BH BH Central Resources Thread

MAMP

MAMP!
ok here's my vr with some brief thoughts on some mons. here's the criteria by which i've ranked the mons, i think that's important to clarify so this is a bit less arbitrary:

  • versatility: how many different sets does the pokemon have? how many viable options does it have within those sets? how many different roles can this pokemon perform?
  • effectiveness: how good is this pokemon at what it does? for a wallbreaker, how easily does it get on the field? how many things does it force out? how hard is it to switch into? for a wall, how relevant are the pokemon that it walls? how easy is it to get past with coverage? how easy is it to chip down? is it passive? etc.
  • reliability: how reliably does this pokemon perform its role? does it require luck or having a favourable matchup?
  • splashability/support requirement: how easy is this pokemon to fit onto a team? how many different team archetypes does this pokemon fit onto? how reliant is it on support from teammates? can it support a wide range of different teammates, or just a handful? how important is the role that this pokemon performs, and how many teams actually care about it?
s and a rank are ordered, b and below are just alphabetical. only dividing a and b into 2 subranks, felt a bit arbitrary splitting them into 3

S RANK — The big guys. These mons are hugely versatile, fit onto any kind of team, and do things in every matchup without requiring support. Every viable team should have at least a couple of these unless you're in some weird archetype. These are mons where it feels like you need a good reason to justify NOT running them: they're the best at what they do.

:xerneas: Xerneas
:regigigas: Regigigas
:zamazenta-crowned: Crowned Shield Zamazenta
:chansey: Imposter Chansey/Blissey
:eternatus: Eternatus

agreeing with sevag and lydia that these 5 are a clear cut above the rest of the meta atm, and i think that's best communicated by having them all in the same rank. i don't think either xern or gigas are that far above the other 3. i think some people have been down on eternatus lately, and i do think it's the weakest of the big 5, but it still fits on every team and does cool stuff every game, i can't justify ranking it lower. regen spikes sets in particular are very nasty


A RANK — These mons are really good, but compared to the S rank mons are less versatile, less splashable, or have some notable flaw that can be exploited or mandates some team support. Pokemon in this rank still typically get to do powerful stuff in every matchup, and it's hard to go wrong chucking one of these guys on your team.

+
:groudon: Groudon
:palkia: Palkia
:ho-oh: Ho-oh

-
:giratina: Altered Forme Giratina
:kyurem-black: Black Kyurem

groudon has felt so good to me lately, defensive sets especially. prankster, ice scales, and regen are all really effective etern checks that are super obnoxious to switch into, cool mon.

sevag is ranking palk quite low but i think its such a nasty breaker that offers meaningful defensive utility and is difficult to abuse. fini is real bad vs gigas + xern + etern teams and palk can get progress on it anyway with shift gear or spikes or whatever.


B RANK — B rank Pokemon are good, but have notable flaws can be abused and might limit the kinds of structures they fit onto. They can struggle to perform in some matchups, might have only a couple of viable sets, require some team support, and may be somewhat outclassed by higher ranked Pokemon.

+
:celesteela: Celesteela
:dialga: Dialga
:lunala: Lunala
:magearna: Magearna
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:spectrier: Spectrier
:yveltal: Yveltal
:zygarde-complete: Complete Zygarde

-
:blacephalon: Blacephalon
:giratina-origin: Origin Forme Giratina
:kartana: Kartana
:kyogre: Kyogre
:tapu fini: Tapu Fini
:zacian: Hero of Many Battles Zacian
:zekrom: Zekrom

almost had dialga in a-, which seems to be a very hot take from what other people are saying. regenvest is the best dialga set, very efficient etern counter/imposter nuzzler/zama nuzzler/slow pivot that can soft check gigas and some other random guys. doom desire is very powerful with almost any physical breaker, especially groudon. regen dialga can come in constantly on giratina and passive steels and make progress every time. magic bounce is also great, pretty good at stopping regi xern etern teams from spiking all over you. offensive sets like doom desire + plot are ok too. i think this is the strongest mon in b rank.

lunala is inflexible and sucks against wicked blow or spikes gigas and often gets bricked by defensive groudon. don't think it's a rank material anymore.

zekrom is kinda overrated lately, it's still a slow, ground-weak dragon-type and gets forced out easily.


C RANK — Pokemon in C rank are viable, but more niche picks. They have serious flaws. The role they perform can be pretty specific and most teams would prefer a higher ranked Pokemon. These Pokemon might be inconsistent at doing their job, and are often reliant on getting a good matchup.

:calyrex-ice: Ice Rider Calyrex
:cresselia: Cresselia
:dragapult: Dragapult
:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:lugia: Lugia
:melmetal: Melmetal :afrostar:
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:registeel: Registeel
:reshiram: Reshiram
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:zamazenta: Hero of Many Battles Zamazenta

mewtwo might be the most underexplored mon in the whole tier, its b+ in an alternate universe.


D RANK — These mons can do stuff, but they're very difficult to justify running over higher ranked mons. They're outclassed, inconsistent, perform a narrow role, and require heavy team support. Mons that I would very rarely bring to a serious match.

