Respectfully, I think you may have read it wrong: My Rock Wrecker is basically Nature's Madness (50% of target's current HP) but buffed to remove Rocks and deal more damage. Additionally, it was not max HP but current HP.
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pet Mod Bust a Move (Playable on Dragon Heaven!) [See you in SV!]
- Thread starter okispokis
- Start date
And it's time to vote! Here are the eligible subs:
Also I know what the one vetoed Rock Wrecker does, it's just that stronger Super Fang is OP even if it only gets stronger with Rocks up.
You have 4 days to vote for your favorite subs (little extra time cause of irl stuff).
Move Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
Category: Physical
BP: 150 -> 120
Acc: 90%
PP: 5
Effect: Lowers the user's Speed.
New Users:
Viable Users: 
Description: Hammer Arm, but slightly stronger since it can't be Iron Fist-boosted and is much rarer. Stakataka in particular loves this as an upgrade to Stone Edge that also boosts its Gyro Balls.
Type: Rock
Category: Physical
BP: 150 -> 120
Acc: 90%
PP: 5
Effect: Lowers the user's Speed.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Hammer Arm, but slightly stronger since it can't be Iron Fist-boosted and is much rarer. Stakataka in particular loves this as an upgrade to Stone Edge that also boosts its Gyro Balls.
Move Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
BP: 150->120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 90%->100%
Secondary Effect: Charges turn 1. Hits turn 2. No Charge in Sandstorm.
New Users:
, 
, 
Viable Users:, , , ,
Description: A Stong 100% accurate rock stab thats held back by its charge turn outside of sand. Tyranitar and gigalith gain access to a super strong rock stab that is supported by them setting sand. If tyranitar can destroy mountains is can definitely hurl a boulder.
Type: Rock
BP: 150->120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 90%->100%
Secondary Effect: Charges turn 1. Hits turn 2. No Charge in Sandstorm.
New Users:
, , Viable Users:
, , , , Description: A Stong 100% accurate rock stab thats held back by its charge turn outside of sand. Tyranitar and gigalith gain access to a super strong rock stab that is supported by them setting sand. If tyranitar can destroy mountains is can definitely hurl a boulder.
Move Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
BP: 120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 90%->100%
Secondary Effect: Raises Attack by 1 stage turn 1. Hits turn 2.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: physical meteor beam go
Type: Rock
BP: 120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 90%->100%
Secondary Effect: Raises Attack by 1 stage turn 1. Hits turn 2.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: physical meteor beam go
Also I know what the one vetoed Rock Wrecker does, it's just that stronger Super Fang is OP even if it only gets stronger with Rocks up.
Move Name: Triple Kick
Type: Fighting
Category: Physical
BP: 10 -> 20
Acc: 90%
PP: 10
Effect: Hits three times. Separate accuracy check for each. Does not increase in damage after each hit. Each hit has a 50% chance to lower the target's Defense.
New Users: N/A
Viable Users:
Description: Needed to take Technician into account with this. Rather than being a direct Triple Axel clone, Triple Kick now has pretty significant boom-or-bust potential, letting Hitmontop break down walls. Balanced by being only on Hitmontop and Pheromosa, who is Uber anyways and has better things to do.
Type: Fighting
Category: Physical
BP: 10 -> 20
Acc: 90%
PP: 10
Effect: Hits three times. Separate accuracy check for each. Does not increase in damage after each hit. Each hit has a 50% chance to lower the target's Defense.
New Users: N/A
Viable Users:
Description: Needed to take Technician into account with this. Rather than being a direct Triple Axel clone, Triple Kick now has pretty significant boom-or-bust potential, letting Hitmontop break down walls. Balanced by being only on Hitmontop and Pheromosa, who is Uber anyways and has better things to do.
Move Name: Triple Kick
Type: Fighting
Category: Physical
BP: 20
Acc: 90%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Hits 3 times. Each hit has its own accuracy check and once 1 misses, the move ends. Increases by 20 bp after each hit. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Triple Kick just wants some love. Now its a Triple Axel clone as it should already be.
Type: Fighting
Category: Physical
BP: 20
Acc: 90%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Hits 3 times. Each hit has its own accuracy check and once 1 misses, the move ends. Increases by 20 bp after each hit. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Triple Kick just wants some love. Now its a Triple Axel clone as it should already be.
Move Name: Trump Card
Type: Normal
Category: Special
BP: --
Acc: --
PP: 5
Effect: The more PP this move has remaining, the greater its power. 4+ PP - 120 BP. 3 PP - 80 BP. 2 PP - 60 BP. 1 PP - 50 BP. 0 PP - 40 BP.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Reversed it and nerfed the max power. Now it's a strong attack to start with that rapidly falls off as it's used. Pixilate Sylveon loves it.
