Clean Slate

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Random thoughts on the current metagame:

Cacturne: Very sad boy after the Mega Swampert rework, as all 3 of its abilities are sand-based yet we have no sand setter. Only ways to fix this that I see are a full reslate or the addition of a Sand Stream user, wether that's through a new addition or giving an existing pokemon access to it. Buff it somehow

Electric Terrain: My tests with these 2 potent lads have given me some pretty favorable, incredibly consistent results. Xurkitree has good staying power and very nice offensive presence at the cost of predictability (Electric+Grass is all it runs 99% of the time most likely and HP Ice isn't doing jack off of 97 SpA) and can pretty safely get Genesect onto the field, where it can proceed to dish out loads of damage against virtually anything not named Tapu Bulu or, funnily enough, Xurkitree. While it's definitely a powerful offensive core and will most likely eclipse Gravity, Trick Room, Webs, and Rain (lol) as the dumb offense strategy of choice I don't think it can be considered overpowered at the moment as long as Bulu usage is high and opposing offensive strategies such as Webs can really mess with the core. Leave it be

Forretress: This thing would be way less annoying if it didn't have braindead dumb Lunge which it can just brainlessly spam against any physical pokemon that doesn't carry strong Fire coverage but would otherwise break it (Mega Swampert mainly). So basically anything that isn't Genesect or Tapu Bulu just can't break it physically and just loses momentum to it. Can we please remove Lunge? It would still undoubtedly be a viable defensive pivot. Fuck Lunge


Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Earthquake

Sharpedo's supposed "hard counter" in Lanturn has been completely invalidated after I noticed that this thing gets Earthquake and has a perfectly usable 110 base attack to bop it with. Even with max HP Lanturn is clean 2HKO'd by Earthquake so Mega Shark now has much more breathing room when it comes to late game cleaning and generally threatening most things it outspeeds outside of Dragons.

And with that I'm going to finally try to create a framework VR that we can at least work off of. See you guys around
 
broke.png

what am i doing with my life
I agree that Cacturne needs a rework or a sand setter. Megapert wouldn't have been the most reliable Setter anyway because of its inability to hold Smooth Stone. Right now it's basically useless unless you're running something like Sandstorm Mew.

I also think that Forretress is a bit too good right now. It has insane bulk with an AV, and I've even seen some non-AV sets with Toxic Spikes that can punish Bulu or even Sharpedo-Mega (which can't really switch in due to Volt Switch.) Removing Lunge would make it have some more reliable checks.

I'll probably make another post soon about more thoughts on the meta. I'm not submitting for CCAT because I agree that Nihilego would be a great addition.
 
Last edited:

Samtendo09

Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
View attachment 144878
what am i doing with my life
I agree that Cacturne needs a rework or a sand setter. Megapert wouldn't have been the most reliable Setter anyway because of its inability to hold Smooth Stone. Right now it's basically useless unless you're running something like Sandstorm Mew.

I also think that Forretress is a bit too good right now. It has insane bulk with an AV, and I've even seen some non-AV sets with Toxic Spikes that can punish Bulu or even Sharpedo-Mega (which can't really switch in due to Volt Switch.) Removing Lunge would make it have some more reliable checks.

I'll probably make another post soon about more thoughts on the meta. I'm not submitting for CCAT because I agree that Nihilego would be a great addition.
We either change Cacturne into someone who benefit from the rain, or give it better Abilities while still making sense to its cactus-like nature.

Anyways, it seems like Nihilego is still S-ranked (or is now), and I hope it will not be proven too borked. Even supposed counters can be easily countered back, like Grass Knot against Mega Swampert. Keep this in note too.
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Clean Slate Stage 2: History Books

sorry I couldn't resist doing one of these NP thread headers
Cacturne is an outdated Pokemon, a footnote in the history of Clean Slate created at a time when Mega Swampert had Sand Stream and when Mew was theorized to still be the most dominant defensive Pokemon in the metagame. While in theory it has several decent tools at its disposal (70 BP STAB priority, Burn immunity, good mixed offenses) it suffers from all 3 of its abilities being related to a non-existent weather and having atrocious bulk and speed, forcing it to rely on its priority often and just not really achieving a whole lot that another, more well-suited alternative could achieve in that role.