:darmanitan-zen: Zen Mode Darmanitan
:dusclops: Dusclops :pirate:
:garchomp: Garchomp:afrostar:
:golisopod: Golisopod
:heatran: Heatran
:kyurem-white: White Kyurem
:landorus-therian: Therian Forme Landorus
:marshadow: Marshadow
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Dusk Mane Necrozma
:pheromosa: Pheromosa
:pikachu: Pikachu
:regieleki: Regieleki
:snorlax: Snorlax
:suicune: Suicune
:thundurus-therian: Therian Forme Thundurus
:type null: Type:Null
:umbreon: Umbreon
:victini: Victini
:zeraora: Zeraora

i either love or utterly detest every mon in this rank
 

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
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thought i'd update my standings on VR now that i'm not scuffed at the game and totally not bc they're being updated like next week
(note i'm not reiterating what i said here too much, even though my opinions/reasonings may have changed)

(RISES)

:regigigas: A -> S, i really don't think i need to elaborate on this but the immense pressure this puts on the builder and the game, especially when combined with the stupid set variety it can bring, is ridiculous. clear #2 in the tier and defo should be in S with xern.
:kyurem-black: B+ -> A/A+, this thing is stupidly broken and i do not understand why it's only in B+. The offensive pressure this thing exerts is unparalleled and it has the potential to instawin a large majority of matchups simply by overpowering it's checks with repeated batterings. the difficulty of getting this in is well worth the reward, and i think this should AT LEAST be matched with palkia, if not higher. in addition, it's main drawback (being difficulty getting in) can be negated on hyper offensive teams where i think this consistently puts more enemies in boxes than probably any other mon.
:rayquaza::blacephalon: (B- -> B) these can probably both remain nearer to where they are, or rise to B at most. in my last post, i had them high up due to their great breaking power, but did not really realise that both of these are defensive liabilities that often don't offer the same reward as another alternative like kyub does. whilst their offensive presence can never be ignored, and possess the ability to make life hell for unprepped teams (which warrant a rise imo), the dependency on matchup and general frailty limit these in comparison to others, with which you often have greater instant power and the ability to severely limit checking options.
:yveltal: B- -> B/B+, the utility and surprising bulk of this mon, combined with great STABs and basically unique access to STAB knock, make it a good choice for a mon that fits a variety of roles. it can throw around it's defences whilst still maintaining offensive presence, or still present a damage threat if defensive. no-one will be surprised that xern being the dog's bollocks holds this back, but i think it should be at least on par or above the other flying types.
:celesteela: B- -> B/B+, very similar to the above. being a bulky wincon is always appreciated and has the most bulk of the flyers to throw about, whilst also offering some great defensive utility.
:melmetal: C -> B-, this thing is bulky as shit and one of the purest physical walls in the tier, being one of the most useful physical checks to basically everything except moldy band attackers. it's passivity is similar to solgaleo's in that it's strong defensive profile somewhat negates it, but this passivity holds it back from rising up further. in addition, it is vulnerable to hazard variants of most attackers such as gigas. the strong anchor is also not to be understated.
:registeel: C -> B-, as much as it pains me to say it, this thing isn't bad. due to the pure steel typing and great natural bulk, it's niche is that of a bulky passive wall and it fills that well. it's bounded from going any higher in that, unless you're running entrainment or something dodgy, you give away far too many opportunities for the enemy as would be desirable.

:nihilego: UR -> D/C, a unique choice for a special wall in that it's rare poison typing lets it eat fairy attacks for breakfast. rock typing lets you use sand stream over scales, which gives a three-fold advantage in sand chip, boosted shore up healing (since enemies are likely to spread the recovery moves they use to aid against imprison, so they are likely to have only 1 or 2 shore up users whereas your whole team can stack them) and the sp.def advantage for rock types, making you a surprisingly bulky wall (adapt etern's core enforcer doesn't even break 30, on an unresisted target). the very small attack stat of 99 lets you limit sap healing, with nihilego's high base 127 sp.atk you aren't particularly passive, and the speed tier is very nice for outpacing everything below base 100. the only real limitations of this mon are enemy coverage options and the very low phys def, leaving you pretty vulnerable to xerneas rends coming in and against enemy zamas if you don't carry a pivot move. despite these, i think it still warrants a spot on the VR.

