Baton Pass My A$$ - The Offical RMT and B/W Baton Pass Guide

[Hiphiphooray]

Update: Added X&Y change log at the bottom of the post. Check out all the new buffs to the team!

EDIT 1: In reference to PMs

To those contacting me via inbox, I apologize for not responding in a timely manner. I rarely check smogon, and when I do it will be through this thread. If you still have questions, comments or concerns, please leave them on this thread and I will contact you with a better way of getting in touch with me (probably email). Thanks for the support and help during this team building process! Hope you all enjoy the new, updated guide ;)

EDIT2: Baton Pass misconceptions and the RMT archive

Apparently no Baton Pass teams are allowed in the RMT archive.

No Baton Pass teams in the archive. They don't take any skill to use and it is not a "well-built metagame changing team" at all.

I highly disagree with this. While I am biased from having played Baton Pass, I would argue that Baton Pass teams are very different now than what they used to be and throughout my article I have provided some examples of how my team has impacted the metagame. There are several types of Baton Pass Teams (Chains, QuickPass, and Defensive) and the only viable ones in B/W are Defensive teams like mine presented below. This team builds like a stall team focusing on defensive stats, but functions like a volt-turn team, using Baton Pass as a way to constantly stay ahead of your opponent. The enemy team is withered down by residual damage and until it is safe for my late game sweeper to be brought in.
Anyone willing to nominate a volt-turn team or a stall team should at least take defensive baton pass teams into consideration. Many ideas about Baton Pass taking no skill or being gimmicky are based on QuickPass or Chain teams, which are a thing of the past. Try my team, and you will see that it is not the same as the Baton Pass teams we have grown to hate from previous generations. While this team can be very effective, I think you will find that skill is required and its not as gimmicky as it is stereotyped to be.

Introduction:
Hey guys, Hiphiphooray here. I came to these forums a while back with an earlier version of this same team that had some pretty major flaws. The idea worked, but needed major revision in order to compete at the top of the ladder. Anyway, after a long time of testing I came to what I believe is truly the best baton pass team for the current B/W OU meta. And apparently a few others agree, as they have encouraged me write this official guide for the RMT archive and to share the fun (or annoyance) of Baton Pass!

(if you have already seen my previous RMT, then skip to the bottom to see the major change logs)

This team does work, and I have laddered to the top several times on many different alternative accounts during the testing phase. From the beginning of my testing, I had fewer counters and could climb the ladder easily. However, the success of this team has truly impacted the metagame in my opinion. It has inspired the reemergence of Baton Pass in B/W (which had been deemed outdated at the start of B/W) and now almost every Politoed now runs Perish Song in hope to beat Baton Pass. I’ve also heard that Ninjask’s usage has gone up so much that it is on track for being OU when the next tiers are made. Anyway, regardless of whether you love or hate Baton Pass teams, this RMT should provide some insight into the advantages and weaknesses that are associated with Baton Pass teams.


The Team Overview:

This team takes a new approach to Baton Pass that hasn't really ever been around until B/W. Traditional Baton Pass teams revolved around acquiring boosts and getting to a receiver that can sweep with ease. Alternatively, with the introduction of shell smash, B/W began using the method of quickpassing that would get to a sweeper faster than the opponent could bring out a Pokemon to stop it. Yet the list of counters to Baton Pass chains is huge, and continues to grow. This Baton Pass team is what I like to call a Defensive Baton Pass team.

In a Defensive Baton Pass team, every Pokemon serves as a counter to some threat and there is no true “sweeper.” The team is made up of a physical and special defensive core, each consisting of two Pokemon. With two special walls and two physical walls the typing can be staggered in order to provide a strong defensive Pokemon able to setup against the opponent. Scizor and Vaporeon make up the physically defensive side, each able to switch in freely to a strong attacker and setup defensive boosts as they switch or continue to attack. Likewise, Mr. Mime and Zapdos serve as the specially defensive core, both able to setup freely on special attackers while Mr. Mime also has the added ability of stopping Perish Song. Espeon serves as a reliable sweeper through the coverage supplied by Stored Power and Hidden Power, but also serves as a counter to status and phasing moves. And lastly, Ninjask serves as an effective lead that is able to gain reliably gain +3 speed, which then allows my team to outspeed the entire OU tier. Speed is crucial to this team, because once the enemy brings in a threat, you can easily Baton Pass to the appropriate wall and keep a Substitute up to protect yourself.

The Team In Depth:

Ninjask @ Mental Herb

Trait: Speed Boost

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

IVs: 0 Atk

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Protect

- Substitute

- Toxic

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

In order to stay on the offensive in a Baton Pass team, you need to make your enemy constantly trying to ruin your chain. The easiest way to stay ahead of your enemy is to out-speed them. Thus, we introduce Ninjask:

Anyone who sees a team with a Ninjask knows what to expect. While some might think this makes your team more vulnerable, I believe it helps by making the enemy immediately play defensive and try to disrupt your chain. Ninjask is always the lead Pokemon, regardless of whatever the enemy sends out. His only purpose is to get off three or more speed boosts. Three is the ideal number here as it allows your entire team to out-speed the majority of the OU tier.

The set I run on Ninjask is designed to get me three speed boosts at the least, and with the right prediction I can often make it out with a substitute still up as well. Protect is used to avoid Choice Scarf Trick users, Fakeout users, Whirlwind, Roar, etc. Protect also works to stall for speed boosts as well as to allow Toxic more time to damage the enemy Pokemon. Substitute is used as a stall technique as well. Toxic complements Ninjask well in this set because there are many Pokemon who attempt to setup on Ninjask while he stalls for speed. If anyone tries to stat boost alongside Ninjask, Toxic works well to force them to switch or die as I stall them out. Toxic also helps to defeat Sableye, Cloyster and the rare Shedinja. It also works well against Politoed or anyone who can switch in freely and force a Baton Pass. The given EVs provide the maximum defensive bulk with the necessary speed to out-speed any Choice Scarf Pokemon after a single protect.


Checks and counters:

• Trick: Prevented by Protecting on the first turn. Always Protect if the enemy lead could possibly have Trick.
  
• Taunt/Encore: Mental Herb allows one escape. Three speed boosts and a substitute can be made by using protect, sub, protect, baton pass. Baton Pass to Espeon after to reflect the move
  
• Whirlwind/Roar: This is one of the harder leads to challenge. Usually I Substitute the first turn as they Stealth Rock. Then I Protect as they try to phase. If the enemy team does not have any fast Pokemon then you can Baton Pass to Espeon or Mr. Mine after, otherwise it is often worth it to attempt a second protect (50% chance to work) and get the third speed boost to outspeed choiced Latias.
  
• Perish Song: One of the hardest counters to Baton Pass on paper, and is now very common on Politoed. Against Politoed lead I normally Protect first turn (Choice Scarf Politoed can out-speed and have a chance to 1HKO Ninjask with Icebeam) then Substitute and Protect again. If they Perish Song right away then I normally swap to Vaporeon to tank or absorb the hit, and then Substitute until they switch. Once they switch I baton pass immediately back to ninjask in order to gain the speed boosts. Once they switch back to Politoed, I can out-speed them and swap to Mr. Mime. From there you can stall until they switch out and go back to Ninjask again to acquire more speed, or continue with the chain if not needed. This strategy works because Politoed leads don’t have stealth rock so Ninjask can be reused.
  
• Priority moves: The most dangerous is Ice Shard, but it can be tanked once as long as it isn’t Choiced Banded Mamoswine (which is extremely rare on a lead and can be determined mostly by the team composition). The easiest way to avoid priority moves is to Protect, tank the hit and Substitute (no priority move will should do more than 75% with he given EVs unless choiced) and then Protect again and Baton Pass out as they finish the Substitute off. The only exception to this is Scizor or Weavile leads, which often run Sword Dance and attempt to setup while Ninjask is stalling. If you see a Scizor, always Substitute on the first turn. If they Sword Dance you can continue to stall by using Protect and Substitute, since they will break the Substitute and you will immediately replace it.
  
• Prankster: Prankster Taunt is the one thing that absolutely rapes Baton Pass. Mental Herb provides a single speed boost at least, but this isn’t enough. You will need to deal with the Prankster asap and without speed. Specific threats such as Sableye are mentioned later at the bottom of the post.

Tips and tricks:

• Ninjask can Substitute exactly 4 times. But be careful in sandstorm and hail!
  
• Try to change up the use of Substitute and Protect. Alternating between Protect and Substitute over and over is predictable and often the enemy will catch on and only attack during the Substitute phase. Often times using Substitute twice in a row will throw the enemy off and end you up with a free Substitute. Leads will often try to Stealth Rock as you Protect, so try to Substitute as they do this.
  
• Use your Mental Herb to get a free Substitute if the enemy does not have priority Taunt.
  
• Toxic twice if they have a Lum Berry, it’s normally worth it because if they get off more than 2 boosts you will be swept regardless. But don’t bother trying to Toxic if the enemy Pokemon could have Rest. Instead just get the minimum amount of speed you need and get to a counter asap.
  
