Gen 1 Arcanine (NU) [QC 2/2] [GP 0/2]

Sabelette

from the river to the sea
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[OVERVIEW]

Arcanine is a fringe pick in NU as a defensive Fire-type that trades hits efficiently thanks to a very high Attack stat backed by Body Slam access. Being the best physical Fire-type is a big perk for the fiery dog, leaving a dent in anything that doesn't resist its coverage. Its Speed is just barely enough to work, outrunning Pokemon like Venomoth and Mr. Mime, which also makes it a fair anti-lead and revenge killer. Arcanine's bulk is nothing to scoff at, even taking a +2 Earthquake from Charizard, actualizing its utility as a defensive Fire-type. It also has a fantastic Moltres matchup, stonewalling the terrifying Legendary Bird while threatening anything attempting to switch in with a meaty Body Slam. Arcanine can usually deal heavy damage before going down and, when paired with Water-types like Blastoise, can form a decent defensive core to combat the offense-laden RBY NU.

However, metagame shifts have not been kind to the Legendary Pokemon: tier staples like Charizard, Kabutops, and Golem tear into it, as Arcanine only has Fire- and Normal-type moves for coverage, and these Pokemon are frequent offensive presences. While it can theoretically use Toxic to punish them, this is hardly a substitute for direct damage, and lacking Fire Spin to pile on chip damage or escape bad matchups worsens the issue. Without Venusaur as a reliable target for it to switch into, as well as Moltres becoming less favored, Arcanine's regular lines of play have diminished. As a defensive Fire-type, it also has issues distinguishing itself from Rest Moltres outside of its admittedly crucial Body Slam access; while Moltres lacks it, it has more overall bulk, Fire Spin access, and generally inconsequential weaknesses, notably not being hit by Earthquake. Furthermore, while Arcanine's Charizard matchup is functional, it's just that: even minor chip damage, which it will sustain, can drastically worsen it. Due to a mix of these factors, Arcanine has fallen off significantly. The volatile nature of the tier is just a bit too much for Arcanine teams in general, leading to them being a rare sight in the modern metagame.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Hyper Beam
move 4: Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

STAB Fire Blast lets Arcanine deal significant damage to Venomoth while serving as its best attack against neutral targets like Nidoking. Body Slam lets Arcanine fish for paralysis as a midground option while denting Fire-resistant foes such as Blastoise and Charizard. Backed by Hyper Beam, Arcanine can 2HKO Mr. Mime if it's taken minimal damage and quickly finish off Fire-resistant Pokemon. Rest should rarely be used but bolsters Arcanine's defensive role, ensuring it can reliably stonewall Moltres, which can't outspeed and chip it down with Toxic + Fire Spin without Agility, and also gives Arcanine a chance to potentially recover in front of a paralyzed foe. However, waking it up can be difficult outside of switching into Fire Spin or weak attackers like Venomoth.

Arcanine can be used as an anti-lead, possessing just enough Speed and power to function. Critical hit Fire Blast OHKOes Venomoth, and Body Slam paralysis against any of Charizard, Mr. Mime, and even rare sights like Primeape can be game-defining. Arcanine's bulk allows it to duel lead Charizard quite well, as usage of Earthquake potentially means taking a hit it can't afford so early into a game. It should be remembered that Arcanine is not 2HKOed by Earthquake. However, Arcanine doesn't always need to be a lead, as it can be a strong mid-game presence thanks to the reliability that its bulk, power, and Body Slam access provide. Its Speed is just right for a revenge killer role as well, crucially outrunning base 90 Speed Pokemon like Mr. Mime that are otherwise quite difficult to bring down when they have the advantage. Teams that use Arcanine primarily use it alongside Blastoise, providing a useful defensive backbone against Charizard. Offensively, Arcanine can potentially allow Mr. Mime to flourish by fending off opposing Mr. Mime and Clefable. Using Arcanine takes up a valuable team slot for a second Fire-type, however; there is very little reason to drop Charizard for Arcanine, and thus teams must find ways to check Water- and Rock-types in spite of this increased weakness.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Arcanine's movepool is workable, but replacing any move often harms more than it helps due to its highly specific matchup spread. Agility can be used to make Arcanine into a mixed late-game sweeper, with its great Attack stat and Body Slam access making it more reliable than Agility + Fire Spin Moltres. However, with its limited coverage, setting the stage for Agility Arcanine can be difficult, and not having Fire Spin means it needs foes to be put in KO range for it to be consistent.

