Metagame BDSP RU (Cresselia + Gyarados Ban @ Post #112)

[Eve]

BDSP RU is the third usage-based tier for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. This thread will be the hub for all resources and discussions, including Viability Rankings, suspect tests, quickbans and general conversation about the format as it develops.

Council:
Toy Time King
TyCarter
TONE

RULES
Mechanics: Battle mechanics are identical to those in Pokemon Sword and Shield, with the exception of Dynamax being removed. Any items introduced after Generation 4 with in-battle effects, excluding Pixie Plate and Roseli Berry, are unavailable.
Clauses: Smogon-wide Clauses apply.
Available Pokemon: Pokemon #001-493 are available. This does not include Alolan/Galarian formes or Mega Evolutions.
Bans:

• All OU bans apply.
• OU: Alakazam, Azelf, Azumarill, Blissey, Breloom, Clefable, Crawdaunt, Donphan, Dragonite, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Garchomp, Gengar, Gliscor, Heatran, Infernape, Jirachi, Latios, Latias, Lucario, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Manaphy, Rotom-W, Scizor, Skarmory, Staraptor, Starmie, Tangrowth, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Weavile
• UUBL: Salamence
• UU: Aerodactyl, Ambipom, Blastoise, Bronzong, Cloyster, Cresselia, Crobat, Ditto, Drapion, Entei, Espeon, Flygon, Forretress, Gardevoir, Granbull, Gyarados, Heracross, Hippowdon, Honchkrow, Metagross, Mew, Milotic, Mismagius, Nidoking, Porygon-Z, Quagsire, Raikou, Registeel, Roserade, Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Mow, Salamence, Slowbro, Snorlax, Suicune, Swampert, Tentacruel, Torkoal, Umbreon, Yanmega
• RUBL: None (Yet!)

RESOURCES

• Viability Rankings
• Sample Teams

BDSP Simple Questions, Simple Answers
BDSP Metagames Discord
More resources will be added over time.

Please don't make extremely short posts and/or simple questions! These will be deleted. Use the Discord or Simple Questions thread, both of which are linked above.

 

[FailureGirl]

venomoth is broken fr..

 

[AstilCodex]

First hour of discussion was ways of dealing with Critdra and ended up on Wigglytuff, Marill, and Spdef Shell Armor Lapras.

This is fire already

 

[Pabloaram]

Why RU and not NU when in DPP Ru wasnt needed bc of the low amount of pokemon??

 

[Lalaya]

@ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Agility
- Focus Energy

hf
you can use timid hpump too i guess....................

Why RU and not NU when in DPP Ru wasnt needed bc of the low amount of pokemon??

because that was the OLD tiering system, we're following this format since BW and we won't change it unless it's assuredly not needed (although we definitely have enough mons for four tiers, just reminder of how ADV also has three tiers and a lot of mons are just unusable there too)

 

[Sputnik]

Very VERY early impressions...



This thing is like Manaphy and Salamence's demon baby in RU, Critdra OHKOs basically everything faster than it and 2HKOs everything that isn't max SpDef Chansey or Shell Armor Spdef Lapras, and Chansey has a chance to die after rocks. There's also big potential for Dragon Dance sets which would have entirely different forms of counterplay. Basically if you're not running this thing on ur offense you are actively handicapping yourself.

Very cool mon that sets rocks and is hard as hell for the tier to switch into, also you can pair Swords Dance sets with ParaSpam from Chansey or Zapdos (who is a cool pivot/defogger) and then just claim. Also a nice normal resist which aren't exactly plentiful in this meta.

Very short post and I'm sure there is plenty more out there but these are two things that I'm loving rn

 

[Comemon]

venomoth (part 2)

VENOMOTH!!! (Venomoth) @ Insect Plate
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

ok like what actually switches in to a +1 bug buzz or energy ball like actually. the only actually good switch-ins can think of are mantine and chansey who are extremely passive. energy ball is preferred over sludge bomb since there is a total of 3 fairies in the tier and theres like 29382838282 bulky waters

 

[master oden]

soooo i tested this tier a little bit and

kingdra has no good switchins(like seriously none)
venomoth wins games on the spot, just one qd and ur team is in huuuuge trouble

however ive been using
Exeggutor @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Bomb

Ninetales @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Will-O-Wisp

Victreebel @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Solar Beam
alongside venomoth and uh yeah, sun kinda exists here and seems pretty op. venu is probably good too just havent tested, i prefer exegg cuz its funny.
(weird speed evs on exeg are to outrun 130speed mons and to maintain some bulk)

this tier is hilarious, everything kills everything in one turn. really fun stuff

 

[Comemon]

pokemon

Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 176 SpD / 80 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Focus Blast

speed evs are to outspeed max speed neutral nature exploud. why do like 2 of the 3 most threatening pokemon in the tier currently primarily use sound-based moves
Exploud Boomburst vs. Soundproof Mr. Mime: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. Soundproof Mr. Mime: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

 

[Bag of Trixx]

Howdy!

I've been playing quite a bit of the new BDSP metagames and I gotta say that RU is looking quite promising! Lots of really fun stuff with a variety of viable options in the tier. In this post, I'm just gonna provide my initial reactions to the metagame, some important mons that I believe are metagame-defining staples, dump a few teams here for those who wish to get a taste of the meta before the samples go up, and also what I believe should be the future steps the tier needs to take in order to progress meta development. Sorry for the lengthy read, but I hope this helps welcome some players to BDSP RU.

Initial Thoughts

As for initial thoughts of the tier, I think it's in a fine state with only a need to address a few glaringly obvious issues (refer to "future steps for the tier") and is going to be quite diverse, focusing more so on the offensive playstyles rather than leaning more defensively. RU is definitely for the aggressive players who like to beat up their opponents rather quickly so they can move onto the next game. However, that isn't to say the tier doesn't have useful defensive capabilities. Common defensive tanks such as Vaporeon, Gastrodon, Rhyperior, Steelix, Torterra, Vileplume, and Slowking all reside here and can absolutely have a place in the metagame, so it'll be exciting to see some Balance builds after the tier develops a little more.

Metagame Staples / High Rank Mons

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn

Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Megahorn

Rhyperior is without a doubt, one of the best mons in the tier. It's extremely customizable both offensively and defensively, fulfills role compression better than most of its competition, and can be quite unpredictable depending on the set and how you play around it. Definitely a strong pick for nearly any team.