• Speedboost takes place at the end of the turn. Baton passing to Ninjask will cause a single speed boost that takes place at the end of that turn.
  
• Ninjask can tank a U-turn very nicely. If the enemy is using U-turn, substitute with Ninjask to tank it and keep up a free Substitute
  
• Ninjask is a flying type! Use it to your advantage. When your Substitutes keep getting broken by earthquake try switching to Ninjask to get a free speed boost. You can then swap back to your original Pokemon and tank the enemy’s other attack. Often times it won’t break the Substitute like the ground move would have, which allows a free stat boost.
  
• Lastly, always check Ninjask’s health and the presence of Stealth Rock before swapping to him. He takes 50% HP from Stealth Rock and will be left with 1 HP if switching in. If the enemy gets a Stealth Rock down, don’t Substitute more than once if you can avoid doing so. This will let you start your chain over if it gets ruined at some point later on.
  
• The more speed boosts the better. It gives Stored Power extra damage!

Espeon @ Red Card

Trait: Magic Bounce

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

IVs: 31/2/30/30/30/30

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Hidden Power [Fighting]

- Stored Power

- Morning Sun

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

Espeon is by far the only reason this team works. Without Espeon to bounce back Whirlwind, this team would fail. Therefore, keeping Espeon alive is the key to success. Maximum defensive EVs allows Espeon to tank Skarmory and Hippowdon and strike back with Stored Power or Hidden Power.

In my previous team, Espeon was a special wall running Calm Mind, but I found that having both Mr. Mime and Espeon running similar sets was pointless. Also, by having defensive EVs Espeon can better handle those physical attackers that run Whirlwind. Red Card allows Espeon to beat the vast majority of Pokemon that try to setup alongside my team, such as Calm Mind Jirachi, who can’t even be killed with Stored Power. Red Card also allows you to force out problematic Pokemon such as phasers. In general, Red Card Espeon is a very strong new addition to this team, giving a new way out against many Pokemon that would have otherwise swept the team. Simply tank the hit and healing up with Morning Sun or Baton Pass to counter whatever is dragged out.


Checks and counters:

In general Dark type Pokemon bother Espeon, as they are Immune to Stored Power and can retaliate with strong STAB Dark attacks. A few in particular are listed in the Specific Threats area. Ghost Dark types are even more annoying, as they can’t be hit with Hidden Power either. Skarmory and Hippowdon are also bothersome, but with a few speed boosts and the right prediction you can beat them. By baiting the Whirlwind or reflecting the Stealth Rock, you can force them to take damage switching in, breaking Skarmory’s Sturdy and killing it with Stored Power. Skarmory does have STAB Brave Bird, but is often easier as Morning Sun can out-heal it. On the otherhand, Hippowdon’s Sand Stream causes more of an annoyance, but luckily most players run Roar over Whirlwind, which allows Mr. Mime to Encore Roar and setup freely.

Tips and tricks:

• Stored Power is extremely powerful. It can kill almost anything even when you don’t have that many stat boosts. Don’t forget to use it when the kill is easy.
  
• Remember that Stored Power is Physic and STAB. Many Poison/Fighting/Grass type threats can be killed with Stored Power with only the minimum three speed boosts. Stored Power early on can eliminate Breloom, Keldo, Conkeldurr, Venusaur, and Gengar. Espeon especially eliminates Breloom and Venusaur, who can threaten your team with Spore or Sleep Powder.
  
• Use Magic Bounce to your advantage, do not fear any status! You can reflect Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, and Spikes as well as Leech Seed, so do this if possible.
  
• Avoid tanking any damage from moves with secondary effects. Specifically Scald and Haxrachi can status Espeon and severely hurt it.
  
• If the enemy team has Skarmory with Whirlwind, prioritize defensive boosts over anything else, since tanking Brave Bird is a key to success

.

Scizor @ Leftovers

Trait: Light Metal

EVs: 220 HP / 248 Def / 40 Spe

IVs: 0 Atk

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Roost / Bullet Punch (if running Bullet Punch change IVs, Nature and Trait)

- Iron Defense

- Substitute

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

Physical walls on Baton Pass teams require Iron Defense / Acid Armor and obviously Baton Pass. Of the few Pokemon who can run a similar moveset, Scizor’s typing and stats simply make it the best. It can tank most any physical attack except fire moves, which are rare. Iron Defense is obviously used to boost physical bulk of my team and Roost allows Scizor to stay alive when up against Choiced or stat boosted physical attackers. Roost is probably the easier move as opposed to running Bullet Punch, as it allows you to use Scizor to tank many Pokemon over and over. It also helps against level 1 Aron as well as Kyurem-B, who is surprisingly walled by Scizor (given that it only running Ice Beam as a special attack). However, by playing with this team so much, I now know exactly the damage Scizor can take and deal, and have found Bullet Punch to be very rewarding for beating Pokemon such as Shell Smash Cloyster. Either will work, but remember to change the Nature, Trait and IVs appropriately.

The given EVs allow Scizor to outspeed choiced Latias and Venusaur in the Sun at a +3 boost. This eases prediction and allows a few extra chances to setup behind a substitute.

Checks and counters:

Special attackers can easily kill Scizor (except Kyurem-B and other Ice Pokemon). Volt switch can be treated similarly to U-turn on Mr. Mime, Substituting forces the threat out, dealing only 25% damage and allowing you to face off against a lesser threat. Scizor’s biggest weakness is fire type physical attacks and mixed attackers. Victini, infernape, Darmanitan, and Arcanine can all be dealt with by Vaporeon. If they are choiced, always substitute first in order to avoid switching Vaporeon in on something like Fusion Bolt or Wild Charge. As far as mixed attackers go, the most notable threats are Infernape, Tyranitar, or Salamance with Fire Blast. These can also be handled by Vaporeon, which shows the great defensive typing between the two.

Many Pokemon such as Scizor and Weavile will try to setup on your Scizor with Sword Dance. If this is the case, you can normally beat them with Vaporeon Burn, or Espeon’s Red Card.


Tips and Tricks:

• Keep a substitute up at all times when possible. Critical hits are common and will rape through your defenses.
  
• If you switch to Scizor to tank Tyranitars STAB Dark attack, always Substitute to scout the possibility of Fire Blast.
  
• As a steel type Scizor is resistant to Poison and Dragon attacks. This makes Scizor very important for beating Toxic Spikes (if you can’t reflect them with Espeon) since he can switch in, Substitute, and then Baton Pass to another Pokemon who will avoid the Toxic Spikes if behind the Substitute when entering. Scizor is also ideal in beating Dragon tail, since the Dragon attack is not very effective and you can Substitute easily and Iron defense to +6. Lastly, this is also very important against Clear Smog, as Scizor is immune to it.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 244 HP / 224 Def / 40 Spe

IVs: 0 Atk

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Acid Armor

- Substitute

- Scald / Surf / Roar

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

Vaporeon is one of those Pokemon you simply can’t pass up in a Baton Pass chain because of its good defensive stats and typing. As a mixed wall it can tank both physical and special attacks easily, and even tank super effective Thunderbolts and Wildcharges if needed. Vaporeon’s Substitutes are extremely bulky and can tank two Seismic Tosses, which is useful for setting up a Substitute for another Pokemon. Acid Armor is used to allow Vaporeon to deal with the few physical threats that Scizor can’t handle. The last move can vary, but I personally run Scald to allow Vaporeon to burn and eliminate Sword Dance and Bulk Up threats. Other possibilities include Wish/Aqua Ring/Roar. Many users of my team have sworn by the use of Roar to phase other sweepers, but I don’t like the idea of not having the extra attacks outside of Espeon. There are many games when I sweep with Vaporeon, because it can simply wall the majority of Pokemon with its huge 101 Subs and scald can deal insane damage at +6 (especially in the rain!)


The given EVs allows for maximum physical bulk while still being able to outspeed choiced Latias and Venusaur in the sun at +3. I personally use Water Absorb over Hydration because it allows Vaporeon to wall Gyarados extremely well and switch in on many attacks for a free heal. It also makes Keldo a joke, as it can Acid Armor to beat Sacred Sword and heal from Surf/Hydro Pump. This ability also helps against Perish Song Politoed, since once Perish Song takes effect you can switch in Vaporeon safely and setup on Politoed. Lastly, Hydration really isn’t needed since most status’s can be avoided with Substitute anyway.


Checks and counters:

Vaporeon is weak to Volt Switch and Thunderbolt, but that’s about it. Grass type attacks also hurt, but are rare. In both cases, Vaporeon can tank a single hit if needed. Switching to Mr. Mime is often a strong choice because Electric and Grass attacks are not strong enough to break a Substitute. Zapdos also aids against electric attacks. Physical threats to Vaporeon can be handled by Scizor.


Tips and tricks:

• Vaporeon’s Scald/Surf is very powerful, especially after a few Calm Mind boosts or in the Rain. Don’t underestimate its power – use it to get free kills when you can. Especially versus frail special attackers like Gengar, Alakazam, and even Magnezone.
  
