Done Gen 8 CAP Updates - CAP2 - Revenankh

[cbrevan]

CAP2: Revenankh ○ Generation 8 Update ​

Hello! Welcome to the Generation 8 Revenankh update thread. In this thread, we will be updating the movepool of one of our past CAP creations to better match the changes Gamefreak made in Generation 8.

A major change that occurred between this update cycle and the last was to significantly narrow the scope of CAP updates. Abilities, statlines, and typings will not be changed during the course of this update. Only changes to a CAP's movepool will be allowed. Additionally, full movepool changes are also off the table, as the Update Leaders will decide where to distribute moves for their respective Pokemon based off logic and the ICC.

Furthermore, we have defined what type of changes are allowed to movepools, as well as the type of moves up for discussion. Movepool changes will be broken down in two categories: removals and additions. Moves that are subject to removal are those that have been rendered unusable in Sword and Shield, such as Pursuit, and past generation tutors and Technical Machiness that are not available as a Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Move that are subject to addition are moves introduced in Sword and Shield and moves that are new Generation 8 Technical Machines or Technical Records. Please make sure that any moves brought up in this thread fall under at least one of these categories.

We have also defined the following considerations for use in evaluating move removals and additions. The foremost consideration is that any change proposed fits both the flavor of the CAP in question and the flavor of Generation 8 as a whole. This means that all changes should follow trends and precedents seen in Generation 8. Intentional buffing and balancing of CAP Pokemon is not the intent of this update cycle. We also wish to avoid the creation of an unbalanced CAP Pokemon. Therefore, the second consideration for move changes is the competitive impact of said changes. Moves that are clearly too powerful will be banned from discussion by the Update Leader.

This update cycle also has a set schedule. For four weeks, each of the seven Update Leaders will post a discussion thread for a single CAP Pokemon. This thread will be used for the discussion of changes to a CAPs movepool as explained in this post. Each thread will have six days reserved for discussion on potential changes to a CAP's movepool. On the seventh day, the Update Leader will collect the ICC and determine what will be changed. Controversial changes will be subject to a poll.

For the discussion of Revenankh, please refer to this post for the CAP's full movepool. Some other resources the CAP mods have compiled to make discussion easier is this list of cut moves that are distributed to our CAP pokemon, and this list of past TMs that were not included as Gen 8 TMs and TRs. Note that for the TM list, moves with * are those that have been cut entirely.

This thread will be locked until cbrevan makes their leading post.

 

[cbrevan]

Hello people! I'm here to guide you through the Revenankh update thread. On this journey, we will take the world's coolest mummy and edit its movepool to better match this generations flavor, trends, and precedents. Read the OP for more info on what exactly we'll be discussing.

We're starting discussion by looking at Revenankh's move removals. I want us to move through this thread at the pace of one week, as the OP has allotted that length of time as our target goal. To ensure discussion is focused and to keep us from being sidetracked constantly by competitiveness debates, the first half of this thread will be used to examine the moves Revenankh may lose, all of which are highlighted blue. When I feel like we've reached a suitable conclusion for those moves, I'll open this thread up to suggestions for move additions. Until then, please refer to the questions included below.

As before, the movepool has been highlighted for ease of use. Refer to this post for the explanation behind Revenankh's level up movepool and other intricacies.

This is the color code for reading the movepool. I will be referring to these color codes throughout this thread.

Red means the move is not in SWSH
Blue means the move isn't a TM or TR in SWSH, so if we decide that it should be in Revenankh's Generation 8 movepool, it must be moved in Level Up or Egg Moves (and thus requires discussion)
Green moves would be blue, except the move already appears in Level Up or Egg Moves

Level Up Movepool

- Wrap
- Bide
5 Sand Tomb
9 Shadow Sneak
13 Arm Thrust
18 Mean Look
23 Rock Tomb
26 Glare
29 Shadow Punch
33 Revenge
38 Payback
44 Drain Punch
48 Quick Guard
52 Power Whip
57 Hammer Arm
62 Moonlight
66 Wring Out
71 Punishment

Tutor Moves

Bind
Drain Punch
Dual Chop
Focus Punch
Helping Hand
Ice Punch
Knock Off
Pain Split
Snore
Spite
Superpower
Trick

Egg Moves (Amorphous / Human-like)

