CAP 31 - Part 10 - Moveset Discussion

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1) What other archetypes could we fill with given our defining moves?


Defensive Burner/ Flincher

Fire Fang: almost 40 percent chance to burn/flich with serene grace. It will be an increadible move to hit and preserve DStorm pp againt corvi, ferro, equilibra, and lando

Diamond storm (self explanatatory)
Earthquake (self explanatatory)
Recovery option (longevity)

All Out Offense:

Flare Blitz: 20 percent chance to burn with Serene Grace and is a great choice paired with SD
Diamond storm (self explanatatory)
Earthquake (self explanatatory)
Sword Dance (self explanatatory)



2) Our utility movepool right now is: Thunder Wave, Taunt, and Rapid Spin. Are there other utility options worth considering? Or would any other option be generally not worth running?

Psych Up would be excellent to regain advantage against set up sweepers and has good synergy with DS if you copy a the stats of a Calm minder or a coil user
 

Rabia

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So from discussion, the two most referenced archetypes are pretty clearly based around Swords Dance/Taunt wallbreaking and general utility with Rapid Spin. A couple nods have been mentioned to more defensive routes, but they haven't gained much traction.

I'm going to simplify "Grass-type coverage" to just Power Whip. It's the only move that's actually been talked about and thus should be the one we focus on.

I'm approving Heal Bell. I agree that it could work as a niche way to counteract Toxic as counterplay and provide general utility a la Dragonite.

I'm not going to act on Poison Jab/Fang as of now. I find their applicability pretty niche and agree with the sentiment that they seem like nothing more than an attempt to make Serene Grace sets do more. I'm still fine to see them brought up in actual sets because I'm not convinced either is broken or anti-concept, but that could change.

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I think we're now good to move onto actual set submitting. Keep in mind our approved/banned moves lists when submitting sets; any sets that don't adhere to them are subject to scrutiny. This isn't to say you cannot make a push for a move not currently approved, but you need to defend it quite well.

I want us first to focus on Swords Dance sweeper and Taunt stallbreaker variants, as these were the most discussed throughout our previous stages. I'll give us about 48 hours for submissions of sets that fit these archetypes.
 

dex

En Aften Ved Svanefossen
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Moveset Submission
Name: Taunt Stallbreaker
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Taunt
Move 4: Pain Split
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant

Essentially, this set destroys bulky teams that rely on passively checking CAP 31. The EVs with Adamant allow CAP 31 to outpace Timid Heatran and 2HKO Toxapex with Earthquake. Taunt and Pain Split actually make Corviknight not as solid into this as it is into other sets, particularly if rocks are up.
 
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Moveset Submission

Name: Geomancy 2x2: Diamond Is Unbreakable
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Swords Dance
Move 4: Rapid Spin
Ability: Water Absorb / Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
Nature: Adamant
  • Maximum Attack investment and solid coverage in EQ + DStorm gives this set plenty of breaking and setup opportunities, especially if we manage to acquire a +2 Defense boost.
  • Swords Dance allows it to apply heavy pressure onto the opponent by boosting our attack versus passive mons or as the opponent switches to a check that cannot OHKO us.
  • Rapid Spin doubles as team support by removing hazards on our side of the field, while also letting 31 outspeed the entire unboosted metagame after the Speed boost.
  • 252 Speed is enough to outpace max Speed Heatran.
  • Leftovers is a general-purpose item meant to aid our inherent defensive qualities while also minimizing any chip we take over the course of a game.
  • Either of Water Absorb or Serene Grace works here, the former providing tons of defensive value and switch-in/setup opportunity, and the latter making Diamond Storm near-guaranteed to boost our Defense, letting us play aggressively into Physical Attackers and turn them into setup fodder.

I have seen this set (or some alteration of it) used a fair bit on the test server and it is very powerful if left unchecked. Becomes hard to Revenge Kill at +2 Defense and +1 Speed while being a ferocious attacker thanks to high BP moves and excellent coverage. Can easily accrue more SD boosts if given the chance, making it harder to stop.

I have never watched JoJo the name just sounded funny and is a meme Give me Likes.
 

