Serious American Politics

I think electric cars would be better if they had their own lanes so they could reach high velocities. You could even stack multiples in one line to accomodate various passengers. Maybe make their lines span the entire country. Has anyone ever thought of this
100% correct the US public transportation network is total ass and needs an overhaul.

But China / Europe despite their robust public transportation system still use cars and they're even more invested than the US in electric technologies. There's also applications for battery advancements in renewable power such as windmills or solar. Old E-car batteries can be repurposed for solar panels on houses. Then there's e-bikes, e-scooters etc. that give people cheap options in cities.

I know your post was a joke and all but the possibilities electric cars bring are enormous regardless of how good a nation's public transportation sector is. It's something every nation should be embracing because a shift to a green future isn't really possible otherwise.
 
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100% correct the US public transportation network is total ass and needs an overhaul.

But China / Europe despite their robust public transportation system still use cars and they're even more invested than the US in electric technologies. There's also applications for battery advancements in renewable power such as windmills or solar. Old E-car batteries can be repurposed for solar panels on houses. Then there's e-bikes, e-scooters etc. that give people cheap options in cities.

I know your post was a joke and all but the possibilities electric cars bring are enormous regardless of how good a nation's public transportation sector is. It's something every nation should be embracing because a shift to a green future isn't really possible otherwise.
On paper electric cars are cool and a great replacement, but the issue here is why they're being pitched and the order these things are being prioritized. Elon has been crazy about electric cars because it's been a way to impede construction of better public transportation, not because of any interest in clean energy. His cars are also known to be poorly made and the manufacture process isn't even that clean as a result.

The reason why we should focus on public transport and country-wide train lines in any country is that those are much more efficient and safe in combating the car centric societies we live in. Yknow how when you learn something, the first 80% are much easier to learn than the rest of the 20%, which require more specific studying? Trains are there to resolve the 80%, and after we got that sorted we can focus on more specific solutions like electric cars to resolve the 20% left
 
Imagine being such an enlightened centrist that you think an openly conservative billionaire scam artist who busts unions, treats his workers like serfs, and got his head start from blood emeralds is a friend to leftism. Please explain that one to me in some more detail. Maybe the problem is that you're not a leftist? That's not gatekeeping by the way; the gate is wide open, you just need to like... actually support some kind of leftist policy to get there.
 
City zoning is very FUCK… in US of America

give me mixed use walkable residential neighborhood with UPTO 6 story midrise apartment buildings… WITH groundlevel business plots… and bike lane with BIKE parking rack

I cannot believ this is BAN But not Terastiltion Finchinator wow oh wow :angry:

do Not worry my feelow smogoners… for I am taking the goodfight… all the way… to the city zonig board public Meetings… every 3rd tuesday… from 6-8pm… in conference hall D

i am fighting for YOU
 

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Garrett

Chase dreams worth a lifetime's pursuit
is a Pre-Contributor
Yeah, US public transportation in a country where recent railroad strikes fail to secure serious benefits for workers, mainstream media acts as corporate America's proxy in justifying union busting, and the simple fact that too many Americans can't image a world without a car for travel. Delightful.

Since it pisses me off, I'll add a piece on the decreasing size of parking spaces.
Average parking spots in the US are 7.5 to 8 feet wide, down from 9 to 10 feet a few decades ago when we drove supposed "land yachts." Here's the problem: We're driving land yachts again. A 2017 Range Rover is 78 inches wide, just 0.6 inches narrower than the 1965 Lincoln Continental that a well-heeled person might have driven in a previous life.

Parking space dimensions are typically governed by local codes, but that may only apply to spaces on public lots and streets. Mall and garage owners can often cram as many spots into a given paved space as a straight face will allow them and let you worry about the dings and keyings.
(https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/parking-spots-make-no-sense-for-todays-cars/)

Every time I'm stuck between a huge SUV and a dude in a Ford pickup that can't park, I'm risking in all in the awful state of New Jersey. Please save me.
 

Medeia

formerly Descending
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/so...e-shootings-new-mexico-elected-officials/#app

Solomon Pena, a ex-GOP house candidate & MAGA was arrested for being the mastermind behind the shooting of 4 democratic lawmakers in New Mexico, which involved 4 other people in the conspiracy. How much more evidence do we need before at least the MAGA front of the Republican Party are undisputedly seen as what they are: Literal Fascists.

