Metagame Doubles UU

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n10siT

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Sorry for triple posting

I'm going to dump some teams here, hopefully it will be helpful. I want to be clear though, build your own stuff if you can. The meta won't go anywhere if everyone just uses what me and lord death man say is good lol

https://pokepast.es/36a358757062277b - Ninetales Hydreigon offense

https://pokepast.es/03ebbcb1cb68f5b3 - D Dance Haxorus offense

https://pokepast.es/7e6c54ded51e9255 - Frosmoth offense

https://pokepast.es/6fee1e91995bfa5b - CM/Acid Armor Alcremie


https://pokepast.es/bde03c5d0bced52f - lord death man NP Rotom-H

https://pokepast.es/44e27feeb4d2be4f - lord deaht man sun
 
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n10siT

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We have a long list of changes thanks to the DLC:

Weezing-Galar moved from DUU to DOU
Indeedee moved from DUU to DOU
Rillaboom moved from DUU to DOU
Porygon2 moved from DUU to DOU
Cinderace moved from DUU to DOU

Blissey moved from DOU to DUU
Bouffalant moved from DOU to DUU
Clawitzer moved from DOU to DUU
Dedenne moved from DOU to DUU
Dragalge moved from DOU to DUU
Druddigon moved from DOU to DUU
Dunsparce moved from DOU to DUU
Emolga moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor moved from DOU to DUU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Exploud moved from DOU to DUU
Golduck moved from DOU to DUU
Grimmsnarl moved from DOU to DUU
Heracross moved from DOU to DUU
Kangaskhan moved from DOU to DUU
Klefki moved from DOU to DUU
Krookodile moved from DOU to DUU
Lickilicky moved from DOU to DUU
Lilligant moved from DOU to DUU
Lopunny moved from DOU to DUU
Ludicolo moved from DOU to DUU
Lurantis moved from DOU to DUU
Luxray moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc-Dusk moved from DOU to DUU
Lycanroc-Midnight moved from DOU to DUU
Magnezone moved from DOU to DUU
Marowak moved from DOU to DUU
Mienshao moved from DOU to DUU
Miltank moved from DOU to DUU
Palossand moved from DOU to DUU
Pinsir moved from DOU to DUU
Poliwrath moved from DOU to DUU
Porygon-Z moved from DOU to DUU
Rotom-Wash moved from DOU to DUU
Sandslash moved from DOU to DUU
Sandslash-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Scolipede moved from DOU to DUU
Sharpedo moved from DOU to DUU
Skarmory moved from DOU to DUU
Slowbro moved from DOU to DUU
Slowbro-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Slowking moved from DOU to DUU
Starmie moved from DOU to DUU
Stoutland moved from DOU to DUU
Talonflame moved from DOU to DUU
Tangrowth moved from DOU to DUU
Tauros moved from DOU to DUU
Tentacruel moved from DOU to DUU
Terrakion moved from DOU to DUU
Wigglytuff moved from DOU to DUU
Zoroark moved from DOU to DUU

On the rises: All 5 of the Pokemon leaving were very solid in DUU, Rillaboom quite possibly being a tier one mon in the short time it was here. I am a bit surprised by the Cinderace risse, but I believe it's just new toy syndrome because people think Protean is broken, and I expect to fall again at some point. The other 4, with the exception of maybe Porygon2, could stay DOU for a long time.

On the drops: I've bolded the relevant ones. Terrakion is a Pokemon that could be very very good in DUU, it has very solid matchups versus the dominant dark-types Hydreigon and to a lesser extent Bisharp. Talonflame has potential to be good, Rotom-Wash will definitely be good and adds another good water type to a format bloated with them, and Krookodile competes with Mamoswine very well. Lilligant adds a decent sun abuser, but I'm not sure how good sun is.

After the completion of the DUU tournament (we'll start when finals go up probably), we plan on redoing the entire VR. So much has changed in the past few months that it is necessary.
 

Idyll

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team dump / tour report, kinda! gonna be posting all of the teams i used in duu corona tour, as in all of them. i'll put the old ones with short descriptions in hide tags, and ill be featuring the ones i used in finals which i think are the two legit good ones



These two are pretty much the same team tbh, with different supporting casts. Both are trying to make use of the Keldeo Icy Wind + Assurance Bisharp combo to decimate something, with Rillaboom and Scarf Rotom-H complementing. Dynamic speed control seemed incredibly strong in an offensive, BW-esque meta like DUU so I tried to add as much of these as I can; my Keldeo and Intelleon had Icy Wind while my Scarf Rotom-H had Electroweb, both moves working great with what I was trying to do with Bisharp.

In terms of the specific flavor, double water double dark takes advantage of the best Pokemon in the tier at the time typestacking when used in conjunction with one another (the two Waters were strong individually, Bisharp was a demon, and Hydreigon was (is?) imo the best Pokemon in the tier); since the concept was offensive anyway, I just rolled with it and went with just overwhelming threats that attempt to eat hits. noi meanwhile takes advantage of Noivern's ability to set Tailwind relatively unopposed, though if I knew about Ribombee's worth at the time I would've used him. Mamoswine is in the comp as a general good Pokemon.

I used just noi for my Round 2 games vs tennisace; I would've used either for R1 but I got activity vs Pwndkthnx so lol
R2, G1 vs tennisace with double water double dark
R2, G2 vs tennisace with double water double dark



I made this team as a joke, but little did I know that these were the seeds of something truly sinister. The idea was, if sun is good in DOU, it surely must be good in DUU too, right? Whether or not I answered that question is a mystery, but nevertheless I did come up with the idea of abusing Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk in sun and Electric Terrain, thinking it probably killed everything. It does, but the comp itself had room for improvement. I never really worked on this team further though since I never considered using it in an actual tour game, but it did lay the foundation for what's to come.



big d cofag speed swap came up when I was testing with Nido-Rus and his Grassy Seed Cofag ended up impressing me; I genuinely thought it's a strong Pokemon in SemiRoom comps with Rillaboom. What gave the idea true life, though, was the very first instance of genius: Speed Swap Ribombee; while Ribombee was already strong in being able to check Hydreigon, Keldeo, Noivern, and Rillaboom by itself, doing so while being able to support in SemiRoom builds through Tailwind for the fast mode AND Speed Swap for the slow mode was very very epic. While Big D Cofag was a kindasorta threatening set-up attacker / supporter, it was still slow; instead of just leaving it self-reliant and clunky with TR, though, Speed Swap gave the team a kind of dynamism that made Cofag more usable a threat, which gives the team more dimension in its game. SemiRoom comps typically have more slow targets for Speed Swap too (in this case, Gigalith), so it's not a gimmick specific to Cofag but rather an actual, seriously intentioned support move.

