OU BW OU Hub

[Gamer1234556]

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Level: 100
Bold Nature
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
- Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
- Sunny Day

Speaking of Thundurus-T, I realized that for weatherless balance teams, this can really patch up the Rain weakness as it goes a long way to prevent Keldeo and Thundurus-T from completely tearing them to shreds. It can also work well for stall teams if you're insane.

Also fun fact, Amoonguss' usage in the BW PL eclipses Garchomp, Jellicent, Magnezone, Jirachi, Dragonite and Celebi. Just let that sink in for a bit.


Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Level: 100
Adamant Nature
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
- Focus Punch

As mentioned on my Abomasnow post in the BW OU Good Cores, Abomasnow has been getting more attention in the high level field and saw about 5 uses in the BW PL, which eclipses the usage of every pokemon currently in the B+ tier in the BW OU Viability Rankings.

Anyways, one of Abomansnow's issues that I took notice of was how it often kind of lacks consistent coverage for steels. It had to choose between running HP Fire for Skarmory and Ferrothorn or Earthquake for Heatran. Dark Eevenon, however, proved that you can take two birds with one stone by running Focus Punch instead in his BW PL replay on Week 1. It's also great in general for predicting switches, especially if Tyranitar is cheeky enough to switch into you think that you would be spamming Blizzard or Ice Shard and shuts down any attempts for Skarmory to Roost off damage.

Also, fun fact, Abomasnow can actually OHKO Yache Berry Garchomp at full health using Blizzard with enough investment. Just throwing that out there.

252 SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 356-420 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
172+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Yache Berry Garchomp: 362-428 (101.4 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

not a huge fan of amoong in general but I think you'd definitely want hp ice to at least pretend to check thundyt instead of being sub fodder

I think it depends on the team. Another one of my complaints with Amoonguss is that it's forced to choose between HP Fire to hit Ferrothorn and Scizor or HP Ice to hit Offensive Grounds and Thundy-T. I would assume that if you have a backup plan against Thundy-T and your team doesn't have any reliable measures against Ferrothorn then you could go with HP Fire, otherwise HP Ice is superior in every way (especially with how weak HP Fire is against Ferro under Rain lmao).

 

[Gamer1234556]

Also, is it me or has Terrakion suddenly got a lot better with the Gem ban? I know that Terrakion has kind of taken a bit of a decline in popularity in the past few tournaments but its usage in the recent BW PL has been its highest yet in the current meta.

 

[marsandback]

I wouldnt base quality off the bwpl. Many games people used half-serious teams. Another thing to consider is that some people used identical teams to one another, which influences usage stats without a mon being necessarily 'versatile' or 'good'. That being said terrakion is very viable with scarf and choice band sets.

 

[Monai]

Since I'm out of ribbon tour I thought I'd show off a different spread for Zam that I brought:
Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 88 Def / 168 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

It's very easy to slap sash on as an all purpose revenge killer, but LO lets you really fuck up some balance builds. You get some significantly better rolls on mons like Lati, Glisc, Exca, and Toed which can really open some games up or help you sequence for end games.

Defense gives you some pretty important rolls like:

88+ Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Alakazam: 210-248 (83.6 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Alakazam: 226-266 (90 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
(not all are ada lo either)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Alakazam: 196-232 (78 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Damage difference even with 80 less evs is still very noticeable. For example, 252/252+ Ferro will always die to Focus with max hazards after trading knocks with your own ferro, and you can get over 10% more damage on Politoed, depending on spread.

Obviously I'm aware that, even when you add a revenge killer to replace zam's role, a lack of sash can really hamper you in some scenarios. Zam will just drop to many Scarfers that it could otherwise stay in on and OHKO, and getting OHKO'd by a Latios is very embarrassing. But all that aside, I think there's a lot of room to experiment with Zam builds that allow it to be the premiere wallbreaker of a team.

 

[zf]

I think we Should ban Latios, and maybe un Ban ChloroSaur (chlorophyll Vensaur on drought teams xD)

(Just to see what will happen)

 

[gabraltar]

I think we Should ban Latios, and maybe un Ban ChloroSaur (chlorophyll Vensaur on drought teams xD)

(Just to see what will happen)

you gotta be out of your mind if you wanna add more power to an unplayable meta

 

[Gamer1234556]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

 

[tdog124]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

no. zam and amoongus of all things is not sufficient

 

[Gamer1234556]

no. zam and amoongus of all things is not sufficient

Wdym? Amoonguss is pretty much your pivot against water attacks like Scald/Keld/Thundy-T (granted, it doesn't enjoy burns but lets be honest, it's kind of hard to find a good Scald absorber that can also handle Keldeo and Thundurus-T consistently besides Celebi) and it's not like anything on Rain really likes taking in Paralysis from Stun Spore. Alakazam naturally has a decent MU against Rain thanks to it's speed (it does need to watch out for Scarf Latios but that mon is fairly easy to play around).

