Headlines “Politics” [read the OP before posting]

[Myzozoa]

The discourse around the leaked draft of the Supreme Court opinion on Roe v Wade has illuminated a significant 'psy-op' (rly just a bigger than usual media buy on the part of foreign and some domestic actors) that intends to re-write the history Roe v Wade and abortion in America as some type of performative or "liberal" issue. According to this revisionist perspective, the project to enshrine abortion rights via the Supreme Court was some sort of liberal-capitalist vanity project/tactic that was always, despite the widespread support for abortion rights, somehow "anti-democratic" according to this discourse ("the republicans have won the supreme court by subverting democracy, but the democrats did the original sin when they pursued roe v wade in the courts to the exclusion of federal legislation", they will tell you this with a straight face and s mug tone). The function of this framing is to resonate with the gender critical movement and the big dumb celebrity trial going on rn to strengthen currents of anti-feminism and misogyny within the faux overly online "progressive" movement. The anti-feminist tendency functions to fracture progressive actors and keep potential leftists actors passive. Some other nonsense you might see is a claim that pro-abortion policies were originally a republican or rightwing strategy to lower the population of people of color (no historical facts support this). You might also hear that the democrats never passed legislation to protect the right to abortion because they want to keep using the urgency of the issue as a fundraising tactic (not accurate to the actual complexity of how the issue has developed and what policy considerations exist wrt it) (note this is not the same as denying the claim that it is "the lefts'" fault that roe got overturned, which is a different but still stupid and insidious revisionist frame that has been attempted itt). All of these claims are intended to make people feel ambivalent about people being stripped of their rights rapidly, and should be treated as disinformation where encountered.

thx for reading my tedx talk.

 

[Chou Toshio]

OMG those Supreme Court hearings— wow. I do not know how you can be a sane person who grew up with American civil liberties/liberal democratic/constitutional republican values/education and not come away thinking—

We seriously need to lock Trump up.

Liberals need to get more mad; more mad and more scared and they need to bury the entire party in the midterms in a sheer wave of mass liberal panic the way they buried Trump by giving sleepy Joe the most votes in history.

 

[boo836]

OMG those Supreme Court hearings— wow. I do not know how you can be a sane person who grew up with American civil liberties/liberal democratic/constitutional republican values/education and not come away thinking—

We seriously need to lock Trump up.

Liberals need to get more mad; more mad and more scared and they need to bury the entire party in the midterms in a sheer wave of mass liberal panic the way they buried Trump by giving sleepy Joe the most votes in history.

there's not going to be any Watergate-esque mass protests because most American "progressives" absolutely do not care about issues that require effort on their part. Maybe 70% of US "leftists" are college kids drawn into Stalinist cults and their social media networks and "inform" themselves that way, or rely entirely on Republican-bought propaganda like Rising, or Greenwald and the other podcasts Peter Thiel bought. Most of those sorts in this thread already decided to do nothing in the future because doing the bare minimum didn't work out for them. They'll take the fascists so long as they get to keep guzzling cheeseburgers for the rest of their lives.

Anyways, anyone watch Brie Gray on Rising praising pundit for the Republican establishment Cucker Tarlson as "anti-establishment?" They don't even pretend any more and the rubes still lap it up. My favourite part has to be Iversen saying he's her show of choice. Funny how that happened after she started getting her money from the GOP.

 

[Chou Toshio]

there's not going to be any Watergate-esque mass protests because most American "progressives" absolutely do not care about issues that require effort on their part. Maybe 70% of US "leftists" are college kids drawn into Stalinist cults and their social media networks and "inform" themselves that way, or rely entirely on Republican-bought propaganda like Rising, or Greenwald and the other podcasts Peter Thiel bought. Most of those sorts in this thread already decided to do nothing in the future because doing the bare minimum didn't work out for them. They'll take the fascists so long as they get to keep guzzling cheeseburgers for the rest of their lives.

Anyways, anyone watch Brie Gray on Rising praising pundit for the Republican establishment Cucker Tarlson as "anti-establishment?" They don't even pretend any more and the rubes still lap it up. My favourite part has to be Iversen saying he's her show of choice. Funny how that happened after she started getting her money from the GOP.

Sounds like you watch quite a bit of rising. I haven’t because it sucks now for the reasons you mentioned— the hosts.