I gave the paste to Nido-Rus; he used this six against shadowmonstr7 in R2.


Yeah I basically just wanted to use Rillaboom and Chansey since they're already good in DOU, might as well, and then Cofag + Ribombee was added because it's proven to be good with Rillaboom already. There's... not much to say other than I really was just adding Pokemon and if it made sense to me, then it made sense to me.

:blobshrug:



PsySpam. Started with the Psychic core, added Hydreigon for Speed control and beating Aegislash, added Togetic to eat hits, added Keldeo for beating Chansey and being Keldeo, and added Scarf Rotom-H to check stuff and be cool. Yeah it really doesn't get better than that lol; even the team names are lazy and meaningless so one can tell.

R3, G1 vs txitxas with psychic
R3, G2 vs txitxas with grass

I really somehow managed to not put much effort in my teams despite having a 2-week round with an extension to boot. I, yeah... :blobthinking:
Yeah I'll just with a disclaimer and say these teams aren't necessarily my best, considering I made the first team two hours before the game and the second was just a 4-mon skeleton prior to that. My play also left... a lot to be desired, so fair warning lol



I refuse to associate with a glue-eater like Thwackey anymore, but at the time it seemed like a sensible partnership—plot twist: it was not. I won't explain how I built this since one can easily see where I was going with this; instead, I'm just going to say that 5 Pokemon that can't threaten Aegislash and Mimikyu + Hydreigon is not one of my best ideas, though starting out with Thwackey hard capped this team's ceiling to the floor anyway. A bottom 3 team I ever brought in a serious tour in my career.



Contrary to the name, this team... proved to be brazier than I ever thought it would be. After I built thWACKey, I realized I still needed another team or else I would just get exposed; thankfully, I had the four-mon skelly of Ninetales / Heliolisk / Pincurchin / Vileplume in my builder, ready to be filled up and supported. I just went with the it, since I didn't have much in other ideas and I already knew how this style goes, anyway. I added Terrakion for the Bisharp match-up and put Sub as a 3rd move on it for fun, then I added Fling Liechi Weavile for fun too, considering Z Strats has that one stall team and all; there was no way I could fuck up getting a dynamic +2 on such a strong attacker... right? If you haven't watched the replays for this team, I really hope you just take my word for it.

This was around the time I was going around claiming to be a PU main (still am), and I only realized Pincurchin gets Rising Voltage because I kept getting exposed by it on the PU ladder. I also only realized that Heliolisk actually gets Rising Voltage as well when I connected the dots. I didn't realize it at the time, but this was actually the moment I stumbled upon one of the most demonic Pokemon in current DUU, and it was merely by chance. When I saw it do 59% to a Chansey, that's when the reality of my discovery actually hit me; I knew he had to make a finals appearance, for he might as well be the shock theraphy DUU needs.

Semis, G1 vs Z Strats with thWACKey
Semis, G2 vs Z Strats with garbage
Semis, G3 vs Z Strats with garbage

Of course, garbage was rather... unrefined still. Heliolisk impressed me though, so I went out and thought about the comp some more for Finals.

First off though, I wanna highlight a specific Pokemon which I used a lot that I feel is incredibly underrated and is probably a tier 2-ish, personally tier 1 mon fosho

Ribombee @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Pollen Puff
- Tailwind
- Sticky Web / Speed Swap

This guy is a constant when it comes to my DUU team ideas, thanks to being the best support Pokemon that offensive, slightly balance-y teams could ever ask for. The entire package of Speed, typing, ability, and moves makes it a quite a special Pokemon that can do pretty much anything relatively unopposed.

The high Speed, strong STAB coverage, and respectable Special Attack stat make it a threatening offensive check to threats like Keldeo, Hydreigon, Noivern, Terrakion, and Tangela, among others, and this is outside of the general "check anything as needed" thing that fast mon typically do. More notable is the speed control options on offer; with Speed being dynamic, having access to them on what is essentially the second-fastest Pokemon in the metagame (next to Talonflame) is quite a boon, as it's pretty much instant pressure.

Having both Tailwind and Sticky Web is great, as while immediate Speed control can be brazy, there are also times where the permanent Speed control on grounded Pokemon is preferred for the long haul (and you can always get away with both!). Speed Swap is a tried and true option on SemiRoom comps where the webs can't salvage the slow mons, as being able to extract use of them outside of TR with dynamic Speed can be a game changer; I've tried them with Pincurchin and Gigalith (pre-DLC) and they've bossed up. Fast Puff is also really strong for being able to push teammates out of KO range. All the while, Shield Dust is handy for letting this be virtually unstoppable at lead, among other applications of the ability.

It's a really strong fit on most teams simply due to how well it matches up to the metagame offensively as well as with most teams appreciating what it brings to the table. It only really has to watch out for Talonflame and Aegislash, two things that aren't the hardest in the world to check. I encourage DUU players to consider him more, he's definitely strong for sure and is the goat at exacerbating a team's offensive prowess.

Game 1 // sun hydrei cofag // Chromatica

+n10siT:
he told me he solved sun earlier
+n10siT: unfortunate that he might be right

This team is the final incarnation of a team composition first made as a joke and now since DLC-blessed and made evil. The main core of this is actually Pincurchin / Ninetales / Heliolisk; individually, Pincurchin and Ninetales simply enable Heliolisk, but together they let Heliolisk perform feats such as straight up 2HKOing a Chansey with Rising Voltage. Basically the job of Ninetales and Pincurchin is to come in on the field once and then extract as much value out of themselves as possible; having Terrain Extender and Heat Rock on both means I'm never pressed for time and I can actually destroy something with Heliolisk, more or less.