Brambane

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Moveset Submission
Name: Fast Bulky Booster
Move 1: Leech Seed / Pain Split
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Swords Dance
Move 4: High Horsepower / Earthquake
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 200 HP / 56 Attack / 252 Speed
Nature: Adamant

56 Adamant hits the EV bump for 330 Attack, which will threaten to 2HKO all Ferrothorn at +2 even with Leftovers (full physdef ferro is like 54% chance.) Max Speed for outspeeding Timid Heatran to pop balloon with Diamond Storm. Rest dumped in HP. Final moveslot is more suited for recovery for this set, either Pain Split or Leech Seed, if that gets approved.
 
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Zetalz

Expect nothing, deliver less
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Most of the good sets have been posted, therefore it is now time to post some grade A(V) cringe. Please utilize caution when viewing the following submission.

Moveset Submission
Name: Assault Vest
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Horn Leech / Power Whip
Move 4: Rapid Spin / Body Press / Sucker Punch
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Assault Vest
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant / Jolly

Behold, bad AV Melmetal. In all seriousness, this set is incredibly niche but has just enough useful applications that I think it'd be somewhat usable on specific team structures. While capable of eating up a lot of the strong special attackers in the tier, this set specifically aims to be an offensive sponge than can switch into Stratagem as it beams and comfortably pressure it out, something that sdsplit can't do super reliably (you need to be at near full for split to get you out of range of the second fire blast but it doesn't put gem in range of dstorm either).

Horn Leech is the funny tech option for this set, a sort of mid-ground option bridging Pain Split/Power Whip. A more accurate Grass move to bonk Strata and Fini that also maintains some longevity is nice to have, especially given the tendency of Fini to wear 31 down over time. Power Whip is still a good option nonetheless just to have that guaranteed big damage into Fini or Bro since you lack set-up pressure. Last slot is pretty malleable, Spin offers some measure of team support if you're lacking in removal though lack the sweeping potential of SD. Body Press is an admittedly low impact move but does give 31 a way to not instantly lose to the likes of Libra or Ferro (to an extent) if you don't need other utility particularly bad. Sucker Punch is an option to keep 31 competitive vs fast breakers that it can't as easily out tank like Pult or Blace. Both of these are not necessary however if they end up not being approved as spin is adequate enough for a 4th slot.

Might add funny calcs later
 
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Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
Most of the good sets have been posted, therefore it is now time to post some grace A cringe. Please utilize caution when viewing the following submission.

Moveset Submission
Name: Grace Kelly
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Body Slam / Thunder Wave
Move 4: Rock Slide / Pain Split
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Special Defense / 88 Speed
Nature: Careful

I think this is about as close as we will get to a full Serene Grace abuser. Rock Slide could really be any flinching move, but a non-contact one makes the most sense to me to avoid Rocky Helmet chip. It also somewhat preserves the PP of Diamond Storm against dumb shit like Corviknight. Other contenders include Iron Head and Zing Zap imo. 88 Speed is enough to outpace Scarf Lele after paralysis. This set is really fucking tanky.
 
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Moveset Submission

Name: Serene Grace SD
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Swords Dance
Move 4: Taunt/Poison Jab/Force Palm
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers/Rawst Berry
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly

Serene Grace 31 is a powerful mid/lategame win condition that is more difficult to revenge kill on the physical side. Swords Dance+Taunt+ Diamond Storm creates a much more favourable matchup against Buzzwole. Diamond Storm followed up by Taunt effectively shuts down Toxic Buzzwole. +2 Earthquake, 2HKOs Slowbro, and +2 Diamond Storm backed by Taunt shuts down Corviknight. Poison Jab can be used to lure strong Grass types like Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu. Force Palm wasn't discussed prior, but it's another potential coverage option beyond Poison Jab that can spread Paralysis and offer better coverage than Body Slam.

