Metagame Cross Evolution

For Cross Evolution, the base species is still technically the species.
Not true, Cross Evolutions are their own species and can't use species-specific effects at all.

Note however that the client still thinks that they're the base species (mainly for the purposes of giving them a sprite) and so it will try to apply boosts from Eviolite etc. but this is a lie.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
Not true, Cross Evolutions are their own species and can't use species-specific effects at all.
Note however that the client still thinks that they're the base species (mainly for the purposes of giving them a sprite) and so it will try to apply boosts from Eviolite etc. but this is a lie.
Oh god, oh fuck. I guess PlaceboChu was working pretty well regardless, lol.
 

in the hills

spreading confusion
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Any update on Mega Rayquaza being allowed on the main server? Currently Mega Rayquaza Clause is still active but I'm not sure if that was just an oversight. I think Mega Rayquaza will be really fun to test and honestly I think that it has a good chance of staying in the meta given the power creep of the meta.

Anyways someone already brought it up but it's something I've been meaning to bring up for a while-The restriction on stats that go below 1 or above 255 should be removed as it's an arbitrary rule that has been patched in other metas since the last time Cross Evolution has seen a lot of play/had an active tier leader so I'm assuming that's the only reason it hasn't been dealt with yet Rereading the thread shows that it was the original TL"s idea so I hope that new leadership will be willing to listen to reason. Pokemon should cap out at 1 or 255 instead of being flat out banned as other metagames do and if that makes something (Chansey @ Clefable was mentioned but idt it'd be any more ridiculous than type: null @ quagsire) overpowered then that threat should be banned accordingly. The rule is really outdated and I don't think it's fair to keep it in place rather than adapting to what other metagames are now doing to deal with stats going under/over the minimum or maximum.

On to more exciting note I'm really excited this meta has finally gotten LCOTM! Gonna post a couple fun sets I've used in the past couple weeks since I've been playing a lot on ROM lately
archen.gif
Archen @ Hitmonlee (70/197/63/74/120/122)
Hitmonlee (Archen) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
Archen hits ridiculously hard in this meta and is really hard to wall without hard resists like Doublade or Onix. 122 isn't best speed tier, and Head Smash recoil severely limits its wallbreaking potential, but its immediate power makes it a great threat. Just a few calcs to show off how strong it is
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 243-286 (50.2 - 59%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Gligar @ Gyarados)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Onix: 188-222 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO (Onix @ Vaporeon, one of its better checks)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Type: Null: 412-486 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Type: Null @ Milotic)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 180-213 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Doublade @ Flygon, probably runs more defense investment but 27% chance to 2hko worst situation is nice.)
Ho-oh.gif

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Atk / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Curse
- Recover
Ho-Oh is actually really nice in this meta, checking a ton of threats such as Rhydon @ Gallade, most Gligar sets, and Spritzee. Curse is a great tech that increases its wallbreaking and defensive capabilities, and it has a lot of setup opportunities against walls like Gligar and Spritzee. It's important to have a cleric because Ho-Oh is highly prone to Toxic, and as always you need solid hazard control to deal with Stealth Rocks. Ho-Oh's setup opportunities are pretty much nonexistent against offense however, but it does have a strong initial damage output and is capable of 1HKOing a lot of offensive threats that think they can switch in.

That's all for now, but I'm really excited for Crossevo as LCOTM! Hopefully there's a lot of fun techs people discover throughout the month
 
Doublade -> Gallade: gets STAB on all sorts of useful Fighting moves, and has good priority options. Takes advantage of no increase in SpA.

Honedge -> Gyarados: gets a wrecking ball of a Gyro Ball (taking advantage of huge power addition with small speed addition), and has Special weaknesses that get suppressed by the increased SpD.

Tangela -> Lucario: Vacuum Wave / Aura Sphere and good typing.
(alternative) Murkrow -> Lucario: There's a lot that can be done with this.

Tangela -> Lilligant: Own Tempo Petal Dance sweep
Roselia -> Ludicolo: Own Tempo Petal Dance sweep
 
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So, I haven't actually seen it yet, but any suggestions for defensive checks to Electabuzz (Greninja)? What moves do they typically use? I've been using Frillish (Umbreon), but it doesn't seem to provide anything to the team other than checking the aforementioned Pokemon.
 
So, I haven't actually seen it yet, but any suggestions for defensive checks to Electabuzz (Greninja)? What moves do they typically use? I've been using Frillish (Umbreon), but it doesn't seem to provide anything to the team other than checking the aforementioned Pokemon.

