C&C Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread

[autumn]

READ THIS BEFORE POSTING

If you're new to C&C, this is probably the best place to start asking questions, instead of posting clueless threads which will be locked, and it also prevents you being issued with a warning.

This thread's purpose is to give users a place to ask questions about C&C or ask for help with their analyses, and to give newer users a general idea of how things work. I'd like to encourage contributors and ladybug holders to answer queries as it is part of the 'job' description to encourage other users to contribute. We always appreciate help from users, even if they're less experienced than ourselves, and this thread aims to encourage helpful posting and promote more experienced users. Who knows, it may earn you a shiny new badge one day.

1) Please keep the unnecessary posting to a minimum, as this is a simple question thread. If you would like somebody to write your analyses, or if you'd like to take over an analysis that's inactive, by all means request it, but please take the conversation to VM or PM messaging afterwards. If you consistently spam this thread with unhelpful information, you may be issued with a warning.

2) Please quote the request you're replying to, as this saves confusion and makes it a lot easier to manage transactions and queries. If you're going to simply VM or PM a user, there is no need to post here. Posts such as 'replied to the above' are pretty pointless, and needlessly raise your post count.

3) Please read the following C&C guideline threads/announcements before posting, as there's a good chance you'll find an answer here:

• Spelling and Grammar Standards
• Welcome to C&C and how to write an analysis

4) This is NOT a thread to request GP checks or QC checks. Please contact GP / QC members if you'd like them to check your analysis, or request that your thread is added to the GP queue.

Thank you.

 

[looweezy]

Can writers stop using the world "cripple" in their analyses? That word is a slur for disabled people and I feel like we're excluding them from Smogon by throwing the word around so much. It should be easy to replace with words like "impair," or "shut down," or "restrict."

For instance, in the Toxapex analysis that just got posted, the segment that reads "While Toxic is generally preferred to cripple Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, and Rotom-W," could easily be changed to "While Toxic is generally preferred to weaken Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, and Rotom-W,"

 

[Stratos]

Not that I particularly have a dog in this race, but I'm not entirely on board with your suggestions. "Weaken" carries a connotation of a temporary affliction, like Intimidate weakens Kartana—I'd never say Intimidate cripples Kartana—which isn't true here. "Shut down" implies a hard counter, which isn't quite the case. "Restrict" implies a significant reduction of options or presence which also isn't really true here. "Impair" works, being the new euphemism treadmill word for cripple, but it's such a boring and academic word that it makes me sleepy just imagining it being used in that sentence, and I'm much more of an advocate for visceral prose. I'd sooner advocate that we should use the word "kneecap", as in "Toxic is generally preferred to kneecap Pokemon like Mandibuzz."

Though I'm not sure how valuable engaging in the euphemism treadmill is in the first place. Cripple is still a perfectly functional verb and we're not using it as a derogatory noun to describe handicapped people; you might as well argue that the sentence "After a Swords Dance, Drilbur hits 38 Attack and 32 Speed, which dwarfs any other physical sweeper in the metagame" is offensive to little people.

 

[looweezy]

Not that I particularly have a dog in this race, but I'm not entirely on board with your suggestions. "Weaken" carries a connotation of a temporary affliction, like Intimidate weakens Kartana—I'd never say Intimidate cripples Kartana—which isn't true here. "Shut down" implies a hard counter, which isn't quite the case. "Restrict" implies a significant reduction of options or presence which also isn't really true here. "Impair" works, being the new euphemism treadmill word for cripple, but it's such a boring and academic word that it makes me sleepy just imagining it being used in that sentence, and I'm much more of an advocate for visceral prose. I'd sooner advocate that we should use the word "kneecap", as in "Toxic is generally preferred to kneecap Pokemon like Mandibuzz."

Though I'm not sure how valuable engaging in the euphemism treadmill is in the first place. Cripple is still a perfectly functional verb and we're not using it as a derogatory noun to describe handicapped people; you might as well argue that the sentence "After a Swords Dance, Drilbur hits 38 Attack and 32 Speed, which dwarfs any other physical sweeper in the metagame" is offensive to little people.

To your first point, I guess I agree that "impair" isn't very visceral, and that some of my other suggested alternatives might have the wrong connotations. But your suggestion of "kneecap" works great! There are lots of body-horror verbs that would fit better than "cripple" ("hamstring," "gut," "defang," etc). Each of these options has more viscera than "cripple" imo.