Moveset Submission

Name: Serene Grace Toxic Staller
Move 1: Diamond Storm
Move 2: Poison Fang
Move 3: Pain Split/Leech Seed
Move 4: Taunt/Substitute
Ability: Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 224 HP / 240 Def / 44 Spe
Nature: Impish


Poison Fang, Taunt, and Diamond Storm make 31 an annoying stallbreaker that loves to stay on the field and spread Toxic damage. When used by a Pokemon with Serene Grace, Poison Fang is transformed from a weak move with a coinflip secondary effect to a physical move that badly poisons targets, dealing more damage than Toxic over the same amount of turns. Obviously, this can't touch Ferrothorn, although Ferrothorn can't do much back outside of Power Whip, which can't break a sub after Diamond Storm. Speedcreeps wall Buzzwole and Ice Punch can't break past 31 after a Diamond Storm and Leech Seed. May also function as a SubSeeder, although you do not necessarily need Substitute if you run Leech Seed.
 

Rabia

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Rapidfire approval of moves:
- Leech Seed, it's very similar to Pain Split except walled by Ferrothorn and has good application when considering how to maximize field time with Diamond Storm boosts
- Horn Leech, compresses recovery + Grass-type move into one and that sounds fine
- Body Press, clear synergy with Diamond Storm and doesn't have insane consequences with our checks/counters list outside of Ferrothorn somewhat
- Sucker Punch, priority never got a lot of hype + Speed boosting concerns already noted, but it's non-STAB and has natural room for outplay
- Body Slam, sure it's low impact and works as a damaging Thunder Wave for Serene Grace sets
- Rock Slide, sure it has no practical reason to be used over Diamond Storm ever
- Poison Jab, feels low impact enough and isn't as crippling as Toxic poison; can be reevaluated if necessary

veto of moves:
- Force Palm, it's weak but with Swords Dance being a reliable boost I start to worry more about our checks and counters list and how that shapes up
- Poison Fang, it's less reliable Toxic and I don't feel it to be worth introducing

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This next stage I want to talk about any other set archetypes beyond Swords Dance and Stallbreaker ones. We haven't seen a whole lot of talk on these because people seem pretty dedicated to the former two routes, so I'm going to only open this set submission stage for 24 hours.
 
Moveset Submission

Name: Bulky Hazard Control
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Pain Split / Horn Leech
Move 4: Rapid Spin / Stealth Rock
Ability: Water Absorb / Serene Grace
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Impish

If you're tired of putting defensive Lando on all of your teams, bulky hazard control CAP 31 to the rescue. This set is probably too passive to be as viable as Swords Dance sets, but I think after that and Stallbreaker this is probably the next best thing. I went for a physically defensive set but you could also probably go for specially defensive, though even if you go full specially defensive you're not taking a Balloon Heatran Eruption very well. So of course, this set has EVs that allow it to outspeed Heatran, with the rest being poured into physical bulk. Of course, the EVs could probably be changed around. Over other Ground spinners in the tier it has a Scald immunity as opposed to a weakness and handles Zeraora better, over other Ground rockers it still has that Scald immunity and also recovery options in Pain Split and Horn Leech, which aren't great, but are more than what Lando has at least.
 
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Zetalz

Expect nothing, deliver less
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Moveset Submission
Name: SpDef Sponge
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Stealth Rock / Pain Split
Move 4: Taunt / Pain Split / Rapid Spin
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 92 HP / 104 Atk / 160 SpDef / 152 Speed
Nature: Jolly

This set aims to be an annoyingly fat rocks setter that can comfortably put rocks up and keep them up vs the various removers in the tier not named Libra and just be an annoying special sponge. EVs outrun Timid Heatran, HP hits 304 (lefties number) while still keeping it low enough for good split healing (same as max hp rotom), SpDef turns Timid Magma Storm into a 3HKO after factoring in rocks, lefties and trapping (also turns offensive zap cane into a 3hko). Rest thrown into attack. Taunt is the preferred 4th move with Rocks, but Split is nice to lean more into a sort of bulky pivot role. Spin is also usable if extra removal is needed but slots are tight as is and it's low on the priorities list.
 
Moveset Submission:
Name: Better Utility Excadrill

Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Rapid Spin / Taunt
Move 4: Stealth Rock / Toxic / Pain Split
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 92 HP / 168 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Careful

Remember when Excadrill was still OU and it had a bulky Utility set it ran? No? Well that’s cause it was extremely frail, Flying and Water types tormented it, it had a meh defensive typing and couldn’t use a SpD boosting nature at the risk of being outsped and KO’d by Timid Heatran and those same Water types.

