Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings

I woudint mind greninja moving down. Bulky pokemon and scarfers can beat it most of the time, and LO lacks staying power while focus sash lacks power. But once bulky pokes and scrafers are eliminated, greninja CAN do works. B/B- seems to fit pretty well
 

cant say

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If aegislash is running min speed, rhyperior hits it with eq as it sword dances, then rhyperior outspeeds and kills it before it can use sacred sword or iron head.
I'm a little disappointed you only acknowledged that part of my post coz I worked hard on the rest :(

I'm still not sold, considering how uncommon fully physical Aegislash is (compared to special / mixed). More often than not, Aegi will have some sort of special coverage move to make use of its Weakness Policy.

+2 4 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 205-243 (92.3 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

If it misses the OHKO it will just pick you off with Shadow Sneak

+2 4 SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 307-364 (138.2 - 163.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I think Relaxed 0 speed Rhyperior would be better so it can underspeed Brave / Quiet Aegi, avoid giving it its WP boost and kill it in Blade-forme. Of course then you can't use Rhyperior to come in and revenge kill an Aegislash that has already boosted as it will outspeed and kill you, so I dunno, all I'm seeing is that Aegislash beats Rhyperior...
 

Feliburn

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I'm a little disappointed you only acknowledged that part of my post coz I worked hard on the rest :(

I'm still not sold, considering how uncommon fully physical Aegislash is (compared to special / mixed). More often than not, Aegi will have some sort of special coverage move to make use of its Weakness Policy.

+2 4 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 205-243 (92.3 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

If it misses the OHKO it will just pick you off with Shadow Sneak

+2 4 SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 307-364 (138.2 - 163.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I think Relaxed 0 speed Rhyperior would be better so it can underspeed Brave / Quiet Aegi, avoid giving it its WP boost and kill it in Blade-forme. Of course then you can't use Rhyperior to come in and revenge kill an Aegislash that has already boosted as it will outspeed and kill you, so I dunno, all I'm seeing is that Aegislash beats Rhyperior...
I liked your post btw lol, also your review on Rhyperior made it clear that it should be B rank, given the fact that it can beat many pokemon thanks to its bulk but not really a balanced pokemon, your Aegi vs Rhyperior post just proves that.
 

Hulavuta

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Agreeing with Goodra for at least B or B-. It has really insane Special Defense, especially with Assault Vest, so it's a good all-purpose check to special attackers and has good coverage and good special attack so it can take them out in return. Lack of boosting and lack of recovery means it's prone to getting walled itself though, for example something like Mega Venusaur or Porygon2 will come out on top because they can heal and Goodra can't. It also can be taken down by common physical attackers like Garchomp and Kangaskhan.
 

EnGarde

Not Dead Yet
How will this thread grow to accomodate ORAS battle spot? Will we keep ORAS viability rankings in another thread, or will we try to put them together here?

In that vein, I'd like to nominate mega salamence for S-Tier in ORAS. Mega'mence has strong attack stats (both of them), and can hit so very hard with either thrash or return. The only things that resist both of Mega'mence's STABs are steel types and dedenne. Pair this with great speed and defense, plus workable special defense, and you've got the makings of a top tier pokemon.

(EDIT: will wait until ORAS is released)

I'd like to nominate regular salamence for either A- or B+. It has strength and power, however all of its niches are covered arguably better by other pokemon. For intimidate support, you've got landorus-t, mega mawile, and gyarados/mega gyarados. For ddance sets, you have mega gyarados and mega charizard x, one of which gets mold breaker after mega evolving, making for a more consistent ddancer, and the other gets tough claws to further boost attacks. As a special attacker, it faces competition from hydreigon in particular, which has a higher special attack stat.
 
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Feliburn

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How will this thread grow to accomodate ORAS battle spot? Will we keep ORAS viability rankings in another thread, or will we try to put them together here?

In that vein, I'd like to nominate mega salamence for S-Tier in ORAS. Mega'mence has strong attack stats (both of them), and can hit so very hard with either thrash or return. The only things that resist both of Mega'mence's STABs are steel types and dedenne. Pair this with great speed and defense, plus workable special defense, and you've got the makings of a top tier pokemon.

I'd like to nominate regular salamence for either A- or B+. It has strength and power, however all of its niches are covered arguably better by other pokemon. For intimidate support, you've got landorus-t, mega mawile, and gyarados/mega gyarados. For ddance sets, you have mega gyarados and mega charizard x, one of which gets mold breaker after mega evolving, making for a more consistent ddancer, and the other gets tough claws to further boost attacks. As a special attacker, it faces competition from hydreigon in particular, which has a higher special attack stat.
Let's not nominate unreleased pokemon yet Garde, and I think they'll try to fit the new ORAS megas in another post.