So what are we going to do about it? 2 things, actually:
Cacturne Change:
Cacturne will be open to submissions of stat, movepool, and ability changes. However, its core concept of being a Grass/Fighting sand abuser must be preserved.
Introduce a Sand-Setter: Oh boy, we're raising the total Pokemon count to a nice round 40 (not including megas)! Make a sand-setter. The only rule here is that it has to have Sand Stream as it's dominant ability.


Meta trends to account for: From what can be gleaned from the handful of matches that have taken place (mind you I intend to host of Clean Slate tourney soon in order to get a better grasp of the metagame) here are current meta trends to take into account when subbing:
Electrics like running Grass coverage over Ice: None of our ground-types can stomach Grass-type coverage and Dragon-types just end up eating a Volt Switch, so the need to run Hidden Power Ice is completely alleviated. Even Vikavolt, who gets Technician, would rather have Hidden Power Grass in order to nail Swampert rather than use Ice to hit, say, Druddigon harder than Ancient Power could. Therefore, if subbing a Ground-type, take into account that we don't have Boltbeam, we have Boltball.
Tapu Bulu is the best physical Grass-type: Outside of Meganium and sometimes Toucannon, nothing likes eating a boosted hit from Tapu Bulu. Even Druddigon and Flygon, our other 2 bulky dragons, crumple to a +2 Terrain Boosted Bloom Doom. Nothing else resists Grass/Fire, so with just its STABs alone Tapu Bulu can very easily wallbreak. Not to mention Bulu's nice natural bulk and interesting defensive typing. Therefore, when reworking Cacturne, really think about what it can bring to a team that Bulu can't.
Toucannon exists and is really good: Just saying, if your STAB combo is resisted by one of the best walls in the game, you should probably have a way around it in mind. It doesn't have to be able to beat it obviously, but it is a massive downside to Cacturne that should be kept in mind.

A few other unrelated announcements:

We have our first Community Create-A-Team finished! It will be linked in the "Sample Teams" section of the first page.

Forretress loses lunge because fuck lunge


Ok that's all I have to say, submissions will end next Saturday. Have fun! Don't break anything!
 

Gravity Monkey

Que des barz comme si jtais au hebs
is a Top Artist
Somewhat of a resub


Pokemon: Hippopotas (Eviolite)
Roles: Sandstorm Setter, Defensive Pivot, Set-Up Check
Typing:

Abilities: Thick Fat / Sturdy / Sand Stream
Stats: 110 / 70 / 65 / 55 / 60 / 60 (BST: 420)
Movepool Additions: Shadow Sneak, Spectral Thief, Will-O-Wisp, Relic Retreat*
Movepool Removlas: Yawn
Custome Elements: *Relic Retreat — Ground type Parting Shot clone that, instead of lowering offenses, has the effect of Magic Coat.
Justifictaion: A reason to use cacturne. A pretty solid pokemon with great bulk thanks to eviolite and sandstorm, he can achieve some things that were pretty difficult before, mainly safely switching and stopping set ups from going rampent.
 

Pokemon: Typhlosion
Roles: Sandstorm Setter, Offensive Pivot, Choice Specs,
Typing:

Abilities: Blaze | Sand Stream (HA)
Stats: 80 / 85 / 70 / 110 / 85 / 100 | BST: 530
Movepool Additions: *Tectonic Surge, Earth Power, U-turn, Slack Off, Stealth Rock, Celebrate
Movepool Removals:
Custom Elements:
Tectonic Surge - Ground-type Doom Desire clone
Justifictaion: It has a powerful offensive typing that pressures Lanturn and Forretress while leaving Levitate Nihilego as a solid answer. Its two weaknesses are both resisted by Cacturne, which is a big plus. It has many useful tools for an offensive pivot such as U-turn and Stealth Rock. Tectonic Surge matches well with Smooth Rock because it doesn't care about an item ( and it pairs very well with Gravity as you can set Gravity at any time before the move hits ). Ironically checked by Meganium.


New Stats: 70 / 120 / 82 / 118 / 70 / 65 | BST: 525 ( +25 Def )
Justifictaion: Just patching up an achilles heal on a pokemon that didn't need it. Cacturne can actually switch in on resisted hits now.
 
