OU DPP Post-Dugtrio Ban

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Hello everyone! Seeing as Dugtrio has just been banned (announcement can be found here), I figured it'd be a fun idea to talk about what may change in the metagame as a result of the Dugtrio ban. I'll list a few of the ones I've thought about that would be worth starting with to get discussion going. Seeing as I'm not a top player in DPP, I may get stuff wrong, so if I do, please feel free to correct me and i'll edit the OP! Anyways, here we go...


:Heatran: is going to be a way safer and splashable choice for a defensive Steel-type now that Dugtrio is out of the picture. This means we are now able to much more easily counter Jirachi, Latias, Zapdos, Rotom-A, Roserade, CM Clefable (if Explosion), etc. More offensive 3 attack sets may also be able to thrive as well outside the lead slot.

:Zapdos: could get worse due to being unable to U-Turn into Dugtrio to trap its counters, and the fact it can't come in after opposing Dugtrio traps something and get a free turn. The likely rise of Heatran won't be very good for it either. However, it should stay good within the metagame as it was good for its qualities outside of Dugtrio abuse before, and Dugtrio just helped increase the effectiveness of those qualities further.


:Tyranitar: is a total winner of the Dugtrio ban, due to it not needing to worry about being trapped and unable to do anything if it lacked Shuca Berry. It can now more reliably come in on Pokemon like Latias, Heatran, Clefable, CM Jirachi, etc.

:Breloom: will very much take not being trapped by Aerial Ace, and being safer to bring game-to-game as a result. Will also enjoy Tyranitar (a common partner) being better and more safely capable of trapping Latias, Zapdos, Rotom and such. Defensive Heatran likely coming back could result in it running enough Speed to creep it on more teams.

:Clefable: likes not being trapped if worn down into range of Dugtrio Earthquake, or being Screeched if it Knocked Off Dugtrio's Choice Band. However, its CM set loses potency due to not being as easily able to fit a partner that as easily removes checks like Jirachi, Taunt or Explosion Heatran, Tyranitar, Breloom, etc. I predict the support set will be better than the CM sets for this reason.

:Infernape: will like the increase in Heatran, Tyranitar, Breloom, Clefable, etc. as a result of Dugtrio's absence, as well as losing a way to effortlessly remove any set lacking Scarf.

:Jirachi: will definitely enjoy not having to pray for a 60% chance to beat Dugtrio if it faces off vs Dugtrio at full HP and if it's physically defensive. This will let it more safely handle Zapdos, Latias, CM Jirachi, etc from a lack of needing to worry about being trapped. However, it won't enjoy Pokemon like Infernape, Heatran, etc being better and more freely able to come in on it.

:Magnezone: is probably just as big of a fan of this ban as Heatran, if not moreso. Without Dugtrio able to effortlessly remove it (moreso than many of Dugtrio's targets), it will be able to get more creative with its sets and act as a better check to things like Clefable and especially Jirachi. Charge Beam sets in particular seem appealing, with them able to abuse many Jirachi sets, and be a big threat to bulkier teams in a similar way to Charge Beam Rotom (they're not 1 to 1, they just have some similarities). Also, Scarf (perhaps with HP Ground / Ice for Heatran and Gliscor respectively) may become a lot better to revenge kill things.

Please post here your thoughts of what will change! I hope we can see the opinions of many people who are active within the DPP community!
 
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So all the best mons got better then?
Not necessarily. Sure, some Pokemon like Tyranitar and Heatran may improve, but these are two Pokemon that we'd want to see at the top. They are healthy and help to maintain balance against the likes of Jirachi, Latias, Clefable, etc (who all get easier to handle without Dugtrio in the mix).

I think most Pokemon kinda stay around the same spheres of viability, as there are both pros and cons from Dugtrio leaving on an individual scale. Main winners are Tyranitar, Heatran, and Infernape I'd say, which is nice to see. Zapdos doesn't care too much about no Dugtrio -- Zapdos still does Zapdos things. Breloom got picked off by Aerial Ace but also abused Dugtrio's bad Choice locks and was part of some anti-Dugtrio cores itself. Another thing worth mentioning is that Dugtrio filtered out a surprising number of cool Pokemon that may see use again; thinking of Raikou and Tentacruel here, among some other interesting choices.

Been playing quite a bit of DPP today since Dugtrio has left, and it's been a blast. That feeling of actually being able to switch Heatran, Tyranitar, etc into the Pokemon they're supposed to answer without that fear of being dugged is incredible. If you've got a lot of DPP teams in your builder, I don't think you'll have to do any deep cleaning. Dugtrio's exit has not strongly altered the foundation that we've adapted to at all. It feels like a bit of new life has been injected into the tier, as these Jirachi + Latias + Clefable defensive cores that brutally dominated the tier may be shaken up a bit, which is nice because honestly, they were too strong (they're still super good though).
 
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Gamer1234556

"Because... Scald is a shit Ferro answer!!!"
I wonder how the VR would look like now since Dugtrio has been banned. (That said, I am honestly under the opinion that the VR would need a redux either way due to how much the meta has changed by now).
 
I expect that the status quo right now is still balance teams, as it was before the Dugtrio ban - albeit with a slight shift in focus without Calm Mind Clefable + Dugtrio shenanigans and more towards Support Clefable and such. The most interesting development will probably be new ways to punish these teams that were a liability before in the Dugtrio meta. What happens after I cannot say, but I can make some speculations about what will see more usage in the coming time.

:heatran: Heatran is the obvious mon that's just going to be a lot better, I think simply the Leftovers set will give some more options to the balance teams, but the Lava Plume / Explosion set also is a bitch to deal with. I think the best set for it right now to dismantle balance teams would be Magma Storm, if not for its disappointing accuracy. Still, a simple Magma Storm / Explosion (or Taunt) / Hidden Power Grass / filler set lets you pick apart teams if Magma Storm hits. A set that I really liked a few months back is Metal Sound, which beats stuff like Support Clefable and Tyranitar 1 on 1, and even stuff like Milotic if they switch into Metal Sound. It's a nightmare for these balance teams, so it might be good again now that Leftovers Heatran is again usable. Finally, I think Specs gets a uptick in viability.

:infernape: Infernape is just a personal favourite of mine, so it's gonna be interesting if he gets a boost from this. With Starmie at an all time low (from what I've seen pre-ban), and some possibilities to deal with Latias (eg. U-turn, Pursuit) there is potential here. Still, I think he needs proper support as Life Orb is worn down quickly and Leftovers is weak. I think Choice Band might simply be the best set right now on its own, as no switchin appreciates U-turn + hazards.

:tyranitar: Choice Scarf Tyranitar probably just got a lot more viable. This will be bad for mons like Specs Latias, offensive Starmie and Gengar.

:jirachi: I'm interested to see if Calm Mind Jirachi might pick up or if it is simply not worth it to lose out on Iron Head. I think any "standard" balance team might actually have a hard time dealing with all Calm Mind Jirachi sets with its amazing coverage or durability.

Offense
One thing I noticed after coming back is that straight offense teams of stacking setup sweepers seem to be at a low point in viability (compared to when I quit ~2016). I'm interested to see if they will make a comeback depending on meta shifts. A few of the good threats might actually appreciate the Dug ban:

:tyranitar: Dragon Dance Tyranitar can now set up safely. Feels like Ice Punch is quite good on it now too, with a lot of teams relying on Gliscor or Breloom to check it.