• If Taunt or a status is inevitable, let Vaporeon be the one to tank it. As a good mixed wall with massive HP, a Taunt from behind a Substitute is often not a problem, since the time spent to switch to a counter and break the Substitute will leave the enemy with only a single hit on you, which will rarely result in a 1HKO. Meanwhile, they have taken several STAB Scald’s to the face, and should be near death or Burned.

Mr. Mime @ Leftovers

Trait: Soundproof

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef

IVs: 0 Atk

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Encore / Barrier

- Substitute

- Calm Mind

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

Mr Mime is on this team specifically for Sound Proof. It blocks Roar and Perish Song, as well as the common bug special attack (Bug Buzz) that would otherwise be super effective. Mr. Mime is my primary special wall and can tank many special attacks. Calm Mind until the enemy attacks deal less than 25% damage, and then Substitute to get a free Calm Mind off.

Calm Mind is obviously used to amplify the special walling abilities of Mr. Mime. Substitute helps with prediction as well as allows for easy Calm Minds once the enemy attacks deal less than 25%, since a single attack won’t break the Substitute. Encore is preferred to allow prediction to be rewarded. You can Encore status moves, Roar and weaker attacks to setup freely. Also, Encore is my go to move to beat setup users like Calm Mind Jirachi. Once you can outspeed the enemy Pokemon, you can continuously Encore them into the setup move while you setup yourself. Once you are done setting up, you can Encore once more, switch into Espeon freely, and then kill them with the stronger Stored Power, or allow Red Card to take its toll.

Alternatively, Barrier can be used to help against Hippowdon running Roar. However, Encore can work just as well if you are good at predicting. If you are new to Pokemon, you may find Barrier easier, but Encore is definitely encouraged at higher rankings.

On teams with Perish Song, you must prioritize Mr. Mime’s health. Switching in every time Politoed is in, only to receive a STAB Hydro Pump, is just bad prediction. You need to dry pass and try to catch the Perish Song user on the switch. Specifically, if you dry pass and see they have not switched, go to another wall. If they have switched, you can always send in Espeon or Zapdos to simply kill it, or scare it off. If they run, you are still damaging their team and will eventually kill them off.

Checks and counters:

Many physical attackers can destroy Mr. Mime, so switch appropriately. Although if the enemy is presenting the threat of U-turn, using Substitute will force them out to another Pokemon, that poses no threat. At this point you can get a free stat boost as they switch to another Pokemon. Another specific threat is physical priority moves. If you are using Substitute and Calm Mind boosting at low health levels, be extremely careful of a Scizor switch in to kill you with a priority Bullet Punch. Keep a Substitute up as needed or switch out before you become dangerously low health. STAB Shadow / Dark / Bug special attacks can easily 2HKO Mr. Mime. Switch to Zapdos to deal with these.

Tips and tricks:

• As soon as the enemy Pokemon deals <25% with a basic special attack, use substitute. Otherwise, just Calm Mind and pray for no critical hits.
  
• Bug Buzz deals no damage to Mr. Mime due to Sound Proof. This is very important when fighting against Volcarona. You can Calm Mind alongside the Quiver Dance from behind a Substitute. If they ever use Bug Buzz, Encore it immediately! A smart player will be forced to use their fire attack, which can be easily tanked. Once you have a fresh Substitute, switch to Espeon or Vaporeon to tank the attack and bait a Bug Buzz. If they are faster from Quiver Dance you will have to kill them with Stored Power or tank the hit and heal up with Morning Sun as Red Card switches them out. Alternatively, if they haven’t setup yet or you are still faster, try to bait the Bug Buzz and switch into Mr. Mime to Encore them for eternity.
  
• Encore: Roar, Bug Buzz, and pretty much any setup move unless the enemy has a priority attack (Scizor with Bullet Punch).

Zapdos @ Leftovers

Trait: Pressure (wow if Lightning Rod wasn’t Illegal…)

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef

IVs: 0 Atk

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Charge

- Substitute

- Thunderbolt / Roost

- Baton Pass​

Summary / Checks and Counters / Tips and Tricks

Summary:

Zapdos is the newest member to my team, and after a LONG time of testing, I have found that this particular moveset is the best option for dealing with many notable OU threats. With Mr. Mime as my only real Special wall, I needed something to help cover his weaknesses. If you look at the list of Pokemon that can learn Baton Pass, about half are Psychic type and would fall to the same STAB attacks as Mr. Mime. Instead of relying on moves like Light Screen to tank STAB choiced Thunderbolts, Hurricanes, Shadowballs and Dark Pulses, I needed someone to be able to setup on these. Zapdos is that guy, with charge, he can boost his defense against these moves. His typing is perfect to cover Mr. Mime’s weaknesses, and he can even tank the famous Bolt-Beam combo with ease. After using Charge, Zapdos can threaten to kill many Bolt-Beam users or simply setup behind a Substitute. He is my go to Pokemon when against Rain teams, since his Thunderbolt can kill many threats and he isn’t afraid of any water attacks.

The EVs give maximum special bulk and Roost could be run over Thunderbolt to provide an even better tank to Bolt-Beam (since Roost loses Flying type). However, as with Vaporeon and Scald, I find the extra attack to be well worth it. Zapdos also has sweeping potential and is the best option for killing Politoed and Sableye early on.

Lastly, just as a little rant, I really hate that Lightning Rod isn’t legal. If Lightning Rod was legal, Zapdos would be an even greater asset to this team, being able to shut down Volt-switch entirely and setup much more freely. I am currently waiting for Baton Pass to be release on Zapdos again a future generation!

Checks and counters:

Stealth Rock… Yeah, Stealth Rock pretty much destroys this guy. After switching into Stealth Rock he has only so much he can boost his defense, so don’t just throw him in every time you see a potential threat to Mr. Mime. If the opposing team is running a special attacker that could threaten Mr. Mime, then you should definitely attempt to bounce any Stealth Rocks back with Espeon. Zapdos is also weak to Ice moves. While it can tank Hidden Power Ice pretty easily, a STAB Ice Beam can be devastating. Kyurem-B can be taken care of by Scizor and Mr. Mime together, and Starmie can be killed with Thunderbolt.

Tips and tricks:

• As soon as the enemy Pokemon deals <25% with a basic special attack, use Substitute. Otherwise, just Charge and pray for no critical hits.
  
• Charge increases Thunderbolt’s damage by a significant amount. Thunderbolt can already kill many threats like Politoed and Tornadus, but after a Charge it can kill many others as well.
  
• Don’t be afraid of a Taunt if you have a few boosts behind your belt already. Zapdos, like Vaporeon is a good mixed wall, and can dish out some serious damage if needed. Often times I sweep with Zapdos after a few calm minds, or just Charge + Thunderbolt my way to victory.

FAQ:

What about this Pokemon?!

The Neglected Few:

This is a list of a few Pokemon that can learn Baton Pass and seem viable but have been replaced by others for a few reasons:

• Celebi: If any Pokemon would replace Zapdos, it’s this one. Celebi is an amazing Special Wall with resistance to the common electric attacks. It also has access to 101 subs, which is another great thing. Nature Cure also aids against a forced status. However, its typing means it is weak to the same moves as Mr. Mime, which causes a significant problem. Likewise, it is weak to Flying, which makes Tornadus a 100% counter to my team. Zapdos is just better.
  
• Mew: Typing Problems
  
• Gliscor: Immunity to electric is nice, but it can’t pass anything useful. It’s typing is better defensively, but Vaporeon and Scizor are an amazing Duo already.
  
• Smeargle: Smeargle is extremely unique. Before Espeon's Magic Bounce, he was the key to Baton Pass via Ingrain. He can still be put on many teams, but like Ninjask, he is mainly a single use Pokemon. His horrible defenses mean he can rarely switch in without a Substitute already up. Using Focus Sash is a good idea, but only really works when he is acting as a lead, since entry hazards are so common and break his Focus Sash. I've tried many movesets on Smeargle, all of which must include Ingrain and Baton Pass. This leaves only two moves available, and between Spore, Protect and Substitute, he has trouble dealing with all the threats out there - particularly trick users. Once tricked into a Choice Scarf he is useless and you lose your Ingrain. You could try to run a set with Trick on Smeargle, but it still doesn't protect you against faster leads, which there are many. In general, Smeargle is just too frail and requires too much team support to outclass Espeon. He will always have a special place in my heart, but for now I have graciously accepted Espeon in his place.
  
• Togekiss: No useful boosts. Nasty Plot is nice, but I run a defensive Baton Pass team.
  
• Blazekin: Uber - I play OU.
  
• Jolteon: No useful boosts.
  
• Ambipom: No useful boosts
  
• Mienshao: Calm Mind usage is outclassed by Mr. Mime and Espeon. I’ve tried it as a special wall since it can cover Mr. Mime’s typing well, but it is also weak to Tornadus. Acupressure is interesting, but not reliable. It’s just too gimmicky and doesn’t work against players that are smart.
  