Thankfully no one was hit in any of the shootings and these fanatic losers didn't achieve what they wanted. Every big L for them is a good day for USA.
 
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On paper electric cars are cool and a great replacement, but the issue here is why they're being pitched and the order these things are being prioritized. Elon has been crazy about electric cars because it's been a way to impede construction of better public transportation, not because of any interest in clean energy. His cars are also known to be poorly made and the manufacture process isn't even that clean as a result.

The reason why we should focus on public transport and country-wide train lines in any country is that those are much more efficient and safe in combating the car centric societies we live in. Yknow how when you learn something, the first 80% are much easier to learn than the rest of the 20%, which require more specific studying? Trains are there to resolve the 80%, and after we got that sorted we can focus on more specific solutions like electric cars to resolve the 20% left
In a perfect world, one which we should fight for, the US will have a functional national public train / bus network. There's no downside here, even publicly funded everyone outside the 0.001% wins.

In the real world, by the time you convince the US public to hand over control of the private rail network to the government the planet will turn into a flaming baked potato due to climate change. Even if we take the Kurzgesagt view that human extinction has already been avoided I would like to avoid 1/3rd of the planet becoming unlivable because the left thinks musk bad = electric cars bad. Sorry to say but you aren't going to dismantle and rebuild 95% of the cities in the US to be public transportation friendly regardless of how nice our posts are on a Pokémon forum, at least not before climate issues become catastrophic. Public transportation is certainly part of the answer but since the EU / China has embraced it yet still had ludicrous emissions I don't think it's the only answer.

Electric car tech is here right now and the battery technology it brings not only gets fuel trucks off the road and removes ICE vehicles, it also helps increase the viability of renewable energy via advancements in battery storage. In the long term lithium can be replaced by sodium and Boomers crying about 400 miles range on their F350 will die out with their complaints unanswered. Opinions on specific billionaires shouldn't distract you from the fact that humanity is sterilizing the planet and needs to take steps one way or another to cancel the apocalypse.
 
I would like to avoid 1/3rd of the planet becoming unlivable because the left thinks musk bad = electric cars bad.
Yeah, literally nobody is saying this. People are saying there are better alternatives (which is true), people are saying Musk is a shit person who shouldn't be supported on moral grounds and is a terrible representative for electric car tech (which is true, and not the same thing as saying electric cars bad), and people are saying that simply switching to electric cars may not be enough to divert catastrophic climate collapse alone (which is true). Boiling all this discourse down to "leftists think electric cars are bad" is either incredibly ignorant or intentionally dishonest. Which is it?
 
Yeah, literally nobody is saying this. People are saying there are better alternatives (which is true)
No, there are literally zero alternatives to the internal combustion engine besides electric cars. Nothing else will reasonably cut emissions in the time frame we need.

Increasing investments into public transportation will LOWER the number of cars on the road but even as we see with Europe / Asia we're going to have cars one way or another and as long as we have them we're going to need to find a renewable way to replace all of them, not just some. The US also has extremely low population density, so even with a drastic overhaul of the public transportation system you're going to have tens of millions of cars and trucks on the road because no one is going to send a train to (places where Republicans live) where roads aren't even paved.

Even if public transportation did replace 100% of cars there would still be the battery application in solar / wind power storage, tractor trailers, busses etc. that is a complete win.

We should invest in public transportation but we also have electric technology which will have results now. This technology should be embraced because co2 emissions are, by most estimates, causing the biggest mass extinction this planet has ever seen.

Boiling all this discourse down to "leftists think electric cars are bad"
The guy I replied to suggested focusing on public transportation before electric cars. Public transportation is great but unfeasible in the short term given the legislation, public opinion changes, and literal decades of construction required to make significant changes mean it isn't a short term viable solution to co2 emissions. Public transportation is great and we SHOULD focus on improving it. However this entire thread has basically been:

"Electric cars? Have you consider taking the bus instead??"

The real answer is to embrace electric technologies that drastically cut emissions and support local legislation that improves public transport. IIRC Biden just dumped a bunch of money into public transport as part of the infrastructure bill, so that's good. But if we want to make a real effect on the climate crisis we need to hit if with everything we've got, both electric and public transportation.
 
