Defunct CAP Buff 3 - Miasmaw

Status
Not open for further replies.
WIP
+7 SPD
+7 SPE
+Infestation


Miasmaw trapper set

Miasmaw @ Leftovers
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
- Infestation
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power/Thunder
- Taunt

Adding Infestation to its move pool can help it abuse Neutralizing gas and can add flexibility when considering it for teambuilding.

I don't know the best trapper set for it but at least I can get the ball rolling
 

Zetalz

Expect nothing, deliver less
is a Pre-Contributor
strap yourselves in gubs and nogards

Final Submission

+U-turn
+Knock Off
+Gunk Shot
+Toxic
-31 Special Attack (115 > 84)
+20 Special Defense (85 > 105)
+11 Speed (92 > 103)


Hoo boy big stats big changes yowza. This buff seeks to increase Miasmaw's ability to generate switch-in opportunities by improving it's Speed tier, ability to switch directly into more of the mons NGas targets, and having more (any) midground moves to click in any given game state. Detailed explanations as follows.

Moves: U-turn & Knock Off need no introduction, giving Maw substantially better tools to force progress without sacrificing much in any given match-up. I've flip-flopped a lot between Gunk and Toxic but settled on just giving it both. Gunk brings life to offensive sets to keep Fairies from shitting on it's day while Toxic gives Maw more flexibility in the utility and stallbreaking department.

Stats: Speed is straightforward, letting Maw not be forced out by common threats like Urshifu, Lele and Chomper. Increased SpDef gives Maw much more wiggle room as a switch-in to bulky Special Attackers & Regen mons, and makes it a bit more difficult to revenge from common annoyances to it like Fini & Torn. Higher SpDef also better enables a more bulky stallbreaker type of Maw spread that's been experimented with before but never really took off. SpA was dropped to preserve BST and because I think mixed Maw has and always will be cope, you either go full bore to either side or not at all. (If I had my way I'd also clean up it's bevy of Special oriented moves just to improve the mons optics but that's not the point of this process).
216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 3 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 315-375 (101.2 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed KO in 3 turns
216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 3 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 265-314 (85.2 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to 3HKO
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 180-213 (57.8 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 151-178 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO
16+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 141-166 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO
16+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 118-139 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 150-178 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 126-150 (40.5 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 294-348 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 248-294 (79.7 - 94.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 288-338 (92.6 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 240-284 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In the instance of Maw running a bulkier set which is definitely feasible with these changes (not that that'd stop Darek lol) these are some funny results you can get out of it.
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 154-183 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after trapping damage
0 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (34.7 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 187-222 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Sets:
Offensive Pivot (Miasmaw) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake/Dragon Hammer
- Gunk Shot/Knock Off
- Knock Off/Recover/First Impression

Straightforward pivot set that seeks to capitalize on Maw's new switch-in potential and ability to not have to click 100% correctly to make progress. U-turn is a safe midground to keep momentum up. EQ is EQ, it does EQ thangs. Hammer is the next best available spammable STAB after U-turn and gives it a way to whollop the newly nerfed Ebook. Knock is another relatively free move for Maw to click on switches and a good complement to U-turn. Gunk is the big red anti-Fairy button though not as clickable as Knock. FIMP is still a cool anti-offensive option waiting in the tank if needed but is likely inferior on non-Banded sets and you likely don't run it and U-turn without said CB. Recover can provide some measure of sustain in long grind games though at the cost of some coverage and utility. There's definitely an argument against having all of U-turn/Knock/Gunk on the same set as then Maw lacks a real strong

Funky Stallbreaker/Pivot (Miasmaw) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic/Taunt
- Recover
- Taunt/Gunk Shot/Earthquake/U-turn

Utilizes the higher speed tier and much improved SpDef to pivot into Special Attackers and other pivots it aligns well against. See above laundry list of calcs for a better idea of what it's switching into. Last slot is pretty flexible for what you really need Maw to target on your team. Due to the lessened power output and very targeted interactions this set would still allow common Maw checks such as Corv to still give counterplay to it without having to compromise vs offensive sets.

Clicka da button (Miasmaw) @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression/U-turn
- Dragon Hammer/Outrage
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake/Close Combat/Knock Off

he clicka da button a bit better than before. still gotta pick ya buttons wisely
 
Last edited:
WIP

+U-turn
+Knock Off
+Gunk Shot
+Wild Charge

-8 Def (60 > 52)
-3 SpA (115 > 112)
+11 SpD (85 > 96)
+6 Spe (92 > 98)


Another U-Turn / Knock Off / Gunk Shot buff, but with not only the addition of Wild Charge but still maintaining Miasmaw’s good special breaking potential due to its colourful coverage, Nasty Plot and Neutralizing Gas while at the same time giving it better SpD (which matters more than its Physical Defense anyways, Bug/Dragon can be surprisingly good on the specially defensive side).

Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
- U-turn
- Dragon Hammer / Outrage
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot / Earthquake / Close Combat / Wild Charge


Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs
Ability: Neutralizing Gas / Compound Eyes
- U-turn / Nasty Plot
- Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Sludge Bomb
- Earth Power


Extra SpD gives it more room to go up against Fini as mentioned by Dex, 98 Speed allows it to outspeed unboosted Tapu Lele, Jumbao, Urshifu, invested Colossoil and Hydreigon (does this matter?). U-Turn allows it to keep momentum by pivoting out of bad matchups while still chipping at your opponent’s team, Knock Off synergizes amazingly well with Neutralizing Gas to break down defensive mons easier and remove crucial items for offensive mons, Gunk Shot serves as a much more powerful way of dealing with Fairies (and also gives you a slight reason to maybe use Compound Eyes) and Wild Charge gives it a way to not be insta-walled by Corviknight and the bulky waters with physical sets. I really want to keep Miasmaw’s special offensive capabilities in some way as Nasty Plot plus the coverage and STAB it offers combined with Neutralizing Gas gives it a unique way of checking Corviknight, Cawmodore and Tornadus and bluffing the usual checks to its physical sets, but thanks to its SpA not being too high I don’t think this will make Miasmaw an overwhelming threat just beaming with versatility in a Kyurem-type way. Lowering its already low Def is the sacrifice I’m taking here to keep the BST decently close to its original while leaving the SpA mostly intact as it doesn’t really effect its best matchups that much and sort of balances it out in a way.
 