Type: Normal
Category: Special
BP: --
Acc: --
PP: 5
Effect: The more PP this move has remaining, the greater its power. 4+ PP - 120 BP. 3 PP - 80 BP. 2 PP - 60 BP. 1 PP - 50 BP. 0 PP - 40 BP.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Reversed it and nerfed the max power. Now it's a strong attack to start with that rapidly falls off as it's used. Pixilate Sylveon loves it.
Move Name: Trump Card
Type:
BP: 75
PP: 5 [Max 8]
Accuracy: ---
Secondary Effect: +1 Priority, Fails if the target has more than 1/2 of their maximum health.
New Users:
,
,
/
/
,
/
/
,
Viable Users:
Description: I thought it’d be cool to make this move a more literal Trump Card. Simple enough it’s a powerful, but easy to thwart priority move. Under the right conditions can secure a valuable KO. Priority for special attackers is so hard to come by, so this will surely find some use among special breakers.
Type:
BP: 75
PP: 5 [Max 8]
Accuracy: ---
Secondary Effect: +1 Priority, Fails if the target has more than 1/2 of their maximum health.
New Users:
,,//,//,Viable Users:
Description: I thought it’d be cool to make this move a more literal Trump Card. Simple enough it’s a powerful, but easy to thwart priority move. Under the right conditions can secure a valuable KO. Priority for special attackers is so hard to come by, so this will surely find some use among special breakers.
Move Name: Trump Card
Type: Normal
BP: 200
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: User swaps items with the foe. This move fails if user is holding an item.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Essentially a one time nuke. Play your trump card right and a Pokémon is getting erased by sylveon. also give indeedee a strong normal stab if it choose to forgo specs for some reason.
Type: Normal
BP: 200
PP: 5
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: User swaps items with the foe. This move fails if user is holding an item.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Essentially a one time nuke. Play your trump card right and a Pokémon is getting erased by sylveon. also give indeedee a strong normal stab if it choose to forgo specs for some reason.
Move Name: Trump Card
Type: Normal
BP: -- --> 130
PP: 5 [8]
Accuracy: 100% --> 90%
Secondary Effect: This move fails if the user has over 25% HP.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A trump card is something you use at a massive disadvantage. This seems to reflect that.
Type: Normal
BP: -- --> 130
PP: 5 [8]
Accuracy: 100% --> 90%
Secondary Effect: This move fails if the user has over 25% HP.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A trump card is something you use at a massive disadvantage. This seems to reflect that.
You have 4 days to vote for your favorite subs (little extra time cause of irl stuff).
Sorry i didnt see the message about triple kick. Will pay more attention next time.
Rock Wrecker: Z-nogyroP, Analysis geek, Anaconja
Triple kick: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Trump Card: Z-nogyroP , d3adbydayl1ght , Rasdanation.
Rock Wrecker: Z-nogyroP, Analysis geek, Anaconja
Triple kick: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Trump Card: Z-nogyroP , d3adbydayl1ght , Rasdanation.
Rasdanation, d3adbydayl1ght, analysis geek
Rock Wrecker: Analysis Geek, anaconja, Z-nogyroP
Triple Kick: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Trump Card: analysis geek, Rasdanation, d3adbydayl1ght
Triple Kick: PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP
Trump Card: analysis geek, Rasdanation, d3adbydayl1ght
And the results are in (a bit late cause my body decided to stop working for a bit). The winning subs are:
For Rock Wrecker: analysis geek!
For Triple Kick: PalpitoadChamp!
For Trump Card: Rasdanation!
Congrats to all our winners! And now for the next slate:
Slate 30: Terror TimeSuggested by Z-nogyroP. A bit out of season, but this slate we have trio of spooky moves: Phantom Force, Scary Face and Night Daze. Phantom Force suffers the same issue as many two-turn moves, being overly predictable. Scary Face is another example of a stat-dropping status move that simply doesn't provide enough use to feature in any consistent strategies. Night Daze doesn't do much to justify use over Dark Pulse, giving a slight power bump for a chance to miss and less PP while its strategy is inherently more RNG reliant. No special notes.
For Rock Wrecker: analysis geek!
Move Name: Rock Wrecker
Type: Rock
BP: 150->120
PP: 5
Accuracy: 90%->100%
Secondary Effect: Charges turn 1. Hits turn 2. No Charge in Sandstorm.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A Stong 100% accurate rock stab thats held back by its charge turn outside of sand. Tyranitar and gigalith gain access to a super strong rock stab that is supported by them setting sand. If tyranitar can destroy mountains is can definitely hurl a boulder.
analysis geek: 11
Z-noygroP: 7
anaconja: 6
Z-noygroP: 7
anaconja: 6
For Triple Kick: PalpitoadChamp!