 

[Monai]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role I compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

Even if you can play around the difficult volc/tran/rotom matchups Tdog is right that this has a very difficult time into Rain. Amoonguss getting scald burned basically kills it and specs Keldeo can already almost 2hko spdef amoong with rain and rocks so idk what youre supposed to do with physdef. Ferro is almost uncontested here so ur forced to concede layers or hope that full para/pwhip miss happens. Scarf lati is hardly a rain teams only check to zam either.

 

[Gamer1234556]

Even if you can play around the difficult volc/tran/rotom matchups Tdog is right that this has a very difficult time into Rain. Amoonguss getting scald burned basically kills it and specs Keldeo can already almost 2hko spdef amoong with rain and rocks so idk what youre supposed to do with physdef. Ferro is almost uncontested here so ur forced to concede layers or hope that full para/pwhip miss happens. Scarf lati is hardly a rain teams only check to zam either.

Ok, but if we follow that logic, wouldn't Latios + Alakazam technically be insufficient against Rain as well? Latios is an even worse switch-in for Specs Keldeo and doesn't enjoy taking burns + hazard chip if it's not running Recover.

 

[Monai]

Yes, that's why you don't run latios zam as your only rain checks

 

[tdog124]

Ok, but if we follow that logic, wouldn't Latios + Alakazam technically be insufficient against Rain as well? Latios is an even worse switch-in for Specs Keldeo and doesn't enjoy taking burns + hazard chip if it's not running Recover.

Thats why you run shit like ferro/r-wash/gastro/seis on sand along with them this isnt that complicated

 

[IUPLC]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

This is straight-up 6-0'd by Modest Insect Plate Volc LOL


Most Zam + Latios teams have other means of checking Rain, such as a water immune or Reuniclus. This team lacks a Scald switch-in (Amoonguss doesn't count when everything else dies to Keldeo and Thundurus in Rain except for the Pokemon on your team that never switches in directly) and has one water resist that doesn't have any Sp.Def EVs.

Bronzong has helpful traits in general since it's an airborne steel that with better Sp.Def and a resistance to Ice that Skarm lacks, but pairing a mon that's so blatantly Volc/Rain abuser food with 5 Pokemon that also hate Volc/Keld/Thundurus is not it.

 

[bruno]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

great team but make the amongus specially defensive variant over the physically defensive variant

 

[tdog124]

great team but make the amongus specially defensive variant over the physically defensive variant

you still lose to rain, amoong doesnt fulfill it's supposed role either way

 

[awyp]

Bronzong Sand


Bronzong was a pokemon that ultimately fell into obscurity after 2018. Between its middling stats and propensity of being set-up fodder, it was a mon that was ultimately passed over for a long time. The rise of HO teams in 2020-22 tours didn't help matters much for it either. However, with the gem ban, HO teams have taken a significant hit and Bulky Sand teams are now back in style. With this, Bronzong was revealed to have some rather interesting traits. With its typing and ability, it pretty much walls Psychic-types and Ground-types in one, making for some nifty role compression.

Another thing I found interesting is how effective Bronzong is at relaxing constraints on the team builder. Skamory can now afford to run more Physical Defense EVs to take on Dragonite, Garchomp and Breloom while Tyranitar can run more niche sets like Choice Band or Dragon Dance since the only thing that Latios has to threaten Bronzong is Trick. Keep in mind that the core of Tar-Skarm-Drill-Zong seems extremely weak to Rain teams, however, Amoonguss and Alakazam provide a decent enough safety net for that matchup.

Cool team, I think due to the prevalence of rain teams in Gen 5 OU I recommend going to Gastrodon > Amoonguss also I think Kazam should have Sash since it is fragile. Lastly overall I would go away from Kazam (but I understand if you wanted to keep it) and go with Latios.