Mr. Mime @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic
- Healing Wish
- Trick / Focus Blast

Mr. Mime is the only viable Fairy-type in the tier, however it provides unique qualities that almost no other mon in the tier can compete with. Soundproof allows it to be an offensive check to the dangerous Exploud, but it also becomes a fine offensive check to Kingdra since it's immune to Draco Meteor. It also is the fastest viable Healing Wisher (sorry Lopunny), which is imperative for more offensive teams. Mr Mime might die down after some tiering is done, but as of right now this thing is super solid.



Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb / Black Sludge / Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave / Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Nidoqueen (F) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power / Sludge Wave

Nidoqueen has outstanding coverage, further supported by Sheer Force & Life Orb. On top of this, it has good natural bulk and wonderful role compression as a hazard setter.



Xatu @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Psychic
- Teleport / U-turn / Grass Knot

As the sole Magic Bounce user, Xatu will find itself to fit on quite a lot of teams in the RU metagame. Access to reliable recovery & Defog, pivoting capabilities, a good Fighting-resist, and the ability to lure common rockers like Rhyperior are all fine attributes that will certainly promote Xatu's success in the metagame.



Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
- Drill Peck
- Defog
- Roost
- Volt Switch

A much more reliable Fighting-resist than Xatu, and a bulkier Defogger at that. However, Zapdos lacks reliable coverage in order to punish the common rockers such as Rhyperior or Steelix, therefore it isn't able to reliably stave off the hazards.



Medicham @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch
- Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Bullet Punch

Medicham actually has incredible coverage for the metagame and hits considerably hard. However it's success is based on prediction, therefore Medicham rewards the aggressive player. In the right hands, I think this mon is legit going to shred teams.



Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Another rocker similar to Rhyperior, but Steelix provides a better defensive typing at the cost of offensive capabilities. This mon is definitely better suited for Balance teams in need of its useful Psychic resist and ability to scout vs choice-locked wallbreakers.

Mini RU-Alpha Team Dump

Scarf Mime + CritDra

EV Spreads

96 spe outpaces max speed 80s, remaining EVs in physdef for fighting-types
16 spe outpaces max speed 50s, 248HP + 196 Def w/ Bold ensure offensive Rhyperior's EQ never 2HKOs. Remaining EVs in SpD.

Veil Offense

EV Spreads

216 spe w/ Jolly outspeeds max speed 90s. Remaining EVs in bulk.

Machamp Balance

EV Spreads

240 HP + 212 SpD w/ Calm ensure Exploud's Boomburst never 2HKOs from full. 56 Spe outspeeds max speed Rhyperior.
16 spe outspeeds slow base 50s

future steps for the tier

RU is without a doubt as offensive as a tier can get. It's jampacked full of incredibly powerful wallbreakers, but also has several prominent setup sweepers who can reliably click their setup moves thanks to Abomasnow's Aurora Veil. It also has a good amount of tools in order to account for quite a bit of the offensive metagame, and nothing in terms of role compendium seems to be lacking aside from a few noteworthy categories such as lack of Fairy-types.



Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Dragon Pulse / Agility / Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump / Surf

To address the current meta; it is abundantly clear that Kingdra AKA CritDra has absolutely no place in the BDSP RU metagame. This mon only has one actual defensive check (Spdef Shell Armor Lapras), and this is barely a check at that due to Lapras's poor defensive typing, lack of reliable recovery, and inability to fit comfortably with Wishpassing support due to the best wishpasser in the tier (Vaporeon) stacking identical weaknesses with it. To add some calcs to perspective, literally every other mon in the tier is 2HKOd or OHKOd by Kingdra after a Focus Energy. Kingdra also has decent enough bulk as to where it can actually be quite difficult to revenge-kill. For example, Mr. Mime's Dazzling Gleam doesn't even guarantee an OHKO from full after Stealth Rock damage without some sort of boosting nature/item. On top of all of this, Kingdra even fits well on Aurora Veil teams since it can squeeze Agility onto its set. Agility as an option completely mitigates the idea of being revenge-killed since nothing will be able to outspeed Kingdra, especially in conjuction with the added bulk provided from screens only at the cost of taking Hail chip for a few turns.



Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Surf
- Fire Blast / Hammer Arm
- Shadow Ball

Next on the list is Exploud. Albeit not on the same wavelength as Kingdra, this mon is still incredibly absurd since it has little counterplay defensively due to being able to fit the coverage needed to hit what is supposed to switch into Exploud. For example, Exploud has Surf/Focus Blast for Rhyperior/Probopass, Shadow Ball for Soundproof Mr. Mime, Fire Blast for Steelix, Hammer Arm for Chansey (this one isn't going to be as common, but if Chansey rose in popularity to combat Exploud, then this may very possibly become standard), and a Choice Specs Scrappy Boomburst for everything else in the tier. The issue however, is that Exploud isn't as successful as Kingdra due to being locked into its attacks via Choice Specs, Protect scouting for the choice-locked attack, lack of defensive capabilities due to its pure Normal-typing, and susceptibility to be revenge-killed more easily due to its low speed. I wouldn't be opposed to an Exploud Suspect Test/Quickban with possibility to re-test at a later date since this mon would absolutely warp the tier defensively and can adapt to its defensive checks way too well in comparison to other wallbreakers.



Venomoth @ Life Orb
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder / Substitute

or

Venomoth @ Black Sludge
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Sleep Powder / Substitute

The only other mon who I think is justifiably questionable at first-glance in the new tier is Venomoth. Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens is an absolutely devastating offensive combination, however Venomoth also has reliable recovery, reliable setup opportunities thanks to Sleep Powder + high natural speed, excellent coverage, and decent enough bulk to setup reliably in tandem with its status spreading. Furthermore, Venomoth also fits exceptionally well on Aurora Veil teams due to the added bulk provided by the screens. All of these redeeming qualities and the ability to beat all of its defensive checks with the proper sets convinces me that a Venomoth Suspect Test/Quickban with possibility to re-test at a later date should be highly considered. To provide some 1v1 defensive scenarios, Venomoth can beat defensive Arcanine 1v1 with Sleep Powder, specially defensive Rhyperior with Giga Drain, Steelix with Sleep Powder + Giga Drain. Venomoth is a benefactor that abuses the current metagame needing to address the aforementioned Kingdra & Exploud. Choice Scarf Soundproof Mr. Mime is a good check to both of these. But, since Mr Mime could potentially cripple Venomoth with a choice scarf & is immune to Bug Buzz, Venomoth has absolutely no need to run it at all and can instead opt for Giga Drain + the remaining QD, Sludge Bomb, & Sleep Powder.