Move Name: Triple Kick
Type: Fighting
Category: Physical
BP: 20
Acc: 90%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Hits 3 times. Each hit has its own accuracy check and once 1 misses, the move ends. Increases by 20 bp after each hit. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Triple Kick just wants some love. Now its a Triple Axel clone as it should already be.
For Trump Card: Rasdanation!
Move Name: Trump Card
Type:
BP: 75
PP: 5 [Max 8]
Accuracy: ---
Secondary Effect: +1 Priority, Fails if the target has more than 1/2 of their maximum health.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: I thought it’d be cool to make this move a more literal Trump Card. Simple enough it’s a powerful, but easy to thwart priority move. Under the right conditions can secure a valuable KO. Priority for special attackers is so hard to come by, so this will surely find some use among special breakers.
Rasdanation: 7
d3adbydayl1ght: 6
Z-noygroP: 6
analysis geek: 4
d3adbydayl1ght: 6
Z-noygroP: 6
analysis geek: 4
Congrats to all our winners! And now for the next slate:
Slate 30: Terror Time
~~~
You guys have a little over one week to get subs in. Keep the rules in mind, but otherwise get out there and Bust a Move!
Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
Category: Special
BP: 85 -> 130
Acc: 95%
PP: 10 -> 5
Effect: Sharply lowers the user's Sp. Attack after use.
New Users:
Viable Users: 
Description: Dark-types suffer greatly from a lack of really strong options (though admittedly for good reason), so Night Daze adds an Overheat equivalent for them. Lets Zoroark snipe something with Illusion more effectively. Malamar can now run a funny special Contrary set.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 90 -> 100
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 -> 15
Effect: Charges at the start of the turn, then gets executed at -3 priority. Any Pokémon that makes contact with the user while it's charging is afflicted with Curse. Does not make contact. Still bypasses Protect.
New Users:
Viable Users: 
Description: The problem with Phantom Force is Dragapult has it, and Dragapult with a good physical Ghost STAB is a nightmare, and also the move needs to compete with Poltergeist. So here's a take on it that essentially turns it into (pre-change) Beak Blast, for a pretty different set of Pokémon. Now it's best suited to bulky stall-types, and can help discourage Knock Off by Cursing the attacker. Aegislash might be too strong with it? But if that's the case it can lose it and there would still be several other Pokémon that would use it.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 10
Effect: Resets the target's stat changes, then lowers the target's Speed stat.
New Users:
Viable Users: 
Description: Very similar to Haze in theory (and better because of the Speed-lowering effect), but with very different distribution and a few key differences - first, significantly less PP, which means it's easier to stall out and can't be used as a stall tactic on its own the way Haze can, and secondly, because it's single-target, its Prankster users in Tornadus, Thundurus, and Grimmsnarl can't use it against Dark-types. Still, it remains a very useful way to screw over setup sweepers.
Type: Dark
Category: Special
BP: 85 -> 130
Acc: 95%
PP: 10 -> 5
Effect: Sharply lowers the user's Sp. Attack after use.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Dark-types suffer greatly from a lack of really strong options (though admittedly for good reason), so Night Daze adds an Overheat equivalent for them. Lets Zoroark snipe something with Illusion more effectively. Malamar can now run a funny special Contrary set.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 90 -> 100
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 -> 15
Effect: Charges at the start of the turn, then gets executed at -3 priority. Any Pokémon that makes contact with the user while it's charging is afflicted with Curse. Does not make contact. Still bypasses Protect.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: The problem with Phantom Force is Dragapult has it, and Dragapult with a good physical Ghost STAB is a nightmare, and also the move needs to compete with Poltergeist. So here's a take on it that essentially turns it into (pre-change) Beak Blast, for a pretty different set of Pokémon. Now it's best suited to bulky stall-types, and can help discourage Knock Off by Cursing the attacker. Aegislash might be too strong with it? But if that's the case it can lose it and there would still be several other Pokémon that would use it.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 10
Effect: Resets the target's stat changes, then lowers the target's Speed stat.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Very similar to Haze in theory (and better because of the Speed-lowering effect), but with very different distribution and a few key differences - first, significantly less PP, which means it's easier to stall out and can't be used as a stall tactic on its own the way Haze can, and secondly, because it's single-target, its Prankster users in Tornadus, Thundurus, and Grimmsnarl can't use it against Dark-types. Still, it remains a very useful way to screw over setup sweepers.