Pincurchin is good at being a TR check just by existing, but with a certain approach we can also add a random-ass TR mode to the team as well, allowing me to get more juice out of Pincurchin than I should. The starting trio also needs Speed control, as against opposing speed control (something like Talonflame or Hydreigon, maybe) I will find myself exposed. Also I kindasorta am bad versus Terrakion so more options against that is a plus. The combination of Ribombee and Cofagrigus solve these problems and more! While Ribombee checks Terrakion and Hydreigon, it also has Tailwind available; and its Speed Swap means I can activate Pincurchin to Rising Voltage some fool, among other targets... like Cofagrigus! Big D Cofagrigus is in general a good guy to have vs Terrakion, Talonflame, and even Bisharp lol; it has synergy with Electric Seed letting it do this job of taking on these physical attackers easier. Having TR and Iron D + BPress available is also just generally good as an alternate wincon, giving more dimension to the team in general.

This comp had a Vileplume in its two previous incarnations, but it's notably absent here. I felt that I didn't really need a Chloro user; one, I had Ribombee, which is more or less the same thing as speed demon that checks Hydreigon with Moonblast, and two, I would really prefer a Pokemon that consistently beats Aegislash. I did look at the Chlorophyll market, and at one point I had Lilligant here for fun, but really, having a Chloro mon wasn't much of a necessity. Instead, I opted to have Hydreigon, who was actually the best thing I never thought I wanted; while he beats Aegi reliably, he's also another Tailwind setter and a strong glue with all of its resistances and generally useful bulk. Having a Pokemon like this in a team full of hitters eases a lot of the pressure defensively, and on top of that he's really good at adding to the pile offensively; nothing less from what I consider to be a tier 1 Pokemon in the meta rn.

The team is obviously quite aggressive; while Ninetales and Pincurchin are "support" Pokemon in a sense, all they really need to do is get onto the field in a timely manner and then they basically become hitters ready to be sacked for momentum (it helps that they're both threatening in their own right). There's obviously the dynamic of balancing your board with the field conditions, though between Ribombee, Cofagrigus, and Hydreigon, this team is not the easiest to catch out of position. Use Heliolisk if it's time to bring the pain, though just pivoting around with it with VS early- to mid-game is fine as you activate your conditions. Overall, I really like this team, though if anything were changeable, Terrakion over Cofag could be ok in the sense that it's the less deranged pick.

Game 2 // max speed aegislash // E. Hero Fusion Monsters

I honestly don't know how I built this team exactly, as it felt like I had the first 5 Pokemon for step 1 then added a Tangela for fun. They do all somehow synergize with one another though, so that's nice!

Ribombee makes this comp really epic; the immediate Speed control is really dangerous with all these strong hitters, while a team of grounded Pokemon can be outpositioned and punished with Sticky Webs (as it did in the Game I used it in). It having a strong match-up vs a lot of things is generally good™ for offensive teams such as this, too. Aegislash and Hydreigon is a tried and true core, Terrakion is a tier 1 Pokemon rn, and Gyarados is decent. Tangela is there for no reason, redirecting stuff I want redirected, and switching in on Talonflame (no, really). This team is basically just goodstuffs, but the epicness comes in the sets.

As one can see in the title, it's max Speed Aegislash; if you haven't checked the import yet, it's 252 Spe Hasty Aegislash, with Close Combat. While this may seem opposite to general sensibilities when it comes to Aegislash, there are reasons for this. First, from personal experience running Aegislash all these years, I have come to the conclusion that slow Aegislash is hot garbage as trying to tank and spank often ends in pain and disappointment. Second, it's really epic with Sticky Web, with max Speed outrunning webbed 108s. Third, and most importantly, it outruns Adamant Bisharp by one point, and you'd have to be deranged to Sucker Punch an Aegislash without speed control; I really value getting this surprise KO, especially since it's for finals, it's for all the marbles, and Mishi has Keldeo + Bisharp in his arsenal. I guess it also helps in the mirror as well, as you can play that match-up like a dick.

The other notable set is DD Moxie Gyarados. I've kept going on about this set since the dawn of time when it comes to running Gyara in SS DUU, so it's time to practice what I preach. I felt like I didn't really need the luxury of Intimidate much, the targets were Terrakion (2x weak) and Bisharp (lol) there wasn't much in terms of opposing Intim anyway (Gyara beats Arc and Krook too), so I might as well be snowbally. Normal Gem DEdge means I can push for KOs against stuff that resist Waterfall; just having that ability to pick off Roserade, Hydreigon, and Rotom-W at higher ranges than usual is great not only for punching holes but also for nabbing Moxie boosts. With DD and Tangela, the team has a win-the-game option, if not just another way to pin the likes of opposing Terrakion and Keldeo; it doesn't really need the DD to win though, as Sticky Webs can suffice, and Gyara showed it in the actual game itself, bossing up for 4 KOs. That was a gamer moment.

In terms of weaknesses... I don't know, really! Just having a Ribombee does that I guess! Well fr though Talonflame is mabes annoying but definitely outplayable. The Gyara item could be Silk Scarf or LO or something lol, Normal Gem ain't that cool ig, i was informed that Gem was nerfed after posting which I forgot lmfao that's a gamer moment edit: i also just realized it's protect aegislash looool i'd replace that if you were planning to steal this

That's all gamer
 
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n10siT

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Hello! I have a lot of news to cover today. First off, please welcome Memoric to the VR council! He won the coronation tour that involved basically 2 different metagames, and he's a known user with DUU VR experience. We're very lucky to add another skilled and knowledgeable player.