 

[peng]

Sitrus Berry Appreciation Post

Sitrus berry appreciators:
peng


Sitrus is a cool single use item that has picked up a bit of usage in the last year or two and seems to be getting even more now. It generally fits on mons that would otherwise run Leftovers, but it lets you one time avoid a 2HKO from something, or work around multi-hit moves, by getting effectively 125% HP to work with (25% restored when you fall below half). As with a lot of these "novelty" or "tech" item choices, this works extra well on mons that are Sand immune or get Knocked Off often, given these guys don't end up keeping their Leftovers consistently anyway.

There are some really interesting/fun applications of it as below:
Sitrus Jellicent on Skarmory HO - see the Jimmy Turtwig vs watashi game from SPL 2021, Sitrus here gives you a better chance to spinblock some Excadrill and Starmie, and also helps a lot vs Cloyster.

Sitrus Jirachi on Dragon-y type HO - see Finch game from SPL 2022, Sitrus Jirachi is a bit sturdier into Psychics / Meteors and as its a u-turner, its generally not staying in long enough to pick up lots of Leftovers turns.

Sitrus Ferrothorn - another Finch one. Ferrothorn is getting Knocked t1 in any Ferrothorn mirror anyway so the opportunity cost for running weird items is super low. Sitrus gives you that Leftovers recovery all in one go, and on Ferrothorn lets you bluff other Berry items (Lum/Rawst/Chople) whilst also significantly changing the rolls of EQs from Lando Chomp Drill etc. As with Jellicent, also nice for Cloyster

Sitrus Reuniclus - Probably the least tested out of these, but one I think ABR used earlier in the year and having played 30 or so games with it, I think it should see more usage. It gives you a playable cloy MU on those Reun Spike teams, but also messes with Tyranitar Crunch rolls, lets Reun act more like a pivot into things like CB Terrakion, some Chomp, so on without being stuck at 40% and useless. Also does some things like avoids 2hko from keldeo hydro so makes Reuniclus a lot more flexible in mid-game particularly vs choiced stuff

Appreciate Sitrus Berry

 

[IUPLC]

Latios @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Recover
- Thunder

I've been fiddling with this set on this team in particular.

If I recall correctly, Lum Latios is something I first saw used by peng. The rationale behind it that immediately comes to mind is that one of the biggest issues with Latios's ability to check Thundurus in Rain is that it's always risking that 30% chance of getting paralyzed. Even a 1-use remedy to that can go a long way, especially considering that it might come in on HP Ice or even Focus Blast instead. Having Lum + Recover lets Latios be a more robust Thundurus check, which is often instrumental, especially on Sand structures somewhat weak to the genie.

Lum Berry can also let Latios switch to a Scalding Politoed or Tentacruel while at the very least delaying the possibility of getting burned. This wouldn't be helpful on a team with Reuniclus or another Scald absorber, but the team I posted very much appreciates such a thing and is often at a loss on what to do against the Rain staples otherwise.

On the topic of bulky waters, that's where Thunder comes in. Because this team has Magnezone support and doesn't have many Pokemon that share non-Steel Latios checks such as Tyranitar (see: other Psychic types), the 4th move on Latios is not immediately obvious. I've seen Calm Mind, HP Fire, and Thunder Wave as options for "non-choice Latios 4th," but none of those would help a fast team that hates bulky waters.

Because almost all of the time I want to be clicking the electric coverage will be in rain (bar the occasional Jellicent/SlowTwin on Sand) and I need all the power I can get since I lack a power item, Thunder is the significantly better choice. The nice thing is that it's a move to click on non-Gastro bulky waters without forcing the drop from Draco Meteor. Politoed and Tentacruel are absolutely mauled by Thunder, and Toxic is the only thing they can even attempt to scare Latios with. Furthermore, Keldeo is 1-2 rocks switch-ins away from instantly dying to Thunder, eliminating the need to use Draco on it a lot of the time. Generally, most Rain teams will lack a way to outright punish Latios (unless they're packing Scarf Scizor) and if Ferrothorn's removed, they're hard-pressed to switch into Dragon/Water/Electric coverage. Even if Latios doesn't have inherent synergy with physical breakers like Terrakion or Cloyster, its ability to open holes in most Rain teams while being a defensive presence in its own right is much appreciated.

I'm not going to claim that the team I initially fit this set on is inherently sound, but I do think this set has a home on "physical offense with Mag support" (semi-DragMag or otherwise) type of teams like this one. My team as it is really hates Keldeo + Pursuit and gets practically 6-0'd by Life Orb Volcarona with Giga Drain or HP Ground as its 4th, but the former isn't unplayable and the latter is very specific and rare.

