Chou Toshio
Over9000
Part of the point being addressed is that Fire Blast is better than HP Water, even on Volcarona. HP Water is used, and that's one thing I'm recommending as not-good. If people take away from this that they should use Fire Blast instead of HP Water on their rain volc, that is also a value this thread (that post) is adding.Volcarona is still a fearsome pokemon for the metagame, (btw fire blast is still viable over hp water imo)
Honestly though, remember that this thread is about specific sets-- not Pokemon overall. You have no right to bring up Fire Blast Volc as a criticism of my post, because I was criticizing HP Water Volc specifically.
252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Hidden Power Fighting vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in sand: 286-338 (74.09 - 87.56%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rockyou can't break throught team with Moltres, it's less powerful even with random calcs, ( like yeah hurricane with stabb hits better and stuff) you can't break through things like Tyranitar (you'd be surprise to see how little Hp fight does) and beating SS is a great win condition for any Rain team.
Also, you can break through offensive teams quite well with Moltres. The role both Pokemon are taking is "powerful Hurricane abusers that has some defensive benefit, and can also threaten sun." That was the whole reason people started using rain Volc in the fist place-- that it had surprising synergy with Rain, and could wreck sun.
Honestly though, Moltres does most of this better. It abuses Hurricane better for obvious reasons. It is a bigger asset against Sun with Fire Blast than Volcarona is with HP Water (which is the set I referenced-- there's no point in bringing up Fire Blast volc in the context of my post). Furthermore, being able to out-speed Venusaur with 1 turn of set up drives the point of being effective against sun home.
Moltres can wall-break without Timid 100 Speed, since that speed tier isn't all that great in this meta anyway, and Moltres' bulk and resistances aid it (plus it just wall breaks better in general)
While it can't bust through stall teams as well, Rain has better pokes for that anyway (Keldeo...), and Moltres' +2 Speed out pacing the most common CS users makes it overall more suited for sweeping in this metagame.
Or course, you will always keep Spikes AND SR off the field. Just because they both need Spin support doesn't mean Spikes immunity isn't an asset-- it just means that Moltres can come in that much more often and be that much more durable.And i don't really like the fact that you're trying to sell your Moltres by putting Volcarona down a lot, if you can spinn the SR, why not being hit by spikes / TS is so great then ?
Moltres hitting Jellicent:Why not talking about how volcarona can start to beat stalls like Jellicent by using QD multiple times while Moltres will be at +0 for ever ?
252+ SpA Life Orb Moltres Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 261-308 (64.76 - 76.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Volcarona setting up on Jellicent:
0 SpA Jellicent Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona in rain: 218-260 (70.09 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Jellicent Scald vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona in rain: 146-174 (46.94 - 55.94%) -- 69.92% chance to 2HKO
Because again, this is the "Don't use that, use this." thread, where we talk about specific sets (like in the rules) instead of Pokemon. I listed the specific sets-- what's in the Pokemon's total move pools is irrelevant.Why not talking about how bad Moltres movepool is ? Hurricane / FB / Hp and there you go, Volcarona can have Hp water, Giga drain, Roost, a fire move....
Besides, Rain Volc is even less efficient overall with Giga Drain or Roost.
Also, moltres has everything it needs offensively in those moves. How is the fact that it doesn't have moves for much variation at all relevant within the context of this thread, and my post?
I'm not writing an analysis here. I already have my contributor badge.Why not talking about Moltres counters ? I mean, off course you will beat a fight pokemon with a Flying stabb...
You're not instilling in me confidence that you understand how this thread works.Imo Volcarona is overall better in sun for beating scarfkeldeo with giga drain, but i really don't think moltres is better than him, and there's a reason why Moltres is less played than Volcarona, even in Rain.
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