CAP 32 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 1

[spoo]

Before you vote, it's important that you read through each concept carefully, as well as look at our TL spoo's final post in the concept submissions thread with their justification for each that made the slate, since this concept will guide the discussion for the rest of the CAP Process. This is linked here.

This will be a Ranked Pairs vote (RP) (a form of voting where each candidate is ranked according to head to head matchups with each of its competitors in a directed acyclic graph), the details of which were discussed here.

This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favorites and downvote your least favorites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account fully.

Bold your votes and nothing else!

A typical vote might look like the following:

Most Preferred
Second Most Preferred
Third Most Preferred

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IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the exact name of the concept submissions as listed below! The concept submissions are quoted below in order of submission:

Atypical Type Usage

Name: [/B]Atypical Type Usage

Description: This Pokemon would be built contrary to the biases its typing would suggest.

Justification: The offensive and defensive value of typing is a fundamental part of mons. Types and their various combinations possess varying levels of offensive/defensive bias. When one bias greatly outweighs the other, it is easy to lose sight of the value on the other end of the spectrum. This project will pick a typing with substantial bias in a singular direction and proceed to explore the other bias in greater detail.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What characteristics make a type/type combo offensively or defensively biased? How has the current landscape of the metagame impacted these biases?
• Given the lack of a specific release date for Pokemon HOME, how does this impact the selection of our type/typing? Does this alter the fact we “build for the current meta” at all?
• Given the previous 2 questions, is there a relationship between metagame state and a typing’s bias, or is the bias independent of metagame changes?
• Do some types have more tools (abilities and moves) available to them when pursuing the other bias?
• How does terastallizing impact the scope of this project? Should we build with it in mind, or does it diminish what we stand to learn?

Bang Average

Name: Bang Average

Description: This pokemon will attempt to circumvent average or below average stats to become viable.

Justification: Ou has always shown a massive preference towards mons with great statlines and high base stats, but there have always been exceptions to this rule. However in Cap we have always exclusively made mons with good to great stats, meaning we have left a lot of interesting design space untouched. There's a variety of ways we could go about a concept like this and I think this would be an illuminating and interesting project for us to engage with.

Questions:
What actually counts as average stats?
This will likely be up for some debate, as this is somewhat relative. 85 speed is a perfectly good speed stat on fini, but if zera had 85 speed it'd probably be in ru. As for bst, the lowest bst of ou ranked mons at the conclusion of ss (sv is a bit young to draw conclusions from) is Pelipper at 440, with Clefable in 2nd with 483. Both of these are undeniably average but 3rd lowest is Ferrothorn at 489, whose statline could definitely be seen as above average. It'd be pretty hard to deny that Toxapex has a better statline than Alolatales, despite the 10 point bst difference being in the fox's favour. Particular attention will have to be paid to how the stats synergise, rather than a flat interest in BST

How much stat efficiency is permissable?
To return to the above example part of what gives Ferro and Pex above average stats is the efficiency with which their bst is divided, with speed and various attacking stats being dropped in favour of juicing up defenses. Conversely, to use a lower tier example, Cobalion has a bst 91 points higher than ferro, but that bst is inefficiently distributed giving Cob mediocre attacking stats and good bulk on only one side. Despite it's high bst, Coba has pretty average stats. Obviously some degree of efficiency will be necessary but to what extent. Breloom has a frankly awful statline with the exception of it's attack, finding use through it's unique combination of other strong attributes. Is one stat pushing 130 fundamentally antithetical to the concept or is it permissable if all other stats take hits? Where do we draw that line?

Do we actually do stats first?
This is obviously a very stat centric concept, but there's good reasons that stats are usually done so late in the process. It'd certainly be a shake up to the process but you could probably still achieve a similar result with a more standard process order.

How does this affect our power budget?
The Chromera process afforded a large power budget to other aspects of the process to account for it's bad ability. To what extent, if any, do we allow that here? Remember that the goal here is using stats that are average or below average, not explicitly bad. The sort of affordances allowed in chroms process are almost certainly over the line, and honestly we could potentially make a perfectly reasonable end product without dipping into anything explicitly overpowered.

What types suit average stats, if any?
For example, dragon might be more suitable for it's access to strong stabs like Draco and Outrage that mitigate ower attacking stats. Psychic on the other hand may suit less well due to its reliance on weaker stabs. Are there typings that can work around mediocre bulk by leveraging unique or valuable defensive profiles?

