Metagame BDSP NU (Mesprit Ban @ Post #111)

[Pokeslice]

After playing around a bunch in the current meta, I had some thoughts I wanted to share when it came to building in the current meta. As we all know by now, the tier is full of threats on threats on threats, and having certain Pokemon or cores on your team can make life significantly easier. So far, thanks to the combo of Normal-types and Sceptile being insane, every team I make currently has some combo of a Rock-type+Grass-type, which actually allows for viable team structures in my experience. Without that core, it becomes extremely hard to check everything in the tier. Anyways, here are my favorite of each typing so far.



I love Meganium right now. A super solid bulky Grass-type that refuses to die and has a nice movepool to support a team through stuff like Leech Seed and Aromatherapy while also spreading status in Poison Powder. On top of all this, Meganium's bulky SD set seems fantastic so far, and is well worth considering for a slot. Besides just countering almost all Sceptile, Meganium is a soft check to just about every special attacker in the tier, including the likes of Mr. Mime and Gorebyss. I highly recommend, and I REALLY wish it had Dragon Tail right now.



On the Rock-type side of the spectrum, Regirock is clearly one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Between SR and T Wave, it can seriously support a team, all while walling the likes of Tauros and basically every other physical attacker in the tier. It's super splashable and super good at what it does. You can't go wrong here. I want to point out that, in order to check Normal's, there is one other reliable way I've found. A combination of a Ghost-type+Hitmonchan often accomplishes the same thing on more offensive teams, albeit slightly less consistent defensively.

 

[Stories]

VR made with Aawin Danny Phantomistix assuming the bullshit like Linoone and Gorebyss gets banned

S Rank

Blatantly too strong with incredible speed and coverage to boot. Leaf Storm OHKO's too much and SD can also sweep unprepared teams.
Teams are lucky to even have one mon that isn't at least 2HKO'd by Jynx and the one that does just gets put to sleep.
Ghosts are notoriously broken in BDSP because there's no Pursuit, Haunter is no exception. As you can see with this and the aforementioned, speed is a huge factor in viability in an young tier.
Insanely powerful with great coverage and priority, and the highly coveted Rapid Spin; very splashable Pokemon.

A Ranks

A+






A





A-

B Ranks

B+









B











B-

C Ranks

Please note this is a personal VR for a very underexplored metagame :)

 

[Hpdsd]

When is this tier going to become playable without challenging someone?

 

[mark6870]

Been playing with mons and thought about these mons:

This is a monstrous offensive threat between Specs and Life Orb, and it’s very easy to lose to it considering only the disappointing Ninjask, Electrode, and Dugtrio outspeeds it. Sceptile‘s ability to run mixed, physical, or special sets makes it nigh-impossible to counter and very easy to preserve until late-game or use as a wallbreaker.

Also a tremendous offensive juggernaut between Sheer Force-boosted Rock Climb + coverage moves, a great speed tier (and most faster aren’t very good). The lack of resistances and lesser speed tier will make it less, but nevertheless still a premier wallbreaker.


While manual sun is a far cry from Drought (as the only Sun setter is the paper-thin Vulpix), I feel it still has some decent benefits. For one thing, the only weather to disrupt Sun, which already dislikes switching into Victreebel’s Sludge Bomb or Shiftry’s +2 Dark Pulse. Victreebel and Shiftry outspeed Abomasnow in the first place, making it even more deterring. There’s also Fire-types like Charizard that can abuse Sun to good effect as well.

I haven’t seen much discussion on this but it’s definitely better than Golem (except for the lead slot) thanks to running Leftover sets better and simply higher stats all-around. It’s a really good Tauros check and offers more offensive presence, though I still feel it, alongside fellow competitor Regirock, tends to get worn down very quickly, mandating Heal Bell support from Miltank. Choice Band sets also make it a nice wallbreaker.

Probably usable but I‘m still disappointed how it’s so middling even here. Sure, it has a decent Speed tier, high Attack, and a variety of coverage choices, but base 95 is pretty crowded in a tier filled to the brim with fast wallbreakers and pivots, and with only Wild Charge as STAB it trades with the opposition in the majority of times i’ve played. Manectric, Rotom formes, and even Raichu gives Electivire serious competition for the offensive Electric-type slot!

this is really annoying to deal with if you don’t have a steel-type like probopass but Belly Drum sweeping can be extremely deadly against prepared and unprepared teams alike. Definitely a Pokemon to watch out for.

I ran a max SPA electivire in RU to decent effect, with tbolt/flamethrower/eq/ice punch, seeing how it's just got a better special stab than physical. Ice punch and eq still 2hkoed or OHKOd many of the electric type switchins such as Nidoqueen or torterra and down here I expect the same.

