Gen 8 Friendship based Toxic Spam + Hazard Stack Sand Stall (The more friends the better)

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
Hello whoever is looking at this thread and thank you for joining me today, i have posted other RMTs before but this is gonna be the first one that its gonna be decorated with aestetic and stuff, so grab a hot cocoa, and lets have some fun

1. Origins of the team
I wanted to make a hail team, but with no actorzolt, because he is UGLY, and after failing in trying to make offense, i decided to spin all the way around and make it stall, and honestly, turned out to be pretty fun, the idea its to spam chip damage via toxic and hail, and theres not a lot of mons who can take hail constantly, so you can easily speed up the proccess. so lets see the team

2. The team

:Ninetales-Alola:
Ninetales-Alola @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Heal Bell
- Freeze-Dry
- Moonblast
So first of all, our weather setter, Ninetales, I went with the standard smogon set because after consideration, the speed lets me outspeed BURDEN Hawlucha, Specs Blacephalon and most importantly Garchomp, Heavy Duty Boots are because its gonna come in constantly, and since im not in a rush, i can just keep making chips happen. another cool thing its has is Heal Bell, and im gonna be real, I havent used it ONCE, and although status free pokemon are good pokemon, I could see people making use of other tools she has, like Hex, protect and Disable, all of these could help in the prediction, block and damage effort.

:toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 200 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Haze
- Gunk Shot
So one thing you might be thinking is "wow man, cool team, but doesnt Clefable just roll over it since magic guard lets her from taking chip damage, the literal wincon you have?" and yeah, your right, but heres the thing, a normal pex set cant do shit against clef, so theres nothing to be afraid of, scald wars and knock off are laughable and haze its just annoying, but Soft boil just deals with it, so Clefs are lured into my pex, enter gunk shot who lets me jumpscare clef with a fucking trash can AND
Pex vs clef
and Gunk shot also lets me go to war with anything that thinks that pex its free, unless its a steel type but yeah, the rest its literally P E X

:Heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt
So next up its probably the most important mon on the team, its literally the standard set, but man, i wasnt too sold on Magma Storm first and though that Lava Plume would be better, but the amount of flexibility this move gives its so fascinating, since its the standard heatran set, instead of explaing what he does, im gonna explain some things you need to care about, heatran its sometimes the only answer you have against some treats (mainly, blacephalon) and even tho hail is offset with leftovers, SR and knockoff can start snowballing into self destruction, i have some answers to this, mainly a mon youll see later, but theres an argument of putting Safety Googles and Heavy duty Boots on this thing, but remember to keep it healthy

:Ditto:
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform
C h o i c e S c a r f D i t t o
set up sweepers bad
bonk them all

:Clefable:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Teleport
- Stealth Rock

- Moonblast

Next on the list is my own Clef, a nice callback to the Wishport meta, oh boy do you guys remember that, time flies man, anyways, i decided to mirror the stats at the normal set because i want 2 walls of each type, and clef can do anything really, Clef is also equiped with Wish and port in the attempt to keep heatran healthy, it also helps alot with everyone in the team not named pex

:Glis-wait, what do you mean gliscor is not in this gen?
:Landorus-Therian:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Knock Off
Last mon its Walmart Gliscor, so... i have a story to tell, the first tryout of the team had a blissey, and that means i forgot to put a deffoger, and the opponest just so happen to be a Hazard Stack Balance, after that i decided to go with Tornadus therian to have the nice regen core going, and then got wiped by a Regieleki, and so i realized i need a ground type, who has a ground type AND defog? Lando T of course your seeing him, i decided to put Safety googles because hail is more dangerous than rocks in this case. Toxic on lando and SR on Clef and basically changeable, i have slots to spare for most of the mons here, I decided to go with rocks on Clef since ive seen to land them more consistently with Clef and lando, but thats just my opinion. Honestly, yeah Gliscor could help more on this team but hey, you have to work with things at hand