Last edited:

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

Name of the Pokemon: Cacturne
Stat Distribution: 70/135/50/75/100/75 (500 BST)
New Movepool Additions: Ice Punch, Swords Dance
New Movepool Removals: Destiny Bond
Justification: Cacturne can now distinguish itself from Tapu Bulu by being able to hit Dragon types better. Ice Punch allows it to have a better matchup versus Toucannon. A small speed boost gives it an edge over Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, and Meganium outside of Sand, but is still outsped by mons like Mew, Sharpedo(-Mega), and Gardevoir, who can OHKO it easily.



Name of the Pokemon: Aerodactyl (resub)
Role: Special Attacker, Suicide Lead, Sand Setter, Special Tank, Stealth Rock, Hazard Control
Type:

Abilities: Rock Head/Sand Stream
Stat Distribution: 70/60/45/114/95/121 (515 BST)
Movepool Additions: Hurricane, Power Gem, U-Turn, Crystal Blast
Movepool Removals: Fire Blast
Custom Elements: Crystal Blast: Rock-type Solar Beam clone, no charge in sand
Justification: Aerodactyl is a lead and sand setter, having good attacking stats, access to support moves such as Whirlwind, Taunt, Stealth Rock, and Defog, and providing sand for Cacturne to sweep. While it also has great special longevity combined with Roost, its physical bulk is terrible, allowing it to be OHKO'd by Pangoro's Knock Off, Metagross's Bullet Punch, and Raichu's Ice Shard (after Stealth Rock).

Aerodactyl @ Smooth Rock / Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe or 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Defog
- Taunt / Roost
- Earth Power / U-Turn / Flamethrower
- Crystal Blast
 
Last edited:

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor

Name of Pokemon: Kommo-O
Role: Set-Up Sweeper, Offensive Pivot, Hazards, Sandstorm Setter, Choice Scarf
Type:

Abilities:
Battle Armor | Sand Stream (HA)
Stat Distribution: 75 / 106 / 80 / 67 / 110 / 102 (540 BST)
Movepool Additions: U-Turn
Movepool Removals: Rock Slide, Rock Tomb, Dragon Dance
Justification: Kommo-O serves 3 important purposes: The obvious one is Sand Stream, which this is a fine setter of. The second one is Kommo-O is a great way to make Grass coverage not such a no-brainer over Ice coverage on Electrics, being a Dragon-type that actually blocks Volt Switch. The third one is that Kommo-O has a neat 102 speed tier, which both outspeeds Nihilego (making it a decent choice for Gravity teams) yet underspeeds Unown, which revenge kills, helping to populate the 100+ speed tier that is so sparse. As for what it actually does in battles, it's a fine Stealth Rock setting offensive pivot or a threatening Swords Dance sweeper. It can also function as a fine Scarfer, I guess.



I support Scoop's Cacturne buff
 

Tuthur

formerly 0-7 in FCL
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor

Name of the Pokemon: Dugtrio
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, Sand Setter
Type:

Abilities:
Sand Force / Sand Veil | Sand Stream
Stat Distribution: 70/85/70/60/70/130 | 485
Movepool Additions: Thousand Arrows, Thousand Waves, Taunt
Movepool Removals: Hone Claws
Custom Elements: none
Justification: Dugtrio forms a strong core with Cacturne setting up the sandstorm. While it can't eat Energy Ball, it let's Electric-type reflect before clicking Volt-Switch because it outspeeds all of them and can OHKO them thanks to Thousand Arrows. It is also a good stallbreaker, something we don't really have. It also punishes all the team using Nihilego as their only Ground-immunity.
+: really fast, volt-switch immunity, decent bulk, supports Cacturne
-: lacks raw power, lacks a secondary STAB, can’t set up
Offensive Stealth Rock (Dugtrio) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch / Taunt
- Stealth Rock

ToxTec (Dugtrio) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Toxic
- Thousand Arrows
- Protect
- Substitute / Thousand Waves / Taunt

Choice Band (Dugtrio) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit / Thousand Waves

New Stats: 75 / 120 / 80 / 120 / 80 / 65 | BST: 540 (+5 HP, +23 Def, +2 SpA, +10 SpD)
Movepool addition: Sand Blade, Rock-type clone of Solar Blade that works under Sandstorm. Desert Coat also now provides a Water-immunity.
Justification: A small buff to Cacturne's bulk allowing to better takes hits and have a free switch-in on Swampert. Sand Blade allows Cacturne to get through Toucannon and Flaaffy if sandstorm is up.
 
