Metagame BDSP UU (Tier Shifts @ Post #107)

[ChrystalFalchion]

pomfpomfpluff Thanks for the catch, have edited.

So this post isn't a one liner, I want to expand on an underrated mon in this meta:

Mew @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Focus Blast / Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball

Nasty Plot Mew is a great wallbreaker and late game cleaner, owing to its incredible coverage. The moves I listed are the ones I've personally run, but really you could use just about anything depending on what threats your team needs gone. Psychic gets STAB. Focus Blast hits Dark and Steel types, 2HKOing Snorlax and Umbreon at +2. Fire Blast trades hits on those two for hits on Metagross and Bronzong. Thunderbolt zaps bulky Water types and also gets a KO on defensive Moltres. Energy Ball trades hits on Flying types for hitting Ground types instead. For best results, pair with Sticky Web users like Shuckle and Smeargle, and strong anti offense mons like Scarf Raikou, Porygon-Z and Life Orb Sneasel.

Calcs

+2 252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 312-370 (79.1 - 93.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Focus Blast vs. 176 HP / 152+ SpD Snorlax: 382-451 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 312-367 (92.3 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 720-850 (203.3 - 240.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Expert Belt Mew Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Mew Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Swampert: 328-390 (81.1 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Mew Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 377-445 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

 

[Pabloaram]

The alpha state of the tier end in Janaury? Can we ban mons like Mence after Janaury or we have to wait another month?

 

[madvorak]

Oh. I thought Salamence was going to get banned already in January! I will enjoy playing it for one more month, then.

What did you mean by "mons like Mence"? My impression was the Salamence was the only Pokémon that needed to get banned. The omnipresence of Donphan isn't bad for the metagame IMO.

 

[Eve]

As it is January, UU is no longer in Alpha! We've also seen a small but very impactful tier shift, with us losing Donphan and gaining Aerodactyl. The elephant will be missed.

With UU leaving Alpha, tiering action can commence. We've put together a small council of dedicated and proven players, those being myself, Twilight (co-TL), Toy Time King, and 6Roggenrolas. We'd love to have an odd number of council members to break voting ties in the future, so we'll be keeping an eye out for good candidates.

Now for what you've all been waiting for, the first quickban:

Salamence has been quickbanned from BDSP UU.
Salamence is simply out of place in a UU starved for solid answers, and constrains teambuilding significantly with its plethora of powerful sets. This ban shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. We also voted on two other hot topics, Cresselia and Sun. We unanimously voted to not ban Cresselia, and all voted to abstain on voting on Sun currently- it is certainly a powerful playstyle, and we're interested to see how it develops in a post-Salamence tier.

Happy laddering!

Voting Sheet

 

[Twilight]

I don't think many are too surprised about the Salamence ban given how ridiculously strong it was alongside the flexibility of its sets. Regarding Cresselia, I don't think this Pokemon is even that consistent as a Calm Mind sweeper. It also doesn't fit onto too many playstyles without sapping momentum. The only teams I think Cresselia outright wins against are just unprepared ones and if they struggle against Cresselia then they probably don't fare much better against Mew, which I think is just a better Pokemon overall. This was my reasoning for voting DnB. Sun is something that needs more exploration before a potential nerf needs to be looked at. I have experience using it with different cholo breakers such as Victreebel, Venusaur, and Shiftry. Out of all three, Victreebel was the most consistent one thanks to having access to Fire coverage. It is pretty funny to see Torkoal being UU by usage but none of the Chloro mons made it. If you feel sun is too strong of a playstyle then do share your opinions on the matter.

The ones we lost

With Salamence gone I expect Flygon will become the most used Dragon-type alongside Kingdra, hopefully. Flygon provides similar utility while having the flexibility to do it all. Gyarados might see more usage as a replacement DD Moxie user, though it won't nearly be as effective as Mence was.

Losing Donphan kinda sucks given it was one of our best removers + Knock Off users. This will open up the door for more bulky Ground-types though. Flygon gets a lot better with one less defensive answer that could threaten it with Ice Shard. Metagross becomes a bit scarier as an offensive breaker so perhaps Swampert picks up in response. Curious to see what effect it has.