Secondly, I want to talk about my current project: redoing the sample sets. The old ones were simply importables with a bunch of slashes and a couple calcs if need be, and I want to have a uniform system that provides some new knowledge, so I came up with this:

[SET NAME]
Fast attacker

[SET]
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Protect

[OTHER EVS]

[REPLACEMENT ITEMS]
Lum Berry
Sitrus Berry

[REPLACEMENT MOVES]
Close Combat - None
Rock Slide - None
Substitute - Stomping Tantrum, Iron Head, Quick Attack, Taunt, Stone Edge
Protect - None

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
Keldeo
Hitmontop
Reuniclus
Gengar
Alcremie
Gothorita
Mimikyu
Jellicent
Bronzong
Aegislash
Ninetales-Alola
Cofagrigus
Tangela

[GOOD TEAMMATES]
Krookodile
Gyarados
Mimikyu
Noivern
Gengar
Bisharp
Grimmsnarl
Hydreigon
Mandibuzz
Weavile
Ribombee
Rotom-Mow
Aegislash
Talonflame


The new sample sets have an easy to import, no slash set. Listed below are alternative EV spreads, along with replacement items and moves. Below that is a computer generated (plus any obvious ones the algorithm misses and I add manually) list of checks and counters and good teammates. The checks and counters are Pokemon that have favorable one on one matchups, and the good teammates are Pokemon that have favorable one on one matchups versus the given list of checks and counters. These are by no means perfect lists, as I said they are computer generated and I'm not a mathematician, so you may see something questionable on there. I hope to have all of these up soon, but it may take a day or two.

If you see anything on the set that you disagree with, post in this thread or PM me on discord (n10sit#4610). I will gladly make changes based on community input.

Lastly, we have a new VR!!! Thanks to all of the hard work from the DUU VR council, we've finally got an updated and relevant viability rankings. You may see the third post in this thread for the VR, and I will leave our voting here.

Pokemonn10siTtalkingtreelord death manYuichiDemantoidMemoricResult
Aegislash1121222
Alcremie5555555
Araquanid5555555
Arcanine2222222
Bisharp4344334
Braviary5UR555UR5
Bronzong4555545
ButterfreeURURURURURURUR
Chansey5333333
ClefableURURURURURURUR
Clefairy5UR55545
CobalionURURURURURURUR
Cofagrigus54URURUR45
CopperajahURURURURURURUR
Corsola-GalarUR5URURURURUR
Darmanitan5555555
DracozoltURURURURUR5UR
DragalgeURURURURUR5UR
DrifblimURURURURURURUR
Duraludon5URURURURURUR
Espeon555URURURUR
ExeggutorURURURURURURUR
Exeggutor-AlolaURURURURURURUR
Gengar5444444
Gigalith5555545
Gothorita4455334
Grimmsnarl5334454
Gyarados4455434
Haxorus55UR55UR5
Heliolisk44UR5534
HippowdonURURURURURURUR
Hitmontop5UR45555
Hydreigon2232312
Inteleon3233333
Jellicent3343443
Keldeo2222222
Krookodile3222232
LilligantURURURURURURUR
Lurantis5444544
LuxrayURURURURURURUR
MagnezoneURURURURUR5UR
Mamoswine3333333
MandibuzzUR555555
Mimikyu2343433
Ninetales4444434
Ninetales-Alola4545544
Noivern3333433
ObstagoonURURURURURURUR
OranguruURUR555UR5
Pincurchin5435434
Reuniclus5555UR55
Ribombee3254423
Roserade4454444
Rotom-Heat4454444
Rotom-Mow4544554
Rotom-Wash1121232
Scrafty4444444
ScytherUR5UR5555
Snorlax4444554
Talonflame3343444
Tangela4333323
Terrakion1111111
TogeticURURURURUR5UR
Torracat3444454
ToxapexURURURURUR5UR
Toxitricity5UR555UR5
Tsareena3333343
Vileplume5544555
Wartortle2222222
Weavile4444344
 
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n10siT

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is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU
Tsareena moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU

Pretty insignificant losses, but a lot of interesting drops. Azumarill, unusable in the current DOU metagame dominated by Rillaboom, Psychic Terrain, and Blastoise, could really find a niche here. Darm-G is very very strong, Kyurem has a lot of utility and decent power, and Conkeldurr and Rhyperior are interesting TR additions. We'll have the VR adjusted shortly.
 
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Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU

Pretty insignificant losses, but a lot of interesting drops. Azumarill, unusable in the current DOU metagame dominated by Rillaboom, Psychic Terrain, and Blastoise, could really find a niche here. Darm-G is very very strong, Kyurem has a lot of utility and decent power, and Conkeldurr and Rhyperior are interesting TR additions. We'll have the VR adjusted shortly.
You didn't mention Comfey, I think Comfey can nearly always go first due to triage which makes it useful as a speed controller and fast healer, my guess is for it to be tier 3, or tier 4 due to it being somewhat outplayed by Ribombee
 
Grimmsnarl moved from DUU to DOU
Hawlucha moved from DUU to DOU

Azumarill moved from DOU to DUU
Comfey moved from DOU to DUU
Conkeldurr moved from DOU to DUU
Darmanitan-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Kyurem moved from DOU to DUU
Rhyperior moved from DOU to DUU
with this drops I think neutralizing gas weezing will pop out. Coz it tanks alot of the physical move and can easily burn physical attackers . It also completely bluff azu coz no huge power and sludge bomb will deal super effective damage. And since tsareena just moved up theres no way to stop comfey for spamming draining kiss and i think weezing is a good check for it .
 
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I want to share here this core I've been having fun with. It's a BD Azu core using Follow Me Wartortle and Shadow Tag Gothorita to set Azumarill. Once set up, Azumarill clicks Aqua Jet and destroys most threats in the tier. For the things you don't destroy, Wartortle clicks Follow Me and eats the hit or Gothorita clicks Ally Switch and eats the hit. When you think Azumarill can survive a hit, you can get a Heal Pulse in. There are of course key issues with this set up. It is aggressively cheesy, meaning that once an opponent sees it they can prep for it better and shut down your cheese.

Good partners include Thwackey which can pop off surprisingly well be having a similar job to Rillaboom in DOU and spamming Grassy Glide to hit the grass weak mons in the tier (including opposing Azumarill). Anything that can set Tailwind is also nice so that you don't need to click Aqua Jet continuously.