Yeah not going to lie Brianna Joy Grey’s… whatever that was… calling/not calling Tucker a fascist was extremely hard to watch. Kim Iverson’s been on the crazy train reactionary train with Greenwald and Taibi (maybe worse than either) now but Brianna’s grift transformation has been the most painful— Feel The Burn was/is such amazing work. Sad. Real sad.

I do hope the hearings can be more than a flash in the pan though— it’s powerful compelling stuff.

But then a lot of people thought that Brianna monologue calling/not calling? Tucker fascist was “brilliant and fair minded” so yeah there definitely are a lot of too-far-gones

That said, I think that a LOT of the left has also totally dumped the left media pundits on the Dave Rubin arc and their audiences are now basically just right wingers and tankies.

 

[Medeia]

Can we pls stop using the neoliberal and alt-right buzzword "tankies"? It really only fits for imperial USSR during Stalins reign and in 1950s when they annexed Czech-Slovakia, and is a word without actual meaning these days, which the right wing and neoliberal bros use to demonize the entire left. And no, i'm not even a Marxist-Leninist (let alone stalinist or maoist), i'm sympathizing with some libertarian socialist and anarcho-communist thought, but it's still annoying to see all this use of this dumbass word. It makes all liberals who cry about the US-"left" being full of authoritarian glorifiers and closeted right wingers look hyporitical and not exactly self conscious.

Anyway, supreme court judge Clarence Thomas wife Ginni Thomas has been exposed at attempting to overturn the 2020 presidential election into Donald Trumps favor. She sent 29 E-Mails to republican lawmakers in Arizona in oder for Donald Trump to be declared the winner of the 2020 election. For reminders, her husband Clarence Thomas was the only supreme court judge who wanted to deny the 6th january commitee access to white house records and to sabotage investigations against Donald Trump. Wajahat Ali, columnist and senior fellow at the "Western States Center" said: "Democrats should aggressively put pressure on Clarence and Ginni Thomas."

“You have an extremist conservative duo working the courts and the rightwing activist machine to overturn our free and fair election.”

I would personally go much further and call for the abolishment of the republican party. They're a fascist party that wants to create a evangelical dictatorship, already started their genocidal campaign against all trans people and LGBTQIA+ in republican controlled states and their party leader Donald Trump orchestrated a insurrection attempt to overthrow and destroy any semblance of democracy left in USA. They're extremist enough and their actions severe enough for the abolishment of the party to be more than justified, even though this would be obviously a drastic decision and many US liberals still love this talk about the "need" of a 2 party "balance" between democrats and republicans, which is so ludicrous to me to hear and read as a european.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nce-arizona-republicans-undermining-democracy

 

[Magcargo]

I would personally go much further and call for the abolishment of the republican party. They're a fascist party that wants to create a evangelical dictatorship, already started their genocidal campaign against all trans people and LGBTQIA+ in republican controlled states and their party leader Donald Trump orchestrated a insurrection attempt to overthrow and destroy any semblance of democracy left in USA. They're extremist enough and their actions severe enough for the abolishment of the party to be more than justified, even though this would be obviously a drastic decision and many US liberals still love this talk about the "need" of a 2 party "balance" between democrats and republicans, which is so ludicrous to me to hear and read as a european.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nce-arizona-republicans-undermining-democracy

As an American, I would not support this. There's already a ton of civil unrest over basic quarantine measures being implemented. If the party was abolished, I'd imagine the response would be significantly more drastic and harsh.

 

[boo836]

Sounds like you watch quite a bit of rising. I haven’t because it sucks now for the reasons you mentioned— the hosts.

Yeah not going to lie Brianna Joy Grey’s… whatever that was… calling/not calling Tucker a fascist was extremely hard to watch. Kim Iverson’s been on the crazy train reactionary train with Greenwald and Taibi (maybe worse than either) now but Brianna’s grift transformation has been the most painful— Feel The Burn was/is such amazing work. Sad. Real sad.

I do hope the hearings can be more than a flash in the pan though— it’s powerful compelling stuff.

But then a lot of people thought that Brianna monologue calling/not calling? Tucker fascist was “brilliant and fair minded” so yeah there definitely are a lot of too-far-gones

That said, I think that a LOT of the left has also totally dumped the left media pundits on the Dave Rubin arc and their audiences are now basically just right wingers and tankies.

I don't watch any Rising beyond what I've seen from critics of the show. And Brie's "transformation" is not "sad," it's something that researchers on the far-right have pointed out repeatedly only to be subject to online mobbing from podcaster fanboys. I've seen it repeatedly. What's sad is that it took her openly praising the Father Coughlin wannabe for terminally online twats to realise it.


