Lower Tiers DPP UU Discussion Hub

esche

Frust kommt auf, denn der Bus kommt nicht
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Introducing Fix My Team! :smogthink:

This exercise is supposed to mirror team rating and hopes to help you practice identifying problem areas when building and improve your overall understanding of what can and can't feasibly be done in DPP UU. In a sense, it helps you giving advice to others! I ask you to do this by making changes to an import featuring a more or less structurally sound team that will be provided by yours truly. You may edit the team as much as you like as long as you elaborate on why you made the changes you propose. However, keep in mind that you should only make necessary changes - ideally, while keeping the original idea of the team intact. Lastly, even if you can't come up with any immediate fixes, feel free to point out flaws with the team regardless, so that others may use these comments as pointers when they ultimately propose changes. I'm open to have this task tackled individually or as a community effort!

Also, if you have a team that you would like to see featured in either this or What's My Last? shoot me a DM with the import on Discord (esche#7678).

Without further ado, here is the import:

:mismagius: :milotic: :steelix: :leafeon: :blaziken: :weezing:
https://pokepast.es/0c1a711bca38afeb

Weezing + Steelix are an underappreciated duo that has a little more durability than standard SR Registeel on these types of slightly offensively oriented balances because they're more resilient to being removed by Dugtrio (or outright immune to in Weezing's case). Registeel often doubles as a team's Venusaur/Grass and Flying/Normal check and while by splitting this role compression up into two roles you may lose some flexibility in the last slots, you also gain more reliable answers into the common team archetype of Flying/Normal type+ Dugtrio + Venusaur/other Grass. Milotic felt necessary in the next slot given the duo's susceptibility to fire while SD Leafeon + Choice Scarf Blaziken complete the FWG core and offer breaking power as well as speed control. Lastly, since the team was lacking hazard control but couldn't feasibly fit a spinner, I decided to at least limit hazard leads by virtue of making use of the best anti-lead available, Mismagius. Since the team's only dedicated breaker at this point was Leafeon, Mismagius features a more offensively inclined Life Orb set with Taunt + Pain Split to wear down the opposition.

I look forward to your replies! :blobwizard:
Ok so, I realized that perhaps this wasn't the best team to start this exercise with since it's admittedly already pretty developed. I do, however, believe that it has some noticeable flaws that would make me reconsider using it. You can find some pointers below as to what I was looking for here. Also, I will provide you with another team that features more apparent issues. Hopefully, we can get a conversation going this time around!

Issues!
- CM Clefable (especially FlameKnot)
- leading a Ghost vulnerable to Pursuit and having a rocker that loses to the most common hazard removal options will often leave you behind in terms of hazard wars
- RestTalk Weezing can be quite underwhelming since it's specific role make it a little impracticle
- lack of a way to force progress against Registeel for Leafeon (Choice Scarf Blaziken realistically won't ever break cores ft. Registeel)
- in general, the team seems very much oriented towards the match-up against offense

Fixes?
- Knock Off + Heal Bell Leafeon and Taunt + Pain Split Weezing --> pressure fat better at the cost of some consistency into Venusaur
- fit WoW (and perhaps P-Gem) on Mismagius --> better match-up against Pursuit users; increased likelihood of spinblocking later on
- put Haze>Toxic on Milotic and Toxic>Roar on Steelix --> better Clefable match-up and ability to pressure the spinners without having to risk Mismagius
- perhaps condense Leafeon and Weezing into SpDef Venusaur --> additional slot to work with

:blobthinking:


:jynx: :venusaur: :regirock: :blastoise: :moltres: :absol:
https://pokepast.es/3ba043d29c45a66d

This is a team from when I was just starting out in DPP UU. It features lead Jynx and Swords Dance Absol. Blastoise, Moltres and Venusaur form a FWG core while Regirock takes on the role of SR setter. Chople Berry was chosen to lure Fighting types for Absol. The justification for double Sleep move was that once Jynx would pick up a "kill" with Lovely Kiss, it would usually promptly get sacrificed and due to the offensive pace that this team is supposed to operate under, the target Jynx had kissed good night would likely be the first choice to get sacrificed as well. This in turn would open up another opportunity to put something to bed with Venusaur, essentially netting a "double kill". You can make up your own mind about how realistic this scenario really is to occur, but at the time it made total sense to me.
Have fun taking this team apart! :blobwizard:
 

skrimps

cry bozo
is a Top Artist Alumnus
:jynx: :venusaur: :regirock: :blastoise: :moltres: :absol:
https://pokepast.es/3ba043d29c45a66d

