong. But even in base form gorilla tactics will be really good on it as a scarfer and even worse imagine this thing in camo where it can run fire ground or ice ground or even just ice fire and act like its playing dual wielding in camo as it basically chunks ur team. We really have alot of physical threats and very little defensive ones.

Eldegoss is also something of notr i feel people arent talking about. It gets regen, rapid spin and outside of hp has passable bulk with 90/120 defenses.

Lets not sleep on polteageist either who is a ghost type with shell smash and a passable base 70+ speed and 134 spa. This thing will be nutty on the right teams especially sith pursuit being gone.

Id post more but cant necessarily talk much more from my phone at work lol. But im really looking forward to gen 8 oms. Love u guys and peace for now.

 

[anaconja]

I've compiled a Gen 8 Sheet for Cross Evolution.

A couple sets:
Frosmoth (Gastly) @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Ice Scales
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
Stats: 70/75/55/180/95/125

Pretty standard Quiver Dance set, but Ice Scales increases special bulk even more.

Flapple (Stufful) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Hustle
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Frustration
- Hammer Arm
- Ice Punch
Stats: 100/145/50/100/70/100

Flapple gets very useful things such as Hustle and Dragon Dance, perfect for any physical wallbreaker.

Also, will all crevolutions from Gen 7 be allowed as well? That sounds best for the metagame because it gives the most options.

 

[G-Luke]

Those are deleted mechanics. NatDex only assumes that all Pokemon can be transferred from USUM to SWSH. I'm sure there'll be a Pet Mod of some sort with all deleted mechanics.

 

[G-Luke]

I really hope u let the community decide or vote and not just make it a one man decision. it makes no sense to remove the moves and megas but allow the pokemon

The audience that wants the the dex back want ALL the mons back, including megas. I doubt theyll want removal of moves too

This is a silly aspect. Once you cross that border, demands that Pokémon should get moves that they most likely would gave gotten will start to happen. What happens when people start to argue Greninja should get Parting Shot since that move has been generously distributed this generation? Everyone would expect Garchomp to finally gain Dragon Dance since every Dragon got it now right? Alakazam should definitely be able to learn Nasty Plot seeing that similar Pokémon now have access to it. The reverse is true. I guess now we will decide which of the new Dark types should get Knock Off and Pursuit and what shouldn't. And while being outclassed several Pokémon in the past have had Jump Kick over High Jump Kick especially if not STAB so I guess we will have to start thinking about what Pokémon should get that too, RIGHT?