Of course, the many many people who are better than I can probably either not use this or refine it in a really impressive way. But I think if you're just getting started in the tier, this is a decent core to start with.

That said, I think Azumarill is adorable so I'm always happy to try (and fail) to cheese with it wherever it ends up.

https://pokepast.es/1bd9749854dfb495
 

Lord Death Man

i cant read
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
In response to that somewhat, I have a nomination.

Weezing UR > 5. Neutralizing Gas is good, it sets toxic spikes, and it can haze stuff. It feels more relevant than before right now, so I think its worth ranking.

important calc
+6 252+ Atk Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Weezing: 220-259 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

n10siT

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Hello, exactly one day before we have another usage drop, we have updated the VR. Please direct all complaints to Memoric. In sadder news, talkingtree has decided to step down from the DUU VR council due to his increasingly busy schedule. Thanks for everything you've done for me and for DUU, tree!


Azumarill: NEW -> Tier ???:

  • N10sit: 1 easily lol
  • Talkingtree: 1, I don’t know how to reliably answer this mon
  • Memoric: 1 probably, it's fucking azu and it has good matchups with the high tiers already
  • Lord death man:1. It’s incredibly dumb and there’s no Tsareena.
  • Yuichi: 1. Top tier threat.
  • Demantoid: 1. Azumarill is back to being an Elite Water

Comfey: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: UR
  • Talkingtree: UR, can’t see what this would even do that other things already do better
  • Memoric: 5 who tf is this
  • Lord death man: UR its terrible
  • Yuichi: UR. why would u ever use this other than healing memes
  • Demantoid: UR :sobad:

Conkeldurr: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 5? Im not sure what teams this fits on
  • Talkingtree: 4, seems comparable to Scrafty as a somewhat bulky, slow, offensive Fighting-type. Exchanges Fake Out utility for more power and Mach Punch.
  • Memoric: 5 seems garbage
  • Lord death man: I want to say 5. I’m apprehensive of what this can do in a meta where hard TR is kind of wack and azumarill is amazing but it has some really good matchups.
  • Yuichi: 5. Its like ok on semiroom but id probably not use it anywhere else ever
  • Demantoid: 5. Conk always feels better on paper than in game.

Darmanitan-Galar: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit:3 but its like the best thing in 3
  • Talkingtree: This thing was really good the last time it was in the tier but shifts have made its job a lot harder. 3 for now.
  • Memoric: 5 no utility sux
  • Lord death man: 3 seems fine.
  • Yuichi: 3.
  • Demantoid: 4. Ice doesn’t have very good coverage in the current meta.

Kyurem: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 4 for what tree said but being bad vs terrak and neutral vs azu is just terrible
  • Talkingtree: 3. Great coverage and solid stats all around, but being slower than Terrak/Keld/Hydrei really hurts. The only really positive matchups it has in the top 3 tiers are Washtom/Wartortle/Inteleon/Tangela; all the others are neutral or negative which is not a great situation to be in.
  • Memoric: 3 high chance of being okay
  • Lord death man: 3 seems good.
  • Yuichi: 3 is fine
  • Demantoid: 3. Great base stats and offensive typing with Freeze Dry.

Rhyperior: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: im hesitant to say 5 even but it has to be viable so 5
  • Talkingtree: 5. A few too many bad matchups and hard TR isn’t in a good spot rn.
  • Memoric: 4 probably really epic in TR
  • Lord death man: 5.
  • Yuichi: UR. using this feels like using a brick sometimes
  • Demantoid: UR. Pretty useless outside of TR

Weezing: UR -> Tier 5:
  • N10sit: yeah 5s fine ngas and extremely good azu check
  • Talkingtree: abstain
  • Memoric: 5 this looks ok just for ngas get mished.
  • Lord death man: my nom
  • Yuichi: 5 seems fine
  • Demantoid: 5. Not as many important abilities as DOU but still okay


Results

Azumarill: NEW -> Tier 1
Conkeldurr: NEW -> Tier 5
Darmanitan-Galar: NEW -> Tier 3
Kyurem: NEW -> Tier 3
Rhyperior: NEW -> Tier 5
Weezing: UR -> Tier 5
 

n10siT

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New shifts!

Gigalith moved from DUU to DOU
Ninetales moved from DUU to DOU

Chandelure moved from DOU to DUU
Gastrodon moved from DOU to DUU
Grimmsnarl moved from DOU to DUU
Marowak-Alola moved from DOU to DUU
Politoed moved from DOU to DUU
Zarude moved from DOU to DUU

So two weathers are gone and one is added... rain has struggled to find a solid niche in DOU, but with the addition of Politoed to DUU, we will see what the likes of Barraskewda, Ludicolo, Drednaw, and Poliwrath can do. Gastrodon is kind of a rain check but not really because of Ludicolo, Grimmsnarl can do a lot of different things, and Zarude becomes a very interesting offensive mon. We will have the VR updated soon this time, I promise.
 

n10siT

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September votes! I should have sample sets updated tonight, and sample teams coming this week. If you haven't yet, be sure to sign up for this months forum tour: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/this-is-not-an-xy-tour-duu-september-showdown.3670040/

Chandelure: NEW -> Tier ???:

  • N10sit: UR idk what this is even for
  • Lord death man: UR, this is the worst possible meta for it.
  • Memoric: 4 azu rain meta lol
  • Yuichi: UR. This is bad
  • Demantoid: UR. Super frail with poor typing, actually loses to everything

Gastrodon: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 4, it has a positive matchup vs azu and is neutral vs terrak i guess, teams built to handle azu handle this too
  • Lord death man: 5? It feels bad.
  • Memoric: 4 this is, in high likelihood, still garbage
  • Yuichi: 5. This thing is quite literally useless now?
  • Demantoid: 4. Helps against azu+rain

