Doubles Overview, Benchmarks, and Q&A Thread—Read before asking!

Stratos

Banned deucer.
with knock your sweep isnt stopped by ferro/aegis/amoong, but with play rough youre less than useless before a BD. depends which your team needs more. Typically knock, probably?

return is also an option, trades aegis and ferro for venu and keld (pr also beats keld), requires significant speed investment for venu tho and keld doesnt ko either way
 

Checkmater

It’s just us kittens left, and the rain is coming
is a Tiering Contributor
KO'ing vs not KO'ing.... is a huge difference

I can't count the number of times ohko'ing amoonguss with knock has been extremely important for me so you really can't just dismiss it like that

Also Knock can be useful pre-bd for hitting landos / other shit for getting rid of pesky items
 
with knock your sweep isnt stopped by ferro/aegis/amoong, but with play rough youre less than useless before a BD. depends which your team needs more. Typically knock, probably?

return is also an option, trades aegis and ferro for venu and keld (pr also beats keld), requires significant speed investment for venu tho and keld doesnt ko either way
Knock off also gets the KO on jirachi with BD, and takes off the saftey goggles without it.
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
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do SPL matches give a good representation of the current DOU meta? I assume the SPL guys take their time to counterstyle their opponent a bit, which may give a flawed view of the actual DOU meta, no?

I am very interested in getting into DOU so any tips on how to learn the metagame and how to prepare for things like THALK, CHALK, and Diancie + Rachi would be really appreciated :)

also another short question: how does the DOU Council decide if something is 'broken/suspect-worthy' or not? because most Pokémon are only dangerous in combination with another Pokémon, making it hard to suspect a single mon. How does this work exactly?
 
Generally there are two things you will see in an SPL match. Either 1. Basic AF squads that are very common. OR 2. Something way out of left field (i.e. KyleCole's ghourgeist). Most of the teams you see are very solid squads that do represent the current meta well aside from a few. A good place to find teams to start out with is the Sample Teams thread, which has a number of solid squads that are also easy for new players to use.

To answer your question about suspect testing, most suspect tests are preceded by a community outcry for a suspect test. They don't just test things they have problems with. Skymin was banned mainly because of people's irritation with serene grace air slash (aka fake out). Mega-Mence got the chopping block a lot due to its use with jirachi, which allowed it to essentially set up and sweep without problem. Even without jirachi, mega-mence just beats so many of its own threats after one DD. The council leaves it up to the community to decide whether something actually gets banned or not, so in general it's not just about what they want.
 

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
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To answer your question about suspect testing, most suspect tests are preceded by a community outcry for a suspect test. They don't just test things they have problems with. Skymin was banned mainly because of people's irritation with serene grace air slash (aka fake out). Mega-Mence got the chopping block a lot due to its use with jirachi, which allowed it to essentially set up and sweep without problem. Even without jirachi, mega-mence just beats so many of its own threats after one DD. The council leaves it up to the community to decide whether something actually gets banned or not, so in general it's not just about what they want.
i'd like to mention that there were many other key aspects to shaymin-sky that made it broken as it was, such as its insane speed + spa stat, its great coverage, an amazing STAB move that has a 80% chance to drop someones spd by -2.

seed flare essentially made it that nothing could switch in to it freely without risking a massive drop only to get KOd the next turn by one of its other coverage moves. the pokemon had little counterplay to it which resulted into a ban
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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IDK if this is the right place to ask this kind of question, so my apologies if its not. It says Q&A though so I'll assume that it is.

I've been wanting to get back into doubles for a long time now (I played VGC dubs in the 2014 season and have kinda let it drop off since), but I honestly don't know where to start. I've debated using the ladder, but honestly I've played a few games on there it is so atrociously bad that I don't think I'll really gain all that much from playing on there (I played ~20 games and learned literally nothing worthwhile in that time span). Similarly, I've debated using tours such as the doubles circuit to get back into it, but it is kinda difficult to manage time-wise and means that I won't be able to play very much if I use them exclusively. This is the dilemma that I am facing, and it is really making it difficult to get back into what is an otherwise much more enjoyable format than singles. Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to start?
 