:gyarados: :dragonite: Dragon Dance Gyarados and Dragonite - who actually abused Choice-locked Dugtrio, I know - might actually appreciate the expected drop in Calm Mind Clef usage, who is often healthy late game and stops a sweep from either. Support Clef folds over to both, so weakening the Skarmory or Rotom might be a lot more rewarding now.
 
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shade

be sharp, say nowt
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i've been playing around with a dragmag style team with an offensive core of dragons (dnite, lati usually) coupled with OTR zong. with dugtrio gone magnezone can reliably trap non-shed skarm and i have been using a sub+lum with twave set to have a much better match up against jirachi. i have even been toying with metal sound in the 4th move slot, which can be a nice answer to potential cmers however i feel that works a bit better with lefties so boom or a hidden power might be better on the whole. with skarm/jira gone very little can stand up to the combo of dragons + OTR zong.

i also think the combo of specstran+defensive rotom-a+water type works really nicely. specs overheat is obscene we all know that and you can now fire them of without fear of being dugged. the stuff that can try take advantage of this, either as a switch-in or after a sac, is usually dealt with by defensive rotom-a and stuff like suicune. you're gonna be seeing a lot of ttars, gyaras, dnite and opposing trans. opposing bulkier waters like milo, cune and starmie can be annoying but starmie takes like 70 from timid overheat and you're getting off huge damage on cune which is great especially if it isnt resttalk. i've found joy using toxic milotic and cm 3 atks suicune as the water type in this slot.

i want to make some squads with offensive ttars (band & dd) as i think they could be the big winner from this. i don't think i'm as sold on infernape yet as the other posters above me, i think the reasons you pick other stuff over infernape for various roles (chip, power w/o item) still apply a lot. would be cool to see ape top tier again though.
 

Emeral

toward new horizons
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In an ideal metagame, heavy offense is a "high risk high reward" strategy that provides tools to overwhelm unfavorable matchups while nullifying chances to come back for good matchups at the cost of being on a timer. So in general, that leaves very little place for error: if you give up the momentum by being outplayed for example (opponent predicts the Gyarados on a double down and responds with an unexpected Rotom while rocks are up), you are basically in the dirt.

To make this intro fast we could admit that stall is the opposite (mistakes are less punitive but at the cost of having less options against unfavorable matchups) while balance is the midground between both.

However, with Dug being around, it feels like this equilibrium has been kinda shaken up because both balance and stall had to choose between:

- should I be sturdy against Dugclef at the cost of being frail against the vast majority of the metagame?

Tearanitar (Tyranitar) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 48 HP / 144 Atk / 52 SpA / 184 SpD / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

This Ttar is running Shuca Berry like it wants to kill Flygon or Gliscor but it can't really hurt them because the coverage it uses is usually necessary. Wanna run Ice Beam over FB to optimize? Enjoy being walled by Skarmory. Over EQ then? just taste that Heatran subbin' and protectin' on your ass as a Tyranitar. Just pair it with Mag so you can run Ice Beam? Cool idea but you're already super restricted and provide even more food to Dugtrio. Run it with Trick Ball Gross to abuse Skarm? Same deal. Just get rid of SR then? That is probably the best idea but you got rid of Stealth Rock (I have so many Stealth Rock Ttar teams, one of the best user in the game) and the Dugtrio issue isn't totally fixed :blobshrug:


Tearanitar (Tyranitar) @ Custap Berry / Passho / Whatever
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 240 HP / 144 Atk / 100 Def / 16 SpD / 8 Spe
Brave Nature
- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

This Ttar is meant to always survive Dugtrio after rocks. However, it requires a ton of EVs invested in bulk for it to survive making it way worse than it should be in every scenario unless it meets Dug. Defense Evs dont matter that much on that set. In general, you need to invest those Evs in Speed, Atk, or SpA or even SpeDef to get the most out of it.

Now that I think about it, I even remember that I used this suboptimal set against Excal in SPL finals to have some kind of safety against Dugtrio:

EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 184 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Toxic
- Protect

Yes sir I'm not joking, impish spedef Ttar! I would never run that again.


Jirachiasse (Jirachi) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Grass Knot

I mean, this Jirachi isn't a bad set. It's actually pretty decent for those teams that need safety against Flygon and that can't switch really into Gliscor/Swampert because they struggle with ground moves. However, this is not the defensive pillar that will switch into Latias and shrug it off or that will be able to stand against the likes of Starmie and Gengar while still being able to handle Lucario later. No, this variant is the paper version of Jirachi, it dies quickly and is worse overall than its leftovers variant. At least it's safe vs Dugtrio...


TheFakeSafety (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 36 SpD / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch

That feeling when you get 10% cheaped and die from Dug. Still probably one of the best midground between utility and Dug counterpart ever available. I've been running this kind of spread on almost all my 3atks Jirachi for months now. This has been saving me but I'm not gonna lie, not often. Hopefully, the defense Evs help to handle Breloom, Ttar, Gyarados, Dragonite so it was really worth running.


Flip a coin (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Iron Head

60% chance to beat Dugtrio. Does not beat CM Clef. Do I need to explain more why it's unreliable at doing what it should do? Still... it was definitely one of the best options we had because it is super reliable against the rest of the metagame: fortifies defensive structures against Breloom / CB Tar and check DDers while still being able to handle special threats that are the like of Starmie, Gengar, Latias and Empoleon. I'm not bothered by running this set, it's actually really good and we don't get instantly destroyed by Dugtrio + Clefable but we still don't really win :blobthinking:


WeakTran (Heatran) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Flash Fire
Hidden Power: Grass
EVs: 148 HP / 216 SpA / 144 Spe
Mild Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion

This is a bad version of Heatran that does not instantly die as it comes in. Some of you might laugh about this but I swear a lot of people, myself included, have considered that set. Shed Shell Magma Storm maybe too.. And I'm not gonna mention Shed Shell Jirachi because knowing that some players ran this breaks my heart even more.

If these mons provide unfavorable compromise, why don't you just use something else?

Simply because there is no replacement for them, Jirachi and Ttar are S rank for a reason. Not using them is like fighting with a hand behind your back. Not using them means that you generally have to use underperforming structures against the rest of the metagame and not to forget that both Jirachi and Ttar are part of the best tools available to safely deal with Clefable. Imagine having to play BW without using Latios and Ttar or ADV without using Pert and Ttar, like in DPP it is possible but not recommended.

I'm not gonna mention all the alternatives possible because it would too long as those are the most representative. I wouldn't use stuff like scarf Ape or scarf Tran just to deal with the dugtrio issue because those mons are, like the others, generally underperforming.
- should I be sturdy against the vast majority of the metagame at the cost of being frail against Dugclef?

Tyranitar @ Passho Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 48 HP / 144 Atk / 52 SpA / 184 SpD / 80 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Definitely avoid that in a Dugtrio metagame, not that it's a bad set, but you will often end up dying to Dugtrio after doing very little because Latias will Draco-Suicid it, Zapdos will U-turn as you hard it or the opponent wil just hard Dugtrio on the obvious SR play (that's not an incredible play or a form of outplaying it's just about recognizing patterns and you can not always scout for a Dugtrio). Overall very solid and consistent choice otherwise.


Heatran @ Passho Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Hidden Power: Grass
EVs: 148 HP / 216 SpA / 144 Spe
Mild Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Explosion

Similar to Passho Ttar.


