All Gens Cores Through the Ages

Bedschibaer

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Cores Through the Ages
Parts of the OP are stolen from the OU Good Cores (V2) thread, art stolen from here

In Pokemon, the word "core" refers a group of 2 or More Pokemon which work well together. Whether this be through synergy, coverage, or removing each other's counters, there are any cores that have been discovered and proven to work well, and many cores yet to be discovered. Having a solid core is the starting point of building a solid team.

The purpose of this thread is to take a look at cores that exist over more than one generation and discuss how they work in every single generation, how they change, how effective they are and what teams utilize them. Similar to the Pokemon through the ages thread, but without just focusing on single pokemon, but on the synergy 2 or more pokemon have with each other, since that is the cornerstone of every competitive team.

Skarmbliss
Gen 2

I am going to start with the probably most well known core in the history of pokemon, Skarmory + Blissey. Skarmory and Blissey form a defensive core that couldn't be any simpler - Blissey is the arguably best special wall in GSC OU, Skarmory is the arguably best physical wall in the tier. Both pokemon can take several support roles on a team (Skarmory can Phaze, Curse, Toxic and even use Thief, Blissey provides Heal Bell and Toxic support). Due to the rather lackluster damage output of both Pokemon they have to resort to residual damage to take down foes - a spiker is usually seen on Skarmbliss teams, as well as a spinner or a spinblocker, since at least some form of hazard control is needed to wear down foes. Despite its big popularity in the earlier days of competitive GSC the core has fallen down rapidly in usage because Blissey is very often considered deadweight on many teams as the omnipresent snorlax hugely capitalizes off it and because the general playstyle in GSC shifted more towards offense. Mixed attackers, Exploders and offensive Spikes control are common now and most offensive teams are able to break through the core, even without anti-skarmbliss mons like Charizard.
Alternatives: Skarmory + Raikou is a quite similar core and forms the defensive backbone of many teams. Raikou has no special weaknesses, access to Reflect and Roar and unlike Blissey it has an actually impressive offensive presence, at the loss of Heal Bell in the core. Miltank works very well with that core though, since it provides a Mixlax check besides Heal Bell.

Gen 3

Nothing really changed in the basic idea of the core in gen 3, it just got a couple of new tools. Most important is that Skarmory got Spikes and that there are 3 layers of Spikes now, allowing it to rack up residual damage alot faster. A little less relevant, but still important addition to Skarmory's movepool is Taunt, allowing it to prevent Spikers to set up on it. Blissey got new toys to play with in Wish for more team support and Calm Mind, which actually makes it an offensive threat to be reckoned with. A new threat that can dismantle the core quite easily when played right are the trappers Magneton and Dugtrio. Despite new threats the Skarmbliss core still found its way on many stall teams.

Gen 4

Yet again, the concept of the core does not change at all, Skarm takes the physical hits, Blissey takes the special ones. There are quite a few new things to support this core, first of all there are more and new entry hazards. Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes are new effective ways to take down mons with residual damage. Skarmory gets an instant recovery move now too. The problem with the trappers gets manageable with the introduction of Shed Shell. On the other hand there are also new wallbreakers and especially the physical/special split introduced in Gen 4 which can give the dynamic duo a hard time.

Gen 5

With the introduction of Eviolite in BW Blissey's little sister Chansey became relevant again, as it is the better wall now with the only real downside being the loss of Leftovers. Because of team preview trappers became alot easier to handle and because of permarain being almost everywhere Skarmory loses a big special weakness. The change of Sturdy mechanics was a slight buff for Skarmory, despite that not alot changed. But after 4 generations the metal bird and the pink blob are still commonly seen on stall teams, something that doesn't really change in XY either. Despite the simplicity of the idea in the core it is yet one of the most effective defensive cores there is.