To your second point, I'm not sure why someone wouldn't value what you call the "euphemism treadmill." Every time I see the word "cripple" in a smogon writeup it gives me pause and leaves me somewhat disappointed. Why should that happen so often when our writers and editors could easily replace that word another? What is the value in protecting words that are hurtful to certain people? I guess you could make some slippery slope argument that we're going to lose a lot of words if we do this, but is that such a big deal, and is it really worse than the status quo?

Anyway, thanks for the response!

 

[Stoward]

Can writers stop using the world "cripple" in their analyses? That word is a slur for disabled people and I feel like we're excluding them from Smogon by throwing the word around so much. It should be easy to replace with words like "impair," or "shut down," or "restrict."

For instance, in the Toxapex analysis that just got posted, the segment that reads "While Toxic is generally preferred to cripple Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, and Rotom-W," could easily be changed to "While Toxic is generally preferred to weaken Pokemon like Mandibuzz, Dragapult, and Rotom-W,"

Fuck I hope this post is trolling cos you got me good. Yes, referring to someone who is physically disabled as a “cripple” is politically incorrect, however this does not apply when referring to inanimate objects or animals. The word cripple can be used freely as a verb, especially metaphorically, as in “Failing to upgrade the computer system will cripple our business.”

If you’re offended by the word cripple being used in Smogon analyses, you’re giving the word too much power. No writer who has ever used the word cripple has used it with the intent of harming someone who is physically disabled. Considering that this word is also commonly used in media (i.e crippling debt), I don’t see the need for Smogon to put the word on a pedestal and say that we won’t use it.

 

[MikuChan]

I am physically crippled myself (need a cane or a mobiscooter to move around and get to college) and I can absolutely say that it can be used with intention of offense. but that is so extremely rare its a nonfactor.

You are actually trolling if you think cripple shouldnt be allowed in analysis.

 

[sumwun]

Is this the newest and most up-to-date Generation 4 EV guide?

Why is the battling crash course thing going to be an article, not a locked forum thread like the ones in the information and resources subforum? Wouldn't that be easier to update?

 

[Havens]

I know it hasn't been super relevant atm, but has GP decided on an official name for the hazards that G-Max Copperajah creates? I know that the in-game description resembles that of "sharp-pointed pieces of steel", but since the effects of the hazards are equivalent to that of a "Steel-type Stealth Rock", I'd like to know what exactly the term is so it'll be clearer and closer to universally acceptable.

edit: nvm I didn't see the new grammar standards update; my bad

 

[Lumari]

I know it hasn't been super relevant atm, but has GP decided on an official name for the hazards that G-Max Copperajah creates? I know that the in-game description resembles that of "sharp-pointed pieces of steel", but since the effects of the hazards are equivalent to that of a "Steel-type Stealth Rock", I'd like to know what exactly the term is so it'll be clearer and closer to universally acceptable.

One of us suggested "Steelsurge Spikes", which I personally like for a bunch of reasons, but so far we don't have anything official, lack of a proper move name + lack of relevancy forcing communities to try and come up with something is not very helpful.

I posted about it in the standards thread some time ago, if vernacular has tried to coin something that you (or anyone) are aware of then feel free to post.

 

[JuanchoTacorta]

Where can I see users's ID to add them on credit's analysis?

 

[sumwun]

Where can I see users's ID to add them on credit's analysis?

One way (likely not the best way) is going to the user profile page and looking at the URL.

 

[Rotten]

Are we gonna get tiers like PU or RU anytime soon?
Or is this just another gen 1...

 

[sumwun]

Why do some analyses, like Gengar and Roserade, recommend leftovers when I'm pretty sure black sludge outclasses leftovers?

 

[Plague von Karma]

Are we gonna get tiers like PU or RU anytime soon?
Or is this just another gen 1...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1200851991863279616

 

[Lumari]

Why do some analyses, like Gengar and Roserade, recommend leftovers when I'm pretty sure black sludge outclasses leftovers?

This is before my time so it may not be entirely accurate / I know it only through word of mouth; but afaik, many years ago, when those analyses were written, this distinction was not deemed worth it, because "if opposing Pokemon obtain Black Sludge via Trick, they can just Trick it back to something else on your team", so they went for consistency instead. Clearly the standard has been updated since, but not all old analyses may reflect this.

