SS OU Built a team with probably way too many uu mons in it, need feedback on improvements.

Weirdhamster

Banned deucer.
Pokepaste with the team: https://pokepast.es/887ae75f058afa6e

1. The Pokemon.

Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost

I firstly but my team around having a good defensive core that could take on both of the attacks, physical and special, I decided to first go with a physical wall. I had some options in Toxapex, Buzzwole and possibly even Umbreon but I wanted a wall that could dish out damage, help for utility and still have at least decent bulk with reliable recovery. Toxapex in my opinion was just too much of a sitting duck, it could prevent things from breaking it through but it never dished out that much damage back and mostly relied on scald burns to get damage.

Buzzwole was a Pokemon that I really looked into, Buzzwole having close combat and leech life for amazing stab, ice punch for Landorus and Garchomp, and roost for reliable recovery with heavy duty boots / rocky helmet paired with one of ou's best physically defensive stats with 107 hp and 139 physical defense seemed amazing, the only problem was that if the opponent had a hard wall like molters, though uncommon, buzzwole couldn't really do anything and its lack of utility like defog that Mandibuzz provides if the opponent switches out was more worth it than the extra bulk buzzword had. Additionally if buzzword gut surprised with a special attack on a weird set, it was almost always dying unless the hit was resisted due to its terrible base 53 spdef whilst madibuzz has decent spedf with a base 95 still being able to tank physical hits like a king.

Umbreon was also an option, though I felt like that getting toxiced on Umberon made it too worthless even though heal bell and wish pass support is amazing for any type of team and still being able to dish out damage like Mandibuzz with foul play.

Mandibuzzes EV spread is just a normal spread with max hp max defense and 4 SpDef even though it will probably never be saved due to its 4 SpDef but why not.
Making Mandibuzzes moves I knew that roost and defog was a necessity for Mandibuzz to do what I wanted to and foul play was also needed to hit physical attacks like physical Dragapult trying to set up on it. For the last move I was really debating with knock off or u turn, u turn is one of the best moves in the game, but so is knock off too, being able to knock off something like a Landorus-T's leftovers to make it unable to heal without wish pass is really important, but at the same time u turn provided an amazing pivot move if you re going in against a Kartana choice locked into a resisted move.

Lastly with Mandibuzz (I swear this is the last thing I will rant about Mandibuzz) is it's ability, I was debating weather to put overcoat for sleep powder / spore immunity since the only grass type I ever use is Rillaboom that I don't use either way nowadays was more worth than using big pecks that can make it a better sitting duck and make it much more reliable to use against a malarian Zapdos as if you are getting thunderous kicked and getting your def dropped the calc looks like this:
252 Atk Life Orb Zapdos-Galar Thunderous Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 130-153 (30.6 - 36%) -- 50.7% chance to 3HKO (With the thunderous kick)
252 Atk Life Orb Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 259-305 (61 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (With the close combat)

So as you can see, I either had to run overcoat to get sand immunity (Cause if you are brining Mandibuzz into a hail team, you're already doing something wrong to begin with) or use big pecks and just see how many "????"'s the opponent will spam in chat after thunderous kick did not have it secondary effect. Though, in the end of the day, I went with Overcoat as passive damage on defensive mons can be huge to cripple them down and since some stall teams run Amoonguss I didn't wanna just auto lose to those teams.

Oh my god why did Mandibuzz take so long I thought this was as long as the whole thread would be.

Now... (Pulls up Pokepaste and sprite converter)

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock

We have Chansey.

I swear I will not rant about Chansey as long as I did with Mandibuzz. But I chose to use Chansey as my special wall, the reason I did this is
1. Volcarona
and
2. Volcarona.
I cannot count how many times this thing has swept me, like even after one singular damn quiver dance it just takes out my whole team, and even worse is.
+6 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 280-331 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is a fucking max SpDef Chansey what the hell are these calcs.

In reality, I was debating about 2 Pokemon to use as my SpDef wall, the first one is Blissey, with heavy duty boots it doesn't care about rocks damage making it good to switch in multiple times and Chansey that with Eviolite had more bulk than Blissey even though it was its pre evolution.

I didn't even for a moment think about gking, reason being due to not being able to do any shit at all against Volcarona which will just dance through everything. (Good luck getting that sludge bomb poison on the Volcarona my guy).
I ended up opting for Chansey due to it having more bulk than Blissey which was all I really was looking for.
For the EV's spreads, instead of doing max def as a normal person due to psyshock Lele I instead opted for max SpDef as with max def uhh.
+6 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 387-456 (55 - 64.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, SpDef it is, no questions asked.