 

[demirab1]

I want to share a defensive core that I have been using. I originally built it back in Jan 27th with some tiering speculations I made based on my observations while playing RU. (click on a sprite for the sauce)

Regirock Analysis

- Regirock sets rocks and checks the powerful normal and flying types of the tier: Tauros, Kangaskhan, Ursaring, Zangoose, Fearow, Dodrio, Scyther.

- Earthquake (for Skuntank) and Drain Punch (for the aforementioned normal types) are valid coverage options.

- Thunder Wave is a utility option to help make progress.

- Regirock gives free entry to ground types so make sure to pair it with a grass type.

Skuntank Analysis

- Skuntank defogs and spreads toxic, ultimately outlasting most rocks setters (except Gligar).

- Heavy hp and spdef investment allows Skuntank to check all ghost and psychics in the tier: Haunter, Drifblim, Dusknoir, Kadabra, Jynx, Mr. Mime, Exeggutor.

- Flamethrower/Fire Blast are valid for sniping Mawile and Toxicroak. But honestly, you most likely don't need this.

- Skuntank has an alternative set with Nasty Plot + Taunt for stallbreaking. However, stall is rare and most likely has a Gligar to counter Skuntank.

Lanturn Analysis

- Lanturn is a defensive pivot for specific threats: Raichu, Manectric, Rotom-Frost, Rotom-Fan, Magmortar, Charizard.

- Lanturn threatens most ground types with a Scald burn so usually it can safely pivot around.

- Thunder Wave can cripple something to help make progress. Amnesia is primarily for Nasty Plot Raichu and Rotoms but also allows Lanturn to secure a win in an end game scenario involving only special attackers on the opposing side. Rest + Sleep Talk over Ice Beam is also valid.

- Lanturn is precious and deep down everyone knows that it is great:

General Analysis, Teams, Replays

This core is extremely weak to offensive ground types. I expect that Pokemon like Marowak, Camerupt, Rhydon get used more soon to abuse balanced cores of this sort. Depending on the rest of the team, fighting types like Hitmonchan and Toxicroak can also be difficult to deal with.

My preferred team composition for this core is as follows:
(Regirock + Skuntank + Lanturn) + (Grass type) + (Fire type) + (Ground immunity)

---

https://pokepast.es/dc35900efcbf0da0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspru-1502566247

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1503004534

---

https://pokepast.es/bd0c3844344e4965

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1503025732

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspnu-1503623650

---

 

[TTK]

Making this super quickly since I got lectures and such to catch up on but either way, time to list some mons I believe the posted VR above failed to mention (no slight to them) but you shouldn't forget about them since they are actually good.



Now Rapidash has access to Swords Dance, which it didn't have in DPP and despite losing access to Wild Charge, its best way of dealing with water types, it still does have High Horsepower to absolutely destroy Lanturn and other bulky waters like Pelipper and Poliwrath take good damage from Double Edge. The speed tier is solid too. Only problems of course is the frequency of Regirock around, who still doesn't care about +2 High Horsepower, the need for LO which hurts it since its main STAB is recoil too and not to mention the rocks weakness but Regirock isn't the hardest mon in the world to deal with.


Did we forget about these 2 lovely fish that somehow have shells to smash? I think rn I prefer Huntail because out of the two, it can threaten Lanturn easier with a Body Slam at +2 if chipped. They aren't the most splashable setup sweepers though since they are slow and most common scarfs should be able to outspeed them at +2 (speed+ natures speedtie with base 80 scarfers lul) meaning it's not the toughest task to stop their sweep but under the right circumstances, they can win games.


Choice Specs Glaceon is the hardest hitting special attacking mon in the tier. The combination of Ice Beam + Freeze Dry is very hard to handle defensively in the tier, such that I have a list of mons in the tier that resist that combination.

16 fully evolved mons and I can say only Regice and Trashdam switch in safely at all times. Lapras is also included since it's pretty fat but it kinda sucks. None of these also have reliable recovery other than Rapidash. The fires get bopped by Water Pulse, the same applies to Bastiodon and Probopass and then everything else finds themselves getting 2hkod after rocks. Of course it faces major competition with the likes of Jynx and Frostom, which sport higher speed tiers and setup opportunity with Nasty Plot, they also have secondary typing and better offensive movepools. Glaceon may not be top tier but it's a mon you should be careful of since these switchins aren't too many.


