Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP9 - Colossoil

snake

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:colossoil: CAP9: Colossoil Generation 8 Update :colossoil:

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Colossoil update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Colossoil, please refer to its Generation 7 update thread for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.

This thread will be locked until snake_rattler makes their leading post.
 

snake

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It's going to take some Guts to take on Colossoil's update! Let's take a look...

Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move isn't a TM or TR in SWSH, so if we decide that it should be in Colossoil's Generation 8 movepool, it must be moved in Level Up or Egg Moves (and thus requires discussion)
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves


0 High Horsepower
0 Leer
0 Peck
Evo Move: Drill Run
5 Horn Attack
10 Bite
16 Mud-Slap
21 Rapid Spin
26 Fury Attack
32 Magnitude
37 Pursuit

42 Body Slam
48 Bounce
53 Stockpile
53 Swallow
53 Spit Up
58 Crunch
64 Megahorn
69 Giga Impact
74 Horn Drill
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM63 Embargo
TM66 Payback
TM67 Smart Strike
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM95 Snarl
TM97 Dark Pulse
TM100 Confide
Chip Away
Double-Edge
Encore
Fake Out
Fire Fang
Fissure
Flail
Horn Drill
Mimic
Sand Tomb
Screech
Sucker Punch
Thunder Fang
Wide Guard
Aqua Tail
Block
Bounce
Drill Run
Earth Power
Foul Play
Iron Tail
Knock Off
Snatch

Snore
Superpower
Ancient Power (G4 Tutor)
Captivate (G4 TM78)

Dig (TM28)
Dive (G4 Tutor)
Endure (G4 TM58)
Natural Gift (G4 TM83)
Retaliate (G5/6 TM67)
Rock Smash (G5/XY TM94 / ORAS HM06)
Rollout (G4 Tutor)
Secret Power (G4 TM43 / ORAS TM94)
Strength (HM04)


We have a lot to unpack here.

First, here are the moves that will be automatically removed: Magnitude, Pursuit, Hidden Power, Return, Frustration, Embargo, Chip Away, Snatch, Captivate, Natural Gift, and Secret Power.

Topics to Discuss:

1) Knock Off is a competitive mainstay for Colossoil, using it consistently ever since it was buffed in Gen 6. Some Dark-types kept it, while others didn't. There is precedent for moving it to its level-up movepool, as Mandibuzz only learned it by Tutor in Gen 7 but now learns it in its level up movepool in Gen 8 (taking Feint Attack's old place), and Passimian only learned it by Tutor in Gen 7 but now learns it by egg move. However, there is also precedent for it losing Knock Off, seen by Bisharp and Weavile. Should we move Knock Off somewhere else in Colossoil's movepool? If so, where?

2) Roar, Toxic, and Aqua Tail are other competitively viable moves that Colossoil doesn't make use of often. Should they be moved somewhere in the Level Up movepool or Egg movepool?

3) Double Team, Swagger, Confide, Mimic, Wide Guard, Block, Ancient Power, Rock Smash, Rollout, and Strength are non-competitive. Should they be moved somewhere else in the movepool also?

4) Are there any new TMs, TRs, or new moves introduced in SWSH that should be added to Colossoil's movepool? Keep in mind that these should be flavor-oriented additions.
 
Keep Knock Off. While there is precedent for removing it, we shouldn't risk harming Colossoil's viability too much - it just lost Pursuit, after all. It can replace Pursuit in Colossoil's Level-up movepool.
Keep Roar and Aqua Tail. They both fit flavour-wise, with Colossoil being a whale and all. Roar could fit in the Level-Up pool while Aqua Tail could be moved to Egg Moves.
Remove Toxic. Does anyone even run Toxic on Colossoil? It doesn't fit flavour-wise and doesn't affect Colossoil's overall viability from what I can see, so I'd remove it.
Keep Wide Guard, Block, Rock Smash and Strength. They all fit well flavour-wise and could work well as Egg Moves (Rock Smash could also maybe replace Magnitude as a Level-up move). It is, after all, a massive narwhal that can tunnel through the ground with ease.
Remove Rollout and Ancient Power. I don't see what's so "ancient" about Colossoil, and Rollout would be hard to pull off when it's half stuck in the ground.
Remove Double Team, Swagger, Confide and Mimic. I don't see any flavour justification for keeping any of these besides maybe Swagger.
 