This was a rather short recap of skarmbliss over the generations, feel free to add or correct things or go ahead and post your own cores. It doesn't neccessarily have to be longliving cores like this one.
 
ttar gengar forre in ADV is the first one that comes to mind, forre is the center of the core, sets up spikes and spins. It should be running a spDef hp bug set as the point is that it pairs well with gengar as a spiker because it can threaten starmie, which gengar can't really block rapid spin against effectively. This means starmie can't switch directly in to get rid of spikes as it would with something like skarm, so you get to keep spikes down until starmie has an opportunity to come in and spin. Problem is forretress can't spin to save its life, it is hard walled by gengar. therefore special tyranitar with pursuit is used to get rid of gengar. With support from these two pokes, when played effectively, forretress has a pretty easy time controlling spikes on both sides of the field.
 
there are ways around that as well, you could forgo explosion on forre for eq, or run dugtrio alongside and try and predict mag. Either way, whenever you use forre or skarm you run the risk of getting magged.
 

dekzeh

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Flying/Levitating Dragon + Steel cores have been a thing since ADV, the defensive and offensive synergy is pretty solid.

ADV: Salamence + Metaross/Jirachi
DPP: Salamence (and later on Dragonite cause ban, Flygon doesn't have as much synergy) + Metagross/Jirachi/Heatran
BW: Lati@s + Jirachi/Heatran
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
there are ways around that as well, you could forgo explosion on forre for eq, or run dugtrio alongside and try and predict mag. Either way, whenever you use forre or skarm you run the risk of getting magged.
boomless (eq + hp bug) forretress is horribly lackluster imo, shit like mence, aero, dd gyara, gengar, whatever comes in for free, and most of those mon you do not wanna let come in for free
 
boomless (eq + hp bug) forretress is horribly lackluster imo, shit like mence, aero, dd gyara, gengar, whatever comes in for free, and most of those mon you do not wanna let come in for free
Yeah that's definitely true, I run duggy alongside that core personally, it synergizes well with it in more ways than just the mag thing, takes out pursuit users for gengar, takes out heracross which is nice if you're running forre over skarm, takes out offensive celebi which destroys the core, and a number of other things that give the core trouble.
 

Bedschibaer

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Since Gengar came up let's just take a quick look at this core which is not as set in stone

Gengar + Spiker
Gen 2

This core doesn't work the same way in GSC as it does in later generations. Cloyster is the arguably best spiker in GSC, Gengar is the ghost that actually has a good offensive movepool. Gengars "main" purpose on most offensive GSC teams he finds his way onto isn't to spinblock, but it is to take down foes with its unpredictability and great movepool. Gengar as an exploder threatens physical walls like Skarm since it is a strong special attacker and it threatens special walls with Explosion. Despite its pitiful attack stat it is often able to take down weakened special walls with ease, Gengar exploding on Raikou is a common trade as that only needs Raikou slightly weakened. Not only Cloyster directly benefits from that. Cloyster can often target Raikou, Zapdos, Starmie, etc, with explosion. Something that (not only) Gengar benefits from. The fact that both can blow up on things that counter the other and also opens for lategame sweeps from Nidoking, Vap, Machamp or similar is good offensive synergy. The fact that Gengar can spinblock is rather a nice convenience here. Forretress is the more defensive spiker and is usually only seen on heavily spikes depenent teams, because of that it is usually rather paired with Misdreavus instead of Gengar, since that is the more reliable spinblocker.

Gen 3

Bulky Gengar finds its way onto alot TSS teams in Adv, as already mentioned Forretress is commonly used here as its HP Bug punishes Starmie switchins, making its life harder to spin on Gengar. Offensive variants of Gengar are also commonly seen, even though they are more likely to just be a quick spinblock on teams that do not neccessarily need to win the spikes war to win the game. Dusclops is an option over Gengar since it is bulkier and has better longlivity.

Gen 4

With the introduction of new entry hazards and a strongly hazard focused metagame Gengars role as an offensive spinblocker is still there, even though a new ghost - Rotom in its various formes - takes its place as the most used or arguably best spinblocker. Also the introduction of more defensive ghost types like Spiritomb takes away spotlight from him. As an offensive spinblocker Gengar often finds his way onto hyper offensive teams with suicide hazard leads.