I'll group them together but yeah no surprise weather is a powerful force in the tier. Sun has the luxury of having top tier mon regirock as a consistent starter sun setter with rocks + explosion. Victreebel is silly ofc, Growth + grass/fire coverage is nigh unwallable and it doesn't have Venusaur as its buddy but it does have Shiftry + Zard backing it up and Zard this time has a even lower power level tier to prey upon. Rain on the other side is probably slightly weaker imo but still, has the Swift Swim mons bar Kabutops plus Thunder Raichu.

 

[Aawin]

Making this super quickly since I got lectures and such to catch up on but either way, time to list some mons I believe the posted VR above failed to mention (no slight to them) but you shouldn't forget about them since they are actually good.



Now Rapidash has access to Swords Dance, which it didn't have in DPP and despite losing access to Wild Charge, its best way of dealing with water types, it still does have High Horsepower to absolutely destroy Lanturn and other bulky waters like Pelipper and Poliwrath take good damage from Double Edge. The speed tier is solid too. Only problems of course is the frequency of Regirock around, who still doesn't care about +2 High Horsepower, the need for LO which hurts it since its main STAB is recoil too and not to mention the rocks weakness but Regirock isn't the hardest mon in the world to deal with.


Did we forget about these 2 lovely fish that somehow have shells to smash? I think rn I prefer Huntail because out of the two, it can threaten Lanturn easier with a Body Slam at +2 if chipped. They aren't the most splashable setup sweepers though since they are slow and most common scarfs should be able to outspeed them at +2 (speed+ natures speedtie with base 80 scarfers lul) meaning it's not the toughest task to stop their sweep but under the right circumstances, they can win games.


Choice Specs Glaceon is the hardest hitting special attacking mon in the tier. The combination of Ice Beam + Freeze Dry is very hard to handle defensively in the tier, such that I have a list of mons in the tier that resist that combination.
View attachment 404053
16 fully evolved mons and I can say only Regice and Trashdam switch in safely at all times. Lapras is also included since it's pretty fat but it kinda sucks. None of these also have reliable recovery other than Rapidash. The fires get bopped by Water Pulse, the same applies to Bastiodon and Probopass and then everything else finds themselves getting 2hkod after rocks. Of course it faces major competition with the likes of Jynx and Frostom, which sport higher speed tiers and setup opportunity with Nasty Plot, they also have secondary typing and better offensive movepools. Glaceon may not be top tier but it's a mon you should be careful of since these switchins aren't too many.


I'll group them together but yeah no surprise weather is a powerful force in the tier. Sun has the luxury of having top tier mon regirock as a consistent starter sun setter with rocks + explosion. Victreebel is silly ofc, Growth + grass/fire coverage is nigh unwallable and it doesn't have Venusaur as its buddy but it does have Shiftry + Zard backing it up and Zard this time has a even lower power level tier to prey upon. Rain on the other side is probably slightly weaker imo but still, has the Swift Swim mons bar Kabutops plus Thunder Raichu.

On mobile so I'm just quoting the whole post, but just wanted to address the personal vr Tog, Danny, Phantomistix, and I made

When we were making our personal vr as we blatantly left gorebyss off due to conflicting opinions on the mon- not because we forgot about it (wasn't my decision but I went with it), same goes for huntail iirc- it was late at night so obv there's going to be some things that were left off bc of us being tired lmfao

There's some mons like Rapidash and Glaceon that weren't ranked strictly bc we hadn't ran up any test games with those to get a grasp on how good they actually are and didn't want to rank stuff we weren't entirely familiar with. You bring up solid points though and these mons def seem good enough to throw onto the personal vr eventually, especially w Glaceon

As the meta develops and we get more knowledge on how shit plays out, I'd imagine Togkey will edit the post to reflect that or just reposts it with the new edits to correlate with these developments

 

[Phantomistix]

Making this super quickly since I got lectures and such to catch up on but either way, time to list some mons I believe the posted VR above failed to mention (no slight to them) but you shouldn't forget about them since they are actually good.



Now Rapidash has access to Swords Dance, which it didn't have in DPP and despite losing access to Wild Charge, its best way of dealing with water types, it still does have High Horsepower to absolutely destroy Lanturn and other bulky waters like Pelipper and Poliwrath take good damage from Double Edge. The speed tier is solid too. Only problems of course is the frequency of Regirock around, who still doesn't care about +2 High Horsepower, the need for LO which hurts it since its main STAB is recoil too and not to mention the rocks weakness but Regirock isn't the hardest mon in the world to deal with.