For the moves, soft boiled and seismic toss are essentially required on Chansey to be able to be a wall, though struggles against ghost types (Taunt jellyfish, I'm looking at you) and for the 2 last moves I could do things such as heal bell and wish but instead I opted for thunder wave and stealth rock.

I chose thunder wave due to being able to cripple things like Heatran and Volcarona (I'm looking at you, Volcarona) to attack Chansey. (and come on, what's more frustrating than para hax, that reason alone makes it 10x better than toxic.) For the last move I decided that Chansey would be my stealth rocker. Being able to switch in to a Hydreigon for example, and then being able to stealth rock when the Hydreigon switches out transforming into a Hydreigone. And Chansey having reliable recovery makes it be able to use stealth rock late game against stall for example which other stealth rockers like Heatran and Landorus lacks makes Chansey an amazing rocker.

Now for my first offensive Pokemon.
And that title goes to none other than Buzzwole. (Applause)

Buzzwole @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Leech Life
- Close Combat
- Earthquake

Remember how I talked about buzzword as a physical wall before? Probably not due to the other wall, the text. But another reason I didn't want Buzzwole as my defensive wall was due to its amazing offensive role too! I was debating to if I should use banded and just obliterate absolutely anything or if I should use scarf and have amazing speed control and then when I looked at the +1 speed and realized that it outsped Dragapult, I already knew that it was scarf. I also wanted a Pokemon that could get rid if steel types and offensive Buzzwole exceeded at that role being one of few viable fighting types not giving any fucks about balloons, (though ballon Aegislash ig could give problems)

The evs are normal EVs, just max attack and Jolly to outspeed Dragapult and speed tie Zeraora to threaten eq, and then the 4 SpDef that probably never will matter.
Moveset is just a completely normal moveset, double stab, eq for pex, ice punch for gchomp, Lando and fliers, not much to explain here.

Now comes the Pokemon that accidentally became the core of the team...

Choice specs Tapu lele.
Tapu Lele @ Choice Specs
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Psyshock

This Tapu Lele set is just your usual stallbreaking, I don't give a fuck if you resist me, wallbreaking Lele, it has choice specs almost giving it 600 spa (598 iirc to be exact) and instead of using focus miss, I decided to use thunderbolt (cause come on, who actually likes focus miss.) I decided to use thunderbolt mainly to make it break stall even harder, because guess which steel types has reliable recovery? Thats right, the birds. :skarmory: :Corviknight:. The birds are the 2 steel types who have roost, which is reliable recovery (technically Ferrothorn has leech seed but like if you have a grass type it isn't really reliable so yeah) If you see that the opponents team will switch in a Corv /Skarm, just use thunderbolt, here are the calcs for them:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 430-508 (128.7 - 152%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 334-394 (83.5 - 98.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

So yeah, Lele is pretty stronk.
For the item, I just really like specs over scarf due to stallbreaking and it does 33%+ to bulky steel types like Heatran with psyshock or psychic or tbolt.
Normal EVs, modest cause power greed and then max spa and speed with a little bit of spdef.

Now we have another UU Pokemon *wow*

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Flip Turn
- Hydro Pump
- Scald

We have the water horse Keldeo. Fun fact: Keldeo was meant to be the core of the team due to being able to ko Blissey and Ttar easily with secret sword but then my pea sized monke brain went: How build team? and just put random shit together and made it work, idk how. But now for the Pokemon itself. As mentioned previously, Keldeo can break both Ttar and Blissey but struggles against going as secret sword is double resisted and all other moves relies on its good spdef, though Lele can put in work against it.
Keldeo has really strong attacks with choice specs, look at this scald on a bulky Garchomp for example:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 223-264 (53 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Garchomp isnt even a switchin with its amazing bulk with 100% accurate scalds and if we look at Landorus-t we can see that scald is an OHKO right off the bat.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 470-554 (123 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Keldeo can also serve as a corebreaker for a lot of teams (it was for an old team of mine which inspired me to use it lmao)

A choice item once again, no shits given, normal EV spreads, max speed with timid nature, max spa to hit as hard and fast as possible and 4 spdef for the save that will never happen (I maybe should put those 4 EVs on physical attack due to flip turn idk)

Moveset is more interesting, I decided to only use secret sword as my special fighting stab as aura sphere and focus miss is aura sphere and focus miss, not much more to explain. I decided tp use scald instead of surf for my usual water stab as scald burns on physical attacks is basically knocking them out which is more worth than like 5 bp. I decided that I also wanted a good hard hitting stab in case Keldeo 6-0d the other team and hydro pump was my only option.
Lastly I put flip turn. The reason for this is that it'd a good pivot, if your opponent has a hard wall (That isn't you, Jellicent) like Galarian slowking, you can just flip turn when it switches in and then do basically nothing cause this team has nothing for galarian slowking.