 

[IUPLC]

Terrakion Appreciation(?) Post

​

Terrakion definitely had a reputation for being overhyped about a year ago. Still, it's arguable that in the wake of peng (jokingly) saying things like "I'd use Eelektross before Terrak" the community perception of it is a bit overcorrected. Terrakion is nowhere close to a splashable staple like Latios, Landorus-T, or Keldeo or a quintessentially broken threat like Thundurus-T, Reuniclus, or Cloyster, but it certainly has several traits that make it competent but not dominant. It's the epitome of a "High highs, low lows" type of mon. Of course, its low lows mean that there are a finite number of teams with it, i.e., one has to actively incorporate Terrak into a team.

Terrakion's Highs?

• 108 is a very relevant speed tier​
  • Terrakion is pretty much the only physical breaker that outspeeds Garchomp​
    • Along with Keldeo, it's the only natural Garchomp outspeed that doesn't care about Pursuit at all (Latios/Starmie/Zam are weak, Torn is naturally frail)​
  • It forces a tie with Keldeo, meaning while it can't claim to check Keldeo, the same is true about opposing Keldeo vs Terrakion, which means it would force in a Latios instead.​
    • However, in the ditto, Terrakion loses the interaction either way unless it's Banded or +2 because it cannot OHKO Keldeo otherwise​
  • It's an additional Pokemon to outrun irritating medium-speed Pokemon like Excadrill or Thundurus-T​
  • Like Keldeo, it's a naturally fast Pokemon that doesn't mind Mamoswine (something not true for things like Garchomp, Latios, Tornadus, and Alakazam​
• It's offensively potent with its high-powered dual STABs and high attack
  • Close Combat is pretty spammable as the most (and only) common immune to it is Jellicent, and even some resists like Latios are 2HKO'd by CB Rak (or w/ Sand and Rocks by any Rak)
    • Furthemore, it coasts on the fact that Landorus-T often forgoes bulk for Speed to outrun Excadrill, meaning Lando is not as sturdy of a check over the course of a game as one might think, especially if it lacks Lefties
    • Terrak is excellent against a lot of Steel types (bar Scizor) because of this and CB can even destroy reasonably bulky Fighting-neutral foes like Garchomp and Keldeo
  • Stone Edge (while used sparingly because of its imperfect accuracy) destroys a lot of fight resists that need to go down ASAP like Dragonite or Thundurus-T
  • Most set-up Pokemon are hard-pressed to set up on Terrak without setting up as it switches out (which is not risk-free)
  • Terrak doesn't have direct defensive value, but it often forces opponents into specific lines of play that involves forfeiting positioning pieces like hazards to minimize Terrakion's offensive presence
    • Example: Ferrothorn has to think twice about Spiking to assure Terrak doesn't come in to claim a kill, but if it attacks into non-Terrakion, then it wasted a Spike opportunity
  • Rain teams almost never have a true switch-in to Terrak, meaning a lot of the time if it gets in on Ferro or Thund it's getting a kill
• It has solid natural bulk for taking neutral hits and this gets bolstered in Sand on the special side
  • While it might open the team up to the moth's partners, Terrak is one of Sand's best ways of checking Volc
    • With Psychic Gem banned, no Volcarona can OHKO a healthy Terrak in Sand
  • In Sand, a lot of special attackers lacking Psyshock (even faster ones like Latios) are pretty hard-pressed to remove a healthy Terrak without Sp.Def drops from CC

Terrak's Lows?

• Its typing gives it irritating weaknesses
  • Terrak opens the team up to Alakazam, Reuniclus, Breloom, Scizor, Landorus-T, and Gliscor in particular
    • It's more than possible to build around this, but it's something to factor in nonetheless
  • It's difficult to switch Terrak directly in, meaning it really really likes pivots like Celebi, Rotom-W, Landorus-T, or Choice variants of Scizor or Magnezone
  • As a grounded physical attacker, Terrak hates both Scald and Spikes with a passion
    • A hatred of Scald is nothing unique and always needs to be accounted for in the builder, and luckily, it resists Stealth Rock and generally benefits from being airborne via an Air Balloon, so those variants can often come in and out with relative impunity
• Stone Edge is a terrible move
  • Terrak can theroetically break through mons like Tenta at +2, but it's a miss away from just dying instead
    • It's more than possible to play/build around Terrak in a way that minimizes the necessity of using Stone Edge, though

Those lows are not trivial, but there exist options to minimize them. The main antidote is pairing Terrakion with partners that can handle the things it exasperates the team's weakness to. This can either mean a defensive backbone like Skarmory or Celebi to answer Alakazam/Scizor/Grounds or Breloom/Scald, respectively, or offensive synergies like Excadrill, Garchomp, or Cloyster to overwhelm/punish things like Reuniclus, Lando-T, and Gliscor. Demanding such specific partners does mean Terrak is inherently hard to fit onto a team, and no one tries to argue otherwise.