Grimmsnarl: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 4, agree with demantoid in the sense of idk where it rly fits
  • Lord death man: 4.
  • Memoric: 3 i can see it being ok but not with full confidence. Prankster shenanigans look ok but grimmsnarl as a pokemon lacks any presence or defensive utility that will make it a great fit for teams
  • Yuichi: 4. I can see prankster twave and screens being good yea
  • Demantoid: 4. Good support mon, could see it moving up or down depending how meta ends up

Marowak-Alola: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 5 is fine this has a niche
  • Lord death man: 5.
  • Memoric: 4 tr hitter
  • Yuichi: 5.
  • Demantoid: 5. TR isn’t that good rn and water is super common

Politoed: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 2, not good enough by itself to be 1
  • Lord death man: 2. Rain is good and it’s surprisingly versatile.
  • Memoric: 2 rain prob broke
  • Yuichi: 2. Rain is super good rn
  • Demantoid: 2 for now, could be 1 depending how rain ends up

Zarude: NEW -> Tier ???:
  • N10sit: 3, could even see 4, but i think 3 it has good stats and is a grass type
  • Lord death man: 3 I think, it seems really good but also has some horrifically bad MUs.
  • Memoric: 2 it looks strong, it's a strong grass in a meta where water types are likely going to dominate
  • Yuichi: 2. This thing checks rain + azu and has amazing bulk for duu
  • Demantoid: 3. Solid bulk and typing for the meta

Ludicolo: UR -> Tier ???
  • N10sit: 3
  • Lord death man: 3
  • Memoric:
  • Yuichi: 2/3
  • Demantoid: 2/3


Results -
Gastrodon: NEW -> Tier 4
Grimmsnarl: NEW -> Tier 4
Marowak-Alola: NEW -> Tier 5
Politoed: NEW -> Tier 2
Zarude: NEW -> Tier 3
Ludicolo: UR -> Tier 3
 
thwackey -> 2
-THWACKERS GONNA THWACK
tangrowth -> 3
-tangrowth is only barely less bulky than tangela, it hits surprisingly hard with power whip, and it doesnt get crippled by knock off. run 252/252 careful
aegislash -> 1
-best mon in the tier by a solid margin
dracozolt -> 4
-scarf + hustle bolt beak just chunks things, and electric/dragon is actually pretty useful defensively.
toxtricity -> 4
-idk why this is in five, its great against rain and all the grass types littering the tier, primarily thwackey and zarude
talonflame -> 2
-again, another underrated mon. you cant rely on priority brave bird, but 126 speed is good enough that you dont have to

wartortle -> 3
-not as good with all the thwackey and other grasses in the tier
terrakion -> 2
-same as above, thwacker comes in on this and gets to do w/e it wants, also it loses hard to aegislash
ribombee -> 4
-ribombee is a meme mon, quiver dance + baton pass is neat, but ultimately gimmicky
 

n10siT

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Hello everyone, I hope we are enjoying Crown Tundra so far. I am just posting here to say that effective immediately due to DOU's ban of Shadow Tag, Shadow Tag will now be illegal in DUU as well. Trapping was less of an issue in this format, as the trapper (Gothorita) was slightly worse and the overall power level of the tier is lower, but this rule applies here nonetheless and removes a potentially unhealthy element from play.

Also, Beat Up was unbanned with the release of Crown Tundra, so it is freed here as well.

Be on the lookout for tomorrow's usage shift, as well as the one coming on the 15th of November.
 

n10siT

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We have our first usage shift! I am going to post the list of Pokemon that are obviously or potentially relevant, but you can find the full list of changes here. It is important to remember that the DOU metagame is still very new and needs time to settle. I would guess that some of these Pokemon, such as Blastoise, Cresselia, Volcarona, Weezing-G, and Porygon2 still have niches in DOU, and may not stay down here for long.

Articuno-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Blastoise moved from DOU to DUU
Charizard moved from DOU to DUU
Cinderace moved from DOU to DUU
Corviknight moved from DOU to DUU
Cresselia moved from DOU to DUU
Dusclops moved from DOU to DUU
Entei moved from DOU to DUU
Ferrothorn moved from DOU to DUU
Garchomp moved from DOU to DUU
Gigalith moved from DOU to DUU
Indeedee moved from DOU to DUU
Kommo-o moved from DOU to DUU
Landorus moved from DOU to DUU
Latias moved from DOU to DUU
Latios moved from DOU to DUU
Metagross moved from DOU to DUU
Milotic moved from DOU to DUU
Moltres moved from DOU to DUU
Naganadel moved from DOU to DUU
Nihilego moved from DOU to DUU
Ninetales moved from DOU to DUU
Pheromosa moved from DOU to DUU
Porygon2 moved from DOU to DUU
Scizor moved from DOU to DUU
Spectrier moved from DOU to DUU
Suicune moved from DOU to DUU
Sylveon moved from DOU to DUU
Tapu Bulu moved from DOU to DUU
Thundurus moved from DOU to DUU
Togekiss moved from DOU to DUU
Tornadus moved from DOU to DUU
Venusaur moved from DOU to DUU
Victini moved from DOU to DUU
Volcarona moved from DOU to DUU
Weezing-Galar moved from DOU to DUU
Xurkitree moved from DOU to DUU
Zygarde-10% moved from DOU to DUU
 

Lord Death Man

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I've found this ladder to be really fun so far, the power level is sort of ridiculous but it's not ridiculous in an unfun way, unlike some past metas - I'm sure I might change my mind about that as the meta changes, however.

New Mons - Warning, long post
I think Cresselia and Volcarona are the two best mons, they're just ridiculous without being enabled and insane when enabled. Tapu Bulu, Blastoise, Reflect, Aurora Veil, etc. both make these mons absolutely insane.

Sun (Ninetales, Charizard, Venusaur) feels like a close third; while incredibly good (especially with Cress), it often feels very all-or-nothing. The ladder loves anti-sun mons like AV Dragons (Goodra especially), Fire types (Entei, Arcanine), and stray Politoeds dropped on non-rain teams, so it's a little hard to get a good grasp on just how good it is, but it seems incredible.