Last edited:
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP:-
PP: 10
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Lowers target's speed by two. Boost power of moves that can flinch by 2x next turn.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: This changed makes mamoswine an even scarier wallbreaker than it already while simultaneously providing speed control.
Type: Normal
BP:-
PP: 10
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Lowers target's speed by two. Boost power of moves that can flinch by 2x next turn.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: This changed makes mamoswine an even scarier wallbreaker than it already while simultaneously providing speed control.
Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 95
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Has -1 priority. This pokemon takes 0.5x damage from all moves before this move is used. Ignores protection. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Bulky offensive move.
Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 1 and Spe by 2. Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 2 if the target switched out.
New Users: None
Viable Users: Various pokemon
Description: Support move that knocks down offensive foes.
Name: Night Daze
Type: Ghost
Category: Special
Bp: 90
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: This move is disguised ala Illusion to look like the move with the highest bp of the last unfainted pokemon in the user's party.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Zoroark can now do some funky shenanigans and pretend to be a different pokemon. Is this codable? Doubtfully.
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 95
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Has -1 priority. This pokemon takes 0.5x damage from all moves before this move is used. Ignores protection. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Bulky offensive move.
Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 1 and Spe by 2. Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 2 if the target switched out.
New Users: None
Viable Users: Various pokemon
Description: Support move that knocks down offensive foes.
Name: Night Daze
Type: Ghost
Category: Special
Bp: 90
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: This move is disguised ala Illusion to look like the move with the highest bp of the last unfainted pokemon in the user's party.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Zoroark can now do some funky shenanigans and pretend to be a different pokemon. Is this codable? Doubtfully.
Last edited:
Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
BP: 85->75
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 95->100
Secondary Effect: Super effective against the Fairy Type (same concept as freeze-dry) .
New Users: 
Viable Users:
Description: A way for dark types to break through fairys, but with a slightly lower overall power than Dark Pulse. Can help out special breakers and reduce their switchins.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users:
+anything else that benefits from trapping.
Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
BP: 90->70
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Deals damage based on target's special defence instead of physical defence.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Edit: Changed the effects of Night Daze to keep it more competitive.
Description: A physical variation on psyshock, this can help physical ghost attackers to break walls. Power nerfed a bit just because Dragapult.
Type: Dark
BP: 85->75
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 95->100
Secondary Effect: Super effective against the Fairy Type (same concept as freeze-dry) .
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A way for dark types to break through fairys, but with a slightly lower overall power than Dark Pulse. Can help out special breakers and reduce their switchins.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users:
+anything else that benefits from trapping.Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
BP: 90->70
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Deals damage based on target's special defence instead of physical defence.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Edit: Changed the effects of Night Daze to keep it more competitive.
Description: A physical variation on psyshock, this can help physical ghost attackers to break walls. Power nerfed a bit just because Dragapult.
Last edited:
Isn't Dragapult banned in National Dex?Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
BP: 85->50
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 95->85
Secondary Effect: Has a 50% chance to induce sleep.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A new way of sleep spreading, while not being entirely passive. Zoroark gains a whole new level of crossups with this.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
BP: 90->70
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Deals damage based on target's special defence instead of physical defence.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A physical variation on psyshock, this can help physical ghost attackers to break walls. Power nerfed a bit just because Dragapult.
I'm not sure, if it is than just ignore that part
Oh it 100% is. So I'll just ignore that part.
Quick round of feedback.
cheesesir: Sleep is a very scary thing. Even on a weak move, a 50% chance to inflict sleep is- a lot, and I do not believe I am comfortable with allowing this, especially in conjunction with Illusion; that combo would basically mean you have no safe switch-ins ever because of just how strong sleep can be.
24 hour warning.
cheesesir: Sleep is a very scary thing. Even on a weak move, a 50% chance to inflict sleep is- a lot, and I do not believe I am comfortable with allowing this, especially in conjunction with Illusion; that combo would basically mean you have no safe switch-ins ever because of just how strong sleep can be.
24 hour warning.
And voting is (finally) open! Here are all eligible options:
Three days to get votes in (until 0:00 GMT on Monday, June 13th), make sure you read the rules regarding voting, particularly self-votes.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 90 -> 100
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 -> 15
Effect: Charges at the start of the turn, then gets executed at -3 priority. Any Pokémon that makes contact with the user while it's charging is afflicted with Curse. Does not make contact. Still bypasses Protect.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: The problem with Phantom Force is Dragapult has it, and Dragapult with a good physical Ghost STAB is a nightmare, and also the move needs to compete with Poltergeist. So here's a take on it that essentially turns it into (pre-change) Beak Blast, for a pretty different set of Pokémon. Now it's best suited to bulky stall-types, and can help discourage Knock Off by Cursing the attacker. Aegislash might be too strong with it? But if that's the case it can lose it and there would still be several other Pokémon that would use it.
