Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP4 - Fidgit

[Birkal]

Hello people! I'm here to guide you through the Fidgit update thread. On this journey, we will take CAP's handsiest heartthrob and edit its movepool to better match this generations flavor, trends, and precedents. Read the OP for more info on what exactly we'll be discussing.

We're starting discussion by looking at Fidgit’s move removals. To ensure discussion is focused and to keep us from being sidetracked constantly by competitiveness debates, the first half of this thread will be used to examine the moves Fidgit may lose, all of which are highlighted blue. When I feel like we've reached a suitable conclusion for those moves, I'll open this thread up to suggestions for move additions. Until then, please refer to the questions included below.

As before, the movepool has been highlighted for ease of use. Refer to this post for the explanation behind Fidgit’s level up movepool and other intricacies.

This is the color code for reading the movepool. I will be referring to these color codes throughout this thread.
Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move isn't a TM or TR in SWSH, so if we decide that it should be in Fidgit Generation 8 movepool, it must be moved in Level Up or Egg Moves (and thus requires discussion)
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves

(Huge thanks to Dogfish44 for helping consolidate this movepool.)

Level Up

- Drill Run
- Rototiller
- Wide Guard
- Comet Punch
- Gust
- Tailwind
- Helping Hand
Evolution: Drill Run
5 Encore
9 Rapid Spin
14 Knock Off
19 Copycat
25 Whirlwind
30 Body Slam
35 Sludge Bomb
41 Toxic Spikes
47 Gravity
54 Heal Block
60 Earth Power
65 Lucky Chant

Egg Moves

Disable
Double-Edge
Entrainment
Follow Me
Me First
Metronome
Mimic
Spikes
Wish

TMs

TM06 Toxic
TM09 Venoshock
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM32 Double Team
TM33 Reflect
TM34 Sludge Wave
TM36 Sludge Bomb
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Sand Tomb
TM40 Aerial Ace
TM41 Torment
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM49 Snatch
TM56 Fling
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM62 Acrobatics
TM68 Giga Impact
TM71 Stone Edge
TM77 Psych Up
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM84 Poison Jab
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM89 U-turn
TM90 Substitute
TM92 Trick Room
TM100 Confide

Tutors

After You
Block
Drill Run
Earth Power
Gastro Acid
Gravity
Helping Hand
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Magic Room
Mud-Slap
Ominous Wind
Role Play
Skill Swap
Snore
Stealth Rock
Swift
Tailwind
Twister
Wonder Room

Transfer Only

Captivate
Dig
Endure
Natural Gift
Rock Smash
Secret Power

Discussion questions:

1. Of the blue highlighted moves in Fidgit’s extensive TM and Tutor lists, which moves standout as being worth preserving? Are any of these moves sufficiently flavorful to be transferred to egg moves (if a parent exists) or the level up list?

2. Which moves in general should we preserve for Fidgit? Any you are fine with letting go? Why?

3. Are there any moves we should be adding? Fidgit has traditionally enjoyed a wide variety of support options. Are there any introduced this generation that we should consider?

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

Metronome, Spikes and Sand Tomb are TMs/TRs so they can be removed from the egg move list. Toxic can replace Lucky Chant as the Level 65 move. Because this CAP's concept is all about setting and removing hazards, what if it could swap them too. So I don't know if adding existing signature moves is allowed, but Court Change could be a great addition to Fidgit. You could either make Court Change the Lucky Chant replacement which in turn would make Toxic replace Heal Block, or you could add it as an egg move since it can breed with Cinderace.

And regarding new TM and TR moves, I think Power Swap and Guard Swap are fine additions for it given its role as a support Pokémon. Also since it gets Body Slam, and with its high Defense, Body Press would make a fine addition as well.

 

[theotherguytm]

Because this CAP's concept is all about setting and removing hazards, what if it could swap them too. So I don't know if adding existing signature moves is allowed, but Court Change could be a great addition to Fidgit.

1. No, that is not Fidgit's concept. Fidgit's concept is "Utility" not "Hazards". Which usually means in practice "Trick Room", thanks to Persistent.
2. This update is strictly not about competitively buffing Pokemon, and Court Change would be a major buff to an already powerful Pokemon. I don't think I even need to explain why, imagine if Excadrill got Court Change and no longer had to choose between Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. Like that.
3. Also yes, adding signatures is a no-go unless whoever's in charge gives express permission.

Also since it gets Body Slam, and with its high Defense, Body Press would make a fine addition as well.

Disagree on this too, Fidgit looks far too small to learn Body Press, and it would again be a competitive addition. Though I'm open to persuasion.
As for my thoughts:

1. Of the blue highlighted moves in Fidgit’s extensive TM and Tutor lists, which moves standout as being worth preserving?