Abomasnow @ Light Clay / Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Aurora Veil
- Blizzard
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard

I think after a few quickbans and possible suspects, Aurora Veil may potentially be deemed problematic for the tier later down the line as it may facilitate broken hyper-offensive teams with little-to-no counterplay, or perhaps similar defensive structures will be seen on a variety of teams in order to account for X or Y on said HO teams (i.e Steelix for BD Linoone, Vileplume for NP Raichu, etc).

 

[Liquidocelot]

Explode has got to go. It reminds me very heavily of Gen 7 NU Exploud. Where the only true checks are Mr. Mime and other Exploud aka soundproof mons. Everything else gets blanked by Boomburst + Focus Blast. It's ridiculous.

Other complaints are the Critdra/Venomoth complaints but Exploud is my number 1.

 

[Boatmannnnnnn]

Kabutops @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Brick Break
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
SD is always an op move.

252 SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kabutops: 178-210 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[6Roggenrolas]

Exploud and Venomoth are definitely worth looking at for a ban, maybe even a pre-usage quick one. However, CritDra is on a whole other level of stupid. I haven't had full sweeps this free since the days of Marshadow in gen 7 OU (and even those were harder to get, honestly). Here's hoping it gets the Drizzle treatment so the format can become a bit more fair even if it's fun as is.

Just got #1 on the ladder with this HO team so figure I'd share it- Kingdra is a big component but the team is set up in a way where it could be swapped for some other special sweeper and function basically the same.

RIVER WATER IN YOUR ROCKS

Helme (Kabutops) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Liquidation
- Stone Edge

I know it's early, but I still think this is a criminally underrated mon as I haven't seen a single other person using it. It's easily one of if not the best HO lead in the tier. It can set rocks while removing them, completely defeating more passive setup leads like Shuckle, and its offensive typing is perfect for opposing leads such as Nidoqueen and Claydol. The combination of Rock stab and Rapid Spin means you can Stealth Rock with impunity whether or not the opponent has a Xatu. On top of all this Weak Armor means faster physical attackers can't even safely kill it without risking being hit hard back. Its only real flaw is that it loses to Hitmontop, but teammates can easily take advantage of it.

huh? (Xatu) @ Light Clay
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Thunder Wave
- Teleport

Everyone's talking a big game on Abomasnow which is certainly fair, but I honestly think this is the screener to go for right now. With its much higher speed stat and relatively safer defensive typing, it can easily spit out screens while preventing any hazards or taunts from coming your way. Teleport allows you to then safely bring in your setup sweeper and go to town. Bulkier Pokemon with phazing options that might bother the rest of the team like Gastrodon are completely vulnerable to these tactics. Thunder Wave is a bit of a filler slot but can be critical against CritDra right now and is also helpful to mark things like Hitmontop or Spiritomb as even easier setup fodder for teammates.

Snork (Kingdra) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Focus Energy
- Agility

There's not much to say here. The mon is simply broken- with screens up it can get up both Focus Energy and Agility and kill literally everything as nothing lives Draco+Surf crits except Lapras which nobody is using. With natural bulk, priority often isn't much help against it and you don't even need Agility if the faster, stronger mons like Swellow are gone.

Brickshitter (Rhyperior) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Rhyperior is a fantastic double dance sweeper that gives the team much-needed immediate physical might once Kabutops goes down. Solid Rock + Screens with Lum to protect from Will-O makes setup a breeze, and faster teams will kneel to a Rock Polish if they don't have an adequate scarfer (only scarfers I'm seeing are Rotom, which tend to Trick it away early on anyhow and can only threaten a kill if Frost).Bulkier teams absolutely dread a Swords Dance, with repeated switches and predictions with Hitmontop being their only hope at even briefly stalling it from killing something. Adamant is used over Jolly since out speeding Swellow after a x2 speed boost isn't important as its attacks do very little to Rhyperior even without screens, and as can be seen in one of the replays apparently Weezing can live a +3 Stone Edge from Jolly which nobody wants.

Tick Tock (Venomoth) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute

Venomoth is as good as it ever was, and thanks to screens can effortlessly sweep even without having to rely on Sleep Powder's iffy accuracy and sleep turns all the time. Sub makes something like Yawn Gastrodon setup bait behind screens, with Quiver Dance and Tinted Lens Bug Buzz taking over from there. Two boosts are really all that's needed to take down a team without a Chansey or Moltres, which is the vast majority. It's definitely vulnerable to priority which isn't in the shortest supply, but Reflect and well timed Subs can prevent this from being an issue. Not as free as Kingdra but still a very potent sweeper when used right.

Furcrawler (Bibarel) @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall

Even if it's not crucial to most games, Bibarel is absolutely no meme in this format. Since it relies on priority to sweep, it can feasibly run HP EVs and sometimes set up more easily than the rest of the team particularly without screens backing. This is especially useful since it usually only needs one Swords Dance to work- the majority of the tier's non-walls simply can't stomach a +3 LO boosted Quick Attack or Aqua Jet, which is excellent seeing how offensive the tier is right now. Waterfall is good to hit bulkier foes, and is opted for over Double-Edge since no extra recoil is nice and hitting Spiritomb and Steelix is more important than Vaporeon or Mantine as the latter two can't do as much to hurt this team.

Some replays from today's roomtour that show the team in action:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspru-1484123286
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspru-1484127776
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspru-1484130173

Updates: Changed Waterfall for Facade as Mantine and bulky waters in general were giving Bib some trouble in situations that would've been sweeps otherwise.

 

[glutenfree42]

Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Thunder Wave
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psychic

as comemon said earlier, 2 of the best mons in the tier primarilly use sound based moves and mr mime is good at shutting it down, its also the best offensive check to fighting types especially the incredibly scary medicham, and it helps teams play around critdra as well, i have opted to not invest in special attack so it can check medicham better, moveset can be improved

 

[lowladderplayer999]

In a format where weather and agility critdra is big, priority seems good and below are couple of mons I've been quite impressed with:



Absol @ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough

Hard to get in for free, but great with volt turn (Zapdos was a nice partner with the fight resist and no fairies) and then forcing something out so you can Swords dance and then you will KO a good number of non-resists including Nidoqueen which has solid RU bulk (obviously not Rhyperior etc.). The other issue is that it's prediction reliant because of sucker punch v knock off mind games but definitely worth a test and has put in good work for me.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 309-367 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Exploud: 433-511 (124 - 146.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (though you are faster unless there is a scarf...)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Venusaur: 348-411 (115.6 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 335-395 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Absol Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 302-355 (107.4 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO




Arcanine @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch

The first three moves are needed and Crunch is for Slowking (two shot bold max max after rocks and lefties) but can easily be something else (play rough?). If you like banded Entei in UU, this does similarly good things a tier lower - you trade the sacred fire burn for flare blitz's extra power and fast banded CC is great. Intimidate makes coming in easier too. With swift swim and chlorophyll everywhere as well as scarfers, this is great insurance for your checks and counters (Espeed does 45% to Kingdra for example).