Last edited:

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Final Submission

+ U-turn
+ Wild Charge
+ 32 Special Defense (85 > 117)
+ 4 Speed (92 > 96)
- 38 Special Attack (115 > 77)


U-turn: Do I even really need to go into detail regarding this? Talking about the virtues of U-turn is pretty much just beating a dead horse.

Wild Charge: Just like quziel has already said, Bug/Dragon/(Ground or Fighting)/Electric is actually surprisingly quite solid coverage at the moment, and giving Miasmaw access to a physical Electric-type move does help a fair amount with it's match-up against Tapu Fini, while also not being completely brainless since it does sacrifice some of your survivability to do so. Another thing I sort of like about Wild Charge is that it also helps out Choice Band sets quite a bit, as Wild Charge is able to 2HKO Arghonaut and Corviknight, but only if Miasmaw is holding Choice Band. I think that encouraging some degree of set diversity is fairly ideal for this buff, and the counterplay between the two sets is fairly consistent in it's current state that I don't really see this causing any issues.

252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 152-180 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 226-266 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 152-180 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 226-268 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+32 Special Defense: 117 Special Defense prevents Miasmaw from being OHKOed by +2 Overheat from Pyroak and allows it to switch-in on +0 Overheat twice with minimum investment. I understand that this is a massive increase to Special Defense, which is why I tried to be a bit more tame with my other additions, but I think that giving Miasmaw the ability to consistently switch-in on Roak gives it a fair amount of defensive utility that it is currently lacking. It also helps fulfill its concept a bit better, since it can take hits from pivots such as Slowbro and Tornadus-T better (Notably, it avoids a 2HKO from the former's Ice Beam and a OHKO from the later's Hurricane).

216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 261-307 (83.9 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 114-136 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 224-266 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+4 Speed: 96 Speed allows us to outspeed Tapu Lele and apply pressure to it better with U-turn. I was originally going to do +6 Speed like everyone else to outspeed Urshifu, but I'm sort of questioning how necessary that really is for us since I honestly don't really think there is too much value in it (At least not when compared to outspeeding Tapu Lele), and I do think that it's important to hold a tiny bit of restraint with these buffs.
 
Last edited:

Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
FINAL SUBMISSION

+ U-turn
+ Wild Charge
+ Gunk Shot
+ 7 Spe (92 -> 99)
+ 20 SpD (85 -> 105)
- 27 SpA (115 -> 88)



Admittedly, my spread isn't that much different than what a lot of people have suggested. As previous posts have noted, Miasmaw lacks a "spammable move" that so many wallbreakers enjoy, so by giving it U-Turn, Miasmaw can punish pivots while also providing some pivoting itself. I know that during the process we were hesitant of making Miasmaw the premier pivot by invalidating others, but I think with this buff package, Miasmaw will act similarly to Dragapult, but being slower and more physically offensive. U-turn allows for forward progression.

I think Wild Charge is especially useful for the justification Jordy and Quziel provided. The coverage of Bug / Dragon / (Ground/Fighting) / Electric is actually good coverage, and Wild Charge offers coverage at the cost of longevity which to me is a fair trade-off. Miasmaw already has some pretty serious 4MSS, so it forces the player to choose between a greater offensive presence, and longevity. Gunk Shot is a similar choice because it gives Miasmaw a reasonable option to hit Fairies that it outspeeds, and generates more offensive pressure than Poison Jab.

I opted for 99 Speed instead of 98 speed so that we're guaranteed faster than Timid unboosted Hydreigon, giving Miasmaw a defined speed tier, while still being slower than any three digit Base Speed Pokemon. I'm not ultra-married to this if people prefer 98 Spe instead to tie with other Base 98s

Adding 20 SpD ensures that an uninvested Miasmaw will be able to reliably switch into Heatran at least once whether that's a Magma Storm or even a full-power Eruption. It also lets Miasmaw live a Hurricane from Tornadus-Therian, and mandates that Miasmaw run at least 4 SpD as to not risk the OHKO from Venomicon-P.

Removing 27 SpA is done to maintain a total BST and focus more on Miasmaw's physical capabilities, while not completely destroying its potential to use powerful Special Attacking moves like Draco Meteor if they so desire. I personally think we should lean into the plethora of physical attacking options that Miasmaw has, and this package still allows us to run a plethora of options without worrying about contact damage from abilities like Iron Barbs.

I've opted to not include Knock Off or Toxic in this package if only because I think Knock + U-Turn is a niche already easily filled by Tornadus-Therian which objectively does that move combination better. I understand the merit of Choice Banded Knock Off + U-turn, and I also understand that Miasmaw is being oriented more as a stallbreaker than Tornadus-Therian, but I think that Miasmaw's coverage with these buffs is more than enough to warrant a niche in the metagame.

Like Dex, I think a set with HDB will become the most viable option, though there's still definitely merit to running a Banded Fimp set with U-turn and then two coverage moves. There's room for creativity as well, especially since Miasmaw maintains Recover, Taunt, and some interesting coverage. I think this entry is pretty conservative with all the other spreads being posted, but I also think it's a reasonable buff package all the same.
 
Last edited:
Final Submission

+ 11 Speed
+ Knock Off
- 21 Sp. Attack


New stats: 85/135/60/94/85/103 (562)

This buff package aims to fix two of Miasmaw's biggest issues, those being an awkward Speed tier and the lack of a clickable move. Miasmaw now outspeeds Choice Specs Tapu Lele, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, Zapdos, Pajantom, Venomicon-Epilogue, and Garchomp, giving it fewer checks, but it is still checked by Stratagem, Weavile, Tornadus-Therian and Dragapult, with the latter two resisting First Impression. Knock Off is pretty self-explanitory, it now no longer needs to rely on prediction as much now that it has the ultimate progress maker move.

However, I figured that 135/115/103 offensive stats with Miasmaw's already excellent neutral coverage would become a bit too much of a headache, and having to prep for both physical and special sets in the builder would not be fun. Miasmaw doesn't need all that Sp. Attack, it doesn't use it as it is anyway, and it doesn't need to start. I settled on -21, which ensures that Special Miasmaw's Thunder can't 2HKO Utility Tapu Fini after Stealth Rock.
  • (115 SpA) 252 SpA Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 156-184 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
  • (94 SpA) 252 SpA Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 136-160 (39.5 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
I believe the combination of +11 Speed and Knock Off make Miasmaw a more passable and less prediction reliant offensive threat. Miasmaw has Poison coverage to hit Fairy types and Dragon + Dark is pretty great neutral coverage otherwise. In addition to Choice Band sets being able to make more progress, I also think Swords Dance sets could see some use, and potentially even outclass Choice Band variants. It is now fast enough to the point where I feel it could use this move and now it gets to keep its power without locking itself into a move or being weak to Stealth Rock.

Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Hammer
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Miasmaw @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- First Impression / Earthquake
- Dragon Hammer
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Miasmaw is now an offensive powerhouse, but I didn't wanna go too far. I avoided giving it U-turn because I thought that adding one super clickable move was enough, given its great coverage and its buffed Speed. I also avoided making it bulkier, because I think Miasmaw should be the kind of mon that is hard to get in, but when you do it will be very rewarding. Besides, its offensive tools are already jacked, and I think keeping it frail would help it stay balanced.
 
Last edited:
Ok so basically here's what we should do:

Final Submission

+U-Turn, +Dragon Darts -Swords Dance
+23 Spe(92 ->115)
- 23 Spa(115 -> 92)


This enables 2 sets:

Miasmaw @ Choice Band
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- First Impression
- Dragon Darts
- Megahorn
- U-turn//Close Combat/Earthquake/Poison Jab

Adamant 115 Speed notably still lets Miasmaw outrun Urshifu, while keeping the much-needed attack power from Adamant. Notably, Adamant Banded Maw with Darts is highly likely to 2hko bulky waters like Arghonaut, Slowbro, and Toxapex, and Megahorn can even tear through Bug resists. U-Turn is obviously helpful for chunking switchins so they can be in 2hko range the next time Miasmaw comes in. Also Banded Darts Ohkos defensive Torn.

Dragon Darts' calcs push Adamant Banded Maw over a threshold where, as crazy as it sounds, the combination of Darts + Megahorn has surprisingly good coverage against the current metagame. Glancing at the VR, the only mons A- and above not threatened by either move are Corviknight and Melmetal, the latter of which cannot switch in on EQ/CC.
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 206-246 (49.7 - 59.4%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 150-176 (49.3 - 57.8%) -- approx. 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 186-222 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 372-438 (102.7 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Level: 100
Jolly Nature
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Dragon Darts
- Poison Jab
- Close Combat/Earthquake
- U-turn

Here, 115 Speed is especially notable for getting the jump on Astrolotl, forcing it out and denying Regenerator. U-Turn is critical for Miasmaw as it gives really safe and strong click for the mon. It also notably allows Miasmaw to deny Regenerator from an opposing switch while also switching out itself, something it couldn't do before against slower Regen mons. Nothing too fancy about this set, it has 3 move coverage that is pretty tough to switch into outside of fat mons, and U-Turn to pivot out on answers.

After some consideration, I've also decided to remove SD for my buff package. I'm unsure of how good SD + 3 attacks will be given our new speed tier, but I'm fairly confident that these other 2 sets are useful enough to make Maw viable enough. I simply do not want to worry about the case where SD ends up being too strong and requiring a nerf.
 
Last edited:
WIP

+U-Turn
+Wild Charge
- 42 Sp Atk (73 SpAtk)
+7 Speed (99 Speed)
+13 Attack (148 Attack)


I'll go a slightly different route and instead pump everything into Maw's primary offensive stats, and leaving its defenses alone. (Also rounding out that annoying extra +2 in its BST).

I won't repeat the endless reasonings for u-turn, but Wild Charge is a useful coverage move to have to hit Fini, Pex, and the Metal Birds. Extra power in its base attack allows Maw to feel better about sacrificing band for HDB. 99 speed is useful for leveraging u-turn against non-scarf Lele and Shifu.
 
Final

+U-turn
+Knock Off
+Toxic
+23 Speed
+5 Atk
-55 SpA
+25 SpD

Limiting myself to a 570 BST, the 115 speed tier allows it to outspeed all of (in ascending order) tapu lele, urshifu, garchomp, kartana, and astrolotl. The increased special bulk - ideally - allows it to act as a spD kartana, switching in as a stopgap to decently strong stabs (such as zapdos' discharge or pyroak's overheat) which it is neutral to or resists and putting on offensive momentum with it's strong attacks (which have only gotten stronger) in dragon hammer, and the new additions u-turn, and the ever impossible to switch into knock off. U-turn in particular I feel could become miasmaw's defining move, as a stab u-turn off of a 140 base atk stat is not only extremely powerful, but also great support for a well structured team, particularly hstack which loves to run mons like tapu koko and victini that share a hdb pivot niche, that also support it well by acting as stopgaps for mons such as opposing tapu lele.

TL:DR U-turn and extra speed is vital as it gives it an extremely strong niche that is very gen 4 scizor-esque in its playstyle (other than the switching in bit)
 
Last edited:
damn StarFalcon555 back at it again with the controversial takes

WIP

+6 Spe (92 -> 98)
+20 SpA (115 -> 135)
-20 Def (60 -> 40)
-6 HP (85 -> 79)
+U-turn
+Gunk Shot


While looking at Miasmaw's movepool and stats, I noticed that Miasmaw actually has quite an expansive movepool, particularly on the special side. Bug/Dragon/Electric/(Fighting/Ground) coverage has been brought up a lot as excellent coverage for Miasmaw, and as such, Wild Charge has been brought up a lot here. I'm perfectly fine with it, but I think there's another angle this can be approached from - the special Electric moves angle. Miasmaw already gets Electric-type coverage in the form of both Thunderbolt and Thunder. The problem, however, is that Miasmaw's Special Attack is just not enough to deal with the specially bulky threats that Electric coverage has been most prominently proposed for. This buff package aims to remedy that while turning Miasmaw into an extremely unpredictable mixed wallbreaker that can smash through threats if you've brought the wrong wall. U-turn is still spammable, but on a buff package like this, it also becomes a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for Miasmaw, allowing it to use its newly buffed Speed tier to get out of matchups that may not be favorable to it and bringing in an opponent who can.

How will this work if Miasmaw is a primarily a Choice item user?