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 90 -> 100
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 -> 15
Effect: Charges at the start of the turn, then gets executed at -3 priority. Any Pokémon that makes contact with the user while it's charging is afflicted with Curse. Does not make contact. Still bypasses Protect.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: The problem with Phantom Force is Dragapult has it, and Dragapult with a good physical Ghost STAB is a nightmare, and also the move needs to compete with Poltergeist. So here's a take on it that essentially turns it into (pre-change) Beak Blast, for a pretty different set of Pokémon. Now it's best suited to bulky stall-types, and can help discourage Knock Off by Cursing the attacker. Aegislash might be too strong with it? But if that's the case it can lose it and there would still be several other Pokémon that would use it.
Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 95
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Has -1 priority. This pokemon takes 0.5x damage from all moves before this move is used. Ignores protection. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Bulky offensive move.
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 95
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Has -1 priority. This pokemon takes 0.5x damage from all moves before this move is used. Ignores protection. [Contact]
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Bulky offensive move.
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
BP: 90->70
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Deals damage based on target's special defence instead of physical defence.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A physical variation on psyshock, this can help physical ghost attackers to break walls. Power nerfed a bit just because Dragapult.
Type: Ghost
BP: 90->70
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Deals damage based on target's special defence instead of physical defence.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A physical variation on psyshock, this can help physical ghost attackers to break walls. Power nerfed a bit just because Dragapult.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 10
Effect: Resets the target's stat changes, then lowers the target's Speed stat.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Very similar to Haze in theory (and better because of the Speed-lowering effect), but with very different distribution and a few key differences - first, significantly less PP, which means it's easier to stall out and can't be used as a stall tactic on its own the way Haze can, and secondly, because it's single-target, its Prankster users in Tornadus, Thundurus, and Grimmsnarl can't use it against Dark-types. Still, it remains a very useful way to screw over setup sweepers.
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: --
Acc: 100%
PP: 10
Effect: Resets the target's stat changes, then lowers the target's Speed stat.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Very similar to Haze in theory (and better because of the Speed-lowering effect), but with very different distribution and a few key differences - first, significantly less PP, which means it's easier to stall out and can't be used as a stall tactic on its own the way Haze can, and secondly, because it's single-target, its Prankster users in Tornadus, Thundurus, and Grimmsnarl can't use it against Dark-types. Still, it remains a very useful way to screw over setup sweepers.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP:-
PP: 10
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Lowers target's speed by two. Boost power of moves that can flinch by 2x next turn.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: This changed makes mamoswine an even scarier wallbreaker than it already while simultaneously providing speed control.
Type: Normal
BP:-
PP: 10
Accuracy: 100
Secondary Effect: Lowers target's speed by two. Boost power of moves that can flinch by 2x next turn.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: This changed makes mamoswine an even scarier wallbreaker than it already while simultaneously providing speed control.
Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 1 and Spe by 2. Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 2 if the target switched out.
New Users: None
Viable Users: Various pokemon
Description: Support move that knocks down offensive foes.
Type: Normal
Category: Status
BP: ---
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 1 and Spe by 2. Lowers the target's Att & SpA by 2 if the target switched out.
New Users: None
Viable Users: Various pokemon
Description: Support move that knocks down offensive foes.
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users: +anything else that benefits from trapping.
Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users:
+anything else that benefits from trapping.Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
Category: Special
BP: 85 -> 130
Acc: 95%
PP: 10 -> 5
Effect: Sharply lowers the user's Sp. Attack after use.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Dark-types suffer greatly from a lack of really strong options (though admittedly for good reason), so Night Daze adds an Overheat equivalent for them. Lets Zoroark snipe something with Illusion more effectively. Malamar can now run a funny special Contrary set.
Type: Dark
Category: Special
BP: 85 -> 130
Acc: 95%
PP: 10 -> 5
Effect: Sharply lowers the user's Sp. Attack after use.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Dark-types suffer greatly from a lack of really strong options (though admittedly for good reason), so Night Daze adds an Overheat equivalent for them. Lets Zoroark snipe something with Illusion more effectively. Malamar can now run a funny special Contrary set.
Name: Night Daze
Type: Ghost
Category: Special
Bp: 90
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: This move is disguised ala Illusion to look like the move with the highest bp of the last unfainted pokemon in the user's party.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Zoroark can now do some funky shenanigans and pretend to be a different pokemon. Is this codable? Doubtfully.