Gen 5

The unbanning of Deoxys-D and the temporarily popular Custap leads Skarmory and Forretress gave Gengar an important spot in hyper offense teams in Generation 5. Gengar is the basically only offensive spinblocker in OU and after Excadrill was banned Starmie was the only offensive spinner in OU, Spinners like Forretress, Tentacruel or Donphan have a hard time spinning on a Gengar, allowing it to easily control entry hazard advantage for offensive teams.
 

Bedschibaer

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Forgive me my double post but i am bored today so i will just post another one and don't know how many more to come, maybe it gets the thread going a bit

Machamp + Paralysis
Gen 4

Two Pokemon that abuse paralyzed opponents so well, that T-Wave spam has almost become a team archetype in DPP. The idea is pretty simple - Machamp is rather slow but hits extremely hard, Dynamic Punch always hitting and always confusing makes taking down paralyzed foes quite easy, as you are likely to get free turns with full paras or confusions. Jirachi does both, spreading paralysis and abusing paralyzed foes with paraflinch. This core also pairs well with Celebi as it can come in on bulky ground types both mons struggle to take down easily and it also has access to Thunder Wave, further supporting the core.

Gen 2

I built a couple of paralysis based teams for GSC lately and came to the conclusion that Machamp is one of the things that likes paralyzed foes the most (next to Marowak of course). The team is basically a rather standard offensive GSC team with a couple of paralysis inducing moves to further support Machamp - Snorlax' Body Slam, your electric's Thunder(-bolt, sometimes even -wave) and Exeggutor's Stun Spore. I often run Stun Spore instead of Sleep Powder on Eggy when i have a sleep inducing move somewhere else (LK on lax for example) or even run with double powder. Tyranitar isn't that big of a problem against teams that pack Machamp sice it will get statused if it comes in on Eggy most of the time anyways and you have your Machamp which comes in rather safely on Ttars. Things that pair well with this "team" are Cloyster to lure Starmies and offensive normal resists like Steelix (boom threat, curse roar) or Ttar (potential pursuit support which Machamp certainly likes, possibility of Curse Roar). I'd personally run ST Machamp with Ttar sice it checks Lax better and benefits alot more from the Pursuit support, and Curse + 3 Attacks Machamp with Steelix.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
Yeah that's definitely true, I run duggy alongside that core personally, it synergizes well with it in more ways than just the mag thing, takes out pursuit users for gengar, takes out heracross which is nice if you're running forre over skarm, takes out offensive celebi which destroys the core, and a number of other things that give the core trouble.
yea duggy is great with that core. ive also ran resttalk zapdos w/ whirlwind/toxic to some great success there too.
 
Skarmbliss
Gen 2

Gen 3

Nothing really changed in the basic idea of the core in gen 3, it just got a couple of new tools.
Actually, there was a rather big change. Specifically, EVs and natures. EVs/Natures meant that mixed attacking now actually required some sacrifice, as opposed to "oh hey my Lax doesn't like Skarm, let's splash Fire Blast on it"; you had to give up the easy dump stat for Natures and/or actually put some EVs into it.

Similarly, there was a big change in gen IV. SkarmBliss lost one of its biggest draws, the lack of weaknesses on the side each is supposed to wall. In gen IV you could suddenly use Flare Blitz and hit Skarm super-effectively on the physical side, or use Focus Blast and hit Blissey super-effectively on the special side.


Where did the Smogon-hosted sprites go? I just went to grab them for my own post, but they're gone!
 
Gen 4

With the introduction of new entry hazards and a strongly hazard focused metagame Gengars role as an offensive spinblocker is still there, even though a new ghost - Rotom in its various formes - takes its place as the most used or arguably best spinblocker. Also the introduction of more defensive ghost types like Spiritomb takes away spotlight from him. As an offensive spinblocker Gengar often finds his way onto hyper offensive teams with suicide hazard leads.