Best counter I've found is Grimer-alola mixed with Milotic. And I've explained what other purpose it has as well(months ago, I think it was page seven?).

Other counters/Checks include Dusclops(Reuniclus or Clefable), Chinchou(Milotic), Tentacool(Umbreon) etc. Edit: I'm aware that Greninja gives electabuzz grass knot but Chinchou is pretty damn light lol. Grass knot won't do any notable damage so chinchou x milotic still counts as a hard check.

Greninja x Electabuzz typically runs boltbeam with Low kick or Cross chop and finally gunk shot or spikes. Hope this was helpful!

Any update on Mega Rayquaza being allowed on the main server? Currently Mega Rayquaza Clause is still active but I'm not sure if that was just an oversight. I think Mega Rayquaza will be really fun to test and honestly I think that it has a good chance of staying in the meta given the power creep of the meta.

Anyways someone already brought it up but it's something I've been meaning to bring up for a while-The restriction on stats that go below 1 or above 255 should be removed as it's an arbitrary rule that has been patched in other metas since the last time Cross Evolution has seen a lot of play/had an active tier leader so I'm assuming that's the only reason it hasn't been dealt with yet Rereading the thread shows that it was the original TL"s idea so I hope that new leadership will be willing to listen to reason. Pokemon should cap out at 1 or 255 instead of being flat out banned as other metagames do and if that makes something (Chansey @ Clefable was mentioned but idt it'd be any more ridiculous than type: null @ quagsire) overpowered then that threat should be banned accordingly. The rule is really outdated and I don't think it's fair to keep it in place rather than adapting to what other metagames are now doing to deal with stats going under/over the minimum or maximum.

On to more exciting note I'm really excited this meta has finally gotten LCOTM! Gonna post a couple fun sets I've used in the past couple weeks since I've been playing a lot on ROM lately
View attachment 188750 Archen @ Hitmonlee (70/197/63/74/120/122)
Hitmonlee (Archen) @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
Archen hits ridiculously hard in this meta and is really hard to wall without hard resists like Doublade or Onix. 122 isn't best speed tier, and Head Smash recoil severely limits its wallbreaking potential, but its immediate power makes it a great threat. Just a few calcs to show off how strong it is
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 243-286 (50.2 - 59%) -- 77.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Gligar @ Gyarados)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Onix: 188-222 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO (Onix @ Vaporeon, one of its better checks)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Type: Null: 412-486 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Type: Null @ Milotic)
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Archen Head Smash vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Doublade: 180-213 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Doublade @ Flygon, probably runs more defense investment but 27% chance to 2hko worst situation is nice.)
View attachment 188751
Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Atk / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Curse
- Recover
Ho-Oh is actually really nice in this meta, checking a ton of threats such as Rhydon @ Gallade, most Gligar sets, and Spritzee. Curse is a great tech that increases its wallbreaking and defensive capabilities, and it has a lot of setup opportunities against walls like Gligar and Spritzee. It's important to have a cleric because Ho-Oh is highly prone to Toxic, and as always you need solid hazard control to deal with Stealth Rocks. Ho-Oh's setup opportunities are pretty much nonexistent against offense however, but it does have a strong initial damage output and is capable of 1HKOing a lot of offensive threats that think they can switch in.

That's all for now, but I'm really excited for Crossevo as LCOTM! Hopefully there's a lot of fun techs people discover throughout the month
That Ho-oh set seems pretty damn lit. I think I'll try it too(couldn't think of what to run on it other than making it defensive, but Curse sounds promising).
 
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Heres a porygon2 x vivillon set I wanna share. combound eyes with hurricane, thunder and blizzard + quiver dance.

Vivillon (Porygon2) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Blizzard
- Thunder
- Quiver Dance


Edit: and a tangela x sylveon set. it turns tangela into mono fairy.

Sylveon (Tangela) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpA / 44 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Leech Seed
 
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Knuckstrike

Hi I'm FIREEEE
is a Tiering Contributor
Illusion is pretty cool to use, unfortunately the simulator borks whenever you try to use it. Its sprites don't appear at all, and it gives the 'illusion' that you have 8 Pokémon in your party

189005
 
Hey I need some help here - I just went against an opponent and none of their pokemon were nicknamed but they clearly still had the effects - I can't understand how though? My sets become illegal if I don't give my pokemon nicknames, but it's a huge benefit not to show off your potential set beforehand. I have nicknames turned on myself, here's the replay. I really can't tell what's going on here.
 