Last edited:
:swole:Buff Porygon-Z too:swole:


Name of the Pokemon: Bouffalant
Role(s): Wallbreaker, Stallbreaker, Sand Setter
Type:

Abilities:
Reckless / Sap Sipper / Sand Stream (HA)
Stat Distribution: 93 / 95 / 93 / 45 / 93 / 81 (BST: 500)
Movepool Additions: Head Smash, Sandstorm
Movepool Removals: Swords Dance
Custom Elements: None
Justification: Bouffalant is definitely a very versatile Pokemon that can support Cacturne with Sand Stream, but it can also work on non-Sand teams either as a powerful wallbreaker with Reckless Head Smash or a nice check to Tapu Bulu with Sap Sipper.
+: 3 useful abilities, good bulk (especially SpD under Sandstorm), 2 possible immunities, strong, checks Tapu Bulu, supports Cacturne
-: 4x weak to fighting, can be trapped by Trapinch, wallbreaker sets have poor longevity because of recoil
Bouffalant @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Taunt

Bouffalant @ Choice Band
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Head Smash
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

Bouffalant @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Head Charge
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Taunt



New Stats: 75 / 120 / 75 / 120 / 75 / 75 (BST: 540)
Movepool addition: Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Ancient Power
Justification: Better stats and some Rock coverage should do the trick. Cacturne and Bouffalant nicely support each other; Bouffalant breaks down walls and weakens them so Cacturne can clean up utilizing the Sandstorm Bouffalant provides.
 

Pokemon: Sandslash
Roles: Sand Setter, Wallbreaker, Hazard Control
Typing: Ground/Grass
Abilities: Sand Stream / Sand Veil / Guts
Stats: 119/89/65/55/55/104 (BST: 487)
Movepool Additions: Power Whip, Leaf Blade, Spiky Shield, U-Turn, Flame Wheel
Movepool Removals: Swords Dance, Stealth Rock
Custom Elements: N/A
Justification: Sandslash provides the meta with a Sand Setter and a Ground type that is not weak to Grass. It specializes in breaking down pokemon that Cacturne has trouble dealing with, such as Forretress, Metagross, and Musharna, in order to prepare for a Cacturne Sweep. Outside of being a Sand Setter, it also has Guts. Guts can be used with a Flame Orb to be a fast and powerful attacker.


New Stats: 70/120/77/108/75/65 (+20 Def, -10 SpA, 5 SpA) BST: 515
Movepool Additions: Leaf Storm, Mach Punch
Justification: This change patches up Cacturne's weakest facet, it's horrible defense. While still not great, it at least has better defense now. While Cacturne has a better Attack Stat, it's Special Attacks have higher base power, so both Special and Physical sets can be used. It now also has priority for both Physical and Special Sets.
 

Pokemon: Probopass
Roles: Sand Setter, Hazard Control, Physical Wall, Balanced Wall
Typing: Rock / Steel
Abilities: Levitate / Sturdy | HA: Sand Stream
Stats: 85 / 65 / 110 / 95 / 95 / 35 (BST: 485)
Movepool Additions: Gyro Ball, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Solar Beam, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam
Movepool Removals: none
Custom Elements: none
Justification: It resists or takes neutral damage (Fire-type only) from all of Cacturne's weaknesses and it is also defensive rather than offensive, to pair with Catucturne's low defense stats. Combining the coverage it already had with what I added it can defend its offensive friend from all its counters, stalling them out or taking their hits, setting hazards against Flying-types and hitting even Psychic-types. Overall a good wall.
 