As mentioned before, Keldeo is a really good special attacker cause with hydro pump it can do shit like this:
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 277-327 (69.2 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Wait nvm that was much weaker than I thought lets ignore what I just said.

Lastly I wanted a Pokemon that could offer support against rain, and the first thing that came to mind was Jellicent, but lets be honest, Jellicent kinda sucks, so I decided on using Gastrodon.

Gastrodon-East @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald
- Earth Power

(It's a Gastrodon east, don't believe the GIF.) Originally, I used clear smog on this Gastrodon, but after a while, I noticed that this Gastrodon wasn't gonna take any buffed hit like look at this calc:
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 186-219 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This gastro was really something else as a "special wall)

I'm not gonna go too in depth on Gastrodon, it mainly serves as an electric and water immunity making rain have a harder time against it. I originally had Toxapex but then I kept getting beaten ups by Volcanions so I switched to spdef Gastrodon, and even though its kinda terrible it can take hits like this:
252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 113-134 (26.5 - 31.4%) -- 17% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Like that's acceptable.

Nothing to really talk about the EVs or just the set in general, it's just a normal set, nothing weird or anything I think.

Now part 2: The (not) finale.
Threats: It's getting pretty late so I'm just gonna go through the list and explain it briefly.
1. Lele, If the Lele is choice locked, good, switch in gastro cause fuck him and then if it uses psyshock, go to Mandibuzz and if it clicks any other move go to Chansey and if it isn't choice locked, go to the x above the game.
2. Gking Sture sight support + walling a lot of my team isn't fun, just try to catch it with a Leles psyshock and have it only do like 70% or some shit.
3. Slurpuff, pretty funny how this is a threat but our only Pokemon that can take physical hits are mandibuzz and buzzwole so unless you know that its sticky webs then you're probably gonna lose (I can't wait for the day I get turn 1 swept by a banded slurpuff on arceus)
4. Alalkakazam, just do the same shit you did with Lele, nothing much more.

These are all the threats I came up with at the top of my head, there are definitely many more but eh.



Now part 3: The (not) finale: How to play the team
The way to use this team is essentially, look who's the stealth rocker / lead and gain momentum by leading either buzzwole, Lele or Keldeo and in best case Scenario, get a turn 1 KO

After that, you use Gastrodon as a sack cause fuck him (if its rain you wanna preserve it as long as possible due to intimidating the opponent making them not go for water moves) and then if you see a physical attacker, go mandibuzz or buzzword if mandibuzz loses and go to Chansey for special attacks unless its Lele or dragapult (go to Mandi, who gives a fuck about thunder) or Keldeo in which case you can say bye bye and click x, and Keldeo is also a threat I forgot to mention whoops.

Now part 4 THE FINALE: These are just some random replays I have showcasing the team so you understand how it works:
Vs double weather: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1703558745-x7kl0ty0pa2d0u3dgqddgga3110j2t4pw
Vs offense: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1703568726-v2wooz2szudi7w86o3xd9buxcgw3tp3pw
Vs balance (I think): https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1703571925-0w9mb55zrx1qko2am07emv05zlv7p1epw
Vs idk what this is: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1703591041
Vs Ferrothorn rain: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1703942164-ayjc7gs9os4aadfitk6yh5473mp3yehpw
Vs I have no clue what this is: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1704121775-vnbhzo2f6fat90jxxe725kambib530cpw
Vs electric spam: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1704130731
Vs I don't know where to put this: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1704140088

It's like late for me now and I can't proofread the thread so ignore spelling inaccuracies plsty. Goodnight. Accepting all feedback including criticism.
 