 

[Oglemi]

This is before my time so it may not be entirely accurate / I know it only through word of mouth; but afaik, many years ago, when those analyses were written, this distinction was not deemed worth it, because "if opposing Pokemon obtain Black Sludge via Trick, they can just Trick it back to something else on your team", so they went for consistency instead. Clearly the standard has been updated since, but not all old analyses may reflect this.

This is correct. Eo made the argument in favor of black sludge in late dpp, and ya it wasn't deemed super important to update at the time, just a going forward kind of thing.

Edit: jk it was BW, time is a fkn blur man https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/black-sludge.3470127/

 

[GhostyTrickster]

Hello everyone!

I've stalked Smogon for years now but this is the first time I've hopped into the forums. I've read pinned information and gave a brief overview. Are RU and NU discussion threads simply no present at the moment for Gen 8? I don't want to make a new thread that breaks the rules. I want to try contributing calculations and sets.

Thanks!

Edit: Disregard! It was just my display settings. Now I feel silly.

 

[iLiekMudkipz_]

Shouldnt there be a UU analyses section by now?

 

[Lumari]

Shouldnt there be a UU analyses section by now?

They only exited beta this month and it would've been silly to start analyses so shortly before Home was about to uproot the meta, their section will be live soonish.

 

[Bpu Champ N]

I personally would have tried to analyze for best strats in all available formats by now XP

 

[Stratos]

When and why did we decide to do away with gendered pronouns in analyses? I am pretty sure it used to be allowed. Gendered pronouns have two major advantages for readability:

1) Gendered pronouns use different words for subject and object. This can really help make long paragraphs easy to follow.
2) Gendered pronouns are not used in other common constructions. Consider the sentence: "It can be hard to switch Sylveon in for free." With gendered pronouns this becomes: "It can be hard to switch him in for free." With genderless you get: "It can be hard to switch it in for free." Obviously the first one is more readable because the word "it" does not refer to multiple things in the sentence.

Here's a longer example taken from a basically randomly chosen analysis paragraph (where I replace every use of "Clefable" past the first with a pronoun):

original for reference

Clefable can function as a great defensive pivot that can check Pokemon like Kyurem, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. With Teleport, Clefable can easily grab momentum by pivoting out of unfavorable matchups against Pokemon like Aegislash and Rotom-H and bring in wallbreakers. Wish synergizes incredibly well with Teleport, giving Clefable the ability to sustain its teammates. Protect allows Clefable to scout Choice-locked Pokemon like Aegislash but, most importantly, makes Wish a reliable recovery move. It's also preferred to Moonlight as sole recovery because of its PP. Magic Guard is used over Unaware because it grants Clefable an immunity to passive damage altogether, making it very hard to wear down. In order to reliably check Pokemon like Kyurem and Dragapult, Clefable has to run a Calm nature with heavy Special Defense investment. Alternatively, a Bold nature can be run with maximum Defense investment to deal with Pokemon like Zeraora, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr.

Clefable can function as a great defensive pivot that can check Pokemon like Kyurem, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. With Teleport, he can easily grab momentum by pivoting out of unfavorable matchups against Pokemon like Aegislash and Rotom-H and bring in wallbreakers. Wish synergizes incredibly well with Teleport, giving him the ability to sustain his teammates. Protect allows him to scout Choice-locked Pokemon like Aegislash but, most importantly, makes Wish a reliable recovery move. It's also preferred to Moonlight as sole recovery because of its PP. Magic Guard is used over Unaware because it grants him an immunity to passive damage altogether, making him very hard to wear down. In order to reliably check Pokemon like Kyurem and Dragapult, he has to run a Calm nature with heavy Special Defense investment. Alternatively, a Bold nature can be run with maximum Defense investment to deal with Pokemon like Zeraora, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr.