This is a team from when I was just starting out in DPP UU. It features lead Jynx and Swords Dance Absol. Blastoise, Moltres and Venusaur form a FWG core while Regirock takes on the role of SR setter. Chople Berry was chosen to lure Fighting types for Absol. The justification for double Sleep move was that once Jynx would pick up a "kill" with Lovely Kiss, it would usually promptly get sacrificed and due to the offensive pace that this team is supposed to operate under, the target Jynx had kissed good night would likely be the first choice to get sacrificed as well. This in turn would open up another opportunity to put something to bed with Venusaur, essentially netting a "double kill". You can make up your own mind about how realistic this scenario really is to occur, but at the time it made total sense to me.
Have fun taking this team apart! :blobwizard:
I'm fairly new to DPP UU but I wanted to give this a shot.

The goal was to maintain as much of the original team as possible, especially Jynx + Absol. I usually lean towards leads that can function throughout the entire match if needed, so Jynx was definitely the challenge here -- I was inclined to replace it with a Choice Scarf user so that a bulkier Blastoise could focus exclusively on spinning for Specs Moltres. However, in the end, I kept all six original members and I think it turned out well.

https://pokepast.es/58e76866fd556467
1658713717304.png
I changed Nasty Plot --> Taunt. With Scarf Blastoise as the only means of navigating Stealth Rock, it's likely that Moltres will have some issues. Taunt lets Jynx stop switch-ins like Registeel, Clefable, or Uxie from freely setting up Stealth Rock or even setting up Curse / Calm Mind.
1658713661454.png
I changed Sleep Powder --> Knock Off. I did like the thought process behind double Sleep moves, but I think Knock Off facilitates an Absol or Blastoise end-game better. Removing Leftovers can soften up Pokemon that otherwise check SD Absol, or even lessen the threat from Pokemon that the team otherwise struggles with (ex. Life Orb on Toxicroak).
1658713730601.png
Untouched. The EV spread seemed too specific to tinker with, and the idea of baiting Hitmontop is cool.
1658713747391.png
I bumped the Speed EVs up one notch to compensate for the inclusion of HP Psychic -- as it stands, Scarf Blastoise would only tie with +1 max Neutral Base 80s like Blaziken or Venusaur. I've also gone back and forth between HP Psychic vs Toxic -- the former is obviously great for Toxicroak but the latter would help soften bulky Water-types switching into Blastoise, ideally helping Absol in the late game.
1658713758811.png
I changed this set from Choice Specs --> Leftovers + Roost. Even with Taunt on Jynx to support Blastoise's Rapid Spin efforts, the team's hazard control seemed inconsistent. A bulkier Moltres can compensate for this and it frees Venusaur from being the primary switch into Grass-types, letting Venusaur shore up the team's susceptibility to Water-types. It also helps check offensive Fighting-types that may not be as comfortable switching into Regirock as Hitmontop (ex. Toxicroak again). I also changed U-Turn --> Hidden Power Grass to help with the team's weakness to Rhyperior and Omastar. The only reason for Max Speed is to tie other Moltres and Kangaskhan, so I opted for just enough to outpace Hitmonlee and the rest is invested into HP.
1658713786923.png
The only change I made here is similar to Moltres -- I kept enough Speed EVs to outpace max Neutral Base 70s and moved the rest to HP.
 
Last edited:
I've been dragging my feet on this for a while, but i finally have a (slightly) revised version of the team ready to submit for the Fix My Team activity.
https://pokepast.es/5aebafa8230bdf8e
:dp/jynx: :dp/venusaur: :dp/regirock: :dp/moltres: :dp/blastoise: :dp/absol:

I feel the 6 itself is overall solid, but some sets on them definitely could be improved.

