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Tournament Doubles World Cup III - Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ryo yamada2001
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I could stand with 6 slots, but this doesn't make any sense, I know pretty good players that wouldn't be picked or even considered if Italy will play joined with Europe.
Z Strats
Banned deucer.
8 teams seems like a no brainer, a bye week for first seed is super awful. Last year Canada didnt get to play for a whole month last year due to tiebreaks, and 8 teams worked super well in dwcop 1 I feel like this should never be changed.
I also think that we should heavily try for 8 slots if it's at all possible. Wcop tours get way more signups than other tours (and this is gonna be a brand new gen which should boost signups) and they seem like a good way to build the playerbase and give more players a shot. Yes some teams will benefit more than others but that's wcop tours in a nutshell they will never be "fair" on paper, if we wanted a fair dwcop where every team has an equal chance on paper we might as well make the tour 1 slot. I also think people are way too quick to discredit more unproven dou players in tours like dwcop. In dwcop 1 when it was 6 slots there wasn't really any breakout stars due to most of the pool being very known players, but dwcop 2 you had players like Enzonana, Chloe and Xrn get their first big shot in a dou tour and they all went positive and all of them still play DOU.
The region that seems the most against 8 slots seems to be Europe because they feel with Italy getting their own team they won't have enough players that could field a competitive team, but I don't think this would be the case at all. In dwcop 1 Europe was even more screwed due to not only having no Italian players but also most of the Spanish players thanks to team Mediterranean being a thing. Europe ended up slotting in two more unknown/unproven players on their team in Sakura and k8sm both of which had 2-2 records and performed fine (k8sm was also in a stacked pool beating umbry and kiichikos). Europe that tour also had tonyflygon a user who has performed well in dou tours before on the bench so despite getting a lot of their good players taken away they were able to make it work. Now obviously dwcop 1 was only six slots but taking away spain takes away users like JRL, SMB, and Tenzai so I think it's comparable.
Going into dwcop 2 Europe got to create a team that was on paper a super team, yes they underperformed but on paper that team is super broken. Their team was always going to look worse with a new European region being added but that doesn't mean it's going to be bad or even perform worse than the team they had last year. Just off the top of my head potential Europe starters if they all signup are: jrl, smb, tenzai, yoda, frania, toby, givrix, lily (top cut osdt, good singles player), michaelderbeste (same as lily), and Tony. This is not even close to being a bad 8 slot team and can easily perform really well and honestly might be one of the favourites. Now obviously those players have to actually sign up and we will never be able to confirm 6 or 8 slots until signups but I really don't see Europe being a big issue for 8 slots at all, my biggest concern would be APAC but they got enough for 8 slots last year and have gotten slightly bigger so should be fine there too. I see no reason going with 6 slots unless signups are quite dire which would be concerning for a team tour at the start of a brand new gen.
tldr; This tour gets more signups and is a more for fun and uneven tour by nature of it being a region locked tour, make it 8 teams 8 slots so it's not just the same players in every team tour because a lot of these considered middling or unproven players could be a breakout hit as seen last year. Also Europe can easily field 8 slots.
I also think that we should heavily try for 8 slots if it's at all possible. Wcop tours get way more signups than other tours (and this is gonna be a brand new gen which should boost signups) and they seem like a good way to build the playerbase and give more players a shot. Yes some teams will benefit more than others but that's wcop tours in a nutshell they will never be "fair" on paper, if we wanted a fair dwcop where every team has an equal chance on paper we might as well make the tour 1 slot. I also think people are way too quick to discredit more unproven dou players in tours like dwcop. In dwcop 1 when it was 6 slots there wasn't really any breakout stars due to most of the pool being very known players, but dwcop 2 you had players like Enzonana, Chloe and Xrn get their first big shot in a dou tour and they all went positive and all of them still play DOU.
The region that seems the most against 8 slots seems to be Europe because they feel with Italy getting their own team they won't have enough players that could field a competitive team, but I don't think this would be the case at all. In dwcop 1 Europe was even more screwed due to not only having no Italian players but also most of the Spanish players thanks to team Mediterranean being a thing. Europe ended up slotting in two more unknown/unproven players on their team in Sakura and k8sm both of which had 2-2 records and performed fine (k8sm was also in a stacked pool beating umbry and kiichikos). Europe that tour also had tonyflygon a user who has performed well in dou tours before on the bench so despite getting a lot of their good players taken away they were able to make it work. Now obviously dwcop 1 was only six slots but taking away spain takes away users like JRL, SMB, and Tenzai so I think it's comparable.
Going into dwcop 2 Europe got to create a team that was on paper a super team, yes they underperformed but on paper that team is super broken. Their team was always going to look worse with a new European region being added but that doesn't mean it's going to be bad or even perform worse than the team they had last year. Just off the top of my head potential Europe starters if they all signup are: jrl, smb, tenzai, yoda, frania, toby, givrix, lily (top cut osdt, good singles player), michaelderbeste (same as lily), and Tony. This is not even close to being a bad 8 slot team and can easily perform really well and honestly might be one of the favourites. Now obviously those players have to actually sign up and we will never be able to confirm 6 or 8 slots until signups but I really don't see Europe being a big issue for 8 slots at all, my biggest concern would be APAC but they got enough for 8 slots last year and have gotten slightly bigger so should be fine there too. I see no reason going with 6 slots unless signups are quite dire which would be concerning for a team tour at the start of a brand new gen.
tldr; This tour gets more signups and is a more for fun and uneven tour by nature of it being a region locked tour, make it 8 teams 8 slots so it's not just the same players in every team tour because a lot of these considered middling or unproven players could be a breakout hit as seen last year. Also Europe can easily field 8 slots.
hanging out in hell with team philippines
We have found 12 Chinese players. Can the Chinese team be established?