Gained

Aerodactyl

Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack / Taunt / Defog
- Roost

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Aeordactyl is interesting and might fair okay as an offensive breaker due to how strong EdgeQuake is. You probably want Wing Attack to remove Heracross otherwise Taunt and Defog are good utility options. It can be an offensive check to Entei, which is very nice. I can also see it being a suicide lead for offense teams. Premier Speed stat with rocks + Taunt. Aside from that I can't see any other set really working that well.

Pokemon UU by usage that might fall off

| 40 | Magneton | 4.808% |
Even when there is no Hidden Power or a Steel Flying Pokemon it somehow creeps its way into UU. I do chalk a lot of this up to that one Ambipom team, though I acknowledge it has a minor niche. However, I don't see this maintaining the usage to stay UU when it isn't all that reliable at trapping any of the tier's Steel-types.

| 32 | Ditto | 5.619% |
I am quite surprised to see Ditto be UU by usage. There is definitely the appeal given its ability to reverse sweep a lot of the dangerous sweepers we had/have like DD Salamence and NP Mew. It will be interesting to see if it manages to maintain the usage or falls off a bit as the Pokemon tends to do in most generations.

| 28 | Granbull | 6.639% |
With Salamence gone I imagine this will fall off quite hard. It'll still have a notable niche as a Fighting resist with Intimidate though it will have a harder time answering Flygon imo. Even if it is one of our few Fairy-types I do expect it will drop off.

Under the Radar

| 42 | Zapdos | 4.486% |

Zapdos

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Defog / Drill Peck
- U-turn
- Roost

EV spread just makes it faster than Heracross.

Zapdos was pretty close but didn't quite make the cut. I wasn't a fan of it before but I've come around to its typing just being a godsend. It is one of the best Fighting resists in the tier and provides both momentum and removal in one slot. People have also been running Drill Peck to OHKO Heracross.

| 45 | Nidoqueen | 4.159% |

NidoQ

Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast / Ice Beam
- Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock

I'd say I am surprised its usage was so high but it was also on that Ambipom team too I believe. I actually think Nidoqueen is an excellent Ground-type that people should consider using more. The higher bulk makes it a solid fit on bulky offense teams that want it to better check stuff like Heracross and Raikou while still being a powerful wallbreaker. I definitely recommend people continue using it.

| 54 | Sharpedo | 3.408% |

Sharpedo

Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Liquidation
- Crunch
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Sharpedo is probably one of the strongest anti-offense tools in the tier thanks to Speed Boost. Dark resists are also fairly low so it is pretty easy for this Pokemon to muscle through most stuff once weakened. I primarily use the set provided above but I have seen others use Hydro Pump with more SpA investment.

| 55 | Rhyperior | 3.401% |

Rhyperior

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Megahorn / Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock

The loss of Donphan sucks but with the premier bulky Ground-type gone we might see this Pokemon pick up a lot more. Rhyperior is overlooked despite being a very strong Pokemon and Solid Rock making it bulkier than it should be. I personally like Megahorn to catch Mowtom, Cresselia, etc. Rhyperior is one of the few Entei pivots that isn't a bulky Water-type and is the sturdiest Flying resist we honestly have. I hope people start using it more.

| 61 | Kingdra | 2.881% |

Kingdra

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sniper / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Kingdra @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Substitute

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Agility

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam / Surf / Dragon Pulse
- Rain Dance

Okay, Kingdra being so low in usage is honestly criminal given how ridiculous it is. I've been using it a fair amount and have tried each of these given sets and not one of them has felt like a complete letdown. Literally nothing hard walls this Pokemon (Besides Shedinja) and it is very easy for your conventional check to be turned into fodder for it. Choice Specs is just a deadly wallbreaker for the STAB combo alone and you can run it without rain easily. Dragon Dance sets turn bulky Water-types into setup fodder behind a Substitute and once this thing gets going it is pretty easy for it to sweep. Critdra is mostly a HO exclusive set because dual screens help it get that two-turn setup opportunity + the lack of Knock Off makes it more effective. Against slower teams, it only needs the one boost before it starts critting through everything. You can then run Rain Dance on its conventional special breaker set so it can be a potential wincon late-game while still being a good wallbreaker early. LO isn't mandatory but the damage boost is very nice. There are other sets maybe worth exploring like mixed or banded sets but I really do recommend people use Kingdra more. I strongly believe it is one of the best offensive Pokemon in the tier.