I like skrimp's idea of taunt on jynx a lot so that blastoise isn't overrelied on to spin. Having multiple options of preventing stealth rock from going up is really nice, and as he said it can even be used to stop stuff from setting up, such as cm uxie and clefable.

I changed venusaur's set to a lefties set with more bulk investment to make it a better switch in to grass types. I also made it modest to make up for losing the extra power of life orb. The spread allows venu to take 2 defensive milo ice beams after sr, and to outspeed jolly torterra (its not very common but i have seen it before). I gave it leech seed over sleep powder (Shout out to my friend Donny P.) to make it better able to pressure registeel and to give it another form of healing. Leech seed wearing stuff down also is great for facilitating a scarf blastoise clean up late game or an Absol sweep.

Regirock I kept mostly unchanged due to its ev spread looking specific and the set being overall solid. However, I added a small amount of speed to outrun 4 spe donphan and boom on it to block rapid spin.

Specs Moltres is definitely a good set but I prefer it more in the lead slot personally. However, the 6 itself is overall solid and jynx isn't really feasible outside the lead slot (at least not here), and I also wanted it to be less reliant on blastoise spinning. I went with 3 attacks life orb roost here, a personal favorite set of mine. I still wanted a power boost with moltres, and life orb gives it that power boost on all 3 of its moves while also enabling it to run roost for recovery. I like skrimp's idea of running lefties on it, but with black sludge on venu here i figured it could afford to run lo since venu would be my main grass switch. LO also can really make the differences with some calcs, such as with hp grass against rhyp.

I'm admittingly not a fan of scarf blastoise, but the speed control is nice here and its not a bad set. I like the idea of hp psychic on it to ko toxicroak. I added water spout over hydro pump since the extra accuracy is appreciated to make it more reliable at cleaning late game. Hydro pump is overall a fine choice though.

Lastly, Absol was the one pokemon i kept completely and utterly unchanged. No ev changes. no set changes, nothing.


Overall I feel this version of the team is quite solid, and while it isn't vastly different, I feel the changes have improve it.


Keep it up with the awesome activities Esche :D <3
 
https://pokepast.es/5e39159887286ee5

Sooo.... what are the changes...

to help keep rocks off i made jynx taunt instead of nasty plot... this helps vs uxie or lum uxie to be more specific. taunt helps against other leads or stuff such as other rockers who want to take advantage of jynx to setup rocks and get momentum of it like registeel, regirock, omastar, etc. Venu is the scarfer as removing power of moltres and moving it to blastoise allows holes to be broken and venu can throw of sleep powders. Blastoise is specs because i just believe scarf is just wonky as crap and specs puts more holes into other members of the opposing team. Moltres is LO since choice specs on this team is just invting free switches to a resist such as rhyperior, steelix and registeel on air slash. This also allows it to fit roost which have it more longetivity since it can heal itself back up to not be screwed twice by rocks... yeah that is it...
 

esche

Frust kommt auf, denn der Bus kommt nicht
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
:jynx: :venusaur: :regirock: :blastoise: :moltres: :absol:
https://pokepast.es/3ba043d29c45a66d

This is a team from when I was just starting out in DPP UU. It features lead Jynx and Swords Dance Absol. Blastoise, Moltres and Venusaur form a FWG core while Regirock takes on the role of SR setter. Chople Berry was chosen to lure Fighting types for Absol. The justification for double Sleep move was that once Jynx would pick up a "kill" with Lovely Kiss, it would usually promptly get sacrificed and due to the offensive pace that this team is supposed to operate under, the target Jynx had kissed good night would likely be the first choice to get sacrificed as well. This in turn would open up another opportunity to put something to bed with Venusaur, essentially netting a "double kill". You can make up your own mind about how realistic this scenario really is to occur, but at the time it made total sense to me.
Have fun taking this team apart! :blobwizard:
Time to wrap this up, thanks for participating skrimps, Cubic Skunk & HydreigonTheChild! Let's review some of these edits!

:jynx:
I agree with the general consensus that NP is a moveslot that should be changed in favour of something else. Personally, I don't really care for Taunt much as Uxie is quite likely to U-turn out anyway and I'm content going for Lovely Kiss against the Spikes leads. I found Counter to be quite fun in practice since it can let you run away with a surprise kill in some unfavourable lead scenarios (outside of those even, should you manage to preserve your Focus Sash), and possibly even netting another "kill" with Lovely Kiss afterwards.