3. So with the team in hand, lets see the instuction manual:
Most of the time, you wanna lead with either Lando, Clef or Ninetales, the 3 together can cover almost any lead that i can think of
after setting first glance dominance, use Heatran and Pex to devide and conquer whatever comes to you
Always use the safiest way possible to make Ditto enter the field
Dont be afraid of the hail damage your getting, you can heal it off with Clef
wait untill turn 999 to win the match

4. Counters:
So you might wanna trow yourself into the wild expecting to get into godlike ladder, hahaha, NO, heres a list of things you need to keep an eye one
Steel types in general since they resist toxic, but specially :Melmetal: who can just BONK your team into oblivion
:Blacephalon: because theres never enough answers to this little shit who keeps giving me nightmares, as long as Heatran is alive, you SHOULD be okay
:Kartana: maybe its because im bad at the game but kart can be specially dangerous since normally has a move to counter himself
:Tyranitar: :Pelipper: :Torkoal: Since your a weather team, you will be getting into weather wars, who would have though, Ninetales has a bad matchup against the Ttar and Torkoal, Pelipper comes down to how much bulk he has but dont count of him being an easy pick, Torkoal can be disposed of with pex and lando, Ttar should go down with Clef and as for Peli, youll have to play around him, but his teammates are easier pickings than him, so go for that
:Slowking-Galar: is not a counter to the team per se, but the matchup its awkward, scout him first for the possible coverage he has, take him out safely with Heatran or Lando when you know its safe
:Alakazam: also has Magic Guard and shits on Pex, but with paper thin defenses and FOCUS MISS, you can take him out with Clef or Heatran if you feel like disrespecting him

5. Paste and conclussion:

https://pokepast.es/f2dfe8b0effba3a4
:Ninetales-Alola: :toxapex: :Heatran: :Ditto: :Clefable: :Landorus-Therian:
Its a fun team to wait for the new game, and I really hope you like the team, thank you for staying with me and reading this, have a nice day

So, im gonna be real, idk what to say, it all started as a hail stall team, but now its a hazard sand stack stall (try saying that 3 times fast) and i need a new aestethic, but since this thread is getting some traction and some nice people here that want to help me, i decided that we are now going with friendship, and before we get to the team shoutout to M24 and AndViet and I hope more people come to the thread (this also gives me an idea for the future)

1. the team:

:Hippowdon:
Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Toxic/Whirlwind
Female Hippo is best Hippo, so the first mon in the team is a Hippowdown by M24, it replaces my alolan ninetales as the weather setter, and can be used as a bulky weather setter, Stealth Rocker, can spam toxic or whirlwind to troll, and can actually take some big special attacks like a fucking champ, look at him go, since its sand instead of hail, now you have a wider pool of usable mons

:Heatran:
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Taunt
Second in this team, its the only mon that hasnt been changed at all, standard Spedef heatran, this mon was the most important piece of my hail stall team, and its one of the most important pieces of this team aswell, AndViet says Heatran alone can trap Magic Guard Clef (a mon that could very easily just roll over the team since it naturally counters these teams) by first magma storming her, and taunt after that, so now has to brawl with tran and then you just win. I used to have Gunk Shot Pex, its a fun tech that I firmly belive this could have actual use, but im rambling at this point, KEEP HEATRAN ALIVE, because if I see another Blacephalon I swear to god im gonna-- (also fun fact: I survived a Stab Shell Smash boosted Hydro Pump from Cloyster and ended up at 8%, but survived and 1 shot him with a magma storm, thats how bulky this set is holy shit)

:Skarmory:
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Roost
- Body Press
- Whirlwind
next up is Skarmory by M24, as you can see in his comment, his reasoning was "Since now we have a ground type, we dont need walmart gliscor" it also serves as a spike stacker to really put some preasure on the backfoot, Whirlwind to offensevly annoy the mon in front of you and its a great check for Weavile and any Chomp not running fire moves (Quick not: I haven't seen many Weaviles like at all, people say its the most dangerous mon in the tier tho, low tier things i suppose)

