Co-written with Seldanna - Click the art for the song!
The initial idea behind this team came up sometime in January 2021; we wanted to build a team with Cresselia, as we both liked her, and being a bulky Spike immune had to have some merit. It was quite unexplored overall; at the time, Cresselia had long fallen out of disuse, and some people even wanted it unranked on the DPP ubers VR! It was quickly decided that we would try to build a stall team, as that was the only structure that could really exploit Cresselia’s strengths. This also obviously led to the weather of choice, sun, due to Cresselia’s weather-dependent recovery.
Next up, the team needed hazards in order to progress, particularly Toxic Spikes, which restricted the choice to very few mons. Forretress offered more than any other option, and the very few upsides Tentacruel would bring - being able to click Toxic Spikes turn 1 in more matchups - wouldn’t prove to be necessary in a team that makes the game last longer than average. Also, at this early point, Forretress could very well both fit the lead role, or be in the back.
From this point, the last three slots could be dedicated to filling the few roles still lacking in the team. Latias is an excellent rain check and is pretty much a staple on Sun teams. Blissey works as a cleric while functioning as an effective “Draco Meteor resist”, and to some extent as a secondary rain check as she is able to switch on most Thunders in the tier. Finally, the team needed a spinblocker, a role mostly restricted to Giratina and Giratina-O in DPP Ubers. The Altered form’s Pressure and superior bulk make it a generally better choice in stall structures. It’s also one of the best phazer in the tier, working nicely here. With these choices, the only good option for a lead was Forretress, which completed the first iteration of the team.
Forretress (F) @ Chesto Berry / Mail
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 248 SpD / 12 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Rest
Forretress is a generally good lead for stall teams, since it can deny hazards from many common Deo-S lead sets while also being able to come back later in the game to spin. Toxic Spikes are the main way to progress through the game, and as such should almost always be prioritized over Spikes. Getting one of each Spikes is generally preferred, and if obtained early, those can be game-winning within the first few turns. The next spikes vary depending on match-ups; a 2nd Toxic Spikes, helping against the likes of CM Mewtwo, Leftovers Darkrai or Blissey, while Spikes Stacking wears down Lefties Jirachi and Dialga. There’s no hard priority, and it’s solely based on your judgement. Chesto Berry makes sure you get your Toxic Spikes in the matchup against non Taunt Darkrai. It is preferred over Lum Berry in case Darkrai opts for Trick turn 1, an option that grew in popularity with the rise of sleep-proof Forretress. Mail is another option that trivializes the matchup against Scarf Deoxys-S offenses, which can be annoying to face if their Dialga doesn’t shuffle Groudon in early. Rest offers longevity in stall match-ups, and can often be cured thanks to Blissey, or Chesto Berry in case it was not already consumed. Not running Explosion might look dangerous at first sight, but the team has the tools to handle most threats you would want to explode on in the first place. As for the spread, 12 Speed EVs are used to outspeed a paralyzed +1 Rayquaza. More information about how common lead matchups should be handled are detailed in a later part of the RMT.
Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
Groudon is another centerpiece of the team, being the SR setter while also checking some big threats like Tyranitar. Given how dependent Cresselia is on sun, winning the weather war against opposing rain or sand teams is extremely important. Lava Plume is chosen as the coverage move to deny entry hazards from Forretress and Skarmory, while also dissuading Giratina-O from switching in recklessly.
This set can be customized a bit; specifically the last slot. We’ve experimented with a lot of options - in fact, our first draft of this team used Rest in order to trivialize the matchup against opposing rain stalls. As it turns out, though, rain stalls are seldom used and are generally mediocre, so we then tried Thunder Wave. While this has good general utility, it would often happen that one would paralyze an incoming Giratina-O, making progress against it a lot slower. Given that we eventually wanted Forretress to be able to spin if possible, it was natural to replace Thunder Wave with Toxic. This also catches several switchins to Groudon that wall the set otherwise, like Latias, Latios, Ho-Oh, and opposing Groudon. Dragon Claw can also be used here to chip Giratina-O more directly and help with the matchup against Calm Mind + Refresh Latias, which otherwise dominates the team (thankfully, it’s very rare).
Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Ice Beam
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight
Cresselia is essential to deal with number of threats, such as Swords Dance or Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Swords Dance Garchomp, offensive Groudon, and Giratina-Origin. The first three are self-explanatory, and standard Giratina-Origin sets have no move combinations that let them 2HKO Cresselia after Stealth Rock. Cresselia has always been in competition with another sun stall staple in Lugia, which plays a similar role defensively. Lugia has some upsides; access to Whirlwind, Roost being more reliable than Morning Sun, and a much better speed tier. However, Lugia suffers from its Stealth Rock weakness, and can be quickly worn down via double switches with Stealth Rock up, even when an opposing team has no good stallbreaker. On the other hand, weakening Cresselia by doubling against her is way more complicated, as she takes only 6.25% from switching in with Stealth Rock up, healing up with lefties, and switching out right away. Cresselia also solves the issues sun stall has with Giratina-O, as it easily survives Draco Meteor into Outrage or Shadow Sneak, unlike Blissey and Lugia.
Hidden Power Fire is used to not be Spikes fodder and has reasonable damage output under sun against a few targets.Thunder Wave is used to cripple the usual switch-ins to Cresselia - usually support Steel-types like Jirachi and Heatran. Toxic is not needed; Cresselia is capable of checking all the important threats it needs to with Ice Beam alone.
The spread used is the standard physically defensive one, which is needed to check Groudon, Garchomp, and Rayquaza. 16 SpD EVs guarantee that Cresselia survives a +2 Fire Blast from Modest Dialga in sun, which is situationally useful in Baton Pass matchups. Most Baton Pass teams use a lead that cannot set hazards on Forretress (think dual hazards Lum Deo-S or Metagross) and can’t fit a spinblocker, so it’s realistic to have Cresselia take this hit from full health.
Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 132 HP / 184 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunder / Grass Knot
- Roost
Latias functions as the principal way of dealing with Rain, and, in tandem with Blissey and Toxic Spikes, essentially prevents every Kyogre from making progress. She’s also the fastest Pokemon on the team, letting her offensively check Garchomp, Palkia, and other base 90 speed mons. As for moves, a Calm Mind set is preferred to give the team a reliable win condition Latias’ checks are worn down enough. The Dragon STAB move of choice here is Dragon Pulse. Draco Meteor’s lower PP can be detrimental in longer games, and the usual relevant calcs reached by DM - such as dealing with Support Dialga after a Calm Mind - aren’t necessary. Although Dragon Pulse also means Latias does not actively punish the switches it forces, the team structure already benefits a lot from Latias forcing a switch to begin with. Thunder generally outclasses Grass Knot as the coverage move, as Thunder greatly improves the rain match-up. Grass Knot only really matters against non-Heatran suns, one of the easiest matchups for the team in general. The given spread ensures that Latias is not 2HKOed by Timid Choice Scarf Kyogre’s Ice Beam after Stealth Rock, while outspeeding Garchomp; one can also use maximum Speed.
Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aromatherapy
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
Blissey is the team’s cleric, notably used to cleanse sleep inflicted by Darkrai and Giratina’s Rest, as well as paralysis. Blissey can also absorb lots of status-inducing moves by herself thanks to Natural Cure, which can help in dealing with Calm Mind + Thunder Wave Kyogre, which is only shakily checked by Latias. Blissey also consistently handles numerous threats alone, like Latios, Calm Mind Lugia and non-Refresh Calm Mind Latias.
Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Roar
As hazards are the primary way the team makes progress, Giratina is mandatory to prevent the likes of Forretress, Kabutops or Tentacruel from spinning. It is also capable of sitting on the majority of Ho-Oh sets - this is quite useful, as Ho-Oh is capable of beating most other sun stalls on its own. Earthquake is preferred over the standard Will-o-Wisp as a way to invert the matchup against Heatran. It should be noted that earlier versions of the team had Giratina carrying Will-o-Wisp for a while, and it generally felt like a underwhelming move due to its shaky accuracy and the fact a lot of mons are typically poisoned by Toxic Spikes on switch-in. Earthquake also gets some acceptable damage in some situations, mainly against support Dialga. Roar can shuffle on hazards, racking up damage fast vs offensive teams even without multiple layers up. It’s also a great move to roll off Sleep Talk as people will generally try to exploit Giratina after it Rested. Having Rest + Pressure can also be the win condition in some precise matchups where making progress is complicated, such as against Clefable. It’s notable that Giratina checks certain threats that Cresselia also handles, such as Lucario and offensive Groudon. This is useful to help conserve Moonlight’s limited PP, and prevent Cresselia from being overwhelmed in general. It can also check stuff Cresselia struggles with under Rain or Sand.
Dialga
While pure specially-based sets are easy to handle with Blissey, mixed or physical Dialga sets can be a major nuisance. Bulk Up Dialga can be forced out with Groudon or phazed with Giratina early on in the match, but the team requires careful positioning in order to avoid being swept by last mon Bulk Up Dialga - Groudon needs to be healthy enough to put +1 Dialga into range of Latias / your own Scarf Dialga. Cresselia can also paralyze mixed Expert Belt or Choice Scarf Dialga variants in a pinch. If you are especially paranoid of the Bulk Up Dialga matchup, you may also choose to run a Careful nature on Groudon with a bit of speed creep. Finally, with Spikes support from Scarf Deo-S or Froslass, specially defensive Roar Dialga can also shuffle team members around and rack up entry hazard damage if it’s lucky enough to not phaze Cresselia or Groudon in.
Kyogre
Kyogre has a lot of different sets, some of which require different lines as a response. The best initial switch-in to scout is Latias, which reliably handles most sets. The main issues it faces against Kyogre are the Thunder Wave + Calm Mind set, and paired trappers (Scizor / Tyranitar). Blissey can help somewhat against the former, especially if Groudon is used to pivot and set up sun. It’s hard to guess at the presence of unrevealed trappers, but it’s usually okay to make a double if Latias took a Surf on the switch, for example. Rest Kyogre is often paired with trappers, as is Manaphy (if it’s been revealed).
Giratina-Origin
Cresselia walls most variants of Giratina-O without much difficulty, even the mixed sets with Outrage that are usually capable of breaking stall teams. The exception is Substitute + Calm Mind Gira-O, which can very easily sweep the team by itself if it gets a free turn. The only real counterplay to this is getting the turn right with Scarf Dialga (when using that version of the team) and not running into a variant with Aura Sphere or Earth Power. Thankfully, this set is quite uncommon.
Darkrai
Darkrai can be a major threat to the team and needs to be played around carefully depending on its set. Choice Scarf Darkrai is forced to Trick early to make progress, and generally Forretress is the best Trick absorber on the team. Lead Darkrai without Choice Scarf or Taunt are easy to deal with, as is Life Orb Darkrai, since it will take hazards and has a very limited number of attacks against Blissey. The most difficult set to deal with is midgame Lum Darkrai, which is typically seen on some HO builds. Against this, one needs to pick the correct sleep fodder; without Life Orb, Groudon and Blissey can both take a boosted hit, though Groudon is better at actually killing Darkrai without too much collateral damage. Mixed Darkrai variants are not too big an issue if Groudon is used to scout the set, but if it catches Blissey or Latias by surprise, another breaker can possibly win.
Tyranitar
The standard Focus Sash / Lum Berry lead Tyranitar is not too much of an issue, as Groudon handles it quite reliably. Trapping variants, however, especially Choice Band Tyranitar, are extremely annoying to deal with, as they can Pursuit Latias or Blissey and allow for a special sweeper to break the team. While it’s difficult to avoid losing Latias to Choice Band Tyranitar when it gets revealed, Toxic Spikes thankfully puts it on a timer. Dragon Dance Tyranitar is extremely rare, and fails to do enough damage to Groudon even after a boost to be threatening to the team.