Counter (Hitmonchan)
Curse (Gengar)
Destiny Bond (Runerigus)
Force Palm (Lucario)
Hex (Gengar)
Mach Punch (Hitmonchan)
Memento (Galarian Weezing)
Metronome (now a TR)
Mimic (Mr. Mime)
Nasty Plot (now a TR)
Ominous Wind
Shadow Sneak (Sableye)

TM List

TM01 Work Up
TM06 Toxic
TM08 Bulk Up
TM11 Sunny Day
TM12 Taunt
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM18 Rain Dance
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM23 Smack Down
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM41 Torment
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM56 Fling
TM59 Brutal Swing
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM63 Embargo
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM77 Psych Up
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM85 Dream Eater
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Swagger
TM100 Confide

Transfer Moves Only

Ancient Power (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Captivate (Gen 4 TM78)
Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Power-Up Punch (Gen 6 TM98)
Retaliate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM67)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43 / ORAS TM94)
Smack Down (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM23)
Strength (Gen 4 / Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM04)
Sucker Punch (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Telekinesis (Gen 5 TM19)
Vacuum Wave (Gen 4 Tutor Move)

Things to note:

You're allowed to suggest replacement for level up slots as long as they are highlighted blue. Don't suggest new moves yet!

None of the cut moves Revenankh knows (the red ones) are competitively viable for Revenankh. This is good news for our favorite mummy!

Unfortunately, Revenankh has a ton of blue moves for us to examine as a result of it's extensive past gen learnset. These range from the competitively useful, such as Sucker Punch and Knock Off, to the flavorful, such as Spite, Focus Punch, and Pain Split.

There is nothing in Revenankh's Egg move list that we need to discuss.

Discussion questions:

1. Of the blue highlighted moves, do any contribute strongly to Revenankh's flavor or otherwise have a strong synergy with other moves in Revenankh's movepool?

2. Are there blue moves Revenankh should retain to keep in line with trends we see in real Pokemon?

I just want to give one final reminder to keep discussion focused on blue highlighted moves for the moment. Suggesting new moves to replace the gaps in Revenankh's level up list will be done in the second half of this thread.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I suggest adding Pain Split and Knock Off in the Level 1 slot and replace Punishment in the Level 71 slot to Focus Punch.

Hex is a TM now so it can be removed from the egg move list

 

[Emergence]

First off, in the TM list, TM90 should be Substitute, right? The winning movepool submission had the same mistake. I'm assuming Revenankh was meant to have Substitute which is now TR20.

Moves to keep:
Bind can be moved into a Level 1 slot. Most Pokemon that learn Bind learn it at Level 1 or otherwise very early.
EDIT: After looking at the lists of Pokemon that get Bind and Wrap, it seems no Pokemon in gen 8 learns both. While Wrap is already in Revenankh's level up list, Bind would actually make more sense to replace it, as Wrap users have elongated/serpentine bodies, vines, or tentacles, while Bind users include Pokemon more similar to Revenankh like Dusknoir, Throh, and Bewear.
Focus Punch can be moved into the Level 66 or 71 slot or egg moves (Hitmonchan), I'm not sure which is better since Revenankh already has a sizable egg move list but the Pokemon that learn Focus Punch through leveling learn it pretty late too.
Knock Off can be kept, most things learn it early (though Level 1 is a bit too early in my opinion for Revenankh) but Machamp or Ralts line can pass it through breeding as well. I'm leaning toward Knock Off as an egg move.
Pain Split is learned later for most Pokemon, I would put it into the Level 66 or 71 slot. Interestingly, Revenankh's closest cousins, the Yamask lines, lost it so the flavor/trends are iffy for this one. Alternatively, several Amorphous Pokemon learn it so it can be moved to egg moves too.
Spite makes flavor sense but the Yamask lines also don't get it. Still, I would move this into a Level 1 slot as the ones who learn it learn it somewhat early.
Power-Up Punch fits with Drain Punch and Shadow Punch as punching flavor, so it can be moved to egg moves (through Hitmonchan, Lucario, etc.).
Sucker Punch can be kept. It didn't break Revenankh before, and I still don't think it will. It gets Mach Punch and Shadow Sneak which do a bit less damage than Sucker Punch but they won't fail for the same reason Sucker Punch does. This can be an egg move, several Pokemon like Gengar and Dragapult learn it.