Also since you mentioned Taibbi and Greenwald, the former used to wrote about raping women and children with his buddy Mark Ames and the latter has repped Nazis pro-bono. They are not so much a testament to how the GOP is recruiting left-wing media, as it is to how much of a bad joke leftist movements in the States really are.

Can we pls stop using the neoliberal and alt-right buzzword "tankies"? It really only fits for imperial USSR during Stalins reign and in 1950s when they annexed Czech-Slovakia, and is a word without actual meaning these days, which the right wing and neoliberal bros use to demonize the entire left. And no, i'm not even a Marxist-Leninist (let alone stalinist or maoist), i'm sympathizing with some libertarian socialist and anarcho-communist thought, but it's still annoying to see all this use of this dumbass word. It makes all liberals who cry about the US-"left" being full of authoritarian glorifiers and closeted right wingers look hyporitical and not exactly self conscious.

"tankies" originates from the defenders of Stalinist purges of socialists in Hungary. It's not a "neoliberal" or alt-right buzzword, it predates both neoliberalism and the alt-right. I definitely sympathise with abolishing the Republican Party, but statements like this are completely ignorant.

also, tankies deserve to be relentlessly mocked

 

[Medeia]

I don't watch any Rising beyond what I've seen from critics of the show. And Brie's "transformation" is not "sad," it's something that researchers on the far-right have pointed out repeatedly only to be subject to online mobbing from podcaster fanboys. I've seen it repeatedly. What's sad is that it took her openly praising the Father Coughlin wannabe for terminally online twats to realise it.


Also since you mentioned Taibbi and Greenwald, the former used to wrote about raping women and children with his buddy Mark Ames and the latter has repped Nazis pro-bono. They are not so much a testament to how the GOP is recruiting left-wing media, as it is to how much of a bad joke leftist movements in the States really are.






"tankies" originates from the defenders of Stalinist purges of socialists in Hungary. It's not a "neoliberal" or alt-right buzzword, it predates both neoliberalism and the alt-right. I definitely sympathise with abolishing the Republican Party, but statements like this are completely ignorant.

also, tankies deserve to be relentlessly mocked

Yeah and? I already mentioned that and know its origins, never even implied that alt-right and neoliberals created that word.
Still doesn't change that it only fits stalinist and maoist cultists these days and is used by the alt-right and neoliberals these days to demonize just about everyone on the left, so i don't fuck with this term and there's enough other ways to mock Stalinists and Maoists.

I'm glad that someone else sympathizes with abolishing the Republican party tho and i agree with you that "leftist" movements in US are a joke lol.

 

[SillierCrayon]

I would personally go much further and call for the abolishment of the republican party. They're a fascist party that wants to create a evangelical dictatorship, already started their genocidal campaign against all trans people and LGBTQIA+ in republican controlled states and their party leader Donald Trump orchestrated a insurrection attempt to overthrow and destroy any semblance of democracy left in USA. They're extremist enough and their actions severe enough for the abolishment of the party to be more than justified, even though this would be obviously a drastic decision and many US liberals still love this talk about the "need" of a 2 party "balance" between democrats and republicans, which is so ludicrous to me to hear and read as a european.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...nce-arizona-republicans-undermining-democracy

How to stop the "Fascist Party" and an "Evangelical Dictatorship":

Create a One-Party System

 

[Medeia]

How to stop the "Fascist Party" and an "Evangelical Dictatorship":

Create a One-Party System

Thats your countrys "democracy" that is the issue in the first place, in which the winner of each state or county takes it all, completely halting growth of new and smaller parties in general and giving them no chance to send representatives in Congress and Senate which created this situation.

Either Republicans can continue their ways and destroy the last semblances of democracy like the fascist party they have become, or they get abolished somehow and only the democrats are left as one big party.

Realistically speaking, there's no way out and a new big civil war just a matter of time at this point, unless people want to do nothing and just let republicans create their evangelical dictatorship. A abolishment of the republican Party beforehand would only speed up this scenario.

 

[RaikouLover]

Realistically speaking, there's no way out and a new big civil war just a matter of time at this point, unless people want to do nothing and just let republicans create their evangelical dictatorship. A abolishment of the republican Party beforehand would only speed up this scenario.

There will be no civil war. However, there is a good chance the United States will become a democracy in name only. Only one party currently cares about democracy. That is untenable. Part of democracy is that at some point you will lose an election. If the American republic depends solely on Democrats, it will fail.