There are other ones that I could go into more detail about like Weezing but these are the main ones that stand out to me. Thanks for reading if you got this far. Have fun and good luck in the new year!

 

[Wanka]

this shit is chaos but its fun.

Mence leaving was actually kinda epic for sun so I kinda threw this together on a whim but it seems ok. Magneton prolly isn't great but its a steel type that clicks volt switch which is neat. I didn't really have any trapping purposes in mind, just liked the idea of fast steel type pivot. Beam on mew is probably still ok but no mence gave me the impression that I could be fine with just psy stab. Threw volt switch as well to have another form of grabbing momentum for vic and zard. Vic and zard are pretty straightforward, scarf solar power mon with mixed growth vic breaks the majority of this meta. Torkoal just role compresses and I chucked 3 attacks gastro as my last. Made it spD like I don't really know how I feel about this mon since it lost some of its utility, but for some reason a fat water ground as my last felt ok on sun.

I think this tier does have some potential? Things still have to thin out and jazz in terms of usage but I like a nature of a fast paced tier like this. Even though Offense usually runs a meta like this in the early stages, I've actually seen some pretty neat stall/semi stall builds while laddering and they're a bitch to play against. Quagsire seems lowkey hot in the meta along with shit like sableye to form some stall cores. Mence leaving was defitiely lit tho and I'm def gunna be playing this some more.

Hide

Torkoal @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Lava Plume
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn

Magneton @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Sunny Day

Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Flamethrower

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 240 HP / 156 Def / 112 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
- Psychic
- Volt Switch

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 188 Atk / 68 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Growth
- Power Whip
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Scald

bing bong

 

[KaenSoul]

I have been improving the team to try to top the ladder but stopped at top 4 because stall feels like cheating right now, and want to try some different teams now
Actually went back and become top1
alt stlksv3

Hide

If anyone wonder, stlksv3 comes from stall-kaensoul-version3

Team, free for anyone to use

https://pokepast.es/6e368f080793c0be

Made Chansey SpD now to handle Pory-Z better, may chance back to phy because specs yanmega deal a lot with u-turn, people should use that mon more, but in the other hand, it takes around 20% from Bug buzz, around 30% from specs exploud, and has a high chance to not get 2hko by +2 LO Adap Pory-Z without rocks.
Im using Forretress instead of Zapdos now as without donphan a lot of people have no idea on how to control hazards, allowing spikes to deal a lot of damage over time, and thanks to overcoat is a great Roserade counter.
Weezing now has Flamethrower to prevent SD Guts Hera from just running over it with facade, as neu-gas isnt enough for that, it also surprise kills plenty of forretress.
Taunt Umbreon because is a serious team now and helps in the stall mirror a lot.
CM ResTalk Spiritomb is now the wincon, as Slowbro wasnt as important without mence, it has a pretty easy time against Tentacruel and Forretress and the few other random spinners i found along the way, pressure helps against defog but didnt see many defogers outside of flygon and crobat.
Quagsire is still Quagsire, you just love it.

I may add some other replays later, didnt remember to save them until i was at 1600 elo and most games appear as private or something in the replay thing, im too old to understand this
VS sun https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspuu-1484173032
This what happens when you dont gave facade to hera (360! turns) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspuu-1486134109
Also SD, facade doesnt do much without SD https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspuu-1486492897

----------------------------------------------------------------

Now as counterplay against stall, because a lot of people in ladder just prefer to tell me how much they want to kill me and everyone i love instead of asking on how to improve their match up:

Specs Yanmega, NP Pory-Z and SD Guts Heracross have a really easy time at breaking apart any defensive core.
0- Atk Yanmega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Chansey: 277-327 (39.3 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 306-360 (86.4 - 101.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 188-222 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (guts off)
+2 252 SpA Silk Scarf Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Chansey: 300-354 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Porygon-Z Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 123-145 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Taunt Crobat is great at preventing the team from making progress and preventing healing moves, one of my loses was because of someone using crobat + spinblocker + spike stacking, the team just cant kill crobat.