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Lava Plume
- Explosion
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

This one is even more predictable because early game leftovers Tran very often means Stealth Rock. Again, it's all about recognizing patterns and you can't afford to play scared all the time. Dugtrio can even tank a Lava Plume if it wants to anyway.. so yeah strong but definitely avoid.


Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
Hidden Power: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Surf
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Same story here.


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Hidden Power: Ground
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Definitely, the type of sweeper to avoid in a dug meta, it will get Dugged pretty often. In a way, it's similar to Infernape or Life orb Heatran...

Then we have some kind of good structures that get obliterated by Dugtrio.

Capture.PNG

You can run Reflect Latias, Zapdos or Gliscor with all of those, that will absolutely not provide you the ground control you need against Dugtrio.

Even if using Breloom + That can be considered as an anti-Dugtrio measure because Dug has to Aerial Ace Breloom which provides a free Pursuit for Ttar, it is still very unreliable as you can see in the replay down below.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-474859
-Im tired of having to choose so I'll just flip a coin against CM Clef

Mr Freeze (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled

What is better than your own Clefable to deal with the opposing Clefable? Let's just use Dugclef, CM Clef Spikes, or randomly incorporate it to our teams. It doesn't get Dugged and is consistent in general. The issue with that strategy is that you rely on a CM war to deal with it... This cancer 1v1 was sadly actually common and a real part of the DPP metagame.
Just guess how this emblematic team deals with opposing Clefable: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-wheelchair-company.3664808/
RBY or ABR mechanics! call it as you want but it is very unhealthy for the tier and still unreliable. :blobshrug:


PrayTheLord (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar
- Recover

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-506666
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-475146
Sometimes it wins sometimes it doesnt :blobshrug:
This is not even haxx considering that Clef is fishing for both critical hit and freeze.


Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Excellent choice because Clefable only has 12 thunderbolts against it. So yeah it has good odds. However, this Suicune is a huge to support because it is weak to Spikes and sand, walled by Breloom, and has to use Rest to stay healthy which means that it struggles at handling threats safely compared to a Milotic for example. Still an excellent choice, I'm not surprised it made a come back in this metagame as it also synergizes well with Mag but still a risky strategy.

So yeah.. Dugtrio is a threat and all the ways to handle the strategies behind it seem kinda risky. I'm kinda extrapolating but this is like: either you win vs it and lose vs the rest, win vs the rest or lose vs it, use it yourself, or use coinflip strategies like CM war.

To get back to the equilibrium between archetypes in the Dugtrio metagame, each option players have at their disposal seems somewhat risky because you can't handle all the strategies decently. Everything is at least "medium risk" and the "low risk" approach does not exist anymore. You can not pick a solid balance team that you are comfortable with and rely on your piloting skills or metagame knowledge to consistently win. You permanently have to choose between those midgrounds which finally end up leading to matchup issues that you can not overcome no matter how good you are.

With that in mind, it makes no surprise that we have seen a resurgence of rain, screens, machamp para spam, set up spam, or even Explosion stack offense teams and more generally heavy offense (except for para-spam but it's cheesy so ill put those together) because this is a kind of style that does not care much about the strategies that are employed by the opponent. Whether it is facing stall, balance or HO mirror or even dugclef: either you manage to stop the assault/shutdown the momentum and you are most likely going to win either you don't and you are most likely going lose.

So yeah, in such a metagame, playing offense/cheese/fast teams/call it whatever you want seems to be less risky than playing a bulky/balanced team (unless you run your own CM Clef or the options listed above) because it provides the tools to win, not super constantly but more constantly than the rest of the options, to overcome the wider amounts of matchups.

We had a metagame where defensive structures were extremely effective because people were scared to use strong dismantling cores like Heatran/Loom/Tar (also with Latias and Dug being around Infernape really struggles)/strong dismantling sets like Heatran@Magma Storm + Taunt/Toxic and where people use a lot of Dugtrio + Clefable because it is busted. Because there is no way to handle all those strategies at once people splashed their own CM Clefable on their defensive teams or use cheese and hyper offense to try to overwhelm those strategies. Not that I dislike hyper offense and cheese but what an unhealthy metagame when it remains the best options to run!!!

Hopefully, Dugtrio is banned and now that players have more tools to handle the threats I think there is a good chance that the equilibrium I have been talking about will recover. Stallish structures will certainly favor support Clefable over the Cam Mind one (it will surely remain good tho), balanced structures should be able to make full profit of stall breaking tools meaning that they should go up in usage while heavy offense/cheese should not be the default playstyle anymore if you arent running Clef + trappers. I'm not saying that DPP will be a perfect metagame with a perfect balance between stall and offense but it will be great to have those options again (yes again because we used to have those) and to illustrate my thoughts, I would like to conclude this post by showing 2 teams skeletons I just made recently because I think they have the potential to shine in the current metagame although they have been drastically underperforming in the dug era.

Capture.PNG

This is one is using a core of Specs Heatran + dual trick for special walls + Breloom + Ttar in order to have a ton of pressure on defensive structures while still having the tools to pivot around threats because every member of the team has a dedicated defensive role. I decided to splash shuca Jirachi in order to soften the matchup against Flygon (that looked rly cool for Gliscor too) and Mach Loom for DD Tar that Rotom doesn't keep in check.

Capture.PNG

Second standard looking one, it aims to suffocate defensive structures with a core para-spreader + Subpunch Breloom + CB Tar (for Reflect Latias that is the only true check to that Breloom) while still having a reliable defensive backbone that provides tools to pivot at least temporarily. Flygon provides a very pleasant cleanup option as well as an Electric immunity for the pesky Rotoms that Ttar wouldn't trap or even Magnezone.

I absolutely do not claim to have invented these strategies, as I said it is very standard and proven, but im really happy to have those options again. I think this new era is really worth exploring so open your teambuilder, put some Heatran and see how it goes.
 
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Hey guys!

Wanted to revive this thread to share my thoughts on the post duggy metagame -- I think it's been a super positive force to blunt the power of those invasive CM Clef (and Zap/Rachi) teams that were pervasive before. I wanted to do a linear style post similar to what Gen 3 does to show some of my builds post ban and some cool sets I've been using. I think we're super close to a wave of optimization in Gen 4, where archetypes are nailed down and creative players can make awesome teams.

So first, here is my (serious teams) teambuilder since the dug ban: https://pastebin.com/DNBTSVCw

I've used all of these teams on high ladder (I've been on the ladder for quite a long time showdown/PO) and in my recent dpp tours, so they're generally quite solid. I'm not saying they're all amazing, but I've had fun playing them and think they match up well w the current metagame.

Onto the metagame (I might edit this later to make it seem a little less messy)

- First and foremost, I really think the classic SpDef Clef w Knock and Rocks is pretty bad rn. I think the player base has generally adapted well to those fat stalls teams (like the I crawled team BKC made (protect leftovers TTar, Bulky Rachi, Protect Clef, Skarm, Scarf Rotom, Nidoqueen)) by just building teams that beat the combo of WishTech Rachi, Clef, and Skarm with something like Breloom + other abusers as an example. I don't think win rate is gospel, but Clef has had a pretty bad win rate in SPL and the games it was in (sorry to call out ToF, but their clef teams really seemed to lose in the builder despite good play) just didn't seem as effective. I think to be effective, Clef needs to be used more as a supporter, like in the team Void used with healing wish, the trick sticky barbs version I've seen floating around, or really trying to build around CM Clef (I have a version in my dump, but it really is quite hard to do w/o duggy)

- I think Leftovers Metagross (and honestly, meta in general) is fantastic right now. It can either trade w Boom, just sit on Jirachi super well, or even Trick Iron Ball/Run scarf. I think it is one of the main reasons Rachi has gone to a lot of stall teams/para spam, whereas before it was on a bunch of archetypes, bc meta just does so well against it by taking jack from its coverage/iron head and retaliating w eq.