This thing on the other hand does exactly what Excadrill tried but actually works in the end. The listed EVs and a SpD boosting nature make Hurricane a guaranteed 4HKO from bulky Zapdos and Magma Storm a 3HKO from Defensive AND Offensive Heatran. In the case of avoiding that 3HKO, a maxed-out Speed stat without a Jolly nature allows CAP31 to outspeed Timid Heatran and Defensive Zapdos to immediately threaten them before they can even start spamming their STAB. Thanks to Water Absorb, it also counters the Kanto Slowtwins by avoiding their Scald burns completely and tanking uninvested Future Sights, with them only having a 62.5% chance to merely 4HKO. Earthquake serves as STAB to take down Heatran and other Steels outside of Equilibra and Corviknight. Diamond Storm is your spammable Rock coverage that can make you even bulkier in the face of Weavile, Corv and Lando while also netting a 3HKO on Defensive Zapdos and 2HKO on Bulky Tornadus-T. Rapid Spin serves as a way of boosting Speed and removing hazards without worrying about Taunt users, while Taunt itself allows you to deny Zapdos and Corviknight use of their recovery while preventing them from using Defog at the same time. Stealth Rock or Toxic are great for taking advantage of forced switches to either set hazards or put a timer on opposing CAP 31, Landorus-T and Zapdos. Pain Split in tandem with Taunt allows CAP 31 to deny the opposition the ability to set up or recover themselves while allowing you to constantly recover health yourself throughout the match.
 
Moveset Submission

Name: No More “No More Nuzzles”
Move 1: Earthquake
Move 2: Diamond Storm
Move 3: Taunt / Pain Split / Power Whip
Move 4: Nuzzle
Ability: Water Absorb
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Nature: Jolly

This set aims to utilize CAP31’s high attack stat in conjunction with Nuzzle to cripple and break holes in offensive teams. 216+ speed is the minimum needed to outspeed Nidoking, CM Fini, and Rillaboom. Anything above that to 252+ isn’t relevant, even when factoring in paralysis. The extra EVs are put into HP to maximize bulk. Nuzzle is chosen over Thunder Wave to minimize RNG given the nature of Diamond Storm, as well as to be able to do chip damage on Pokémon like Corviknight, if nothing else to have something to click against it. Taunt and Pain Split are listed to make sure CAP31 does not sacrifice its matchup into defensive Pokémon, but Power Whip can be run instead to hit Ground-types which block Nuzzle better than EQ can, most notably Colossoil and Equilibra. Leftovers are chosen for passive recovery. This set could probably run AV but it’s such a meme item that I didn’t bother listing it.

Note: If people feel Nuzzle shouldn’t be chosen over TWave then this set works just as well with TWave. I just like not having to worry about accuracy and dealing a bit of chip damage.
 
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Rabia

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Stealth Rock is being approved, basically just another version of Rapid Spin / Diamond Storm / Earthquake / recovery variants and works well thematically because Ground-types most of the time have access to it.

Nuzzle I'm not going to approve because we already have Thunder Wave and Nuzzle has a whopping Base Power of... 20. So it doesn't really end up functioning as a useful coverage option, which the post seemed to imply it could?

I'm also going to remove special Fire-type coverage from the list of approved moves. No one ever submitted any set that included one, so I think it's safe to remove this bloat now.

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That's going to be it for this section! I appreciate all of you that submitted sets, and I'm now tagging SHSP for any final words.
 

SHSP

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Stealth Rock is being approved, basically just another version of Rapid Spin / Diamond Storm / Earthquake / recovery variants and works well thematically because Ground-types most of the time have access to it.

Nuzzle I'm not going to approve because we already have Thunder Wave and Nuzzle has a whopping Base Power of... 20. So it doesn't really end up functioning as a useful coverage option, which the post seemed to imply it could?

I'm also going to remove special Fire-type coverage from the list of approved moves. No one ever submitted any set that included one, so I think it's safe to remove this bloat now.

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That's going to be it for this section! I appreciate all of you that submitted sets, and I'm now tagging SHSP for any final words.
Off work and super excited to A-Okay this! I love the wider spread of options we've allowed so far: especially in a 1.0, I think doing more is totally the way to go. Let's keep it moving!
 
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