Tailwind

Save Urgently. The rest are probably fine (it never has space to run Toxic I think). Though Mud-Slap, Role Play and possibly Aerial Ace make sense flavour wise.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

1. No, that is not Fidgit's concept. Fidgit's concept is "Utility" not "Hazards". Which usually means in practice "Trick Room", thanks to Persistent.
2. This update is strictly not about competitively buffing Pokemon, and Court Change would be a major buff to an already powerful Pokemon. I don't think I even need to explain why, imagine if Excadrill got Court Change and no longer had to choose between Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock. Like that.
3. Also yes, adding signatures is a no-go unless whoever's in charge gives express permission.

Disagree on this too, Fidgit looks far too small to learn Body Press, and it would again be a competitive addition. Though I'm open to persuasion.
On that note:


Save Urgently. The rest are probably fine (it never has space to run Toxic I think). Though Mud-Slap, Role Play and possibly Aerial Ace make sense flavour wise.

Carbink is much smaller and through the Home datamine it's confirmed to get Body Press :/

 

[theotherguytm]

Carbink is much smaller and through the Home datamine it's confirmed to get Body Press :/

1. Assuming said datamine is accurate (Nat Dex has already decided against incorporating it in case it's not the final movepool changes or wrong).
2. Carbink is a rock. A single heavy object that can press against something. Fidgit is a mess of limbs. It does not have the bulk to press against anything. By your logic, everything larger than Carbink should get Body Press, which is clearly untrue.

 

[LucarioOfLegends]

Just a reminder, thanks to Home all blue moves not moved will instead turn into transfers. Anyways, questions.

1. I feel like a lot of the moves in blue actually fit with how Fidgit runs so far, and can certainly be used to fill holes in its numerous level-up losses. My main ones right now are Gastro Acid, Psych Up, and Tailwind I feel like all four off these things really embrace Fidgit naturally tricky nature, and I think having Tailwind out of Tutors would be good future proofing. Gastro Acid and Psych Up can replace Rototiller and Comet Punch respectively, while Tailwind can replace Heal Block due to its proximity to Gravity. I see no real reason to give Lucky Chant a solid replacement, unless we would like to move Toxic.

2. See no reason in particular to remove anything else aside from other blues moving to transfers.

3. Down with the already mentioned Power Swap and Guard Swap as I think they work with Fidgit's naturally tricky nature. Also second in opposition of Body Press flavorwise. Fidgit is a gigantic mess of limbs, and doesn't really have a solid unit one could consider a "body" to press with. Also would like to say that Mega Punch is not a good addition to Fidgit considering the flavor reasoning of a somewhat similar punching move: Focus Punch. Even if it does have a fist to punch with, I do not think it fits Fidgit to condense its pent up energy into one fits as opposed to its other 7, as seen by the now removed focus Punch. Also no to Court Change, it is currently an exclusive and see no compelling reason to give it out right now and it is certainly a buff to whatever mon gets it and adds even more options to its movepool. I think this exceeds guidelines sets out and is beyond a reasonable buff.

 

[CoolMan6001]

Toxic should absolutely be kept. There's predescent of other utility mons keeping it such as Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz. It could go in Egg moves. (Stunky/Skuntank pass it) Block has it's place in Heal Block's place as a different kind of block. Tailwind can be kept too, although no donors exist so it would have to go in place of Rotitoller. Gastro Acid, although less arguably, may be kept too.

The Lucky Chant slot should probably be removed.

 

[Birkal]

We are running on a different timeline for these final updates. As you can tell here we are going to be finishing all CAP updates TOMORROW (Friday) from 8am to midnight CST. Below is a list of every suggestion that has been made in this thread to the movepool in the OP. If you have more to suggest, please do them via post or (preferably) Discord.

>> Please join our Discord channel by clicking here. We'll be discussing these updates LIVE all day! <<

Below are the suggestions that have been made thus far in this thread. The parentheses represent the recommended move to remove in order to make move. Brackets represent breeding partners, while a strikethrough represents something that was discussed, but is vetoed by later discussion for being too competitively relevant.

Suggested Movepool Movement:
Toxic to Level 65 (Lucky Chant)
Toxic to Level 54 (Heal Block)
Toxic to Egg [Breed from Skuntank]
Tailwind to Level 54 (Heal Block)
Gastro Acid to Heart Scale (Rototiller)
Psych Up to Heart Scale (Comet Punch)
Block to Level 54 (Heal Block)

Suggested New Moves:
Power Swap
Guard Swap
Body Press
Court Change

 

[Birkal]

Whoo boy, we're done here! Our discussion on Discord was a lot of fun. We added Stomping Tantrum and Mud Shot for its Ground-typing, Bounce Metronome, and Mega Punch for its hands, Self-Destruct because many Pokemon like it can explode, Gunk Shot for Poison STAB on movepool, Smart Strike for its horn, and Speed Swap for its tricky nature. Court Change was denied due to how bonkers it is as a move. But that about sums it up! Thanks to everyone who contributed, on the forums or Discord. Both played a role in updating this massive movepool. Especially thanks to wulfanator72 for helping me with half of the movepool admin!