Like this:

Atomic Bomb! (Mixed Wallbreaker Miasmaw)

Atomic Bomb! (Miasmaw) @ Life Orb
Ability: Neutralizing Gas / Compound Eyes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Dragon Hammer
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Close Combat / Earthquake / Gunk Shot

This set makes great use of Miasmaw's new mixed offenses to hit all of its threats for great coverage and put a lot of pressure on the opponent's team due to Miasmaw's newfound ability to switch moves. Thunderbolt takes care of Scarf Fini just fine, but Thunder is better at taking out bulkier sets, as well as Venomicon-P. Compound Eyes can be run if you want to go this way, and it also helps out with Gunk Shot, a move I am in staunch agreement with adding to the moveset in general. It can be used here if you really hate Koko, Clef, Kerfluffle, and/or Jumbao.

Calcs:
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 192-229 (68.3 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 172-203 (50 - 59%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 205-244 (59.5 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 192-229 (55.8 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 234-278 (68 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 159-187 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venomicon: 187-221 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venomicon: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 177-211 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 250-296 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tomohawk: 291-343 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, this upgrade to Miasmaw's Special Attack lets it use Thunderbolt/Thunder to absolutely toast its checks and put a lot of pressure on them. This combined with powerful STAB moves and an extra good coverage type make Miasmaw a very scary breaker to switch into.

The one downside to this is the decrease in defense and HP, which, combined with the lack of HDB, will make it much harder to bring Miasmaw in on physical attackers like Pajantom, Saharaja, Garchomp, and Weavile. This is a necessary change, however, and will keep Miasmaw from just steamrolling through everything. Besides, Miasmaw is more concerned with switching into special attacks anyways.

Overall, this will make Miasmaw a very threatening combination of an offensive pivot and a wallbreaker, taking great advantage of its excellent coverage and STAB 135 base Attack U-turn to blow holes in teams while still keeping some very strong checks and counters.
 
Last edited:
damn StarFalcon555 back at it again with the controversial takes

WIP

+6 Spe (92 -> 98)
+20 SpA (115 -> 135)
-20 Def (60 -> 40)
-6 HP (85 -> 79)
+U-turn
+Gunk Shot


While looking at Miasmaw's movepool and stats, I noticed that Miasmaw actually has quite an expansive movepool, particularly on the special side. Bug/Dragon/Electric/(Fighting/Ground) coverage has been brought up a lot as excellent coverage for Miasmaw, and as such, Wild Charge has been brought up a lot here. I'm perfectly fine with it, but I think there's another angle this can be approached from - the special Electric moves angle. Miasmaw already gets Electric-type coverage in the form of both Thunderbolt and Thunder. The problem, however, is that Miasmaw's Special Attack is just not enough to deal with the specially bulky threats that Electric coverage has been most prominently proposed for. This buff package aims to remedy that while turning Miasmaw into an extremely unpredictable mixed wallbreaker that can smash through threats if you've brought the wrong wall. U-turn is still spammable, but on a buff package like this, it also becomes a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card for Miasmaw, allowing it to use its newly buffed Speed tier to get out of matchups that may not be favorable to it and bringing in an opponent who can.

How will this work if Miasmaw is a primarily a Choice item user?

Like this:

Atomic Bomb! (Mixed Wallbreaker Miasmaw)

Atomic Bomb! (Miasmaw) @ Life Orb
Ability: Neutralizing Gas / Compound Eyes
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Dragon Hammer / Dragon Rush
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Close Combat / Earthquake / Gunk Shot

This set makes great use of Miasmaw's new mixed offenses to hit all of its threats for great coverage and put a lot of pressure on the opponent's team due to Miasmaw's newfound ability to switch moves. Thunderbolt takes care of Scarf Fini just fine, but Thunder is better at taking out bulkier sets, as well as Venomicon-P. Compound Eyes can be run if you want to go this way, and it also helps out with Gunk Shot, a move I am in staunch agreement with adding to the moveset in general. It can be used here if you really hate Koko, Clef, Kerfluffle, and/or Jumbao.

Calcs:
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 192-229 (68.3 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 172-203 (50 - 59%) -- 69.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 40+ SpD Tapu Fini: 205-244 (59.5 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 192-229 (55.8 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 234-278 (68 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 159-187 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venomicon: 187-221 (50 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Venomicon: 229-270 (61.2 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 177-211 (58.2 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 291-343 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 250-296 (62.5 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tomohawk: 291-343 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
128 SpA Life Orb Miasmaw Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 364-429 (106.7 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see, this upgrade to Miasmaw's Special Attack lets it use Thunderbolt/Thunder to absolutely toast its checks and put a lot of pressure on them. This combined with powerful STAB moves and an extra good coverage type make Miasmaw a very scary breaker to switch into.

The one downside to this is the decrease in defense and HP, which, combined with the lack of HDB, will make it much harder to bring Miasmaw in on physical attackers like Pajantom, Saharaja, Garchomp, and Weavile. This is a necessary change, however, and will keep Miasmaw from just steamrolling through everything. Besides, Miasmaw is more concerned with switching into special attacks anyways.

Overall, this will make Miasmaw a very threatening combination of an offensive pivot and a wallbreaker, taking great advantage of its excellent coverage and STAB 135 base Attack U-turn to blow holes in teams while still keeping some very strong checks and counters.
I mean, I would love to (and definitely want to) keep Miasmaw’s special capabilities and not nerf it’s SpA at all, but I think making this thing a 98 Speed wallbreaker with Neutralizing Gas, 135/135 offenses, amazing coverage, STAB U-Turn AND both Swords Dance + Nasty Plot is way too much. I’d say just keep the SpA and HP the same with only a slight nerf to Def (-10 maybe), give it the +6 Spe, +11 SpD and +Gunk Shot everyone else is going for and also give it Knock Off + Wild Charge.

Your buffs would essentially make the thing a more frail, but faster and much more powerful Kyurem, which is something that was already found to be too much for OU although I found the Icicle Spear set complaints to be reaching a bit, I gotta admit it did fuck with its usual checks and counters alot.

And tbh I would love for Miasmaw to be buffed this much, but your buff package basically turns Miasmaw into a pre-nerf Aurumoth kind of thing where instead of being an overall well balanced but still strong mon, it just turns into the buff-leader’s dream Bug attacker.
 
Last edited:

Wulfanator

Clefable's wish came true!
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top CAP Contributor
Moderator
I feel like this should go without saying but be reasonable with your proposals. If you are submitting a lengthy list of major changes, you better have concrete reasoning for why. How is your proposed change not overtuning Miasmaw?