• Gorebyss/Huntail: Shell Smash with White Herb is amazing, but I don’t need speed or attack in my team. The required stats would be easily obtained by Nasty Plot, but I prefer boosting defense first. Shell Smash gives a great number of stats for Stored Power, but it’s generally better is a quick pass team, rather than an actual chain. A set without Shell Smash and Iron Defense / Amnesia would be viable, but is generally outclassed by Vaporeon.
  
• Venomoth:Venomoth was on my team for a while with Disable and Quiver Dance. But it’s just really too frail and has to basically die before it can Disable something to setup. It’s just not as good as Zapdos at walling what needs to be walled.
  
• Durant: Physical attacker isn’t needed in a specially oriented team.
  
• Scyther: No useful boosts.
  
• Drifblim: Typing problems.

How do you deal with this Pokemon?!

Specific Threats covered in detail:

• Sableye: Sableye is considered by many to be a hard counter to Baton Pass, but I have a very high win rate against Sableye. Most people lead with Sableye and try to Taunt immediately to force a rage quit. I normally protect the first turn, and then Toxic the second. During the toxic, the player may switch moves in a failed prediction that I would switch. If that’s the case, I protect again, and switch out with +3 boosts as Mental Card is used. If they do Taunt you on turn two, go ahead and switch to Zapdos or Vaporeon (whichever you feel is less needed in the fight later, since it will likely take damage or die) and try to deal some extra damage. I like to try a Baton Pass first, in case they try to attack. If they attack (you will know since it isn’t priority) Baton Pass to Scizor to tank it. Once they try to Taunt, switch to Espeon and reflect it. Basically the goal is to force them to switch in and take damage slowly from Toxic. Don’t be afraid to dry pass a few times in order to catch it with Vaporeon/Zapdos and kill it.
  
• Dragon Dance + Taunt Gyarados / Haxorous: Gyarados with Taunt and Dragon Dance isn’t too scary since it can be walled very easily by Vaporeon. It will only carry Waterfall and Earthquake, and Earthquake doesn’t do enough to hurt it. You can Baton Pass to Ninjask to immune the Earthquake, and get a free Substitute up as he Taunts and you recover with Mental Herb. If he proceeds to attack with Waterfall, absorb it with Vaporeon. Vaporeon can eventually kill a Gyarados with Scald and the burn just makes it too easy. Haxorous is a tougher fight since outrage can do immense damage to Vaporeon even at +6 defense. Vaporeon can kill it faster though, so just get a Substitute up, get taunted, and then attack to try to burn it. If he Outrages, switch to Scizor for a free Substitute, then to Espeon. You can then kill it with Stored Power. You can also use Zapdos to 1HKO Gyarados.
  
• Physical attackers that have Roar (Gyarados / Hippowdon, etc.): These are less common, but probably one of the biggest pains. You will really need to prioritize defense boosts. Do this by sending Scizor or Vaporeon up against a special attacker and Acid Armor as you take a very power special attack (obviously don’t tank something that will 1HKO, but Vaporeon can survive some Thunderbolts if needed). Then Baton Pass out to a special wall and try to get the Roar Pokemon to join in. At this point you can reflect it with Espeon or Soundproof and Encore with Mr. Mime. It will be a difficult match, but with the right prediction you can win. And don’t forget you can 1HKO Gyarados with Zapdos if you predict the switch in.
  
• Shell Smash Cloyster: As this Pokemon becomes more and more common, several strategies have emerged to counter it with this team. The first is to simply pick up Bullet Punch over Roost on Scizor and stop worrying all together, since you can 1HKO it with priority, or 2HKO if it is running Focus Sash. Another Strategy is to Toxic this thing with Ninjask. Then swap immediately to Scizor and stall with Iron Defense / Roost. Luckily you can resist all his moves, which is helpful. If you die you can kill it with Vaporeon’s Scald if you manage to survive the attack. Another Strategy is to boost alongside it with Scizor at the start and once at +6 Baton Pass to Espeon and try to survive with a Red Card. This strategy is a little less safe, since you will be out-sped by a revenge killer and could die from a single crit, but none the less it works.
  
• Choice Scarf Ditto: This thing is so annoying. Immediately Baton Pass once it’s in, because it will Baton Pass to a sweeper faster than you can. Once they send out their sweeper, you can send out yours and defeat them. Yet, if they managed to copy Espeon, do not switch, just attack and kill them. Interestingly enough, when Ditto copies Espeon it gets the Hidden Power type of Ditto, not the one my Espeon has. So where I have Fighting type, the Ditto Umbreon will have Dark (since that’s the 31 base IV type). This might seem like it will hurt you, but Stored Power is significantly stronger after a few Calm Mind boosts. Just avoid this gimmicky Pokemon and try to keep a Substitute up at all times to hard counter it.
  
• Other Pranksters: Espeon can deal with most other Pranksters because of its Magic Bounce ability. Sableye is the most dangerous because of its Dark typing and STAB attack. The only other real common Prankster threat that Espeon has trouble with is Tornadus, which can deal heavy STAB damage. Luckily with one Calm Mind boost and a single speed boost, Stored Power can kill it. Lastly is Murkow, which simply rapes baton pass teams. Its combination of priority Perish Song and Taunt is too much to handle. I have never seen it in play, but if I ran into it I would probably just rage quit. =/
  
• Trick Room Teams: Trick room is a rare move, but can pose a threat if you are unprepared. The trick to beating these teams is to stall until the dimensions return to normal and they are forced to waste a turn setting the trick room up again. Luckily most trick room teams do not have much other threats to Baton Pass teams and are therefore relatively easy. One notable threat would be Reuniclus, who could setup on you while you try to stall. Although even a +6 Reuniclus won't 1HKO you, and you can easily revenge kill with Stored Power if you have at least a few Calm Minds.
  
• Haze: Haze is one of those moves that is very rare but can destroy a Baton Pass team. I honestly believe it’s the only true counter to Baton Pass, as it outclassed by other phasing moves. Anyway, the way I deal with this threat is to dry pass until the hazer is brought out and kill it with Stored Power before it can use Haze. Normally I don't anticipate Haze because it’s so rare, so I end up having to start my chain over before I begin dry passing. At this point it becomes a mind game, but if you manage to catch him on the switch, you can start dealing heavy damage to the enemy team while he tries to protect his Hazer. If he stays in, hopefully you can 1HKO or 2HKO. But in all honesty, this is probably the most annoying check to Baton Pass, but again it is such a wasted move unless you only face Baton Pass teams. Haze is useless on Quagsire with unaware and Politoed is much better with Perish Song and Protect to stall and finish off the last Pokemon with ease.
  
• Clear Smog: Clear Smog is generally a joke threat to Baton Pass teams. The only real carrier of Clear Smog is Amoonguss, which will likely switch in on Scizor to Hidden Power Fire for a kill. Substitute first on Scizor to make sure he doesn't spore or do anything stupid like try to Clear Smog a Steel type (which doesn't work). At this point, if you have a Substitute up or not, Baton Pass to Espeon and just kill it with a Stored Power. If you’re behind a Substitute, feel free to Calm Mind as much as you can before, since his damage is so little and won't break your Substitute easily. A STAB Stored Power is super effective and kills Amoonguss at even low base power levels. Basically it doesn’t do enough damage to be a threat since it can’t break Substitutes.
  
• Dragon Tail: Dragon Tail is basically a stronger version of Clear Smog since it can actually break through Mr. Mime's Substitutes if he lacks +2 defense. The key to beating Dragon Tail is to get to Vaporeon or Scizor as soon as you see a possible threat. Substitute and Acid Armor/Iron Defense until +6 and then use Mr. Mime to gain Calm Mind boosts from behind Substitutes or Baton Pass to someone to kill the threat. It's a rare move and most common is seen on stall Pokemon, who lack the damage to truly threaten Scizor or Vaporeon. Just don't get caught without a Substitute when they switch in! Dry Pass as needed.
  
• Unaware (Mainly Curse Quagsire): Unaware on paper seems to destroy Baton Pass teams, but it actually doesn't. Unaware ignores the enemy's attacking stat boosts when being attacked, but this does not negate them from adding into Stored Power's base damage. Defensive stat boosts still add in as well, making Stored Power still just as strong and able to one shot Quagsire. As they Curse to +6, stay behind a Substitute and continue to stat boost. Espeon will be able to 1HKO it still. An alternative method to kill it, would be to force Quagsire to use his Ground move by sending in Vaporeon to absorb a water attack. At this point you can switch to Ninjask and use Toxic or simply switch in Ninjask while he is cursing and use Toxic and then stall with Protect and Substitute. Stalling is also very easy switching between Vaporeon and Ninjask since you have immunity to both Water and Ground moves, which are his primary STAB attacks.
  