Toxic can be used on lead Arcanine sets to poison potential Fire Spin leads, particularly Charizard and Ninetales, as well as give it something to catch Kabutops and Golem switching in. However, Charizard and Ninetales perform this role better due to their higher Speed and access to Fire Spin. Reflect can be used to further this role and mitigate Arcanine's Earthquake weakness, but the abundance of Swords Dance and Slash users that ignore this makes the utility limited. Leer can be used on paralysis-intensive teams to drop Defense while reapplying the foe's paralysis Speed drop, often forcing the opponent to switch it out, but this is especially niche.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Rock-types**: Arcanine has nothing to contest Rock-types outside of hoping for a Fire Blast burn, leaving it countered by Golem and Kabutops, which 2HKO it with Earthquake and Surf, respectively. Kabutops is also excellent at making use of a resting Arcanine, as it often uses Swords Dance to threaten a sweep.

**Water-types**: Arcanine takes massive damage from Water-type attacks, which all 2HKO Arcanine, making Pokemon like Blastoise, Seadra, and Kingler threatening. Kingler strongly dislikes taking paralysis from Body Slam or burn from Fire Blast but can still 2HKO Arcanine.

**Charizard**: Charizard can 3HKO Arcanine with Earthquake, which becomes a 2HKO if it's taken even minor damage. Swords Dance allows Charizard to exploit Arcanine if it uses Rest; in fact, Charizard coming in on a predicted Rest can end the game on the spot. A healthy Arcanine can mortally threaten Charizard with Body Slam paralysis, though, so this matchup can be volatile.

**Setup Sweepers**: Once Arcanine uses Rest, it's left vulnerable to exploitation, and most setup sweepers have super effective coverage against it. Kingler, Kabutops, Sandslash, and Seadra are all capable of 2HKOing Arcanine after setting up.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353], [Sabelette, 583793]
- Quality checked by: [[Shellnuts, 491544], [phoopes, 96315]]
- Grammar checked by: [[autumn, 384270]]
 
Last edited:

Shellnuts

Rustiest Player Around
is a Community Contributor
There is many reasons why Arc has fallen off from its heyday during the early era of NU play.

It wants to use its bulk to hit the field against a neutral or resisted attack, then start throwing out Fire Blasts or Body Slams to spread Paralysis, Burn, and do a bunch of damage generally, or use Rest to heal up and burn sleep turns on those same targets. As the metagame got more offence-centric, the defensive cores of the bulky-offence/balance teams it was used on became rapidly outpaced by the offensive threats they were tasked with dealing with; you couldn't afford to play a longer game and spread status and damage, you had to get KOs as soon as possible and couldn't afford to take a hit in return.

Arcanine also lost its main entrypoints to burn Sleep turns or even hit the field; before the rise of Zard and Venusaur was banned, Arcanine could take hits from over half the cast without much issue, reliably switching into Fire Blast, Razor Leaf, Thunderbolt (from Mime or Clef), Psychic, Toxic (from Moltres), and Hyper Beam (from Moltres or Clefable), while avoiding Thunder Waves, Surfs, and, Earthquakes. However, as the metagame became more offence centric, its major entrypoints dropped in value or stopped existing completely—Razor Leaf stopped being used once Venusaur was banned, taking Fire Blasts mattered a lot less when almost all of them were backed up by an Earthquake from Zard instead of just a Toxic or Hyper Beam from Moltres, and Moltres losing prominence made switching into its Toxics and Hyper Beams a lot less valuable—while the attacks it wants to avoid taking—mainly Surfs and Earthquakes—became way more prominent in usage and subsequently cut down the amount of opportunities it had to come onto the field and do its job.

Also, in addition, since the metagame is currently in such a volatile state where you can't afford to lose any momentum without being bowled over by the main offensive behemoths of the tier, and since most of the attacks now are super-effective hits—being bulky becomes mostly irrelevant since your dying in the same number of hits anyways since the attacks your taking are mostly super-effective, which can't be mitigated by using Rest without basically throwing the game.

All of Arcanines strengths in the older iterations of NU—from its bulk and decent defensive typing, its longevity against Venusaur and opposing Fires while using Rest, and its good damage output and ability to spread status over the course of a longer game—became significantly less valuable if not completely useless, in the modern hyper-offence centric NU metagame we see today.