Last edited:
1541957286472.png

Pokemon: Claydol
Roles: Sand Setter, Hazard Control, Wall
Typing: Ground / Psychic
Abilities: Levitate / Mold Breaker | HA: Sand Stream
Stats: 85 / 65 / 105 / 95 / 130 / 55 (BST: 535)
Movepool Additions: Recover, Taunt, Parting Shot, Heal Bell
Movepool Removals: None
Custom Elements: None
Justification: Claydol is horrible pokemon in standard play. However, with a few more tools and a useful ability, Claydol now has a niche as a relatively passive wall whose role in the metagame consists of taking hits, setting up sand, and switching out. Claydol also has stealth rocks and rapid spin to remove the hazards of the opponent. In addition to a glaring weakness to toxic, It has relatively good defenses, but poor offenses.
 
Last edited:

Name of the Pokemon: Vibrava [Eviolite]
Role(s): Sand Setter, Hazard Setter, Defogger, Physical Wall, Stallbreaker/Disruptor
Type: Ground/Flying
Abilities: Sand Stream / Infiltrator
Stat Distribution: 70/55/85/90/60/80 [BST: 440]
Movepool Additions: Air Slash, Work Up, Blow Away
Movepool Removals: n/a
Custom Elements:
Blow Away - 60 BP Special Flying-type move that nullifies abilities like Core Enforcer*
Justification: What a weird evolutionary line, with Trapinch and Flygon already implemented and being way different. Anyway, Vibrava's typing and stats allow it to check Tapu Bulu, Meganium, Metagross, Swalot, physical Poipole, and opposing Cacturne for Cacturne, making a sweeping a bit easier. Vibrava can do a lot of things, like setting up Spikes, Defogging, U-Turning to bring in Cacturne, and act as a Stallbreaker. Also, since Toucannon is a thing, you can hit it with Blow Away and all of a sudden that poison hurts it now. 80 Speed lets Offensive Vibrava speed tie or outspeed Gardevoir, Tapu Bulu, Metagross, Cloyster, and more

Defensive Set / Stallbreaker Set -
252 Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vibrava in Grassy Terrain: 118-141 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vibrava: 188-224 (54.6 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vibrava: 280-332 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Toucannon Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vibrava: 85-102 (24.7 - 29.6%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock (checks easily unless Toucannon set up, as +2 BB 2HKOs)


Offensive Set -
252 SpA Vibrava Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Meganium: 140-168 (45.9 - 55%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 SpA Vibrava Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swalot: 218-258 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Vibrava Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 326-386 (89.5 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO


*I still have concerns about this, but we'll see if it wins. If it's broken, immediately replace it with Skill Swap.
 
Last edited:

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Just a quick question, would Core Enforcer be too good on this, or with a weaker (50 BP) Flying version of it?
I think Core Enforcer just wouldn't make much flavor sense - Vibrava outspeeds Swampert and Toucannon anyway so it won't be removing Poison Heal soon. If it were added, though, it can be 70 BP so that it's not outclassed by Air Slash.
 
Howdy, this is my first submission to the metagame. I looked real closely at the current mons submitted and accepted and played a few rounds against the bot and noticed we are lacking in the special wall departments for both, so I submit my beauty, Aggron!



Name of the Pokemon: Aggron
Role(s): Sand Setter, Hazard Setter, Special Wall, Trapper (Whirlpool/Pursuit), Stallbreaker(?)/Set up sweeper (Shift Gear)
Type: Ground/Steel
Abilities: Mold Breaker / Sand Stream / Resistant Coating
Stat Distribution: (70/70/65/55/85/59) BST 404
Movepool Additions:
Pursuit, Wish, Shift Gear
Movepool Removals: Head Smash, Heavy Slam, Stone Edge
Custom Elements: Resistant Coating is a Fur Coat clone which doubles SpDef instead of Def.
Justification: Don't let that low BST fool you! Aggron's SpDef gets a notable boost from setting sand, making it a bulky monster. Or, alternatively, it can choose to run a self-boosting stallier set, boosting its spdef to monstrous levels of 590 (at maximum spdef), making it definitely nothing to scoff at. Aggron can shrug off attacks from neutral attackers like Xurkitree and choose to set up Rocks or Toxic. Aggron also notably gets access to Whirlpool, and with the addition of Pursuit, mons that cant break Aggron have a choice to make: risk dying to a trap set or get caught by a pursuit. Wish grants Aggron a way to support its team outside of its sand. Alternatively, Aggron can use a Mold Breaker set to break teams that run Nihilego as their sole ground resist by running a shift gear set to boost its dismal speed and underwhelming attack alongside a STAB Earthquake and Iron Head set, but risks losing to bulky physical walls like Toucannon without running Stone Edge, and especially loses to Cofagrigus.