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Even if we take the Kurzgesagt view that human extinction has already been avoided I would like to avoid 1/3rd of the planet becoming unlivable because the left thinks musk bad = electric cars bad. Sorry to say but you aren't going to dismantle and rebuild 95% of the cities in the US to be public transportation friendly regardless of how nice our posts are on a Pokémon forum, at least not before climate issues become catastrophic. Public transportation is certainly part of the answer but since the EU / China has embraced it yet still had ludicrous emissions I don't think it's the only answer.
This is true. Ever since the crypto-shilling apartheid emerald mining heir turned out to be a racist, I have switched from walking everywhere to taking on substantial debt for the sake of running a F450 truck exclusively on leaded gasoline.

The EU and China have substantial emissions still because their transportation systems aren't meant to replace existing infrastructure or cars. Electric cars make for poor solutions because they aren't adopted in any widespread fashion and lack appropriate infrastructure to support widespread use. The solution lies entirely in a total transformation of consumption habits and energy infrastructure, not just simply building a couple railways like the EU and PRC have done.
 
For those who have a car or consistent 24/7 access to a car, there's almost no point in using public transportation in the US besides the environmental aspects of it (if you're in a city where public transport uses healthier alternatives) and saving car insurance or gas money with how high gas prices currently are. I'm on the spectrum, so I have a hard time being around people as is, and would always blast music on my car drives to calm myself before a work shift. I can't do that with headphones without being rude to people next to me on public transit, and I had a bad bike accident that left me with permanent brain damage, so I understandably wouldn't want to bike daily to work (not to mention I don't like being outside, to begin with, due to sensory overstimulation). In all honesty, the clamoring for mass migration to public transport feels a little ableist in some cases.

I work from home currently, so I don't drive anywhere near as much as I used to - but I used to do multiple multi-state drives/cross-country drives and also had massive commutes to work (anywhere from shorter highway commutes around 30 mins to mountain commutes around two+ hours). I'd also like to bring up that the pandemic has essentially made people very uncomfortable with close, personal contact with strangers (way more than before). The American public is even less likely now to want to support public transit post-COVID because of the health risks involved with close proximity contact (especially without masks). Regarding my own personal experiences - public transport in Colorado is pretty alright (at least in the Denver area), but public transit in California is terrible (especially in Southern California). I'm lucky enough to have my own car now, and let me tell you that if I was given a choice, I'd never use public transit in the US again.

The general point is - US citizens won't budge on public transport unless some incentives they can personally benefit from are introduced. I think that there are other possible options that could be worked on along with electric cars for a more sustainable alternative, but as multiple people in this thread said, with how cities are laid out in the US, people aren't going to be making the switch en-masse any time soon.
 
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Electric cars make for poor solutions because they aren't adopted in any widespread fashion and lack appropriate infrastructure to support widespread use.
You can plug an electric car into an outlet in your house and it will be fully charged overnight, what are you talking about lmao. Do you need to drive 300+ miles per day? Buy a gas car boomer and whine about fuel prices on Facebook if that's the case. If not just don't forget to plug your E-car in and you'll be fine. You can also Google fast charger locations if you're that desperate to take your E-car on a trip. There's one at my Walmart, there's a few on the highway. There's more than you seem to think. In fact I think you're badly misinformed about EV adoption rates, I suggest you look up some charts about the recent EV boom. As long as they can be economical, they will gradually replace ICE vehicles. EVs get on average 50 miles per dollar or roughly 150 MPG. I don't care what the Republicans say, that's a tempting offer once the price drops (due to sodium batteries, used markets being flooded, or competition).

Probably the biggest issue with electric cars is cost and initial emissions from mining lithium (both cost and co2 emissions are much less over an EV's lifetime than ICE cars) but sodium batteries appear to be ready to fix both those problems. It doesn't matter what Tesla does, they showed electric cars to be viable and that there is a market for them. Thanks Musk, now that the genie is out of the bottle we have dozens of companies globally competing for a share of the market and if someone can find a way to make the cars cheaper, longer ranged, or more green they will do it for our sweet sweet dollars.

The solution lies entirely in a total transformation of consumption habits and energy infrastructure, not just simply building a couple railways like the EU and PRC have done.
When you convince several billion people globally to reduce consumption and quality of life by a substantial amount I'll be here to admit I was wrong, but until then I'm going with the technology that works right now, is economically reasonable, and that can feasibly increase the viability of renewable energy in the near future (such as battery storage technology). You're focusing on solutions that won't work and even if you convinced everyone to literally rip up their cities, factories, and way of life, you aren't going to change things fast enough.