• Red Card: Red Card is fairly rare but another strong counter to Baton Pass. It is primarily seen on Forretress, which attempts to spam every type of entry hazard in the game. Normally when I see a Forretress lead, I get into Espeon as soon as possible to reflect the hazards back. While he uses Gyro Ball to break your Substitute, use Stored Power to get a hit off and use the Red Card early game. Then you can switch back to Ninjask to get your speed and start back up again. Maybe if you are lucky Red Card will switch Ninjask in for you ;)
  
• Mold Breaker + Roar (Haxorous): If you ever run into this, I would be extremely surprised (this set is outclassed by Mold Breaker + Taunt). Nevertheless, it is a strong counter and should be addressed. I won’t go to in-depth, but ultimately you will treat this that same as Haze. You are definitely faster than Roar so you can dry pass until the counter is brought in, and attempt to kill it with whatever stats you may have at the time. Luckily Haxorous isn't too strong defensively.
  
• Dragon Dance, Extreme Speed, Dragon Claw, Fire Punch Dragonite: While this is a very specific set for Dragonite to run, it proposes a significant threat. I am still currently experimenting to find the best way to deal with this, but most of my success has been from either Toxic or a well-timed Red Card.

Changes from previous RMT:

The primary change in my team is Zapdos. I found that I was very weak to a few things: Choice Spec’d Attackers, STAB Electric, STAB Ghost, STAB Dark, and STAB Flying special attacks, and physical attackers running Roar. In order to fix this I first had to make Espeon physically defensive in order to survive Skarmory and Hippowdon. Next I needed a specially defensive partner for Mr. Mime that could survive the attacks that could 2HKO Mr. Mime on the switch. Zapdos provides this exactly as well as having Thunderbolt in order to deal with notable threats of Politoed, Tornadus, and Taunt/Roar Gyarados. I also included Red Card on Espeon in order to counter setup users and gave Scizor and Vaporeon the required EVs to outspeed the entire OU tier at +3. Mr. Mime now runs Encore since Espeon can deal with Hippowdon and Scizor has been running Bullet Punch more frequently in order to provide some early pressure against Cloyster and others. Vaporeon also runs Scald now to help burn some physical threats. Other than those changes, the team is played exactly the same. Switch to your counter and boost until you are safe behind a Substitute and can kill with Espeon. Except, now Zapdos is my special wall over Espeon and both Zapdos and Vaporeon are acceptable sweepers with their great mixed walling capabilities and strong STAB attacks coming off a decent base special attack.

Conclusion:

Black and White Baton Pass Teams were primarily known for Shell Smash and other gimmicky tactics that never truly found success in the competitive team. This team shows a new style of Baton Pass, focused on a two part defensive core and specific Pokemon to deal with each individual threat presented in the OU meta. This team was made possible very largely in part due to Espeon acquiring the trait Magic Bounce, allowing it to deal with many threats that were usually unbeatable. The competitive play of this team has had a large impact on the meta, increasing Ninjask usage to nearly OU and making rain teams almost always bring Perish Song on Politoed. This team has placed itself a top the ladders in competitive play and has proven to have no significant counters and the success rate of the user is based solely on skill, and a little bit of luck with critical hits ;). I encourage everyone to give it a run for your money and see how well your Baton Pass skills are. It may prove to not be as ‘easy’ or ‘gimmicky’ as it was once labeled. The era of Gorebyss and Smeargle are no more, it is now the era of Espeon.

Exported Text

Exported Text:

Ninjask (F) @ Mental Herb

Trait: Speed Boost

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Protect

- Substitute

- Toxic

- Baton Pass


Espeon (F) @ Red Card

Trait: Magic Bounce

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Hidden Power [Fighting]

- Stored Power

- Morning Sun

- Baton Pass


Vaporeon (Zapdos) @ Leftovers

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Charge

- Substitute

- Thunderbolt

- Baton Pass


Zapdos (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 244 HP / 224 Def / 40 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Acid Armor

- Substitute

- Scald

- Baton Pass


Scizor (Mr. Mime) (M) @ Leftovers

Trait: Soundproof

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Calm Mind

- Substitute

- Encore

- Baton Pass


Mr. Mime (Scizor) (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Light Metal

EVs: 220 HP / 248 Def / 40 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Iron Defense

- Substitute

- Roost

- Baton Pass

NOTABLE CHANGES FOR X and Y

New Pokemon:

• Mr. Mime is now Fairy Psychic: He can now fully counter dragon tail and can switch in freely on Outrage and can encore dragon moves to setup. He is also able to tank on of the most powerful special attacks, Draco Meteor.
• Scizor is now Mega Scizor: He lost leftovers, but now has massively improved bulk. If the extra defense and special defense aren't enough, he also gained speed. This means I no longer need to invest EVs in speed and so he has gained even more bulk. He is now neutral to Dark attacks, meaning Crunch will do more damage, but Lucario already has Close Combat and Tyranitar can still be beaten even if choice banded.
• Ninjask has been replaced by Scolipede with Speedboost. This means you can now run Iron Defense on the lead, giving a better win rate versus priority setup users like Scizor, Weavile, Lucario and Dragonite. Scolipede is also bulkier, resistant to Ice priority and doesn't get destroyed by Stealth Rocks.
• Zapdos can be replaced by Sylveon. Sylveon offers massive Special Defense, but requires some speed EVs. With great defensive typing Sylveon can wall almost every special attacker, except for megagengar with stab sludge wave. The Special attacks that are super effective (only poison and steel) are uncommon enough to make Sylveon very useful. Access to Calm Mind also boosts SpA and Moonblast provides a strong STAB attack (although it can be replaced with Stored Power / Psyshock / Shadow Ball to better defeat Gengar). Weakness to priority Bullet Punch and low defensive stats are questionable.
• Scizor / Mega Scizor can be replaced with Mega Mawile. It sports Intimidate, decent defenses and access to a powerful Foul Play and Taunt, as well as Pain Split. While it is less bulky than Scizor due to investment in speed, it can switch in easily with Intimidate. The biggest downfall is its weakness to Ground, making it unable to tank Earthquake easily.

Buffs:

• Weather effects are less common, meaning residual damage and hyper offensive tactics are less common. (No more STAB Thunders to hurt the team)
• Special attacks in general are much less powerful.
• Bulky Offensive meta shift makes Baton Pass easier to pull off imo.
• Critical strikes now deal less damage than before (200% down to 150%)
• Fairy Typing allows for Dragon Tail to be useless

Nerfs:

• Steel now takes neutral damage from Dark
• Topsy-Turvy is introduced (BLOCKED BY SUBSTITUTE AND REFLECTED WITH MAGIC BOUNCE)
• Mega evolutions lose leftovers.
• Infiltrator now bypasses Substitute, meaning Substitutes can't protect from Status or crits.
• Sound moves bypass Substitutes, meaning you can still die from crits.

EXPORTABLE XY TEAM IN TESTING

Scolipede (F) @ Mental Herb

Trait: Speed Boost

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spd

Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

- Iron Defense

- Substitute

- Protect

- Baton Pass



Mr. Mime (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Soundproof

EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Calm Mind

- Substitute

- Encore

- Baton Pass



Scizor (M) @ Scizorite

Trait: Light Metal

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Iron Defense

- Substitute

- Roost

- Baton Pass



Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Water Absorb

EVs: 224 HP / 248 Def / 36 Spd

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Acid Armor

- Substitute

- Scald

- Baton Pass



Zapdos @ Leftovers

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef

Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

- Charge

- Substitute

- Thunderbolt

- Baton Pass



Espeon (F) @ Red Card

Trait: Magic Bounce

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

- Stored Power

- Hidden Power [Fighting]

- Morning Sun

- Baton Pass

Current Difficulties

In order of trouble induced:
1. Curse Trevenant
2. Greninja lead if running Nasty Plot
3. Talonflame lead if running Sword Dance

Outside of these, I find the rest of the XY meta rather easily to deal with.

 

[skies]

Here are my two cents:

Pokemon Changes:

->

Ok, I know you are trying to make an odd approach with Defensive Baton Pass, but really it is gimmicky, with Offense almost always being better. Lucario fits perfectly as your sweeper that you must have, as it has a nice combination of Speed and Mixed Stats. Another option is Infernape, but I prefer Lucario because of it's Steel typing preventing it from being worn down by Toxic Spikes. It also appreciates the bulk provided, as it isn't very bulky without boosts.

->

Gliscor is much better for this role, you don't need two Defense boosters and Scizor is very weird as a Baton Passer in my opinion. Gliscor provides Stealth Rock for your team, which is great to aid in the stalling as this team will cause many switches. Plus it gets much better recovery and will aid your team greatly.

Item Changes:

Mental Herb ---> Leftovers

Mental Herb is nice for one time, but Leftovers is much more useful over time for recovery.

Red Card ---> Leftovers

Leftovers again will aid, as Red Card is a one time thing, and Leftovers is better by a longshot.

I'm kind of sad a little bit that you have to use Leftovers on more than half your team, but it is necessary, although it seems a little bit to used.

Moveset Changes:

Toxic -> Swords Dance

I honestly do feel you need one or two offensive Pokemon. Swords Dance will help easily boost up and bring in a powerful Attacker such as Lucario. I honestly don't see the point of Toxic, it isn't going to stall for very long as it is set-up bait and doesn't have the bulk to use it.