 

[UltiMario]

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Mirror Coat
- Roost
- Haze / Defog

I know this looks like a shitpost but like

+6 252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 258-306 (69.1 - 82%) (assuming you don't just haze it away forever)
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine on a critical hit: 240-285 (64.3 - 76.4%)

I used this a couple times and it works. Obviously needs Haze to beat Sub variants of Venomoth but can Defog if you have a secondary check for it elsewhere. Also if you think the average ladder player won't be dumb enough to go for a +6 Bug Buzz against the guy who whiffed Mirror Coat three turns in a row, you'd be dead fucking wrong.

 

[Eve]

This isn't a council post, just my opinions as a player


Easily the best Pokemon in the tier. It's not even close. CritDra and DD Kingdra are both absolute game-enders, I've even seen Waterfall DD CritDra to stop it having any chance of getting stalled by Chansey lol. The Speed boosts both sets acquire mean that offense isn't safe either because as it turns out, Kingdra is actually pretty bulky and can stack multiple boosts, especially with Screens (which CritDra also ignores on the opposing side, btw) and even moreso especially in a tier lacking almost any Fairy-type Pokemon. If we were to break the Alpha tiering lock, it would be to stop Kingdra from killing this tier single-handedly. Like did you see that full Sp.Def Mantine calc, it has a chance to be OHKO'd after Stealth Rock by Draco Meteor. The best answer is Shell Armor Sp.Def Lapras, which... isn't exactly flawless (it is a good 'mon though, Freeze-Dry and Perish-trap gives it good field presence).
EDIT: Note how I didn't even have to mention the stupid Rain sets at all to make my case lol offense may as well forfeit vs those


Threatening? Yes. Manageable? Kinda. Venomoth just isn't that strong at +1 or even +2, so several phazers can force it out or clear its boosts before it gets toooo out of hand, or something like a Sp.Def Rhyperior can just KO Venomoth unless it takes a big boosted Giga Drain, or you can run something like Scarf Primeape to switch in and proceed to happily outspeed and KO Venomoth if it goes for Quiver Dance or Sleep Powder. Sleep Powder can absolutely throw a wrench in the plans of defensive measures though, so be careful (or just get lucky, either works)! Mono Bug Buzz sets are the best on paper, but with the massive popularity of Soundproof Pokémon going around (Exploud, Bastiodon (no I'm not joking I'll come back to them), Mr. Mime) you're asking for trouble running such a set unless you're really confident you can remove them prior to a sweep attempt. This gives it some slightly awkward moveset decisions to make, as a second coverage move means you have to give up Roost, making setting up as a whole harder, or Sleep Powder, which is Venomoth's trick for negating anti-setup measures. I've seen Specs Venomoth too, but I don't think it's actually good- as I said, a +1 Venomoth still isn't breaking any records for power, and probably locking into Bug Buzz is more exploitable than ever. Venomoth is great overall, but a lot more manageable than Kingdra.


A very polarizing 'mon, but that's not anything new for Exploud at this point. I don't see this as an urgent removal, as Offensive teams bowl it over naturally and defensive teams just Chansey it. There's also Soundproofers making it awkward to click its own STAB move, and, funnily enough, Exploud often ends up running Soundproof of its own, leading to awkward mindgames around Ghosts too. Balance teams do suffer versus Exploud, but it's not close to unbeatable enough overall outside of the balance matchup to be even considered for Alpha tiering in my opinion.


Sun is absolutely stupid. No ifs, no buts. Venusaur can clean-sweep almost any team and that's not an exaggeration, pretty much run Shedinja or die lol. Victreebel can do much the same, but at least you can argue for like... Muk as a check? Charizard is just blatantly unwallable outside of Max HP Max Spdef Chansey (enjoy taking 45% from U-Turns lol, watch Charizard start running Fire Punch too) or Cloud Nine Altaria (an entirely useless Pokemon, look at its movepool, everything is gone). Ninetales is a threat in its own right too as it can kinda just set up to overwhelm non-Mantine Water-types. Sun is my second biggest concern after Kingdra because it at least has more theoretical counterplay options.

Gonna end off this post by talking about my Bestie-odon! It's a relevant mon and you'd best respect it before I smash you with it on ladder. rubysapphiremerald made a post about a similar set, but I'd like to share mine;

The Set

Bastiodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Careful / Impish Nature
- Rock Blast
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

This Pokemon is perfectly situated for success right now. Forget Sturdy + Metal Burst, we're using Soundproof to hard counter Venomoth while the other Soundproof users risk dying to surprise Sludge Bomb. Stealth Rock + Roar greatly offsets its relative passivity, as does actually running Attack EVs (they give a huge proportional increase to its low Attack stat, like a 50% increase lol, and its Defenses don't really need any investment, try it out). Bastiodon can happily stomach basically any neutral hits and will usually take even supereffective ones quite well, and is a godsend for stall once you eventually force DD Kingdra to click Outrage and probably almost lose on the spot. The major differences with this set compared to the one earlier in the thread are dropping Iron Head and Taunt for Rest and Roar, as the former is fairly unimportant coverage and the latter is largely outclassed by Roar on such a slow Pokemon that already sets hazards. Overall strong Pokemon on stall right now, would recommend giving it a go! It also has potential for a funny Block + Curse set if you want to be degenerate.

Would love to hear your thoughts on the big 4 listed above and any adaptations you've made for handling them! Happy laddering :)

 

[mark6870]

First Impressions! I've only played three games, but totally agree with what Sputnik said! Gonna add one more mon here!


Shiftry @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Sucker Punch
- Defog

Big thing here is there's only three defoggers in the tier that don't take 1/4th or more in damage from rocks... Those are Shiftry, Lumineon, and Skuntank. My first idea was "hey, let's use skuntank" but this also this thing is cool! Even without Knock Off, I like this mon because it has access to Swords Dance, which sometimes isn't the first thing you think when you see a Shiftry (I'd think, oh god, leaf storm) but I think STAB Sucker Punch is potent in a meta that, at least right now, seems a little bit offense heavy...