Stat adjustments should have relevant benchmarks associated with them. If you are increasing something like attack, I want to see what matchups this new attack stat is impacting. What 3hkos are now 2hkos? What 2hkos are now ohkos? If you are increasing defenses, what attacks is it taking more reliably now? Is it avoiding ohkos? Is it making attacks 3hkos or 4hkos? If they are only changes for the sake of change, I will be viewing them as meaningless additions.

If you have multiple move additions, do you expect all these moves to be used at once? If not, does this risk making Miasmaw more obnoxious to switch into since you must account for these new moves along with the coverage it already gets?

I am willing to let users REALLY push the envelope with their submissions. The catch is that you will need to give me the strongest possible argument for why we should deviate from more accessible tools and adjustments.
 
FINAL SUBMISSION

Movepool Changes:
+U-turn
+Knock Off
+Gunk Shot
+Wild Charge

Stat Changes:
-8 Def (60 > 52)
+11 SpD (85 > 96)
+6 Spe (92 > 98)
Old BST: 572
New BST: 581


Like my earlier rendition of this buff package, this adds the big four of U-Turn/Knock Off/Gunk Shot/Wild Charge, buffs Speed to beat all positively natured 97s and below like non-scarf Lele, Colossoil, Volkraken, non-scarf Jumbao, Naviathan, Urshifu and ties with Hydreigon, and buffs SpD to survive uninvested Moonblast from Tapu Fini and Clefable while only being 2HKO by Slowbro’s Ice Beam 6.6% of the time. Defense is lowered to keep the BST closer to original and because a lot of what we want Miasmaw to target better are mostly special attackers and specially-offensive walls and sponges (Zap, the Tapus, Cyclohm, Clefable, Slowbro, etc.) and it doesn’t hurt for balance sake to keep Miasmaw frail on the side it doesn’t get attacked on too much anyways. All this is done while still preserving Miasmaw’s special stat that isn’t used all to often anyways and giving Miasmaw just a modest 9+ increase in BST, less than even alot of GameFreak buffs (+10-20 BST on average).

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miasmaw (52 Def): 138-162 (44.3 - 52%) -- 16.8% chance to 2HKO

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 204-240 (65.5 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Miasmaw: 74-87 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 91% chance to 4HKO

Main Set: Physical Neutralizing Gas Wallbreaker
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
- U-turn
- Dragon Hammer / Outrage
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot / Earthquake / Close Combat / Wild Charge

I already explained the reasoning for the added moves in my first rendition of my buff package (STAB pivoting attack that isn’t easily punished, utility attack that provides dark coverage and synergizes well with NGas in limiting how much opponents can do, fairy-killer coverage and something that hits Corv and bulky waters better) and explained the EV changes above, so I don’t feel like there’s much left for me to say. An overall modest buff package that gives Miasmaw what it really needs: Spammable coverage and STAB that isn’t overly easy to punish or tank (aside from Wild Charge cause of recoil damage), a slight buff to SpD to fare better against its more specially-offensive oriented checks and counters and a slight buff to Speed to help outpace major checks such as Tapu Lele, Urshifu, Colossoil and tying with Hydreigon.


:Miasmaw:
 
Last edited:
Final Submission

+U-Turn
+Knock Off

+18 Speed
+15 Special Defense
-30 Special Attack

New statline: 85/135/60/85/100/110

110 Speed is enough to run Adamant and outpace Base 95s, namely Tapu Lele. Urshifu-R's physdef is a tad too high for me to care about outspeeding it, and if you want Astro to be threatened legit just support Darek's spread.

Extra Special Defense to make bringing it in easier + make interactions with Pyroak more favorable.

top is 85/85, bottom is 85/100

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 148-176 (47.5 - 56.5%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 224-266 (72 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 198-234 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 257-306 (82.6 - 98.3%) -- not a KO
216+ SpA Pyroak Overheat over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 227-268 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- not a KO

252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 280-331 (90 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 187-222 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage
252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 246-289 (79 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 163-193 (52.4 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage

72+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 147-174 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Doom Desire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 256-303 (82.3 - 97.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 129-153 (41.4 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
72+ SpA Equilibra Doom Desire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 225-265 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 294-348 (94.5 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 258-306 (82.9 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 282-333 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 246-291 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Potential set:
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Dragon Hammer/Megahorn/Recover?

U-Turn lets you pivot around the opponent and synergizes well with both Boots and Neutralizing Gas shutting down the likes of Static or Stamina. Earthquake is strong coverage that scares out Heatran, Equilibra, Slowking-Galar, and Rotom. Poison Jab lets you threaten Fairy-types like Clefable, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini, and any free poisons you might get on a switch-in helps. The last slot depends: Dragon Hammer is helpful for strong neutral STAB and something to smack defensive Garchomp, Megahorn is your best nuke option, and Recover is there mostly if Miasmaw wants to pivot against something multiple times during a match. Those are just examples and there's probably a lot of different stuff you could run. Anything that annoys this set like Corviknight is just getting U-Turned on anyway and inviting them in might be part of a bigger strategy.
 
Last edited:
WIP

+U-Turn
+Knock Off
+Gunk Shot
+Wild Charge
+Toxic
+10 Speed (92 ->102)
+20 Sp Def (85 ->105)

-20 Sp Atk (115 ->95)


Tl;Dr: Speed ties Garchomp, Able to run fast/bulky pivot sets (think Tornadus-T), Better spammable moves to target pivots, Less Special attack without it becoming useless

These changes are meant to mirror many of the suggested changes, but I wanted to put it all in one package. U-Turn and Knock Off are aversive spammable moves that target the pivots that Miasmaw was originally concepted to target (Slowtwins, Toxepex, etc). Gunk Shot I wanted to add to give Miasmaw more outs against Fairies and substantially more offensive pressure. Wild Charge is given to psuedo replace Tbolt/Thunder on more physically-inclined sets at the cost of longevity. Toxic can give it another spammable move on more stallbreaker-esque sets that feature Taunt or set-up moves.

The stat changes are pretty simple. I decided to go the route of speed tying Garchomp instead of outright outspeeding. I don't think it should be able to revenge kill Garchomp for free, however I feel like below base 100 is awkward for it. It would otherwise be outsped by Hydreigon and the plethora of base 100 speed mons. 102 speed gives it just enough to make progress without being overbearing imo, while also giving the added benefit of now outspeeding Nidoking with Adamant/Lonely sets. The +20 special defense can give it better bulk against special fire types (Pyroak, Heatran), water types (Krillowatt, Tapu Fini), and electric types (Zapdos, Tapu Koko) that it would've really wanted to switch into safely before. It also presents the possible opportunity to run AV sets with a much more advantageous special bulk, being able to better pressure bulky flying types w/o heavy special attack investment.