Guys I'm in this post (last replay is me using a sample)
Now... (Pulls up Pokepaste and sprite converter)

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
The efficacy of spdef chansey isn't as good as physdef, stats don't scale like that.
If you go from 37 defense (stat) to 113 defense (stat) you have increased your defense by 3x.
If you go from 250 -> 326 spdef you only get a 1.3x increase.
EVs are meant to maximize stat potential, so put them in physdef.

Gastrodon-East @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald
- Earth Power

(It's a Gastrodon east, don't believe the GIF.) Originally, I used clear smog on this Gastrodon, but after a while, I noticed that this Gastrodon wasn't gonna take any buffed hit like look at this calc:
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 186-219 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
This gastro was really something else as a "special wall)
Gastrodon as a mon fits on specific rain/knock weak balances and stall and nothing else, it feels like you could probably do with a different bulky water. Washtom maybe?
Mandibuzz @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
This entire set when foul play won't be doing much:

Run toxic it's cool

Now we have another UU Pokemon *wow*

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Flip Turn
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
Keldeo as a mon is awesome, I love Keldeo, but I think it's just not gonna work here. If you want a Water/Fighting wallbreaker, then Urshifu is the goat.
 
hello Weirdhamster i am gonna break your team down and explain threats to your team and some possible changes
threats
:ss/hawlucha: :ss/Tapu koko: hawlucha teams destroy this team sure there not common anymore but someone who mains hawlucha teams I can see this team will struggle against them like what Athyestic said I would recommend making chansey a psydef chansey.
:ss/Tapu lele: with twisters spoon will destroy your team aswell it’s psyshock and moon blast destroys all of you team
big changes
replacing the mandibuzz -> corvinight
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
minor changes
psydef chansey set another thing is making lele s psychic -> future sight to pin opponents since you have 2 fightings Its A perfect set
Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
 

Weirdhamster

Banned deucer.
Athy wtf are you doing here
This entire set when foul play won't be doing much:

Run toxic it's cool
What would i do against substitue dragapult? I feel like i kinda need the foul play damage to dish out damage vs opponents.
The efficacy of spdef chansey isn't as good as physdef, stats don't scale like that.
If you go from 37 defense (stat) to 113 defense (stat) you have increased your defense by 3x.
If you go from 250 -> 326 spdef you only get a 1.3x increase.
EVs are meant to maximize stat potential, so put them in physdef.
Yeah, i know like nothing with EVs, ty for the help.
Gastrodon as a mon fits on specific rain/knock weak balances and stall and nothing else, it feels like you could probably do with a different bulky water. Washtom maybe?
I feel like i need the intimidation factor vs rain as i don’t have a single switchin against banded liquidation skewda, and rotom doesn’t have that good recovery with pain split which i feel like can be a big problem if you are facing rain, i’ll maybe try to use it though.
Keldeo as a mon is awesome, I love Keldeo, but I think it's just not gonna work here. If you want a Water/Fighting wallbreaker, then Urshifu is the goat.
I don’t really know, i kinda don’t like running urshifu that much, i have a similar team with gking and urshifu, but i kinda prefer this one. I also switch teams quite often and wanna test out Keldeo for a while here, but if Keldeo flops then i could change to Urshifu.
hello Weirdhamster i am gonna break your team down and explain threats to your team and some possible changes
threats
:ss/hawlucha: :ss/Tapu koko: hawlucha teams destroy this team sure there not common anymore but someone who mains hawlucha teams I can see this team will struggle against them like what Athyestic said I would recommend making chansey a psydef chansey.
Yeah, i’ve been swept by hawlucha lots of times but even if chansey would be full invested physdef, it won’t take a + 2 close combat from a hawlucha.
with twisters spoon will destroy your team aswell it’s psyshock and moon blast destroys all of you team
Yeah, i do 100% lose to not choice locked lele
placing the mandibuzz -> corvinight
Corviknight @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
I usually run Corviknight instead of Mandi but i just wanted to test out foul play here, I will most probably change to Corviknight here though.
minor changes
psydef chansey set another thing is making lele s psychic -> future sight to pin opponents since you have 2 fightings Its A perfect set
Even with physdef it has a hard time taking many physical hits.
Here is a calc for Urshifu Close combat vs chansey
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Rapid-Strike Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 780-918 (110.9 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
As you can see, it’s still an OHKO which is another reason i went for mandibuzz before (future sight immunity)
Having Spdef on Chansey also helps with the volcarona matchup, so i think my EV spread will be mixed defenses.

But thanks for the help both.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top