May not be the best set (I'm definitely not anywhere near the best defogger) but for the lack of good defoggers that can survive switching into rocks, I think Shiftry is a pretty good option-

Ofc Skuntank is likely more viable but-

Edit 1: I actually think Shiftry might be better than Skuntank here just because of the nature of how the meta is developing with stuff like Lapras. Also The other big reason for this thought is because a lot of the meta is revolving around offense at the moment... and I don't think that Skuntank can the sort of offensive pressure that Shiftry can right now.



Edit 2: Longer one because I don't want to repost here right after my first post, but...



Miltank @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heal Bell
- Milk Drink
- Curse
- Body Slam

Okay, not gonna spare myself any embarrassment here, but this set just doesn't work... I'm gonna try to rebuild for other things but the innate potential of Miltank right now is pretty great. I think Paralysis is likely going to end up being the most useful status condition as this metagame develops (if it isn't already right now, which imo it probs is) and Body Slam is pretty good with that... But the big thing that I feel like this set does is act as a wall to a lot of Lapras sets. Lapras seems to be one of the best mons right now and I think the combination of Thick Fat plus Milk Drink and Miltank's natural 95/105/70 bulk (investment in SpD seems pretty crucial) could make Miltank one of the better walls. Also, with stuff like Will-O-Wisp Spiritomb being good, I think Miltank also gets a really nice amount of switches to act as a cleric. I think that it might be one of the better defensive mons right now.
(although scout for whirlpool+perish song lapras before sending this in... that thing totally destroys this set...)

But yes, that set really needs work from a moves standpoint... not hitting ghosts at all is not a good look with things like CM Spiritomb...

Edit 3: I haven't really built sets for this, but Lumineon looks like a very interesting support/pivot mon due to having access to defog, u-turn, and Tailwind. Although this does seem like it could just make it a worse Zapdos, I feel that despite the lesser bulk, having Storm Drain and access to Tailwind while also not taking 25% from Stealth Rock makes Lumineon an interesting option. Biggest issue I see that it has is just there's too many good water types (Lapras, Kingdra, Sharpedo, Lanturn, Vaporeon) to make it as useful as other defoggers right now, but as the meta settles and some mons get to RUBL or something, I think Lumineon might have more use.

you run scrappy on curse miltank sets. It runs thick fat on defensive stealth rock sets

 

[AstilCodex]

Okep I haven't made a real post in a while but this tier have caught my attention enough so real post coming.

First stuff its adressing the major threats and potential bans for future.
So the obvious and most commented
Pro tip: Click on mon for sets :o
Cp 1. Seahorse

This is a no brainer. As how mence was obnoxiously busted in UU last month, Kingdra founds itself as the only relevant Dragon in the tier and with the conjunction of its amazing dual stab and access to multiple excellent sets which made it pass through its potential answers. A lot of resistances and annoying bulk for its offensive presence makes it the best pokemon in the tier no doubt and the one that would dominate tier until it gets out of alpha. Its answers regarding to Critdra set get limited to Shedinja, Shell Armor Lapras (Which started as meme but it works), Shell armor Torterra (If no Ice Beam), and Chansey (If no rocks cuz it has a chance to die upon switch). This mon is simply too much for the current power creep the tier has. Are we seriously gonna have to wait one month like with mence in uu? ;-;


Cp 2. LOUD BOIS

I found very funny how we are looking at countering sound-based moves as a measure of dealing with these two guys. Letting things like Bastiodon or Mr. Mime have a niche on the tier, and also Exploud walling itself is funnier.
Exploud does what it has done since gen6 and its clicking one button and blowing away your team, its mediocre speed and bulk can be supported by Trick room or Webs oriented teams which Exploud benefits from. As it has an average speed which makes it work on both archetypes. Even without Scrappy as the need to switch on itself is more important. Exploud has actually near perfect coverage with Water+Fighting+Ghost hitting everything Boomburst won't destroy in one. Just addind that as the tier goes, theres no need for Fire move as the relevant Steel types we have (Steelix, Aggron, Probopass, Bastiodon) get hit already by Surf or Focus Blast better. I think exploud should also be looked at for next month as its too centralizing.


Venomoth on the other hand, gets loud kinda fine as well as it only needs one move paired with Quiver Dance and Sleep to help it sweep through your team. Moth needs little team support as it does it for its own. With Tinted lens and after a boost, resistances are no longer taking hits and it can snowball rather easily. Its poison typing with Sub avoids it to get statused and it can become a nuisance to wear down and actually answer it before its too late. Answers to it are again, Shedinja, Soundproof pokemon like Exploud, Mime (Unless Sludge Bomb) or Bastiodon, bulky spdef mons with phazing (Dont let those get asleep) and hard hitters than can pressure it out like Moltres or Rhyperior. Worth to keep an eye for sure.


I'd to see how meta develop after a Kingdra QB with these two, but countering sound-based moves just cuz how good these two are seems already too centralizing.


Cp 3. Kinda hot in here.
+ or +
Sun will be a heck strong archetype as the only staple who stayed uu was torkoal and one could argue that Ninetales may be better in some situations. As ninetales alone its offensive on its own and can lead to semi-sun type of teams that don't rely on the weather completely and with the potential of a Chlorophyll user in the back to sweep in late game or to make holes in mid game and weaken the opposing team. Pretty self-explanatory. Victrebeel has access to Weather ball which Venusaur lacks atm so I think its the preferred choice. And Charizard even tho it isnt mandatory, in dedicated sun cores its a staple and it just claims one each time it comes in. Simple as that. Very powerful and worrying for sure.


Cp 4. Shark Attack

Seems like pretty much no one has talk about this mon but for me after the aforementioned this thing is the next that should be looked at. Sharpedo just shits on offense and bulkier mons that could sponge one just need one or two spikes switch ins to get in range. The common walls in the tier like Steelix + Slowking gets devoured by its dual stab and ability to go phys or special is also concerning. I haven't tested fully special rn as it seems suboptimal but maybe after the meta develops it'll see more usage. Also this is surpringsily good against Tr and Sun teams as it can, if played well, stall out turns and then revenge sweep. And last, all the mons that walled the ones above gets fucked by this lmao. Sharpedo def underlook.


Epilogue. As last part I wanted to make a brief list of pokemon (Not in order) that are probably gonna be the most viable and you should def be using. Visual its always more colorful for the eyes. P.S: This don't have sets as this post already took me too long ;-; may edit later.

Prob top tier.

Good and relevant pokemon

Niche/ Situational pokemon. (Viable for specific scenarios)

I for sure missed some but I'm happy with this visual list and hope to see more discussion of them. See ya ^^

 

[okispokis]

Some things that have caught my eye during my experience thus far.