Moves to lose:
Dual Chop has seen a dramatic decrease in number of Pokemon that can learn it, with only the Machoke and Haxorus lines learning it, and nothing gets it through breeding. Everything else that could learn it (Bisharp, Gallade, Incineroar, Kommo-o, etc.) lost it so it shouldn't be kept here either.
Ancient Power should not be kept. While it might appear to make flavor sense, the Yamask lines, don't get it. In fact, the only non-legendary Ghost-types that get the move are the Galarian Cursola line and Palossand line. Nothing in the Human-like or Amorphous egg groups get Ancient power either.
Smack Down was lost on a lot of movepools, with no Ghost-types getting it, the only Fighting-type with it is also a Rock-type, and it is noncompetitive and has no flavor reasoning to be kept.
Double Team was kept mainly on fast/speedy -type Pokemon, and Revenankh is anything but, so there's no reason to keep it. Cofagrigus didn't get to keep it either.
Dream Eater was kept on Pokemon that have a way to put others to sleep (Oranguru is the exception here). Revenankh can't put things to sleep either so it shouldn't be kept.
Swagger was kept on Pokemon that have competitive/taunting personalities, which Revenankh doesn't have.
Confide was lost on everything and given only to the Grimmsnarl line. No reason to keep it.
Headbutt can be dropped. I don't see a competitive or flavor reason to keep it, Revenankh doesn't seem to be the headbutting type.
Mud Slap isn't in the movepool of any Human-like or Amorphous Pokemon, Cofagrigus doesn't get it, and it has no competitive or flavor value.

Not Sure:
Rock Smash can be moved to egg moves with similar but admittedly weaker reasoning to Power-Up Punch. I'm ambivalent on this one.
Strength can be moved to egg moves (Machamp) or dropped. Not very many Pokemon can get it anymore though so I'm leaning toward dropping it.
Vacuum Wave has no competitive use, but I can kind of see how it might use the move. The pool of learners has shrunken since gen 4 so I don't know about this one either.

 

[Menshay]

- Bind is redundant with Wrap, it could be safely removed.
- The new TM/TRs should be removed from the egg move pool; this includes Hex
- Shadow Sneak as an egg move is also redundant with the level-up movepool.

 

[Wulfanator]

I think Rev should lose Knock Off similar to Conk. They are both slow bulky fighting types that previously knew the move via tutor. It's not like Rev ever used it on any of its recommended sets. It would sooner use a choice lock, trick set to mess with opponent items than run Knock. Plus, STAB ghost hits everything a SE knock would so it's not like you'd want it for that reason. Slash the trash and drop this pointless utility move.

 

[Deck Knight]

I actually think Revenankh should retain Knock Off as it's bandages act like whips, and Knock Off recieved a ton of distribution last gen to those Pokemon and similar pokemon like Shuckle, Ferroseed/Thorn, and Sizzlipede retain it, replacing Ominous Wind in Egg Moves.

Otherwise I agree with the general consensus of retaining Focus Punch by putting it in the level-up movepool. I would replace Wring Out. SubPunch was one of Rev's original Gen 4 sets, and it was great at it because it could Spinblock behind a sub and pressure common spinners like Starmie with Shadow Sneak.

Although new additions haven't been called for yet, these are supposed to be one week threads and we're approaching the seventh day.

I would replace Punishment with Darkest Lariat. Revenankh has the body build (large, emphasized upper body. Dusknoir even gets it!) of the Pokemon that learn it, and Dark simply overlaps way too much with Ghost for it to see much use. A lariat is also a wrestling move, and Revenankh has grappling as it's general fighting style. It would also learn it by TR, but it makes too much flavor sense not to be a great natural addition.

Other flavor additions:
Body Slam and Body Press are very fitting, and I don't think they cause any competitive issues given Rev already has the best paralysis move in the game and better Fighting STABs to use with Bulk Up.
High Horsepower had pretty wide distribution on bulky Fighting types and is directly inferior to Earthquake unless Grassy Terrain is up.
Mega Punch is simple punch flavor
Reversal makes a ton of Fighting flavor sense and isn't viable by comparison.
Scary Face is extremely common on intimidating Fighting and Ghost Pokemon, and makes perfect sense on our intimidating buff mummy.

I would avoid Close Combat as Revenankh never got it in its generation of creation and I don't think it meshes with Revenankh's general identity or playstyle.