:venusaur:
Venusaur definitely needed to be adjusted to not be complete Registeel food. I really enjoy the Leech Seed idea from Cubic Skunk and promptly incorporated that edit into my own overhaul of the team. Another option I was looking into was Roar since I ended up going with a Spikes approach, but I overall deem Leech Seed with some added bulk to be the most apt choice here.

:regirock: --> :omastar:
Regirock is cool, don't let TSR tell you otherwise, but it definitely has its shortcomings and they become glaringly apparent on a team with no Ghost type, the lack of which makes it overreliant on Explosion to spinblock. Granted I do add a Ghost type anyway since the replacement for Regirock is Omastar, which desperately wants a Ghost in the back too, so you could argue there's still a place for Regirock on the new version. However, I much prefer the added element of Spikes on this build and let's not forget Omastar threatens the most used spinner, Donphan, for an OHKO without having to sacrifice itself. A bulkier set with Leftovers + Protect is worth consideration but I found that the pace at which this team operates is much more befitting of Custap Berry + Endure instead. A clutch layer of Spikes can quickly sway the game in your favour.

:moltres: --> :blaziken:
Frankly, midgame Specs Moltres is a terrible idea, as you all correctly identified. Especially on this team, where you rely on Scarf Blastoise to spin. I'm surprised nobody decided to replace it though, please don't be afraid to make changes! Arguably the superior chicken, Blaziken makes an appearance in Moltres' stead. Blaziken + Spikes can quickly spiral out of control for a lot of teams and it being a Fire type that isn't weak to Rocks is actually much appreciated by the team's overall composition. Some added insurance into Clefable never hurts either.

:blastoise: --> :rotom:
With Blaziken filling in for Moltres, the need for a spinner is much less pronounced. With Spikes + SR I opted for the dual status set with Colbur Berry for better insurance against Spinners and Pursuiters alike. Fire resists are a myth anyway and Scarf Blastoise has long become one of my most despised sets so it only makes sense to replace it. WoW and T-Wave have actually proven themselves as invaluable on this team to create set-up opportunities for Absol and have aided in facilitating a sweep many times.

:absol:
Not an edit but moreso a recommendation: Wait for the right moment to reveal this bad boy. He's all the more devastating when you can safely set up a SD and immediately threaten game. And even if Jynx should have an off-day, just keep calm and patiently work towards that absolutely disastrous Absol sweep.

So yea, in conclusion, I do believe this team was in dire need of some changes. I quite like the end result in comparison to the much more sluggish, less focused original version of the team I built two years ago - I tested the edit in a RoA room tour earlier and it performed well. Disclaimer: You do have to be somewhat aggressive with it to make it work but that's just the nature of such offenses in DPP UU to be honest.

:jynx: :venusaur: :omastar: :blaziken: :absol: :rotom:
https://pokepast.es/2c5e855cf34db0eb

-------------------------------------------------------

We will return to Fix My Team, but for now here's another installment of the Teambuilding Competition!

:dp/swellow:
dugtrio banned.png


I would ask you to build around Swellow. Only Swellow? Yes. The catch being that its most coveted partner, Dugtrio, is currently being held up at customs under suspicion of smuggling illegal substances into the country. So unfortunately, you cannot rely on it for this iteration of the Teambuilding Competition. No matter though, as there are a wide variety of partners to choose from. I look forward to your creations. Have fun!
 
https://pokepast.es/de12a4a819aff19e

:dp/mismagius: :dp/venusaur: :dp/rhyperior: :dp/swellow: :dp/primeape: :dp/rotom:

this team is built around overloading most normal and flying resists such as regirock, rhyperior, registeel, steelix, and aggron.

Missy is the lead on this team, With WoW and taunt it can stop most leads and cripple most ghost switch ins (besides clefable), with dbond you can potentially get a favorable trade that allows smth on the team to take advantage of it such as of a houndoom, arcanine, haryiama, uxie, mespirit, etc.