(DROPS)

:tapu fini: A- -> B/B-, probably the hottest take on the list but i think this plays very poorly into the current meta. offensive palkia is at a low, bounce is in vogue and the heavy emphasis on physically-oriented balance all put tapu fini in a very precarious position as it's main PH set is heavily limited against most teams. all you're likely to use this for is either on heavy stall or as a glue palkia check/improof (particularly against shift gear variants, thanks me again for destroying ladder for the 7th consecutive month).
:chansey::blissey: (IMPOSTER SCARF/BOOTS) A -> D/UR, please explain to me how these are viable. boots you would barely be able to make a case for, let alone scarf which accomplishes nothing against any team since either they're hard improofed (made easier by your lock) or are bellyburden so they just go first anyway. i do not see these being useful anytime soon.
:reshiram: B- -> C, why is this thing here again? like, what does it actually run? scales i guess, but then you just get pivoted on like every other scales wall and also don't even check eternatus that well? i've never seen anyone except city use this well and no-one's recent posts here even have it above C so i think it moves down.
:landorus-therian: C -> D, the age of 0-utility breakers is wearing thin and this is one of the first casualties, mainly due to the inferior damage output compared to other breakers and absence of defensive utility (even kart has serviceable phys bulk). i also haven't seen anyone using this in months.
:golisopod: C -> D, the compounded ice/ground resist is the only reason you will ever use this, and there's better options if you're concerned about losing to kyub (and even then, bolt strike simply being an option means you're walking on eggshells). it's far too passive and far too weak outside of these resistances to have significant impact on games where non-bolt kyurem and non-pfang offensive groudon aren't factors.
:kyurem-white: D -> UR, can we please put this thing out of it's misery.
:urshifu-rapid-strike::doublade::aegislash::slowking-galar::swampert::steelix: D -> UR, i currently don't really see a reason to use any of these. they either have their niches filled by better options, or those niches died out a while ago.

(JUST WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEM)
:kartana: i'm honestly not sure what to do with this. it's strength is undeniable, but the relatively poor attacking type in steel, absence of special bulk and lack of defensive utility make it's position a bit shaky. whether or not this enough to move it, i don't know.
:snorlax: the main reason people use this is as a more specially bulky gigas that can underspeed every core. however, it lacks the offensive pressure that gigas does and i've found people are relying less on core to limit gigas as of late. i think D is fair.
:suicune: it's a good bulky water that i've seen toss all people use. it works great as a kyurem check whilst not being relatively dead weight like golisopod, but suffers similar issues with bolt strike coverage. the good mixed bulk also lets it firm a few neutral hits in a pinch, even out-recovering some pixi xerns. however, being a physical wall that doesn't resist normal isn't tremendous atm, and the things it does wall are waning.
:regieleki: does anyone unironically use this? the plot galv/bb set never took off afaik and it's sort of just sat in D with not much to show for it. could possibly drop to UR.
:mewtwo: it's been said already but i think people haven't used this enough to properly gauge how good it is. despite being one of the only ways to offensively pressure eternatus, it is limited in most other aspects such as the average attacking type and annoying-to-improof offensive sets.
:ferrothorn: i'm torn on this one. on the one hand, it checks balance staples fairly well. on the other, it """""checks""""" those staples. it's not very reliable, or bulky, and similar to the nihilego discussed above it has severe coverage issues (especially given it doesn't even wall gigas that well and xern with fire coverage is a viable option). i think C is a fair placement but i wouldn't be surprised if it begins to tumble.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
With the regular season BH games done in OMPL now, here are some more thoughts on the VR.
Here's the top 10 used mons through seven weeks.
Pokemon​
# of Uses​
:Xerneas:Xerneas​
46​
:Regigigas:Regigigas​
38​
:Zamazenta-Crowned:Zamazenta-Crowned​
28​
:Chansey::Blissey:Imposter​
25​
:Groudon:Groudon​
20​
:Eternatus:Eternatus​
19​
:Ho-Oh:Ho-Oh​
18​
:Zygarde-Complete:Zygarde-Complete​
16​
:Lunala:Lunala:Celesteela:Celesteela​
11​
:Yveltal:Yveltal​
10​
I don't think anyone will be surprised by the top three or even five mons here. Regi/Xern has been the most popular offensive core ever since Zacian-C got fully banned and the usage reflects that. On paper, Zama-C checks them both so it naturally comes right behind them in usage. I was kinda surprised by how much usage Imposter got, given that most players in this tour (should) bring well improofed teams, but Toxic Orb Imposter was a very popular pick in these games. The real surprises to me here were Zyg-C and Yveltal getting a fair amount of usage. These are two mons that everyone seems to write off due to Xern and Glance being everywhere, yet here they are.

The top mons are definitely top heavy, which made a lot of the teams look similar. There was still enough variation, IMO, to keep things interesting despite all the paralysis that was being spread. Just outside of the top 10 were mons like Giratina, Dialga, Palkia, and surprisingly Melmetal had a resurgence in usage and put in some nice work as a Prankster and Regenerator.

There was also quite low usage for some B and B- ranked mons like Tapu Fini, Kyu-B, Magearna, Reshiram, and Zekrom. Spectrier, a mon people have been raving about, got used only three times and was on the losing side each time. Kartana and Rayquaza were each only used one time.

All of the mons shown below got a combined total of zero uses. This is honestly pretty surprising, especially looking at Registeel, Zacian, and Zamazenta. Even Golisopod, Blacephalon, Pheromosa, and Victini are somewhat common for people who were playing in this tour but none of them showed up (although I did have Victini in one of my rough draft teams for playing MAMP). Maybe this is a sign that some mons like Kyu-W, Doublade, Steelix, and Swampert can finally be removed.
:Blacephalon: :Golisopod: :Landorus-Therian: :Pheromosa: :Registeel: :Suicune: :Chansey: :Doublade: :Garchomp: :Kyurem-White: :Regieleki: :Slowking-Galar: :Steelix: :Swampert: :Thundurus-Therian: :Umbreon: :Urshifu: :Victini: :Zacian: :Zamazenta:
 
VR UPDATE!!
Here we detail, pokemon that rose, fell, stayed where they are, and either left of joined the VR. And then you can see what the final VR looks like now.