Gen 5

The unbanning of Deoxys-D and the temporarily popular Custap leads Skarmory and Forretress gave Gengar an important spot in hyper offense teams in Generation 5. Gengar is the basically only offensive spinblocker in OU and after Excadrill was banned Starmie was the only offensive spinner in OU, Spinners like Forretress, Tentacruel or Donphan have a hard time spinning on a Gengar, allowing it to easily control entry hazard advantage for offensive teams.
Since I'm awake may as well post:

Yeah Rotom and Jellicent usurped the 'spinblocker' crown from Gengar in Gens 4-5: dont get me wrong Gengar is still a good Spinblocker but its frailty and lack of recovery were started to catch up with it. A better name for the core would be Spinblocker+Hazard Setter, as its a far more catch all core for all types of teams: HO to Stall. Rotom was bulkier and could perform other roles such as status absorbing with ResTalk or Revenge Killing with Choice Scarf, while Jellicent was really specially bulky, had recovery with Recover, and a nice Water type STAB in the Rain dominated era of BW2....dont get me started on Specs Water Spout under Rain....has a chance to 2HKO Blissey under Rain with SR up.....
 
The infamous GYARAVIRE!


Due to Gyarados' weakness to stealth rocks it loves to switch in, bait an electric attack with it's quad weakness and then switch out.

Who better to absorb the attack than the destructive monster Electivire; Nintendo DS' would disconnect at the sight the sight of him. Not only is he immune to electric attacks he also gets a 1.5x speed boost allowing him to outspeed any non choice scarfed pokemon!

Electivire's 123 base attack lets him get around those special walls like Snorlax, Blissey and Tyranitar who normally stop electrics dead in their tracks. Add in his plethora of coverage options and it's a wonder how anything managers to wall it.

Don't use a life orb, or you'll never get to make full use of it's whopping 2 resistances! Resisting the extremely popular Flying and Steel type attacks. Instead use an expert belt, bluffing a choice banded set! It fools everyone, every single time!

Don't forget about the offensive synergy either! Electivire lures out bulky ground types like Hippowdon, weakening them so that Gyarados can sweep them without even needing a Dragon Dance boost.

It's one of the most popular cores to ever grace generation 4 and it's not hard to understand why.
 

Jorgen

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Skarm has been involved in a couple cores throughout its lifetime - and no, I'm not talking about stupid SkarmBliss.

Skarmory + Rock in GSC is how you cover both FB and EQ Curselax (and Drumlax, to be honest). It is a full stop to all Lax except MixLax. The Rock is typically Tyranitar, but Rhydon also sees use. Ttar does a better job of covering Gengar and Egg, though, making it more versatile on defense (and this is a defensive core). The Rock is typically a complementary Phazer to Skarm as well, thereby allowing the player to more effectively deal with Jolteon and Thunder Misdreavus.

Skarm can also be paired with a Ghost, particularly Misdreavus, although Missy counter-traps other Misdreavus instead of safely Phazing them, not to mention that it's soooo Pursuit-weak.


Skarmory + Claydol in RSE is a popular defensive core that not only gives you full control of Spikes (can set 'em and spin 'em), but also resists every single Physical attack in the game.

I'm sure that there's other non-Skarm cores in DPP and BW but I wouldn't know too much about those. Skarm is just such a core-able mon I figure it has to have something in those gens.
 

Jirachee

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DPP OU:

Starmie + Tyranitar + Skarmory + Rotom-A

Kind of a large core, but a very simple and effective one. This core's main goal is to control every aspect of the Hazards game, which is a very effective way to win DPP OU battles. This core is extremely simple because it combines the best of every role (strangely enough, they work well together): Starmie is the best Spinner, Skarmory is the best Spiker, Rotom-A is the best Spinblocker, and Tyranitar is the best Pursuiter, which is important because a lot of hazard controlling 'mons happen to be Dark weak in DPP and removing them gives you a huge advantage.