Illusion is pretty cool to use, unfortunately the simulator borks whenever you try to use it. Its sprites don't appear at all, and it gives the 'illusion' that you have 8 Pokémon in your party

View attachment 189005

Hey I need some help here - I just went against an opponent and none of their pokemon were nicknamed but they clearly still had the effects - I can't understand how though? My sets become illegal if I don't give my pokemon nicknames, but it's a huge benefit not to show off your potential set beforehand. I have nicknames turned on myself, here's the replay. I really can't tell what's going on here.

The both of you will need to ask the Admin or whoever is in charge of programming for Showdown. Those are clearly bugs.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
There is a bugfix nearing completion that fixes nicknames being censored for locked users.
 
There is a bugfix nearing completion that fixes nicknames being censored for locked users.
Ah, so my opponent was punished for having bad nicknames in the past and it meant I can't see their nicknames in this meta - I see how that bug happened, but boy is that annoying. Okay, thanks for the response!

Edit: Also, the illusion glitch really sucks my sub/nasty plot Gastly (Zoroark) would be so beastly if it didn't have to worry about being obviously fake. Though I guess they don't know for sure who the fake is, just that it is a fake.
 
Fun meta and actually brought me back to pokemon after a depressing year so yay! Had tons of fun with this meta but its pretty underdeveloped, tons of people use either wack ass sets (think highest bst nfe + random gyara or milotic nickname) or full ubers

Anyways heres a team i used to reach top 5
Xatu (Mantyke) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog

Milotic (Munchlax) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Facade
- Toxic

Quagsire (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Seismic Toss
- Recover

Clefable (Torracat) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Trick
- U-turn

Dragalge (Flabébé) @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Draco Meteor
- Synthesis
- Toxic

Flygon (Klang) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Earthquake
- Roost



Xatu (Mantyke)
Stats: 70 / 40 / 75 / 85 / 145 / 75
Xatu (Mantyke) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog


Pretty underrated mon, beats out most passive mons and rockers and walls defensive gligar which is always nice.

Its pdef and typing is pretty great for a magic bouncer as well. Allows it to overcome pdon and bulky water/fat mons which can give this team trouble


Milotic (Munchlax)
210 / 130 / 99 / 130 / 150 / 6
Milotic (Munchlax) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
Stats: EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Facade
- Toxic


Truly the most broken pokemon on the team. Its my special wall, status absorber and wincon. It has equivalent to full evs 110 base defense thanks to marvel scale + burn and has blissey levels of spdef which gives it multiple opportunities to sweep.

Coil allows u to very quickly overpower teams and become unkillable thanks to its status immunity and high bp stab

Toxic is for unaware mons and shadow ball is if u hate doublade flygon or ghosts that can taunt you


Flygon (Klang)
Stats: 90 / 110 / 125 / 100 / 115 / 80
Flygon (Klang) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Earthquake
- Roost


Another star of the team, with pretty decent bulk and typing it can afford to set up on gligar, munchlax and many mons that dont have SE moves to deal with it.

It can run through offense but struggles alot vs fatter teams, especially bulky waters which is why mantyke is on the team


Quagsire (Gligar)
Stats: 105 / 115 / 145 / 75 / 105 / 105
Quagsire (Gligar) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Seismic Toss / Scald
- Recover


Speaking of scyther breloom and doublade... those evil mons are everywhere and i needed to cover them for munchlax and klang. Im surprised to not see many unawares here considering the INSANE amount of fat set up sweepers that utilize gyarados and dragonite as evos.

I chose gligar over type null cause of fighting resistance and fact that sd magmar gallade destroys me.


(Clefable) Torracat
Stats: 90 / 110 / 75 / 125 / 75 / 115
Clefable (Torracat) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
- Trick / Overheat
- U-turn


Its a magic guard scarfer, nothing too spectacular aside from offering recoil-less flare blitz and easy momentum.
Trick cripple alot of gligars that switch into it mindlessly too


Dragalge (Flabebe)
Stats: 49 / 53 / 69 / 98 / 143 / 56
Dragalge (Spritzee)
Stats: 93 / 77 / 90 / 100 / 128 / 37
Dragalge (Flabébé) @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Draco Meteor
- Synthesis
- Toxic

Dragalge (Spritzee) @ Leftovers
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Draco Meteor
- Protect
- Toxic

Ill admit its more of a novelty mon, i needed a switch in to magmar serperior so i chose this. Adaptability dracos and moonblasts chips everything hard while offering a decent defensive typing

Use spritzee instead, it never clicks synthesis anyways so u might as well use spritzee for much higher bulk



Just want to say wtf is gligar gyarados doing in this tier, it has way too high attack, too dam bulky and too strong vs stall thanks to taunt. Why did this mon survive the suspect test again?
 