Mewtwo
Mewtwo is another example of a threat with very diverse coverage that needs to be played around carefully. Life Orb sets are not overly threatening besides the possibility of Self-Destruct; the most threatening sets are actually ‘stalltwo’ and Calm Mind + Recover sets. The surefire way to handle these is by setting two layers of Toxic Spikes with Forretress early on, but it’s often difficult to do this, and the opponent can switch Mewtwo in as the second Toxic Spikes are cast.
Palkia
Palkia has extremely diverse coverage, and as such, handling it greatly depends on the specific set. In general, having Toxic Spikes up early really neuters Palkia, and given how early this team aims to set Toxic Spikes, Palkia is often less threatening in practice than on paper. Latias is a good revenge killer to most sets, only really having problems with Haban Palkia and Outrage variants of Choice Scarf Palkia. Blissey will also wall any purely special set without much issue, barring rain-boosted Choice Specs Hydro Pump. It’s best to not Toxic into an unscouted Palkia with Blissey; use Seismic Toss instead to scout for Focus Punch.
Ho-Oh
Unlike with most other sun stalls, Ho-Oh is not much of a threat to this team. Standard SubRoost Ho-Oh can never break through Giratina barring ridiculous luck with crits; it can also scout more offensive sets like Choice Band, which can typically be limited with Stealth Rock.
Giratina
The defensive set with Rest + Sleep Talk and a status move and / or Roar is not particularly threatening; it is setup fodder for Forretress, and can be killed with Latias. Calm Mind sets are likewise easy to handle if Forretress managed to set a layer of Toxic Spikes, and in cases where it couldn’t, Latias can typically win an exchange by avoiding Dragon Pulsing into Protect.
Wobbuffet
Wobbuffet is usually used to enable setup sweepers against defensive teams, but this team has the tools to handle most of them, even after a setup turn. The most threatening (albeit very rare) set is Tickle Wobbuffet paired with a Pursuit trapper, as this eliminates Blissey and sometimes Giratina. This set usually represents an unwinnable matchup, though it can depend on Wobbuffet’s partners.
Latias
The vast majority of Latias sets pose no threat, and are either dealt with directly by Blissey, or with Forretress in the case of Calm Mind + Grass Knot sets. However, the rare Calm Mind + Refresh Latias proves to be a real threat to the team, and can break through it with ease. While use of the Scarf Dialga version or Dragon Claw on Groudon helps with this particular matchup, the overall rarity of CM Refresh Latias ensures that they are not mandatory.
Deoxys-Attack
Forretress handles most lead versions, and Cresselia beats offensive variants without the rare Shadow Ball. Otherwise, one can play around the very limited number of attacks Life Orb Deo-A has with hazards in play.
Clefable
Encore Clefable is extremely annoying to handle for the team; it needs to be PP stalled with Giratina. Calm Mind Latias can also beat it in certain situations. Non-Encore Clefable poses less of a threat, as it is a lot easier to PP stall, and is usually seen as a Stealth Rock setter.
Blissey
Blissey takes a while to break, but it is setup fodder for Forretress and is easy to PP stall with Giratina, so it is not much of an issue to the team overall.
Manaphy
Manaphy has barely any way to get through Latias itself, and thus should never be an issue on its own. However, it is commonly paired with trappers, and if the situation allows it, one should try to be a little careful about them. Also, using your Groudon efficiently will force Kyogre to come in frequently to set rain for Manaphy, limiting its ability to be threatening in the long term.
Deoxys-Speed
Typically, you’ll want to Toxic Spikes turn 1. Spin on Taunt to deny hazards, and it’s typically straightforward from there. If you get Tricked turn 1, go to Groudon immediately.
Darkrai
Use Toxic Spikes turn 1. It’s fine if you get Tricked - if they Taunt, it’s most likely a set with two coverage moves, and so it will fail to make much progress regardless. A possible line against a Taunt set is baiting sleep onto Giratina and then doubling to Groudon, although it isn’t the only one and carries some degree of risk.