Terrak's Main Sets

The two main Terrak sets (besides fast Taunt + SR lead for HO teams) are CB and SD. The former is great for immediate power (such as having a chance at OHKOing a full health Garchomp) but needs a plan for inviting in the telegraphed answers to a certain move being clicked (e.g., Jellicent when locked into CC).

SD Terrak has several possible configurations. The main item choices are Balloon, Chople, and Payapa while the 4th move (first three being STABs and SD) can be Sub, Protect, or Quick Attack.

Balloon Sub probably grants the most flexibility since it lets Terrak ignore Spikes until it's popped and can help it beat Lando-T/Gliscor since they have to break the Balloon and take 2 turns to break the Sub (non-EQ moves don't break Terrak Sub), but one should still tread carefully since Stone Edge sucks. It also heavily screws over Scarf Lando lacking Superpower (which is most).

Payapa + QA lets Terrak beat Zam 1v1, which is mainly helpful either in an endgame scenario vs the spoon man or when paired with Cloyster to punish the opponent using Gliscor/Lando-T as their answer to Terrak. It can also help Terrak beat Reuni 1v1 assuming Stone Edge cooperates. QA can also just be a degen way of finishing off stuff like a super weakened Latios or something.

Chople is pretty self-explanatory as a 1-use absorber for a stray Focus Blast or a Loom/ScarfTar RK attempt. It's pretty independent of 4th move choice IMO.

Protect is pretty independent of the item choice, but it's nice for the general utility of the move. Scouting Scarfers that come in to RK Terrak or stalling for an extra turn of Sand can be a game changer.


Conclusion

Overall, Terrak is certainly a Pokemon worth using even if it's not dominant or ubiquitous. It has strengths one can play to and weaknesses that are still more than possible to work around.

 

[For 4LOM]

Bad Underrated Rotom-W Sets Appreciation Post

​

Rotom-W is one of the most defining mons in BW OU. It's been reliably Volt Switching and Hydro Pumping OU for over 12 years. While its defensive and scarf sets are excellent, it has more than 2 viable sets. I am going to mention some of these underappreciated sets.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Trick / Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass] / Signal Beam

A sleeper pick rain abuser. Does a ton of damage with 100% accurate Thunders, and Hydro Pumps boosted by rain that are able to dent anything not resistant or immune. A strong Volt Switch also chips away at Rotom-W's non-electric immune checks. The EVs let it outspeed +Speed base 70s while maxing out its Special Attack. Its 4th move is quite varied and comes down to what your team needs.

Some relevant calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Rain: 192-227 (63.7 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 314-372 (77.9 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 24 HP / 104 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 295-348 (96.7 - 114%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Breloom in Rain: 315-371 (120.6 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-Black in Rain: 228-268 (58.3 - 68.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes

Rotom-Wash @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Charge Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Substitute
- Pain Split

Sub Charge Beam might look subpar in modern BW with Ferrothorn being top tier, but it might have unique traits for Rain or Weatherless teams. Substitute eases prediction while Charge Beam helps break through walls. Pain Split lets you beat most mons that want to wall out Rotom-W like Reuniclus and Chansey/Blissey. The main issue with this set is its inability to beat Ferrothron even with Pain Split. Your team should have a way to remove Ferrothorn so that Rotom-W can capitalize on its ability to wallbreak. The EVs are the same as Specs Rotom-W, but move 4 EVs into either Defense or Special Defensive because 32 HP is a Life Orb number.

Rotom-Wash @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 14 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Hear me out. Most dual screens users have the goal of setting up two screens then fainting. Rotom-W on the other hand can do that, and safely bring in your sweeper without making it a 5-6. It also still functions as a normal Rotom-W, but has an issue with longevity. Most HO games only last a couple of turns anyway, so losing lefties and Pain Split aren't as crippling as it seems. The EVs are standard, but I dropped the speed down to get a slow Volt Switch while also letting it outspeed 0 Speed Heatran.