Hidden Power [Fighting] -> Calm Mind

Calm Mind might seem a little bit odd with Mr. Mime, but I will get to that later. Yeah, it hits some stuff for nice damage, but Calm Mind is infinitely better.

Stored Power -> Psyshock

Psyshock pushes on past Blissey, which is walled by Espeon anyways thanks to Magic Bounce, but it is better than Stored Power before it acquires boosts and is usually less situational, therefore better.

Third Move -> Scald

Little nitpick, just I think this is the best move in that slot as will hit decently after some boosts and has that nice Burn chance.

Calm Mind -> Nasty Plot / Thunder Wave

Nasty Plot is preferred as it will boost a lot faster, which I prefer. Thunder Wave is an option I can't believe was not used or at least slashed, it is amazing to cripple those Scarfers that can ruin you if they are powerful enough.

Iffy Changes:

--->

Kyurem-Black makes a nice addition as a fearsome mixed Sweeper that can reliably plow down opposing teams with proper boosts. I see that Mr. Mime serves a purpose, that is why I list it as iffy, but honestly I would prefer Kyurem-B to add to a Baton Pass receiver.

Review / Conclusion:

To be perfectly honest, I have never liked Baton Pass Teams as I've always found them way too gimmicky, but I like this one. It is nice and cover's a lot of threats. I'd use an attacker somewhere, as it is mandatory in my opinion. I would recommend Lucario, as recommended earlier, and any other mixed sweepers such as Infernape or Kyurem / Kyurem-Black, that love boosts to bulk and speed to aid them sweep. These Pokemon really enjoy to have the ability to shred teams to pieces after some boosts and defensive Baton Pass teams, that have offensive boosts by the way, without an offensive Pokemon makes absolutely no sense to me. If possible I would recommend you to add Lucario and Kyurem-Black wherever you can.

Import:

Kyurem-Black @ Expert Belt
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Rash Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 184 Def / 252 HP / 72 Spd
Bold Nature
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

 

[Nysyr]

Support TTar does too much work on this team, due to using Ninjask. If you ever lose your boots you are screwed due to 4x rock weakness. Mew is a much better lead overall since it can cripple opposing leads.

If you insist on using Ninjask you seriously need X-scissor so you can kill off Loom after a boost, and the same to TTar. Also get rid of protect, its increadibly not worth giving them predictable setups. I know it may seem cute getting +6 speed, but you really don't need it.

What happens when you let Breloom get free boosts? It SDs while you sub, then proceeds to wreck your team, since nothing can take on loom once it gets the boost.

 

[Starline]

Hiya Hiphiphooray!

Your original RMT was one of the very first threads I saw when I first joined Smogon a year ago, and every time anyone has asked me for help with their baton pass team, I've directed them to that thread. It's great to see this update, and I'm definitely not looking forward to having to face it on the ladder instead of just beating qSeasons a bunch of times.

As for changes I'd make, there's very few. Whenever I've used your original team, if I ever tried changing anything, I'd find it worked worse and just revert the change so that it looked more like this. I'm glad you finally found a Zapdos set that covers everything that Venomoth/Emolga/Umbreon were in the spot to try and handle. I would argue that you shouldn't have Roost and Bullet Punch slashed - Scizor's main niche in Baton Pass teams is as a steel-type with reliable recovery. If you need Bullet Punch, it's better to drop something else for it (Substitute perhaps? all of its moves are near-essential, and thus Bullet Punch has an extremely high opportunity cost).

I completely disagree with almost everything Chesnaut said. "Toxic is useless on Ninjask" and "Psyshock > Stored Power" are completely valid viewpoints... from the perspective of someone who has never actually used a Baton Pass team in BW.

Nysyr brings up good points though - SpD Tyranitar is threatening, as Espeon can't come in on it and it gets rocks up easily vs Ninjask. I wouldn't drop Protect for X-Scissor, though, since Ninjask really shouldn't be the pokemon you're using to handle Breloom anyway and will leave your whole game plan ruined if you leave yourself open for a possible Spore. Sure, you're faster, but lead Breloom are often sashed, so even with tons of attack investment, it's still too risky to try and hit them immediately.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

Hiya Hiphiphooray!

Your original RMT was one of the very first threads I saw when I first joined Smogon a year ago, and every time anyone has asked me for help with their baton pass team, I've directed them to that thread. It's great to see this update, and I'm definitely not looking forward to having to face it on the ladder instead of just beating qSeasons a bunch of times.

Thanks man, I'm glad you love the team as much as I do. Hope you have had as much success with it as I have! You along with the people you directed to my old RMT are the reason for me writing this second one. It may take a little bit to get used to using Zapdos, but I have found him very strong! The team is better than ever before! ;)

As for changes I'd make, there's very few. Whenever I've used your original team, if I ever tried changing anything, I'd find it worked worse and just revert the change so that it looked more like this. I'm glad you finally found a Zapdos set that covers everything that Venomoth/Emolga/Umbreon were in the spot to try and handle. I would argue that you shouldn't have Roost and Bullet Punch slashed - Scizor's main niche in Baton Pass teams is as a steel-type with reliable recovery. If you need Bullet Punch, it's better to drop something else for it (Substitute perhaps? all of its moves are near-essential, and thus Bullet Punch has an extremely high opportunity cost).

I don't run Bullet Punch on Scizor really. I use Roost to beat choice banded physical pokemon and substitute is great for stopping crits. Bullet Punch is just an easy fix to cloyster if you have trouble predicting moves with ninjask.

I completely disagree with almost everything Chesnaut said. "Toxic is useless on Ninjask" and "Psyshock > Stored Power" are completely valid viewpoints... from the perspective of someone who has never actually used a Baton Pass team in BW.

I honestly don't think this guy even read my guide. Baton Pass has changed. Defensive Baton Pass teams are the only reliable and successful teams in B/W. If he calls it gimmicky then he hasn't used it and hasn't seen my ladder rankings and tournament wins with this team exclusively...

To Chesnaut,
Espeon is the primary sweeper, as stated in the description... Lucario is useless in my team. With Lucario how would you beat a simple Choiced STAB Thunderbolt? You can't. That's Zapdos job.
Gliscor only has access to harden and can be beat by any Sword Dance user and also choice band users. I've tried it, but it doesn't work. Mawile is better than Gliscor.
Mental Herb is absolutely necessary. Running leftovers is not needed, since you only need 3 boosts and thats easily acquired.
Espeon using leftovers? Did you even read my descriptions? serious man red card is the only way to beat many set up users like Dragonite and Calm Mind Jirachi/Laitas
Stored Power is ridiculous. It can 1hko Blissey way before anything else.
Mr. Mime is used for defense, not offense. I don't need nasty plot at all... and thunderwave? come on man.

I appreciate the help, but this team is successful and you didn't even read the guide. You just assume its gimmicky and the reason I am posting here in the first place is to show people that this team is very solid and the complete opposite of gimmicky. And your suggestions all seem to make the team more gimmicky, which make since since you said is what you are used to. I suggest you try the team, follow my guide, and come here if you are having trouble winning. I have covered all the threats and difficult pokemon, the rest is easy! I think you will be surprised.

Nysyr brings up good points though - SpD Tyranitar is threatening, as Espeon can't come in on it and it gets rocks up easily vs Ninjask. I wouldn't drop Protect for X-Scissor, though, since Ninjask really shouldn't be the pokemon you're using to handle Breloom anyway and will leave your whole game plan ruined if you leave yourself open for a possible Spore. Sure, you're faster, but lead Breloom are often sashed, so even with tons of attack investment, it's still too risky to try and hit them immediately.

X-scissor isn't worth it. Breloom gets raped by Espeon. Espeon can tank all its hits, come in on spore and 1hko it at 0 boosts with stored power since its 4times effective. Normally they SD on the Sub, then I switch to Espeon as they break it. Then they have to hit me with a resisted mach punch to do any dmg before dying.

Tyranitar can be pesky, but I don't think having stealth rocks down is a problem. Against any Tyranitar lead, start with substitute, as he stealth rocks, and then try protecting twice. Switch to Scizor to tank the crunch and then substitute to see if he fireblasts. If he is running Fireblast, go to Vaporeon, tank it, and then Acid Armor before he uses Crunch. Its normally an easy deal. If running roar it is more troublesome, but the goal is to try to hurt it as much as possible with Vaporeon's scald or toxic it early. Alternatively, be a boss and encore the roar/fire blast with Mr. Mime. I prefer the last strategy, but if you mispredict and hit a Crunch your Mr. Mime is a goner. The safest way is Sub on the SR, then Protect, (scout the roar / crunch / FB) and then Toxic it. After that, just switch to Vaporeon and kill it or boost up and force him to stay in to roar and die from poison.