I agree with everything Mega-Pokebattlerz said. While there is precedent for removing Knock Off, a lot of Pokemon kept it too, and I don't see why Colossoil shouldn't be one of them. Horn Drill should be removed from egg moves since it's in the level up pool.

In terms of new TMs/TRs, I'm looking at Iron Head, Body Press, and Hyper Voice as non-competitive flavor additions. Colossoil doesn't really have a use for Steel coverage and its Defense stat is too low for Body Press to be more viable than Superpower. Hyper Voice simply has no place in any of its movesets.
I think Nasty Plot and Surf fit the flavor and trends too, with both of them being given to a lot of things. I'm not sure how nasty or plotting Colossoil was designed to be so someone else can chime in here. Ignoring my Surf suggestion, Colossoil only has its STABs for a special movepool so it would never want to run Nasty Plot, and Guts doesn't boost Special Attack anyway. Surf adds to the whale flavor, and its Special Attack is too low to be more useful than Aqua Tail.
 
I agree with the above posts for putting Aqua Tail into the egg move list, putting Roar into the Level 1 slot, replacing Magnitude and Pursuit with Rock Smash and Knock Off respectively. As well as the potential new TRs of Nasty Plot, Iron Head and Body Press.

Other new moves I believe fit with its design are Rock Blast (Because it can use its drill on the ground to shoot out pieces of rock) and Psychic Fangs (because another Dark-type, Sharpedo also gets it, and the fact it already gets other biting moves)
 
- Considering Rock Smash's current distribution it actually does not seem that fitting, considering similar Pokémon like Rhydon, Lapras and Excadrill do not keep it. Moreover having it at level 32 is way too late.
- All of Encore, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Sand Tomb and Screech are TM/TRs and should be removed from egg moves.
- Knock Off over Pursuit seems fine.
- It should be noted that without transfers there are no viable parents for Block and Wide Guard. Consider also the case of Stufful (Field group) having it as an egg move in Sun/Moon but not in Sword/Shield, possibly due to the aforementioned lack of natural parents: if they are kept it should be as level-up moves.
- While Colossoil's previous form has not been produced yet, there do seem to be various suggestions of it being a Water-type: if Aqua Tail is kept it might be the new level 32 move. If not it works as an egg move, considering the odd case of Minccino getting it.
 

G-Luke

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Is the introduction of Ice Fang considered to much of a addition? Ice coverage is definitely powerful, but unless i am mistaken, the foes Colossoil would want to hit with Ice fang are already handled by its existing coverage.
 
We are running on a different timeline for these final updates. As you can tell here we are going to be finishing all CAP updates TOMORROW (Friday) from 8am to midnight CST. Below is a list of every suggestion that has been made in this thread to the movepool in the OP. If you have more to suggest, please do them via post or (preferably) Discord.

>> Please join our Discord channel by clicking here. We'll be discussing these updates LIVE all day! <<

Below are the suggestions that have been made thus far in this thread. The parentheses represent the recommended move to remove in order to make move. Brackets represent breeding partners, while a strikethrough represents something that was discussed, but is vetoed by later discussion for being too competitively relevant. A '' symbolizes that it a bullet point that's it's a conditional change base on its header change becoming approved.

Suggested Movepool Movement:
Knock Off to Level 37 (Pursuit)
Rock Smash to Level 32 (Magnitude)
Rock Smash to egg moves [Lucario, Mudsdale, Passimian, Sirfetch'd, Copperajah]
Roar to Level-Up (???)
Aqua Tail to Level 32 (Magnitude)
Aqua Tail to egg moves [Gyarados, Qwilfish, Whishcash, Milotic, Wishiwashi]
Wide Guard to egg moves [Bewear*]
Block to egg moves [Wailord, Rhyperior, Mamoswine, Pangoro, Oranguru, Passimian, Malamar]
Strength to egg moves [Mudsdale, Bewear, Copperajah, Rillaboom]
Encore to TR30
Fire Fang to TM68
Thunder Fang to TM66
Sand Tomb to TM49

Suggested New Moves:
Iron Head
Body Press
Hyper Voice
Nasty Plot
Surf
Ice Fang

*Only possible via breeding Colossoil with a Bewear that was bred to have Wide Guard in generation 7, and was then transferred over to generation 8.
 