 

[boo836]

How to stop the "Fascist Party" and an "Evangelical Dictatorship":

Create a One-Party System

The Republican Party currently seeks to create a one-party state. Abolishing the Republican Party for its role in attempting a coup of the constitutional order does not result in a one-party society. If anything, it opens the door to a potential multiparty democracy in the US. If the "progressives"/liberals (and liberals in denial) here wanted anything to change, they would have been campaigning for the Democrats year-round. Republican intellectuals like Yarvin literally maintain the People's Republic of China as a desirable model of governance.

There will be no civil war. However, there is a good chance the United States will become a democracy in name only. Only one party currently cares about democracy. That is untenable. Part of democracy is that at some point you will lose an election. If the American republic depends solely on Democrats, it will fail.

A civil war is ongoing. It's just difficult for most people to realise this because modern-day insurgencies are hybridised and utilise kinetic and nonkinetic operations. That said, I don't know how much clearer that could be made than a literal attack on Congress, intentional perpetuation of a viral pandemic, blackmailing foreign governments into interfering in American elections, or aiding the Taliban and neo-Nazis through executive prerogative.

 

[Magcargo]

There will be no civil war. However, there is a good chance the United States will become a democracy in name only. Only one party currently cares about democracy. That is untenable. Part of democracy is that at some point you will lose an election. If the American republic depends solely on Democrats, it will fail.

For what it is worth, I believe other countries like Japan are like this as well, where there are several different parties such as LDP, CDP, SDP, etc. but the only party to actually win any elections consistently is the LDP . In the US, there are still a fair few other parties such as the Green Party, Peace & Freedom Party, etc, which might not be a majority, but still represent alternative options that could gain greater support in the future.

While there is technically more democracy in the US, my personal issue is that nothing the Republican Party does is what I want lol. Thankfully, most of their agenda doesn't affect my state, California, but with how easy it is for them to plant their seeds of influence to the masses by cherry-picking examples and rhetoric like "both parties are bad" (which is an ideology I have seen embraced by some Communist I know as well), I truly worry how long this will last. It does not exactly help that many Republican governors & politicians are perfectly willing to subvert precedents such as Roe v. Wade & making voting more inconvenient with no discernible consequences whatsoever. My issue is that it isn't just a few bad apples, but rather their view on most issues is something I fundamentally disagree with. I suppose this is just the nature of democracy, where there will be a lot of issues that a certain party has which I do not agree with, but it is unfortunate that most voters in other states do not feel the same I do on these issues.

 

[boo836]

For what it is worth, I believe other countries like Japan are like this as well, where there are several different parties such as LDP, CDP, SDP, etc. but the only party to actually win any elections consistently is the LDP . In the US, there are still a fair few other parties such as the Green Party, Peace & Freedom Party, etc, which might not be a majority, but still represent alternative options that could gain greater support in the future.

While there is technically more democracy in the US, my personal issue is that nothing the Republican Party does is what I want lol. Thankfully, most of their agenda doesn't affect my state, California, but with how easy it is for them to plant their seeds of influence to the masses by cherry-picking examples and rhetoric like "both parties are bad" (which is an ideology I have seen embraced by some Communist I know as well), I truly worry how long this will last. It does not exactly help that many Republican governors & politicians are perfectly willing to subvert precedents such as Roe v. Wade & making voting more inconvenient with no discernible consequences whatsoever. My issue is that it isn't just a few bad apples, but rather their view on most issues is something I fundamentally disagree with. I suppose this is just the nature of democracy, where there will be a lot of issues that a certain party has which I do not agree with, but it is unfortunate that most voters in other states do not feel the same I do on these issues.

The difference between Japan and the US is that the LDP acknowledges electoral losses. I do not think party-dominant systems should be compared to the programme of the Republican Party, which is centred around their refusal to accept electoral losses. If we see this change in Japan, it is going to be as an emulation of the Republican Party and related to the phenomenon of its influence on foreign parties (see: India, UK, Canada), rather than a characteristic of Japanese democracy.

also the reason why you see supposed communists taking a line similar to the Republican Party is because those petty Stalinist cults I mentioned earlier (think the Party of Sexual Lawbreakers or the WWP) in the US are holdover assets of the Russian Federation from the days of the Soviet Union. Otherwise known now as the Republicans' most significant international allies. It's literally the sort of unprincipled false neutrality towards RWEs these Twitter revolutionaries pinned on much of the mainstream (some of it correctly) and portrayed themselves as being above. The reality is that they're not above it so long as they feel either they or their sponsors can benefit from it. Peter Thiel and associates buying off pundits like Gray, Domise, and Kulinski only show how far the rot goes in media in the US.