- I've been seeing a lot of Azelf 5 out (Azelf Gyara Dnite Luke Ttar Metagross or some variation) HO on ladder/tours/SPL. This archetype has always been around, but I think getting creative w your sets is a great way to switch it up/throw your opp off. I have a version of it w Scarf Luke in my dump. We saw all kinds of Super bulky Azelfs, Wacan Gyaras, SD Empos, etc in the HO teams and I think this can freshen up an archetype that feels fairly strict in terms of what you can use

- I think the Rose balance teams we've seen since like 2018/2019 are here to stay. I think there are plenty of ways to punish rose teams for spiking, but they cover the meta really well with their FWG cores + Gengar/Scarf Rotom + CMer (rachi or cune typically) + filler. I have a version w Meta in my dump (similar to the first team Sakito used in SPL), but I'm looking forward to these teams throughout the next year.

- I'm loving the EQ Latias sets. I think it also grows to a general metagame trend of Psy spam similar to what we see in BW. A lot of nonstall teams rely on bulky Tar to take on all of lati/Rotom-a/insert Psychic here, and I think taking advantage of that is good. I'm thinking like LO lati Draco + eq (or another set I'm really liking +2 Celebi Leaf Storm if they try to revenge you) to open a scarf rotom for example.

- I think we're finally seeing some breakout in the ParaSpam archetypes. Last year we mostly saw SD Loom/Sub Roost Nasty Togekiss as the main abusers (alongside Machamp). However, we've seen a lot more -- heracross, Emeral had a cool team w Twave Gyara + Azelf which I have rebuilt in the dump, even something like Mamo, Slowbro, etc. I'm looking forward more outside to the old Jirachee build of Rachi, Zap, Bliss, Starm + 2 filler!

Now for some sets!
1616129075277.png

Azelf @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 228 HP / 216 Def / 8 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Explosion
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock

In the BKC video (it's great, go watch it!) for Azelf in DPP, he mentioned the advantages of really physically bulky Azelf (Not needing Colbur, tanking Meta w/o a sitrus, even (rarely) tanking a +1 Dnite Outrage!). However, he didn't mention a spread -- here's mine. This specifically tanks Scarf Crunch Tar after Sand, outspeeds and Tanks Rose's Leaf Storm, and has a 1/128 chance to die to Champ w/o crits. You could put a little speed creep in for other fat Azelfs, as you can't guarantee live both Rose Leaf and Machamp Payback + Bullet, trust me I tried. It works great on both rain and HO and as you don't super need the speed (you only really lose out to max Speed rachi, Gliscor, and the rare Timid Specs Zapdos of the common leads over the 330 Speed version)

1616129727872.png

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 48 HP / 52 Def / 192 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Roar
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

Roar Cune! I think Cune is really awesome in DPP, and has the power to make the most out of its other options. This set is relatively common in ADV, but isn't super common in DPP and really is quite good, especially alongside those Spikes Rose Balance we're seeing. Roar cune is good bc it prevents you from getting phased by most CM Latis/phase other Cunes and Rachis, can abuse its ability to force switches w Rocks/Spikes down for hazard damage, and can still be largely used for DD Gyara duty bc most (of those that have it anyway) won't try to taunt out of fear of HP Electric. Speaking of HP Electric, you do miss it against the various waters, but Rose can help w those. The evs mean you don't get 2HKOed by Gyara + don't get OHKOed by +1 Outrage after Rocks and one round of Leftovers and still outspeed Jolly Mamo.

1616130215958.png

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 196 Def / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock

As mentioned above, I think Lefties Meta is really awesome right now. This is a spread I imported from Adv -- it lives +2 Jolly Tar EQ. I think you can really play w the moveslots and EVs -- Leftovers invalidates a lot of the chip Meta sustains, and you really only need Max HP to solo most of the metagame.

1616130372269.png

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 HP / 12 Def / 60 SpA / 144 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Superpower
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Man I've been running this on my SR Tars since 2015, but I think it is just now gaining some traction -- Max Speed! The evs in particular survive Ada Loom Mach from full, KO same Loom w Fire Blast, and the rest in SpD. Obviously, there are many different ways to EV/item it (I sometimes take out of SpD to hit the attack jump point from Lonely), but outspeeding other tars/lots of Loom/other things in Tar's speed tier is great. I like Lum bc you outspeed most RestTalk rotoms and nail them w crunch before they can burn you twice, but Chople/Passho/Custap obv work too. We saw Mael take a game in SPL with something similar to this spread outspeed Scarf Bliss, so there are many advantages!

1616130656332.png

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Ground]

I may have been down on Rachi earlier, but this is a new tech I've been using on some of my bulky Jirachis -- HP Ground! Even w a minus nature, HP ground still does a lot to Zone, (0- SpA Jirachi Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 200-236 (71.1 - 83.9%)) and will 2HKO Offensive Heatran. You need some robust anti fire punch Jirachi w this set, but this is quite good for opening up something like Forretress or something else that gets trapped by Zone.

1616130921327.png

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Leaf Storm
- Nasty Plot
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This has been posted before, but I've been loving this on my Offenses -- Nasty Celebi! It has been posted in the underrated threats thread before, but I really like Leftovers on it. I've tried various resist berries, meadow plate, etc by I thought Leftovers gives you the longevity you need to really get past Stall (which this set does quite well). I've been really liking it alongside threats like bulky SD scizor and OTR Zong, bc it gives you a natural Tran lure while also smacking Suicune and other offensive waters, which those typically struggle against.

1616131152715.png

Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Counter
- Taunt
- Earthquake

All credit to Malekith, I think he was the first one to use this set, but Counter/Taunt is really good a get a lot of value of Nidoqueen. Taunt is naturally pretty awesome to keep Clef and Skarm low and unable to set up hazards on the typically passive nidoqueen. However, Counter is really cool too, bc one of the main ways to wear it down it hit it repeatedly w strong physical attacks (think Loom's Seed bomb, Machamp Ice punch, etc) and Counter just invalidates them.

1616131316308.png


Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Def / 148 SpA / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Beam

Not like I invented this, but people really need to stretch out from just using TWave SR on Bliss! Bliss has a huge movepool, and can be quite good at using it. This specific spread guarantees the break on Rotom's subs, as Bliss being walled by Sub Rotom and Gengar is really painful. I think Bliss is due for a comeback -- I have been really liking the Bliss offense that has been on the come up this SPL and last, and you always have the reliable ParaSpams that use it.

Other sets people have been using that I like: EQ latias (lefties or LO), Protect Offensive Breloom (either sporeless SD like the one Tama used or the one Mael in week 1), Special Jirachi (either CM or SR), Trick Black Sludge Gengar, DD Chople Tyranitar, Thunder Defensive Jirachi, Healing Wish Clefable, Offensive CroCune, Bold Roserade, Running a Para Trick Scarfer like Togekiss on Paraspam cause they're so slow, SD Abomasnow, Scarf Luke w Copycat, and SD Empo

That's all I have, thanks for reading and hope to see you out there!
 