On the flip side, Aggron does require good support to use. If you're using it as a sand setter, its lack of a pivot move severely limits its ability to get in any sand abusers (In this scenario, Cacturne) or support its team with Wish. It also suffers from an underwhelming defense stat, meaning that physical sweepers can easily just laugh in the face of Aggron with an Earthquake, Fighting or Fire. STAB from a Rhydon, Trevenant, or interestingly enough, an enemy Cacturne absolutely obliterates it, and it also risks being trapped by Trapinch. Tapu Bulu gets a second mention for having Fire STAB as well as a good defense stat. If you are playing against another weather team and running Aggron as a sand setter, then Aggron also loses a sizable portion of its special bulk along with its sandstorm. If you're playing the Resistant Coating set, then you need a bulky defensive wall to work alongside Aggron, as its exceptional SpDef won't protect it from the entire opposite side of the spectrum. If you're running the Shift Gear set, Aggron once again requires support to get the ball rolling. It has a hard time switching in on physical attacks due to its bad physdef. It either requires a slow pivot or a passive wall to get the initial boost. Once it gets a shift gear going, that bad speed is enough to outspeed the mons that would ruin a defensive set, such as Tapu Bulu, but still lacks a way to punch through ground types.


I agree with the proposed +25 defense buff to Cacturne as it really needs it to get in.

EDIT: lowered base speed by 1 because it tied with Trevenant
 
Last edited:

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Howdy, this is my first submission to the metagame. I looked real closely at the current mons submitted and accepted and played a few rounds against the bot and noticed we are lacking in the special wall departments for both, so I submit my beauty, Aggron!



Name of the Pokemon: Aggron
Role(s): Sand Setter, Hazard Setter, Special Wall, Trapper (Whirlpool/Pursuit), Stallbreaker(?)/Set up sweeper (Shift Gear)
Type: Ground/Steel
Abilities: Mold Breaker / Sand Stream / Resistant Coating
Stat Distribution: (70/70/65/55/85/59) BST 404
Movepool Additions:
Pursuit, Wish, Shift Gear
Movepool Removals: Head Smash, Heavy Slam, Stone Edge
Custom Elements: Resistant Coating is a Fur Coat clone which doubles SpDef instead of Def.
Justification: Don't let that low BST fool you! Aggron's SpDef gets a notable boost from setting sand, making it a bulky monster. Or, alternatively, it can choose to run a self-boosting stallier set, boosting its spdef to monstrous levels of 590 (at maximum spdef), making it definitely nothing to scoff at. Aggron can shrug off attacks from neutral attackers like Xurkitree and choose to set up Rocks or Toxic. Aggron also notably gets access to Whirlpool, and with the addition of Pursuit, mons that cant break Aggron have a choice to make: risk dying to a trap set or get caught by a pursuit. Wish grants Aggron a way to support its team outside of its sand. Alternatively, Aggron can use a Mold Breaker set to break teams that run Nihilego as their sole ground resist by running a shift gear set to boost its dismal speed and underwhelming attack alongside a STAB Earthquake and Iron Head set, but risks losing to bulky physical walls like Toucannon without running Stone Edge, and especially loses to Cofagrigus.

On the flip side, Aggron does require good support to use. If you're using it as a sand setter, its lack of a pivot move severely limits its ability to get in any sand abusers (In this scenario, Cacturne) or support its team with Wish. It also suffers from an underwhelming defense stat, meaning that physical sweepers can easily just laugh in the face of Aggron with an Earthquake, Fighting or Fire. STAB from a Rhydon, Trevenant, or interestingly enough, an enemy Cacturne absolutely obliterates it, and it also risks being trapped by Trapinch. Tapu Bulu gets a second mention for having Fire STAB as well as a good defense stat. If you are playing against another weather team and running Aggron as a sand setter, then Aggron also loses a sizable portion of its special bulk along with its sandstorm. If you're playing the Resistant Coating set, then you need a bulky defensive wall to work alongside Aggron, as its exceptional SpDef won't protect it from the entire opposite side of the spectrum. If you're running the Shift Gear set, Aggron once again requires support to get the ball rolling. It has a hard time switching in on physical attacks due to its bad physdef. It either requires a slow pivot or a passive wall to get the initial boost. Once it gets a shift gear going, that bad speed is enough to outspeed the mons that would ruin a defensive set, such as Tapu Bulu, but still lacks a way to punch through ground types.