 

[Emergence]

I agree with Deck Knight's flavor additions and Darkest Lariat, except for High Horsepower. Of the three Fighting-type lines that get it, two are working/heavy lifting Pokemon (Machamp, Gurdurr/Conkeldurr) and other is Bewear who is described as having "overwhelming physical strength." Revenankh doesn't appear to be a working Pokemon like Machamp and Conkeldurr. Also, is there a reason why Revenankh was not given Phantom Force (which is now a TR too)?
I should clarify that I think Darkest Lariat should not be a level up move because even in this gen it’s still Incineroar’s level up signature, everything else gets it through TR. And iirc there’s a snek around here who wants to give it Metronome, which I can’t complain about.

 

[Menshay]

I disagree with Darkest Lariat as a level-up move, as in this fashion it is still exclusive to its originator Incineroar.

 

[cbrevan]

Removal discussion has died out and people are discussing additions, so I'm going to summarize the removal discussion and talk about additions.

There were a lot of great suggestions but not a lot of consensus on how to handle some moves, so some more feedback on them would be appreciated alongside the addition discussion. These are primarily Sucker Punch, Power-Up Punch, and Pain Split.

Focus Punch was widely agreed to be retained and will be added to Revenankh's movepool at the end of this thread. Knock Off was also well received to retain and will likewise be added again.

Just about everything else that is blue should be considered dropped either because some good reasoning to drop them were given or they saw no discussion. I also want to highlight that Bind will be dropped, as posters pointed out how it was redundant with Wrap.

Moving on to additions, the two criteria moves have to fit is that they mesh well with Revenankh's and this generation's flavor and that they won't be too competitive on Revenankh. Aside from that, I'd prefer to not approve moves that saw little discussion, so please respond to each other's post, even if it's just to agree.

On the topic of additions, Deck Knight already highlighted some moves we could add, so let's use them as the starting point for addition discussion.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I agree with the move additions that Deck Knight brought up. They all make sense flavour wise. Personally I would like Close Combat but it all depends on the consensus. It already knows Shadow Sneak by level up so having it has an egg move as well is redundant. Regarding the three moves mentioned above (Sucker Punch, Power-Up Punch and Pain Split), those could be just added to Level 1. More Move Reminder moves are never a bad thing. And I suggest adding Phantom Force into the Level 67 slot since it doesn't learn any other Ghost-type moves aside from Shadow Punch.

 

[G-Luke]

Sucker Punch can be placed into Level up moves as quite a few Amorphous egg group members have learnt it via level up.

Pain Split and Power Up Punch both can easily fit into egg moves to replace Attacks like Nasty Plot and Metronome which are being moved to TRs. They are both flavourful and are cool to keep.

 

[cbrevan]

Yo, it's time I close this.

Due to Home, the previous removals discussion has been largely invalidated. Any blue move that was not moved to level up or egg moves will be put into the transfer move list.

As for additions, Body Slam, Body Press, High Horsepower, Mega Punch, Reversal, and Scary Face will all be added to their respective TM/TR lists as these moves had a fair amount of support.

In addition to the above noted changes, Focus Punch will be added to the level up movelist in place of Wring Out, Sucker Punch will be added to the level up movelist in place of Punishment, and Knock Off will be added to the level up movelist in place of Bide.

That just about does it for Revenankh, thanks to everyone who participated. Revenankh's newly updated movepool is included below.

Level Up Movepool

- Wrap
- Knock Off
5 Sand Tomb
9 Shadow Sneak
13 Arm Thrust
18 Mean Look
23 Rock Tomb
26 Glare
29 Shadow Punch
33 Revenge
38 Payback
44 Drain Punch
48 Quick Guard
52 Power Whip
57 Hammer Arm
62 Moonlight
66 Focus Punch
71 Sucker Punch

Egg Moves (Amorphous / Human-like)

Counter (Hitmonchan)
Curse (Gengar)
Destiny Bond (Runerigus)
Force Palm (Lucario)
Mach Punch (Hitmonchan)
Memento (Galarian Weezing)
Mimic (Mr. Mime)