Did we forget about these 2 lovely fish that somehow have shells to smash? I think rn I prefer Huntail because out of the two, it can threaten Lanturn easier with a Body Slam at +2 if chipped. They aren't the most splashable setup sweepers though since they are slow and most common scarfs should be able to outspeed them at +2 (speed+ natures speedtie with base 80 scarfers lul) meaning it's not the toughest task to stop their sweep but under the right circumstances, they can win games.


Choice Specs Glaceon is the hardest hitting special attacking mon in the tier. The combination of Ice Beam + Freeze Dry is very hard to handle defensively in the tier, such that I have a list of mons in the tier that resist that combination.
View attachment 404053
16 fully evolved mons and I can say only Regice and Trashdam switch in safely at all times. Lapras is also included since it's pretty fat but it kinda sucks. None of these also have reliable recovery other than Rapidash. The fires get bopped by Water Pulse, the same applies to Bastiodon and Probopass and then everything else finds themselves getting 2hkod after rocks. Of course it faces major competition with the likes of Jynx and Frostom, which sport higher speed tiers and setup opportunity with Nasty Plot, they also have secondary typing and better offensive movepools. Glaceon may not be top tier but it's a mon you should be careful of since these switchins aren't too many.


I'll group them together but yeah no surprise weather is a powerful force in the tier. Sun has the luxury of having top tier mon regirock as a consistent starter sun setter with rocks + explosion. Victreebel is silly ofc, Growth + grass/fire coverage is nigh unwallable and it doesn't have Venusaur as its buddy but it does have Shiftry + Zard backing it up and Zard this time has a even lower power level tier to prey upon. Rain on the other side is probably slightly weaker imo but still, has the Swift Swim mons bar Kabutops plus Thunder Raichu.

We thought about rapidash but when you consider omnipresent regirock, sceptile getting EQ, qwilfish being VERY good, rhydon and golem being very solid, and gligar, teams are very well prepared for rapidash. Add to that the lack of defog mons and the rocks weakness + having to take lifeorb and recoil every turn makes it very poor atm.

We opted not to rank gorebyss because we assumed it’s getting banned. Huntail might be interested but like you mentioned it’s extremely slow, and literally every single viable scarfer outspeeds it, with most having access to electric coverage.

Glaceon is very powerful offensively but the pure ice type and poor speed tier make it very hard to fit. Especially when you consider 90% of offensive mons in a higher speed tier have a way to hit it super effectively, and when you factor in rocks you just can’t do much. You say the fire types get bopped by water pulse, I say factor in sun and think again, not to mention they bop you first. It probably is a B- mon at best imo.

Castform is a pure MU fish, and even then it offers very little offensively, and it’s bulk isn’t anything to speak of. Playing a 5v6 into anything other than weather is far from viable.

 

[AstilCodex]

Making a VR with the assumption of mons getting banned already, said a metagame for the next month is already weird tho. Atm I dont see why Gorebyss should get banned, with lanturn being everywhere. Goverage narrowed to Water and Ice only, susceptible to priority and slower than scarfers like Haunter and electrics. As Ttk said I think Huntail its better now cuz its access to do damage Lanturn better. Also disagree with Jynx being so high for the same reasons. More so with being weak to rocks and hazard removal being so little. And idk if Im blind but you ranked Combusken and Flareon but not Magmortar lmao

 

[TTK]

Castform is a pure MU fish, and even then it offers very little offensively, and it’s bulk isn’t anything to speak of. Playing a 5v6 into anything other than weather is far from viable.

I wasn't making a case for castform btw, it was just for my model to show rain and sun or I would've mentioned it in text. Also thanks for the responses. I can understand a lot of top tier stuff like you guys mentioned making Rapidash have a hard time. I think I'm also in the space of "why Jynx so high?" Personally I have not used it yet but it does have a lot going for it, probably our best offensive psychic tbf.

 

[Phantomistix]

I wasn't making a case for castform btw, it was just for my model to show rain and sun or I would've mentioned it in text. Also thanks for the responses. I can understand a lot of top tier stuff like you guys mentioned making Rapidash have a hard time. I think I'm also in the space of "why Jynx so high?" Personally I have not used it yet but it does have a lot going for it, probably our best offensive psychic tbf.

I see what you meant about weather. We have the sun mons ranked, mostly in A-. We haven't seen anyone mess with rain so didn't rank it but it does have potential, although it seems weaker on paper. Counterplay includes abomasnow, which checks most abusers (unlike sun abusers) and resets weather. Sleep powder being on some of the sun abusers also makes it much more potent as a weather archetype.