About Salamence, A- looks good, it has an amazing movepool, both physical and special sets demolish on the Singles meta.
 
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Salamence in A- seems good. Ive used DD set before and it did a lot of work. Moxie is a really useful ability, and having a 110 SpA makes running a mixed set extremely viable. Like Feliburn said, it has a strong move pool, and can really do lots of work. Ice shard kind of wrecks it though, and with other DD users like megazard X and Gyarados available i don't think it should go to A+ or S.
 

Hulavuta

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Since it was brought up: most likely we will be renaming this thread "XY Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings" and then creating another for ORAS rankings. There are going to be two separate metagames as far as I know, so this thread will still have a purpose. It wouldn't make sense to rank them together, as they are very different, and a Pokemon will have different degrees of viability in each metagame depending on the other Pokemon in it.

EDIT: This is just a heads-up though, if you wanna talk about it don't talk about it here, send me and Age of Kings a PM or VM.
 

Jibaku

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I'd like to bump Latios to B. Since it seems like we're being more lenient with the tiering, Latios is by no means a bad Pokemon. One of its strengths is how synergistic its typing + ability is with some Pokemon - most notably Steel types such as Heatran, Scizor, and Mawile, to cover up a variety of types. Latios also holds the distinction of being one of the few offensive Pokemon to be able to check both Garchomp and Rotom-W without resorting to a Scarf, enabling it to deal more damage. Of course, though, it has a ton of issues but it does plug up a decent amount of teambuilding issues as well, and is still strong enough to 2HKO most of its checks with the proper move.

As a followup I'd like to throw Latias in for discussion. Latias is similar to Latios but provides a distinct advantage: Healing Wish. It is important to note that Latias is the only fast Healing Wish user in the game (don't say Lopunny or Chlorophyll lilligant - those are pretty much unviable), and with that quality, the user is able to better dictate when to pull the trigger. Also, unlike Cresselia, Latias actually does some damage. Latias pairs exceptionally well with Mega Mawile as a result, synergizing both typewise and the fact that Mawile is one of the best recipients in the game for a "second life" due to its devastating strength and lack of counters.

The set is:
Latias @ Rocky Helmet / Choice Specs / Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Speed / depends on item
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Thunder Wave / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]

252 SAtk if Specs/LO, some combination of HP

If you need a strong offensive threat go with Specs/LO. Otherwise, Rocky Helmet allows Latias to check Kangaskhan as it doesnt really have a common way to damage Latias without resorting to contact, and Latias is able to survive upwards to Jolly Double Edge.

I haven't used this set myself but I've seen it work. What do you guys think?
 

cant say

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I liked your post btw lol, also your review on Rhyperior made it clear that it should be B rank, given the fact that it can beat many pokemon thanks to its bulk but not really a balanced pokemon, your Aegi vs Rhyperior post just proves that.
Hehe thanks for the support

But wait, how did I prove that Rhyperior is B worthy? I definitely think I was trying to disprove that. I 100% agree with what Jibaku said on the previous page, it seems like the tierings are starting to get a bit lenient, just because you like a Pokemon / it's one of your favourites / it's worked for you a few times but isn't proven in the big picture doesn't mean it is A-B rank. S = OP, A = staples, B = very solid but just not good enough for A, C = too good to be gimmicks but too niche to be B. I strongly believe Rhyperior to be C rank (at best) as it serves a niche as a physical check to a few choice Pokemon. Yes, some of the things it can check are A rank (or higher), that does not justify it to be 'a solid Pokemon that is just not good enough for A' but 'a niche Pokemon that is too good to be classified as a gimmick.'

Sejun Park won VGCs with Pachirisu, you don't see people arguing for that to be S tier, he just made it work for him...
 
are we gonig to keep this thread and update it when the new megas come out or will we make a new thread for ORAS? (i'm wondering the same for doubles)
 

Hulavuta

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Yes I did, and it is really weird that you ask considering you liked the post where I explained it. Again, this is not the place to talk about it.
 
I'd like to bump Latios to B. Since it seems like we're being more lenient with the tiering, Latios is by no means a bad Pokemon. One of its strengths is how synergistic its typing + ability is with some Pokemon - most notably Steel types such as Heatran, Scizor, and Mawile, to cover up a variety of types. Latios also holds the distinction of being one of the few offensive Pokemon to be able to check both Garchomp and Rotom-W without resorting to a Scarf, enabling it to deal more damage. Of course, though, it has a ton of issues but it does plug up a decent amount of teambuilding issues as well, and is still strong enough to 2HKO most of its checks with the proper move.