Sub QD Venomoth has an easy time against most stall teams if they lack phazing.

CM Gardevoir with taunt works really well, just dont be like some people than let Chansey slowly kill it, use taunt to prevent healing and with help of a hazard you should eventually win. Gallade is also really cool, im not sure on how viable it is to put on any team, but i faced someone a few times who had Gallade and it was really hard to play around, CC just deals too much to Quagsire and can set up on non-wow/sball Spiritomb.

Nidoking only need its stab + ice beam to cover most of the tier, use that final slot to break Chansey/Umbreon, i didnt see Focus Blast a single time, you can even use rash nature and put Focus Punch or Poison Jab if you fear missing that much, PJab deal enough damage to kill chansey with some prior damage without investment
4 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 294-347 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

The now king of ru is pretty good at wallbreaking here, is still early to say if it is good outside of the stall match up but it could work
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Chansey on a critical hit: 297-351 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon on a critical hit: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking on a critical hit: 285-337 (72.3 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Amane Misa]

I like this tier a lot so here's an updated personal viability ranking of all the UU-by usage Pokemon (+ Victreebel which is RU). I won't go into too many details on every Pokemon because I am short on time.

S (I don't think there is anything that's really centralizing right now but if I had to pick the absolute best Pokemon it'd be them):

- it's pretty insane right now. the best Fighting-type is Heracross who is chipped relatively fast thanks to burn, its average speed tier, and defensive typing.

- please don't use passive do-nothing Mew sets.

A:

- my second favorite spinner. Roar is great with hazard stacking teams which are really good right now.

- can burn its checks and Extreme Speed is nice for anti-cheese.

- my favorite glue.

- it's a good Pokemon but it also has the unique ability to check Flygon and sun.

- my favorite SR setter. CB is also nice but Leftovers is amazing for it.

- my go-to spinblocker on every team I have Spikes on.

- breaks stall relatively easily and is nearly impossible to switch into.

- my go-to Spikes setter.

- my favorite spinner.

- I know it was just voted on but I haven't seen it doing anything too impressive... but it might just be my fault for using Metagross and Mismagius on every team.

B: (won't go into too many details because they're relatively one-dimensional)

C: (same as above)

D: (will explain why to not use them)

- ok I won't explain that one.

- yes it has a nice movepool but in practice, it rarely ever gets to check anything or get hazards without taking a lot of damage.

- every other defensive viable Water-type offers something (Blastoise - spin, Tentacruel - spin, knock off and toxic spikes removal) and this just sits and tries to spam Haze to not be a setup fodder.

- setup fodder.

- I haven't seen this at all and I generally think that Rotom-Mow is better but I might be wrong on that one.

 

[Twilight]

We have added some sample teams on the first page of this thread. We are looking for some submissions as it says at the bottom of the post to add a bit more variance with the playstyles so if you have anything to share please do (Make sure it isn't a one-liner or anything though). I was only able to reach out to a handful of people to provide teams so you have quite a few from me for the time being

 

[Wanka]

We have added some sample teams on the first page of this thread. We are looking for some submissions as it says at the bottom of the post to add a bit more variance with the playstyles so if you have anything to share please do (Make sure it isn't a one-liner or anything though). I was only able to reach out to a handful of people to provide teams so you have quite a few from me for the time being

Feel like cress should be highlighted in a sample and this is something that I've been kinda brainlessly using on ladder. I've been able to break into the 1500s on multiple alts with it mainly due to cress's uncanny ability to just win games on it's own, but I think the team is decently well rounded in general. Sableye + Quag is actually pretty potent in terms of being able to sit on teams. The combination of spikes + knock + taunt + status + recovery + unaware and a spinblocker allows you to wear teams down pretty effectively. Heracross was the main threat I saw, which made crobat seem like a wise choice to add to the core. It can take on hera multiple times throughout a game although if they carry edge (which I honestly have not seen yet a single time) it is likely harder but there are still avenues to be able to outplay it even if it's edge. Even though I have a spinner, I still felt like carrying defog was wise seeing as spinblockers are incredibly common. Entei just seemed pretty enticing to have on a team like this since It has a nice speed tier along with strong priority to pressure HO oriented teams that are likely to carry threats to the backbone. But yeah CM cress just punishes a lot of the lower - mid ladder teams, which is why I think it would be good to have a sample for.