:Clefable:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy
We are now looking at Clefable! the original team also had a Clef but with a different set and spread, this Clef was suggested by M24, Aromatherapy maintains the porpuse of Heal Bell Ninetales, while also having Knock Off for support and self healing with soft boiled, my original Clef had Wishport that could work but it seems to be that theres better mons for the job (man, it seems that i havent been on this meta like at all)

:Gastrodon-East: :Gastrodon:
Gastrodon-East @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Clear Smog
AndViet looked at my struggle to keep something alive against Volcanion, and decided to replace my Gunk Shot Pex with a Gastrodon, with Clear Smog so it serves as a Haze Pex, Storm Drain to shit on rain teams that wanna rain on your parade and a special spread, so you can now counter Volcarona, Volcanion, Magnezone, I think Zeraora just cries with this, and most importanly, has a chance against Nidoking (who i didnt face on none of my experiments with both my team and M24´s version so i didnt account for)

:Excadrill:
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Swords Dance
Last but not least is an Excadrill, suggested by AndViet, that replaces M24´s Aegishlash and 1LDK´s Ditto, M24 version of the team did not had a Hazard Remover (I understand, I also forgot to put one on the first version of my team lmao) it serves as optional speed control and a good addition to sand since with iron Head and Sand Rush, you can outspeed Lele and bonk her, I dont know if theres a current debate beetween having speed control on a stall team, i honestly dont know what to think about it, i naturally liked it since it lets you emergency check stuff, but more speed eve´s means less eve´s into bulk, so theres that


2. Instructions of the team:
With the team now on full display, what you wanna do most of the time is lead Hippo, you can also lead Skarm, Heatran or Gastro if you see an especific oppener, try to get hazards on spam toxic and knock off with the team and be aware of mons with stallbreaking capabilitys, keep heatran healthy, im literally beggin ya on this one

3. Counters:
:Rillaboom: i dont need to try out the team to see that Boom can solo drill, hippo and gastro, Heatran and Skarm laughs at CB boom but the moment he grabs a SD your entire team is in trouble (belive me, i calc)
Since your a Weather team you will need a plan to handle :Torkoal: :Tyranitar: :Pelipper: and :Ninetales-Alola: Gastro can Solo Torkoal and almost anyone on the team can naturally deal with Ttar in some way, Ninetales can be hard but gets naturally countered by Heatran and its SR weak so you can outlast her. you dont have a good game plan against peli tho, he cant touch gastro but you cant touch him either, get his teammates first, those are gonna be easier to pick
:Alakazam: just like Clef, Alakazam also has magic guard and unlike clef, has FOCUS MISS to hit Heatran, take him out with gastro or hippo, pray your not facing some bullshit like Energy Ball zam, that would be insanely funny if you ask me
:Kartana: The moment Skarm dies he just goes home, Skarm can 2 shot him with body press, but he is the only stopgap to him

4. Clonclusion and new pokepaste:

https://pokepast.es/4b954d3f47c70eb2
So it was a wild ride, i´ve spent an hour just remaking this thread, thank everyone who is watching this thread for taking your time and I hope many more people can see this thread and contribute, the more the people talk, the stronger the team gets, also, if some Smogon God looks at this team and thinks it should be published elsewhere, just for the record, i dont deserve any recognition this team gets in that case, let real pros take the W, and yeah, I think thats it, have a good day
 
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Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
Alright, I'm going to say this in the best way possible.

I don't think hail is the way to go here, Alolan Ninetales's defensive profile is too weak to meaningfully fit on a stall team, your only use of it here would be to revenge kill/outspeed Landorus and Garchomp as well as setting up hail.

If you'd like to achieve a similar playstyle (weather + chip), I'd suggest pivoting over to sand stall. Hippowdon specifically has much better defensive utility while also being able to use hazards.
So here are the changes I would suggest, turning it from a hail toxic spam team, to a sand hazard stack team:

Major Changes:

:ninetales-alola: -> :Hippowdon:

:swsh/hippowdon:
Hippowdon @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty-Boots
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Toxic / Whirlwind

Hippowdon is one of the main backbones of the team, great defensive profile and is going to be one of your main enablers of chip damage. Being able to run sand over hail also means that we can build the team to have a lot more sand immunities instead of having to rely on leftovers / safety goggles to counteract hail chip.