Conclusion

​

Rotom-W has a lot of underappreciated sets that should see a bit more love. It has a lot of unique moves that let it fill more roles than a defensive piece. Several mons in BW have more sets than meets the eye, so I would enjoy seeing more experimentation with mons that seem "solved".

 

[mad dawg]

This thread seems to be getting back on track so I'll share some interesting sets of common pokemon that eden and I tried (not gonna try and claim anything in a meta as old as this) continuing with the mon 4lom was talking about above

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 64 SpA / 88 SpD / 88 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

This may not seem that revolutionary at first glance and well it isn't but can be a good example of how just by moving some evs around you can gain some flexibility while still keeping the core traits.

The main reason eden and I tried this was to get was to out speed lo ada sciz to burn or finish it off on a team that was a little weak to it and to give rotom more pressure vs thundy-t. As you can see in the calcs below this set still can be used to check the same thing just requires you to be a bit more delicate and in regards to keld rotom shouldn't be your only check regardless.

Unfortunately this set misses out on the guaranteed thundy ohko but being able to kill after rocks/substitute is still valuable since as we all know thundy can tear open a team quickly. The other benefits of running modest which I didn't realize at the time are being able to always break the niche subtect trans sub all of the time and being able to surprise a cheeky glisc stay in to potentially ohko it depending on their set.

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 88 SpD Rotom-Wash in Rain: 127-150 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 127-151 (41.9 - 49.8%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 225-270 (74.2 - 89.1%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Never-Melt Ice Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Rotom-Wash: 84-100 (27.7 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
48+ SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunder vs. 248 HP / 88 SpD Rotom-Wash: 177-208 (58.4 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

64+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 104 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus-Therian in Rain: 283-334 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
64+ SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 8 HP / 100 SpD Heatran: 81-96 (24.9 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
64+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Gliscor: 342-404 (97.1 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
64+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 272-324 (77.2 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Some other sets you could try are:
248 HP / 20 Def / 220 SpA / 20 SpD modest to get the ohko on thundy in rain and still retain the basic defensive capacities while sacrificing pretty much all your spdef
248 HP / 44 Def / 88 SpD / 128 Spe bold which allows you to out speed loom and potentially get a burn on it and live a banded bullet seed to limit how much damage it can do to your team





Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 148 SpD / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock / Stone Edge / Rock Slide

Im sure most of us have seen spdef lando running around in ss and wondered if it could work in bw, well this was my attempt. This set could be accused of doing to much at once which is honestly fair but its hilarious seeing a lando live a thundy/lati/zam/volc hit. I truely believe this could be made better. I just dumped a bunch of calcs so you could see whats potentially possible.

Hp ice still does decent damage vs lando chomp dnite being able to 2hko all (need sand up for dnite) but stone edge could also be an option as well rock slide if you are really worried about missing vs volc.

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 24+ Def Landorus-Therian: 159-187 (41.7 - 49%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Sand Force Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 24+ Def Landorus-Therian in Sand: 126-148 (33 - 38.8%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
48+ SpA Thundurus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 148 SpD Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.9 - 99.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Alakazam Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 148 SpD Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.9 - 99.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 248 HP / 148 SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-372 (82.9 - 97.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 148 SpD Landorus-Therian: 232-274 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 148 SpD Landorus-Therian: 306-361 (80.3 - 94.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 444-524 (122.9 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 104 HP / 144 Def Thundurus-Therian: 222-262 (68.3 - 80.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 240 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-Therian: 252-300 (66.4 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 220-260 (61.6 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Landorus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 94-112 (29.1 - 34.6%) -- 5.2% chance to 3HKO


Obviously these shouldn't replace the standard sets which are the standard for a reason but you should be open to making small adjustments similar to these sets when building to add another dimension to your teams.

Cheers

 

[Crenando24]

Ladies and Gentlemen and Tax Entities, I present to you all my Hippo+ScarfTar Sand Balance that I used to get 1500< Elo:

​

I already have most of my thoughts on this team in the Paste's comments but to reiterate here, The team has both the luxury of a Sand Stream mon that's bulky and longevity focused, plus a Tyranitar set which can do damage and *offensively* check things rather than defensively. No one expects scarf Tar anymore which means one can get cheesy KOs on Mie/Terak/Non Scarf Lando, Latios, and Chomp. IB could be Stone Edge if you really wanted I guess.