Making a VR with the assumption of mons getting banned already, said a metagame for the next month is already weird tho. Atm I dont see why Gorebyss should get banned, with lanturn being everywhere. Goverage narrowed to Water and Ice only, susceptible to priority and slower than scarfers like Haunter and electrics. As Ttk said I think Huntail its better now cuz its access to do damage Lanturn better. Also disagree with Jynx being so high for the same reasons. More so with being weak to rocks and hazard removal being so little. And idk if Im blind but you ranked Combusken and Flareon but not Magmortar lmao

Jynx is one of the strongest mons in the tier due to its excellent speed tier, access to lovely kiss, nplot and substitute for setup opportunities and to avoid priority from revenge killing, and its superb SpA stat and STAB combination. It partners extremely well with Hitmonchan, another S rank mon, due to chan learning spin and breaking past stuff it can't get past on its own.

Flareon was not ranked as an offensive mon, rather a defensive one with access to wish and an immunity to fire. It makes for excellent counterplay to sun teams with it's considerable special bulk, and still has a strong enough atk stat to do damage without investment. It is not comparable to Magmortar in any way. However, we definitely overlooked Magmortar while making the VR and it's probably a very solid B tier mon with its strong SpA and colorful movepool. I don't think it would be higher due to how easy it is to revenge kill with the abundance of fast physical breakers. Dying to +2 sludge bomb from Victreebel also sucks for its sun MU.

 

[AstilCodex]

Jynx is one of the strongest mons in the tier due to its excellent speed tier, access to lovely kiss, nplot and substitute for setup opportunities and to avoid priority from revenge killing, and its superb SpA stat and STAB combination. It partners extremely well with Hitmonchan, another S rank mon, due to chan learning spin and breaking past stuff it can't get past on its own.

Yh I know what Jynx does but still interesting to me that you value it that big of a threat to put it in S. Speed tier isnt that amazing and I would say it will struggle to find a time to setup because of how frail it is. Dry Skin can help it and also sleep, great dual stab that is hard to switch into but its easy to check offensively. So even with those assets I am not convinced its an S mon. We'll see

 

[Stories]

The whole point of making a VR was to create discussion, so I’m really happy with how that turned out. We did miss a couple key mons like Magmortar and Rapidash (although personally I think they’re not great anyway), and I know there are many other Pokemon with wrong placements or are simply not ranked at all that should be, and I will update the list as the meta develops.

I placed Jynx in S because after playing so many different people and team styles, Jynx has dominated all of them. It requires very smart play due to its frailty but with Dry Skin and some key resistances it can bring itself in and again, 2HKO the entire metagame, and whatever it doesn’t immediately and safely KO, it can put to sleep.

The only reason Hypno is so high is because of its ability to check Jynx, so we’ve acknowledged its checks.

 

[Pokeslice]

BDSP NU Sample Teams
After talking it over with a few members of the community, it was decided that we should compile some sample teams for this brand new tier. Thank you to all contributors and enjoy! Teams are in the sprites :)

- E Belt Electivire by Meri Berry

- CB Floatzel by Pokeslice

- Specs P2 by glock in my toyota and jawabarat

- Sub Leech Jumpluff by Pokeslice

- Agility P2 by jawabarat

- Electric Spam by Pokeslice

Outdated Teams

Linoone HO by SpacialRendevous

KangaSpikes by Pokeslice

Tauros Balance by Meri Berry

Manual Sun by Corthius

Sub Kiss Jynx by Togkey

Toxic Orb Zangoose by AstilCodex

Specs Mr. Mime by TONE

Flareon Stall by Eve

- SD Gligar by Meri Berry

- Sub Disable Haunter Balance by Danny

- Double Ground Bulky Offense by Meri Berry

- Choice Band Floatzel Balance by Slingshot279

- Toxic Spikes + Wrap Chimecho Offense by Aawin (as seen on aim YT)

- Future Sight + Choice Band Toxicroak by Togkey

Feel free to send any teams you feel deserve to be samples our way through this form! For any off meta, fun, or otherwise nice teams, the BDSP Team Bazaar is open for business.

Currently ACCEPTING submissions.​

 

[5Dots]

More thoughts!

Mr. Mime is not only a surprisingly strong offensive threat, it is also an excellent dual screens setter with filter and an excellent fairy-typing. I’ve lost to it multiple times simply because I underestimated its unique qualities. Access to Healing Wish also makes it valuable even when dual screens aren’t needed anymore, which is especially valuable considering how strong offense is right now. The high special bulk is also a selling point, as it usually has the bulk to take at least one hit (LO Leaf storm KOes it, though) and be guaranteed to set up a screen against most special attackers.