I personally don't have trouble with TTar. Even the sandstorm isn't that big of a problem to me. Stealth Rock and SandStorm together are bothersome, and Sandstorm teams are harder than Rain teams for sure. But they are less common and normally are more physically oriented, meaning scizor and vaporeon can wall almost everything.

Running Mew is problematic since you need to acquire two speedboosts in order to outspeed the meta. Ninjask does this sooooo easily that its almost impossible to replace. If the enemy leads with Choiced Terrikon, your only chance is to switch to scizor, who can tank the hits and heal up, then use Iron Defense. now lets say the opponent brings in any special attacker with a fire move, scizor cannot pass the boosts and you must switch. At that point the enemy can just bring Terrikon right back, and repeat until your scizor is worn down. The point is, without speed the team fails since you can't pass boosts easily. Ninjask is reliable, whereas mew is situational.

Lastly, Protect is used so that I can get these boosts reliably. Without Protect any choiced trick user will beat you on the start.

 

[skies]

Actually, Gliscor gets Agility, Swords Dance, and can Toxic Stall so.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I know the available moves for Gliscor, I even listed them in my guide. Please at least try to read before commenting... Scizor functions as a defensive wall. Nothing about Gliscor makes it a better option in that niche. Try my team, then try the suggestions u made. U will see that they are completely unpractical. You are playing an outdated style of baton pass. Sorry if it seems rude, but it seems like u didn't even attempt to understand or try the team as intended.

I posted this on smogon by popular demand. I've won several tournaments with this team and spectators have approached me with questions. Instead of answering them one by one, over and over, I can now direct them to this guide.

If you have any questions regarding my choices I will be happy to answer them, but it seems like you are completely changing the team to something that you understand better (which is an outdated style of Baton Pass). Having a true sweeper is a terrible idea, as it can be killed by so many things, entry hazards, focus sash, priority. Not to mention Sturdy Skarmory can just tank the hit and whirlwind all your boosts away. The entire concept of a pure sweeper to pass to is, as you said yourself, gimmicky. My team is not gimmicky mainly because it goes against suggestions like yours >.<

The entire concept in a nutshell, since you refuse to read my guide, is "acquire defensive boosts, and use stored power to kill everything while being unphazable and extremely bulky."

 

[Hiphiphooray]

As for changes I'd make, there's very few.

I am interested in the changes you made. Are there any troublesome Pokemon that brought about these changes? Feel free to ask any questions and I'll gladly answer them. At this point I feel like this OU team is maxed out and really can't get too much better all around, just minor tweak and variants for specific troubles you face in particular.

So I have moved on to bigger and better things: I am currently working on recreating this team in a UU settings. Gorebyss replaces Vaporeon, Mawile replaces Scizor, and Smeargle replaces Espeon. If you are interested in testing it out for me let me know, and I can send you an exported text. I haven't had the time to really address any fundamental flaws, but it seems very doable since the majority of my team isn't OU anyway.

 

[Arcticblast]

X-scissor isn't worth it. Breloom gets raped by Espeon. Espeon can tank all its hits, come in on spore and 1hko it at 0 boosts with stored power since its 4times effective. Normally they SD on the Sub, then I switch to Espeon as they break it. Then they have to hit me with a resisted mach punch to do any dmg before dying.

I suppose Breloom can't really hurt Ninjask, but if it sets up as Ninjask sets up you're in for a world of hurt if Breloom predicts the switch to Espeon correctly - Bullet Seed WILL break whatever Sub Espeon might have and do a hell of a lot of damage. It would be much safer to go to Scizor and Bullet Punch it until it's lights out. Also, Breloom takes only 2x damage from unboosted Stored Power.

Tyranitar can be pesky, but I don't think having stealth rocks down is a problem. Against any Tyranitar lead, start with substitute, as he stealth rocks, and then try protecting twice.

Definitely use Protect --> Sub --> Protect unless you are absolutely certain that you can outspeed a lead ScarfTar. Losing your Speed passer early is never a good thing.

EDIT: do what Zeb said. Maybe go a bit higher - say 52 - to outrun those Scarf 115s?

Anyway, Baton Pass is most certainly a gimmick. However, you have the wrong idea of what a gimmick is. Calling something a gimmick doesn't mean it's automatically bad - just look at OTR Reuniclus. Gimmicks can certainly be good.

 

[jake]

Definitely use Protect --> Sub --> Protect unless you are absolutely certain that you can outspeed a lead ScarfTar. Losing your Speed passer early is never a good thing.

i don't play OU so i can't rate this really for you but just wanted to note that you only need 40 EVs of speed investment to outrun scarf tyranitar with ninjask all of the time (meaning you can just sub up if that's what you want to do), as well as always outspeeding anything up to scarf base 115s after a boost. afaik max/max on ninjask doesn't avoid any 2HKOes or anything so i think you can afford to shift some evs there.

 

[Typhlito]

hey since you already have vaporeon with acid armor maybe you could give scizor swords dance to make stored power even stronger or agility just incase they manage to get rocks out which would ruin ninjask if you had to restart the baton pass.

 

[Amaiur]

hey since you already have vaporeon with acid armor maybe you could give scizor swords dance to make stored power even stronger or agility just incase they manage to get rocks out which would ruin ninjask if you had to restart the baton pass.

I don't think so, vaporeon and scizor are complementary so it's good to have two def boosters so u can boost vs any phy sweeper. I've been playing this team today and people forfeits so easy lol. Good job :)

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I suppose Breloom can't really hurt Ninjask, but if it sets up as Ninjask sets up you're in for a world of hurt if Breloom predicts the switch to Espeon correctly - Bullet Seed WILL break whatever Sub Espeon might have and do a hell of a lot of damage. It would be much safer to go to Scizor and Bullet Punch it until it's lights out. Also, Breloom takes only 2x damage from unboosted Stored Power.

Definitely use Protect --> Sub --> Protect unless you are absolutely certain that you can outspeed a lead ScarfTar. Losing your Speed passer early is never a good thing.

EDIT: do what Zeb said. Maybe go a bit higher - say 52 - to outrun those Scarf 115s?

Anyway, Baton Pass is most certainly a gimmick. However, you have the wrong idea of what a gimmick is. Calling something a gimmick doesn't mean it's automatically bad - just look at OTR Reuniclus. Gimmicks can certainly be good.

Scarf TTar can normally be predicted and is much less common than a support leading with Stealth Rock. The EVs can be shifted easily and shouldn't do much. I ran that way before, but then choice banded scizor becomes tough. Either works really. I prefer just predicting the stealthrock or scarf TTar. U can always let them get SR down if u are afraid or bad at predicting.

As far as breloom, I will look into it. So far I have never lost to a breloom, but maybe they aren't as common in the hands of a good player. Most of the time I just substitute the spore and 1hko with Espeon as they setup.

As far as the team being gimmicky, I think its as gimmicky as any weather team. Its definitely stronger than most weather teams and volt-switch teams, but just has a different strategy. And its very effective :P

hey since you already have vaporeon with acid armor maybe you could give scizor swords dance to make stored power even stronger or agility just incase they manage to get rocks out which would ruin ninjask if you had to restart the baton pass.

I don't think I would be able to beat choiced Terrikon or any choiced Stab Outrage without Iron Defense on Scizor. Also, Stealth Rock isn't that troublesome. It may hinder Zapdos, but Zapdos isn't used as much as the rest of my team. He has a very specific niche. Ninjask can switch back in on Stealth Rock and stay alive easily. I normally lead with Protect Sub Protect BP. That leaves me at 75%. I can switch back in and still Protect Sub Protect BP a second time. But this doesn't work in Sandstorm. Althought I should mention the chain very rarely has to reset. Maybe once in 10, maybe even 15 games, do I reset my chain or have a hard switch forced.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I don't think so, vaporeon and scizor are complementary so it's good to have two def boosters so u can boost vs any phy sweeper. I've been playing this team today and people forfeits so easy lol. Good job :)

I'm glad you actually tried it =P Its a very strong team, once you get a few boosts you basically win. The hardest part is always the opening and dealing with the few counter pokemon I listed.

I actually had a great game the other day where I was facing off against an Encore + Perish Song Politoed. It was a very tricky start, and my Scizor and Mr. Mime died. I switched to Mr. Mime, expecting a perish song and got hit by a scald and burned. I then tried to calm mind, and got encored. At this point, knowing he had both Scald , Encore and Perish Song, I had to dry pass constantly and try predict well. Ultimately, I dry passed, saw the switch to Politoed and outsped and killed him with Thunderbolt. It was a very long game, but after I killed his Politoed I had free rain between Zapdos and Vaporeon, and ended up sweeping with Espeon behind a 101 sub from Vaporeon.