As an aside, Jolly > Naive everytime. The power difference on beam isnt backbreaking as I'll show with some dandy calcs:

0- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0- SpD Landorus-Therian: 316-376 (83.3 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 272-320 (76.1 - 89.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
0- SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 236-280 (73 - 86.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You do miss out on some guaranteed OHKOs but in my opinion this is somewhat assuaged by no longer immediately dying to stab earthquakes from full health:

VS. 0 Atk Lando EQ (Jolly Ttar / Hasty Ttar)
(84.7 - 100.9%) / (95.3 - 112.1%)

VS. Garchomp EQ
(94 - 110.9%) / (105.2 - 123.9%)

VS 0 Atk Gliscor EQ
(59.8 - 71%) / (66 - 78.5%)

Skarm&Jelly is the classic sand duo so I won't say much about them. Skarm's item slot can be tailored to whatever MU you think you'll be facing, i.e. Lefties against Rain, R.Helmet vs Sand, and Shed Shell against w-less and my go-to item because this team isnt the hottest vs mag teams.

Hydreigon is the Latios for the evening as it has some nice benefits over latios. The first is it not caring about Tyranitar at all as it breaks the Chople with FB for the back Zam. Its MU into opposing sand is super choice, plus the fact its deadweight versus rain means it can be used more aggressively early. Throughout testing and game to game I really dont think fire blast is required especially when half the things FB hits also get hit by Focus miss decently hard. 2HKOs ferro and good odds to OHKO Scizor with rocks and/or a spike while still mauling Drill and Mag. The bonus smack on Ttar and Tran cant be understated either.

Finally the Zam is also fairly standard, except psyshock to help vs Terak in Sand and hitting a boosted Volc harder. Twave is chosen to slow down the multitude of Set-up mons like aforementioned Volc, other MGuard Psychics, as well as most physical sweepers.

I wont act like this team is great but I am quite proud of making a team that I was able to reach top 50 with :)

 

[Crenando24]

Hey everyone, I'm still crossfaded but I just thought of a really cool Garchomp idea;

@ Soft Sand / Earth Plate
EVs: 252 atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
-Dual Chop / Dragon Claw / Fire Fang

Maybe this isnt a new discovery but while I was toying around with the damage calculator drunkenly I accidentally clicked Soft Sand on Chomp's item and noticed that Soft Sand makes Earthquake as strong as Outrage, Which in my opinion is absolutely huge considering that many teams play around chomp by locking it into Outrage and RK'ing with a faster scarf or Mamo etc. Now you can deal that power without locking into a move. The damage really does speak for itself;

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Shuca Berry Jirachi: 313-370 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Shuca Berry Jirachi: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Hippowdon: 280-331 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Hippowdon: 337-397 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 249-294 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 298-352 (84.6 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 325-384 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 390-460 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Additionally, I believe that this set could partner well with some cheese strategies like Smack Down Lando-T to make gliscor and Skarmory grounded, or perhaps even Gravity Landorus to really make those levitate bastards rue the day. Of course this set is giving up a lot of safety without Lum/Yache/Salac berry, but I think that being able to make one of your STAB moves as strong but more safe than Outrage sounds like a damn good steal.

 

[Crenando24]

Behold, the fruit of my labor/silliness. For some reason the BW Cores thread is locked so I'll post here again.

Now I know the Bronzong set will have many scratching their head, but everything is quite planned. As stated above I think Soft Sand Chomp could be super juicy with gravity/smack down cheese. I found that Bronzong is the best gravity setter in OU because Heatproof makes it way better versus Tran n fire moves. Shuca berry also means that you take any one earthquake while setting up.

The attack EVs are to always OHKO offensive Heatran and also has high odds to KO max HP Tran; the rest was shoved into Special Attack to try to make HP Ice hurt Lando and Gliscor more (and opposing dragons I suppose). I dont know if gravity pops air balloon but if it doesn't, AB Mag is the choice to trap the two steels that can set up on the other goobers, Skarm and Ferro. I'm honestly not sure how I'd use the Zong in a game but I hope this inspired someone to make a mag team with this wonky ass trio :)

(P.S., in hindsight I think the 4th move on chomp should either be Fire fang or Stealth Rock, for if Mag fails to trap a steel and to have a 2nd rock setter respectively)