:Xerneas: Xerneas S → S
:Eternatus: Eternatus A+ → A+
:Chansey::Blissey: Imposter A+ → A+
:Groudon: Groudon A- → A-
:Dialga: Dialga B → B
:Kartana: Kartana B → B
:Kyogre: Kyogre B → B
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane B- → B-
:Rayquaza: Rayquaza B- → B-
:Reshiram: Reshiram B- → B-
:Cresselia: Cresselia C → C
:Darmanitan-Zen: Darmanitan-Zen C → C
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn C → C
:Golisopod: Golisopod C → C
:Registeel: Registeel C → C
:Chansey: Chansey D → D
:Doublade: Doublade D → D
:Garchomp: Garchomp D → D
:Dusclops: Dusclops D → D
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White D → D
:Marshadow: Marshadow D → D
:Regieleki: Regieleki D → D
:Umbreon: Umbreon D → D
:Victini: Victini D → D
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta D → D
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian D → D

Xerneas maintains its status as the best pokemon in the metagame. Even though the metagame has very much adapted to it, and it won’t usually break or seem powerful on preview. It is able to very effectively force in switches, and also applied immense pressure throughout the team building process. Its impact in game might not always be immediete, but its effect over the course of a game is undeniable.

:Regigigas: Regigigas A → A+
:Ho-oh: Ho-oh A- → A
:Lunala: Lunala B → A-
:Zygarde-Complete: Zygarde-Complete B- → A-
:Celesteela: Celesteela B- → B+
:Magearna: Magearna B- → B
:Yveltal: Yveltal B- → B
:Zekrom: Zekrom B- → B
:Spectrier: Spectrier D → B
:Zacian: Zacian D → B
:Giratina-Origin: Giratina-Origin D → B-
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon C → B-
:Calyrex-Ice: Calyrex-Ice C → B-
:Melmetal: Melmetal C → B-
:Dragapult: Dragapult D → C
:Heatran: Heatran D → C
:Lugia: Lugia D → C
:Mewtwo: Mewtwo D → C
:Snorlax: Snorlax D → C
:Type Null: Type Null D → C

Spectrier has shot up the rankings, due to its devastating Choice Specs Adaptability, and Simple Nasty Plot sets. Its frailty and Regigigas’ popularity however, hold it back from being any higher.

Ho-oh has been shown to be a very good pokemon, especially with its now very popular magic guard sets, which effectively spread paralysis and deal serious damage with Brave Bird. Ho-oh is a really unique check to Xerneas, as it is able to come in and force the opponent into a more passive pokemon to check it. Its dual offensive capabilities, while still primarily being a defensive pokemon has been shown to be incredibly effective.

Zygarde-C has risen as well because of the increase in paralysis users, and its ability to blanket check many physical and special pokemon. Its regenvest set is an incredible pivoter, and its fur coat set is able to very nicely check many Regigigas sets. However, it can be pretty passive at times and die to Glacial Lance which holds it at A-.

Yveltal to some may be deserving of a higher ranking due to its unresisted Boomburst by most of the metagame, and immunity to prank Glare because of its dark typing. However, Yveltal’s typing can at times leave a lot to be desired because it can’t switch into the majority of the metagame threats. Similarly, Yveltal is prone to getting crippled at times, when it would potentially want to switch into a Defensive pokemon. It is also very much outclassed by Xerneas, along many facets (except for the Ho-oh MU) thus it is deserving of B, but could rise further if its offensive sets build up more steam.

Melmetal has risen from C to B-. The reason for its rise is due to the effective use of its regenvest and prankster sets. These sets are able to better deal with Regigigas because of Melmetal’s defensive stats. Its mono steel typing also allows for it to be a decent switch into Xerneas. However, the pokemon tends to be very passive when used, and its spdef also tends to leave a bit to be desired. Thus, it remains at B- among its steel counterparts in Solgaleo and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane.

Dragapult has proven in OMPL to be more than an easily countered gimmick. The Taunt set is very dangerous against teams that lack measures such as Prankster Glare or priority to easily force it out. It can also effectively get away with running 1 attack due to Poison Heal Regigigas being the only common Normal-type in the metagame. That said, its inability to break the majority of Magic Bounce users and lack of defensive utility hold it to C for now.

Zacian is another mon that shot up the VR ranking, from D all the way to B. It’s very high speed, and decent attack stats allows it to be a very strong late game cleaner via. Its tough claw sets. Fire (V-create) / Water (Fishious Rend) / Fairy coverage (Multi- Attack) is very strong in the current metagame, and Zacian is the best physical user of it. Zacian’s poison heal set with wisp / taunt / spirit break / coil has also been used to good effect.
However, its tough claw set has difficulty breaking past the now more popular FC Lunala and is prone to chip damage since it has no recover. It’s posion heal set as well, struggles to make progress vs. Magic Bounce, and has difficulty switching into Xerneas’ Boomburst and Regigigas’ facade. These limitations keep Zacian in B.

:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned A+ → A
:Giratina: Giratina A → A-
:Palkia: Palkia A- → B+
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini A- → B+
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black B+ → B
:Solgaleo: Solgaleo B → B-
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian C → D
:Pheromosa: Pheromosa C —> D
:Suicune: Suicune C → D

Something that some may find surprising here is the drop of Zamazenta-Crowned into A, from A+. The reason for this drop is because we believe that the metagame in general, has adapted to find ways of breaking through many of its defensive sets. Regigigas for example now has nuzzle + precipice blades to break past it. Xerneas at times will run V-create, and ground pokemon as well have become more prominent. Similarly, its most popular sets with anchor shot + thunderous kick often allow for the risen Lunala to come in freely, and thus at times it simply does not make progress. Its defensive sets aren’t ~as~ good anymore, but still incredibly strong which is why it remains in A. As far as its offensive sets too, we do not believe that they might be above “A” rank. Its most offensive prominent set in 4att tough claws, or 3 att + Swords Dance or Strength Sap are solid, however it often misses the ability to have 4 different coverage moves. For these reasons, Zamazenta-C was dropped.

Palkia also hasn’t been as strong of a pokemon in recent times, very much so hampered by the rise in paralysis. It has shown to be incredibly effective at times, however it is very easily crippled. Usage for its adaptability set has dropped, and its fur coat sets tend to be overrun by Regigigas. However, Adaptability is still very threatening, and fur coat is effective at beating pokemon such as Adaptability Groudon, thus it only dropped to B+. Tapu Fini’s viability is linked with Palkia’s and if Palkia drops Tapu Fini will most likely drop. Also, in the present metagame, Tapu Fini simply takes too much from Regigigas, Xerneas, and Eternatus leading to it being a weak point on some teams.


:Zeraora: Zeraora UR → D
:Nihilego: Nihilego UR → D
:Barraskewda: Barraskewda UR → B-

Barraskewda joins the battle! We’re not really sure why it was never on VR, but after seeing it being used 3 times in OMPL, and winning all 3 times, it surely deserves a B- rank. It will struggle to break past desolate land pokemon, and fc dragons but its speed control and braking power is very good.

:Slowking-Galar: Slowking-Galar D → UR
:Steelix: Steelix D → UR
:Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: Urshifu-Rapid-Strike D → UR

Unfortunately, these three mons have fallen out of favor, as they simply struggle to deal with or switch into many of the offensive and defensive pokemon in the present metagame.


So, here’s the VR in full. Let us know what you think of it! Was any pokemon ranked higher than you expected? Did we underrate any pokemon? Are there any pokemon not on the VR that you think we missed? Write down how you feel about it all in this thread!

S:
:Xerneas: Xerneas

A+:
:Eternatus: Eternatus
:Chansey::Blissey: Imposter
:Regigigas: Regigigas

A:
:Ho-oh: Ho-oh
:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned

A-:
:Giratina: Giratina
:Groudon: Groudon
:Lunala: Lunala
:Zygarde-Complete: Zygarde-Complete

B+:
:Palkia:
:Tapu Fini:
:Celesteela:

B:

:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
:Dialga: Dialga
:Kartana: Kartana
:Kyogre: Kyogre
:Magearna: Magearna
:Yveltal: Yveltal
:Zekrom: Zekrom
:Giratina-Origin: Giratina-Origin
:Zacian: Zacian
:Spectrier: Spectrier
B-:
:Solgaleo: Solgaleo
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:Rayquaza: Rayquaza
:Reshiram: Reshiram
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon
:Calyrex-Ice: Calyrex-Ice
:Barraskewda: Barraskewda
:Melmetal: Melmetal

C:
:Cresselia: Cresselia
:Darmanitan-Zen: Darmanitan-Zen
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:Golisopod: Golisopod
:Registeel: Registeel
:Dragapult: Dragapult
:Heatran: Heatran
:Lugia: Lugia
:Mewtwo: Mewtwo
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Type Null: Type Null:

D:
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Pheromosa: Pheromosa
:Suicune: Suicune
:Chansey: Chansey
:Doublade: Doublade
:Dusclops: Dusclops
:Garchomp: Garchomp
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White
:Regieleki: Regieleki
:Marshadow: Marshadow
:Swampert: Swampert
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian
:Umbreon: Umbreon
:Victini: Victini
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Nihilego: Nihilego
 

Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
NECROPOSTING TIME WOOOO

:regigigas: A+ -> S - most dominant thing in the meta rn. the variety of sets it can run, lack of true counters and the fact that sometimes you can just completely invalidate defensive cores because you brought the right busted coverage is absurd. there is basically no reason to not use this in one way or another.