I agree with the proposed +25 defense buff to Cacturne as it really needs it to get in.

EDIT: lowered base speed by 1 because it tied with Trevenant
The main problem about Aggron is that it actually doesn't get a SpD boost from sand because it isn't Rock type. Additionally, 3 viable abilities probably isn't the way to go since leonard said to make Sand Stream the dominant ability. I'd suggest adding a Rock typing or buffing its bulk, and then change the abilities to not compete with Sand Stream.
 
The main problem about Aggron is that it actually doesn't get a SpD boost from sand because it isn't Rock type. Additionally, 3 viable abilities probably isn't the way to go since leonard said to make Sand Stream the dominant ability. I'd suggest adding a Rock typing or buffing its bulk, and then change the abilities to not compete with Sand Stream.
Ah, fuck, my bad.
I'll rework it a bit then.
 
Aggron Revisited



Name of the Pokemon: Aggron
Role(s): Sand Setter, Hazard Setter, Special Wall, Trapper (Whirlpool/Pursuit), Stallbreaker(?)/Set up sweeper (Shift Gear)
Type: Ground/Steel
Abilities: Mold Breaker / Sand Stream / Vital Spirit
Stat Distribution: (90/75/65/45/130/59) BST 464
Movepool Additions:
Pursuit, Wish, Shift Gear
Movepool Removals: Head Smash, Heavy Slam, Stone Edge
Custom Elements: N/A
Justification: Aggron once again joins the submissions!

Aggron maintains its excellent SpDef and defensive typing at the tradeoff of losing its Fur Coat clone. Much of what I said earlier still stands: this Aggron can still shrug off attacks from neutral attackers like Xurkitree and choose to set up Rocks or Toxic. Aggron also notably gets access to Whirlpool, and with the addition of Pursuit, mons that cant break Aggron have a choice to make: risk dying to a trap set or get caught by a pursuit. Wish grants Aggron a way to support its team outside of its sand. Its special defensive set serves as an excellent sand supporter, at the tradeoff of being somewhat passive. But Aggron also has an extra trick up its sleeve. With access to Shift Gear and Mold Breaker, Aggron can obliterate teams that use Nihilego as their only way to stop Ground types.

However, it still suffers much of the same issues. It's supporter set loses to hard hitting physical attackers. STAB from a Rhydon, Trevenant, or interestingly enough, an enemy Cacturne absolutely obliterates it, and its lack of a pivot move like U-Turn or Parting Shot means that a Trapinch is a quick way to delete it from the match due to its poor defense. It's offensive set suffers from having to set up to get moving, and its setup options are limited to mons that it can only wall with its natural bulk, and particularly good defensive walls like Bulu or Toucannon can just stand in front of it for a while.
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Ok voting time

Sand Setters:
Gravity Monkey's Hippopotas
Scoopapa's Typhlosion
Anaconja's Aerodactyl
leonard's Kommo-O
Tuther's Dugtrio
Jucherz' Bouffalant
Squawkerz' Sandslash

Stitch's Probopass
Author_Pendragon's Claydol
Yoshiblaze's Vibrava
Stealthbomber's Aggron

Cacturne Buffs:
Scoopapa
Anaconja
Tuther
Jucherz
Squawkerz

No Change

Voting rules for Sand Setters are the usual, you can only vote for your sub as your second choice or lower. For the Cacturne buffs, you can vote however you please, with "No Change" acting as votes against changing Cacturne at all.

My votes:
Sand Setter: Anaconja, Leonard, Jucherz
Cacturne: Scoopapa, Jucherz, Squawkerz
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top