squad

Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Moonlight

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 240 HP / 116 Def / 16 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Toxic

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt

Forretress @ Leftovers
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Heavy Slam / Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Spikes
- Volt Switch

EV Notes: 48 SpA on cress allows you to always break raikou's sub when equally boosted. Crobat just has enough speed for jolly/timid 115s. Only a couple in the tier, but I felt like that was as high as I should go before I throw the rest into bulk.

 

[TTK]

Following in Amane Misa's example, I'm posting my personal VR of the current UU meta. What I can say from seeing theirs and Twilight's on BDSP discord, there are a lot of discrepancies between our choices as you'll see below. More of the lower ranks than higher ranks, the top tiers are obvious enough if you actually play this tier. Anyway, here we go!

S - I don't feel like anything screams S to me when playing this tier. Like S rank is for the best of the best of mons in the tier, hardly any flaws and able to be on most teams but nothing fits my definition.
(none)


A+

A

A-

B+

B

B-

C+

C

i CBA to do the sun mons rn but they'd be around the B section anyway. I'll add them later.

 

[Hyperion1O1]

New to BDSP Meta as a whole and I've just recently started in UU. Help me make changes, I screwed up some of my mons set but I dont know where to start fixing.

BDSP UU Test Team

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Throat Chop

Cleans weakened mons and becomes harder to stop once he gets a Moxie Boost.

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Leaf Storm
- Trick
- Will-O-Wisp

Pivots with Volt switch, kills Water and Grounds with Leaf Storm, Trick to cripple walls. Wisp to ruin physical threats.

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

First Wallbreaker, used to punch holes in the enemy team so my scarfers can clean.

Cloyster @ Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Blast
- Icicle Spear
- Explosion
- Spikes

Banded Cloyster punches holes on switchins that would deal with it normally. Quagsire is 2HKOd by Icicle Spear if it switches expecting a Shell Smash. With Rocks support, Banded Icicle Spears 2HKOs nearly everything that is not a bulky resist and Rock Blasts can cleave through defensive mons e.g. 252 HP/160 Def+ Crocune is a 99% 3HKO with Rocks. Spikes are there for some mind games and Banded Explosion for more damage.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Defog
- Drain Punch
- Rock Tomb

I don't know what to make of Mew. Mon is so versatile but I think I butchered the set. Can anyone recommend me a Mew set that works with the team?

At least Rock Tomb's speed drops and coverage is usable when I decide to sac Mew.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Tomb
- Reflect

Fat Steel type that throws out Stealth Rocks. Usually survives unboosted super effective attacks (even ones with Life Orb). I'm debating whether Reflect or Light Screen is better when looking at the current pool of UU pokemon.

 

[KaenSoul]

We are doing this now? ok

S- (i think these 2 are the best but arent that far away from the others)

Really hard to switch into for any team, guts destroy stall by itself, scarf is a really good cleaner.
Can do anything, stallbreaker (toxic + taunt, etc.) and np are really dangerous sets with few answers, 100 base speed means it doesnt fear hera as much as cress.

A+

All four of them can sweep teams with just a bit of support, Entei in sun is a real monster, Blastoise is also a great spinner.
A

Torkoal is just to show how good sun is if not better as people discover new builds. The others are just great in general.
A-


B+

B

B-


C+

C

C-


D

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Hyperion1O1 That looks like a solid team, though if I might suggest a few changes:

Heracross @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Facade / Throat Chop

Heracross shines as a wallbreaker first and foremost. Scarf Hera isn't bad per se, but Flame Orb is by far and away its best set.