:ho-oh: A -> A+ - hot take, STAB v-c is busted in current meta, with low giratina/psea steel usage. having your best check be 4x ice weak means shift gear v/glance pops off (mguard or desland), other standard mguard/desland sets still perform well and heavily punish steel spam / overreliance on zygc to wall everything physical. rocks are also low usage, still helps that this is the best offensive xern check.

:palkia: B- -> A- - probably biased, but it is unreasonable how many matchups you load where there just isn't a wall to this. all of it's checks are exploitable (especially by regigigas and groudon), 2 of which you barely run into except on opposing palkia teams. silly damage for something this fast and not-choice-locked, don't get parad and you're basically good. prank fini is a myth, this argument hasn't existed for almost 6 months.

:zamazenta: D -> C - it's a fast cleaner that, unlike zacian, you can actually use mid-game because it gets OHKOs. owning the best steel type is great given you outspeed it and easily firm hits, triage isn't common enough to invalidate it, partners excellently with gigas. held back by only having 1 good set (tough claws) which needs to use axel (a contact move that misses) and by xern existing, which can have pixispeed and also doesn't drop to +2 axel.

----drops----

:chansey:(boots/scarf) A+ -> UR - what jokeman has decided to keep these here? why? there are no reason to use these and haven't been for over a year.

:giratina: A- -> B+ - well it's just a man ball of bulk. it doesn't really do anything half the time, the other half you're likely getting memed on by gigas. there's not a lot that it can reliably beat anymore and giving entry to xern so easily isn't ideal, so i think it drops, especially given it has some rough weaknesses which prevent it from throwing it's bulk around things it doesn't hard wall. lunala is pretty rigid in it's sets, and also dislikes gigas, but has SNR and isn't weak to ice/fairy so has slightly less of a case for dropping.

:tapu fini: B+ -> B/B- - it's not necessary for improofing palk (you can get away with bounce ferro, which is still an unmon but has actual utility), using it without palk is really scuffed. prank sets are laughable, poison heal sets don't really function outside of stall teams and haven't for ages. i really don't see a good reason to use this on the average team.

:spectrier: B -> B-/C - i don't remember the last time i saw this do well. hella annoyed by regenvests/zygc being more common, simpleplot sets can't run lum unlike eternatus which is really rough. gigas being everywhere also doesn't help a ghost-move spammer, you can probably opt for a choice breaker that dismantles balance easier like fish or kyub.

:necrozma-dusk-mane: B- -> C - what does this do now? simplegear? drumburden doesn't exist which was it's biggest niche, there's some utility in ooze but i think that's basically it. i don't really see much of a reason to use this atm.

:golisopod: C -> D - you're using this to improof kyub, calyi and don. there's likely better options for both of these, the mon itself does basically nothing except not dying to specific threats and gets walked over by basically the entire meta. the typing is the only reason i'm not just unranking it.

:doublade::dusclops::garchomp::regieleki::marshadow::swampert::zeraora: D -> UR - i see no reason to use any of these. none except marshadow have had any use in an eternity, marsh itself lost basically it's only niche as a drummer that beats both prank and imp with triage/poltergeist.

the meta's lowkey just become more centralized since the last update so there's really not a lot that's changed, mainly just weaker things being seen less and less.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
one final vr update before the end of the gen?

RISES

:regigigas: Regigigas A+ > S
Old mate has a decent case for being the best mon in the tier. Setup Gigas is probably the most reliable wincon in the game and there are tons of ways to get the para on Zama-C, the chip on Giratina, and so on that it needs to just win on the spot. Watch any recent tour game with 2 Gigas's (Gigii?) in it and there's like an 80% chance that the game ends with one of them on the field. It increasingly feels difficult to justify bringing a team without this guy.

:zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta-C A > A+
Don't think Zama-C should have ever dropped. This mon does basically everything and goes on every team. Its only flaw is that it is susceptible to paralysis, a status that started getting spammed in large part because Zama-C is so prevalent and so hard to beat otherwise.

:groudon: Groudon A- > A
I love to switch this big red man in against the dog and then click whatever button I want

:kyurem-black: Kyurem-B B > B+
Glacial Lance

:dialga: Dialga B > B+
Me when I switch Dialga into Giratina or whatever and my opponent has to figure out how to switch into Core Enforcer/Doom Desire/Nuzzle/U-turn (I have 3 fucked up wallbreakers in the back) (I get to do this multiple times per game):
tumblr_ngfmrtIwpj1u5ctzlo1_540.png


:yveltal: Yveltal B > B+
I've really been getting into Triage Yveltal lately. Life Orb sets are so good at stealing wins if they get a free turn with just a little bit of chip on certain key Pokemon. It's self-sufficient and effective in so many matchups; if it didn't need such specific improofs I would be chucking Triage Yveltal on like every team as a glue mon. Compared to Celesteela, the extra bulk, power, and lack of V-create weakness are all huge. An important feature of this mon is that it generally wins the 1v1 against PH Xern if they switch into Nasty Plot, especially if they have a tiny bit of chip. Love pairing it with Doom Desire support so Pixi Xern can't switch in on the turn you set up and force you out. CB has caught on a bit recently too, and while I've never ran that personally it has been very scary to play against.

