CAP 31 - Part 16 - Flavor Ability Discussion

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Quanyails

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CAP Co-Leader
CAP 31 So Far

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Please pay very close attention to Darek's posts during this thread and remain on topic.

Some general rules for this discussion:
  • Custom abilities are banned. No exceptions. Posts suggesting custom abilities will be deleted.
  • There are ability banlists for the different stages of ability discussion. Posts suggesting banned abilities will be deleted.
The following abilities are banned from this discussion:

Arena Trap
As One
Aura Break
Bad Dreams
Battle Bond
Chilling Neigh
Dark Aura
Dauntless Shield
Delta Stream
Desolate Land
Disguise
Dragon's Maw
Fairy Aura
Flower Gift
Forecast
Full Metal Body
Grim Neigh
Gulp Missile
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Illusion
Imposter
Intrepid Sword
Moody
Multitype
Neuroforce
Power Construct
Primordial Sea
Prism Armor
RKS System
Schooling
Shadow Shield
Shadow Tag
Shields Down
Soul Heart
Stance Change
Teravolt
Transistor
Turboblaze
Unseen Fist
Victory Star
Wonder Guard
Zen Mode

Bulletproof
Color Change*
Defeatist
Dry Skin
Flash Fire
Fur Coat
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Ice Scales
Libero*
Levitate
Lightning Rod
Magic Guard
Mimicry*
Motor Drive
Parental Bond
Protean*
Pure Power
Regenerator
Sap Sipper
Slow Start
Stall
Storm Drain
Truant
Volt Absorb
Water Absorb
Water Bubble

Beast Boost
Comatose
Drizzle
Drought
Electric Surge
Fluffy
Grassy Surge
Innards Out
Magic Bounce
Misty Surge
Prankster
Psychic Surge
Sand Spit
Sand Stream
Snow Warning
Speed Boost
Stamina
Steam Engine
Triage
 
Hey everyone, we're nearing the end of Saharaja's full release, so let's talk about our flavor ability. Since we already have Water Absorb and Serene Grace, we have the option of Saharaja having just these two abilities, so No Flavor Ability will automatically be slated.

Feel free to discuss whatever abilities you think would be good flavor for Saharaja, but remember that these abilities should have no competitive niche. As such, be sure to not only explain why your ability submission fits Saharaja well, but also why it does not overbear on Saharaja competitively. Happy posting!
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
I know its already on slate, but No Flavor Ability actually looking kind of decent. Both Water Absorb and Serene Grace have pretty immaculate flavor as is from both a camel perspective and a more authority one, so I could see us not having a third. I do have a couple of thoughts for a flavor though and I do still prefer having one, I just don't hate not having one.

Anger Point: Camerupt has this so we could possibly be camel bros with this. Camels can be shockingly aggressive and Anger Point mocks this a little bit. It also works the kingly aesthetic as well, since kings in fiction are also quick to aggrevate.

Keen Eye: I kinda like how it plays off Diamond Storm a little bit, since it shows that Saharaja has a keen eye for gemstones. It's funny, but also the eyes aren't visible in the design so its really just a funny correlation.

Sand Veil: Its evasion so it won't see use, but it does fit the whole desert aesthetic so that is nice.
 
Personally, I'm primarily in the No Flavor Ability camp due to Saharaja's 580 BST, a total that has thus far been exclusive to legendaries. Legendary Pokemon that have more than one ability only have two, a regular and hidden ability.
However, if we do go with a flavor ability then I think Competitive would be suitable. While the ability is sometimes used in, well, competitive, Saharaja isn't exactly going to be using it with its 65 Special Attack. Being the rich, haughty jerk that it is, I feel like Saharaja would have a somewhat competitive nature over looks and riches.
 
Lightning Rod does nothing for this mon given its poor Special movepool and Ground typing. There's plenty of points on it that could be seen as attracting electricity and if Marowak/Seaking can get it so can this.

I think it'd be fun to include Pressure, an otherwise decent ability if not for the fact that Saharaja relies heavily on Water Absorb to function, and Pressure immediately announces that you are not running Water Absorb. idk flavor justifcation uh diamonds need intense pressure ot be made and like lol, its ahgru very much an english joke hahae
 
Alright! Let’s get rolling.

To begin with some simpler ones, Sand Force and Sand Veil are two abilities relatively common on Ground-types with no competitive use. I personally prefer Sand Veil given how fellow desert-related animal Pokémon Sandaconda and Gligar/Gliscor get it, with the former even having it as its hidden, which means there is precedent for it to be a hidden ability. Either works just fine though.
Edit: Sand Spit, if freed, is also superb flavor I love it

Hydration and Rain Dish tie into Saharaja similarly to Water Absorb, but given that this is a camel they definitely fit, even if usually they are reserved for Water-types.