This thing is easily the most banworthy mon in the tier. CritDra can 2HKO almost anything (especially since the tier has a whopping 3 Fairies), and the few things that can eat a hit drop to DDance set. Pretty simple issue: Kingdra has 2 sets with drastically different answers and those answers aren't very solid to begin with; I wouldn't say it's constraining on the builder because something would have to reliably answer it in the builder for that to be the case.


Sun is definitely dominant, albeit not impossible to play around as Sun cores can have difficulty taking on mons like SpD Mantine (can confirm its legit) and Flash Fire Arcanine. Chloro users like Venusaur and Victreebel mean most teams are never truly safe vs Sun, but once those go down their teams are not too hard to handle in my experience.


Nidoqueen @ Life Orb/Black Sludge
Sheer Force
252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD or 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Modest or Timid Nature
-Stealth Rock/Toxic Spikes
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
-Sludge Wave/Thunderbolt/Fire Blast/Toxic Spikes
Nidoqueen functions much like her male counterpart in UU- fire off Sheer Force attacks and set hazards when you can. EP is mandatory, but otherwise you have a bunch of options to choose from. Been running offensive spread, but that spread does tend to struggle with offensive teams.


Tauros @ Life Orb
Sheer Force
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
Naive Nature
-Rock Climb
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide/Assurance
-Fire Blast
And here we have our other Sheer Force user. Tauros lacks the versatility of Queen but makes up for it with its superior power and Speed tier. Fire Blast helps Taur bypass otherwise solid answers like Steelix and benefits from prominence of Sun right now, EQ handles most resists and Rock Slide hits SE against a lot of relevant mons like Ninetales and Zapdos (also non-contact); Assurance really only helps vs Rotom base. It's not super bulky (especially with -SpD), so pivots make for good partners.


Rotom @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Volt Switch
-Shadow Ball
-Thunderbolt
-Trick
Rotom is STAB spam, but effective at it. Specs Shadow Ball tears through most Ground types, and Normal types don't wanna eat its Electric STAB. Scarf can deal with matchups like Swellow since Rotom isn't a good switch in getting 2HKOed by Guts Brave Bird.


Arcanine @ Life Orb (sorry about ping)
Intimidate/Flash Fire
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Flare Blitz
-Extreme Speed
-Close Combat/Play Rough
-Morning Sun
Arcanine doesn't seem to be too popular atm, but it actually has quite a few things going for it. Its offensive repertoire includes strong STAB Flare Blitz, Espeed to revenge kill, CC to prevent mons like Aggron from coming in on it and even Play Rough to catch Kingdra (provided it hasn't boosted its speed); Morning Sun helps heal off Blitz and LO recoil (LO is preferable item to allow Morning Sun and because each of Arc's moves are easy to play around when locked in). Intimidate gives Arc more switch in opportunities, while Flash Fire allows Arc to be a pretty decent anti-Sun mon, as Arc already benefits from Sun powering up Blitz and Morning Sun. Recoil and Rocks weakness mean it will often only get 1 or 2 kills, but that can easily be enough in the current fast paced meta. So yeah, Arcanine is low-key underrated and is worth considering for any non-Sun offensive structures seeking a Fire type.


Swellow's speed tier can make it a pain to take down, as this guy will almost always get at least some damage off unless you have a strong priority option like Espeed. Best paired with mons that can take on bulky Steels, as everything else struggles to eat Guts STAB combo (Rotom gets 2HKOed by BB).

 

[Smashburn]

My thoughts on some of the current biggest threats during Alpha.

Kingdra
Overwhelmingly strong, more so meta-bending. Its variety of sets are extremely strong and make it impossible to account for Kingdra defensively in the builder. Basically, fit it on your team or play with your hands tied behind your back. imo this thing needs QB rather than suspect tested.

Venomoth
Almost up there with Kingada. Venomoth destroys almost the entire tier, and its answers are niche at best. I won't get into much detail since it has been discussed heavily, but if you have to ask yourself "well it threatens almost everything viable, what else can I use?" then it probably needs looked at.

Sun
Sun is a little more complex as it is a playstyle rather than a single threat. It is very similar to Rain in OU; the autonomous setting of weather makes it difficult to control and methods of stopping it are limited (albeit easier to slot, but that isn't saying a lot). Breakers and Sweepers facilitated by autonomous Sun such as Victreebel, Venusaur, Charizard, and Typhlosion are independently very manageable, Sun simply gives them an out to abuse their power immediately. I would be in favor of a QB, alongside Kingdra and Venomoth at this time.

Exploud
A great selection of coverages and abilities alongside Webs, Trick Room, and VoltTurn cores make Exploud difficult to deal with. It has its detrimental qualities such as middling speed and bulk, but it packs a punch that is undeniably strong which decimates its checks. It certainly merits being looked at, though Kingdra, Venomoth, and Sun are more immediately concerning.

Weezing
On an unrelated note, I think Weezing is pretty underrated. It has access to two excellent abilities, Levitate and Neutralizing Gas, both of which present their own benefits. Its coverage is very nice, it allows it to hit a wide variety of the tier and its access to Will-O-Wisp and Toxic is rare with BDSP's distribution of status.

Unfortunately, we are stuck with a knot ball of threats until Alpha ends. Hopefully this offense nightmare ends soon and the meta shifts to being less crazy and free of these tier menaces. Happy mental torture laddering all!

 

[TTK]

I made a RU viability list on mons with their role/set in the tier, wanted to share with everyone. I think anyone that has played the tier is aware of the obvious suspects of terror and getting easy wins but there are some mons when the meta settles down, they will form the tier. Also thanks to the users of the BDSP room in giving me a few more mons to add!