I did drop special attack like most of the packages here, but I wanted to keep it salvageable for mixed or nasty plot sets. 95 is nothing to ride home about like 115, but it has just enough to pressure mons like Corviknight and Moltres-G. This leaves Miasmaw at a +10 base total increase overall, but I didn't want to resort to taking away from it's already pitiful defense and average HP.

I really wanted to add Dragon Darts here as well because I REALLY liked the idea of 2KOing more neutral targets and breaking through subs, but in the end I felt that Miasmaw has more than enough tools with the changes I presented, especially considering bug/dragon/electric/(ground or fighting) is great coverage.

Here's a couple sets that can be ran with this buff package:

Banded
Miasmaw @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- First Impression / U-Turn
- Close Combat / Earthquake
- Wild Charge / Gunk Shot / U-Turn

LO Stallbreaker
Miasmaw @ Life Orb
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Gunk Shot
- Taunt / Toxic
- Earthquake / Wild Charge

HDB Stallbreaker
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance / Taunt
- Earthquake / Close Combat

Offensive Pivot
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Assault Vest
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Toxic
 
Last edited:

Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
Final Submission

+8 Speed (92 to 100)
+U-turn
+Gunk Shot
+Dragon Darts


Going to keep this one pretty simple, Miasmaw doesn't need anything fancy.

The Speed buff keeps Miasmaw above Lele and Urshifu, allowing it to U-turn safely on both of them, I debated if I thought forcing the Speed tie with max Speed Zapdos had merit, and I think giving Zapdos some pause would be a substantial buff just given the prevalence of Zapdos in the metagame. Also keeps Miasmaw slightly safer from Hurricane, given Speed ties and miss chance its always in Maw's favor. I don't like the idea of buffing Miasmaw's Speed too high past marks like Garchomp and Astrolotl; I think this lends Miasmaw a little too hard to a potential sweeper role with Swords Dance. I don't see this as a particularly desirable outcome for this buff; its another sweeper than shreds Arghonaut for offense. In fact, it shreds pretty much every defensive cornerstone in the metagame except Corviknight and Skarmory (who still take a ton +2 Close Combat.) I like wallbreaker Miasmaw, not wallbreaker into sweeper Miasmaw that invokes memories of old Venomicon-E.

U-turn is good shit. I don't think Miasmaw is leaving this process without the move. Gunk Shot applies better pressure to Clefable and Tapu Fini than Miasmaw's other moves. Dragon Darts is significantly better STAB than Dragon Hammer; not only does it avoid Rocky Helmet chip, Choice Band sets have a significantly better chance to 2HKO Arghonaut and Toxapex.
 
Last edited:
Final Submission

-Bug-type
-Swords Dance
-Nasty Plot

+Poison-type
+Toxic


I'm posting a typing change because I think its a cleaner solution than the others. I have a segment at the bottom with some justification to do this over a stat and movepool-focused buff.

Miasmaw has the following flaws:
-Hates hazards
-Wants to carry an item that isnt HDB
-Greatly annoyed by Fairies and common mons in the tier
-Awful STAB combination leading to awkward movepool
-Lack of meaningful resists
-Cant actually sit on walls/common Regen-mons and do Neutralizing Gas things

Poison/Dragon + Toxic fixes more issues at its core than other options listed in the thread.
+You now have more item freedom, leading to CB or other choices- also improving the quality of Recover sets
+You now have a superior STAB combo which pairs easily with a 3rd coverage type
+You have a much better set of resists that leads to switch-in chances on more mons, amplifies the benefits of Recover and could even lead to more defensive stallbreaker sets
+You provide your team with a Toxic immunity/tspikes absorber, and optional Toxic user, giving more purpose
+
Toxic is a decent mid-ground option to have against non-Steels

Despite gaining a ground weakness you will now find switchins on considerably more mons, taking neutral hits on the special side from uninvested mons and notably switching into Fairies like Koko, Fini, and Clef. While the switchins remain limited, it grants a far wider range than Bug/Dragon, is less devastated by Knock Offs, and also grants a big boost in offensive capability.
Poison/Dragon/Fighting coverage from 135 hits really hard, especially with Poison now STAB-boosted. But if you want a dedicated stallbreaker, you can go for Recover + Toxic, really helping to break down walls like Argho. With spdef investment (which no longer becomes a joke once you're free from the chains of bug typing) you can sit on walls like Zapdos and pivots like Torn-T and even Ice Beam Slowbro and ruin their day, taking neutral Hurricanes with relative ease. Forgoing Toxic, you can still run a specially defensive spread and simply boost the impact of teammates' status moves (for instance toxicing torn with your lando, then switching into Miasmaw to cause misery) and run 3 attacks + recovery. Poison Jab also inflicts poison, which can be enough to be a nuisance to the above walls.

A lot of the other buffs have to deal with other wallbreakers still being straight-up better alternatives- for example Lele, Shifu, Weavile and even Syclant all exist in the same tier as this and can provide nuclear damage while being less costly to put on a team. This clean typing change grants some super-unique strengths outside of wallbreaking, like making guaranteed progress vs Torn-T.

Miasmaw @ Choice Band / Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Poison Jab
- Close Combat
- Filler

Offensive Spread
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 112-133 (36 - 42.7%)
252 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 121-144 (38.9 - 46.3%)
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miasmaw: 112-133 (36 - 42.7%)

252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 410-486 (104 - 123.3%)
252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 272-324 (69 - 82.2%)

Miasmaw @ Black Sludge
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Hammer
- Close Combat
- Recover
- Toxic / Poison Jab

Defensive Spread
0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 115-136 (30.7 - 36.3%)
8 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 104-124 (27.8 - 33.1%)
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 103-123 (27.5 - 32.8%)
216+ SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 112-132 (29.9 - 35.2%)
0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miasmaw: 130-154 (34.7 - 41.1%)



SD and Nasty Plot have been dropped here not only to clean up movepool but to reduce the number of side-sets that could pop up, making this buff package clearer in its landing zone. There's a chance that SD + 3 atks could be an unstoppable force offensively and create more matchup fishing than its worth worrying about, so I've removed these boosting moves as either way it won't have much of a positive impact on Miasmaw. I think there's still room to drastically cut Miasmaw's movepool, but for now I'm leaving this as is.