Now its only good at revenge killing a chipped Poliwhirl or Mr Mime (which isn't as relevant with the prominence of other Waters for Poliwhirl and Clef/Exeggcute/your own Mime/Zard after hitting it with another attack), handling Venomoth and Exeggcute after something has been slept (which it is outclassed at by Moltres), or taking on Moltres (which isn't as relevant with the aforementioned prominence of Waters and Golem, and also Moltres isn't as common nowadays since it's just setup fodder for Charizard, as already mentioned)

Like, once Golduck was banned, Arcanine was great since it could so reliably take hits for its teammates while pressuring the opponent in return, for example it could take Fire Blasts from Moltres or Psychics/Thunderbolts from Mime and then pressure the opposing Blastoise with Body Slams and paralysis while keeping your own Blastoise healthy, so it would be forced to rest before yours was forced to which allowed you to pressure its teammates and spread status or get KOs while you still had your own to help keep you own team healthier, and against stuff like Kabutops you could either play defensively with your own Blastoise and eventually paralyze it and then either chip it down or force it to rest which lets your own Venusaur, Blastoise, Clefable, Mr Mime, or Nidoking, come in and start hitting stuff from there, or could bait it to switch in and go to Venusaur, Blastoise, Mr Mime, or Nidoking and then spread paralysis or just do a ton of damage to something else on the switch.

Nowadays those lines of play just don't exist in any capacity since the metagame is so volatile and offence-centric that you can't afford to play slow and defensive with Rest and such without Charizard using SD and just eating your face off.

(posted initially on discord)
 

Shellnuts

Rustiest Player Around
is a Community Contributor
Might be worth covering its utility as a revenge killer against chipped Mimes and Poliwhirls in the main body paragraph, and that Arcanine is a hard wall to Moltres with Rest (it's actually not as good against other Fires as it is Moltres since they can outspeed it and ToxSpin it down), other than that it seems good.
 

phoopes

I did it again
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I don't think this analysis is necessary/making progress, so moving this to Locked/Outdated Analyses. Feel free to reserve this one I guess, if you feel so inclined. Thread has been updated to reflect this.
 

phoopes

I did it again
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Honestly not too much to say here. If anything this analysis is convincing me that Arcanine is better than it really is in the current meta, but I can't think of any specific wordings that I would change to make it sound worse lol. Did want to comment on this though:

Toxic can be used on lead Arcanine sets to poison potential Fire Spin leads, particularly Charizard or Ninetales, as well as give it something to catch Kabutops and Golem switching in. However, Moltres often does this role better on account of having Fire Spin to pile on chip damage rather than switch out thereafter.
The way this reads it sounds like you're advocating lead Moltres as a better option than lead Arcanine. Is this intentional? Just making sure because lead Moltres isn't very common. If you're talking about Fire-type leads in general I'd mention Charizard and Ninetales before Moltres myself.

Very good, even if it's a super niche pick haha. QC 2/2
 

autumn

only i will remain
is a Site Content Manageris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
C&C Leader
1/1 GP Team done
[OVERVIEW]

Arcanine is a fringe pick in NU as a defensive Fire-type that trades hits efficiently thanks to a very high Attack stat backed by Body Slam access. Being the best physical Fire-type on the physical side is a big perk for the fiery dog, leaving a dent in anything that doesn't resist its coverage. Its Speed is just barely enough to work, outrunning Pokemon like Venomoth and Mr. Mime, which also makes it a fair anti-lead and revenge killer. Thanks to its inflated stats, (not really sure what this means) Arcanine's bulk is nothing to scoff at, even taking a +2 Earthquake from Charizard, actualizing its utility as a defensive Fire-type. It also has a fantastic Moltres matchup, stonewalling the terrifying Legendary Bird while threatening anything attempting to switch in with a meaty Body Slam. Arcanine can usually deal heavy damage before going down and, when paired with Water-types like Blastoise, it can form a decent defensive core to combat the offense-laden RBY NU.

However, metagame shifts have not been kind to the Legendary Pokemon: tier staples like Charizard, Kabutops, and Golem tear into it, as Arcanine only has Fire- and Normal-type moves for coverage, and these Pokemon are frequent offensive presences. While it can theoretically use Toxic to punish them, this is hardly a substitute for direct damage, and lacking Fire Spin to pile on chip damage or escape bad matchups worsens the issue. Without Venusaur as a reliable target for it to switch into, as well as Moltres becoming less favored, Arcanine's regular lines of play have diminished. As a defensive Fire-type, it also has issues distinguishing itself from Rest Moltres outside of its admittedly crucial Body Slam access; while Moltres lacks it, it has more overall bulk, Fire Spin access, and generally inconsequential weaknesses, notably not being hit by Earthquake. Furthermore, while Arcanine's Charizard matchup is functional, it's just that: even minor chip damage, which it will sustain, can drastically worsen it. Due to a mix of these factors, Arcanine has fallen off significantly. The volatile nature of the tier is just a bit too much for Arcanine teams in general, leading to them being a rare sight in the modern metagame.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Body Slam
move 3: Hyper Beam
move 4: Rest

