All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

[Sevi 7]

So since no harm is done when Pokemon move between UUBL and OU, is it fair that some Pokemon move between them to more accurately represent the metagame today, this helps newcomers understand what threats are important to a metagame, besides if OU stands for Overused, and some of the Pokemon in that tier are not Overused, then should they be allowed in that respective tier placement?

If you want to know how viable something is in the meta then you should use the viability rankings (aka VRs). Even for old gens, every usage-based tier has one and are updated (usually) annually, if not more.
You can't use tier placement as a means of viability, because one's tier placement and where they are in meta are not well correlated at all. Some BL mons are absolutely useless in in the higher tier, but are there because they're too good for the under tier. In some cases, like with ADV, mons are technically viable in the tier but are not relevant to the meta at all and are ceremonially placed into BL. However, this is not how it works a majority of the time. Furthermore, some mons are viable in upper tiers, but aren't part of the meta enough to make it into the higher tier, even if the tiers aren't completely set in stone. You can see this with RBY Aritcuno, who is a viable mon in OU, but is not meta relevant enough to get out of UU.
Even in Gen 8 tier placement isn't always a good indicator of viability. Ditto and Gastrodon are solid enough mons in OU, but are placed in RU due to usage, and Gengar and Aegislash are in UUBL, but are good in OU.

 

[Earthworm]

So since no harm is done when Pokemon move between UUBL and OU, is it fair that some Pokemon move between them to more accurately represent the metagame today, this helps newcomers understand what threats are important to a metagame, besides if OU stands for Overused, and some of the Pokemon in that tier are not Overused, then should they be allowed in that respective tier placement?

There is a project aiming to do this with OUBT / BL tiers. See this thread.

 

[JanieCox]

Just got into RB OU and had a weird encounter I switched in on a machoke using counter and the move hit even though he hadn't been attacked that turn. He was paralyzed the turn before, idk if that has anything to do with it.
Turn 6 on the replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1159440325-26mxc3nuudu0y8zzw3jlamecjcq819opw

Edit: said RS because I'm dumb

 

[Nalorium]

I understand that there is currently a bug in RBY, more specifically with Chansey (I understand), it has already happened in another tour. But they are trying to solve it.

 

[Hipmonlee]

That is correct behaviour for Counter in RBY. Bulbapedia has a good explanation for how this works.

In the case of your battle Counter looks back to the last move you used, which was Chansey's Body Slam. Body Slam is a counterable move and it did damage, so Counter succeeds, doing twice the damage the Body Slam did.

 

[Sevi 7]

Just got into RB OU and had a weird encounter I switched in on a machoke using counter and the move hit even though he hadn't been attacked that turn. He was paralyzed the turn before, idk if that has anything to do with it.
Turn 6 on the replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen1ou-1159440325-26mxc3nuudu0y8zzw3jlamecjcq819opw

Edit: said RS because I'm dumb

An easy way to understand counter is that counter takes the last move into consideration. It doesn't matter if it was the same turn or 100 turns ago. So in your case, your opponent switched and didn't attack. The last attack was Chansey's body slam, so that's the attack it took into consideration.

Keep in mind, if your opponent had gone for softboil or a non-Normal/Fighting then you'd fail. It's the last move, not the last physical or attacking move.

 

[kakaks]

what are the exclusive moves that cosplay pikachu gets?

 

[spookysocialist]

what are the exclusive moves that cosplay pikachu gets?

 

[kakaks]

why there are so many mons that learn lovely kiss in gsc but only jynx in adv?

 

[DC]

why there are so many mons that learn lovely kiss in gsc but only jynx in adv?

Jynx is the only Pokemon able to learn Lovely Kiss via leveling up. The rest of the mons that got access to Lovely Kiss in Gen II were from an event.
The information is available is here. https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Lovely_Kiss_(move)

 

[Bughouse]

To add to that - while normally throughout the history of Pokemon games, you've been able to trade or transfer Pokemon forward, there was no way to trade or transfer Pokemon forward from GSC to ADV and so many learnsets were just left behind in GSC

You were able to easily to go between 1 and 2, and have been able to continually trade or at least transfer from 3 up til 8 (I believe) .
But you couldn't from 2 to 3 :(

Through virtual console and PokeBank you can also go directly 1->6/7/8 and 2->7/8, but a lot of these wonky moves in GSC were event moves. The virtual console route doesn't help with any of those, since having access to a GSC game that you can trade from doesn't mean you can also go back in time and receive the events that no longer exist.

Virtual Console does however help with other moves that were lost from learnsets after GSC, so long as they're not event moves.