I've been having a ton of fun with trick room in this meta. It's a really solid playstyle when you can build your own setters and abusers. I was actually able to reach number 1 on the ladder using this team:

Tsareena (Piloswine) @ Leftovers
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Flygon (Porygon2) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Boomburst
- Defog
- Recover

Chansey (Pumpkaboo-Super) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Soft-Boiled
- Will-O-Wisp
- Heal Bell

Lurantis (Munchlax) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Superpower
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Synthesis

Toxapex (Wailmer) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Recover
- Roar

Excadrill (Scyther) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Brick Break
- U-turn
- Swords Dance

Piloswine and Munchlax are both tremendous in trick room. Tsareena x Piloswine offers 120/130/110 bulk and 180/70/60 offensive stats and Queenly Majesty, allowing it to easily switch in under trick room and wreak havoc with its great stabs without worrying about priority. Due to its immediate power, good coverage, and priority immunity it works well as a cleaner later in the match. Lurantis x Munchlax, on the other hand, excels at boosting while attacking (a great boon for trick room teams, which usually don't have the time to set up). After a couple Superpowers its defenses are good enough that it can often continue on its own after trick room runs out, with 165/95/140 defenses and Synthesis. I use Facade as a lot of things will try stop you with status, and Knock Off is for ghosts.

The team has two TR setters: Flygon x Porygon2 clears hazards and can do decent special damage with Boomburst, while Pumpkaboo keeps the team healthy of status and spreads burns. Toxapex x Wailmer spreads 1 or 2 layers of TSpikes to soften offense or stall, respectively, forms a nice core with Pumpkaboo, and roars away setup sweepers.

Mold Breaker Excadrill x Scyther is almost exclusively to smash through Spritzee and Unaware Type:Null, but it can also offer momentum and break Crawdaunt x Scyther with U-turn. Still working on improving this one, as Brick Break isn't ideal. Previously I used Excadrill x Crabrawler, which offered STAB fighting moves, but it got put out of commission by too many Gligars.

Still looking for improvements, as the team struggles with taunt, stall teams that are good at cleaning my TSpikes, and some powerful offensive threats like Magmar.

Also, Vespiquen as a cross-evo seems tailor made for trick room--I just haven't figured out who to merge it with yet.


EDIT: A few major improvements: Ice Shard for Piloswine is extremely useful for picking off foes that were weakened on the last trick room turn, and can even OHKO some frail attackers (especially Vivillon crevos) from full health. I gave up Synthesis. Also Low Kick or High Jump Kick are good alternatives to Knock Off for getting through levitating Magneton and doing more damage to Type:Null. Also, while Pumpkaboo does enjoy burning things, Foul Play is infinitely better. Finally, the above Porygon is helpless against Mega Gengar--Gligar x Regenerator Slowbro is an another good Trick Room + Defog user. Scyther replacements I enjoyed were Excadrill Ponyta, Gallade Golbat, and Lucario Misdreavus.
 
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What is Chansey Null still doing in this meta? With 245/95/135 bulky, this thing is almost impossible to kill without a strong super effective move, as it has access to natural cure. A few calcs:


Gallade Magmar (185 atk): 252 Atk Life Orb Magmar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Type: Null: 333-393 (47.9 - 56.6%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

GreninjaBuzz (115 spatk): 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Electabuzz Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Type: Null: 361-429 (52 - 61.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Breloom Scyther (200 atk): 252 Atk Technician Scyther Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Type: Null: 204-242 (29.3 - 34.8%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

And BH MMX:
252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Type: Null: 676-801 (97.4 - 115.4%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
 

this boi + Hydreigon
Stats: 85/60/70/185/80/70
Type: same (Psychic)
Ability: Levitate

scarf set maybe?

I didn't play with him but I think it might be cool

sry for bad english :psyduck:
 

this boi + Hydreigon
Stats: 85/60/70/185/80/70
Type: same (Psychic)
Ability: Levitate

scarf set maybe?

I didn't play with him but I think it might be cool

sry for bad english :psyduck:

Gallade (Rhydon) @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Shadow Sneak

Stats: 135/210/150/45/105/70

Just saying theres lots of ways to get high attacking stats.
 