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cbrevan

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With feedback from our discord, we've finished Colossoil.

Colossoil's flavor is straightforwards and already well developed with a ton of moves. As such, the only move we deemed to add is Body Press, owing to Colossoil's large, powerful body and the number of moves reliant on throwing its mass around Colossoil already has.

We decided to fill in its level up slots with moves already in its movepool. Strength will be add to the level 32 LU and Knock Off will be added to the level 37 LU.

I'll also note that Colossoil's egg moves decreased as well, as Horn Drill was already in its level up list and Encore is now a TR, while Wide Guard has no donor, meaning its transferable only.

Body Press to TM/TR
Strength to level 32 LU
Knock Off to level 37 LU
Horn Drill removed from Egg
Encore moved from Egg to TM/TM
 

Birkal

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Let's wrap this up.

Evo Move: Drill Run
1 Drill Run
1 High Horsepower
1 Leer
1 Peck
5 Horn Attack
10 Bite
16 Mud-Slap
21 Rapid Spin
26 Fury Attack
32 Strength
37 Knock Off
42 Body Slam
48 Bounce
53 Stockpile
53 Swallow
53 Spit Up
58 Crunch
64 Megahorn
69 Giga Impact
74 Horn Drill
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM15 Dig
TM21 Rest
TM22 Rock Slide
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM31 Attract
TM32 Sandstorm
TM33 Rain Dance
TM34 Sunny Day
TM39 Facade
TM43 Brick Break
TM45 Dive
TM48 Rock Tomb
TM49 Sand Tomb
TM52 Bounce
TM56 U-turn
TM57 Payback
TM66 Thunder Fang
TM68 Fire Fang
TM76 Round
TM79 Retaliate
TM81 Bulldoze
TM85 Snarl
TM96 Smart Strike
TM97 Brutal Swing
TR10 Earthquake
TR20 Substitute
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR30 Encore
TR31 Iron Tail
TR37 Taunt
TR39 Superpower
TR58 Dark Pulse
TR67 Earth Power
TR75 Stone Edge
TR81 Foul Play
TR87 Drill Run
TR99 Body Press
Double-Edge (Eevee)
Fake Out (Meowth)
Fissure (Dugtrio)
Flail (Goldeen)
Sucker Punch (Dugtrio)
Roar (Gen 7 TM)
Toxic (Gen 7 TM)
Double Team (Gen 7 TM)
Torment (Gen 7 TM)
Swagger (Gen 7 TM)
Confide (Gen 7 TM)
Mimic (Gen 7 Egg)
Wide Guard (Gen 7 Egg)
Aqua Tail (Gen 7 Tutor)
Block (Gen 7 Tutor)
Rock Smash (Gen 6 TM)
Ancient Power (Gen 4 Tutor)
Rollout (Gen 4 TM)
 
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dhelmise

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Code:
1 - Drill Run
1 - High Horsepower
1 - Leer
1 - Peck
5 - Horn Attack
10 - Bite
16 - Mud-Slap
21 - Rapid Spin
26 - Fury Attack
32 - Strength
37 - Knock Off
42 - Body Slam
48 - Bounce
53 - Stockpile
53 - Swallow
53 - Spit Up
58 - Crunch
64 - Megahorn
69 - Giga Impact
74 - Horn Drill
Egg - Double-Edge
Egg - Fake Out
Egg - Fissure
Egg - Flail
Egg - Sucker Punch
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Dig
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Rock Slide
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Sandstorm
TM/TR - Rain Dance
TM/TR - Sunny Day
TM/TR - Facade
TM/TR - Brick Break
TM/TR - Dive
TM/TR - Rock Tomb
TM/TR - Sand Tomb
TM/TR - Bounce
TM/TR - U-turn
TM/TR - Payback
TM/TR - Thunder Fang
TM/TR - Fire Fang
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Retaliate
TM/TR - Bulldoze
TM/TR - Snarl
TM/TR - Smart Strike
TM/TR - Brutal Swing
TM/TR - Earthquake
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Encore
TM/TR - Iron Tail
TM/TR - Taunt
TM/TR - Superpower
TM/TR - Dark Pulse
TM/TR - Earth Power
TM/TR - Stone Edge
TM/TR - Foul Play
TM/TR - Drill Run
TM/TR - Body Press
 
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