Last edited:

august

you’re a voice that never sings
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OGC Leader
so as some people know, this was my last spl (for a while, at least). i was met with the same fate as my first spl 8 years ago, losing a close series to the wolfpack in semifinals... there were a few reasons that i wanted to play - i really wanted to play in the post dugtrio dpp meta and didnt want my last official team tournament to be a very poor showing in SSD3. i didn't have an incredible showing in dpp, with a 4-3 record, but i was happy to have done alright after taking some suboptimal endgame lines in 2 of my first 3 weeks. i'd like to show some cool sets that i cooked up during my long nights in the lab and share a couple of teams that i never got a chance to bring.

my teams this spl were pretty offensive in nature. after facing magnezone + 2-4 water types in wcop 2018 / some unofficial team tournaments / week 1 of this spl, i realized that i wasnt going to be able to hang out in my comfort zone much. i'm a known skarmory advocate, a certified clefable spammer, and an avid user of gliscor and milotic. those pokemon, while being great, can be overwhelmed in the teambuilder. i decided to go back to my long forgotten roots as an offense player, which was honestly a nice redemption arc. i had forgotten how precise those games become - in 19 turn games every single turn is impactful and it makes it important to glean as much information as possible from team composition and in game information. more importantly, offense is a lot more "wide open" in this post dugtrio metagame. i have felt like stall has been relatively "solved" for a while now, and the different flavors really come down to what you expect from your opponent. its easy to build but its not interesting to build (for most people, at least x) ). anyway, heres some sets that i used this spl.

1616422330575.png

seeing stars (Starmie) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Trick

i've been a bit defensive starmie hater ever since latias got reintroduced to the tier. i think that its better to use teams that are very spikes conscious than it is to use starmie on fat builds. offensive starmie feels a bit underwhelming with its 3 attacks spin set. it just doesn't hit hard enough to warrant the slot except under very specific circumstances. specs starmie on the other hands hits like a truck. the standard set here tends to be hydro pump / psychic / trick / rapid spin, and i think that set is straight up bad. i have never once wanted to click psychic in a tier where the mons at 50% usage are a dark type that commonly runs pursuit and a 4x resist that can punish free turns like nothing else. in the team structures that specs starmie lead tends to be on, i think that its common that if youve ever reached the point in the game where you need to click rapid spin youve already lost. boltbeam coverage has been much better to me than psychic and rapid spin have. trick is nice to have in the back in case of random bulky stat uppers (clef, latias etc). ice beam lets you actually punish latias switch ins as well (calc below) which is nice when you dont have room for something like tyranitar.

252 SpA Choice Specs Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 206-244 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

1616422951360.png

geronimo (Empoleon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 236 HP / 208 SpA / 56 SpD / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Hydro Pump
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

empoleon is a great pokemon. its strong enough to actually threaten just about everything that isnt blissey, and it has nice natural bulk that i don't think gets taken advantage of often enough. i used this against malekith because i thought that it was unlikely that he'd bring clefable or blissey, and this empoleon set is just a demon to switch into for a lot of bulkier teams. your water/steel typing allows you to check latias and opposing empoleon well. the evs worked out really nicely, you hit a jump point in satk, 8 creep is for clefable, and 236/56 lets you eat just about any non specs stab tbolt and do a boatload back with hydro pump. heres some nice calcs

(ive not seen any modest zap recently but i guess it can technically ohko you from full)
252+ SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 236 HP / 56 SpD Empoleon: 312-368 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

you eat 2 299 satk tbolts from the likes of jirachi/starmie which help you 1v1 them
252 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 236 HP / 56 SpD Empoleon: 162-192 (44 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO

scarf zone tbolt doesnt ohko and always knocks you into torrent so you can pump back
252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 236 HP / 56 SpD Empoleon: 290-344 (78.8 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

the 236 hp lets you take some big hits from scarftar / flygon too
252 Atk Tyranitar Superpower vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 298-352 (80.9 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 306-360 (83.1 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

1616423517590.png

little secrets (Flygon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roost

i have always been very high on flygon. excellent resists / immunities, including a stealth rock resist and immunity to spikes and toxic spikes. mix flygon showed itself as an absolute menace this spl, and the wonderful thing about it is that its just so hard to punish. opponents need to respect scarf flygon and mix flygon until the set is revealed and very few things are blanket checks to both outside of like milotic and hippo. speaking of revealing the set: stop using -sdef on your mixed flygons. the most common opening for flygon to come in without much drawback is against heatran. if the heatran clicks a fire move instead of stealth rock or whatever you expect, you have a massive chance of revealing your set just from damage rolls. flygon is also just generally quite a nice heatran check, and its uncommon for flygon to be coming into physical attacks in the early game unless your position is very poor. i've used both +satk and +spe this spl and it really ends up being team dependent. +spe mixgon has the potential to absolutely shred those roserade balances since their out is often to engage with jirachi. the coverage and roost also means that flygon is potent against defensive builds, though you might want spikes if youre expecting to face something like hippo or milo. if you drop spe to +satk then you can run some attack evs as well, which makes your rolls for breaking through clefable more favorable.

1616427300739.png

across the border (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 40 Def / 196 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Calm Mind

offensive cm cune is not a new thing by any means, but has definitely had a resurgence this spl. when i decided to use suicune i wanted to see if there were any cool benchmarks that i could hit with evs. i wont talk too much about the set, but the use for the evs are shown below. the speed evs hit 260 for dnite

2hko on latias with ice beam after rocks, always eats a meteor after rocks + lefties
196+ SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latias: 134-158 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

eats adamant dnite outrage after rocks + lefties
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 56 HP / 40 Def Suicune: 282-333 (79.4 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

ohkos gyara after rocks over 95% of the time factoring in crit
196+ SpA Suicune Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 248-296 (74.9 - 89.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

still ohkos dnite without rocks
196+ SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Dragonite: 340-400 (105.2 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

1616424687421.png

Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Atk / 20 Def / 168 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Protect

essentially an adv set ported over to dpp, where i find it a bit more important to have some sdef on your steels. 3 atks + protect trades insanely well vs offense and is a soft check to quite a lot. some calcs are given below

attack benchmark is for ddtar:
68+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

sdef lets you eat some strong stuff:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross in Rain: 306-361 (84 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Torrent Empoleon Surf vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 313-369 (85.9 - 101.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Heatran Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 312-368 (85.7 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 318-376 (87.3 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

and to broadly check a number of threats:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 139-164 (38.1 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latias Surf vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 126-149 (34.6 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Rotom-Wash Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Metagross: 123-145 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

defense lets you eat ddnite after a spike or after a spike+rock with protect lefties:
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 20 Def Metagross: 288-340 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

this of course means you eat +1 ddtar eq and +1 gyara as well

1616425515741.png

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Refresh
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

offensive swampert is a menace on a lot of teams as well. on the particular team that i was testing this on (shown below) the original had cb pert but i didnt like my restalk rotom matchup being so passive. i wanted to be able to punish fat rotom balances, and it felt to me like refresh pert was a good way of doing that. you now shrug off will o wisps, sdef tran lava plume burns, and those terrible rng heat wave burns from zapdos and force them to answer swampert in a proactive way rather than fishing for secondary effects.