Leech seed venu is the next member of this team, it lures in registeel and can leech seed it to wear it down and force it to take additional chip damage on top of hazards and a potential burn. Venusaur loves to take advantage of the rock type normal resists in that would switch in on swellow such as rhyperior, regirock, omastar, kabutops, etc and can easily use them for turns to fire of leaf storms or spam leech seed to gain additional chip.

Rhyperior is the rocker of the team, and arguably the best abuser of registeel on this team as it is immune to twave, takes minimum damage from toss due to its massive hp pool, shrugges of anything else, and can beat curse sets of it easily. I chose this over regirock, omastar, torterra, or donphan because it compresses both being a good fire resist to have on a team but also being a great stop to moltes thanks to its rock typing which this team otherwise struggles against.

Primeape is the speed control of this team, it is a pokemon that also abuses rocks and steels to no end but also provides a way to pivot mons in such as venu on phys def walls or rotom or missy on sp. def walls who can take advantage of them. I chose this over ken in that it outruns mons such as dd altaria, scarf moltres, scarf houndoom, and Rock polish torterra.

Dual stats colbur rotom is the 2nd ghost on the team, this allows it to cripple pokemon with para and burns to help pokemon such as swellow, venu and primeape to clean late game or potentially even rhyperior if enough of the opposing team is paralyzed. COlbur allows it to paralyze a pursuit pokemon or to live and switch out successfully. This also helps late game against some pokemon such as absol, kanga, or doom late game.

Swellow is the key member of this team and all these pokemon are built around it. it will usually be the last mon sent out and allows the team to go ham on registeel without knowing that swellow is sitting in the back waiting and spam facade over the enemy team. Flame orb is chosen over toxic orb as i do not believe swellow takes hits often and instead the opponent will try to stall it out.
 
not a new team but thought I'd share since it's fun to use:
https://pokepast.es/2254a01b53753f64

I don't remember who modified this or when, but I enjoy using this team which is heavily based around this original RMT I think:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-a-team-uu-rmt.74119/
I think it's more another Heysup Spikes classic, Free Bird: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/team-free-bird-uu-rmt-peaked-3.65978/

Besides Froslass being swapped out for Qwilfish, the PokePaste is identical, right down to the Earthquake ScarfSaur that should've stopped being used after Raikou was banned.

Also, if I were to build around Swellow sans Dugtrio, I would strongly consider Knock Off Venusaur or Leafeon to bait in and ruin Registeel, as well as a Fire-type to switch into Regi that could also bait in and mess up Rhyperior. Spikes would go a long way, too!
 
I've recently been experimenting with screen setters to enable hyper offense in the tier, and I've found an interesting dichotomy- Alakazam's speed versus Uxie's bulk. Both of these Pokemon function rather well to set screens and enable set-up sweepers, but there are huge differences to keep in mind.
Alakazam's speed allows it to set screens with the least interference, as the only threats it faces are a speed tie with Dugtrio which can absolutely one shot and Swellow, who cannot OHKO if Alakazam has speed invest. Alakazam has the capability to also taunt most other leads, giving it extra utility. Finally, it functions mostly as a suicide lead due to its lower bulk, its death giving momentum for the incoming sweeper.
Uxie, on the other hand, has a significantly higher level of bulk than Alakazam allowing it to take more hits as it sets up screens, and can also taunt other setters with the addition of rocks for hazard support. A few issues pop up, however- taunt from other Uxie, Alakazam, and other faster mons shuts down its set-up, and it requires u-turn for momentum, which it can't take much advantage of due to the higher speed it needs to run to effectively function. It can still get the dedicated sweeper in, but there's a bit more risk as compared to letting alakazam die.
So what do y'all think? Defensive Uxie can also work to guarantee screens but I generally prefer the speed, but there's a lot of fun nuance with the interactions.
 