Some GSC tutor moves or TMs may have stopped being available to certain mons in later generations, such as Zap Cannon, which was TM07 in GSC. Tons of Pokemon learned it, including Alakazam, Slowbro, Gengar, Snorlax, etc, etc. Once it stopped being available by TM, its learnset shrunk dramatically, since few Pokemon learned it by level up or any other means. But because of the virtual console, you can get a Zap Cannon Alakazam in GSC and transfer it into your gen 7 or gen 8 game and so it "relearned" the move.

The same idea is true of most moves learned by TM in GSC, if that move was no longer a TM in later gens. Another example is TM03 Curse, such as on Mega Scizor, a set used reasonably often in SM OU. This is based on transferring Curse Scizor from GSC Virtual Console into SM, as Scizor has never learned Curse in any other fashion.

I found this post where another user compiled the moves regained by virtual console:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...clusive-to-the-virtual-console-games.3577468/

 

[Magcargo]

Why aren't GSC Time Capusle moves (like Ice Punch Electabuzz) allowed in the RBY metagame?

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

Why aren't GSC Time Capusle moves (like Ice Punch Electabuzz) allowed in the RBY metagame?

That metagame exists and is called RBY Tradebacks. As for why this isn't the official metagame played in tours: I don't know and am not sure if anyone really knows. It must have been decided a long time ago and there never was enough support to making it the main RBY meta although some people stated that they believe allowing tradebacks might improve the metagame.

 

[lvakq]

Hello, I have a quick question about Heracross in Gen 2, specifically the popular Rest, Sleep Talk, Megahorn, Curse/Seismic toss set. I am playing on cartridge against a couple friends so Seismic toss is not possible, and unfortunately I've used my Earthquake TM. So it is between Curse and another attacking move. I am leaning towards the latter and was thinking about the following options: Counter, Reversal, Return.

My very novice thoughts: Return is a fairly safe, high power move, but isn't SE against anything. I also have it on Snorlax already. With Megahorn there, it might not compliment the set all that well. Counter and Reversal are STAB and super-effective against a lot of popular gen 2 Pokemon, and I don't have any fighting offence on my team. However they're also riskier. My main worry is during sleep-talk -- would I be better running Counter, which offers some decent chance at fight-back though might pressure the opponent to switch in/opt for special and/or set up moves, or Reversal, though perhaps that encourages setting-up even more, or Return which might hit hard, just not as hard as the previous two could?

A bit of a ramble but would love some input!

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

It's difficult to answer that since we don't know what other pokemon you have or which rules you follow (e.g. whether Double Team is allowed).
Reversal generally has bad synergy with Sleep Talk and Rest since you either can't have the high attack base power or can't heal yourself. It can maybe work but is more situational.
Counter can work but its syngergy with Sleep Talk is not as great either as randomly picking it on a switch turn or against a slower pokemon reveals the move for no gain after which it is more easy to play around it. It could still have some defensive utility though. Counter doesn't gain a STAB boost and doesn't do super effective damage to normal types.
Return would offer better coverage against Flying types but depending on which ones they are and whether they hold Leftovers, you might not make much progress with that. It seems like the most consistent option.

 

[lvakq]

It's difficult to answer that since we don't know what other pokemon you have or which rules you follow (e.g. whether Double Team is allowed).
Reversal generally has bad synergy with Sleep Talk and Rest since you either can't have the high attack base power or can't heal yourself. It can maybe work but is more situational.
Counter can work but its syngergy with Sleep Talk is not as great either as randomly picking it on a switch turn or against a slower pokemon reveals the move for no gain after which it is more easy to play around it. It could still have some defensive utility though. Counter doesn't gain a STAB boost and doesn't do super effective damage to normal types.
Return would offer better coverage against Flying types but depending on which ones they are and whether they hold Leftovers, you might not make much progress with that. It seems like the most consistent option.

Thanks for the reply! I am not totally settled on a team yet which is why I didn't post one (but a couple I'm sure of e.g. Snorlax (standard curse set), Vaporeon (also a sleep talk set)). We're following the Smogon clauses + added a couple others (e.g. no Perish trapping) + a no-legendaries clause too, which in this context simply means no Lugia/Ho-Oh/three beasts.

I did not realise Counter doesn't get STAB, thanks for pointing that out. Your comments make total sense too. Is there any merit in a set that has Rest but not Sleep Talk, or is Heracross too vulnerable to pull that off?

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

Difficult to say, as I have no little experience playing with your rules so I can only make educated guesses. With access to Leftovers all pokemon would become more bulky, meaning a set without Sleep Talk would get comparatvely better. That said, I think it likely would still not be bulky enough. Adding a pokemon with Heal Bell such as Miltank would help with that though.
Sometimes Snorlax and Heracross can both struggle get past an opposing Skarmory so a move like Flamethrower on Snorlax could be a good idea.
I'd go with Curse on Heracross, unless you want to keep that move for a different pokemon.
Maybe try getting a more detailed idea what pokemon you want to use before committing to a specific set.