What can we learn from gen 9?
The early stages of SV has given us some interesting examples of successful mons with average stats. In particular, we've been given two excellent examples of what to avoid. Espathra and Houndstone both clearly have very average stats with both having a sub 500 bst and highest individual stats of 105 and 101 respectively. These two became the lowest bst mons to be banned to ubers since Mega Sableye in oras. Houndstone isn't particularly interesting, as it was purely broken by virtue of having one of the most cracked moves to ever exist. Espathra is more notable, as it initially fell to uu before rising through the ranks thanks to it's stored power shenanigans and ridiculous tera synergy. Espathra shows us that even with pretty shit stats, we have to be careful to not overtune in other stages, which is definitely a tendency that we have in cap projects.

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal

Name: Good artists copy, great artists steal

Description: A pokemon that revisits old existing concepts and takes a more modern spin on it while going a completely different route with its execution than we did previously. Creating a distinctly different CAP functionally while still being notably similar through concept. (Think Convergent Species esque)

Justification: It's no secret to any CAP player that as time goes on, older-generation CAPs tend to lose touch with their initial concept. Whether that be buffs / nerfs needing to make them fit better in the current generation's metagame or the execution of the concept being products of their time, it's safe to say that sometimes no amount of reworking can save a CAP conceptually. Since we are at the beginning of a new generation, revisiting one of these more ancient concepts and executing it completely differently than we previously did while adapting it to work within generation 9 seems like a particularly fun prospect at this point in time. With the general infancy of generation 9, I find taking a more broad concept like this more appealing than the very particular ones as we are very much still polishing this meta.

Some examples of potential exploration might include;

-With the modern CAP framework avoiding custom abilities and moves, what would Colossoil's concept look like now? In the modern meta colo has kind of strayed away from its initial intention and is more of a bulky pivot that provides hazard removal, however, it faces a lot of competition currently as hazard removal and is easily overwhelmed due to its typing and general lack of longevity.​

-Tomohawk was a CAP specifically designed as a response to the BWOU metagame, as such its role has gradually strayed away from its initial concept since generation 5 alongside a gradually drop in viability. How might a CAP with Tomo's concept look now? How can we make a CAP with the same concept that is more generalized than Tomos initial creation?​

-Kitsunoh was created in a metagame that lacked team preview, how might a pokemon of a similar concept look now? The lack of team preview was an important aspect of Kitsunoh's creation and people of the time couldn't have predicted team previews addition and its impact on how we play the game.​

-Malacondas concept in today's metagame would likely end up wayyy different than its previous execution due to the addition of the fairy typing, type chart changes and the power creep being higher than it was in gen5.​

Questions To Be Answered:

-How can we adapt a concept designed for an older generation to fit within our current environment, while preserving its initial identity?​

-What niches/roles are considered valuable in generation 9 CAP? What niches/roles are not? How would that influence which concept we choose to redo?​

-How can we make CAP32 distinctively different than its predecessor?​

-How would we react to particular core features removed from the games that otherwise existed during the previous CAPs concept creation?​

-How would an older concept react to newer features? (abilities, moves, mechanics etc...)​

-Should we target a more complex concept or a simpler one? An ancient concept or one that is more recent in history?​

-Should we target a concept that is used by a CAP that has fallen out of favor or a concept used by a still viable CAP?​

-Should we choose a "failed" concept or a concept that was historically successful? (Plasmanta vs Astrolotl)​

-What past concepts should we consider unsalvagable? How should we determine which concepts are still viable in generation 9?​

-Should we stick to one concept altogether or find concepts that are similar functionally and combine them?​

Mini-Uber

Name: Mini-Uber

Description: This Pokemon replicates or is inspired by a strategy, play pattern or niche used by an Uber Pokemon.

Justification: Many of the Pokemon that reside in Ubers- be it this gen or in past gens- have playstyles and niches that are totally foreign to most other Pokemon and tiers. This concept seeks to explore both the design space of those roles and niches, as well as how balance and strength work in Pokemon, to create something that draws from the unique elements of the chosen Uber without being worthy of the tier itself.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What makes an Uber Pokemon interesting beyond just the power level?
• What roles or niches, or playstyles are unique to or common among Uber Pokemon?
• On average Ubers have better stats, abilities, and movepools than OU Pokémon - out of those 3, which are safe to take away without removing a Pokemon's identity? What of these traits define what Ubers?
• Will a Pokemon still be useful even when taken out of its native context (i.e. without the specific metagame threats it checks)?
• Is there room to explore certain Ubers' unique defensive and utility potential in addition to their offenses?
• How do the roles of past Ubers- those not currently available in SV- translate to the modern generation?
• How can Pokemon already deemed too strong for OU be replicated in a more balanced fashion?

Schrodinger's CAP

Name: Schrödinger's CAP

Description: The Pokémon’s abilities change the effect of parts of its moveset, thus changing the Pokémon's role in battle.