Level Up

1 Drill Run
1 Gastro Acid
1 Wide Guard
1 Gust
1 Tailwind
1 Helping Hand
1 Encore
9 Rapid Spin
14 Knock Off
19 Copycat
25 Whirlwind
30 Body Slam
35 Sludge Bomb
41 Toxic Spikes
47 Gravity
54 Toxic
60 Earth Power
65 Gunk Shot
Evolution: Drill Run

Egg Moves

Disable
Double-Edge
Entrainment
Follow Me
Mimic
Wish

TMs

TM00 Mega Punch
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM17 Light Screen
TM18 Reflect
TM19 Safeguard
TM20 Self-Destruct
TM21 Rest
TM22 Rock Slide
TM23 Thief
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM27 Icy Wind
TM31 Attract
TM32 Sandstorm
TM33 Rain Dance
TM34 Sunny Day
TM39 Facade
TM40 Swift
TM41 Helping Hand
TM49 Sand Tomb
TM52 Bounce
TM53 Mud Shot
TM56 U-turn
TM59 Fling
TM62 Speed Swap
TM70 Trick Room
TM71 Wonder Room
TM72 Magic Room
TM74 Venoshock
TM76 Round
TM78 Acrobatics
TM81 Bulldoze
TM96 Smart Strike
TM97 Brutal Swing
TM98 Stomping Tantrum

TR Moves

TR10 Earthquake
TR14 Metronome
TR20 Substitute
TR22 Sludge Bomb
TR23 Spikes
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR33 Shadow Ball
TR37 Taunt
TR40 Skill Swap
TR57 Poison Jab
TR67 Earth Power
TR73 Gunk Shot
TR75 Stone Edge
TR76 Stealth Rock
TR78 Sludge Wave
TR87 Drill Run

Transfer Only

Toxic (Gen 7 TM)
Double Team (Gen 7 TM)
Aerial Ace (Gen 7 TM)
Torment (Gen 7 TM)
Psych Up (Gen 7 TM)
Swagger (Gen 7 TM)
Confide (Gen 7 TM)
Mud-Slap (Gen 7 Tutor)
Role Play (Gen 7 Tutor)
Tailwind (Gen 7 Tutor)
Twister (Gen 7 Tutor)
After You (Gen 6 Tutor)
Block (Gen 6 Tutor)
Dig (Gen 6 TM)
Endure (Gen 6 TM)
Rock Smash (Gen 5 TM)

 

[dhelmise]

1 - Drill Run
1 - Gastro Acid
1 - Wide Guard
1 - Gust
1 - Tailwind
1 - Helping Hand
1 - Encore
9 - Rapid Spin
14 - Knock Off
19 - Copycat
25 - Whirlwind
30 - Body Slam
33 - Drill Run
35 - Sludge Bomb
41 - Toxic Spikes
47 - Gravity
54 - Toxic
60 - Earth Power
65 - Gunk Shot
Egg - Disable
Egg - Double-Edge
Egg - Entrainment
Egg - Follow Me
Egg - Mimic
Egg - Wish
TM/TR - Mega Punch
TM/TR - Hyper Beam
TM/TR - Giga Impact
TM/TR - Light Screen
TM/TR - Reflect
TM/TR - Safeguard
TM/TR - Self-Destruct
TM/TR - Rest
TM/TR - Rock Slide
TM/TR - Thief
TM/TR - Snore
TM/TR - Protect
TM/TR - Icy Wind
TM/TR - Attract
TM/TR - Sandstorm
TM/TR - Rain Dance
TM/TR - Sunny Day
TM/TR - Facade
TM/TR - Swift
TM/TR - Helping Hand
TM/TR - Sand Tomb
TM/TR - Bounce
TM/TR - Mud Shot
TM/TR - U-turn
TM/TR - Fling
TM/TR - Speed Swap
TM/TR - Trick Room
TM/TR - Wonder Room
TM/TR - Magic Room
TM/TR - Venoshock
TM/TR - Round
TM/TR - Acrobatics
TM/TR - Bulldoze
TM/TR - Smart Strike
TM/TR - Brutal Swing
TM/TR - Stomping Tantrum
TM/TR - Earthquake
TM/TR - Metronome
TM/TR - Substitute
TM/TR - Sludge Bomb
TM/TR - Spikes
TM/TR - Endure
TM/TR - Sleep Talk
TM/TR - Shadow Ball
TM/TR - Taunt
TM/TR - Skill Swap
TM/TR - Poison Jab
TM/TR - Earth Power
TM/TR - Gunk Shot
TM/TR - Stone Edge
TM/TR - Stealth Rock
TM/TR - Sludge Wave
TM/TR - Drill Run

 

[Birkal]

Fidgit also has Metronome and Spikes listed as egg, but should only be listed as TM/TR moves.

Fixed and edited into the code.