I think my favorite idea for a flavor ability has to be Dazzling. While Water Absorb touches on the fact that this is a camel and Serene Grace taps into the royalty aspect, Dazzling works off of the fact that its diamonds would, naturally, be very shiny. It does also play off of the majestic nature of Saharaja, but I think that makes it even more fitting. The only real issue would be potential competitive implications, but given how it literally only actually benefits Saharaja compared to other abilities in a scenario where it is staring down a Weavile choice-locked into Ice Shard and maybe if Rillaboom becomes relevant again, I think it’d be fine?? If even that’s too competitive then I guess I’d get it though. Otherwise, Dazzling is a very interesting and fun suggestion as a flavor ability imo. If people feel it, Queenly Majesty works too, although some may feel that the “queenly” disqualifies this goatee-rocking Camel. Either way this pair of abilities is fun to think about.
 

Astra

skill issue
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I honestly couldn't really think of any abilities that are just flavor and fit Saharaja well; Water Absorb and Serene Grace I feel cover a lot already in regards to flavor alongside their competitiveness. I guess Own Tempo and Inner Focus somewhat fit, as camels are usually associated with travelling and endurance.

Curious Medicine also works, as camels are able to produce "alternative medicine" that humans can actually find use for (find out how they produce it yourself) (don't actually vote for this).

Obviously, though, my vote will one hundred percent go to Sand Spit if it's freed.
 
I feel that Dazzling would be a fitting flavour ability for Saharaja, since it’s a royal camel with diamonds on its back. Priority blocking seems a bit powerful, but considering how it only has a max invested Speed of 306 and Rapid Spin remains its only way of boosting that, it isn’t something that could snowball into an unmanageable threat that benefits from Dazzling. Corviknight, Landorus-T and Equilibra remain counters to it anyways. It isn’t fast enough that it benefits from Dazzling and it can’t sweep with how shallow its movepool is either.
 

Unsee

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is an Artist
Apart from the previous suggestions: Klutz, Run Away, and Slow Start all seem fitting and benign to me. I like the idea of Saharaja being too proud to use any items other than the diamonds on its back. I would suggest Heatproof, but I think it might be a little too game-changing in battle.

I’m going to have to disagree with those proposing Dazzling. It is an immense power to block all priority moves while on the field — though it’s quite flavorful, it’s not a good fit for a flavor ability.

I’ll take Sand Spit any day, though!

Edit: regarding my anti-Dazzling vendetta — it might just be my Double Battle mindset getting the best of me. I’m not sure. But with Venomicon getting Power of Alchemy, a Doubles-only ability, it doesn’t seem too absurd to be additionally cautious here.

…even though CAP Doubles doesn’t exist.

…even though it would be awesome.
 
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Of the ones suggested, Sand Spit, Sand Veil, Anger Point & Own Tempo have my support. I'm on the fence with Dazzling until someone can do the calcs for Aqua Jet, Ice Shard and Grassy Glide. For my own suggestions, Clear Body to mimic Carbink and Diancie, assuming the ability to block stat drops is not seen as overpowered, Steadfast, if to fit in with its royal motifs, and for an absolute joke, Truant, because it's a lazy snob.
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
Going to talk in regards to some abilities that have already been discussed

Dazzling: While I like the flavor, the competitive implications here are too big for this to be worth considering. SD Rapid Spin Sets would absolutely appreciate the ability to block stuff like Ice Shard from Weavile and Grassy Glide from Rillaboom (Even if the later isn't that common right now).

Sand Spit: I'm going to go against the crowd here and say that I think this shouldn't be unbanned (Even though the flavor is perfect). While it's clear to everybody that this ability is inferior to Sand Stream overall, I think people are overstating just how bad it is. Sand is still an incredibly powerful weather (It's success in WCoP is a good indicator of this) and given our bulk, it's really not too hard to imagine that we would be able to get it up a couple times over the course of a battle.

Inner Focus, Own Tempo, & Heatproof: These were all talked about in Secondary Flavor Discussion, obviously do not include.

Slow Start: I would rather we avoid giving out Legendary Signature Abilities in a flavor stage.

Sand Veil: In my opinion, this is the safest pick. Makes good flavor sense and we don't have to worry about any competitive implications since its banned.