Gallade (Rhydon) @ Choice Band
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Shadow Sneak

Stats: 135/210/150/45/105/70

Just saying theres lots of ways to get high attacking stats.

Just a nitpic as I understand you're onl using rhylade as an example, but Assault Vest > CB for Rhylade. It doesn't need the extra attack and it also prefers to be flexible anyways(e.g. otherwise things like Gligay or floating Magneton can check it even easier if its locked into CC or EQ etc). Plus, AV adds to its already excellent overall bulk (135/150/105).
 
Oh god.

aron.gif

Gyarados (Aron) @ Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Tail
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

New Stats: 125/185/124/85/120/31
New Typing: Steel/Flying

This thing is a complete monster, with an amazing defensive typing and amazing defensive stats, as well as godly Attack. The only thing that really lets it down is its Speed. Iron Tail is the main STAB and I also have EdgeQuake to achieve perfect coverage. I'll test him out soon!
 
Just a Help: Pseudos

Dragonair -> Dragonite: +30 HP, Def, SpA, SpD; +50 Atk; +10 Speed / + Flying-Type / Inner Focus, Multiscale.


Pupitar -> Tyranitar: +30 HP, SpA, SpD; +40 Def; +10 Speed; +50 Atk / Same Type / Sand Stream, Unnerve.


Metang -> Metagross: +20 HP, Speed; +40 Atk, SpA; +30 Def; +10 SpD / Same Type / Clear Body, Light Metal.


Shelgon -> Salamence: +30 HP, SpD; +50 SpA; +40 Atk; +50 Speed. - 20 Def / +Flying-Type / Moxie, Intimidate.


Gabite -> Garchomp: +40 HP, Atk; +30 Def, SpA, SpD, Speed / Same type / Sand Veil, Rough Skin.


Zweilous -> Hydreigon: +20 HP, Atk, Def, SpD; +60 SpA; +40 Speed / Same Type / Levitate.


Sliggoo -> Goodra: +22 HP; +25 Atk; +17 Def; +27 SpA; +37 SpD; +20 Speed / Same Type / Sap Sipper, Hydration, Gooey.

Hakamo-o -> Kommo-o: +20 HP, Speed; +35 Atk, Def, SpD; +25 SpA / Same Type / Bullet-, Soundproof, Overcoat.
 
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Just a Help: Pseudos

Dragonair -> Dragonite: +30 HP, Def, SpA, SpD; +50 Atk; +10 Speed / + Flying-Type / Inner Focus, Multiscale.


Pupitar -> Tyranitar: +30 HP, SpA, SpD; +40 Def; +10 Speed; +50 Atk / Same Type / Sand Stream, Unnerve.


Metang -> Metagross: +20 HP, Speed; +40 Atk, SpA; +30 Def; +10 SpD / Same Type / Clear Body, Light Metal.


Shelgon -> Salamence: +30 HP, SpD; +50 SpA; +40 Atk; +50 Speed. - 20 Def / +Flying-Type / Moxie, Intimidate.


Gabite -> Garchomp: +40 HP, Atk; +30 Def, SpA, SpD, Speed / Same type / Sand Veil, Rough Skin.


Zweilous -> Hydreigon: +20 HP, Atk, Def, SpD; +60 SpA; +40 Speed / Same Type / Levitate.


Sliggoo -> Goodra: +22 HP; +25 Atk; +17 Def; +27 SpA; +37 SpD; +20 Speed / Same Type / Sap Sipper, Hydration, Gooey.

Hakamo-o -> Kommo-o: +20 HP, Speed; +35 Atk, Def, SpD; +25 SpA / Same Type / Bullet-, Soundproof, Overcoat.

We legit already have these. Not only that, we have a spreadsheet for ALL pokemon, not just for the "pseudo" legendaries. But thanks anyways, bud. EDIT: The spreadsheet is located on the very first post of this thread(near the end of it). If anyone was wondering....
 
Pretty fun meta, figured I'd post my team after getting t5.

Kinda basic, ScarfOgre + Pelipper crevo + Accelgor (Frillish) + Araquanid crevo build, taking advantage of the fact that few commonly used mons resist water (with Gligar in particular being weak to it), as well as P-Don being altogether less common in this meta.