Tyranitar
Do not risk Fire Blast turn 1; Groudon is a safer option. From there you can get rocks up for free, or Toxic as an aggressive play.
Froslass
The expected play from a Froslass lead turn 1 is Taunt - the usual option is to hard Groudon in and Lava Plume. If it didn’t get a burn proc, then you will have to attack again. Note that if they didn’t Taunt turn 1, it’s likely that they are running the very rare Destiny Bond, so play around that accordingly.
Rayquaza
As lead Rayquaza are typically mixed sets without Outrage, Cresselia is a very safe switchin; do not leave Forretress in.
Ho-Oh
Scout the set with Giratina turn 1. It can Rest on Choice Banded Brave Bird; and if Ho-Oh stayed in on Rest, it will be severely dented by recoil (35 to 41.6%), and Cresselia nearly always avoids the 2HKO.
Kyogre
Nearly all lead Kyogre are walled by Blissey, so it’s not much of an issue. Blissey is usually preferred as an initial switch-in over Latias due to Thunder Wave.
Deoxys-Attack
Deoxys-A leads carry a Fire move only rarely, so it’s typically fine to set up freely with Forretress. If one is very paranoid of coverage for it, Cresselia and Giratina wall all lead sets.
Forretress
Get a layer of Spikes up, and then Roar with Giratina. You can Rapid Spin turn 1 if you are worried about the Focus Sash set. Clicking Toxic Spikes instead of Spikes is fine, but Forretress lead teams will generally handle Toxic Spikes better than average.
Tentacruel
Get a Spike up with Forretress and spinblock; Toxic Spikes aren’t too difficult to play around.
Cloyster
Rapid Spin to break sash turn 1, get a hazard up, and then spinblock.
It is possible to make a very large change in replacing Latias by Choice Scarf Dialga. While this revision makes the team less effective overall, it does come with a few advantages. Namely, the speed control Scarf Dialga provides makes piloting against hyper offense much easier, and some threats to the original build like Lum Darkrai are nullified. Dialga also has customizable coverage to answer some otherwise threatening Pokemon. The set used is this:
Dialga @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
Earth Power allows Dialga to act as a Heatran lure, meaning that Earthquake is no longer necessary on Giratina. The last coverage move here can be modified - Thunder is the main consideration; it’s useful in the matchup against Choice Specs Kyogre. When using Thunder, it’s important to keep Earthquake on Giratina. A Modest nature is preferred for extra power, given that the main use for Dialga is revenge killing offensive threats - the team can easily switch into any base 90 Choice Scarf user. The given spread outpaces Rash Deoxys-A.
Despite the advantages it brings in certain matchups, using Latias makes the team more effective overall. The largest drawback is that the team becomes much weaker in longer games from losing a second Spike immunity, which becomes most noticeable when facing opposing bulky balance or stall teams. Latias is also a better rain check than Dialga, and handles some miscellaneous threats like Clefable.
Some matchups need to be played differently as well; one example is when facing Kyogre. Blissey alone cannot handle some sets (for example, Calm Mind + Rest), and so you will need to set up sun with Groudon prior to using Blissey or Giratina.
We are really happy about how this team has evolved; it started out as a “for-fun” idea featuring a very niche Pokemon, but now it’s not much of a stretch to call it the prototypical DPP Ubers stall team.
Highlord : We can’t thank you enough for all your help with this! I don’t think anyone used this team in tours as much as you did, and you were around to help with this from the very start, especially with the Dialga stuff. Rooting for you next UPL (hopefully)!
Tomahawk : Always great discussing DPP with you! Looking forward to the next time we get to team up or help each other in a tournament; been enjoying this almost more than I enjoy playing lately.
keys,
SparksBlade : You’re always very supportive, couldn’t ask for anything else!
Also I (Seldanna) wanted to tag a bunch of my friends who mean a lot to me -
Lyss,
Zenithial,
Skarph (if you see this someday),
umbry,
Apagogie and everyone from derek clan - wouldn’t enjoy the game at all without you!!
Hope you enjoy using the team, and feel free to comment or ask questions!