:rayquaza: Rayquaza B- > B
Also a really cool Triage guy. No good team has a way to beat this mon long-term, so having Ray on your team just gives you inevitability in any sort of balance mirror. The knowledge that every free U-turn you get could result in Ray coming in, forcing a switch, and making progress forces your opponent to make predicts, and that's always great for you. Aerilate is great too, and every Ray likes paralysis to improve the Etern matchup, it wants to force as many switches as possible.

:ferrothorn: Ferrothorn C > B-
I can hear city booing at this one from across the Pacific, but I find Magic Bounce Ferrothorn to be such a solid glue on fat balance teams. The way it stops progress from passive Spikes Xern/Gigas/Regen Eterns is amazing, and it makes me feel so much safer against Palkia, which is normally so tough to beat long-term for any Zama-C/bulky dragon/bulky Ho-Oh/Imposter type build. Needs some support because you are in a bit of a pickle if Gigas SDs on Ferro switching in, but nothing does its job quite as well. Fur Coat isn't unusable either.

:zamazenta: Zamazenta D > C
I think D is underselling this mon a bit. Being faster than Zama-C and able to OHKO it is a relevant niche that gives Zama-H a place on certain para-less VoltTurn teams, and I've found its role as a revenge killer for SD Gigas and weakened Etern to be quite helpful.

DROPS

:eternatus: Eternatus A+ > A
I don't like how much Etern sucks against para. It's not like Zama-C where it's annoyed by para but still mostly gets to do its thing, a lot of Etern sets just die instantly to Nuzzle and it's so annoying to play around. I've come to the conclusion that with the current popularity of Nuzzle, sets like Regen Spikes without Specs are kinda just bad. Once it's paralysed it can't switch into anything and doesn't force many things out, so it doesn't actually make progress that effectively. A ton of the mons it would like to force out, like Giratina and Xerneas, can afford to just take the hit and paralyse you. I've been swinging back to more offensive Eternatus sets but they feel inconsistent, matchup dependent, and prediction reliant. Not finding space for this on teams as much as I once did. I do love to Trick some Black Sludges tho

:lunala: Lunala A- > B+
FC feels increasingly inflexible and easy to take advantage of. I don't like that I have to choose between losing to PH Xern or having my strongest option vs Gigas be Entrainment for 12% chip. This gets Spiked on, hates switching into hazards, hates Nuzzle, and gets owned by Zygarde-C and fat Groudon (unless you run Glare which still loses to a ton of Zygarde-C sets and suddenly means you lose to Bounce Zama-C). Also all the kids are running Wicked Blow on Gigas and offensive Zama-C and this sucks against that. SNR is fine but neither of Lunala's sets are A-rank material atm.

:tapu fini: Tapu Fini B+ > C
Gigas switching into Tapu Fini Baneful Bunker feels like getting kicked in the head. This Pokemon doesn't do anything

:celesteela: Celesteela B+ > B
Steela's fine but the Volt Switch weakness and lack of bulk really hurts. Defensive sets on this are largely outmoded, they match up so poorly against the Gigas, Xern, Etern, and Zama-C sets that people run nowadays, so I feel like Steela is largely relegated to offensive sets. These face competition from Yveltal and such and I don't know if Steela stacks up that well tbh. Steela is versatile and fits easily onto teams, and I can't deny that the things Triage Steela does to stall are truly unspeakable (despite the rise in Ho-Oh being really bad for it), but all of its sets feel pretty flawed and tough to justify currently.

:solgaleo: Solgaleo B- > C
Does nothing

:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane B- > C
Wholly outclassed defensively, can't run Drum anymore, so its only relevant set is Shift Gear. That set is inconsistent, difficult to position, and often outclassed. I don't think Liquid Ooze is real.

:golisopod: Golisopod C > D
Does nothing

:type null: Type:Null C > D
Does nothing

:swampert: Swampert D > UR
Really does nothing

:nihilego: Nihilego D > UR
I know this does something, but I don't think its enough to ever be worth actually putting on a team. Passive, inconsistent, whatever
 
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Tea Guzzler

forever searching for a 10p freddo
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hi hello yes i'm bumping this so we can maybe fit in another VR update if everyone just dumps their thoughts in the next 2 weeks
(also i have a few additional VR nominations, everything in my last post still applies though)

:kyurem-black: B -> B+ - there's not much in the tier that you have to respect getting in as much as this. ability to secure OHKOs and easily end games after a shift gear can't be understated.
:yveltal: B -> B+ - good defensive utility, good set variety, STAB knock. setup TC, spin aerilate, mixed aerilate and triage are all threatening in their own right and it doesn't generally require large team assistance to do stuff.
:barraskewda: B- ->B - at worst it cripples something with band and gives free pivot options, at best you load into a team that gets 6-0d by it. i think this alone makes it worth raising but i don't think it can go much higher due to the lack of significant defensive utility.