With rain up, all of these mons have a fairly easy time breaking for each other and running through teams. At full health, Frillish is even capable of 2HKOing SpDef Chansey (Type: Null) with rocks and rain up, and similar for Araquanid (Tirtouga). Pelipper (Bronzor) is a great rain setter with solid PhysDef and an extremely slow U-Turn, and Ogre serves as a backup to both it and Frillish.

It is possible that while many mons can have great raw stats especially defensively, it may be viable to completely overpower them with high enough raw power, but more likely it is the lack of common Water resists that allows these exponentially boosted mons to wreak havoc. Perhaps the only solid stop I've seen to these monsters so far is Toxapex (Wailmer), but even that can be broken through with Toxic support.

Finally Ultra Necro has also been putting in a lot of work for me as well and should have serious potential in this meta due to its ability to break through bulkier teams with raw power and Photon Geyser's Mold Breaking component. Looking forward to seeing more absolute units (in terms of power) appear as the meta develops.
 
We legit already have these. Not only that, we have a spreadsheet for ALL pokemon, not just for the "pseudo" legendaries. But thanks anyways, bud. EDIT: The spreadsheet is located on the very first post of this thread(near the end of it). If anyone was wondering....
The only part I didn't read from the first post is where is the spreadsheet link, oof. My mistake
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Ok wanted to give some meta impressions after playing on the ladder a bit and experiencing a wide arrange of teams / mons that I felt stood out to me.


Gyarados (Gligar)
Ability: Intimidate / Moxie
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics
- Roost / Taunt

This set is fucking busted and fits on so many different type of teams its not even funny. Gligar x Gyara has such good stats, moves, and typing to enable it to come in and sweep so many teams lacking a solid Unaware mon such as Type: Null, Gligar, or physdef Dusclops. I usually prefer Intimidate over Moxie to offer more setup opportunities and enables Gligar to act as a check to opposing Gligar which is always nice, but Moxie does have its perks in terms of helping to snowball much easier. Tbh this mon heavily warps the metagame with just the set alone enough for me to wanna consider a ban even given the higher threshold for this tier just due to how much it warps the tier around itself. I have seen mons run Ice coverage even when they shoudn't (think Spritzee x Milo or any Type: Null set just to check this thing which really is saying something).


Vivillon (Haunter) @ Leftovers / Ghostium Z / Flynium Z
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Hurricane
- Hypnosis
- Shadow Ball

Imo this is the most optimal set to run on this thing even despite the drop in accuracy from not running Sleep Powder. Haunter really wants both QD and Hurricane to provide it that broken STAB combo while also enabling it to act as one of the most threatening setup sweepers in the tier. You still get a good 78% accuracy sleep move for what its worth. I especially been liking to abuse Haunter thanks to its immunity / resistance to common priority in Mach Punch, Extreme Speed, and Triage Giga Drain which is really nice for a frail setup sweeper of it's nature.

Anyways I don't wanna go to in depth of all my favorite sets and stuff so I will link some fun teams I have been using so that others can try out.


Super Screens


Full Stall


Electabuzz Balance

Have Fun!
 
I've yet to play this metagame yet and idk if this will be helpful at all or has been covered already, but I did a few tests with how evolving into Bellossom would interact with the Evolvee's type as Gloom evolving into Bellossom removes it's Poison typing and to my knowlegde, is the only evolution that does so. These are my findings.

Evolving into Bellossom (Normally Grass/Poison -> Grass/None)
Grass/Poison -> Grass/None
Grass/[Type] -> Grass/None
Grass/None -> Grass/None
Poison/None -> Poison/Grass
Poison/[Type] -> Poison/Grass
[Type]/Poison -> [Type]/Grass
[Type]/None ->[Type]/Grass
[Type]/[Type] -> [Type]/Grass
[Type]/Grass -> [Type]/Grass
+15HP/+15Atk/+25Def/+5Spa/+25Spd/+10Spe |+95Bst

Results were pretty interesting. If your primary type is not Grass then the Secondary type will be replaced with Grass, however, if your Primary type is Grass then the Secondary type is just yeeted out. Though, I'm not sure Bellossom is a good evolution candidate as it forces your ability to be Chlorophyll or, if you really want to, Healer. While in the sun Bellossom does make any Pokémon a fast Grass type that can spam Solar Beam whilst being backed up with Synthesis or Quiver Dance or you have a Grass type that desperately wants it's secondary typing gone, Bellossom is pretty much outclassed in every way I would assume x)

Quick edit; Bellossom does also give access to Sleep Powder and Swords Dance of all things, but I don't think that changes much.
 

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