Miasmaw can still be walled with Poison/Dragon typing- mons like Arghonaut, Slowbro and Corvi can tank a jolly CB set (and good prediction will always stump it), while mons like Toxapex and Corvi can cause issues for a Toxic set. But it'll find switchins throughout the game to threaten more mons, and Toxic sets cause problems for CB sets and vice versa. NGas dampens the opponent's ability to make a safe scout for set choice- fulfilling the concept quite nicely. I actually don't think CB gets any easier to click with with Poison/Dragon, but I think that's also probably for the best because it gets punished less for clicking wrong and gains more for clicking right.
Not touching its speed also keeps it in check, with 95s and 100s being options to revenge kill a CB set, or make an offensive switch on a Toxic set. Knock Off is still an excellent thing to do on the switch to prevent the nuclear power of CB.

Flavor and identity:
There is a high precedent of Bug themed mons not being bugs and instead being Dragons or Poison- Flygon, Drapion, Giratina, Fidgit, Goodra, Flapple. Miasmaw has heavy poison and dragon themes, so the flavor is still excellent.

As for being a huge change to Miasmaw's identity- I never vibed with Bug typing since its inception, and it always stuck out as the weirdest part of Miasmaw through the process and long after. Like I said in my first post, I dont think moves like First Impression are a part of Miasmaw's identity, with previous sets feeling janky- actually over its whole lifetime, Dragon Hammer is undoubtably its most clicked move/main identity, with the rest of the moveslots being a nebulous mess. I also don't like the idea of cramming more moves onto this thing, none of which cure its heavy 4MSS, give it unique purpose, or improve on its existing ability to hit the whole tier super effectively. Since everything is on the table and a lot of the other buffs are similar, I figured it would be cool to write this up even tho I know a lot of people are vehemently anti-typing change.
lets goooo
 
Last edited:
WIP

+U-Turn
+Toxic
+Knock Off
+Dragon Dance
-Poison Jab

+11 Speed (92 -> 103)
+20 Special Defense (85 -> 105)
-31 Special Attack (115 -> 84)


U-Turn + Neutralalizing Gas definitely makes for, in my opinion, an impeccable combination utilizing STAB + NGas to effectively let Miasmaw pivot without any consequences. This combo is especially strong on Choice Band sets where Miasmaw can click U-Turn on most of its swapins. Knock Off gives Miasmaw extra utility and threatens mons like Ferrothorn by removing Leftovers/Rocky Helmet (Improving on its inconsequential U-Turn spamming.) Dragon Dance allows Miasmaw to drop Agility/Swords Dance and run an extra coverage move instead (and finally lets me run subdance 2 attacks). Toxic lets Miasmaw badly poison mons like non-magic guard Clefable and unsuspecting Arghonauts. Removing Poison Jab as coverage adds (most notably) Tapu Fini, Clefable, and several other Fairy types that are prominent in the meta (however u could always use poison fang).

-31 SPAtk lets Miasmaw maintain its BST of 562 and leaves it with enough SPAtk for those who use SPAtk Mia (also lets it OHKO Cawmodore after BDrum + Sitrus even at a minimum roll. but lets be real who even uses cawm anymore).

11 Speed lets Miasmaw outspeed threats such as Tapu Lele, Garchomp, Pajantom, and more.

20 SPDef lets Miasmaw swap in and take hits from pivoters such as Slowbro and Glowking, allowing it to threaten them out, further strengthening its pivot blocking gimmick.

The sets used in the calcs below are listed as CAP sets, so I’ll be using those as examples.
Old
4 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 148-176 (47.5 - 56.5%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
New
4 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 124-148 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Future Sight does around the same damage as Ice Beam, so it’s not listed.)

Old
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 178-211 (57.2 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 135-159 (43.4 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
New
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Future Sight vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 151-178 (48.5 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO (Not very huge, but it’s definitely a difference.)
124 SpA Slowking-Galar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Miasmaw: 112-133 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (Again, not very huge, but going from a chance to 2hko to a guaranteed 3hko is very nice.)
 
Final Submission
+ U-Turn
+ Gunk Shot
+ Wild Charge
+11 Speed (92 ->103)
+18 Defense (60 -> 78)


Amalgamation of other buff packets:
  • U-turn is a clear universal addition that synergises effectively with a physical bug type.
  • Gunk Shot nails fairies with good luck and prediction, particularly now outspeeding lele and gunk shottting it.
  • Wild charge so that it is not obliged to go mixed for electric coverage.
  • Speed hits the benchmark to nearly always outspeed Garchomp, good against tank chomp but bad against scale shot swords dance.
  • Defense allows it to switch into Urshifu-r (no longer can it one shot this with band) as well as Garchomp (earthquake only 3hkos) in order to make predictions more rewarding and easier to do.
 
Last edited:

snake_rattler

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
Something I’d like to point out to submissions: make sure you’re motivating why your changes will make Miasmaw better. If you’re adding U-turn to Miasmaw, don’t justify it with Choice Band. if Miasmaw has U-turn, its best item is going to be Heavy-Duty Boots. Unless you want to manage hazards for the entire game, Choice Band Miasmaw is almost certainly not worth it because Stealth Rock and other hazard chip is going to wear it down incredibly quickly, especially if its safe midground move is U-turn.

While Wild Charge and Knock Off are certainly good moves, they’re going to be more moves on the list competing for spots on Miasmaw’s moveset, which is already pretty long, and these moves aren’t particularly strong. Of course Knock Off is the best move in the game, but between U-turn AND Knock Off, Miasmaw feels like it’d be (somehow) strapped for power between its final two moveslots because it’s already running two moves with weak BP. imo you’d have to change Miasmaw’s stats pretty heavily to make it really be ok running a move utility-focused moveset like that. Wild Charge’s damage output on Heavy-Duty Boots sets, and trying to slot in Taunt (or Swords Dance, as if Miasmaw could really run that without severe modifications to its stats) sounds like MORE moveslot challenges. Even if you say that you’re willing to try CB Wild Charge…do you really want to do that when Ground-types are mandatory on teams?