As a followup I'd like to throw Latias in for discussion. Latias is similar to Latios but provides a distinct advantage: Healing Wish. It is important to note that Latias is the only fast Healing Wish user in the game (don't say Lopunny or Chlorophyll lilligant - those are pretty much unviable), and with that quality, the user is able to better dictate when to pull the trigger. Also, unlike Cresselia, Latias actually does some damage. Latias pairs exceptionally well with Mega Mawile as a result, synergizing both typewise and the fact that Mawile is one of the best recipients in the game for a "second life" due to its devastating strength and lack of counters.

The set is:
Latias @ Rocky Helmet / Choice Specs / Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Speed / depends on item
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Thunder Wave / Surf / Hidden Power [Fire]

252 SAtk if Specs/LO, some combination of HP

If you need a strong offensive threat go with Specs/LO. Otherwise, Rocky Helmet allows Latias to check Kangaskhan as it doesnt really have a common way to damage Latias without resorting to contact, and Latias is able to survive upwards to Jolly Double Edge.

I haven't used this set myself but I've seen it work. What do you guys think?

Im defiantly gonna try out these two. Cant say much right now since i need ORAS to get my hands on them, but looks like something to consider. Also...

Voting Porygon2 for A. One of the tankiest pokes in the metagame. Perfect toxic staller, and combined with recover, can wear down threats without much problem. On top of that it can be hard to predict since it can run mixed, physical or special wall. It even has good enough coverage and SpA to be run offensively. Knock off is a big weakness tho, so A- or one of the Bs might be more fitting. Any thoughts?
 

ethan06

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Alright, I've lurked this thread long enough (besides that showdown usage comment), time to make an actual nomination.

Excadrill
- B+/A-

I've been playing with Excadrill a far amount recently, and it's actually a pretty versatile and powerful Pokémon. As a physically offensive Ground-type, it is fairly outclassed by Garchomp and Landorus-Therian; however, it has some advantages over both that can make it worth using. It has access to the coveted Mold Breaker Earthquake, which makes a Scarf set a very good answer to Gengar, Rotom-W and weakened Cresselia. It can also remove Fairies thanks to it's STAB Iron Head, and has usable bulk to come in on the myriad of resisted hits that it's great defensive typing affords it. Mold Breaker isn't it's only usable ability: Sand Rush can be used alongside a Tyranitar (or a Hippowdon) to create the infamous "ExcaTar" offensive core, which works just as well in the Battle Spot as it does in OU. Sand Rush invalidates the need for a Scarf and allows it to use a more useful offensive item, such as a Life Orb or an Air Balloon (a move that also significantly reduces prediction vs. Flying types thanks to no choice-locking). However, Rotom-W and Gengar turn from targets into checks for Excadrill, as it can no longer hit them super-effectively and fears Will-o-Wisps from both. Skarmory and Ferrothorn are hard counters to Excadrill's moves, so Magnezone or Magneton (depending on Exca's ability - two Choice Scarves is banned in Battle Spot thanks to Item Clause) make good teammates to Excadrill. Exca's typing gives it a full immunity to Poison status and an immunity to Thunder Wave, making it a good switch-in for these statuses. Running a Fire-type and a Grass-type and/or Safety Goggles Pokémon takes care of the other two, giving you solid switch-ins to most status spammers. I think B+ or A- would be a good spot for this Pokémon as it does have a couple of stops and has common weaknesses that can be exploited by anything that outspeeds or isn't KOed, but is otherwise very effective in the XY Battle Spot Singles metagame.
 
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Fluffy Pup (Arcanine) (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp

This guy deserves a spot on the list, B+ or higher for sure.

Will-o-wisping the big physical threats that are abundant on BSpot and then punishing them with rocky helmet. E-speed for quick finishes after morning sunning up to full to be ready for his next switch-in. Thunder fang/wild charge are viable options to replace flare blitz, to have both an offensive and defensive counter to talonflame ^_^
 
Anyone ever used Noivern yet? It has a huge move pool, filled with power moves like Draco Meteor to support options like taunt and Super Fang. It also has a huge amount of speed, allowing it to bypass the common 100-115 speed tier, and even outpace Greninja. Although it does suffer from a 4x Ice Shard weaknesss, and fails to deliver a large amount of damage without Choice Specs or LO. Heres a basic set:

Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: NaN Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Air Slash/Hurricane
- Flamethrower
- Switcheroo/U-Turn

On a side note, anyone else find XY battle spot kind of lacking in battles? I haven't gotten a battle in weeks.
 