If you want a top-notch counter to Hitmonchan and Tauros, this is it. NU has few viable Ghosts, and this is likely the best defensive one. Unlike Drifblim, Dusknoir is not weak to Stone Edge and can use the opportunity to either Wisp or call out a switch with Substitute. The lack of Knock Off and Pursuit in the tier hugely benefits Dusk, as it can more reliably wall threats over the course of a game. Most physical threats won’t be able to break it without risking a burn or switching into a strong special attacker, giving it some merit on defensive builds. With investment to physical/special bulk, it can take a lot of hits from the likes of kangaskhan or jynx. Offensive sets I feel would be nice if it had Poltergeist, but its only decent Attack and lack of viable Ghost STAB inclines me to lean towards defensive sets.


Use something else for utility. I thought it would’ve been nice for Defog + Thunder Wave alongside Serene Grace shenanigans, but it’s too passive to warrant usage. It could be usable, but i feel it just doesn’t do enough without eviolite help.


Excellent as a late-game sweeper, this is another mon I feel should not be underestimated. The Sole viable mon to get Shell Smash, I feel it makes an interesting candidate on hyper offense, especially when paired with Mr. Mime.


Billy Mays here with the best offensive Sceptile check in the meta! Offering a 4x resistance to its stab, a resistance to focus blast, and a neutrality to earthquake and the mediocre x scissor, victreebel offers a lot of role compression despite its offensive stat spread. Indeed, compared to other sap users, victreebel offers knock off for utility and swords dance to become a dangerous wincon. While sadly ohkoed by tauros most of the time, I feel it still deserves exploration for these unique qualities.


Even with Body Press to its arnesal, the additional rock typing makes it much worse at handling the meta. It would’ve been a decent tauros, zangoose and Sceptile check, but with all the earthquake and focus blast running around, it often gets ohkoed instead which prevents it from doing its job. Sturdy might be nice to get up a guaranteed thunder wave, volt switch, or stealth rock, but its terrible special attack makes its questionable if it can do anything else. Even if tauros or Sceptile leave, I still find it hard to justify using it over wormadam-T of all things.
————————————————————
While it’s a relatively new meta, hyper (and generally standard) offense already appears to be the wave, as tauros, Sceptile, and multiple other wallbreakers make it tough to run bulky or even balance builds. And that’s my thoughts for now!

 

[Barraskeon]

BDSP NU is the fourth usage-based tier for Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. This thread will be the hub for all resources and discussions, including Viability Rankings, suspect tests, quickbans and general conversation about the format as it develops. This format can currently only be played by directly challenging other players.

RULES
Mechanics: Battle mechanics are identical to those in Pokemon Sword and Shield, with the exception of Dynamax being removed. Any items introduced after Generation 4 with in-battle effects, excluding Pixie Plate and Roseli Berry, are unavailable.
Clauses: Smogon-wide Clauses apply.
Available Pokemon: Pokemon #001-493 are available, with the exceptions of Celebi, Deoxys, Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus. This does not include Alolan/Galarian formes or Mega Evolutions.
Bans:

• All OU bans apply.
• OU: Alakazam, Azelf, Azumarill, Blissey, Breloom, Clefable, Crawdaunt, Donphan, Dragonite, Feraligatr, Garchomp, Gengar, Gliscor, Heatran, Infernape, Jirachi, Latios, Latias, Lucario, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Manaphy, Rotom-W, Scizor, Skarmory, Staraptor, Starmie, Tangrowth, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Weavile
• UUBL: Salamence
• UU: Ambipom, Arcanine, Blastoise, Bronzong, Cloyster, Cresselia, Crobat, Ditto, Drapion, Entei, Espeon, Flygon, Froslass, Forretress, Gardevoir, Gyarados, Heracross, Hippowdon, Honchkrow, Metagross, Mew, Milotic, Mismagius, Nidoking, Porygon-Z, Quagsire, Raikou, Registeel, Roserade, Rotom-Heat, Rotom-Mow, Salamence, Slowbro, Snorlax, Suicune, Swampert, Tentacruel, Umbreon, Yanmega, Zapdos
• RUBL: Drought, Kingdra, Venomoth
• RU: Absol, Aggron, Chansey, Claydol, Cradily, Exploud, Gallade, Gastrodon, Hariyama, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, Houndoom, Jolteon, Kabutops, Kingdra, Machamp, Mantine, Medicham, Mesprit, Moltres, Nidoqueen, Ninetales, Omastar, Primeape, Rhyperior, Rotom, Sableye, Sharpedo, Slowking, Spiritomb, Steelix, Swellow, Torterra, Uxie, Vaporeon, Venomoth, Venusaur, Vileplume, Xatu

RESOURCES
Sample Teams

BDSP Simple Questions, Simple Answers
BDSP Metagames Discord
More resources will be added over time.