i never got to use this team but its very powerful. i wont post full sets because its an adaptation from a soulwind team:
1616425579142.png


you have the tools to win hazard games in the long run and you have strong pressure from both pert and lucario against fat balances. luc priority goes a long way vs offense

a team that i made before spl that never got to use myself is this bad boy
1616425680951.png


immediately after the dugtrio ban i was trying to make some alternative versions of the scarf magnezone balance archetype thats been floating around for a while now. one problem that i always had was that dynamic punch was just free vs half of your team, and even with techs like pressure suicune (passive, long term wincon but not actually great at checking some offensive threats) and phys def jirachi (trades paras a fair amount, still takes quite a bit from dynamic punch). when i was theorymoning with McMeghan he suggested slowbro and i was immediately sold. slowbro checks physical swampert better than milotic does and is still a serviceable switch in to special swampert if things go wrong. you spread paralysis with twave and provide a strong switch in for sd ice punch lucario, dd gyara, and dd dragonite. sd loom without spore simply ravages a lot of defensive builds with even a small amount of paralysis support. this does make you a lot weaker to tyranitar, so i do have a version with 3 attacks spore as well. i chose to forego reflect on latias because a) i think its a huge crutch that people rely on and b) without haze milotic you absolutely need a phazer for things like cm jirachi and vincune. breloom can do a fine job against vincune if its the last mon thanks to the extra pp with facade, and magnezone can attack cm jirachi down to the point where it wont necessarily break through clefable.

the paste for the team is here: https://pokepast.es/0cdd7f60195323d4
and some replays from random side tournaments and my ladder excursions:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-528403
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-1223089047
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-535194
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen4ou-528585

it was really interesting to watch the tier evolve in a post dugtrio metagame. some of my personal thoughts: roserade balances have a lot of tools for almost any matchup. i think that they are the team to beat for now, but we've already seen adaptation in the later weeks of spl to combat them. i think that stall and paraspam have both taken a pretty big hit, but its a low sample size. i think that stall in general is much easier to account for in the teambuilder without the restrictions that dugtrio imposed. that being said, it is still a punishing playstyle. set up overload is good at overwhelming teams but still faces problems with scarf flygon and strong priority (e.g. lucario) at the end of the day. scarf magnezone balance was my personal favorite, but i think that it struggles vs roserade and the gang (especially with taunt gengar) at the end of the day, which is why i never brought it.

some of my personal favorite mons to look out for in this new meta are mix flygon, ddtar, and hp ground superrachi. i think that they are in good positions to be mainstays in the tier for quite some time.

thanks for reading my post
 

Attachments

I was originally going to make a post about how I disagree with some of the statements in this thread (I definitely don't think stall or Clef are bad and find win rate to be a terrible stat), but decided to leave that for a video instead. So, here are some things I've been toying with before and during SPL


Phaedra (Starmie) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Rapid Spin
- Psychic / Thunderbolt / Surf / Ice Beam / Thunder Wave / Recover

I was a big advocate of SpecsMie this season. Many offensive teams love the utility Starmie brings, but hate the standard 3a spin set's utter uselessness against defense. With Specs, you have the choice to either blast through bulky stuff with Hydro Pump or cripple something with Trick. The powerful Hydro Pump in conjunction with its Speed means offense has a tough time switching into it as well. I don't think Spin is a waste on it at all - enabling its teammates the way it does is half the reason to use it, imo.


Staross (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Psychic and Thunder Wave are both incredibly important on bulky Starmie. Whenever I used to use one, I would miss the other. So, I ditched Hydro/Surf. It might seem sacrilegious to use Mie without Water STAB, but it really does just take up a moveslot more often than not - it barely dinks its intended targets, targets that you'd rather use Spin/TWave in a 1v1 most of the time anyway, targets which your other teammates will be able to handle (since it's not like you should rely on Mie to counter stuff). This set allows it to act as terrific paralysis support for its teammates without being a complete sitting duck against Pokemon you do not want to give free turns to - Breloom and Roserade. Psychic OHKOing Gengar also means it can't pull any spinblocking tricks on you, and the supereffective hit on Machamp is valuable as well. This is the only bulky Starmie I've used for a long time, and I never found myself wanting to put a Water move on it. Max Speed to outrun Scarf Magnezone.


Royal Blue (Empoleon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off

More or less unwallable; the few things too bulky for its excellent coverage will get ruined by Knock. Can be EVed in many different ways (HP, Def, SpA, SpDef, Spe). A great set for turning Emp's unique, useful defensive profile into offensive pressure no matter what the opponent's response is.


Frances Ha (Roserade) (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Natural Cure / Poison Point
Bold Nature
- Spikes
- Sleep Talk
- Sludge Bomb / Grass Knot / Energy Ball / HP Fire
- HP Fire / Sludge Bomb / Rest / nothing

Despite resisting Breloom's STABs, Rose is too naturally frail to switch into them. It doesn't become a perfect, game-long counter or anything with Bold and Defense investment, but it gets the job done a couple times, which is all you should count on it for, and really all that is needed by the teams using Rose to begin with. The permanent effect of Spikes makes it arguably the best move you can pull from ST, as opposed to the likely nothing of the tier's other Sleep Talkers, both in terms of damage dished out and in terms of being able to check Loom at all. (This is also why I don't like TSPikes on this set - they do nothing against Loom). Switching into Breloom is immensely difficult for many teams due to how disruptive Spore is, and this Rose allows you to keep going without missing a beat.


Irene (Roserade) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Leaf Storm
- Toxic Spikes / Sludge Bomb / Weather Ball
- HP Ice / Sludge Bomb / Weather Ball

Scarf Roserade is excellent - as a lead, on Toxic Spikes teams, in general. The Scarf lets you get the jump on the common Azelf and Jirachi leads that would otherwise thwart your lead attempts. Incidentally, you can consider not even risking sleep against Azelf, and instead choose to eviscerate it with a Modest Leaf Storm. Running Scarf on Rose also opens up its TSpikes teammates beautifully by freeing one of them of the obligation to run Scarf, allowing them to run more dangerous sets and thus having a more overwhelming offensive attack. With its strength, Speed and good resists, it's a good midgame Pokemon, able to switch in against Waters and Electrics - this is what allows it to set up TSpikes midgame, after all - while revenge killing a significant portion of fast Pokemon. You can even bolster its coverage if you feel like you're not getting much mileage out of TS. If you have sand, give Weather Ball a try - it's strong and has great coverage against a lot of Pokemon Roserade faces off against.


Regina George (Roserade (F) @ Black Sludge / Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
- Spikes
- HP Ground / HP Fire / HP Ice
- Sludge Bomb / Toxic Spikes
- Grass Knot / Sludge Bomb

There are traditionally two types of midgame Roserade; the bulky set, which runs Spikes (and also TSpikes sometimes, but always Spikes), and the offensive set, which is basically the lead Focus Sash set with Sleep Powder and Toxic Spikes - it just exchanges its Sash for Black Sludge. This was my attempt at a true offensive Spiker, which DPP doesn't really have. By this I mean a Spiker that is also threatening, not just a fast Skarmory or Sash dual hazards Rose.