Cloyster @ White Herb / Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell / Explosion

Choice item users need to switch in and out a lot, which is bad when you're weak to all hazards. Other than Mew (bad set, will get to in a bit) you have no form of hazard control. Therefore, the standard Shell Smash set is what you want.

Mew @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Fire Blast / Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball

Nasty Plot Mew is a great sweeper and can also double as a wallbreaker. You can run whatever moves you want on NP Mew, depending on what your team needs to hit.

Finally, I would suggest ditching Nidoking. You have enough offensive pressure already, so you could use some hazard control.

Flygon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn

 

[Hyperion1O1]

Flygon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-turn

Thanks. Will try it now.

What's the Jolly+120 Speed EVs for on Flygon? I assume this is to outspeed something?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Thanks. Will try it now.

What's the Jolly+120 Speed EVs for on Flygon? I assume this is to outspeed something?

Max speed base 85s like Heracross and Suicune. That was just the first thing that came to mind it’s not really an optimal spread

 

[Hyperion1O1]

Hi, I'm back. I've been liking UU so far even if I've not played that many games. I've been checking the viability list and attempting to theorycraft some sets and teams. Here's the latest I've come up with it.

BDSP UU

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

My Blastoise, Nidoking (unless they have Focus Punch) and Yanmega answer. Split the EVs on Def and SpD in case I eat U turns if I mispredict. A late game wincon if the physical threats are gone. Can also come in on SubCM Suicune/Raikou and 1v1.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Unaware wall against potential boosts like DDance Gyara or Choice locked Moxie Hera. Standard set all around, though I'm thought of having Safeguard on this set. In the end, losing Earthquake to threaten Steels and Poisons seems bad so I kept it.

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heal Bell
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up

44 Spe to outspeed Chansey, Heal Bell to remove status in case Mew or Quag eats a Toxic. Intimidate is helpful in softening incoming physical damage. Play Rough for STAB, CC for Steels, Normals and Rocks. I chose Bulk Up as a last move because I wanted to pressure my opponents.

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
My Mismagius answer if I mess up and Chansey dies. Also my Rotom-Mow/Heat answer in case they Trick Scarf. Tspikes+Whirlwind to shuffle Toxic.
Also pressures Psychic types even if they have Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast due to the SpDef Investment (3HKOed by Scarf Gardevoir) if my Bronzong dies.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Grass Knot
- Light Screen

Steel type Rock setter, my answer to potential Flame Orb Facade sets. Gyro Ball 2HKOes offensive Flygon and Scarf Hera. Grass Knot 2HKOes Phys Def Swampert and 3HKOes the 252/252+SpDef variant. I felt like I already have solutions to physical threats so I went Light Screen because there are so many dangerous Special Attackers in this tier like Raikou, Pory-Z, Nasty Plot Mew, Special Flygon with LO, etc.

Also has a 50% chance to OHKO Shell Smash Cloyster with Grass Knot and can only be 3HKOed in return so that's cool.

0 SpA Bronzong Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 222-262 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 120-140 (35.5 - 41.4%) -- approx. 73.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Defogger. U Turn over Volt Switch in case they block with Ground types. Went with Wisp because Drapion and Quag have Toxic. Kinda passive tho but no Night Shade or Seismic Toss so wcyd.

Question is, is this a filthy stall team? What can I do to further improve it?

 

[TyCarter]

Hi, I'm back. I've been liking UU so far even if I've not played that many games. I've been checking the viability list and attempting to theorycraft some sets and teams. Here's the latest I've come up with it.

BDSP UU

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

My Blastoise, Nidoking (unless they have Focus Punch) and Yanmega answer. Split the EVs on Def and SpD in case I eat U turns if I mispredict. A late game wincon if the physical threats are gone. Can also come in on SubCM Suicune/Raikou and 1v1.

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover

Unaware wall against potential boosts like DDance Gyara or Choice locked Moxie Hera. Standard set all around, though I'm thought of having Safeguard on this set. In the end, losing Earthquake to threaten Steels and Poisons seems bad so I kept it.

Granbull @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heal Bell
- Play Rough
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up

44 Spe to outspeed Chansey, Heal Bell to remove status in case Mew or Quag eats a Toxic. Intimidate is helpful in softening incoming physical damage. Play Rough for STAB, CC for Steels, Normals and Rocks. I chose Bulk Up as a last move because I wanted to pressure my opponents.