Please don't make extremely short posts and/or simple questions! These will be deleted. Use the Discord or Simple Questions thread, both of which are linked above.

i know its a short comment but venomoth is in the RU and the RUBL list now maye remove that?

 

[hop.]

Some decent mons that I haven't seen talked about yet:

yeah

kingler things (Kingler) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Razor Shell
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off / Brick Break / Agility
- Swords Dance

Easily revenge killed, but the only things walling this are bulky grasses (Poliwrath can wall Knock Off/Agility variants). This nails every other defensive mon in the tier (and its phys bulk means Regirock isn't doing too much damage back). A niche scenario is Probopass tanking one hit and pivoting out if it's already in on Kingler, but it won't KO. Kingler is one of the mons that benefits the most from screens, as its just-okay Speed is mitigated by its decent physical bulk under them.

Genuinely surprised me with how solid it was.

Leafeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wish
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Blade
- Protect

As a Sun sweeper, Leafeon is still outclassed by Victreebel, Bellossom and Exeggutor; however, in this far less powercreeped environment, it's both a great support mon and can tank a lot of physical hits with minimal Defense investment. It's the only mon with both a fast Leech Seed and Wish, and Leaf Blade off 110 attack isn't bad at all (2HKOs Lanturn with no Attack investment). Will get a lot better as soon as the incredibly powerful Normals are inevitably banned (and when GoreTail are hopefully banned cause I don't like them).

This one was talked about before, but I love how this plays in this meta.

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Hasty Nature
- Wild Charge / Volt Switch
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
- Ice Punch

The lower power level lets Electivire actually make an impact. Its stats are great in this meta, and its amazing coverage makes an Expert Belt set highly effective, constantly forcing switches and punching holes in teams left and right. If you're adept at making predictions, Electivire is your best friend, though it may require a bit of building around as it has little defensive utility. Outspeeding Zangoose is always nice, too.

Now,

The Guy

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Bold Nature
- Circle Throw
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Poliwrath @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Waterfall
- Bulk Up

Poliwrath @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb / Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Waterfall
- Drain Punch
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide

Poliwrath is versatile and really easy to fit on teams imo. These are my three favorite sets. It's a Normal answer with RestTalk, a monster behind screens with SubPunch, and a pretty good Rain wallbreaker. Give it a try and you'll find some type of use for it.

 

[hop.]

Oh, forgot to mention:

I better not see anyone sleeping on the plant

Bellossom @ Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

My favorite bulky sweeper, here to make cleaning incredibly easy. The set speaks for itself: bulky, qdance, strength sap. The available Steel-types are bad (some are making a case for trash worm) and the Poison-types that check it are simple to account for, so coverage is not a big issue.

 

[Team Rocket]

Are you guys only playing this tier through challenges? I haven't had a chance to experience any games so far, the ladder is unavailable.

 

[Pokeslice]

Are you guys only playing this tier through challenges? I haven't had a chance to experience any games so far, the ladder is unavailable.

Yeah right now we’ve been challenging each other, and if you pop into the NU or BDSP room asking for games, someone will play!

 

[Pokeslice]

After spamming games for the past week or so, I had some thoughts on some Pokemon I wanted to share, especially in regards to some of the "brokens". I weirdly think this meta is balanced, even though there are some Pokemon that need to go. Almost everything has multiple viable checks of some kind or ways to solidly outplay a Pokemon. It's been a ton of fun to build and play.



I don't think Sceptile is broken in the meta. Is it very good? For sure. But the ease with which you can fit checks onto a team, whether a Poison-type like Skuntank or Weezing, the multiple viable Grass-types in the tier like Meganium, Victreebel, and Bellosom, or other random checks like Trashdam, make it so that it isn't really a strain in the builder or in game. The high amount of priority and the multiple viable Scarfers in the tier also help negate its faster speed tier and keep it in check. After using it a lot, I just haven't been impressed in the way I was day 1.



Gorebyss was another one of those Pokemon that people, including me, thought would be insane. The problem is, just like with Sceptile, a lot of the meta right now keeps it in check. Even with Ice Beam, Grass-types will be consistent checks, and Lanturn will just blank you every time. Also, unlike Sceptile, Gorebyss isn't particularly fast, finding it hard to set up on Pokemon and not get revenged by any Scarfer, and once again, the high distribution of priority in the tier. Even behind Screens, I found Gorebyss inconsistent and wallable, and I don't think it's broken at the moment.