Clefable can function as a great defensive pivot that can check Pokemon like Kyurem, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. With Teleport, it can easily grab momentum by pivoting out of unfavorable matchups against Pokemon like Aegislash and Rotom-H and bring in wallbreakers. Wish synergizes incredibly well with Teleport, giving it the ability to sustain its teammates. Protect allows it to scout Choice-locked Pokemon like Aegislash but, most importantly, makes Wish a reliable recovery move. It's also preferred to Moonlight as sole recovery because of its PP. Magic Guard is used over Unaware because it grants it an immunity to passive damage altogether, making it very hard to wear down. In order to reliably check Pokemon like Kyurem and Dragapult, it has to run a Calm nature with heavy Special Defense investment. Alternatively, a Bold nature can be run with maximum Defense investment to deal with Pokemon like Zeraora, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr.

I replaced Clefable five times in this sample, and the first one is just as readable as before, while the second one gets confusing in places. You can reword your sentences to avoid confusing situations, but why should you have to? As far as I can tell, there's no advantage to avoiding gendered pronouns. Am I missing something?

 

[Stoward]

When and why did we decide to do away with gendered pronouns in analyses? I am pretty sure it used to be allowed. Gendered pronouns have two major advantages for readability:

1) Gendered pronouns use different words for subject and object. This can really help make long paragraphs easy to follow.
2) Gendered pronouns are not used in other common constructions. Consider the sentence: "It can be hard to switch Sylveon in for free." With gendered pronouns this becomes: "It can be hard to switch him in for free." With genderless you get: "It can be hard to switch it in for free." Obviously the first one is more readable because the word "it" does not refer to multiple things in the sentence.

Here's a longer example taken from a basically randomly chosen analysis paragraph (where I replace every use of "Clefable" past the first with a pronoun):

original for reference

Clefable can function as a great defensive pivot that can check Pokemon like Kyurem, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. With Teleport, Clefable can easily grab momentum by pivoting out of unfavorable matchups against Pokemon like Aegislash and Rotom-H and bring in wallbreakers. Wish synergizes incredibly well with Teleport, giving Clefable the ability to sustain its teammates. Protect allows Clefable to scout Choice-locked Pokemon like Aegislash but, most importantly, makes Wish a reliable recovery move. It's also preferred to Moonlight as sole recovery because of its PP. Magic Guard is used over Unaware because it grants Clefable an immunity to passive damage altogether, making it very hard to wear down. In order to reliably check Pokemon like Kyurem and Dragapult, Clefable has to run a Calm nature with heavy Special Defense investment. Alternatively, a Bold nature can be run with maximum Defense investment to deal with Pokemon like Zeraora, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr.

I replaced Clefable five times in this sample, and the first one is just as readable as before, while the second one gets confusing in places. You can reword your sentences to avoid confusing situations, but why should you have to? As far as I can tell, there's no advantage to avoiding gendered pronouns. Am I missing something?

You could simply just use “they”? I mean sure I guess with stuff like Salazzle where they’re all female you can use “she” but I really don’t see the need to put genders on Pokémon. Like I don’t think we’re at the point where we’re trying to not avoid offending the Pokémon by assuming their gender, but I think in general there’s little to gain by forcing genders on Pokémon.

 

[Bughouse]

When and why did we decide to do away with gendered pronouns in analyses? I am pretty sure it used to be allowed. Gendered pronouns have two major advantages for readability:

1) Gendered pronouns use different words for subject and object. This can really help make long paragraphs easy to follow.
2) Gendered pronouns are not used in other common constructions. Consider the sentence: "It can be hard to switch Sylveon in for free." With gendered pronouns this becomes: "It can be hard to switch him in for free." With genderless you get: "It can be hard to switch it in for free." Obviously the first one is more readable because the word "it" does not refer to multiple things in the sentence.

Here's a longer example taken from a basically randomly chosen analysis paragraph (where I replace every use of "Clefable" past the first with a pronoun):

original for reference

Clefable can function as a great defensive pivot that can check Pokemon like Kyurem, Dragapult, and Hydreigon. With Teleport, Clefable can easily grab momentum by pivoting out of unfavorable matchups against Pokemon like Aegislash and Rotom-H and bring in wallbreakers. Wish synergizes incredibly well with Teleport, giving Clefable the ability to sustain its teammates. Protect allows Clefable to scout Choice-locked Pokemon like Aegislash but, most importantly, makes Wish a reliable recovery move. It's also preferred to Moonlight as sole recovery because of its PP. Magic Guard is used over Unaware because it grants Clefable an immunity to passive damage altogether, making it very hard to wear down. In order to reliably check Pokemon like Kyurem and Dragapult, Clefable has to run a Calm nature with heavy Special Defense investment. Alternatively, a Bold nature can be run with maximum Defense investment to deal with Pokemon like Zeraora, Terrakion, and Conkeldurr.