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

STAB Fire Blast lets Arcanine deal significant damage to Venomoth while serving as its best attack against neutral targets like Nidoking. Body Slam lets Arcanine fish for paralysis as a midground option while denting Fire Blast resists Fire-resistant foes such as Blastoise and Charizard. Backed by Hyper Beam, Arcanine can 2HKO Mr. Mime if it's taken minimal damage and finish off other Pokemon very quickly. (the first part of the sentence is referring to fire blast into hyper beam i assume but then is the second part explaining fire blast still or now explaining hyper beam?) Rest should rarely be used but bolsters Arcanine's defensive role, ensuring it can reliably stonewall Moltres, which can't outspeed and chip it down with Toxic + Fire Spin without Agility, and also gives Arcanine a chance to potentially recover in front of a paralyzed opponent foe. However, waking it up can be difficult outside of switching into Fire Spin or weak attackers like Venomoth.

Arcanine can be used as an anti-lead, possessing just enough Speed and power to function. Critical hit Fire Blast OHKOes Venomoth, and Body Slam paralysis against any of Charizard, Mr. Mime, and even rare sights like Primeape can be game-defining. Arcanine's bulk allows it to duel lead Charizard quite well, as usage of Earthquake potentially means taking a hit it can't afford so early into a game. It should be remembered that Arcanine is not 2HKOed by Earthquake. However, Arcanine doesn't always need to be a lead, as it can be a strong mid-game presence thanks to the reliability that its bulk, power, and Body Slam access provide. Its Speed is just right for a revenge killer role as well, crucially outrunning base 85-90 (can you npt just say 90 bc 90 is faster than 85) Speed Pokemon like Mr. Mime and Nidoking that are otherwise quite difficult to bring down when they have the advantage. Teams that use Arcanine primarily use it alongside Blastoise, providing a useful defensive backbone against Charizard. Offensively, Arcanine can potentially allow Mr. Mime to flourish by fending off opposing Mr. Mime or and Clefable. Using Arcanine takes up a valuable team slot for what is likely a second Fire-type, however; there is very little reason to drop Charizard for Arcanine, and thus teams must find ways to check Water- and Rock-types in spite of this increased weakness.
i cant tell if you mean "Using Arcanine takes up a valuable team slot for what is likely a second Fire-type; however, there is very little reason to drop Charizard for Arcanine" or not. if not, split the sentences imo because its kinda hard to read this way

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Arcanine's movepool is workable, but replacing any move often harms more than it helps due to its highly specific matchup spread. Agility can be used to make Arcanine into a mixed late-game sweeper, with its great Attack stat and Body Slam access making it more reliable than Agility + Fire Spin Moltres. However, with its limited coverage, setting the stage for Agility Arcanine can be difficult, and not having Fire Spin means it needs foes to be put in KO range for it to be consistent.

Toxic can be used on lead Arcanine sets to poison potential Fire Spin leads, particularly Charizard or and Ninetales, as well as give it something to catch Kabutops and Golem switching in. However, Charizard and Ninetales perform this role better due to their higher Speed and access to Fire Spin. Reflect can be used to further this role and mitigate Arcanine's Earthquake weakness, but the abundance of Swords Dance and Slash users that ignore this makes the utility limited. Leer can be used on paralysis-intensive teams to drop Defense while reapplying the foe's paralysis Speed drop, often forcing the opponent to switch it out, but this is especially niche.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Rock-types**: Arcanine has nothing to contest Rock-types outside of hoping for a Fire Blast burn, leaving it countered by Golem and Kabutops, which 2HKO it with Earthquake and Surf, respectively. Kabutops is also excellent at making use of a resting Arcanine, as it often uses Swords Dance to threaten a sweep.

**Water-types**: Arcanine takes massive damage from Water-type attacks, which all 2HKO Arcanine, making Pokemon like Blastoise, Seadra, and Kingler threatening. Kingler strongly dislikes taking paralysis from Body Slam or burn from Fire Blast but can 2HKO Arcanine as all Water-types can.

**Charizard**: Charizard can 3HKO Arcanine with Earthquake, which becomes a 2HKO if it's taken even minor damage. Swords Dance allows Charizard to exploit Arcanine if it uses Rest; in fact, Charizard coming in on a predicted Rest can end the game on the spot. A healthy Arcanine can mortally threaten Charizard with Body Slam paralysis, though, so this matchup can be volatile.

**Setup Sweepers**: Once Arcanine uses Rest, it's left vulnerable to exploitation, and most set-up setup (how did you spell this two diff ways in the same section) sweepers have super effective coverage against it. Kingler, Kabutops, Sandslash, and Seadra are all capable of 2HKOing it Arcanine after setting up.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[May, 236353], [Sabelette, 583793]
- Quality checked by: [[Shellnuts, 491544], [phoopes, 96315]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
 

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