In the dubs room we have really active voices and mods that will at any time help you w/ whatever you want such as teambuilding, good cores to use, and game mechanics so long as you ask, and we also do tours pretty often in which regulars tend to join. You might see some weird shit like bronzong from some battles but you'll also get to see how chess-like dubs tends to get compared to the intense matchup situations singles gives. Most of us are really nice and ready to help n_n

edit regarding below: compared to most rooms we have lots of tours, stop being so salty about losing #tour lol
 
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Checkmater

It’s just us kittens left, and the rain is coming
is a Tiering Contributor
the ladder actually isn't bad, after like 10 games once you get to at least 1300+ (and hopefully 1500+, ladder got adjusted it shouldn't be hard even for newer players) you can get some good matches, whether with ladder heroes or doubles regulars who are laddering
 
I think the biggest issue with the ladder is that none of us experienced users ladder. If the ladder was known for being good consistently near the middle and top, people would ladder more for experience rather than sit around waiting for a room tour or begging for a game. I think doubles would be much more accessible for tournament play of the ladder was a more consistent place to get quality games you can learn from. Back when I played constantly, I had teams dedicated to the ladder that had 7 prankster taunt mons with fake out and haze to deal with the gimmicky jank of the ladder. That shouldn't have to be a thing. TL;DR ladder more.

Anyway, I too have been wanting to get back into doubles. I've always found it to be a fun tier. What are some good strats and Pokemon for me to look out for or try when I start building teams again?
 

BLOOD TOTEM

braine damaged
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i haven't been v active on the subforum but i am probably gonna post a bit more now

w/ regards to the ladder: the ladder is actually fine, I agree with check's post I have seen a lot of good matches on the ladder and I've watched a bunch of competent people with solid teams.

Nothing is gonna make someone who doesn't want to ladder (me) actually ladder other than like suspect reqs. For me, the reasoning is I don't find laddering a rewarding experience. When I first started playing the metagame the ladder was a learning place, I got mad at hax / losing but I also gained a lot of experience and worked out how to play the game. I've experienced an unreasonable amount of scenarios playing ladder matches and that taught me how to make hard reads and find my win condition in a tough spot. Today though the ladder doesn't really teach me anything new and all I get is being mad at hax / losing so I don't like to ladder at all.

s/o early ladder totem http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-37919141 s/o ppw don pipe using kanga before the masses
 
i haven't been v active on the subforum but i am probably gonna post a bit more now

w/ regards to the ladder: the ladder is actually fine, I agree with check's post I have seen a lot of good matches on the ladder and I've watched a bunch of competent people with solid teams.

Nothing is gonna make someone who doesn't want to ladder (me) actually ladder other than like suspect reqs. For me, the reasoning is I don't find laddering a rewarding experience. When I first started playing the metagame the ladder was a learning place, I got mad at hax / losing but I also gained a lot of experience and worked out how to play the game. I've experienced an unreasonable amount of scenarios playing ladder matches and that taught me how to make hard reads and find my win condition in a tough spot. Today though the ladder doesn't really teach me anything new and all I get is being mad at hax / losing so I don't like to ladder at all.

s/o early ladder totem http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-37919141 s/o ppw don pipe using kanga before the masses
I think the most important part of that entire replay is the ladders ratings in the 2000's at the end. I'd love to see enough active players that that was possible.
 

Fran

formerly Frania
is a Tiering Contributor
DPL Champion
is kangascan the best doubles mega. what should i use, is chalk the best doubles team still? can i use vgc15 teams in this format
 
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is kangascan the best doubles mega.
Arguably Mega-Diancie and Mega-Kangaskhan are the best mega's in the format right now, but there are a lot of really cool megas to try out.

is chalk the best doubles team still?
Chalk was good in VGC 15, and it's not good at all in this meta.

can i use vgc15 teams in this format
Uou can, they just won't be very good since there are a lot of really good mons in doubles that aren't in vgc15, such as Mega-Diancie, Keldeo, Hoopa-Unbound, Jirachi, and Deoxys-Attack.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
chalk is good its just inconsistent because Kyurem gives it the dick (and to a lesser extent diancie/keldeo)
 
What should I expect when I see Hoop-U in team preview? Or, at least, what's the most popular set(s)? I've noticed it sometimes runs trick room, choice scarf, or life orb with tailwind support. The problem is, I have a hard time figuring out what set it is. This one match, the opponent's team, which had some speedy mons, didn't seem trick-roomy. But half-way through the match, his Hoopa-U uses trick room and commences the sweep. Other times I'm caught off guard by a scarf, and sometimes I predict that it's choice-locked (and it turns out not to be).
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
yeah those are the three sets it has. scarf timid outruns lando and drops it w/ hp ice so if the team looks lando weak expect scarf. harder to tell apart LO and TR (which is the point, TR is supposed to be a surprise set (and so is scarf lol)) so you kind of just have to guess and hope for the best, or play in a way that covers the possibility of either set. LO is more common than TR, but you gotta think if it looks like their team has enough speed control to not need TR or if they might want the extra speed control hoopa provides.
 
One of the biggest thing Char-X benefits from is redirection so that it can dragon dance a little more freely. I typically see that from Follow-Me Jirachi + Charizard X. Also just team support that can help deal with both bulky waters and bulky grounds are a big help
 

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