 

[Typhlito]

I see. Well if you do manage to get 1 or 2 acids armors they shouldnt be a problem anymore but if they attack before then it might be trouble. The only other pokemon I think may be useful in the team is a baton pass smergle. It wouldnt be used as a lead like their usually used tho. you can pass slme boosts to it, then it can spore and use and combo of boosting moves (notebly belly drum) you like. If you really want to be dareing, I giving it a bunch of boosts plus an offensive set would be interesting but thats prob too gimicky to work. Your team is really solid the way it is tho lol.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I see. Well if you do manage to get 1 or 2 acids armors they shouldnt be a problem anymore but if they attack before then it might be trouble. The only other pokemon I think may be useful in the team is a baton pass smergle. It wouldnt be used as a lead like their usually used tho. you can pass slme boosts to it, then it can spore and use and combo of boosting moves (notebly belly drum) you like. If you really want to be dareing, I giving it a bunch of boosts plus an offensive set would be interesting but thats prob too gimicky to work. Your team is really solid the way it is tho lol.

Smeargle is outclassed by Espeon for its use with Ingrain. And its too frail to do anything else. Cotton Guard was an option, but hard to pull off. Shell Smash is kinda wasted with the drops and pure offense. Smeargle will be key to my upcoming UU team ;)

Yeah I think the team is solid. I can't think of a single hard counter that I have <50% win rate against. I think the biggest counter is the dragonite set I listed, but thats rare and still beatable.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

Here is a replay of the last few Breloom's I faced. Only have exported text sorry.

Ninjask to Iron Defense Scizor

Start of turn 1
Ninjask used Substitute!
Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Breloom used Swords Dance!
The foe's Breloom's Attack sharply rose!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 2
Ninjask used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Ninjask back!
JG is ME sent out Scizor!

The foe's Breloom used Bullet Seed!
It's not very effective...
Scizor's substitute took the damage!
Scizor's substitute took the damage!
Hit 2 time(s)!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Start of turn 3
Scizor used Iron Defense!
Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

The foe's Breloom used Swords Dance!
The foe's Breloom's Attack sharply rose!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Iron Defense!
Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 5
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor lost 103 HP! (30% of its health)
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Substitute!
Scizor made a substitute!

Scizor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Scizor back!
JG is ME sent out Espeon!

Start of turn 7
Espeon used Stored Power!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Breloom lost 60% of its health!
The foe's Breloom fainted!

Red Card on Espeon to counter

Start of turn 1
Ninjask used Substitute!
Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Breloom used Swords Dance!
The foe's Breloom's Attack sharply rose!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 2
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
It's not very effective...
Ninjask's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Ninjask used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Ninjask back!
JG is ME sent out Scizor!

Start of turn 3
Scizor used Substitute!
Scizor made a substitute!

The foe's Breloom used Spore!
Scizor's substitute blocked Spore!

Scizor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Iron Defense!
Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Scizor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 5
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor lost 108 HP! (32% of its health)
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Substitute!
Scizor made a substitute!

Scizor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 6
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Scizor back!
JG is ME sent out Espeon!

Start of turn 7
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
It's not very effective...
Espeon lost 75 HP! (22% of its health)
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!
Espeon held up its Red Card against the foe's Breloom!
The foe's Espeon was dragged out!

Espeon used Stored Power!
It's not very effective...
The foe's Espeon lost 17% of its health!

Espeon kills Breloom

Start of turn 1
Ninjask used Substitute!
Ninjask made a substitute!

The foe's Breloom used Swords Dance!
The foe's Breloom's Attack sharply rose!

Ninjask's Speed Boost increases its speed!
Ninjask's Speed rose!

Start of turn 2
Ninjask used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Ninjask back!
JG is ME sent out Scizor!

The foe's Breloom used Swords Dance!
The foe's Breloom's Attack sharply rose!

Start of turn 3
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor's substitute faded!
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Iron Defense!
Scizor's Defense sharply rose!

Start of turn 4
The foe's Breloom used Mach Punch!
Scizor lost 165 HP! (49% of its health)
The foe's Breloom is hurt by its Life Orb!

Scizor used Baton Pass!
JG is ME called Scizor back!
JG is ME sent out Espeon!

Start of turn 5
Espeon used Stored Power!
It's super effective!
The foe's Breloom lost 80% of its health!
The foe's Breloom fainted!

Let me know what other scenario you think could bring about trouble and I can try to analyze what I would do in that situation. So far I don't have much trouble with Breloom though.

 

[Legitimate Username]

I used the old version of this team with Venomoth for a long time in the past, and I'm glad to see it's updated. Tornadus was always terrifying to face, but Zapdos helps patch up that weakness rather well. I'll admit that Red Card seems like a bit of a situational item choice for Espeon, but I'm sure it won't take a lot of testing before it proves worthwhile.

It's a shame that the fifth generation is ending so soon, since XY will be adding the move Topsy-Turvy and I seriously hope that this playstyle doesn't die. Nevertheless, I'll love this team forever.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I used the old version of this team with Venomoth for a long time in the past, and I'm glad to see it's updated. Tornadus was always terrifying to face, but Zapdos helps patch up that weakness rather well. I'll admit that Red Card seems like a bit of a situational item choice for Espeon, but I'm sure it won't take a lot of testing before it proves worthwhile.

It's a shame that the fifth generation is ending so soon, since XY will be adding the move Topsy-Turvy and I seriously hope that this playstyle doesn't die. Nevertheless, I'll love this team forever.

Glad you like the team. Red Card is situational, but I think having it opens up a lot of easy wins.

This is my first time hearing about Topsy-Turvy. Do you think that Magic Bounce would counter it? If not, I suppose Taunt would be needed to stop it. Shouldn't be too hard to incorporate. Hopefully all my favorite Baton Pass Pokemon get some love in XY too. I bet the users of Topsy-Turvy are like those of Haze, and less common.

 

[Amaiur]

I think red card is needed, sometime u get a sword dancer/dragon dancer/quiver dancer that can be hard to real with, so just take espeon and win those turns he spent :)

Edit: I'm having problems with whirlwind/roars... Any tip/idea? Thanks :)

 

[Hiphiphooray]

Skarmory: If they lead, Substitute during SR, Protect, Baton Pass to Espeon to reflect WhirlWind. Alternatively you can reflect SR on turn one by switching to Espeon, then switch to Scizor to tank Brave Bird, then Substitute on the switch, and go back to Ninjask to get your speed. Remember you can dry pass into Zapdos or Vaporeon to kill Skarmory if the reflected SR or Brave Bird breaks his Sturdy.

Hippo: If they lead, same thing. You can also switch to Mr. Mime and SoundProof the roar, then encore it to force them out. Hippo is actually a bit tougher imo, since any mistake means a good amount of damage and sandstorm hurts over time. But being able to encore helps alot. If its a sand stall team, sometimes I prefer to start with Toxic onto Hippo and just let him roar me. Because I know I won't need the speed versus these slow stall teams.

Basically in both situations you need to prioritize defense in case they are smart and continually switch in and out. Normally after one Iron Defense or Acid Armor you are good and can tank their hits well enough. By prioritize I mean if you have the choice between creating a Sub to protect from crits or simply boosting, just boost. Often times this occurs when I switch in Scizor on the enemy physical attacker. I know they will switch in a special attacker so I substitute so I can pass safely to my special wall of choice. However, in the case of whirlwind/roar users, I will forgo the substitute safety and just boost Iron Defense/Acid Armor. Then I switch into my special wall without a substitute and try to not get Crit.

Heatran is a joke of roar user, so just boost with Mr. Mime all day. Very easy.
Blastoise same thing. Most roar users are special attackers so they are easy to beat. Hardest are the two mentioned above.

 

[THChikorita]

I lovedisc, I can't think of anything to change. 10/10 on originality.

 

[Hiphiphooray]

I lovedisc, I can't think of anything to change. 10/10 on originality.

Thanks m8. Give it a whirl and let me know how it treats you. ;) Happy to answer any questions.

 

[RoyalBlue]

Hey there! I remember rating a BP team a while back that looks super similar to this but I'm not sure if its the same one...

Anyways, I don't really have much to say other than props for making this team. Looks super solid and all those people that say defensive BP teams are "wierd", that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You need little to no offensive Pokemon on BP, cuz you'll either a) annoy the opponent into forfeiting, b) pp stall them or c) muscle through them with passive damage and constant boosted attacks.

And about Topsy-Turvy, it might not work through Subs. So if you're always behind one, you should be fine. Good luck!

 

[Hiphiphooray]

Hey there! I remember rating a BP team a while back that looks super similar to this but I'm not sure if its the same one...

Anyways, I don't really have much to say other than props for making this team. Looks super solid and all those people that say defensive BP teams are "wierd", that is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You need little to no offensive Pokemon on BP, cuz you'll either a) annoy the opponent into forfeiting, b) pp stall them or c) muscle through them with passive damage and constant boosted attacks.

Yup. The whole concept of a Defensive Baton Pass team is completely different than the Baton Pass teams that we saw in DP and earlier stages of B/W. The team is more of a stall team that ultimately withers the enemy down with scald, thunderbolt, and toxic. Just like most stall teams, there is a late game sweeper, which in my case is Espeon. Very similar now that I start to think about it.

And about Topsy-Turvy, it might not work through Subs. So if you're always behind one, you should be fine. Good luck!

Great point. Completely forgot about that. Shouldn't be much a problem if that's the case!