Suspect Camomons Suspect #2: Spectrier (Information + Voter Identification Thread)

[in the hills]

Camomons Suspect #2: Spectrier ​

Suspect Reasoning:
Camomons is suspect testing Spectrier! Spectrier has been a rather controversial threat since its initial introduction into Camomons. Despite its rather linear selection of typings, Spectrier's checks are largely limited to bulky Dark-types. Due to this, Spectrier's ability to hinder Dark-types through Will-O-Wisp can sometimes force unconventional Ghost-resists onto teams. This is further augmented by carrying Substitute, effectively allowing Spectrier to utilize common Dark-types like Poison/Dark Tornadus-Therian as setup bait. Spectrier's incredible 130 Speed tier makes revenge killing it rather difficult for most Camomons teams - it is immune to Extreme Speed and is bulky enough to live a Grassy Glide from a burned Rillaboom or Sucker Punch from Lycanroc-Dusk. With Grim Neigh, losing any Pokemon to Spectrier can cause it to snowball, and allows Spectrier to force more difficult situations for the opposing team.

To highlight some of Spectrier's counterplay, Spectrier's most reliable checks are generally passive and similar in the role they perform, which makes it easy for Spectrier's teammates to capitalize on. Some examples of Spectrier's most reliable defensive checks are Poison / Dark types like Tornadus-Therian, Toxapex, and Clefable; these are able to pressure Spectrier but are prone to Will-O-Wisp sets. Normal / Fairy Blissey is the most reliable defensive check to Spectrier, though it is niche in other matchups. Fire / Ground AV Slowking is a solid check to Spectrier as it is immune to Will-O-Wisp and is able to tank hits from Spectrier reliably. Offensive options for beating Spectrier are much less common and reliable. Dark / Normal and Fairy / Normal Arcanine with Flash Fire is arguably the most reliable offensive check to Spectrier, while other options include using priority or faster options, both of which are few and far between.

The Camomons council believes that while Spectrier is very linear in its role and typings, it is still capable of pressuring its counterplay to the point that we felt this suspect was necessary.

Suspect Details:
During a Suspect, each player must climb the ladder until they've acquired the GXE necessary to participate in the voting. Primarily, everyone that participates needs to make an alt account following these guidelines:

• Every game must be played on the official Pokemon Showdown site and on a new account (creation date no earlier than today, April 25th) with "CSS [Nick]"--for example, I could create one called "CSS in the hills" to ladder with.
• To qualify for voting, your alt must play a minimum of 25 games, and you must have a minimum GXE of 75.
• Spectrier will be allowed on the ladder during the suspect.
• The suspect test will end on Sunday, May 9th (11:59 pm GMT-4).
• When posting proof of meeting requirements, feel free to use this thread as a means to civilly elucidate any topical opinions regarding whether or not Spectrier should be banned (Optional).
• It is mandatory to provide proof of ownership of the alt account as well. (Post a picture of your requirements with your Smogon name featured)
• A majority of 60% will be required to remove Spectrier from the metagame.

As usual, the actual voting will take place in the Blind Voting Forum, so posting anything other than proof of requirements and discussion isn't necessary. If you have any other questions, please reach out to me.

 

[The Number Man]

confirming as css tnm 7. I gotta say, this has been quite the experience... I haven't had issues with reqs in a while, for a meta I'm counciling no less lmao. But camo ladder is a weird place man, idk what else to say. big S/O to a loser for keeping the ladder alive and commiserating in pms/council chat

Anyway to get to the point. All these games luckily weren't for nothing, I got a good refresher on the camo metagame since I admittedly hadn't played much of it since world cup outside of a few tests here and there. My impression is that Spect is not anywhere near banworthy. In all my games, there were maybe 2 where it took over the game. It just generally wasn't a big factor in the games that I won, nor did I ever lose to it (and i used it for most of my run). I'd say the most impactful part of Spect is Wisp, as I did lose 2 games to missing Wisp on Zera and one to getting it crit by Zera (and not getting wisp off), wherein a burnt Zera meant nothing could keep Water/Poison Latias from winning.

Speaking of Latias, and more broadly Calm Mind + Recovery (refer to losr's post in the camo thread for more info) as well as Zera (and to a lesser extent Phero) - these are the actual things running the meta imo. So many games devolve into CM wars, which Latias fortunately wins a large percentage of the time and the Camomons mechanic really makes it hard for your team to answer all of the possible CMers long term. On the flip side, Zera+Phero in the meta create an interesting conundrum. Both like to run Close Combat, with Zera going Elec/Fight and Phero going Ice/Fight. What this means, in practice, is that it's (almost) impossible to adequately cover both of them in one slot, unless you run Water/Ghost Rhyperior or a Slowbro/Mew/Lugg that isn't weak to Fight/Ice/Elec. But the real Zera menace is the Bulk Up Steel/Flying set, which is really difficult to answer reliably (without wisp! - wisp seems like the best way to invalidate this set) since it's immune to Elec - the type that would otherwise be perfect for checking it. It resists most priority too, so its hard to revenge once it gets going.

This is not me saying anything I mentioned above needs a ban. I just think that Spectrier has a lesser hold on the meta than some other things, so I will most likely be voting DNB.

 

[DNNP]

Confirming as CSS Snip FNH

Reqs

Also, s/o to the dude on the ladder who yelled at me for 10 min because I changed the sets on one of the sample teams

 

[db]

s/o Chazm for being a good builder and anaconja for making the team i fought 13 times

 

[MinoGod54]

Confirming as CSS Crabe Savon Sac

 

[Vertigo]

Confirming as CSS Misty

I encountered a grand total of 2 Spectrier during this run, one of which was really annoying running a Life Orb Ghost/Normal Hyper Beam set, but to be honest I found Latias, Pheromosa or Zeraora way more threatening. Still undecided, will see the upcoming reactions.

 

[Byleth]

Confirming as CSS TwentyThree

revive the ladder

 

[a loser]

Oh dang I thought you said 75 games with 25% GXE. Took me a while to recover from that misstep!

JK but honestly, this laddering experience has shown me that Spectrier is not the issue with the metagame. I think Spectrier is a good mon with slightly more variety than one would initially think, but no matter how you spin it the horse will end up with a Ghost, Dark, or Normal typing if you want to really do something with it. I used Spectrier some on this run and was never really impressed by it. Bulkier sets have options like Wisp, Substitute, and Taunt, but this leaves you with the only attack being Hex, which is easily played around. I think sets like this have potential but need a lot of team support to really flourish. The sets that stood out as the most threatening were Life Orb Hyper Beam with Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse as secondary STAB because these are off to the races at turn one and can punch holes in your team if not prepared. More standard sets of Nasty Plot / Calm Mind with Dark / Ghost STABs are good, but not great.

Other than Spectrier, I noticed that (in no particular order) Latias, Latios, Clefable, Zeraora, Tornadus-T, Hydreigon, and Pheromosa are running the metagame. Each of these have several typings to choose from and roles they can play and this makes them very hard to prepare for. Two-thirds of these mons also have access to setup moves and recovery, which I touched on in the Camomons thread recently.

Also shoutout to the peeps above me who I helped get reqs while on the slump portion of this ladder run.

 

[anaconja]

hyper beam spectrier is stupid af and the fact that its useable makes me want to ban it

suspect zeraora/phero next!!!

 

[Palapapop]

 

[Animesh_]

Confirming as CSS ok

 

[Sectonia]

Spectrier's voting is live :)