Justification: Designing a Pokémon with the ability to change its role on a team is difficult for many reasons, but one of the biggest difficulties CAP faces when creating a Pokémon like this is designing its movepool. Often, Pokémon that can fulfill different roles end up having heavily bloated, utility filled movepools, and with CAP's focus on producing a viable Pokémon, this effect is at its most extreme with certain processes. This concept, then, aims to explore a different path to achieving role diversity. Rather than giving Pokémon a bloated, utility-heavy movepool, this concept aims to explore the possible utility options found in the interactions between certain abilities and moves, and limiting the movepool size of the Pokémon while using different abilities to change the utility found in that movepool. Examples of this can include using abilities such as Prankster vs Mycelium Might to create a Pokémon that can switch between fast or slow pivoting, or Triage vs Berserk to change a Pokémon from being a passive wall to being a bulky setup sweeper with the same recovery tool.

Questions to be asked:

• Depending on the roles and abilities chosen, how important is it for the opponent to be able to "open the box" (aka know what role is being run)?
• What are some utility options that CAP hasn't explored before? How can information discovered during this process be applied to CAP processes in the future?
• What are some examples of Pokémon with multiple viable abilities? How do these examples align or contrast with the goal of this concept?
• How do the specified moves interact with each ability? how much should these interactions compare/contrast with one another?
• How might two role-defining abilities affect a Pokémon's versatility?
• How do we prevent one ability in a pair from completely overshadowing the other?
• How might Terastalizing affect this concepts goal? Can Terastalizing change how a move other than Tera Blast is used in a battle?
• How do multiple roles in a concept affect certain stages of the process? Similarly, how does the given movepool restrictions affect move-related stages of the process?
• How have CAP concepts that focused on having multiple or changing roles turned out in the past? How do they compare with this concept? How has movepool bloat affected previous CAP projects?
• How would this concept affect stage order? Specifically, how would both the ability and move stages be ordered?

Snowballer

Name: Snowballer

Description: This pokémon would slowly get stronger throughout a match and scale from something minor to a major threat

Justification:
In gen 9 Pokémon have introduced more interesting and unique concepts for Pokémon then they ever have in previous generations and one of these areas that they’ve explored with the new Pokémon are mons that slowly get better throughout a match and win cons that start slow and ramp up throughout a match to become a major problem. However Gen 9 has failed on this front by tipping the scales too far and gone to the extreme, leading to the likes of rage fist, last respects and Espathra becoming too centralising and too easy of a strategy to pull off. This project aims to explore a way to make a CAP that would keep this slow build up style of mon whilst making it so that the Pokémon would have sufficient counter play which should lead to interesting strategies and win cons.

Questions to be answered:

• Would the focus be more on a Pokémon that slowly gets stronger as the match progresses or stronger as it is out on the field
• How would we ensure that the mon stays viable without tipping it into unfair territory
• How do we make it so this mon would be able to pull off the slow playstyle in a fast meta
• How do you make sure that a mon like this would be able to break past certain killers for this play style? For example how would this mon get past unaware? Should this mon get past unaware?
• Should a Pokémon like this be a one trick pony? Or should it be able to function on it’s own such that it can be used throughout the match
• What would be the best counter measures for a mon like this so that it has sufficient counter play

Speed Demon

Name: Speed Demon

Description: This Pokemon excels at moving first on any given turn, and uses this to great benefit.

Justification:
This project will explore the unique realm of mons that move first, whether for offensive, defensive or utility-based reasoning, and how these benefits warp the strength of the rest of the mon's qualities as they are bolstered by going first in the turn order. We have seen a glimpse in OU/CAP of how ultrafast mons dont adhere to the regular requirements of regular mon's offensive stats and overall BST over the years, some fascinating examples including Talonflame and Tornadus-T, and we've seen how defensive mons with high prio moves have been able to improve their defensive profile drastically, such as Sableye. In this concept we will explore the true value of priority, the speed stat, and a range of speed-focused abilities and items.

Questions to be answered:

• What are the viable qualities (abilities, moves, stats, items) to outspeed opponents on a given turn? Which offer this strength reliably?
• How do the various qualities to outspeed opponents interact? Is there a hierarchy of speed, with a strongest tool at the top, or is there a cyclical relationship between outspeeding methods?
• What mons are resistant to, and which are most affected by being outsped?
• How does moving first affect the required offensive stats to revenge kill Pokemon?
• How does moving first affect a Pokemon's ability to take more hits?
• Does typing interact with turn order? If so, how does moving first enable/disallow certain typings to be successful?

Trap Card

Final Submission

Name: Trap Card

Description: A Pokemon that receives power from its opponent.