When Rose uses Spikes, it gives up being able to use Sleep Powder or Leaf Storm. Thus, the offense on this Rose comes not just from its power and Speed, but from the extra coverage it gains - just like STalk Rose, I think this set loses efficacy if you go dual hazards. Rose can already be quite annoying with two offensive moves; with three, it becomes an actual threat - it's tough for a many offensive teams to switch into it unscathed, especially because most Pokemon that can hit it hard are slower than it. This set isn't quite Greninja, but I think it has its place - if you don't truly need Rose to be tanky, you can use this, which allows Rose to maintain pressure itself while still laying down those all-important Spikes.

Both Black Sludge and Scarf work here - I prefer BS for longevity against opposing attacks and flexibility in firing off its own, but a Scarfer that can lay down Spikes is really, really sweet on some teams.


I really like Metagross on TSpikes/specially offensive Spikes teams. The set hardly even matters - its physical bulk and physical muscle are a fantastic complement to the more specially-oriented Pokemon on those teams. Scarf and Iron Ball are my favorites, as their Trick cripples opposing defenses, making it more difficult for them to divide and conquer. ScarfGross is particularly awesome because, like with ScarfRose, it means you don't have to waste the Scarf on your hazard-abusing special attackers. It also makes a fantastic Stealth Rocker on such teams, and the hazards synergize nicely with the Agility set as well; this also has the benefit of surprise factor, which makes an already terrifying set even scarier.


Weaver (Heatran) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Hasty / Mild Nature
- Stealth Rock / Fire Blast
- Explosion
- Fire Blast / Magma Storm / Hidden Power Ice / Toxic / Earth Power
- Hidden Power Ice / Toxic / Earth Power / Magma Storm / Overheat

For several years, Scarf was far and away the most popular Heatran set. It then disappeared off the face of the earth for its inability to deal with paralysis Jirachi sets. I have started liking it again, though, as Tran provides excellent role compression for TSpikes offense - it is a specially offensive Choice Scarfer that can still wallbreak, as it lures in and destroys special walls with Explosion. You don't have to blow up as soon as you switch it in or anything - you can pick your spot midgame and ensure you nail it your target. There's no downside, as you won't need ScarfTran's Speed against defensive teams. Unlike Latias and Rotom, who would attempt to do something similar with Trick, Tran does not fear a premature Pursuit trap from Tyranitar. If anything, ScarfTran will make your Specs Latias' Trick even more devastating!

This is already immensely useful, but the role compression doesn't end there, as Tran can and often should also be your SR user. This means none of your other Pokemon have to SR, or Scarf, allowing them to run their most threatening sets, AND Tran is also helping wallbreak for them.

Finally, though it's tough to decide what moves to run, Tran can make itself and its teammates even harder to deal with without needing to blow up by also packing Toxic. Magma Storm's extra 6.25% and removing the opponent's ability to double switch is not as direct, but can set up similarly threatening scenarios. Mild's extra power is awesome if you can handle DDers, especially with Overheat as the last move.


Sandalphon (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Hasty Nature
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
- Substitute
- Protect
- Explosion
- Lava Plume

SubProtect Tran (with or without Torment) is awesome - it chokes out tons of teams. However, sometimes it runs into frustrating scenarios against defensive teams where it's not as threatening as you'd like it to be. Sub boom Tran is awesome - it beautifully abuses such assumptions that a Subbing Tran won't be able to dish out such heavy damage; it's great against defense but can also be a nasty surprise against several offensive Pokes. However, losing Protect is rough - it's great for scouting/longevity without a Sub up, and makes Sub even more absurd. This set allows you to have your cake and eat it too - massively threatening in all situations. Of course, you need to handle opposing Tran, but that's true of several great Heatran sets already, such as SpDef SR boom and the aforementioned TormenTran. EVs are somewhat flexible.


Offret (Heatran) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Hasty / Mild Nature
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
- Explosion / Taunt

Resist berries are nice, but this is a forgotten terror. Incredibly hard to wall. Doesn't mind losing HP Grass when paired with SpikesRade.


Wardance (Gengar) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Will-O-Wisp
- Explosion

Boom Gar is wonderful for taking down bulky targets like Waters and Flyers if you can ensure bulky Steels aren't going to get in your way; hence, WoW. Black Sludge gives the boom surprise factor, ensuring you nail your target.


Leliel (Gengar) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Taunt
- Explosion

Many players have become accustomed to eating non-LO Shadow Balls and Focus Blasts, and this set is a harsh reminder of just how strong Gar can be. LO boom is seriously powerful as well. However, the problem that led to LO Gar falling out of favor - Wish Protect Jirachi - is still quite present, so you can't just recklessly throw the old SubSplit variant on a team. Fortunately, those bulky Rachis have shifted to physical Defense as a response to Breloom - as has Skarmory - so Gar can now threaten them with greater ease. However, even physdef Rachi can handle 2 LO Gar SBalls...in a vacuum. It's forced to Wish after it switches into SBall - thus, Gar Taunts, and can then switch out and come back later, where Rachi will no longer be able to check it (especially since that Taunt will prevent it from Protecting for extra Lefties), or can simply go for the 2HKO from there if you don't mind eating an Iron Head. Taunt is similarly useful for stifling a Milotic Recover, meaning you can (later) break through it without needing to boom - and of course, if you're low on health and need to take Milo out, you can. Essentially, this set aims to remove the downsides of using LO Gar without relying on Magnezone or Explosion. It works quite well without Spikes, but becomes an absolute menace with them.

@ Wide Lens
Absolutely serious. Tran's item flexibility is well-known, and being able to actually land Fire Blasts, Magma Storms and Will-o-Wisps is useful as hell. We used a set of SR / FBlast / WoW / Boom in SPL and it was great. That's just one example; you can definitely use Magma > FB there and/or ditch SR/Boom for Taunt, Earth Power and so on. Gar can definitely afford to lose Black Sludge, especially with how much scarier it gets if it actually hits WoW and Focus Blast. You can even potentially justify Hypnosis in the last slot.


Atomic Raindance (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SpA / 248 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump

I adore this set. Not only does it clear weather, it does so by making itself more threatening. Excellent alongside Roserade and Suicune.


Андрей (Flygon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: varying Attack / 252 SpA
Rash / Mild Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage

I think +SpA is essential on MixGon. Its Speed is still excellent against offense, and it needs every bit of power it can get to threaten defensive teams. Outrage ensures it remains threatening even at -2 SpA, and is often key in allowing Gon to finish off bulky Pokemon that'd otherwise heal in its face. It often doesn't need max Speed and absolutely loves Attack EVs, which also allow its Earthquake to actually threaten KOs against its targets.


Рублёв (Flygon) @ Leftovers / Soft Sand
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Toxic

I've seen others experiment with bulky Flygon, and tried it myself, but never liked it - I found it to be a worse Gliscor in just about every way. However, I do think there is merit to two Toxic Gon sets. The first is to use it as the 4th move on Scarf - it's legit. The second is to switch the Scarf for Leftovers and Outrage for Dragon Claw. With Zone, Pursuit and Toxic, it's difficult to truly counter. You don't need to make Gon bulky for Toxic to work on it - this set is offensively threatening as hell, since you can't abuse its STABs by forcing it to lock into one of them; it can instead use those STABs freely, which reveals just how dangerous they are, especially with EV investment.

Roost is an option, but I've never bothered because I find U-turn too good on it - it adds another dimension to the threat Gon can pose (taking advantage of forced switches, safely dinking defensive answers while denying double switch attempts). The closest thing to a true answer this Gon (+ Zone + Pursuit) has is Leech Breloom, and that's why it pairs so beautifully with Sleep Talk Roserade. Restrictive, but incredibly worthwhile.