Crunchman
Banned deucer.
That’s probably the bare bare minimum, ideally there’s a couple more; all still up to the host decision, regions will probably be locked a bit after signups start and will be based on how signups look.
I agree with 8 teams, I think byes are lame and kill team momentum.
I’d also prefer if we did 8 starter slots, I think we’ll get the signups for it based on the impressive number of signups we’ve already received for the SV kickoff tournament. Most regions should be able to field 8 quality starters, but even so part of the fun of dwcop is possibly introducing one or two players that normally wouldn’t get a starting role and helping them prep and watching them succeed. From my experience managing a team, that was one of the most rewarding parts.
I also think pools of 5 is fine, 4 games spread over two weeks shouldn’t be too bad. I think we should try to require that every player completes at least 2 games the first week so that we can prevent too much johning, and keep interest in the tour high.
I’d also prefer if we did 8 starter slots, I think we’ll get the signups for it based on the impressive number of signups we’ve already received for the SV kickoff tournament. Most regions should be able to field 8 quality starters, but even so part of the fun of dwcop is possibly introducing one or two players that normally wouldn’t get a starting role and helping them prep and watching them succeed. From my experience managing a team, that was one of the most rewarding parts.
I also think pools of 5 is fine, 4 games spread over two weeks shouldn’t be too bad. I think we should try to require that every player completes at least 2 games the first week so that we can prevent too much johning, and keep interest in the tour high.
Depending on signups, a Chinese team is a possibility. But you would all be eligible for team APAC even if that’s not possible.
+ ur mixtape really is trash
Give Argentina to APAC pls
I hope I can get into Europe this time around, last time I had to join Emma´s team as a sub xd.
RE: Christmas weekend
As has been pointed out and briefly discussed in the Doubles Discord, part of this World Cup falls on the Christmas weekend. Our initial plan was to start the first round on the 5th of December, lasting for two weeks until the 18th. The semifinals would then fall on the 24th & 25th, which is obviously unfeasible.
There's a couple of possible solutions:
A) Extend semifinals and finals by half a week; the semis from 19th-28th and finals from 29th to January 8th
B) Extend semifinals by a week and keep finals one week; the semis from 19th to January 1st and finals from January 2nd to January 8th
C) Extend signups by a week; pools starting from the 12th and semis from the 26th. This allows managers to finalize rosters and the metagame to stabilize through quickbans, with the possible downside that teams built in this period could deprecate immediately
We would like to hear in this thread what the community prefers and if there are other possible solutions around this awkward holiday timing.
As has been pointed out and briefly discussed in the Doubles Discord, part of this World Cup falls on the Christmas weekend. Our initial plan was to start the first round on the 5th of December, lasting for two weeks until the 18th. The semifinals would then fall on the 24th & 25th, which is obviously unfeasible.
There's a couple of possible solutions:
A) Extend semifinals and finals by half a week; the semis from 19th-28th and finals from 29th to January 8th
B) Extend semifinals by a week and keep finals one week; the semis from 19th to January 1st and finals from January 2nd to January 8th
C) Extend signups by a week; pools starting from the 12th and semis from the 26th. This allows managers to finalize rosters and the metagame to stabilize through quickbans, with the possible downside that teams built in this period could deprecate immediately
We would like to hear in this thread what the community prefers and if there are other possible solutions around this awkward holiday timing.
Personally I would like choice C, since the game just came out, I would like as much time as possible to play the game before I can build a team and before the pools start.
Z Strats
Banned deucer.
I like B best. Most people are most available on the weekends so extending semis and finals by half a week doesn't help as much and most people wont be available for the second weekend of pools since it's the christmas weekend which can make scheduling a pain and makes pools effectively a week/week and a half long for some people.
I feel the opposite way, I would prefer that option C wasn´t chosen as I do better on chaotic metas.
I think C is the best，and my opinion is the same to fangame10，since the game just came out, I would like as much time as possible to play the game before I can build a team and before the pools start.
i hope that dwcop can be a round every week , because we students could only play on weekends(I am a poor Chinese student)
A and C to me are complete no-goes when B is on the table. For A, half a week is just a really awkward time due to the weekend still being unreasonable for some and others (albeit a fewer amount) might still be doing something involving their holidays for part of those 3 days. I don't really see a reason to go for this over just a full week ngl. Surely the extra four days won't throw that much off, if anything.
C just doesn't solve the issue with playing on the 24th and 25th I feel: Pools will still end then, which cuts off that weekend as a viable option to play on. It's very easy to say that people can just play earlier but I don't think removing a whole weekend as a playable date is really what we should do (and there are no technicalities here, expecting people to consider playing on those two dates is entirely unreasonable). If people can't play during the week then that makes it so they have to play three Bo1s in a single weekend, which is nuts. It helping stuff settle down a bit is legit but I don't think it'll be worth it as opposed to making semifinals 2 weeks.
come on down to the US Central discord at high noon, cowboy https://discord.gg/k5Vg3YTKgx
Crunchman
Banned deucer.
Come chill with the best coast
https://discord.gg/pRaeDpFK
https://discord.gg/pRaeDpFK
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