Hell, my friend Alexander Reid Ross ended up having his article published by the SPLC taken down as part of a sustained campaign by the right-wing establishment against the SPLC, starting off with a successful SLAPP in British courts from Maajid Nawaz, followed by a successful SLAPP threat from Max Blumenthal. What a wacky coincidence that both of them went on to become COVID denialists/ conspiracy theorists, in line with other RWEs! Think of all the fucking promotion Grayzone still got after that shit and you'll begin to understand why I'm so fucking disdainful of US leftists.

 

[Medeia]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1540002392237817856

I totally agree with this, the only thing Biden and his party can do now to stop this fascist madness is to pack the court, impeach them. This "just vote" excuse is so bullshit and doesn't fix your far too powerful, illegitimate fascist controlled supreme court at all or way too late to fix all the damage they are going to do and what they have already done. Roe is gone, gun laws are completely nonexistent, prisoner protections removed, Miranda weakened, campaign bribery legalized etc.

What has to happen next until oh so great "liberal" democrats finally realize that something radical, yet more realistic than my "abolish the republican party" proposal has to be done to stop the republicans from destroying the last bit of democracy in your country (even if it means that a new civil war eventually happens)? You're not gonna get out of this with "liberal" measures as usual, just forget about it.
Same sex marriage, legalization of homosexuality and gender recognition act are very likely among the next things on the list of rights which the supreme court's going to abolish, after they gut EPA's ability to tackle climate change or gut the entire administrative state.

The DNC fails your democracy and just show, that they're nothing more but one side of the same coin. Hell, i would also support that buy/general boycott proposal if i lived in USA, anything that could help to pressure this dysfunctional two party political system and big companies like Amazon, Facebook, Tesla, Paypal and people like Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Mark Zuckerberg etc. who openly try to destroy democracy around the world to create a corporate owned dystopian world (especially Peter Thiel couldn't be more open about this). And if you think that's too "MaRxIsT" or "CoMmUnIsT", then you're a part of the problem honestly, same with all the doomers who always cry that "it's already too late".

 

[faint]

the sc is tone-deaf... can't believe they overturned roe during pride month. insane.

 

[shnowshner]

i don't learn my lesson when it comes to politics

Right now my opinion is that abortion should, ideally, be legal in a similar way something like killing another person in self defense is legal, not 1-1 mind you, but I do feel that in the midst of individual rights people tend to forget just how horrific and in many ways dehumanizing abortion is.

In other words keep it legal for when its needed but any means we can find to lower the rate of abortions in the US (and globally as well) would be ideal.

If you've seen any of my few non-Pokemon related posts before you maybe know the angle I come from (filthy centrist + christian i know), to me abortion really comes off as this "lampshade" policy that is championed as a major step forwards for women's rights, among other things, and in a strict sense that is right. Abortion being illegal is bad because you're going to run into those ugly edge cases whose morality is so gray that coming to any sort of conclusion on the proper course to follow is difficult, to say nothing of the people who are actually involved in said situation and not just spectating it. Should a person be able to terminate their own child if their life is at risk? I mean, who I am to say for someone else?

Pragmatically any sort of restriction on abortion is simply making things harder for people in those life-or-death scenarios above, and the disfranchised, without really changing anyone's opinions on the matter. Make it illegal and now people who can find ways to get an abortion illegally will do it that way if they are so inclined to get one. You've accomplished nothing. Making it a state decision just complicates things instead of solving any actual issue. If you dislike abortion, well there's going to be states that allow it, and I've already seen headlines about people planning on leaving their communities to live in places that have laws which are favorable to them.

Keep in mind I interact with right-leaning and/or Christian people on the daily both because of where I live and work, and the things I value as a person; this does not mean I agree with them on many things, far from it honestly! The current state of Christianity is dire in my opinion and us having sided so closely with the Republican Party is bringing us nothing but trouble. Abortion is a massive issue for a religious group that values life as much as we do, but once again Christians have lost sight of what's actually important in favor of what's more sensational and, in a sense, easier. Abortion is bad and we don't like it, but a ban doesn't do anything to change the minds of people. In my eyes abortion is often times the solution to the effect of a problem, which is an unwanted pregnancy. Why isn't more focus being put on what causes people to have an unwanted pregnancy? Listen to their stories for a bit! People aren't getting pregnant because the right to abortion is important to them.