The item choice is between Lefties' longevity, which works well when trying to outlast with Toxic + repeated U-turns, and Soft Sand, which utterly destroys EQ-weak targets that might otherwise barely live while also slamming Waters and Clef really hard. Even bulky Loom doesn't like taking it with hazards and sand, especially with the followup U-turn. Though I don't think it's required, I particularly like Soft Sand alongside Wish Clef or Rachi.

As for EVs, Lefties sets can consider running 36 Defense to always live a +2 Lucario ExtremeSpeed and CB Tyranitar Crunch from full, or 88 Defense to live both after SR.


SymphonyOfSickness (Breloom) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Toxic

There are a few different ways to run Toxic on Breloom. I liked slotting it over Spore on a Mach Superpower set; with Zone dealing with Skarmory and Jirachi, Loom would then be utterly ruinous to Latias Gliscor balances. It also cripples Zapdos. I also enjoyed Toxic on a Leech Seed Protect variant, using Sky Uppercut as the Fighting STAB to ensure Bold Clef was 2HKOed. Both great sets that continue to prove Loom doesn't need Spore. Ban Spore.


Moondawn (Jirachi) @ Choice Band / Iron Plate
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn / Stealth Rock
- Trick / Body Slam / Thunder
- Fire Punch

Jirachi's Iron Head is the most terrifying attack in the tier, even with zero investment. With hazards, it puts the opponent on a timer, as their Pokemon capable of withstanding the move won't last forever. I've loved Adamant Jirachi in the past, as it makes that timer tick faster, and this set is an extension of that concept; losing Leftovers sucks, but it's manageable, and boosted Iron Heads are worth the effort - their power is terrifying. When Waters like Swampert and Suicune are taking upwards of 23% from a CB Iron Head, things can get hairy fast. Most flinch-focused Jirachi are also not very good against stall, but with this set you unleash a Trick and suddenly you've crippled something; it's generally a useful move.

The Iron Plate variant doesn't have the power or the wall-crippling ability of CB, but it's still quite strong, and the flexibility is quite useful, especially since you can slot SR on it.


Vajrabhairava (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Zen Headbutt
- Fire Punch
- Body Slam / Thunder

Zen Headbutt's extra coverage can make FlinchRachi even tougher to counter. It's no Iron Head, but it's just as strong, and its flinch rate is still quite high, even with its imperfect accuracy. The reason isn't just to have a second flinch option, though; the secondary STAB provides some really useful coverage against some of Rachi's common answers used for their Iron Head resistance:

252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Swampert: 132-156 (32.6 - 38.6%)
252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 106-126 (26.2 - 31.1%)
252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%)
252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 84-99 (27.6 - 32.5%)
252+ Atk Jirachi Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 96-114 (25 - 29.7%)

You're not going to be flinching these out from full or anything, but the window they have to stave Rachi off closes a lot more quickly when it can hit them for such big damage, especially with hazards in the picture. It's useful in many scenarios - it hits Breloom and Machamp a lot harder and even chips Heatran and Empoleon switchins (alongside hazards) a lot more than Iron Head would.


Grandeur of Hair (Mesprit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold or Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Healing Wish
- 2 of Thunder Wave / U-turn / Knock Off / Psychic / Imprison

Functions like Uxie on paralysis/bulky offense teams, but with the crucial benefit of Healing Wish, which allows its battered teammates to make a final push down the stretch - those teams tend to suffer from being worn down before they can seal the deal, and HW can really turn the tables. Nothing like having to face a second Machamp.


Sachiel (Swampert) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: lots of HP / 252 Atk / a little Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Protect

Offensive Pert is excellent, but sometimes takes hits a little worse than it'd like; with Protect, this is an issue no more. By grabbing every bit of extra health it can, it becomes even more terrifying. Scouting stuff like Specs Latias is excellent as well. It's easy to fit Stealth Rock on other Pokemon. Make sure you can handle Skarmory (Zone is good, not required) and you're good to go.


Help I'm a Rock (Rhyperior) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Punch

Swords Dance is threatening, but I've always preferred Ice Punch's coverage on Rhyperior - being able to immediately threaten Gliscor and Breloom is too important to pass up. As long as you are able to handle Skarmory and Bronzong, I much prefer this set. I also find EVing to outrun Clef a waste, especially when it's so easy to paralyze it. With this spread, the Sub survives Clef's Ice Beam in sand while maintaining as many HP EVs as possible to shrug off physical attacks. Pairs beautifully with the TWave Psychic Starmie.


SorryToBotherYou (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD OR 248 HP / 140 Def / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Bold / Timid Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Toxic Spikes / Sludge Bomb
- Surf

Tenta has a great niche over Starmie on hazard-focused teams; it passes up Mie's longevity between Recover and Natural Cure for a more aggressive approach. Knock Off is as crippling as ever, especially against Clef, while also absorbing and setting TSpikes. Not fearing Tyranitar's Pursuit is also great. If TSpikes aren't doing much, Sludge Bomb is great for helping against Loom. Knock and the TS absorption are still really effective, especially in games Starmie would just be dead weight against Clef. The SpDef survives Specs Latias' Draco Meteor with SR and sand.


Italian Spiderman (Gliscor) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Night Slash

Offensive SD Gliscor is highly dangerous and made even more threatening by Night Slash; it's crucial for bulky Rotom and Latias, who are not easy to Pursuit. Absolutely needs the power of Adamant. Great set for various types of offense.


Nostalghia (Venusaur) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 248 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Sludge Bomb
- Leaf Storm

Venusaur, like Shaymin, was almost singlehandedly knocked out of the metagame by Clefable. However, Venusaur, unlike Shaymin, can reliably threaten Clef thanks to Knock Off. (It works particularly well if you can threaten a Pursuit on it with Tyranitar afterwards.)

Knock not only allows Venu to actually make use of Leech Seed, but gives it its niche over Roserade, crippling not just Clef, but also Pokemon like Heatran, Jirachi and bulky Latias more effectively than Rose's Spikes (especially with a potential SBomb poison for Lati), thus more easily allowing the likes of CM Jirachi to sweep lategame. Another advantage Venu has over Rose is its far superior physical bulk, letting it act as a solid Breloom check.

The SpA is important to pressure Clef. Speed outruns Milotic and ResTalk Rotom. The HP and Defense EVs ensure that Venu will always survive +1 Gyarados Ice Fang after SR without dying to sand afterwards; even without SR, that Ice Fang will always put Venu into Overgrow range, allowing Venu to blast it back with Leaf Storm.


Sound of Metal (Bronzong) @ Choice Band
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Explosion

As great as Trick Room Zong is, it sometimes finds it hard to sweep or set up CBTar, a problem which is exacerbated by the fact it doesn't want to sustain damage early on for fear of hindering that sweep attempt later on. This often feels like a waste of Zong's great defensive utility. There's also Zong's problem of not being threatening against defense. Trick CB is a great set that can get in the thick of action early on, making the most of its defense while still posing an offensive threat with its powerful attacks and defense-crippling capability of Trick, the latter of which is particularly ruinous to the bulky teams that would otherwise be its bane; once it's neutered a wall, it can hang back as its team takes advantage of the opponent's compromised defenses, then come back when given the opportunity to get a boom off.
 
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