BDSP RU Viability List

Abomasnow (veil goes brr)
Absol (sd + priority)
Aggron (banded recoiless head smash and rocks ig)
Altaria (sun check gotta find a use for this somewhere.)
Arcanine (physical breaker with espeed + recovery)
Bastiodon (veno and exploud (kinda) check. Otherwise dont use)
Bellossom (bulky qd + strength sap)
Bibarel (simple sd)
Cacturne (spikes + priority)
Chansey (bulky stall mon)
Charizard (sun mon)
Claydol (rocks + spin + teleport)
Cradily (rocks + recovery + water immunity)
Drifblim (unburden cm or flare boost ig probably the former)
Electivire (physical breaker)
Exploud (boomburst) (perhaps qb)
Froslass (spikes + taunt good speed tier)
Gallade (sd or scarf)
Gastrodon (bulky mon with recovery + water immunity)
Glaceon (one of few ice types, hits hard with specs)
Golem (rocks/strong physical breaker)
Gorebyss (shell smash)
Hariyama (guts)
Hitmonchan (spinner)
Hitmonlee (unburden or reckless hjk)
Hitmontop (intim + spin)
Houndoom (mixed attacker or NP or Specs)
Huntail (shell smash)
Jolteon (specs)
Jynx (lovely kiss + np)
Kabutops (rocks + spin or my personal favourite, endure flail)
Kangaskhan (double prio + scrappy)
Kecleon (double prio + protean)
Kingdra (CritDra and the rest of the sets) (pls qb)
Kingler (agility + Sheer Force attacker)
Lanturn (bulky water + electric immunity)
Lapras (the CritDra check)
Leafeon (sd ig)
Linoone (belly drum)
Ludicolo (rain)
Machamp (guts)
Magmortar (special breaker)
Mantine (bulky water + recovery + defog)
Masquerain (webs)
Medicham (strong choiced physical breaker)
Mesprit (NP, rocks, healing wish its very versatile)
Miltank (bulky normal with rocks + recovery)
Moltres (hazard removal LOL)
Mr. Mime (NP or scarfer with Healing Wish)
Nidoqueen (rocks + Sheer Force attacker)
Ninetales (drought)
Omastar (shell smash)
Primeape (scarf defiant)
Probopass (trapping steels + magnet rise)
Raichu (NP good speed tier)
Rapidash (sd + recovery)
Rhyperior (rocks, SD, rock polish, double dance)
Rotom (choiced + trick)
Sableye ("bulky" prankster mon)
Sceptile (one of the fastest + unburden)
Sharpedo (speed boost wallbreaker)
Shuckle (webs and rocks)
Slowking (bulky water + regenerator + recovery)
Smeargle (suicide lead webs/rocks)
Spiritomb (crotomb)
Steelix (bulky steel + rocks)
Swellow (fast guts mon)
Tauros (fast Sheer Force attacker)
Torterra (rocker with good mu against other rockers, Rock Polish)
Toxicroak (NP or SD, one of few offensive Sharpedo switchins)
Ursaring (guts or quick feet)
Uxie (screens, rocks, bulky mon)
Vaporeon (bulky water with wish)
Venomoth (qd tinted lens) (pls qb)
Venusaur (sun mon)
Victreebel (sun mon)
Vileplume (bulky grass with strength sap)
Volbeat (prankster rain)
Weezing (bulky with neutralizing gas)
Xatu (screens magic bouncer)
Zangoose (toxic orb attacker or belly drum)
Zapdos (typing mon + recovery + defog)

Here is also a list of mons that probably won't be standard in a RU sense but can probably do something in a couple of games.

Niche mons

Articuno (in my dreams)
Camerupt (trick room eruption)
Dugtrio (it still has a speed tier but its just outclassed and has no bulk)
Flareon (seen it on stall to handle the sun mu)
Floatzel (another fast attacker but Sharpedo is the premier water attacker)
Grumpig (probably would never use it as a NP over Mesprit or Mime but its here. Colbur also beats Houndoom 1 on 1)
Haunter (fast ghost attacker great dual STABs)
Kadabra (sash magic guard)
Manectric (choiced switcheroo)
Marowak (TR abuser)
Noctowl (screens + any setup should be decent enough. Tinted Lens too)
Octillery (specs tr abuser water spout)
Pinsir (probably underrated. Mold Breaker or Moxie)
Poliwrath (probably the best sharpedo answer in the tier)
Qwilfish (Intimidate + spikes/tspikes)
Rampardos (scarf)
Sandslash (spin first then hippopotas sand second)
Seadra (readying myself for the kingdra ban)
Shedinja (exclusively seen on stall builds. Also a kingdra switchin)
Shiftry (where our defoggers kinda suck, Shiftry is one of the few not rocks weak.)
Skuntank (what I wrote for Shiftry also applies here.)
Typhlosion (sun mon but if drought gets nuked, scarf eruption still exists)

 

[Smashburn]

A few others I found worthy of discussion.

Bibarel
Simple + SD, Strong STABs, and two forms of Prio let Bibarel rip through everything in the tier. Faster checks dislike SD Prio, and bulky Steel-types can't handle Water STABs due to secondary typing. Fatter builds that intend to check Bibarel have a rough time with screens and don't like taking boosted STAB Double-Edge, which can open teams up for other threats. I would be in favor of a Arceus incarnate Bibarel suspect test shortly after Alpha.

Sharpedo
Speed Boost, great offensive typing, and mixed coverage grant Sharpedo the ability to rip apart teams with slower balanced structures. Fatter builds tend to get in its way, but mixed coverage offsets methods of counterplay and limits its pool of defensive options. Offensive checks like Toxicroak and other bulky Fighting-types are easier to slot into a team, as is Priority. I would be willing to look into a suspect test late post-Alpha, but I don't think it is as pressing as other threats are at the moment.

Sneasel
I'm surprised no one has talked about Sneasel yet. I'll let the calcs talk for the most part, but here is some more information:

Jolly > Adamant:

Sneasel struggles to establish itself without power, which an Adamant nature supplies. It is already naturally faster than most of the tier, so Adamant can be afforded at almost no cost. Inner Focus is beneficial against defensive Intimidation such as Hitmontop and Arcanine. A Jolly nature can be used to outspeed neutral max speed Swellow and Sceptile, as well as base 60 Scarfs.

The Calcs don't even begin to do Sneasel justice, this thing sees so little use with so much application. Relevant interactions that were unlisted include those between Sneasel and Aggron, Arcanine, Gastrodon, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Lapras, Hariyama, Rhyperior, Slowking, Weezing, and a few others. It is notable that while being fast, Sneasel struggles with faster mons due to how frail it is. It also dislikes hazards, so teams with strong hazard removal are appreciated.

Sneasel @ Choice Band Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant / Jolly Nature - Throat Chop - Icicle Crash - Ice Shard - Low Kick​

Sneasel @ Life Orb Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant / Jolly Nature - Throat Chop - Icicle Crash / Low Kick - Ice Shard - Swords Dance​

These sets can get up to some shenanigans with Beat Up as well, which were not shown.