Jibaku

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^Would've been a solid sweep by Furfrou if it didnt play so badly (not knowing Rest's sleep count is a big thing here).
 
Since it's been a good while I'd like to come in here and bring up Mega Blastoise.




Blastoise @ Blastoisite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs:252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef
Modest/Calm Nature
- Scald
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

There are very few things that can win 1v1 against this thing, and when Battle Spot Singles has a natural tendency to force these 1v1 encounters he proves it by being able to OHKO a huge amount of the game, tank practically any hit so he can slam the opponent back, and destroys most walls. His tendency to pass burns around scares away physical attackers and overall he's hard to switch into for almost anything/ He pairs up fantastically with most Dragons as well as fast Revenge Killers like Talonflame and Greninja who can clean up when he's done, and he isn't complete food for Mega Gengar. He does admittedly have an issue with his lack of recovery and a few Pokemon like Mega Venasaur, Azumarill, and Mega Kanga can give him some trouble, but honestly he's just too solid to go unlisted. At the least he has a C+, but honestly I'm tempted to push him to a B-.
 
Since it's been a good while I'd like to come in here and bring up Mega Blastoise.




Blastoise @ Blastoisite
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs:252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpDef
Modest/Calm Nature
- Scald
- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

There are very few things that can win 1v1 against this thing, and when Battle Spot Singles has a natural tendency to force these 1v1 encounters he proves it by being able to OHKO a huge amount of the game, tank practically any hit so he can slam the opponent back, and destroys most walls. His tendency to pass burns around scares away physical attackers and overall he's hard to switch into for almost anything/ He pairs up fantastically with most Dragons as well as fast Revenge Killers like Talonflame and Greninja who can clean up when he's done, and he isn't complete food for Mega Gengar. He does admittedly have an issue with his lack of recovery and a few Pokemon like Mega Venasaur, Azumarill, and Mega Kanga can give him some trouble, but honestly he's just too solid to go unlisted. At the least he has a C+, but honestly I'm tempted to push him to a B-.
I agree on all points. It is bulky, strong. Doesnt have recovery and some things wall it like bulky fairies as sylveon and florges. I think mega sceptile ohkos it but im not completely sure. I agree with B-.
 

Nalei

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I know that Rhyperior was mentioned quite recently and I have a "bit" of input there. I'd like to nominate it for something like Rhyperior for B. It, in my opinion, is one of the best blanket checks and anti-meta pokemon available. The first set I'd like to discuss is an anti-meta Custap.

Rhyperior @ Custap Berry
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP/80 Atk/132 Def/44 SpD
Brave Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Wrecker
- Counter
- Stealth Rock/Fire Punch/Megahorn/Rock Blast
This set, while odd, checks and counters an incredible amount of common pokemon. It, in a 1v1 situation, beats Kangaskhan (non-Low Kick), Aegislash, Azumarill, Garchomp, Charizard X, Talonflame, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Gyarados (non-mega), Mega Mawile, Terrakion, Thundurus-I, Zapdos, Blaziken and a variety of lower-ranked pokemon. After finishing off many of these pokemon, it will find itself in Custap range, allowing it to get one last hit.

Rhyperior @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 80 Def / 68 SpD
Brave Nature
- Metal Burst
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Avalanche
This Metal Burst Rindo set, while also an odd set, is also a great counter to many common pokemon. It beats the following S and A ranked pokemon: Kangaskhan (non-Low Kick), Aegislash, Azumarill (usually), Garchomp, both Megazards, Talonflame, Ferrothorn, Landorus-T and I, Gyarados (non-mega), both forms of Gengar, Mawile, Thundurus, Zapdos, Breloom (sometimes) and many lower tiered pokemon. Because of this, it's a great anti-meta pokemon.

Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 164 HP/252 Atk/92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn/Avalanche/Poison Jab
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm
This Choice Banded set makes for a great wall breaker and, again, an anti-meta pokemon. It can beat Kangaskhan, Aegislash, Azumarill (Poison Jab), Garchomp (Avalanche), Charizard X, Gengar, Talonflame, Cresselia (Megahorn), Ferrothorn, Landorus-T, Mawile, Terrakion, Thundurus, Zapdos, Blaziken and lots of lower-tiered pokemon.
 

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