252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 152-180 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Gunk Shot feels like the only additional coverage move I’ve seen in submissions that include U-turn + other moves that actually feels like it could make it onto Miasmaw’s movesets since it actually deals meaningfully more damage to Clefable and Tapu Fini than Poison Jab does.

252 Atk Miasmaw Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Miasmaw Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 238-282 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 160-190 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I’m not calling anyone out specifically here, but basically, even if your nerf package lists a bunch of changes to Miasmaw that should make it better, each change doesn’t necessarily make Miasmaw better by the same amount. In the last day of submissions, make sure that your package shows how each new move will actually help Miasmaw, in combination with any stat changes you that may be applied. Make a moveset that shows that Miasmaw can actually run the new moves without leaving holes in its coverage. It’ll all help Wulf make informed decisions when the thread closes.
 

quziel

I am the Scientist now
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a member of the Battle Simulator Staff
Moderator
Yo, here's my buff

We make Miasmaw end the game by turn 25 in your favor or your opponent's favor.

+Explosion
+Wild Charge
+U-Turn
+4 Speed
-Swords Dance
-Flash Cannon
-Iron Head


Lets be honest, if you are running CB maw, or even HDB maw, you're getting worn down very quickly. U-Turn, while the largest buff we could really give the mon, also contributes to this. If you're running CB Maw, you're dying in approximately 4 switchins, and if you're running HDB Maw, you have a longer lifespan, but your longevity still isn't great.

Explosion and Wild Charge lean into this, and really emphasize the limited lifespan of our mayfly, letting you 2HKO or OHKO almost every wall in the meta with the correct coverage move, but forcing Miasmaw to take significant damage while doing so. Neutralizing Gas helps us a lot in this regard, as while we are taking significant damage in the process, the opponent cannot use Intimidate or Regenerator to mitigate this damage. This positions Miasmaw as a mon that can very quickly deal a lot of damage to the opponent's team, can remove a lot of their ability to extend the game, but will be wearing down, or KOing itself in the process.

We keep the heavy prediction needed to use the Bug, but increase its upsides. Now if it makes a good read on Clef coming in, Clef is straight up gone. If we make a good read on Fini coming in, Fini is dying the next turn. U-turn helps us a lot on this, giving a relatively safe move to use, and tilts the decision tree in our favor. 4 Speed serves to outrun Tapu Lele, but crucially not the faster mons. This is intentional, as Tapu Lele is a very accessible matchup for us, given its physical frailty, and

I've removed steel coverage here as its unnecessary with Poison Jab and Sludge Bomb. This isn't necessary, and I can strike this from the buff package if necessary, just wanted to clean up movepool. Swords Dance is also gone, as it removes a lot of the prediction inherent in using Boom on the mon, letting us brute force damage onto even steel types, and I don't think that risk is necessary (note, even then noone would run it, just don't wanna open that line of discussion, and its been irrelevant on Miasmaw forever).

Set 1: [Choice Band Breaker]
Miasmaw @ Choice Band
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn / First Impression
- Explosion / Wild Charge / Poison Jab
- Dragon Hammer
- Earthquake / Close Combat

This is the main set I'm designing around, and can very easily end the game in a matter of turns (in one way or another depending if you read right). Explosion is a nuke beyond nukes, but similar to CB Lando, you only get one use (CB Lando is not very good). Wild Charge is our second slash, and gives a bit more flexibility while losing a lot of immediate power. This would not be an incredibly easy set to run.

252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 224-264 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 162-192 (53.2 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Miasmaw Explosion vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 426-502 (108.1 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

HDB sets as outlined above will work, but without CB we don't get easily accessible OHKOs with Explosion, leaving a set of U-turn/Wild Charge/Dhammer/CC as the optimal.

Set 2: [HDB Pivot]
Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Dragon Hammer

Not going to be doing as many calcs here, as those above have already outlined this set. This is a bit weaker than competing HDB sets due to notably lower speed, but would still be relatively easily discernable compared to the CB set.
 

snake_rattler

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
+ U-Turn
+ Gunk Shot
+ 7 Speed (now 99 Speed)


Miasmaw @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Gunk Shot
- Earthquake
- Dragon Hammer / Taunt

The buff flavor isn't anything new, but I really think that Wild Charge is a lackluster addition to Miasmaw, as shown by the following calcs:

252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 152-180 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Miasmaw Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 108-128 (35.5 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

I really don't think Choice Band Miasmaw will be a good set, especially with U-turn as its premier move to click. Therefore, I wanted to present a buff package option that didn't include Wild Charge as a confounding factor.

-----

U-turn is now the best move for Miasmaw to click. Although this set is walled by Corviknight and Ferrothorn, it can now U-turn into Magnezone pretty safely. Typically, wallbreakers that require Magnezone support land somewhere in the B-range of the VR, which is much better than where Miasmaw is now.

Of course, Miasmaw has other options for moveslots like Close Combat to hit Ferrothorn, but moveslot issues begin to creep in once you do that.

-----

Gunk Shot is an absolutely HUGE move for Miasmaw, as it allows Miasmaw to poison Zapdos while still dealing good damage to it, which runs very bulky sets nowadays:

252 Atk Miasmaw Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 109-129 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Miasmaw Dragon Hammer vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 123-145 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 94.6% chance to 3HKO

Since you don't need Dragon Hammer to chunk Zapdos, you could potentially slot in Taunt over Dragon Hammer to solidify the Toxapex matchup, but then Pokemon like Venomicon-E, Garchomp, and Landorus-T switch in a lot more easily.

Gunk Shot also means that Clefable and Tapu Fini really aren't consistent answers into Miasmaw, which further allows Miasmaw to specialize as a complete nuke to slower defensive Pokemon and as a Dragon-type that isn't too bothered by Fairy-types.

252 Atk Miasmaw Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 274-324 (69.5 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Clefable: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Miasmaw Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 238-282 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Miasmaw Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 160-190 (46.6 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

-----

Base 99 Speed gets the jump on a few other wallbreakers like Tapu Lele and Urshifu but still loses out to max speed Garchomp, nerfed Venomicon-E, and other faster friends, meaning it's very possible to force out offensively. It still has its mediocre bulk with this package. I considered pushing to Base 103 Speed, but I'm not sure if that's necessary for Miasmaw - willing to reconsider, though.

-----

Overall, I think this buff package allows Miasmaw to harass defensive teams better, gives it a jump over some potential revenge killers, and allows Miasmaw to position itself more effectively throughout battles.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top