My views on this matter are similar to how I feel about homosexuality and anything LGBTQ+. Laws do nothing. Any sort of restrictions do nothing but make life worse for people who have it no better than most of us do. Too often it seems that any sort of movement against LGBTQ+ rights is a "victory" for Christianity, as if making life more difficult and perhaps even dangerous for a diverse community of people that already struggle with countless things we both do and don't understand is somehow fucking good for them. Our biggest failure as a religious institution is cozying up to the biblical concept of mankind's rebellion against God, and using it as an excuse for our ignorantly hateful behavior. There's conflict of values between believers and nonbelievers, don't get me wrong, but there's also this thing called being respectful and humble towards those who you disagree with. Guess which one we've lost sight of. I know there'll always be people out for us because of our religion, but Christians have actively antagonized themselves against much of the world, and it genuinely baffles me how apathetic we've become towards both the lives of those who don't conform to our beliefs, and the legitimately evil actions of those on the side we've allied ourselves with. Thinking what you're doing is right because the world hates you either means the world is evil, or you are. We can't decide the one half is true without reflecting on our own actions.

In short, abortion is bad, this court decision is bad, the United States is a disaster of a society, and if anyone actually cares about the lives of the unborn, they should consider caring about the lives of people and what's happening to them that would lead to such a decision.

 

[Magcargo]

i don't learn my lesson when it comes to politics

Right now my opinion is that abortion should, ideally, be legal in a similar way something like killing another person in self defense is legal, not 1-1 mind you, but I do feel that in the midst of individual rights people tend to forget just how horrific and in many ways dehumanizing abortion is.

In other words keep it legal for when its needed but any means we can find to lower the rate of abortions in the US (and globally as well) would be ideal.

If you've seen any of my few non-Pokemon related posts before you maybe know the angle I come from (filthy centrist + christian i know), to me abortion really comes off as this "lampshade" policy that is championed as a major step forwards for women's rights, among other things, and in a strict sense that is right. Abortion being illegal is bad because you're going to run into those ugly edge cases whose morality is so gray that coming to any sort of conclusion on the proper course to follow is difficult, to say nothing of the people who are actually involved in said situation and not just spectating it. Should a person be able to terminate their own child if their life is at risk? I mean, who I am to say for someone else?

Pragmatically any sort of restriction on abortion is simply making things harder for people in those life-or-death scenarios above, and the disfranchised, without really changing anyone's opinions on the matter. Make it illegal and now people who can find ways to get an abortion illegally will do it that way if they are so inclined to get one. You've accomplished nothing. Making it a state decision just complicates things instead of solving any actual issue. If you dislike abortion, well there's going to be states that allow it, and I've already seen headlines about people planning on leaving their communities to live in places that have laws which are favorable to them.

Keep in mind I interact with right-leaning and/or Christian people on the daily both because of where I live and work, and the things I value as a person; this does not mean I agree with them on many things, far from it honestly! The current state of Christianity is dire in my opinion and us having sided so closely with the Republican Party is bringing us nothing but trouble. Abortion is a massive issue for a religious group that values life as much as we do, but once again Christians have lost sight of what's actually important in favor of what's more sensational and, in a sense, easier. Abortion is bad and we don't like it, but a ban doesn't do anything to change the minds of people. In my eyes abortion is often times the solution to the effect of a problem, which is an unwanted pregnancy. Why isn't more focus being put on what causes people to have an unwanted pregnancy? Listen to their stories for a bit! People aren't getting pregnant because the right to abortion is important to them.

My views on this matter are similar to how I feel about homosexuality and anything LGBTQ+. Laws do nothing. Any sort of restrictions do nothing but make life worse for people who have it no better than most of us do. Too often it seems that any sort of movement against LGBTQ+ rights is a "victory" for Christianity, as if making life more difficult and perhaps even dangerous for a diverse community of people that already struggle with countless things we both do and don't understand is somehow fucking good for them. Our biggest failure as a religious institution is cozying up to the biblical concept of mankind's rebellion against God, and using it as an excuse for our ignorantly hateful behavior. There's conflict of values between believers and nonbelievers, don't get me wrong, but there's also this thing called being respectful and humble towards those who you disagree with. Guess which one we've lost sight of. I know there'll always be people out for us because of our religion, but Christians have actively antagonized themselves against much of the world, and it genuinely baffles me how apathetic we've become towards both the lives of those who don't conform to our beliefs, and the legitimately evil actions of those on the side we've allied ourselves with. Thinking what you're doing is right because the world hates you either means the world is evil, or you are. We can't decide the one half is true without reflecting on our own actions.