Spectrier is notably excellent despite the terrible coverage because there's shockingly few good Dark or Normal types but it does nail one of the single best defensive mons hard. Both Specs and Spooky Plate (using Shadow Ball, Substitute, Protect, and one of Snarl/Wisp/Dark Pulse) are effective cleaners who spiral rapidly out of control, but I also see sooo many people lock into Specs Snarl and please don't do that. I've had a lot of fun with Specs Hex as well, though I do feel it's a bit niche.

Nihilego is a shockingly decent new addition thanks to Meteor Beam; the ability to fire off what is essentially a Z-move and get a +1 boost is incredibly valuable to a mon that seriously lacked a distinct niche last gen. Access to a lot of good coverage options is also a godsend - Dazzling Gleam, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot can all be used to quickly eliminate would-be checks like Krookodile, frail Steel-types, and Gastrodon (and Krookodile, again). I overlooked this at first because of how meh it was last gen but decided to try it out as an offensive T-Spiker and have really liked it.

Naganadel is the same as last gen, but the tailwind buff is pretty substantial, especially if you opt to run Timid over Modest, since it means a -2 special attack Naga is still capable of changing the tide of games.

Tapu Bulu is a crazy strong wallbreaker + soft check to Psyspam + Cress enabler. It struggles with everything it struggled with last gen DOU, and really misses both 50% berries and z-moves, but it's finally in a tier where it's not miserably outclassed and is capable of putting in serious work vs a lot of teams due to it's sort of ridiculous power, decent defensive dual typing, and grassy terrain.

Metagross is almost the same as last gen, but it got a new toy in Steel Roller that's sort of hard to leverage but lets AV Metagross act as an incredible check to Psyspam, which is legitimately annoying for a lot of teams, or get rid of its own team's Grassy terrain, which is rarely actually useful for anything but Bulu. Or both.

Suicune is in a strange position where fast Tailwind is preferred and Cress serves as a much more ridiculous bulky mon, but it's still as versatile and strong as ever - it just unfortunately isn't Cress and doesn't notably beat enough Cress checks for me to find a big niche for it. It's still excellent, but the meta feels incredibly harsh to it, in part because of...

Blastoise is the same Blastoise of DOU. Not too much else to say; it's good.

Porygon2 is a godsend to Trick Room, which actually has a lot of notably heavy hitters but relatively few notable Setters, most of which are also in a bad spot vs a lot of new mons and their checks. I'm apprehensive to use it outside of Trick Room for reasons I currently feel are obvious, but the synergy with existing, good TR mons like Cofagrigus is obvious.

Cinderace and Pheromosa I decided to combine these two because in my mind they do very similar thinks; shred teams with strong, fast U-Turns before relying on coverage moves to clean. Pheromosa has quite a few good new physical moves (Close Combat, Throat Chop, Triple Axel) that justify using it with a band and Libero Cinderace was barely around before it moved up by usage.

Scizor takes similar advantage of a strong U-Turn and decent coverage to weaken/clean, but instead of being fast it has a ridiculously good defensive typing and decent defensive stats.

Sylveon. I hate this mon, I don't know what it's doing and the meta feels incredibly hostile to it; I'm only including it to say that I hate it. Togekiss usually feels better to me, which is sad; stuff like Cress, Weezing-Galar, and Steel types just give Sylveon a horrible time, on top of the poor synergy with better Fairies like Togekiss or Bulu.

Corviknight surprisingly doesn't really stand out; it's certainly not bad by any metric but I struggle to see a particularly strong use for the typical Iron Defense set due to it losing to quite a bit, while Bulk Up sets can beat a bit more on paper, boosting slower is a huge detriment. It's good vs what Cress is largely bad against, but then you're running two slow setup sweepers.

Entei. I think this fell from grace last gen despite the large Inner Focus buff (gets access to Extreme Speed + blocks Intimidate drop). Like it certainly isn't bad - Band is terrifying, offensive sets are good, etc - but it really feels the loss of a 50% berry.

Salamence and Dragonite Meanwhile I think these have gotten substantially better; Dual Wingbeat makes Dragon Dance workable for both, and I've been using a Mixed Intimidate + Tailwind set on Salamence (Dual Wingbeat + Draco Meteor) that has felt very effective at role compression. Meanwhile, Band Dragonite (with Inner Focus) can make use of its excellent coverage with an actually usable stab to threaten a lot of builds; neither is excellent but they both have substantially more tools to work, which is huge.

Thundurus and Tornadus both benefit massively from new speed mechanics while also being generally good mons, as they were before. Thundy does really mourn the loss of HP Ice, but it still has a decent enough special movepool. Meanwhile Torn actually feels very useful. And as before, both of their Therian forms teeter on the cusp of usability, outshone by the Incarnates more than being outright bad themselves.

Landorus-Incarnate gained nothing but is still an absurd mix of type+bulk+power.

Milotic in a tier that now has a lot of set up, a lot of bulky waters, and Venusaur spreading sleep, Milotic is in an awkward position where it's not bad at all but is still sort of incredibly awkward. I don't really know how to feel about it - I just don't ever think to place it on a team over mons I generally feel are better, even though it has no specific flaws. Intimidate isn't *that* common, and without an Intim boost you're just throwing out muddy waters and sleeps.

Articuno-Galar isn't bad, but is a pretty big disappointment for much of the same reasons as Milotic, except it also shares a defensive type with Cress and and an offensive type with Psychic Spam, meaning that any team with a weakness to Articuno probably had it coming. Tornadus is a better offensive tailwind setter; Milotic is a better competitive mon; Cress is a better bulky Psychic; Indedee-M is a better offensive psychic. Articuno-G relies so much on stacking these four distinct niches into one fairly meh mon, and it isn't often successful, unfortunately.

Victini is kind of funny in that it sort of sucks and is also really good. AV Victini is essentially the only simaltaneous check to Psyspam and Sun; Scarf Tini is really good at eliminating one mon per team, and has a versatile last slot for Final Gambiting or Tricking some random mon out of the way; Weakness Policy Trick Room is a potent surprise just because of what Victini normally spends time doing. But it also finds itself rarely hitting hard, being extremely vulnerable to Intimidate/Reliant on V-Create, and is somewhat prone to just being outdone by better mons. When it works it works, but I also find myself desperately wishing I could use anything else on those teams.