There are many good alternatives to the standard members of this core though. Forretress can be used over Skarmory for Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, freeing Starmie's spot for an alternate Water type. Tyranitar is most likely going to be the Scarfer, but it can run another set too. Rotom can be changed for Gengar to take a more offensive approach on the thing, and it works especially well with Toxic Spikes.

As for things that work well with that core, a Stealth Rock user is pretty mandatory. Ground types in particular work well on those teams because they add a Rock resist as well as a check to Electric types which Skarmory tends to let in for free. A Toxic Spikes user like Roserade works well on those teams too to add extra hazards. A sweeper that can take advantage of hazards control is also a great addition to help in closer games.

cool thread :toast:
 
egg + steelix + snorlax - 3 offensive pokemon that's surprisingly hard to break defensively. notable defensive merits of egg + steelix: normal resist, phazer, electric resist/immunity, eq/rs "resist". potential coverages based on moveset: leech seed, reflect, last ditch sleep, last poke curselax counter, last poke vap counter. mainly, this is one of the best ways to get around electrics without running raikou/blissey. a solo snorlax is never enough for zap/kou, however egg + steelix offers synergistic HP coverage, combined with snorlax should mitigate damage on switches. and all of that doesn't even begin to cover the OFFENSIVE merits. potentially three explosions, two of them backed by curse.

HP ghost/toxic forretress + misdreavus - secure spikes adv.

joltwak?

although i guess i'm missing the definition of core if joltwak is considered a core. core to me means a definitive backbone of a team in and of itself. it's the foundation on which other pokemon may be added either to compliment, or to take the team into a new direction altogether. it's the part of the team that anchors it down, filling out a multitude of roles to make the rest of the roster more flexible.

if you're simply talking about synergistic pokemon then there's way too many to list. smeargle + snorlax? zapdos + charizard? cloyster + machamp?
 
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Inspirited

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Tyranitar is offensive a lot of the time and will hardly ever carry rocks in DPP, especially when used with this core. Skarmory should be using Spikes > Stealth Rock just to put on the most pressure when used with Rotom and Tyranitar.
 
Gen 5

With the introduction of Eviolite in BW Blissey's little sister Chansey became relevant again, as it is the better wall now with the only real downside being the loss of Leftovers. Because of team preview trappers became alot easier to handle and because of permarain being almost everywhere Skarmory loses a big special weakness. The change of Sturdy mechanics was a slight buff for Skarmory, despite that not alot changed. But after 4 generations the metal bird and the pink blob are still commonly seen on stall teams, something that doesn't really change in XY either. Despite the simplicity of the idea in the core it is yet one of the most effective defensive cores there is.
You might mention the change in Wish mechanics making Chansey/Blissey's Wish more powerful.

EDIT: In the GSC section, I think you should note that "the metagame shifting toward offense" is a strike against Skarmory more than against Blissey. Blissey's best use is to make extremely offensive Pokemon like DrumLax and Marowak more reliable by Belling off their Rests and setting Light Screen; as a wall per se it's basically useless since it loses or ties almost every matchup - even those against special attackers - thanks to its inability to kill anything and the low PP of Heal Bell and Softboiled. Miltank's honestly the stallier of the two Bellers; if you're using Miltank, you're using it for its walliness as well as Heal Bell, whereas if you're using Blissey you're using it because you think you can make holes while under Light Screen or abuse the more frequent Heal Bells to turbodrum or some such offensive plan. IDK that's just how I see it and I suck so take this with a grain of salt.

EDIT2:

GSC Cloy + Gengar
Cloy + Gengar isn't very effective. What's spinning against Cloy? Starmie. What can't Gengar spinblock? Starmie. Gengar's spinblocking is limited to opposing Spin Cloy and (non-HP-Ghost) Forry. Cloy doesn't care much about those; Forry does. So basically you're looking at Cloy + Missy or Forry + Gengar or Forry + Missy. Cloy + Gengar isn't much better at keeping Spikes than Cloy alone. That's not to say you can't use both on a team - obviously, you can - but it's not a huge synergy to use them together.
 
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