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
My Mismagius answer if I mess up and Chansey dies. Also my Rotom-Mow/Heat answer in case they Trick Scarf. Tspikes+Whirlwind to shuffle Toxic.
Also pressures Psychic types even if they have Dazzling Gleam/Moonblast due to the SpDef Investment (3HKOed by Scarf Gardevoir) if my Bronzong dies.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Grass Knot
- Light Screen

Steel type Rock setter, my answer to potential Flame Orb Facade sets. Gyro Ball 2HKOes offensive Flygon and Scarf Hera. Grass Knot 2HKOes Phys Def Swampert and 3HKOes the 252/252+SpDef variant. I felt like I already have solutions to physical threats so I went Light Screen because there are so many dangerous Special Attackers in this tier like Raikou, Pory-Z, Nasty Plot Mew, Special Flygon with LO, etc.

Also has a 50% chance to OHKO Shell Smash Cloyster with Grass Knot and can only be 3HKOed in return so that's cool.

0 SpA Bronzong Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 222-262 (92.1 - 108.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 120-140 (35.5 - 41.4%) -- approx. 73.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn

Defogger. U Turn over Volt Switch in case they block with Ground types. Went with Wisp because Drapion and Quag have Toxic. Kinda passive tho but no Night Shade or Seismic Toss so wcyd.

Question is, is this a filthy stall team? What can I do to further improve it?

At first glance, SD Guts Heracross which is Heracross' best set would give this team a lot of issues as even Unaware Quagsire usually gets 2HKO'ed by Heracross' stab. Granbull basically can't switch in safely as even +1 Guts Heracross would destroy it with facade unless u put some physdef evs into it and even at -1 will 2HKO Granbull with Facade. Without changing what mons u run, Mew u should consider running speed on it so it can at least keep Heracross from doing it's thing as easily and could arguably function as ur nidoking and yanmega answers better pending on what u run. It's not a bad team but Guts heracross u absolutely need to be wary of. I don’t think it's a bad team but it could use some tweaks.

 

[StarFalcon555]

So usage stats came out, and one new Pokemon has dropped to UU: Empoleon! Not gonna lie, really surprised to see this drop since I really like using this in OU. Regardless, Empoleon should be fantastic in the tier, providing us with another good rocker as well as a solid defensive Water type that can check the likes of Blastoise and Gyarados. Really excited to see how this affects the tier!

 

[I am New]

Is there going to be a VR for BDSP UU?

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

| 9    | Ambipom            | 14.203% |

STOP.

 

[TTK]

So a post wasn't really made for talking about the state of the tier with drops + the new rises so I am here to fill that role as a BDSP UU council member.

Gained: Empoleon
Lost: Nothing



I have a bit of a mixed opinion regarding Empoleon. The defensive typing is brilliant, making it a blanket check to a lot in the tier like Blastoise (with no Aura Sphere), Cloyster, Gardevoir, Honchkrow and some others. It also gives UU another option of a bulky water which has access to hazards and hazard removal. However, its good defensive typing is easily abusable in a tier with strong fighting, electric and ground type pokemon. Letting Heracross in for free is never a good thing imo. In regards to grounds, Empoleon could run Shuca in OU and I think it's a nice option here to not be deadweight vs Nidoking and Flygon but lefties would be more common since penguin lacks reliable recovery, making that matchup harder. It also faces strong competition with the other bulky waters in the tier due to its inability to check Entei properly due to its neutrality to Fire; Tentacruel has Spin and similar special bulk and both Milotic and Slowbro have reliable recovery. Overall, I think Empoleon won't be a top mon in the tier but it won't be terrible either.