Type: Ghost
Category: Special
Bp: 90
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 (16)
Effect: This move is disguised ala Illusion to look like the move with the highest bp of the last unfainted pokemon in the user's party.
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: Zoroark can now do some funky shenanigans and pretend to be a different pokemon. Is this codable? Doubtfully.
Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
BP: 85->75
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 95->100
Secondary Effect: Super effective against the Fairy Type (same concept as freeze-dry) .
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A way for dark types to break through fairys, but with a slightly lower overall power than Dark Pulse. Can help out special breakers and reduce their switchins.
Type: Dark
BP: 85->75
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: 95->100
Secondary Effect: Super effective against the Fairy Type (same concept as freeze-dry) .
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: A way for dark types to break through fairys, but with a slightly lower overall power than Dark Pulse. Can help out special breakers and reduce their switchins.
Three days to get votes in (until 0:00 GMT on Monday, June 13th), make sure you read the rules regarding voting, particularly self-votes.
cheesesir, PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP Z-nogyroP, cheesesir, PalpitoadChamp PalpitoadChamp, Z-nogyroP, cheesesirPhantom force: Z-nogyroP, Cheesesir, Palpitoadchamp
Scary Face: Cheesesir, Z-nogyroP, Analysis geek(sv)
Night daze: Cheesesir, Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp
Scary Face: Cheesesir, Z-nogyroP, Analysis geek(sv)
Night daze: Cheesesir, Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp
Scary Face: PalpitoadChamp, cheesesir (sv), analysis geek
Night Daze: Z-NogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, cheesesir (sv)
Phantom Force: Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, cheesesir(IDK if I can vote for myself if no options are left and it exceeds the self vote limit, if I can't then ignore this self vote)
Night Daze: Z-NogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, cheesesir (sv)
Phantom Force: Z-nogyroP, PalpitoadChamp, cheesesir(IDK if I can vote for myself if no options are left and it exceeds the self vote limit, if I can't then ignore this self vote)
And the votes are in! Here are the winners:
For Phantom Force: Z-nogyroP!
For Scary Face: cheesesir!
For Night Daze: Z-nogyroP!
Congratulations to our winners, as always! Next up: nothing for the moment. In the interest of pacing ourselves, we're going to be taking a short break; I've been meaning to pause for a while, and I am heading out in a few days to a place that may not have reliable Internet so this seemed like a natural time. Not to worry, it's going to be a shorter break this time. When we get back, we're going to be doing something a bit different before our next slate, so stay tuned.
For Phantom Force: Z-nogyroP!
Move Name: Phantom Force
Type: Ghost
Category: Physical
BP: 90 -> 100
Acc: 100%
PP: 10 -> 15
Effect: Charges at the start of the turn, then gets executed at -3 priority. Any Pokémon that makes contact with the user while it's charging is afflicted with Curse. Does not make contact. Still bypasses Protect.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: The problem with Phantom Force is Dragapult has it, and Dragapult with a good physical Ghost STAB is a nightmare, and also the move needs to compete with Poltergeist. So here's a take on it that essentially turns it into (pre-change) Beak Blast, for a pretty different set of Pokémon. Now it's best suited to bulky stall-types, and can help discourage Knock Off by Cursing the attacker. Aegislash might be too strong with it? But if that's the case it can lose it and there would still be several other Pokémon that would use it.
Z-nogyroP: 10
PalpitoadChamp: 7
cheesesir: 7
PalpitoadChamp: 7
cheesesir: 7
For Scary Face: cheesesir!
Move Name: Scary Face
Type: Normal
BP: N/A
PP: 10 (max 16)
Accuracy: Always Hits
Secondary Effect: Traps the target, and lowers the targets speed by 1 stage each turn (Same concept as octolock).
New Users: None
Viable Users:
Description: A trapping move that offers some speed control utility. Can hamper switch ins, but also punishes staying in on a poor matchup. It may be a niche option, but could help setup sweepers to reach dangerous levels.
cheesesir: 8
PalpitoadChamp: 7
Z-nogyroP: 5
analysis geek: 4
PalpitoadChamp: 7
Z-nogyroP: 5
analysis geek: 4
For Night Daze: Z-nogyroP!
Move Name: Night Daze
Type: Dark
Category: Special
BP: 85 -> 130
Acc: 95%
PP: 10 -> 5
Effect: Sharply lowers the user's Sp. Attack after use.
New Users:
Viable Users:
Description: Dark-types suffer greatly from a lack of really strong options (though admittedly for good reason), so Night Daze adds an Overheat equivalent for them. Lets Zoroark snipe something with Illusion more effectively. Malamar can now run a funny special Contrary set.