I'm just going to say it, what you just proposed isn't going to happen. Solutions need to be viable, not miracle visions that violate human nature. The Earth receives 10,000x the energy we use in JUST sunlight, and that ignores wind, water, geothermal, nuclear etc. You aren't going to convince human civilization to undo the industrial revolution but you can focus on green technologies that allow the planet to survive in a way that doesn't require alien space bats to descend from the skies, because what you're asking is somehow even less realistic than that.
 
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earl

if there's anything a werewolf hates
is a Community Contributor
If this conversation is gonna veer to "is X ableist" this is gonna get real pointless real quick. zero sum game, something is always gonna clash with any given person's specific circumstances. its not ableist to say "hey i think most people should use public transit over cars"
 
You can plug an electric car into an outlet in your house and it will be fully charged overnight, what are you talking about lmao. Do you need to drive 300+ miles per day? Buy a gas car boomer and whine about fuel prices on Facebook if that's the case. If not just don't forget to plug your E-car in and you'll be fine. You can also Google fast charger locations if you're that desperate to take your E-car on a trip. There's one at my Walmart, there's a few on the highway. There's more than you seem to think. In fact I think you're badly misinformed about EV adoption rates, I suggest you look up some charts about the recent EV boom. As long as they can be economical, they will gradually replace ICE vehicles. EVs get on average 50 miles per dollar or roughly 150 MPG. I don't care what the Republicans say, that's a tempting offer once the price drops (due to sodium batteries, used markets being flooded, or competition).

Probably the biggest issue with electric cars is cost and initial emissions from mining lithium (both cost and co2 emissions are much less over an EV's lifetime than ICE cars) but sodium batteries appear to be ready to fix both those problems. It doesn't matter what Tesla does, they showed electric cars to be viable and that there is a market for them. Thanks Musk, now that the genie is out of the bottle we have dozens of companies globally competing for a share of the market and if someone can find a way to make the cars cheaper, longer ranged, or more green they will do it for our sweet sweet dollars.

When you convince several billion people globally to reduce consumption and quality of life by a substantial amount I'll be here to admit I was wrong, but until then I'm going with the technology that works right now, is economically reasonable, and that can feasibly increase the viability of renewable energy in the near future (such as battery storage technology). You're focusing on solutions that won't work and even if you convinced everyone to literally rip up their cities, factories, and way of life, you aren't going to change things fast enough.

I'm just going to say it, what you just proposed isn't going to happen. Solutions need to be viable, not miracle visions that violate human nature. The Earth receives 10,000x the energy we use in JUST sunlight, and that ignores wind, water, geothermal, nuclear etc. You aren't going to convince human civilization to undo the industrial revolution but you can focus on green technologies that allow the planet to survive in a way that doesn't require alien space bats to descend from the skies, because what you're asking is somehow even less realistic than that.

I live in Canada lol, 300 miles isn't a whole lot and you're highballing ranges based on luxury cars, the Bolt gets maybe 230 miles out of a full charge. That's not even enough to navigate half the SLL. You're arguing with someone whose family works in automotive lol. The pollution from EVs also goes beyond mining and includes manufacturing and upkeep, as well as the particulate from tires and the environmental impact of roads. Literally anyone who follows the environmental science knows that electric cars are a bandaid solution to climate change. You'll be hard-pressed to find any scientist in relevant fields that would sign off on what you're saying.

Also lol @ bringing up Musk as if he's responsible for EV markets, when in reality all he does is produce luxury crematoriums off of incredible subsidies. You should be thanking Obama, Ford, and GM. Also love the smug comments about not being able to convince people to change consumption habits while arguing Elon singlehandedly motivated market actors to move into EVs. Pick a position lmao

You do not know what you are talking about, and it's especially obvious when you keep calling advocates for public transportation "boomers with gas cars." I don't drive, I am fortunate to live in a part of Canada with extensive transportation infrastructure and carpool in rural areas.
 
I apologize for the delayed response, busy week and "take liberals seriously" is a hard thing to fit into my schedule sometimes. :woop:
No, there are literally zero alternatives to the internal combustion engine besides electric cars. Nothing else will reasonably cut emissions in the time frame we need.
You've been skirting around this point but public transportation is cheaper and dollar for dollar reduces more emissions than EVs do. Sure, improvements in energy storage could probably help this, but you're optimistic on the time frame in which we can both develop them and make them affordable, and sure supporting rural areas with public transit might be expensive, but so would installing the necessary infrastructure to support EVs in those areas as well, as I notice you... didn't mention at all.