Now let us discuss a little bit about our new UU friends.


| 37 | Froslass | 4.966% |

Personally, I had never used Froslass in UU and it is bottom 4 in usage out of the UU mons but I suppose HO teams found their favourite lead to use. Froslass has a good speed tier of 110, can 1up most pokemon in turn 1 by either taunting or immediately setting up Spikes and destiny bonding afterwards. Other than this small niche, I don't see much use for it. If Poltergeist was still here, banded wouldve definitely been used but special is just outclassed by Mismagius but Froslass does have ice stab and a higher speed tier so it's not too worse in comparison.


| 38 | Arcanine | 4.917% |

A week has passed and I still wonder why this mon rose up. Sure it's in bottom 4 with Froslass, Ditto and Zapdos but please, someone legitimately tell me what this mon does that Entei doesn't other than Intimidate "the opposing mon's Attack fell!" It's worse in the offensive department, worse in speed and defensive Arcanine checks nothing at all. I'll be waiting for a response.


| 40 | Zapdos | 4.718% |

Last but not least Zapdos. This one can actually be somewhat explained since the defensive typing is solid and it can Defog. It's not amazing by any means but it gets the job done. Still stuck uturning around most of the time but it can be good glue for teams that want a defogger that isn't Flygon.


There are 2 more things I wanted to mention. Firstly, it's my current opinion on the tier. 2 months into its lifespan, it's a good tier. It got better after Salamence got banned and we saw the fall in steel type usage, what was good before continues to stay good. Flygon being number 1 in usage makes me cry tears of joy. Of course, anything isn't perfect. I believe there are two elements in the tier that are somewhat a nuisance which are Blastoise and Heracross. I would personally like to see some action regarding these two in the near future but since BDSP UU Open is around the corner, idk that's good precedence or not, I'll ask around.

Speaking of the BDSP UU Open, if you like playing this tier, sign up here!

 

[sweetlou357]

| 38 | Arcanine | 4.917% |

A week has passed and I still wonder why this mon rose up. Sure it's in bottom 4 with Froslass, Ditto and Zapdos but please, someone legitimately tell me what this mon does that Entei doesn't other than Intimidate "the opposing mon's Attack fell!" It's worse in the offensive department, worse in speed and defensive Arcanine checks nothing at all. I'll be waiting for a response.

Here are some points for CB Arcanine:

• Similar stats and access to Extreme speed
• A more useful ability in Intimidate
• Flare Blitz hits harder than Sacred Fire
• Access to Close Combat

I've actually switched from Entei to Arcanine because it is able to take on Snorlax which is a huge pain for every team unless you have Heracross. I think CC and Intimidate actually make up for its weaker stats.

 

[Tbolt]

Missed the BDSP UU Open bc of exams

| 38 | Arcanine | 4.917% |

A week has passed and I still wonder why this mon rose up. Sure it's in bottom 4 with Froslass, Ditto and Zapdos but please, someone legitimately tell me what this mon does that Entei doesn't other than Intimidate "the opposing mon's Attack fell!" It's worse in the offensive department, worse in speed and defensive Arcanine checks nothing at all. I'll be waiting for a response.

I use mainly defensive Arcanine as an answer to boosting sweepers with Wisp/Roar/Espeed, but I find it pretty hard to slot in Morning Sun over Flare Blitz for some offense. I guess I could drop Roar since I now have other anti-boosting options, which would open up Arcanine to be a good check to a lot of mons (besides sweepers/physical mons). Unfortunately, I won't get the chance to actually see how good my team will be

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Missed the BDSP UU Open bc of exams



I use mainly defensive Arcanine as an answer to boosting sweepers with Wisp/Roar/Espeed, but I find it pretty hard to slot in Morning Sun over Flare Blitz for some offense. I guess I could drop Roar since I now have other anti-boosting options, which would open up Arcanine to be a good check to a lot of mons (besides sweepers/physical mons). Unfortunately, I won't get the chance to actually see how good my team will be

Defensive Arcanine is really bad. All the stuff it should check has ways to hurt it - Roserade can sleep it on the switch or just smash it with Sludge Bomb, burned Heracross 2HKOs with Close Combat after Rocks, Metagross is immune to Intimidate and smashes it with Earthquake, Yanmega’s Air Slash 2HKOes as does Tinted Lens Bug Buzz. Being weak to all hazards is also not great on a defensive mon.

People, just let Zapdos, Arcanine and Ambipom fall to RU.