To be continued, I didn't realize just how much dropped and still wanted to cover mons we had but briefly lost, and also mons who got a new lease on life due to their associated partners (Indeedee-M, Alakazam, Krook). Also some mons I haven't gotten to test yet, such as Buzzwole, Blaziken.
 
Last edited:
Ice monotype (more exactly, hail weather) seems to be overpowered somehow in this meta. I use an ice monotype team and get to 1520 rather easily, also beat lord death man with it. I am a pretty bad player in term of decision making and team building...So something must be wrong with the ice type here.
Replay: Here
yupp mono ice team is so problematic,but thankfully few people know about this LOL
 

n10siT

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Update post! So we have a usage shift today, with some notable changes:

Comfey moved from DUU to DOU
Metagross moved from DUU to DOU
Volcarona moved from DUU to DOU

Gothitelle moved from DOU to DUU

Two of the best checks to Cresselia have left, making a busted mon even more busted. Comfey and Gothitelle are fairly irrelevant.

We are starting on the VR now, we're going to take a look at basically every potentially viable mon in the format and vote to see where they land. Expect that to be done in the coming weeks and for there to be sample teams again. Also, I am still working out the details of this, but there will be a kick off tournament of sorts with substantial cash prizing starting in very early December. Be on the lookout for that!
 

n10siT

Hoopa can do anything!
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We have updated the VR! Some news, Nido-Rus has been added to our merry little band! I've had great respect for his insight into DUU over the years, so to have him on in an official capacity is a delight. We voted on every mon that I could consider relevant, but this list will definitely be reshaped by the upcoming tournament. To tiebreak the votes, I picked the lower tier option. So if a mon had three votes for tier 4 and three for tier 5, it landed in tier 5. However, if a Pokemon was tied between tier 5 and unranked, I put it in tier 5. I thought it would be better to include all of the potentially viable mons, as we can just remove them later if they turn out to be trash. I recognize this is a rather arbitrary application of a self imposed ruleset, but to any detractors: get mished.

Please sign up for the 2nd edition of DUU Coronation tour! There is $100 in prizing! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/swsh-doubles-uu-recoronation-tournament.3674057/

Please see the third post in this thread for the updated VR. I really need sample teams! Please post in this thread or DM me on Discord or PS if you have good teams you'd be willing to share!

Pokemonn10siTlord death manDemantoidMemoricYuichiNido-RusResult
Aegislash3322323
AerodactylURURURURUR5?UR
AlcremieURUR5URURURUR
Araquanid554554/55
Arcanine2335333
Articuno-GalarUR55UR555
Azumarill333434?3
BisharpUR545555
Blastoise2222222
BlazikenURUR55UR55
BuzzwoleUR554545
Chandelure5UR5URURURUR
Charizard33332?33
Cinderace4545455
ClefableURURURURURURUR
ClefairyUR555555
Cofagrigus545UR545
ConkeldurrUR55UR55/UR5
CopperajahURURURUR5URUR
Corviknight444543/44
Cresselia1111111
CrobatURUR5URUR5UR
Darmanitan-Galar4345354
Dracozolt4344434
DragoniteUR55UR55/UR5
Dusclops544544/54
Entei4355454
Ferrothorn5544545
Garchomp5UR555UR5
Gastrodon4455534
GengarUR55UR555
Gigalith4334333
GrimmsnarlURURURUR5URUR
Gyarados5URURURUR5UR
Indeedee-M4335454
InteleonUR5URURURURUR
Jellicent4555445
Keldeo4554444
Kommo-o333333/43
Kyurem3322233
Landorus2232222
Latias444543/44
Latios423342/33
Ludicolo3334343
Lurantis5453534
MamoswineUR555555
Marowak-Alola4455454
Milotic5455545
Mimikyu4545454
MoltresUR5URUR5URUR
Naganadel2222222
Nihilego1111221
Ninetales4333343
Nintetales-Alola5454455
Pheromosa4455455
PincurchinURURURURURURUR
Politoed3333343
Porygon23333223
PrimarinaURURURUR55UR
Salamence54UR5UR45
Scizor5455545
Scrafty4344444
Spectrier22/323232
Suicune233432/33
Sylveon4545434
Talonflame5555555
Tapu Bulu222222/32
Terrakion343333/43
Thundurus1222222
ThwackyURURURURURURUR
Togekiss323332/33
Tornadus3233333
ToxtricityURURURURURURUR
Venusaur4333343
Victini3233333
Weezing-Galar44?5553/45
XurkitreeURURURURUR5/URUR
Zarude455544/5/UR5
Zygarde-10%URURURURURURUR
BronzongURUR55UR55
Chansey544443/44
Hydreigon4443444
RibombeeUR5UR555/UR5
RhyperiorUR555UR5/UR5
 

n10siT

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Hi!

Blacephalon moved from DOU to DUU
Kingdra moved from DOU to DUU
Volcarona moved from DOU to DUU

Cresselia moved from DUU to DOU
Nihilego moved from DUU to DOU
Dusclops moved from DNU to DOU

We got some new mons, and all of tier 1 left! And Dusclops, bc ladder thinks its 2019. We voted on the new mons AND we re-voted on all of tier 2 to see if anything moved up. It was close, but just Thundurus-I will be tier 1 now. Thanks, T Wave!

Pokemonn10siTlord death manDemantoidMemoricYuichiNido-RusResult
Blacephelon4443444
Kingdra3323333
Volcarona2222222
Blastoise2221222
Landorus-I2221222
Naganadel1211222
Spectrier2221122
Tapu Bulu2111222
Thundurus-I1111111
 

n10siT

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If hydreigon is more viable than mons who r duu by tier, then why hydreigon is dnu?
The simplest answer to this is that the ladder quality of DUU isn't very good. It's a metagame that gets fewer games relative to a lot of the other formats on the site, which drives down the average quality of any given team. Hydreigon just simply doesn't get enough ladder usage to actually be DUU, so it falls in with everything else in DNU.
 
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