That being said most public transit proposals are ultimately short term solutions to curb emissions, and switching as many vehicles over to electric as possible should definitely be a priority. Not sure if you thought I disagreed there or something, you seem to have this persistent habit of having no clue what the people you're disagreeing with actually want. And again, not the same thing as "electric cars bad". Liberals and honesty, name a less iconic duo. I won't wait.

And of course the single biggest piece to this puzzle is a cleaner energy source. What good are electric cars if we're still burning fossil fuels to power them? Wind and solar are great and should be invested in wherever viable, but the most cost-effective option with the least caveats is nuclear. Judging by how often you bring them up, you're one of those greencap Kurzgesagt viewers so you should be on board with investments in nuclear energy, yes?

The guy I replied to suggested focusing on public transportation before electric cars. Public transportation is great but unfeasible in the short term given the legislation, public opinion changes, and literal decades of construction required to make significant changes mean it isn't a short term viable solution to co2 emissions. Public transportation is great and we SHOULD focus on improving it. However this entire thread has basically been:

"Electric cars? Have you consider taking the bus instead??"

The real answer is to embrace electric technologies that drastically cut emissions and support local legislation that improves public transport. IIRC Biden just dumped a bunch of money into public transport as part of the infrastructure bill, so that's good. But if we want to make a real effect on the climate crisis we need to hit if with everything we've got, both electric and public transportation.

And in some contexts in the short term they're right. Improving public transportation in urban areas combined with other policies such as reduced parking does cut emissions. Will this work everywhere? No. Is it a sufficient solution by itself? No. But in some contexts, it does make sense to focus on public transportation over... um, what is your proposal exactly? Subsidized EVs? Public funding to expand EV infrastructure? Some lunatic Ayn Randian plot that involves giving Elon Musk lots of money and hoping he sciences away the problem? Serious question, please do enlighten. Not to mention, these two proposals (as you seem to acknowledge, despite it undermining your entire point here) don't contradict each other; we can do both. Fuck it, bring on the electric public transport vehicles.

Maybe I didn't make this clear enough; electric cars are good. We should develop them. Elon Musk can be accredited for quite literally nothing on this topic; paying people far smarter than he is to make cool shit and then trying to market it with all the charisma of nails scraping on a chalkboard doesn't suddenly make him a hero of leftism, and certainly doesn't mean we just ignore the union busting or being the benefactor of apartheid emerald mines. The entire framing of this discussion was 100% bait and you know it.

Oh and we should probably take a look at the economic system that's responsible for the climate crisis to begin with. You know, plug the holes up before you bail the boat out and all. Maybe we can come up with something where profit isn't the motivating factor for every policy decision, who knows.
 
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Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
is a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
if one rly cares about electric vehicles or the environment or w.e wouldn't they be more skeptical of Musk because he doesn't seem to care about any of that stuff he just seems to be concerned with getting more dollars?

He has made it pretty clear he wants to use all his untaxed (due to the trickling down of 'overly-online political discourse' perhaps?) wealth to finance his departure from a ruined planet.

His outsized wealth was acquired by repurposing his colonialism emerald mine dollars to hijack government and acquire lucrative contracts for things the government used to provide 'for free' (i.e expeditions to space, defense software, and now 'public' transportation i hear) to taxpayers.

If one pays close attention to Musk they can see he is all about defending the interests of and the power of the extremely wealthy. He frequently highlights fringe far-right conspiracies on twitter for example, where he also interacts w homophobes racists and misogynists routinely, helping to spread these worldviews.

I reckon it's not a good thing for electric cars or the metro or the environment or w.e you want that Musk is leading or has power in the financing of these things, I think he will look out for #1 and he most likely believes that this means screwing the masses ('the masses '<-that means YOU btw).

But yeah I'm sure he is like a saint as most billionaires tend to be.
 
I apologize for the delayed response, busy week and "take liberals seriously" is a hard thing to fit into my schedule sometimes. :woop:
Woah buddy, BIG feelings!

I live in Canada lol, 300 miles isn't a whole lot and you're highballing ranges based on luxury cars, the Bolt gets maybe 230 miles out of a full charge. That's not even enough to navigate half the SLL. You're arguing with someone whose family works in automotive lol.
I live in Maine lol, this is Canada but instead of hockey we just don't have healthcare. We have moose, snow, maple syrup etc. For a daily driver 230 is more than enough, even in the snowy wilderness. How far are you driving to work every day? You realize you get 230 EACH DAY right? Even just plugging it in at home it charges in 10 hours and that's from 1%-100.