:landorus-therian: -> :skarmory:

:swsh/skarmory:
Skarmory @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Roost
- Body Press
- Whirlwind

Now that we have two ground types, removing Landorus-Therian was the next step, Skarmory acts as a great physically defensive pokemon that can also stack spikes and act as a phazer for a lot of physical boosting mons. In particular it's a great check for Weavile and most Garchomp sets.

:ditto: -> :aegislash:

:swsh/aegislash:
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- King's Shield
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic

This was one of the last changes I made, where I noticed the team was struggling a lot with future sight and Tapu lele, I decided to use a bulky toxic Aegislash, which keeps somewhat of a similar identity to the initial team by using toxic for chip, while also scaring out slowtwins after they've used future sight.
Ditto in general feels like a slot meant to save you in case your defense fails, which ideally you won't want to happen using a stall team. I believe Aegislash generally accomplishes more for you in this instance.

Minor Changes:
:swsh/toxapex:
Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Atk / 204 SpD (Converted Defense to Spdef)
Careful Nature
- Scald -> Knock Off
- Recover
- Haze
- Gunk Shot

Honestly I like the Gunk Shot tech, this team can also struggle somewhat with breaking Clefable so it's a cool option to break it down.
I decided to move to a specially defensive set, since I believe it'll generally be more useful, being able to take hits better from setup clefable, blacephalon and Dragapult. I slotted knock off over scald since I believe it'll generally be more useful, taking off boots and other useful items means your hazards will deal even more in the long term.

:swsh/clefable:
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Soft-Boiled
- Aromatherapy

I changed the clefable to this bulky spread with aromatherapy, Wish isn't as good as it used to be, and while it can definitely work, this kind of moveset is usually better on a clefable. Aromatherapy can cure status for your team, usually allowing Hippowdon to toxic another ground type for free (against hippo v lando for example), while knock off generally acts as support.



Team link: https://pokepast.es/7e388cde8df85129

 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
After some more testing, it's a lot more worth to run Poison Jab > Gunk Shot on toxapex, it has a lot more pp (32 vs 8) and still 3hko's standard clefable.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
I don't think hail is the way to go here
Its kinda sad because I wanted something different, because i really wanted to make a hail team, but different just for the sake of being different is not always good, so yeah (and also my whole winter aestetic is gone because we are now in egypt, and i dont have camerupts to sell)
with that said, gigachad comes in and takes his time to put up an actual cool team, right now i dont have that much time to test it, but man, thanks a lot for taking your time, your the man. to give you an idea of me trying to make this work, i have a failed offensive hail team
https://pokepast.es/fcef4480612b3c90
after that i gave up and tried stall hail, and i won some battles so I got some hope

Poison Jab > Gunk Shot on toxapex
I honestly forgot Poison Jab was a move, I only saw Gunk shot´s big damage and high toxic rate and neuron activaton
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
So ive been playing with the team and this team its a fucking human repeler, ive had 3 people quitting the match in a row
with that being said, i have a question
how do you deal with Volcanion
i keep losing mons to this shit, and i dont know what to throw at him, and once again, thanks for the team
 

Ehmcee

A Spoopy Ghost
is a Pre-Contributor
So ive been playing with the team and this team its a fucking human repeler, ive had 3 people quitting the match in a row
with that being said, i have a question
how do you deal with Volcanion
i keep losing mons to this shit, and i dont know what to throw at him, and once again, thanks for the team
Volcanion can be tricky, usually pex should be your switchin so in Volcanion matchups it's a good idea to manage it's HP well.
Against Specs Sets, you should only take a lot of damage from earth power, and in that case after a toxapex switchin you can double into Skarmory.
Against Boots sets, you should be able to beat it 1v1, and if you're able to knock it's boots, it will start taking damage from rocks.
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Top Tutoris a Top Team Rateris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
RMT Leader
So ive been playing with the team and this team its a fucking human repeler, ive had 3 people quitting the match in a row
with that being said, i have a question
how do you deal with Volcanion
i keep losing mons to this shit, and i dont know what to throw at him, and once again, thanks for the team
Hey cool team, I would say if you're using M24's suggestions please update the team accordingly so you can continue to get rates / recommendations.