In short, abortion is bad, this court decision is bad, the United States is a disaster of a society, and if anyone actually cares about the lives of the unborn, they should consider caring about the lives of people and what's happening to them that would lead to such a decision.

Why should there be any restrictions to abortion? I am aware that in Europe, it is (broadly speaking) legal for the first trimester and anything beyond that requires socioeconomic reasons or authorization to be legal. However, I don't understand why this should be the standard over fully unrestricted access, when the former is adding a barrier that seems like it makes abortion more difficult for people to access.

I think there might be something I am not understanding. I would appreciate it if someone from Europe could explain its system better and whether it is better than fully unrestricted access or not.

As for this decision, it is a dark day for the US. McConnell is also saying that a federal ban could be on the table as well, so it seems like it will only get worse from here.

 

[bugzinator]

Why should there be any restrictions to abortion? I am aware that in Europe, it is (broadly speaking) legal for the first trimester and anything beyond that requires socioeconomic reasons or authorization to be legal. However, I don't understand why this should be the standard over fully unrestricted access, when the former is adding a barrier that seems like it makes abortion more difficult for people to access.

I think there might be something I am not understanding. I would appreciate it if someone from Europe could explain its system better and whether it is better than fully unrestricted access or not.

As for this decision, it is a dark day for the US. McConnell is also saying that a federal ban could be on the table as well, so it seems like it will only get worse from here.

i'm guessing those laws are common because it's safer to do it earlier in the pregnancy

 

[shnowshner]

Why should there be any restrictions to abortion? I am aware that in Europe, it is (broadly speaking) legal for the first trimester and anything beyond that requires socioeconomic reasons or authorization to be legal. However, I don't understand why this should be the standard over fully unrestricted access, when the former is adding a barrier that seems like it makes abortion more difficult for people to access.

I think there might be something I am not understanding. I would appreciate it if someone from Europe could explain its system better and whether it is better than fully unrestricted access or not.

As for this decision, it is a dark day for the US. McConnell is also saying that a federal ban could be on the table as well, so it seems like it will only get worse from here.

Think you read me wrong, I didn't advocate for any sort of restrictions on abortion. I don't like abortion, yes, but don't see what people hope to accomplish with severe restrictions when its such a personal and, frankly, hard to control decision. Basically if you don't like abortion and don't want the rate of abortion to be so high, doing so legislatively isn't fixing anything. You have to appeal to people's conscious if you want change, or, even better, try and fix the issues that can lead to unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

Sorry if what I said is confusing, I get heated about stuff like this and deviate far from what a lot of people on either side tend to think.

 

[MrHands]

I wonder how this will effect 2022 elections.

My guess is that the senate will lean Republican because Americans are culturally idiots who vote almost exclusively based off gas prices and the economy by blaming the current party regardless of the actual reasoning for the status quo. Democrats (in particular, young ones) historically don't fucking go vote so time and time again Republicans "do better than expected". Don't worry, most people don't even know what a filibuster is so they see a blue president and congress and just assume it's party failings, then vote red or write in "deez nutz" because they're paying a dollar more for gas and think the Afghan army laying down their arms is somehow "Brandon's" fault. I don't think it's about the Dems not doing enough, I think it's all about stupid ignorant Americans not giving the right side enough power to make a difference.

Or maybe a combination of Republican anti-vaxxer COVID deaths, increasingly extremist yet divided GOP, and a united left (come on man Hillary wasn't that bad) could Hold the Line in 2022, and a divided Republican party could lead to a blue victory in 2024. Maybe two Supreme Court justices will die or quit in the next few years giving the left a chance to stack the dice.

But since the Democrats are unlikely to get a filibuster-proof majority in the next decade, and Republicans are strangling voters at a state level via jerrymandering it's unlikely that we'll see legislation pass at a federal level. On the bright side this works both ways so in terms of state rights at the very least we have California, New England, Hawaii etc. Have you visited Maine recently? We love abortion, gays, and lobster. There's still hope brothers. Also you know, there's Canada.

I have been drinking heavily today. I hate this stupid fucking country.

Or in Smogon terms I let my Shuckle hold an Everclear Berry and holy shit it made some good 95% berry juice.

 

[Medeia]

I wonder how this will effect 2022 elections.