LpZ

capy
is a Tiering Contributor
RUPL Champion
I've recently been experimenting with screen setters to enable hyper offense in the tier, and I've found an interesting dichotomy- Alakazam's speed versus Uxie's bulk. Both of these Pokemon function rather well to set screens and enable set-up sweepers, but there are huge differences to keep in mind.
Alakazam's speed allows it to set screens with the least interference, as the only threats it faces are a speed tie with Dugtrio which can absolutely one shot and Swellow, who cannot OHKO if Alakazam has speed invest. Alakazam has the capability to also taunt most other leads, giving it extra utility. Finally, it functions mostly as a suicide lead due to its lower bulk, its death giving momentum for the incoming sweeper.
Uxie, on the other hand, has a significantly higher level of bulk than Alakazam allowing it to take more hits as it sets up screens, and can also taunt other setters with the addition of rocks for hazard support. A few issues pop up, however- taunt from other Uxie, Alakazam, and other faster mons shuts down its set-up, and it requires u-turn for momentum, which it can't take much advantage of due to the higher speed it needs to run to effectively function. It can still get the dedicated sweeper in, but there's a bit more risk as compared to letting alakazam die.
So what do y'all think? Defensive Uxie can also work to guarantee screens but I generally prefer the speed, but there's a lot of fun nuance with the interactions.
I would argue that it is much easier to play around screens Zam due to the fact that Zam's offensive movepool is way too limited as it needs all of the screens and Taunt so stalling its screens is usually not an incredibly hard task, sure fast Taunt and screens gives it the niche for that but I'd still think that Uxie does it better cuz of the bulk part and U-turn, its true that sometimes you wish Uxie was a bit slower to make better use of U-turn allowing safe setups for teammates but its bulk and Levitate makes it so it is way more likely to come in and set screens up multiple times than Zam.
Also Uxie doesn't learn Taunt but the 4th slot could simply be rocks for some very valuable compression (which is almost always the case) or even something funnier like Memento.
 
I would argue that it is much easier to play around screens Zam due to the fact that Zam's offensive movepool is way too limited as it needs all of the screens and Taunt so stalling its screens is usually not an incredibly hard task, sure fast Taunt and screens gives it the niche for that but I'd still think that Uxie does it better cuz of the bulk part and U-turn, its true that sometimes you wish Uxie was a bit slower to make better use of U-turn allowing safe setups for teammates but its bulk and Levitate makes it so it is way more likely to come in and set screens up multiple times than Zam.
Also Uxie doesn't learn Taunt but the 4th slot could simply be rocks for some very valuable compression (which is almost always the case) or even something funnier like Memento.
oh shit you’re right, I always forget which lake trio gets what haha. You have a really good point there, but I’d argue that it just comes down to preferring a suicide lead versus a bulky screens lead
 
https://pokepast.es/19713ef6859d829f

Opinions?

This is my first attempt at a stall team. Im running a lot of statuses here so i wonder if tspikes is maybe excessive. I haven't had too much trouble with opposing spikes yet but with 4/6 susceptible Im worried about it. But Ive tried slotting claydol and as per usual, spinning isn't so easy to do
 
https://pokepast.es/19713ef6859d829f

Opinions?

This is my first attempt at a stall team. Im running a lot of statuses here so i wonder if tspikes is maybe excessive. I haven't had too much trouble with opposing spikes yet but with 4/6 susceptible Im worried about it. But Ive tried slotting claydol and as per usual, spinning isn't so easy to do
I'm fairly new to the tier, so I'm probably not too qualified to give out advice, but it seems like without a grass move on Venusaur or Ice Beam on Clefable, ground types like CB/Sash Dugtrio and RP Torterra are a major threat to your team, especially if spikes are up. I don't know how you might want to address that, but maybe slotting in a support Claydol over Nidoqueen or even Uxie wouldn't be a bad idea. You could give it a set like Stealth Rock, Ice Beam, Earth Power, and Rapid Spin. Up to you though.
 
I'm fairly new to the tier, so I'm probably not too qualified to give out advice, but it seems like without a grass move on Venusaur or Ice Beam on Clefable, ground types like CB/Sash Dugtrio and RP Torterra are a major threat to your team, especially if spikes are up. I don't know how you might want to address that, but maybe slotting in a support Claydol over Nidoqueen or even Uxie wouldn't be a bad idea. You could give it a set like Stealth Rock, Ice Beam, Earth Power, and Rapid Spin. Up to you though.
Honestly, I have a hard time removing Uxie. I personally think Uxie is best mon in tier, regardless of the team style. I can see replacing nidoqueen with something like claydol for some more insurance against spikes and dugtrio
 

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