Heatran with the current set will take care of Clefable so the idea of having Gunk shot I don't think is needed, currently EV'd Heatran walls most Clefable variants as soon as you hit Magma Storm and taunt.

M24's variant of the team (If this is the current team): I would say that if Volcanion is giving issues especially a Choice Specs variant I think a decent replacement for Toxapex would be Gastrodon with Storm Drain, it'll provide similar coverage and recovery and with Haze you can just go with Clear Smog. Also a threat that I see is Nidoking, there is no stop for it on this team, it outspeeds everything and if it has Sludge Wave / Earth Power / Flamethrower (Which are all common) Hippo is the only thing that could switch in and at that point you're taking risk especially with Heavy Duty boots and no leftovers, if it has any chip damage it can be a quick game.
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 181-214 (43 - 50.9%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Clefable: 406-478 (103 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 204+ SpD Toxapex: 242-283 (79.6 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I won't calc the other Pokemon because they stand zero chance against Nidoking

1668349559913.png

Gastrodon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Clear Smog

Lastly I would say sometimes in stall teams (not always needed) there should be some sort of speed check or a Pokémon with unaware which currently this team has neither, I would say depending on how you like Aegislash I feel like it be better to replace it with Excadrill to provide a speed check and to also have a Pokémon to clear entry hazard which this team (M24's build) currently does not have which in my opinion is a non-negotiable on a stall team. It also will be able to bother Tapu Lele since Focus Blast is the only move Lele can use to hit it and if you're predicting correctly you can easily beat it.

1668350243116.png

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic / Swords Dance

With the current EV, it still OHKOs Tapu Lele with Iron Head. You can go with a more offensive set and the only thing you would be dumping is the Special Defense EVs into attack. I would say if you want a potential sweeper on this team Swords Dance is the way to go since there's a two Pokémon on this team already that have Toxic (But your choice).

Good luck with the team, and I hope my suggestions are helpful.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
Hey cool team, I would say if you're using M24's suggestions please update the team accordingly so you can continue to get rates / recommendations.
With this you mean edit the whole thread to showcase this new team right?
Also, i havent tried your recomendations yet, ill try them later, but thanks for checking the thread, its appreciated :D
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Top Tutoris a Top Team Rateris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
RMT Leader
With this you mean edit the whole thread to showcase this new team right?
Also, i havent tried your recomendations yet, ill try them later, but thanks for checking the thread, its appreciated :D
Yes to showcase this new team :), and also no problem!
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
stall enjoyers rise up, HO lovers keep malding

anyways nice team, I would recommend some changes but AndViet and M24 already did that :blobastonished:
You can suggest something for SD Boom? I also faced a Urshifu Rapid Strike who wasnt choice locked so i lost hard, i was planning on something like Brave Bird Skarmory and dropping Whirlwind but idk man, come on, I know you wanna help, in fact, helping actually makes the team better because its frienship based, so you have no option :blobnom:
 
You can suggest something for SD Boom? I also faced a Urshifu Rapid Strike who wasnt choice locked so i lost hard, i was planning on something like Brave Bird Skarmory and dropping Whirlwind but idk man, come on, I know you wanna help, in fact, helping actually makes the team better because its frienship based, so you have no option :blobnom:
since I have no other choice :blobnom:

you can forgo whirl wind on skarm for iron defense, which while it does remove of the hazard stack chip it would allow you to better deal with those threats, while hitting back hard with bodypress in the process

(it is preference though you can run either move, I do however think iron defense would be better for the team)
 
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