Linoone is another one of those Pokemon who can seemingly snowball in a second and just win games, but I think it's a lot less consistent than its made out to be. In my experience, Linoone is super awkward to use. It's middling bulk doesn't allow for easy set up, and it really does struggle to set up in the tier more than other Pokemon. It can also be hard to sweep in a tier where Haunter has quickly seen use as both the main Scarfer and just an overall threat. If you're looking for an offensive answer that isn't Haunter, Kangaskhan is really good into Linoone teams, or offense in general. I think Linoone should probably go at one point just because it's a bit of a toxic presence, but I do think it's a bit worse than people are saying it is.



Yeah Jynx is stupid. The combo of Sub+Lovely Kiss with base 95 Speed can often win games on the spot by sleeping the check, Subbing up to avoid priority, and either spamming its dual STAB or NPing up and then spamming a move into a tier with almost no Ice or Psychic switch ins. Is it S tier? Nope, sorry, it doesn't add anything defensively or is splashable enough for that, but it's very good and deserves to be banned at one point.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

A Pokemon I wanted to talk about

Kingler is an absolute monster. 130 base Attack + Sheer Force means it hits like an absolute truck. Even though it lost Liquidation it gained (I think, might've had it already) Razor Shell, so it still has a Sheer Force boosted physical Water move. As a wallbreaker, it's one of the strongest in the tier - it's one of those Pokemon that if they get in safely, something's going to die. Which with VoltTurn all over the place, getting it in safely isn't hard at all. Wallbreaking's not all it can do though. Slap on Agility, and you can clean late game too.

 

[AstilCodex]

Yeah Jynx is stupid. The combo of Sub+Lovely Kiss with base 95 Speed can often win games on the spot by sleeping the check, Subbing up to avoid priority, and either spamming its dual STAB or NPing up and then spamming a move into a tier with almost no Ice or Psychic switch ins. Is it S tier? Nope, sorry, it doesn't add anything defensively or is splashable enough for that, but it's very good and deserves to be banned at one point.

Ok I hate to keep bringing the contrary but it still surprising to me that you and others see this are the same level or even above prominents threats like the first two you mentioned before. First time I was talking from a theoretical point of view as the tier had just started. But now with the Jynx hype I've been testing it too and I havent found it so opressive, or opressive at all tbh, neither fighting with it or against it. Sleep is scary on paper but you can play around it and its not that powerful alone. I used it on a build and then ended up replacing with Mime and it went a lot better.
I would honestly like to see Jynx replays if you could (or anyone else in the Jynx train) cuz from what I've played its far from what you have been putting it here. Thats why it has me surprised.

Regarding Sceptile I still find it the most stupid mon currently as how versatile it is and splashable on teams cuz of its ridiculous speed tier and so on. And that hasn't changed.

 

[Stories]

Ok I hate to keep bringing the contrary but it still surprising to me that you and others see this are the same level or even above prominents threats like the first two you mentioned before. First time I was talking from a theoretical point of view as the tier had just started. But now with the Jynx hype I've been testing it too and I havent found it so opressive, or opressive at all tbh, neither fighting with it or against it. Sleep is scary on paper but you can play around it and its not that powerful alone. I used it on a build and then ended up replacing with Mime and it went a lot better.
I would honestly like to see Jynx replays if you could (or anyone else in the Jynx train) cuz from what I've played its far from what you have been putting it here. Thats why it has me surprised.

Regarding Sceptile I still find it the most stupid mon currently as how versatile it is and splashable on teams cuz of its ridiculous speed tier and so on. And that hasn't changed.

I can't help but feel the exact opposite in your Mime and Jynx comparison but I respect and understand your opinion. I do agree with you that Sceptile is very crazy and forces bulky Grasses.
I think that common opinion for a potential ban slate would be Sceptile obviously, and potentially Haunter, Jynx, and one of the broken Normals like Tauros, Linoone, or Zangoose (I don't really think the Normals are broken but ik people who do think that and the complaints are valid).
For Jynx I really think being able to just put your check to sleep is incredibly broken, forcing 2 checks on a team can end up being incredibly restricting and sleep itself is broken anyway, and Jynx is one of the most powerful Pokemon in the tier with an amazing offensive typing.

 

[RetroBacon]

Yeah Linoone seems to be kinda nasty so far. And also, it does that little? :C, I guess a different example for smth that could hit would be Skuntank and Toxicroak.

Yeah, EQ is just not worth it on Dusknoir in general. You're better off playing with Pain Split/Wisp mechanics.