The pollution from EVs also goes beyond mining and includes manufacturing and upkeep, as well as the particulate from tires and the environmental impact of roads. Literally anyone who follows the environmental science knows that electric cars are a bandaid solution to climate change. You'll be hard-pressed to find any scientist in relevant fields that would sign off on what you're saying.
Yes, lithium mining is bad. But even counting this the emissions of an EV are a fraction of an ICE vehicle considering total lifetime. Or just totaling a few years, ICE vehicles are terrible pretty much from the get-go. Also yes, ICE vehicles impact the roads and have tires. Having tires isn't unique to EVs.

In the short term Lithium isn't the perfect solution but in the long term we have solid state, sodium, nickel, and tons of other options. If it was JUST Lithium well, the tech would be dead in 50 years.

Also lol @ bringing up Musk as if he's responsible for EV markets, when in reality all he does is produce luxury crematoriums off of incredible subsidies. You should be thanking Obama, Ford, and GM.
Elon's investments into Tesla helped convince the market that EVs are viable. That would have happened eventually one way or another, but Musk's money is the reason my next car can be an EV (from ANY auto manufacturer, not just tesla) instead of me needing to wait ten more years. Musk is a garbage person but I'm not going to warp history and pretend otherwise, it has more or less been Tesla that paved the way for EVs and convinced other car companies to invest billions into producing their own.

Also love the smug comments about not being able to convince people to change consumption habits while arguing Elon singlehandedly motivated market actors to move into EVs. Pick a position lmao
You can convince people to change their lives if you offer a way to make it easier. Electric cars are affordable and get what, 150+ mpg (in $$$ amounts). Give it a few more years and even the boomers will jump all over that. On the other hand you can't convince someone to dismantle the industrial revolution and live in a wood cabin to reduce co2 emissions. That's unreasonable even for climate activists.

You do not know what you are talking about, and it's especially obvious when you keep calling advocates for public transportation "boomers with gas cars." I don't drive, I am fortunate to live in a part of Canada with extensive transportation infrastructure and carpool in rural areas.
I never called advocates of public transportation "boomers with gas cars." lol, it's the boomers who are having existential diarrhea all over the idea that their Ford F150 might not be the best option anymore. Public transportation is 100% good and everyone benefits from it. However getting a NATIONWIDE public transport service in the US will take decades and even so it will not remove all ICE vehicles from the road. You mention Canada but did you know Canada is #8 (just behind the US at #6) in vehicles per capita? Sounds like regardless of public transportation people still end up using cars and if a person NEEDS to use a car (or a bus, commercial vehicle, etc) it's better to be electric and cut back on emissions entirely.

Co2 emissions are a big deal and there is no real "good" solution. The best we can do is embrace what technologies we do have. At the moment the best option is a large focus on public transport with support for EV and green technology.

if one rly cares about electric vehicles or the environment or w.e wouldn't they be more skeptical of Musk because he doesn't seem to care about any of that stuff he just seems to be concerned with getting more dollars?
Musk wants to make money. He made money. Regardless of his feelings beyond that the result was proof that EVs are economical and that there is public demand for them. Now every auto manufacturer is producing them and all of them are investing research into non-lithium options (such as sodium etc).

He could be Hitler reincarnated in a shark's body for all I care, his actions have convinced the public that there are options beyond ICE vehicles.

I reckon it's not a good thing for electric cars or the metro or the environment or w.e you want that Musk is leading or has power in the financing of these things
Lucky for you the wonders of evil capitalism actually give you multiple options. You can pick from Musk or many of the other auto manufacturers worldwide if you want an electric car (or scooter). Musk did his thing and now he could die for all I care, the EV revolution is here and it's finally giving people a way to reduce Co2 emissions in a way that doesn't require them to live in a log cabin.

I'm just quoting here because this post is excellent. But in addition keep in mind EVs aren't a static technology. Cheaper, more efficient batteries are an ongoing thing. In 5 years a new EV might be a 20k sodium EV that gets you 200 miles on $5 of electricity. That's ridiculous and makes Co2 emitting ICE vehicles look like trash even if you don't give a fuck about climate change. That's kind of my point though. You can't scare people into changing their life style. You have to offer viable alternatives.
 
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