Justification: The game provides many forms of you receiving power from your opponent. They are uncommon simply because they are much less convenient. But the benefit (as well as the interesting part) of these kinds of boosts is that they punish the opponent’s actions. This concept aims to explore this side of it, and to create opportunities where the opponent must play extra carefully or else they will be benefiting you instead of themselves.

There is also plenty of flexibility in terms of the various stages of the CAP process, and should lead to plenty of interesting discussions. For example, there are lots of abilities that achieve the idea of powering up from your opponent, and we don’t even have to use an ability in order to do that.

Questions:

• What kind of boost is the best boost? Is it a boost to speed, bulk, raw power, or something else?
• What area should we target the power boost? Is our best choice an ability, an item, or something else?
• How big should this power boost be?
• How much should CAP 32 depend on this power boost?
• Is there a risk of CAP 32 not being able to find enough opportunities to receive power from its enemies?
• How do we ensure that CAP 32 will be able to find opportunities from its enemies as the metagame evolves?

Once again, your options are:

Atypical Type Usage
Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Schrodinger's CAP
Snowballer
Speed Demon
Trap Card

Please ensure your ballot uses the concept names listed above in bold and not the usernames of the submitters. This vote will end in 24 hours, so please do not feel rushed, and instead ensure you make an informed decision!

This poll will be open for 24 hours.

 

[spoo]

Mini-Uber
Bang Average
Atypical Type Usage
Speed Demon
Schrodinger's CAP
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Trap Card
Snowballer

 

[ausma]

Speed Demon
Schrodinger's CAP
Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Trap Card
Atypical Type Usage
Mini-Uber
Snowballer

 

[SHSP]

Mini-Uber
Speed Demon
Atypical Type Usage
Snowballer
Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Trap Card
Schrodinger's CAP

 

[Gryoine]

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Atypical Type Usage
Bang Average
Mini-Uber
Schrodinger's CAP
Speed Demon
Snowballer
Trap Card

 

[Pipotchi]

Speed Demon
Schrodinger's CAP
Snowballer
Trap Card
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Atypical Type Usage
Bang Average

 

[Explosion Badger]

Schrodinger's CAP
Bang Average
Speed Demon
Trap Card
Atypical Type Usage
Mini-Uber
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Snowballer

 

[IronTemplar]

Speed Demon
Snowballer
Atypical Type Usage
Schrodinger's CAP
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Bang Average
Trap Card
Mini-Uber

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Trap Card
Mini-Uber
Schrodinger's CAP
Speed Demon
Bang Average
Atypical Type Usage
Snowballer

 

[Mova]

Speed Demon
Snowballer

 

[SunMYSER]

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Schrodinger's CAP
Speed Demon
Trap Card
Snowballer
Bang Average
Atypical Type Usage

 

[skippergamez]

Schrodinger's CAP
Bang Average
Atypical Type Usage
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Snowballer
Trap Card
Speed Demon

 

[Katabatic]

Mini-Uber
Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Speed Demon
Trap Card
Schrodinger's CAP
Snowballer
Atypical Type Usage

 

[chartung17]

Bang Average
Speed Demon
Atypical Type Usage
Schrodinger's CAP
Trap Card
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Snowballer

 

[Brown4Sides]

Trap Card
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Bang Average
Schrodinger's CAP
Mini-Uber
Speed Demon
Snowballer
Atypical Type Usage

 

[Lesbeon]

Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Snowballer
Schrodinger's CAP
Trap Card
Speed Demon
Atypical Type Usage

 

[sneakyjeans]

Bang Average
Mini-Uber
Speed Demon
Schrodinger's CAP
Trap Card
Atypical Type Usage
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Snowballer

 

[Wulfanator]

Atypical Type Usage
Mini-Uber
Speed Demon
Trap Card
Snowballer
Bang Average
Schrodinger's CAP
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal

 

[YamiTheYin]

Bang Average
Schrodinger's CAP
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Mini-Uber
Atypical Type Usage
Trap Card

 

[Yu_IOTJ]

Bang Average
Schrodinger's CAP
Speed Demon
Trap Card
Atypical Type Usage
Mini-Uber
Snowballer
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal

 

[snake]

Bang Average
Mini-Uber
Schrodinger's CAP
Speed Demon
Snowballer
Atypical Type Usage
Trap Card
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal

 

[quziel]

Mini-Uber
Bang Average
Trap Card
Snowballer
Speed Demon
Atypical Type Usage
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Schrodinger's CAP

 

[Weakness Policy Contrary]

Mini-Uber
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Atypical Type Usage

 

[Atha]

Bang Average
Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Schrodinger's CAP
Snowballer
Trap Card
Speed Demon
Mini-Uber
Atypical Type Usage

 

[MrPanda]

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal
Bang Average
Atypical Type Usage
Schrodinger's CAP
Mini-Uber
Trap Card
Snowballer
Speed Demon