Z-nogyroP: 10
PalpitoadChamp: 8
cheesesir: 6
PalpitoadChamp: 8
cheesesir: 6
Congratulations to our winners, as always! Next up: nothing for the moment. In the interest of pacing ourselves, we're going to be taking a short break; I've been meaning to pause for a while, and I am heading out in a few days to a place that may not have reliable Internet so this seemed like a natural time. Not to worry, it's going to be a shorter break this time. When we get back, we're going to be doing something a bit different before our next slate, so stay tuned.
Alright, take 5 is over! Now, before we begin our next slate, I figured it's finally time for our first Balance Patch Discussion!
~~~
With all the moves we've been buffing and the amount to which we've distributed them, there will inevitably rise concerns. In terms of distribution, some mons may be overpowered with a given move for the NaxtDex OU context we use for the mod, or a given move may fit so well with certain mons that other buffed moves they could viably use never see the light of day, ala how Grassy Surge + Grassy Glide on Rillaboom made Drum Beating obsolete, which would defy the core purpose of the mod. Also, there's a chance the now-buffed moves a Pokemon naturally gets may push it into problematic territory. As such, for both balancing and pacing reasons, from now on we are going to hold a balance discussion phase every 5-10 slates or so (we'll parse it out as we go) in order to look at the meta and see which things might be a bit much. This will also help us to gain a clearer sense for how each individual Pokemon's moveset should be handled, allowing us to curtail any "too many new toys" problem. To help with that, I am going to finally make a serious effort to help get Bust a Move get coded and will update you all on that as soon as I can; at the very least I promise we'll have that sorted out by the next discussion phase.
~~~
Balance Discussion 1
Posters will have the whole weekend (until 0:00 GMT on Monday) to go through our current distribution list and find any combinations that may be problematic or overpowered. If you have any recommendations, simply nominate a move for possible removal and provide logical reasoning as to why the updated move may be too much on this particular Pokemon. We will be primarily focused on general balance in a NatDex OU context this discussion, so to keep it simple we'll only be considering changes for potentially broken stuff. We will always prioritize removing a move addition over removing a Pokemon. If the problematic move(s) are in the Pokemon's canon learnset, the rules of the mod mean they cannot be removed; as such, the Pokemon instead will be placed on a watchlist and potentially be given a suspect test at a later date (they may be taken off the watchlist depending on further meta developments). You may nominate multiple combinations/Pokemon, though please keep them in one post.
At the end of this discussion, instead of our usual voting, all nominations will be compiled into a list. Voters will vote Yes, No or Abstain on each individual proposed removal or suspect, with a simple majority deciding each case. A majority of Yes will prompt action, though if a removal gets a large number of Abstain votes, that removal will automatically be on the table next discussion phase. Voting phase will be given enough time to acquire a sufficient number of votes.
~~~
With all that said, feel free to bring forth any nominations you may have, starting now! The changelog/distribution list can be found here. With all the moves we've been buffing and the amount to which we've distributed them, there will inevitably rise concerns. In terms of distribution, some mons may be overpowered with a given move for the NaxtDex OU context we use for the mod, or a given move may fit so well with certain mons that other buffed moves they could viably use never see the light of day, ala how Grassy Surge + Grassy Glide on Rillaboom made Drum Beating obsolete, which would defy the core purpose of the mod. Also, there's a chance the now-buffed moves a Pokemon naturally gets may push it into problematic territory. As such, for both balancing and pacing reasons, from now on we are going to hold a balance discussion phase every 5-10 slates or so (we'll parse it out as we go) in order to look at the meta and see which things might be a bit much. This will also help us to gain a clearer sense for how each individual Pokemon's moveset should be handled, allowing us to curtail any "too many new toys" problem. To help with that, I am going to finally make a serious effort to help get Bust a Move get coded and will update you all on that as soon as I can; at the very least I promise we'll have that sorted out by the next discussion phase.
~~~
Balance Discussion 1
Posters will have the whole weekend (until 0:00 GMT on Monday) to go through our current distribution list and find any combinations that may be problematic or overpowered. If you have any recommendations, simply nominate a move for possible removal and provide logical reasoning as to why the updated move may be too much on this particular Pokemon. We will be primarily focused on general balance in a NatDex OU context this discussion, so to keep it simple we'll only be considering changes for potentially broken stuff. We will always prioritize removing a move addition over removing a Pokemon. If the problematic move(s) are in the Pokemon's canon learnset, the rules of the mod mean they cannot be removed; as such, the Pokemon instead will be placed on a watchlist and potentially be given a suspect test at a later date (they may be taken off the watchlist depending on further meta developments). You may nominate multiple combinations/Pokemon, though please keep them in one post.