My guess is that the senate will lean Republican because Americans are culturally idiots who vote almost exclusively based off gas prices and the economy by blaming the current party regardless of the actual reasoning for the status quo. Democrats (in particular, young ones) historically don't fucking go vote so time and time again Republicans "do better than expected". Don't worry, most people don't even know what a filibuster is so they see a blue president and congress and just assume it's party failings, then vote red or write in "deez nutz" because they're paying a dollar more for gas and think the Afghan army laying down their arms is somehow "Brandon's" fault. I don't think it's about the Dems not doing enough, I think it's all about stupid ignorant Americans not giving the right side enough power to make a difference.

Or maybe a combination of Republican anti-vaxxer COVID deaths, increasingly extremist yet divided GOP, and a united left (come on man Hillary wasn't that bad) could Hold the Line in 2022, and a divided Republican party could lead to a blue victory in 2024. Maybe two Supreme Court justices will die or quit in the next few years giving the left a chance to stack the dice.

But since the Democrats are unlikely to get a filibuster-proof majority in the next decade, and Republicans are strangling voters at a state level via jerrymandering it's unlikely that we'll see legislation pass at a federal level. On the bright side this works both ways so in terms of state rights at the very least we have California, New England, Hawaii etc. Have you visited Maine recently? We love abortion, gays, and lobster. There's still hope brothers. Also you know, there's Canada.

I have been drinking heavily today. I hate this stupid fucking country.

Or in Smogon terms I let my Shuckle hold an Everclear Berry and holy shit it made some good 95% berry juice.

Forget about a united left, a sizable chunk of leftists in USA are either anarchists who want any kind of state abolished in the first place or stalinist/maoist cultists. Leftist unity is nothing more but a meme, the differences between "leftist" ideologies are just too big.
Also, even if enough young "progressive" people vote for democrats, chances are that more conservative pro gun and anti-abortion candidates win democrats primaries for senate & congress and get voted into senate to keep the filibuster and do nothing about the overturning of roe v wade. Most younger people just don`t see their vote making a difference and that`s really one of many crisis of US-Democracy.

 

[nimzowitsch]

The recent SCOTUS ruling is certainly very disturbing. I normally try to be apolitical but I can't be silent any longer. If some states decide to outlaw abortions, they will only end up outlawing safe abortions. History has shown that it is nearly impossible to enforce laws that significant proportions of the population disagree with (just look at Prohibition). We have laws against murder, theft, etc. but that is because almost everyone agrees these things should be illegal, which is why, given a competent police force (which is not always the case) these laws can be enforced. This is not so for abortion laws that go into effect once Roe is repealed. Honestly I don't understand why people want to get rid of Roe's trimester framework, which has served us well for so long. If it isn't broken, why fix it? I generally think we should respect stare decisis and I find it distasteful for the Supreme Court to overturn its past precedent without a really good reason.

 

[Fishin]

Why isn't more focus being put on what causes people to have an unwanted pregnancy? Listen to their stories for a bit! People aren't getting pregnant because the right to abortion is important to them.

Ultimately, that's their business. I think it's pretty easy to understand though, pregnancy is potentially unwanted because the pregnancy itself is a very unpleasant process and then you're looking at raising a kid, which is incredibly costly in terms of time, emotional investment, and money. Most people don't want a kid (and indeed, probably shouldn't have a kid) unless they can give them a good environment to grow up in and that's not always easy.

 

[shnowshner]

Ultimately, that's their business. I think it's pretty easy to understand though, pregnancy is potentially unwanted because the pregnancy itself is a very unpleasant process and then you're looking at raising a kid, which is incredibly costly in terms of time, emotional investment, and money. Most people don't want a kid (and indeed, probably shouldn't have a kid) unless they can give them a good environment to grow up in and that's not always easy.

meant to respond to this earlier but was having trouble gathering thoughts cohesively between working

What I was saying there was I feel too much attention is given to abortion as an action or concept and not the whole "people are getting pregnant when they don't want to" aspect of the situation. There's a lot of reasons why the latter happens, some way more pertinent (and disturbing) than others. Ultimately I think it's a more constructive and I guess responsible? way of approaching the issue. Bans on abortion aren't going to magically make people accept an unwanted child.

I guess in summary, if a high rate of abortion is more concerning to someone than a high rate of people having unwanted pregnancies, they've got their priorities wrong. Artificially lowering the abortion rate by forcing people to make decisions they don't want is a recipe for disaster IMO