:giratina-origin: B -> B-/C - if you're looking for a ghost then chances are lunala is just better, since fc still loses to SD/wicked regigigas, its weak to ice and doesn't have psychic STAB for stuff like stored power. QD adapt sets are niche at best and this doesn't do much else.
:magearna: B -> B- - i see the use cases for this, but they are incredibly limited and i think in 99% of circumstances you're better off just using yveltal if you want an -atespinner and are already using ph xern.
:solgaleo: B- -> C/D - everything this wants to do is done better by something else
:lugia: C -> UR - why was this ever even here lmao
 
Some of my VR oppinions

S Rank
:Xerneas:Xerneas (Stays, still as good as it's always been)

A Rank
A+
:Eternatus: Eternatus (A+ --> A+, I think eternatus is quite good here, it has a huge pressure on team building, but doesn't come off as "best mon in the game" in-game. Still hates paralysis, and lum berry simpleplot etern can get stooped by certain pranks / regenvesters)
:Chansey: Imposter
:Regigigas: Regigigas (A+ --> S, the diversity, and efficacy of its sets are vast. It is just as good as Xern, and can at times single handedly win games)
Imposter Viability Rankings

A
:Ho-oh: Ho-oh
:Zamazenta-Crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned (A --> A, mmm, I'm in a toss up between being A and A+. On one hand its defensive sets are solid and its offensive sets are effective. On the other hand, its defensive sets can be extremely passive and lead to nothing vs. some ghost pokemon, or steel / fighting resists. Personally, I don't believe any of its sets go beyond A, even though it have many of them.)

A-
:Giratina: Giratina (A- --> A-, Even though it's dropped a bit in usage, I still believe that Giratina is an incredible glue mon, and a great contingency. It's magic bounce sets are great vs. more passive pokemon, and it offers strong scouting, and a really great switch-in to Zama-C.
:Groudon: Groudon (A- --> A-, I feel like Groudon is quite good here. It's prankster sets are decent, it's offensive sets are strong. I would say teams tend to be naturally prepared for it, but it can occasionally change the tide of a battle by itself)
:Lunala: Lunala (A- --> B+, I've never been a huge fan of fc lunala, the set which I believe brought it up to A-. I feel as if Nuzzle + Hex fc sets can be pp stalled quite easily, and its inability to pivot, and susceptibility to chip, makes it less effective than it once was.
:Zygarde-Complete: Zygarde-Complete (A- --> A-, Zygarde-C is fat, but still hates glance)

B Rank
B+
:Palkia: Palkia
:Tapu Fini: Tapu Fini (B+ --> B. Seen less usage lately, and is susceptible to getting chipped. Hates that Regigigas is so good in the current meta)
:Celesteela: Celesteela (Even though it's gotten less usage I think its regenvest sets have been shown to be really strong to counter eternatus, and its triage sets are still a potent wincon)
B
:Kyurem-Black: Kyurem-Black
:Dialga: Dialga
:Kartana: Kartana
:Kyogre: Kyogre
:Magearna: Magearna
:Yveltal: Yveltal (B --> B+. Still weak to Xerneas, but Aerilate is quite good in the current meta, and its neutrality to anchor shot, and immunity to thousand waves makes it a really nice pick. Additionally, being able to hit Ho-oh neutrally, and avoiding spikes (even at the cost of sr) is great. )
:Zekrom: Zekrom
:Giratina-Origin: Giratina-Origin
:Zacian: Zacian
:Spectrier: Spectrier

B-
:Solgaleo: Solgaleo
:Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:Rayquaza: Rayquaza
:Reshiram: Reshiram
:Blacephalon: Blacephalon
:Calyrex-Ice: Calyrex-Ice
:Barraskewda: Barraskewda
:Melmetal: Melmetal

C Rank
:Cresselia: Cresselia
:Darmanitan-Zen: Darmanitan-Zen
:Ferrothorn: Ferrothorn
:Golisopod: Golisopod
:Registeel: Registeel
:Dragapult: Dragapult
:Heatran: Heatran (C --> B. Has had a really big rise recently. Am absolutely great check to pixilate Xerneas, and occasionally Regigigas. Regenvest sets are IN rn)
:Lugia: Lugia (C --> D. Has not seen any good usage lately, and hates regigigas)
:Mewtwo: Mewtwo
:Snorlax: Snorlax
:Type Null: Type Null:

D Rank
:Landorus-Therian: Landorus-Therian
:Pheromosa: Pheromosa
:Suicune: Suicune
:Chansey: Chansey
:Doublade: Doublade
:Dusclops: Dusclops
:Garchomp: Garchomp
:Kyurem-White: Kyurem-White
:Regieleki: Regieleki
:Marshadow: Marshadow
:Swampert: Swampert
:Thundurus-Therian: Thundurus-Therian
:Umbreon: Umbreon
:Victini: Victini
:Zamazenta: Zamazenta (D --> C. I think poison heal / touch claws are decent sets, and deserving of a higher tier)
:Zeraora: Zeraora
:Nihilego: Nihilego

I feel like everything else feels decent where it is. Nit picking could be done, but I think in the end it's all quite subjective and very fine margins.
 

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