Anyways, I don't have to many suggestions of my own to bring up at the moment.
 
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Zetalz

Expect nothing, deliver less
is a Pre-Contributor
Sand Spit: I'm going to go against the crowd here and say that I think this shouldn't be unbanned (Even though the flavor is perfect). While it's clear to everybody that this ability is inferior to Sand Stream overall, I think people are overstating just how bad it is. Sand is still an incredibly powerful weather (It's success in WCoP is a good indicator of this) and given our bulk, it's really not too hard to imagine that we would be able to get it up a couple times over the course of a battle.
Context matters though. In a vacuum Sand Spit technically is a usable ability but on Saharaja, it loses a lot of it's perceived value. The biggest competitive niche Sand Spit has (since it cannot really compete with Sand Stream) is changing opposing weather through the opponent's own action. But when you take into context what weather exists right now you see where the cracks form. Against Rain Saharaja would much rather have Water Absorb since it can eat Rain teams alive, why bother with potentially removing their rain when you can do that. And then if you're running it on Sand builds, you'd still want Water Absorb! Because a Water-immune mon is a great thing to have on Sand teams! It's worth far more than having another (bad) Sand setter. When you actually look at the full context of Saharaja as a mon and not at the ability in a vacuum you really see how totally outcompeted Sand Spit is by Water Absorb, it has no merit to be used over it or a mon with Sand Stream proper.
 
Apart from the previous suggestions: Klutz, Run Away, and Slow Start all seem fitting and benign to me. I like the idea of Saharaja being too proud to use any items other than the diamonds on its back. I would suggest Heatproof, but I think it might be a little too game-changing in battle.

I’m going to have to disagree with those proposing Dazzling. It is an immense power to block all priority moves while on the field — though it’s quite flavorful, it’s not a good fit for a flavor ability.

I’ll take Sand Spit any day, though!

Edit: regarding my anti-Dazzling vendetta — it might just be my Double Battle mindset getting the best of me. I’m not sure. But with Venomicon getting Power of Alchemy, a Doubles-only ability, it doesn’t seem too absurd to be additionally cautious here.

…even though CAP Doubles doesn’t exist.

…even though it would be awesome.
There should genuinely be a CAP Doubles mode available on Showdown tbh
 
Overcoat

Saharajah's design is inspired by Middle Eastern clothing originally used to protect from sandstorms, which Overcoat fits both in flavor and in mechanics. Obviously Saharajah doesn't take damage from sand anyway so no fear for it being used competitively.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Regarding Sand Spit I do think it does fit flavorfully so I have no objections there. From a more competitive mindset I think there a bit of both overestimation and underestimation for it, but really shouldn't be that problematic. Being a Ground-type Sand setter with Rapid Spin and more offensive than Hippowdon is at least a decent niche and it is not the worst thing in the world to actually activate, so it does have at least some competitive implications. With that said, it is still far and away outshined as an ability by Water Absorb in the context of Saharaja so I'm not actually sure how much it will see use compared to the extremely useful weakness immunity. Thoughts kinda lie in its debatably better than Serene Grace but still much worse than Water Absorb, so I seriously don't think it'll be a massive issue.

Dazzling though I feel similarly to Da Pizza Man on. While not really being super crazy in the zone of Saharaja due to Water Absorb and its high physical defense (the side that most priority falls under), blocking straight up all priority is still a really strong effect and could spiral out of control on Spin SD sets, at least theoretically. Its a bit more futureproofy of a reason than I like and I understand that Saharaja is a built for a meta where its already pretty alright against priority, but this could get away from it so I'd rather not deal with it.
 
Of the abilities mentioned so far, I believe Own Tempo and Dazzling seem most fitting of Saharaja in my eyes. However, with concerns regarding Dazzling expressed by others, I do find myself more inclined to side with the likes of Own Tempo. Sand Veil also makes sense, I could entirely see a desert camel getting the ability.

I personally would like to suggest Emergency Exit. The ability builds quite well on the regal aspects of Saharaja's design, and of the possible self-preservation abilities, Emergency Exit keeps Saharaja's dignity in tact the most.
 
Hey everybody, here's a quick update on Ability bans and unbans:

Dazzling is banned. Due to Saharaja's access to Speed boosting in Rapid Spin, Dazzling has the potential to mess with revenge killers such as Ice Shard Weavile and Grassy Glide Rillaboom.

Sand Spit is unbanned. Sand Spit is pretty inferior to Sand Stream, and Saharaja doesn't do much better than Hippowdon as a pure Ground Sand setter, especially without Water Absorb.
 
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