TM List

TM00 Mega Punch
TM04 Ice Punch
TM08 Hyper Beam
TM09 Giga Impact
TM18 Safeguard
TM21 Rest
TM22 Rock Slide
TM24 Snore
TM25 Protect
TM31 Attract
TM32 Sandstorm
TM33 Sunny Day
TM34 Rain Dance
TM38 Will-o-Wisp
TM39 Facade
TM41 Helping Hand
TM42 Revenge
TM43 Brick Break
TM48 Rock Tomb
TM49 Sand Tomb
TM57 Payback
TM59 Fling
TM63 Drain Punch
TM65 Shadow Claw
TM76 Round
TM77 Hex
TM79 Retaliate
TM81 Bulldoze
TM97 Brutal Swing

TR Moves

TR01 Body Slam
TR10 Earthquake
TR14 Metronome
TR20 Substitute
TR21 Reversal
TR26 Endure
TR27 Sleep Talk
TR33 Shadow Ball
TR37 Taunt
TR38 Trick
TR39 Superpower
TR48 Bulk Up
TR64 Focus Blast
TR68 Nasty Plot
TR85 Work Up
TR94 High Horsepower
TR99 Body Press

Transfer Moves

Ancient Power (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Power-Up Punch (Gen 6 TM98)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Smack Down (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM23)
Strength (Gen 4 / Gen 5 / Gen 6 HM04)
Vacuum Wave (Gen 4 Tutor Move)
Bind (Gen 7 Tutor Move)
Dual Chop (Gen 7 Tutor Move)
Pain Split (Gen 7 Tutor Move)
Spite (Gen 7 Tutor Move)
Toxic (Gen 7 TM 06)
Smack Down (Gen 7 TM 23)
Double Team (Gen 7 TM 32)
Torment (Gen 7 TM 41)
Psych Up (Gen 7 TM 77)
Dream Eater (Gen 7 TM 85)
Swagger (Gen 7 TM 90)
Confide (Gen 7 TM 100)

 

[Birkal]

1 - Wrap
1 - Knock Off
5 - Sand Tomb
9 - Shadow Sneak
13 - Arm Thrust
18 - Mean Look
23 - Rock Tomb
26 - Glare
29 - Shadow Punch
33 - Revenge
38 - Payback
44 - Drain Punch
48 - Quick Guard
52 - Power Whip
57 - Hammer Arm
62 - Moonlight
66 - Focus Punch
71 - Sucker Punch
Egg - Counter
Egg - Curse
Egg - Destiny Bond
Egg - Force Palm
Egg - Mach Punch
Egg - Memento
Egg - Mimic
TM/TR -  Mega Punch
TM/TR -  Ice Punch
TM/TR -  Hyper Beam
TM/TR -  Giga Impact
TM/TR -  Safeguard
TM/TR -  Rest
TM/TR -  Rock Slide
TM/TR -  Snore
TM/TR -  Protect
TM/TR -  Attract
TM/TR -  Sandstorm
TM/TR -  Sunny Day
TM/TR -  Rain Dance
TM/TR -  Will-o-Wisp
TM/TR -  Facade
TM/TR -  Helping Hand
TM/TR -  Revenge
TM/TR -  Brick Break
TM/TR -  Rock Tomb
TM/TR -  Sand Tomb
TM/TR -  Payback
TM/TR -  Fling
TM/TR -  Drain Punch
TM/TR -  Shadow Claw
TM/TR -  Round
TM/TR -  Hex
TM/TR -  Retaliate
TM/TR -  Bulldoze
TM/TR -  Brutal Swing
TM/TR -  Body Slam
TM/TR -  Earthquake
TM/TR -  Metronome
TM/TR -  Substitute
TM/TR -  Reversal
TM/TR -  Endure
TM/TR -  Sleep Talk
TM/TR -  Shadow Ball
TM/TR -  Taunt
TM/TR -  Trick
TM/TR -  Superpower
TM/TR -  Bulk Up
TM/TR -  Focus Blast
TM/TR -  Nasty Plot
TM/TR -  Work Up
TM/TR -  High Horsepower
TM/TR -  Body Press
TM/TR - Ancient Power
TM/TR - Headbutt
TM/TR - Mud-Slap
TM/TR - Power-Up Punch
TM/TR - Rock Smash
TM/TR - Smack Down
TM/TR - Strength
TM/TR - Vacuum Wave
TM/TR - Bind
TM/TR - Dual Chop
TM/TR - Pain Split
TM/TR - Spite
TM/TR - Toxic
TM/TR - Smack Down
TM/TR - Double Team
TM/TR - Torment
TM/TR - Psych Up
TM/TR - Dream Eater
TM/TR - Swagger
TM/TR - Confide