At the end of this discussion, instead of our usual voting, all nominations will be compiled into a list. Voters will vote Yes, No or Abstain on each individual proposed removal or suspect, with a simple majority deciding each case. A majority of Yes will prompt action, though if a removal gets a large number of Abstain votes, that removal will automatically be on the table next discussion phase. Voting phase will be given enough time to acquire a sufficient number of votes.
~~~
Well, I guess I’ll start with a quick balance suggestion to get the ball rolling:
Life Dew: Heals 33% of the user's HP. The next ally to enter the field will have 25% max HP restored upon enetering the field.
Justification: This change is a bit hard to judge, as the move still lacks coding. However, Life Dew’s 25% makes it hard to justify using for either purpose. Afterall, even when the move worked as intended in vanilla doubles, it rarely sees any use. Bumping the self healing to 33% intends to make the move a bit more reliable for the user, while still maintaining the intended drawback of the move.
Life Dew: Heals 33% of the user's HP. The next ally to enter the field will have 25% max HP restored upon enetering the field.
Justification: This change is a bit hard to judge, as the move still lacks coding. However, Life Dew’s 25% makes it hard to justify using for either purpose. Afterall, even when the move worked as intended in vanilla doubles, it rarely sees any use. Bumping the self healing to 33% intends to make the move a bit more reliable for the user, while still maintaining the intended drawback of the move.
A few things I'm seeing from quickly scanning the change log spreadsheet:
1) Crush Grip seems very strong, with 120 BP and 100% accuracy for a phasing move. It has a slightly lower pp than other moves of that type, but still seems out of line compared to Dragon Tail or Circle Throw.
2) Drum Beating doesn't seem to have any changes beyond the distribution, not sure if that's intentional or not.
3) Egg Bomb feels like it could be a bit much on Blissey/Chansey, IDK if the 90% accuracy really balances with having seismic toss /softboiled in one moveslot. I think that any fat wall can run this with very little downside, as the potential to miss a seismic toss is outweighed by the increased healing.
4) Quick Question about Aegislash and the revamped Phantom Force. Does it change forms at -3 priority when it executes the move, or does it change forms at regular priority? Because having a Aegislash in Shield Form that can punish contact seems a bit strong.
5) Another question, what does "partially trapped" mean for Shell Smash, I think some clarification in the move notes would be good.
6) Not sure how strong Honchkrow will be with Beak Blast, I think that might need to be watched a bit. Having access to strong Flying STAB would be a massive upgrade, and could make Moxie sweeping sets very scary. I don't think it should be changed yet, but definitly something to keep an eye on.
That's all I have for now, if I get a chance later this weekend I'll see if there's anything else I notice. Great to have this mod returning, hopefully we can get some tournaments or something once the coding is caught up.
1) Crush Grip seems very strong, with 120 BP and 100% accuracy for a phasing move. It has a slightly lower pp than other moves of that type, but still seems out of line compared to Dragon Tail or Circle Throw.
2) Drum Beating doesn't seem to have any changes beyond the distribution, not sure if that's intentional or not.
3) Egg Bomb feels like it could be a bit much on Blissey/Chansey, IDK if the 90% accuracy really balances with having seismic toss /softboiled in one moveslot. I think that any fat wall can run this with very little downside, as the potential to miss a seismic toss is outweighed by the increased healing.
4) Quick Question about Aegislash and the revamped Phantom Force. Does it change forms at -3 priority when it executes the move, or does it change forms at regular priority? Because having a Aegislash in Shield Form that can punish contact seems a bit strong.
5) Another question, what does "partially trapped" mean for Shell Smash, I think some clarification in the move notes would be good.
6) Not sure how strong Honchkrow will be with Beak Blast, I think that might need to be watched a bit. Having access to strong Flying STAB would be a massive upgrade, and could make Moxie sweeping sets very scary. I don't think it should be changed yet, but definitly something to keep an eye on.
That's all I have for now, if I get a chance later this weekend I'll see if there's anything else I notice. Great to have this mod returning, hopefully we can get some tournaments or something once the coding is caught up.
just addressing this one quickly - egg bomb is definitely not seismic toss and soft-boiled in one slot. each use of it heals for exactly 50 HP unless it KOs or hits an already-damaged substitute, which is slightly more HP than you would recover with leftovers each turn. it's helpful for chip healing certainly, but aside from the 90% accuracy it also has literally half as much PP as seismic toss, making it a lot easier to stall out.