I replaced Clefable five times in this sample, and the first one is just as readable as before, while the second one gets confusing in places. You can reword your sentences to avoid confusing situations, but why should you have to? As far as I can tell, there's no advantage to avoiding gendered pronouns. Am I missing something?

• You may not use the pronouns "who", "he", and "she" instead of "which", "that", and "it" to refer to Pokemon; stick with genderless pronouns.
• When referring to the battler, use the pronoun "you." Do not use "you" to refer to a Pokemon

Pokemon are treated as things more generally (see: which, not who), and English does not have gendered things.

 

[Stratos]

You could simply just use “they”? I mean sure I guess with stuff like Salazzle where they’re all female you can use “she” but I really don’t see the need to put genders on Pokémon.

I'm not generally opposed to the singular "they" but it has problem #1 same as "it" and can make long passages confusing, in addition to the irregular usage of "are" that it mandates which can cause double-takes.

Like I don’t think we’re at the point where we’re trying to not avoid offending the Pokémon by assuming their gender, but I think in general there’s little to gain by forcing genders on Pokémon.

I just explained what we stand to gain...

• You may not use the pronouns "who", "he", and "she" instead of "which", "that", and "it" to refer to Pokemon; stick with genderless pronouns.
• When referring to the battler, use the pronoun "you." Do not use "you" to refer to a Pokemon

Pokemon are treated as things more generally (see: which, not who), and English does not have gendered things.

I am not asking what the standard is. Referring to pokemon with genders is really not that rare—see smogtours Him meme but even besides, e.g.:

[4:30 PM] Memo: why wiki
[4:30 PM] talkingtree: Scizor
[4:30 PM] GenOne: Scizor
[4:31 PM] Memo: oh him

[7:21 PM] Amaranth: they made me call chansey an 'it' instead of a 'she' in the rby analysis
[7:23 PM] Amaranth: i mean i also had no issues with it but i am incredibly used to calling her she
[7:23 PM] Amaranth: i had to make a colossal effort to call her it

I mean, for my money, Pokemon are animals, and we refer to animals using both gendered and non-gendered pronouns regularly enough.
I'm not against using 'it' but I'm almost positive that you used to be allowed to use either. I wrote analyses in the past using "he/him" for the reasons I stated above and I wish I still had that option.

 

[Hematite]

For my own two cents: while it's not incorrect nothing really is in language - there are only "ways people speak" and "ways people don't speak," and this is certainly a way people speak, I think it looks incredibly unprofessional to use gendered pronouns in this context.
You're not referring to a specific entity in the Smogon analyses. The reason the articles don't use gendered pronouns right now is not because Pokémon don't have genders as individuals, but because there is no specific individual that's being gendered. You're talking about any Clefable, not your Clefable; it's meant to be impersonal, and defining something like its gender and treating it as a specific entity makes it personal. While different groups obviously speak differently, my own experience has generally led me to feel that using gendered pronouns in a situation like this creates a distinctly informal and casual tone, almost as though you're addressing a child, which... just feels out of place compared to the style of the rest of the articles.
Honestly, it's kind of difficult not to notice when writing uses gendered pronouns that way, so some articles writing like that and others using "it" would create a pretty glaring degree of internal inconsistency within the site, which is one of the biggest issues the C&C checks aim to correct. Even aside from being "better" or "worse," I think being different from every other article would make it distracting and awkward.

My personal opinion on the word choice aside, you also really shouldn't be applying real-world standards about animals to Pokémon. Believe it or not, there's actually a style guide from TPCi that tells writers what not to do when writing for official Pokémon-related media, and using gendered pronouns even for individuals is considered off-limits for Pokémon. Obviously, no one here is employed by TPCi or obligated to uphold their standards (and I certainly wouldn't take issue with someone referring to a Pokémon as "he" or "she" in a more casual context), but this should at least be enough to show that referring to a generic Pokémon that way is distinctly unlike official material and out of place compared to the rest of the series, which I think undermines the professional-looking stylistic standards that Smogon's articles strive to uphold in every other respect.

I really don't support this, personally.