Example Calcs

Adamant Calcs:

Hitmontop

Choice Band
​

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Ice Shard, Throat Chop, Low Kick 4HKO-5HKO)

Life Orb ​

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 238-281 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 238-281 (78.2 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 112-133 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 112-133 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 112-133 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 112-133 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Steelix

Choice Band ​

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 79-94 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 79-94 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 76-90 (21.4 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 76-90 (21.4 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 150-178 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 150-178 (42.3 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Life Orb ​

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 138-164 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 138-164 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 130-153 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 130-153 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 260-307 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 260-307 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lanturn

Choice Band ​

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 92-108 (20.2 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 92-108 (20.2 - 23.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 174-205 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 174-205 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 58-69 (12.7 - 15.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Life Orb
​

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 160-187 (35.2 - 41.1%) -- 71.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 160-187 (35.2 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 300-355 (66 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 300-355 (66 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 101-120 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 101-120 (22.2 - 26.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Vaporeon

Choice Band
​

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 90-107 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 90-107 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 171-202 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 171-202 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 85-101 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 85-101 (18.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Life Orb
​

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 156-185 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- 27.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 156-185 (33.6 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 296-348 (63.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 296-348 (63.7 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 148-175 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 148-175 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Jolly Calcs:

Hitmontop

Choice Band ​

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 126-148 (41.5 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Ice Shard, Throat Chop, Low Kick 5HKO-6HKO)

Life Orb ​

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 218-257 (71.9 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 103-122 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 41.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 103-122 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 95% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 101-121 (33.3 - 39.9%) -- 28.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 101-121 (33.3 - 39.9%) -- 88.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 103-121 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- 32.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 103-121 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- 89.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Steelix

Choice Band ​

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 136-162 (38.4 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 136-162 (38.4 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Icicle Crash, Throat Chop 5HKO-6HKO)

Life Orb
​

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 126-149 (35.5 - 42%) -- 89.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 126-149 (35.5 - 42%) -- 99% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 118-140 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- 16.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 118-140 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- 48.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 237-281 (66.9 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 237-281 (66.9 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lanturn

Choice Band ​

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 84-99 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 84-99 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 159-187 (35 - 41.1%) -- 69.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 159-187 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 53-63 (11.6 - 13.8%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Life Orb ​

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 144-172 (31.7 - 37.8%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 144-172 (31.7 - 37.8%) -- 91% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 274-324 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 274-324 (60.3 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 92-109 (20.2 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lanturn: 92-109 (20.2 - 24%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Vaporeon

Choice Band ​

252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 156-184 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 20.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 156-184 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

(Icicle Crash, Low Kick 6HKO-7HKO)

Life Orb ​

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 143-168 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 143-168 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- 54.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 269-317 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 269-317 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 135-160 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 135-160 (29 - 34.4%) -- 4.8% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[Jirac]

I'm quite new so sorry for any errors.

I thought I'd share my thoughts on every notable (in my opinion) grass type in the tier. Grass types have been generally seen as good since we first started discussing the tier, as the main threats were thought to be Bulky Ground and Water types, as such this should serve as a way to judge which one might be best for your team.

Sun Abusers



The first category of sun users I'd like to highlight are the sun abusers. This will be short since they're fairly self-explanatory. The 3 most useful ones are Venusaur, Victreebell and Shiftry. The first two generally act nearly identically with a special grass move, sludge bomb and growth. Victreebell gets access to Weather Ball which is good against certain threats but nothing that you can't deal damage too with something like sludge bomb. Meanwhile, Venusaur gets earthquake for mixed sets which can give it an edge against bulky fire types. Shiftry usually serves to supplement either of these, as it has access to defog alongside decent dual STAB and access to swords dance, nasty plot and growth.

Offensive (Non-Sun)



Outside of Sun, there are a few other grass types that can be used offensively. Notably, Bellossom can be useful as a quiver dance sweeper. It can deal serious damage with giga drain and gets good utility moves such as Strength Sap and Toxic. The resistance to ground is also notable for switch-ins on certain Pokémon such as Rhyperior and Golem. In addition, Oddish's other evolution Vileplume can also be useful as it gets similar utility moves, with a more impressive special attack stat in return for weaker defences. They both also have access to moonblast which can be useful against the main threat of the format, Kingdra, if you have the move space.



Sceptile has been popping up on the ladder quite frequently. It's very fast and hits relatively hard with STAB leaf blade. It gets decent coverage, however most people I have seen have been using physical sets, which I don't think are optimal as it has a significantly higher special attack. Torterra is viable as it has strong attack and defences, alongside access to shell armor which can let it counter Kingdra without ice beam. As a physical attacker, access to moves such as Stone Edge, Earthquake and Superpower let it fill a slot on a team that you might not be able to fill with a different grass type.

Other



Other grass types in the format that have certain utility are as follows. Cacturne has multiple sets, either as a swords dance sweeper with sucker punch, similar to Absol, or as a spiker with assurance to deal high damage. In addition, a water immunity means it can safely switch into Kingdra and finish it off if it's at low health with sucker punch. Abomasnow is the only viable automatic setter outside of Sun, and as such it can switch in on something like shiftry in order to turn sun off, I think it suffers from a lot of common weaknesses in the format like fighting and fire. Abomasnow also gets aurora veil which means it can serve as a screener on teams that can support it.



Cradily also has utility as a rocker with a water immunity, as well as access to a decent move pool for either stalling, or handling certain threats. I think it has potential as a swords dance/curse user on trick room. Jumpluff has a very impressive speed, as well as being one of the only two viable users of Acrobatics. I'm not sure what team it would fit on but i believe it could have utility on certain teams that need something fast with access to support moves.

Lastly are a few that I don't think are very viable, except at filling a specific niche. Ludicolo is good on rain as a staller, however it suffers from sun being one of the most viable archetypes. Once sun gets banned it will be better. Both Tropius and Exeggutor have access to Harvest which can be useful on certain stall teams.

Outro

If you made it this far, thanks for reading my first real post. I'm quite new to this so any feedback would be much appreciated! You can find me on discord in the BDSP Server as bee.#4965.

 

[master oden]

I am suprised that no one has mentioned Exeggutor as viable, as specs 2hkos a HUGE majority of the meta and offensive mons just drop in one hit. It is also viable on sun teams as it allows it to outspeed and finish mons that would live its first hit. Yes it has its issues, mediocre defensively, but grass psychic stab is AMAZING in this meta rn. Steels that would resist psychic and grass are usually also rock type and take loads from leaf storm/solar beam, and dont have reliable recovery so they get chunked pretty hard.

I feel the tree has a niche here, but it does require support. It is just super difficult to switch into when it comes in.

(also quickban kingdra please i cant take this any longer)