 

[lvakq]

...

Ok thanks for the help. I've used the Curse TM on Snorlax but I think I can pass it down to Heracross via an awkward breeding chain or something, or Smeargle sketching. Annoyingly I put Eathquake on Snorlax and have been regretting it ever since, precisely for the reasons you say (and it wouldn't be bad against opposing Heracross either I guess). Is a move like that something you would expect any decent Gen 2 team to have or can it be forgone? Sorry side tracking a little.

Will think about this some more then. With regards to Leftovers, because there are only 2 in the game I need to be very picky about allocating them -- one I will give to Snorlax (fairly obvious), beyond that it's unclear to me whether it works best on a something bulky like my Vaporeon (Surf/Acid Armor/Rest/Sleep Talk) or my Umbreon (Toxic/Pursuit/Charm/Moonlight), or on an attacker that is more fragile but could do with beefing up e.g. a Heracross.

Traditionally what would the preference be on that end, if Leftovers are sparse?

 

[FriendOfMrGolem120]

Earthquake is not mandatory on teams. It's still an extremely good move on Snorlax so maybe consider replacing Heracross if you are concerned about Skarmory. Not sure if there would be a good rule of thumb for which mon to give the second Leftovers.

 

[Questions Frog]

Ok thanks for the help. I've used the Curse TM on Snorlax but I think I can pass it down to Heracross via an awkward breeding chain or something, or Smeargle sketching. Annoyingly I put Eathquake on Snorlax and have been regretting it ever since, precisely for the reasons you say (and it wouldn't be bad against opposing Heracross either I guess). Is a move like that something you would expect any decent Gen 2 team to have or can it be forgone? Sorry side tracking a little.

Will think about this some more then. With regards to Leftovers, because there are only 2 in the game I need to be very picky about allocating them -- one I will give to Snorlax (fairly obvious), beyond that it's unclear to me whether it works best on a something bulky like my Vaporeon (Surf/Acid Armor/Rest/Sleep Talk) or my Umbreon (Toxic/Pursuit/Charm/Moonlight), or on an attacker that is more fragile but could do with beefing up e.g. a Heracross.

Traditionally what would the preference be on that end, if Leftovers are sparse?

Probably much too late, but duplicating items by use of the cloning glitch is trivial in Gen 2. There are only a few well-timed off-switches between you and six Leftovers (and I always make sure to duplicate TMs before I use them).

 

[musiquepkmn]

I'm a new player to ADV, and I'm looking to get in to the metagame. I joined during Gen 8, but I believe I understand the mechanics of Gen 3 after watching numerous BKC videos and reading the mechanics forums.

My first question is: Is there anything glaringly outdated or wrong about this team? It's a sample team, but I'm unaware how recently it was posted.

Team

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
- Rest

Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 184 HP / 204 Atk / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Bug]

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Toxic
- Taunt

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 240 HP / 100 Def / 136 SpD / 32 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Leech Seed
- Recover

Dugtrio (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 8 HP / 248 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Aerial Ace

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 188 Def / 56 SpD / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Toxic
- Protect
- Refresh

My second question is: I was playing vs. a toxic blissey with this team. What do i switch it to a toxic blissey? This is in a matchup where i needed my Skarmory for an opposing Curselax. I'm sorry I don't have the replay. At that point, my swampert had already died to an unexpected hp grass

 

[spookysocialist]

I noticed that the analysis for ADV Blaziken recommends sky uppercut as the fighting stab on every set over brick break. Brick break is only mentioned in OO where it says BB and SU do basically the same damage, so why is SU and it's imperfect accuracy the standard? I feel like the main targets of fighting stab (blissey, lax, and tar) all get OHKOd by BB, is there any notable calcs for SU?

 

[Oglemi]

I noticed that the analysis for ADV Blaziken recommends sky uppercut as the fighting stab on every set over brick break. Brick break is only mentioned in OO where it says BB and SU do basically the same damage, so why is SU and it's imperfect accuracy the standard? I feel like the main targets of fighting stab (blissey, lax, and tar) all get OHKOd by BB, is there any notable calcs for SU?

It's probably recommended because it secures the 2hko on standard swampert at +2 where brick break just misses after lefties, but it was written well before protect was standard on everything so I think it misses it now with a turn of protect in between, you could definitely get away with running brick break, I haven't run more calcs than that though

 

[sonumtubae]

So, Gen 1 NU is a RoA of the month ladder but I can't seem to find a list of Gen 1 NU Pokemon anywhere. Is there one or just what's not banned from the UU selection?

 

[Sevi 7]

All RBY NU resources are in this thread.